Friday, March 15, 2013 (Open Session)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Rodney (Zacharie)
(Elias’ arrival time is 10 seconds.)
ELIAS: Good morning!
RODNEY: Good morning to you! (Both laugh) We’re so delighted!
ELIAS: And what shall we discuss?
RODNEY: Please, we have many people eager, eager, eager to hear about The Religious Wave.
RODNEY: And many questions, and was hoping that you would give us...I hope to process audio within the day.
ELIAS: Very well.
RODNEY: So there’s many people eager to hear what you have to say about this.
ELIAS: Very well.
RODNEY: So with that, I’ll sit back and listen.
ELIAS: Very well. The new wave...
RODNEY: The new wave.
ELIAS: ...addressing to the belief system of the religious.
Now; as you are already aware, there are some factors that include religion, but that is not the main subject in relation to this Religious Wave. It is addressing to religious beliefs which are very encompassing that have little to do with religion.
ELIAS: But I would express that your choice in generating this new wave was, and is, quite creative.
RODNEY: May I intercept because you just mentioned the difference between religion and religious beliefs?
RODNEY: You are going to explain...
RODNEY: ...the difference between those?
RODNEY: Okay, great. Thank you.
ELIAS: And I would express that your choice to usher in this Religious Wave with your most prominent religious leader (Rodney laughs) was exceptionally creative.
RODNEY: Yes. (Laughs)
ELIAS: (Laughs) Excellent choice. (Both chuckle) And quite poignant, I would express also in emphasizing a change—a change from the familiar, and in your terms, the old, into ushering in a new age.
RODNEY: And in particular, I’ve read that in 1790, some Irish cardinal or priest, or whatever, predicted that this pope would be the last pope.
ELIAS: That remains to be seen.
RODNEY: And it’s been argued and debated, for what, two- or three-hundred years, which also puts a shadow or a probability on...
ELIAS: The capacity is definitely shifting. The capacity of the pope—the position of the pope and what that position represents—is most definitely shifting. It remains to be seen what you will choose futurely in relation to choosing another one or continuing in that direction, but it is significant now that the choices that are being generated now are being generated.
Now; let us begin at the beginning. This wave is being facilitated by the Ilda family. This is significant for religious beliefs are all-encompassing. They are not (pause) limited to any particular religion, or even all of them, and the Ilda family are designated as interactive in relation to cultures, different peoples. This is the reason that this family incorporates the quality of travel. That is not a main quality. That is one of the qualities that most individuals focus upon, but it is not one of the main qualities of this particular family.
This particular family involves itself with peoples, cultures, differences, and samenesses, and mixing and combining different expressions, different cultures, different ideals, different philosophies. They are, very simply, mixers. They combine. They are excellent combiners of different types of expressions. This is also the reason that magicians or sorcerers or jesters and dancers and theater—players, are likely to be affiliated with this particular family.
Now; therefore, those individuals belonging to or aligning with this essence family of Ilda, as has been with other waves and other families, they will be instrumental. These individuals that are belonging to or aligning with this family of Ilda will be instrumental in relation to their own experiences, but also in relation to generating bridges with other individuals. In this, I will express orientation is not a factor, for the most part, in relation to the interactions or the affectingness.
RODNEY: It isn’t?
ELIAS: There may be differences in how different orientations experience this wave, but in relation to the objective of this wave, no, the orientations would not be a factor.
RODNEY: Will the Ilda be affected more so than the other families?
ELIAS: Affected only in the capacity of being spearheads, so to speak, or bridgers. In being helpful with other individuals in their experiences...
RODNEY: So it would be a positive experience for the Ilda?
ELIAS: For the most part, yes. I would express, as with any wave, it is dependent upon the individual whether you generate it to be a positive or a negative experience.
RODNEY: So it will be energized for that family more.
ELIAS: Very much so.
ELIAS: Very much so.
Now; in this, I would also express that this wave is primarily addressing to attention. How you direct your attention, what you pay attention to, and how that affects and influences your perception and, therefore, your reality. Therefore, the most important factor of this wave is attention, addressing to that. How that applies to the religious belief system, in a manner of speaking, is quite obvious, for what you pay attention to shapes what you create. It also affects feelings and thinking. Therefore, it is very important.
RODNEY: You say that attention affects our religious beliefs? I’m not sure...
ELIAS: No, it is obvious that attention would be the primary factor of this wave...
ELIAS: ...for, in relation to religious beliefs, it is a matter of what and how you pay attention to them in relation to how they affect you...
ELIAS: ...and how they affect your reality.
Now; religious beliefs encompass philosophies, ideals, ideas in relation to value, in relation to worth. They are very affecting in relation to individuality or group or mass expression.
RODNEY: How about morality?
RODNEY: Okay. That’s included?
ELIAS: Morality, ethics...
ELIAS: ...but not necessarily right or wrong. That would be duplicity.
ELIAS: Not necessarily right or wrong or good or bad, but yes, differences in ethics and morality, not how you judge them, but the expressions of them.
RODNEY: And how they influence your perception.
ELIAS: Very much so. Very much so.
RODNEY: So this wave will have a lot to say about the polarities that we see in the mass culture?
ELIAS: Very much so also.
RODNEY: Like the liberals and the conservatives?
RODNEY: And things of that nature?
ELIAS: Yes. For it addresses to attention which defines importance. Therefore, simply put, this wave is addressing to importance in general, in every expression, in every aspect.
RODNEY: And significance and importance in any and every aspect?
RODNEY: For it influences...
ELIAS: For it is addressing to attention, and what you pay attention to becomes important or you would not pay attention to it. Therefore, attention and importance are very closely and strongly tied together, and in that, the subject of importance is very significant, for this is what motivates you individually and en masse, but not always in directions that you want or that you like. For, importance is not always expressed in what you think of as positive.
ELIAS: You pay attention to many subjects and many directions that become important that are uncomfortable or that you dislike. You create them to be important. This is the challenging aspect in relation to what you pay attention to, for you do not always notice how strongly you pay attention in certain directions that are uncomfortable and that create importance in subjects that you do not want.
Now; in our previous group interaction, we discussed feelings...
ELIAS: ...considerably. This another significant aspect of this wave, not feelings themselves, but how you pay attention to them.
Now; in this, let me remind you, feelings are signals. They are not designed to be ongoing. As an aside, when individuals express the response to the question, “What do you want?” and they express, “I want to be happy,” this is an incorrect statement. Happy is a feeling. It is a signal. It is not a state of being. Signals are not designed to be states of being. They are not designed to be ongoing. Therefore, the idea of being continuously happy is not only unrealistic, but it is unnatural, for it is a feeling.
RODNEY: Would you say the same thing about the feeling of being satisfied—satisfaction?
ELIAS: No. Satisfaction is a state of being. There is a feeling that accompanies that, but it is momentary. Being satisfied, being content are states of being. They are not feelings.
RODNEY: So the state of being happy, that really does not exist because...
RODNEY: ...it’s not a state of being...
RODNEY: ...it’s a feeling.
RODNEY: Is there any other...
ELIAS: Contentment is a state of being, and when you are content, you generate more moments of feeling happy...
ELIAS: ...to validate that state of contentment.
RODNEY: You’d say the same thing about bliss then, wouldn’t you? Bliss is a state of feeling.
RODNEY: No? That’s a state of...
ELIAS: Bliss is a state of being.
RODNEY: Okay, there’s nothing other than...
ELIAS: Joy is a feeling.
RODNEY: Joy is a feeling?
RODNEY: Okay, I’ve just...
ELIAS: Joy would be a feeling that would be expressed more frequently if you are occupying that state of being of bliss.
ELIAS: Now; the reason that I am expressing this and including this information in relation to feelings and clarifying that they are not designed to be ongoing also very strongly relates to attention.
Now; one factor in relation to feelings, in the design of feelings—feelings have been designed to be attractive. It matters not whether they are good feelings or bad feelings. They are all attractive, and this is very purposeful, for you have designed signals to gain your attention.
RODNEY: So would you say attractive? Because a feeling is almost a bodily sensation. The body is doing something.
RODNEY: It’s what the body is doing that’s attractive. I mean, sadness is a feeling, isn’t it?
ELIAS: Yes it is.
RODNEY: ...is a feeling?
RODNEY: Okay, so these are attractive...
ELIAS: They are attractive.
RODNEY: ...because the body is involved.
RODNEY: So it’s what the body is doing that is attractive?
RODNEY: Not our perception of whether or not that feeling is good or bad.
RODNEY: Okay. Thank you.
ELIAS: Precisely. It matters not whether you incorporate the perception that the feeling is good or bad. All feelings are attractive.
RODNEY: Because we like, we like...
ELIAS: The sensation...
RODNEY: ...what’s happening in the body—the sensation.
ELIAS: In this...
RODNEY: Which is physical.
RODNEY: On at least one level.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
Now; in this, this is the reason that if an individual is agitated, or sad, or anxious, or angry, or frustrated, or irritated, or depressed that they continue to pay attention to that, and that they perpetuate that feeling, for it is attractive, regardless that they do not like it, regardless that they label it as bad, regardless that it is uncomfortable, it is nonetheless attractive, and therefore, the individual continues to pay attention to it—very similar to physical feelings which are also signals. If an individual is experiencing pain, that physical feeling is attractive; it is designed to be attractive, that you will pay attention to it, but the point is that it is designed to be a signal, therefore, it is only necessary for you to pay attention to it to recognize that there is a message.
Let me express to you in this manner, in this present time framework, most of you occupy areas in which you incorporate streets.
ELIAS: And most of you drive vehicles.
ELIAS: And driving vehicles upon streets, you have incorporated a system to organize how you drive upon streets and you incorporate streetlights—red, yellow, green.
ELIAS: You are all familiar with red, yellow, green. You know what they mean. When you see green, you know what to do. When you see red, you know what to do. When you see yellow, you question whether you can go or whether you should stop. Therefore, that is the gray.
Feelings are very similar. They are designed to gain your attention and organize you in what you pay attention to. Most feelings are familiar to you. You know what they are. You feel them. You can identify what that feeling is. Most individuals are aware. Some individuals may question feelings more than others, and some may misinterpret them more than others, but generally speaking, you incorporate a basic idea or identification of most feelings and what they mean.
RODNEY: That doesn’t mean that they’re asking for the message though, or are they?
ELIAS: There’s always a statement that accompanies feelings, whether they are physical or emotional.
RODNEY: But you use the term most people are familiar with the...
ELIAS: With the signal.
RODNEY: And what it means.
ELIAS: What it means in how they define that—this is sad, this is happy, this is anxious, this is frustrated—not necessarily what the message is.
RODNEY: That’s the distinction. Okay.
ELIAS: Most individuals can identify what the actual feeling is.
ELIAS: They can define the actual feeling, in most situations.
ELIAS: This is not to say that most individuals pay attention to all of their feelings as we discussed in our previous group interaction. But you do incorporate a basic knowledge of feelings and defining them, not necessarily the message, but the feeling—the signal.
In this, you know the signal. It is not significant. It is not important to continue to pay attention to it. You already know what it is. It is important to pay attention when the signal arises, to acknowledge that, but it is also important not to dwell upon it, not to continue to perpetuate it, for that moves your attention to the signal, to the feeling, and not the message.
RODNEY: I see a trap here, and the trap is that if you’re not looking to see what the message is, then that feeling is going to repeat again, and again,...
ELIAS: Yes, and it will.
RODNEY: ...and again, and that means that we’re going to be paying attention to it again, and again, and again.
RODNEY: Okay, so this...
ELIAS: And it creates a circle.
RODNEY: That’s a circle, so this is a trap.
Now; the other factor involved in this trap, so to speak, is your thinking, for the more you pay attention to the feelings, the more you think about the feelings. And the more you think about them, the more you feel them, which creates a circle inside of a circle.
ELIAS: And you continue to feel, and those feelings that you are continuing to feel are no longer the signal. You already generated the signal. Now you are generating feelings that are being created by your thinking. You are paying attention to the feeling, you think about what the feeling is, which perpetuates feeling, and you think about the feeling more, and the thinking begins to create the feeling.
RODNEY: And let me point out that happiness is, what did you say?
ELIAS: It is a feeling.
RODNEY: It’s a feeling. And my experience of happiness and my sense that other people’s feelings of happiness is...that when they’re feeling happy, they just do what they want to do. It’s like...
RODNEY: It’s not so much that they pay attention to it?
ELIAS: No. Feeling happy is a signal that is directly associated with an action, whether it be an inner action or an outer action. When you feel happy, it is directly associated with an action that has occurred. When you are generating the state of being of contentment, yes, what you are expressing would be more correct, that you would allow yourself more freedom to engage what actions you want to engage, for you are experiencing that comfort of being content, which takes away concern. It eliminates concern.
RODNEY: And in the state with a feeling of happiness...
ELIAS: Happiness is that validation feeling. Therefore, while you are occupying a state of contentment, and you are generating actions that you want to do, and you are comfortable, it allows you to engage actions either from yourself or involve yourself in actions that are outside sources that trigger the feeling of being happy. But happy is a feeling that is a direct expression, a direct signal, of an action. It is a validating signal.
Now; you can begin to recognize how important attention becomes. If you are frustrated in any capacity, generally when you are frustrated, the reason you are frustrated is that you perceive that there is some problem that you are unable to solve, and this creates frustration, and you continue to attempt to solve the problem.
Now; with that simple scenario, using frustration as an example, that is the signal—the feeling.
ELIAS: The message, or the statement is: you are generating an action, you are focusing in a direction that is not offering you an answer. Therefore, you feel frustrated.
Now; that feeling of frustration is designed to be momentary, to do its job, so to speak, and be a signal—signal you.
RODNEY: Stop, look in a different direction.
ELIAS: As simply as your red light—stop.
ELIAS: In this, rather than recognizing it quickly as a signal, what you will generally do is you will pay attention to the feeling of being frustrated, and you will begin thinking about how frustrated you are. Now you are involving your thinking. Thinking, very easily, as we have discussed many, many times moves in the direction of repeat.
RODNEY: On my personal level, I continue to think of it as a problem, and therefore, my attention is focused on the problem. Okay.
ELIAS: Which is also focused upon the feeling.
RODNEY: Right. Well, it’s almost...they’re almost...
RODNEY: It’s a synonym...
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
RODNEY: So what I get is more problem.
ELIAS: For you continue to focus your attention upon the thinking which perpetuates the feeling. And the more you feel it, the more you think it. Thinking is notorious for repeat.
RODNEY: I should know that. (Laughs)
ELIAS: What is the function of thinking? The function of thinking is to translate information. If it has no new information, it translates repeat information. Therefore, it is notorious for repeat. For once you fix your attention upon a subject, you continue to pay attention to it, and what does that offer your thinking? No new information. Therefore, your thinking repeats and repeats and repeats.
RODNEY: It’s a trap.
Now; let me express to you a very simple formula that will be very important in this wave in relation to attention. You are consciousness. The nature of consciousness is expansion. What is expansion? Expansion is more. Your nature, your very nature is to create more, and you do it in every moment, in every day of your existence whether you are aware of it or not. You are continuously creating more.
Therefore, your attention is very important, for your attention is the single most influencing factor in relation to what you create more of. For your attention is the single most influencing factor in relation to your perception.
RODNEY: Do I hear you say...okay, the action of consciousness is to expand, to acquire more?
ELIAS: To be more.
RODNEY: To be more. So if I’m getting more of attention...let’s suppose my attention is focused on this frustration, on the problem.
ELIAS: You will create more frustration.
RODNEY: And that is a natural action of consciousness?
RODNEY: It’s natural?
ELIAS: Yes. You will always create more.
RODNEY: And that is a natural...it’s where consciousness normally goes?
RODNEY: So this implies to me that our challenge...
ELIAS: Is the simple choice, what do you want to create more of?
RODNEY: So we have to affect our own consciousness?
ELIAS: You are already creating more in every moment. It is merely a matter of what you pay attention to, therefore, how you direct what you create more of.
RODNEY: Thank you.
ELIAS: If you are paying attention to how satisfied you are, and how content you are, and how comfortable you are, you will create more of that. If you are paying attention to what you do not have, you will create more lack.
RODNEY: Now; I can hear...I can hear the chorus.
RODNEY: There are members of the chorus who are going to say, yeah, but we’ve heard this; we know that. We’ve heard this before.
ELIAS: Ah, do you?
RODNEY: This is not a new concept.
ELIAS: Ah, do you?
ELIAS: And you continue to do it!
RODNEY: This is what the chorus is singing. So...
ELIAS: I would express...
RODNEY: What’s different in the...
ELIAS: ...very simply,...
RODNEY: What’s different here?
ELIAS: ...if this is information that you already know, that you already apply, then I would express that I would offer my congratulations to each and every one of you that you are all creating precisely what you want in every moment and are not frustrated ever and are entirely content and satisfied with your lives as they are.
RODNEY: Is this just a teensy-weensy bit of sarcasm there?
ELIAS: Quite a lot.
ELIAS: For I am well aware that there are very few individuals that are actually actively content and satisfied with what they are creating within their life.
ELIAS: And I would express to you, this is not to say that you will never create challenges, for that creates motivation, and it spurs you to create more. That is also very natural. I am not expressing that you will never be creating what appears to be situations that you do not want—appears to be. Once again, a matter of attention, what you are paying attention to.
I would express to you, very realistically, most individuals in general, not merely the individuals participating in this forum, most individuals are creating what they want, and they are not paying attention to it. And therefore, they think they are not, and they are dissatisfied and frustrated and anxious and are desperately attempting to discover other choices to change their reality in which they are, in many capacities, already creating what they want, but they do not see it, for they are not paying attention. And what are they not paying attention to? They are not paying attention to their intentions.
We have discussed intention many, many, many times—setting an intention—not focusing upon outcome, focusing on the process, and what does that mean? Drawing to you your attention. What do any of these statements mean? How do you actually practice them?
An intention is a direction that you want or an action that you want. You want to move in a particular direction, and you set an intention. That may involve physical manifestations, and generally speaking, it usually does.
Now; in that, I have expressed, once the intention is set, it is already done. Therefore, it is counterproductive to be focusing upon the outcome. That is already done. What is important is to focus upon the process.
Now; what does that mean? Most individuals will define that as generating actions that are, in some capacity, associated with their intention. I want a new job, and I want these particulars with this new job. Therefore, they express to themselves, “Stop concentrating upon the outcome and process how to generate that direction—focus upon the process.” And what they will do is, they will engage many different directions to acquire a new job. That is not the process. The process is paying attention to what you are doing in every action that you engage within your day, and whether that is in harmony with what that intention is. That is how you know whether you are actually generating what you want and what the intention is, or whether you are not. If what you are doing in every other action is in harmony with your intention, you move directly towards its creatment.
RODNEY: That’s the process?
ELIAS: Yes. That is the process. Therefore, I want a new job...
RODNEY: So reading the Want Ads for employment or making out a résumé, and all of that good stuff, that’s not the process.
ELIAS: That is focusing upon the outcome.
RODNEY: I understand now. Thank you. It’s just defined what you...
ELIAS: What you are doing within the day in, let us say you engage going to dinner with a friend, and you are dissatisfied with the meal, and you return it to the kitchen, and you express your dissatisfaction to the waiter, and you are uncomfortable and frustrated within your dinner situation, to which you are not very pleasant company for your friend, and you are not pleasant company for yourself either.
Now; how does this associate with “I want a new job”? You are already obviously dissatisfied with the present job or you would not want a new job. Are you moving in a direction in which you are creating situations and actions of satisfaction to move in harmony with that intention, or are you dissatisfied with your meal and creating that type of energy? It does relate; it is the energy that is the same and that is directing you and is moving you in the direction that you want. You will eventually create some form of that intention. It is a matter of whether you create precisely that intention, and in what you would term to be a reasonable or a short time framework, or whether you choose to enter into the maze—the labyrinth—in which you are twisting and turning and moving in this direction and that direction before you approach your intention, for you are moving your energy in other directions that are not in harmony with your intention. And you will know, very simply and very easily, in relation to what you are paying attention to, for your feelings will signal you. You will be feeling frustrated or agitated or annoyed. You will be uncomfortable. Those feelings are signaling you. You are not in harmony with your intention. You are not moving in that direction. This is the reason that you are frustrated, for you are distressed, for you are not doing what you want to be doing, and your body is signaling you: “No, no, no, you are not doing what you want to be doing.” You will know, but how do you pay attention to that? You already do not see that you are creating what you want. Therefore, when you generate feelings that are distressing or frustrating, you use them to justify that you are not doing what you want, you do not have what you want, and you reinforce that, and that sets you in the direction of the labyrinth.
RODNEY: That nasty word: justification. It’s like I am an enemy of myself.
ELIAS: Attention is of ultimate importance and in relation to attention, as I expressed, what moves hand-in-hand with it is importance. These are key, very much key. For it is a matter of not only what you are paying attention to, but asking yourself what is important, and why?
RODNEY: And why? In other words, by “why?” you mean, what’s the purpose?
RODNEY: What’s the meaning?
ELIAS: Yes. And how does it individually, personally affect you? Looking at what you think of as important, how does it benefit you? If it does not benefit you, it is not important.
RODNEY: So it’s evaluating.
ELIAS: Yes, which is quite expansive, for individuals incorporate considerable opinions that they place importance upon in relation to what I expressed previously—ideas, ideals, philosophies—that they place importance upon. Are they important? How do they personally benefit you? If they do not, they are not important.
RODNEY: Wow, this takes me back to the polarization thing where people think, like conservatism, not spending more money than you have in your pocket; that’s an ideal.
RODNEY: That’s a philosophy.
ELIAS: Attachments move in this also.
RODNEY: Okay. Mary suggested that Michael...that we stop to take a break.
ELIAS: Very well.
ELIAS: And continue.
ELIAS: Very well. So we shall.
RODNEY: Thank you so much.
ELIAS: You are very welcome. We shall continue momentarily.
RODNEY: See you soon.
(Elias departs after 58 minutes, 37 seconds.)
RODNEY: May I interrupt a second?
ELIAS: You may.
RODNEY: Because I’m trying to sum up in my own mind some of the things you said, and in the beginning, you pointed out that The Religious Wave encompasses not just religion, but our philosophies, our ethics, our moralities, and all of those...
ELIAS: Even governments.
RODNEY: Governments. And it occurred to me, if I say I’m a devout Christian, that’s an attachment.
RODNEY: That’s who I am.
ELIAS: No. It is an attachment.
RODNEY: But it’s an attachment...but it’s my perception of who I am.
RODNEY: All right. And it’s not my genuine self.
RODNEY: It’s an attachment, and I pay attention to what I think is important, and it’s important to me that I’m a good Christian. So therefore, I’m paying attention to the attachment, which makes it stronger, stronger, stronger.
RODNEY: And that’s what this is all about.
Now; when I heard that The Religious Wave...what I, and, I think, some other people felt is that this is all about authority, and you haven’t used that word. However, I think the word is embedded in here...
ELIAS: There is an aspect of that...
RODNEY: An aspect. In that, the stronger that attachment comes, the more authority it has over me.
RODNEY: Am I going in the right direction?
ELIAS: Yes, it also is involving suggestion. I have expressed, in your terms, for many years, that you are all very suggestible.
RODNEY: Yes, I understand.
ELIAS: Which is not, necessarily, what you would define as bad, but it is a factor.
Now; in relation to suggestibility and how that is affecting in relation to what you pay attention to and authorities, or the idea of authority in any capacity, suggestion is begun or initiated by one individual. One individual generates a concept and shares that concept. Other individuals agree with that suggestion, and it becomes accepted.
Now; as I expressed, this is not, necessarily, intrinsically or automatically bad. The important aspect is returning to the individual and how does it benefit you? Is it a benefit to you individually, personally? Two examples. A suggestion can be generated by one individual, and other individuals agree with that suggestion, and therefore, it is reinforced and perpetuated and accepted. It grows and begins to incorporate form en masse. Masses of individuals accept the suggestion.
Now; when the factor of how it benefits the individual is ignored, is not paid attention to, that allows that suggestion to be turned, and it allows the opening of control. And this is the method that occurs in which the suggestion is accepted en masse, but turns, and, in your terms, becomes a negative in which the individual is not primary. The individual is not important, and control becomes the main objective and focus, which, generally also, opens a door for fear, for fear is the most effective expression in relation to control.
Now; you can recall and imagine many, many, many scenarios in your history in which that direction has occurred in relation to a suggestion—one suggestion offered by one individual.
RODNEY: May I interrupt?
ELIAS: You may.
RODNEY: In the beginning, with that one suggestion, it’s beneficial for the man who made the suggestion?
ELIAS: It may be.
RODNEY: But suppose that it is, and he tells it to...he suggests it to a few others, and they see that it’s beneficial to them also, so that as more and more people become in this, or accept the suggestion, that eventually it becomes a mass concept—a concept within the mass mind—and in that process, the individual loses sight of, “How does this benefit me?” Could you say a little bit more about that...just that simple transition which is based solely on the number of individuals involved?
ELIAS: Yes, that will be emphasized in the next example.
RODNEY: Oh, okay. Thank you.
ELIAS: An example in which that suggestion, that one suggestion from one individual, moves into a mass expression, but does not turn, and does not move in the direction of control or fear. The suggestion that one individual has discovered a vaccine, or invented a vaccine for a dis-ease, such as polio, the one individual expresses their suggestion that their discovery, or their invention, has created this manifestation that will prevent this dis-ease. That suggestion is shared. It grows. It is accepted, and it spreads, so to speak; it ripples, and more, and more, and more individuals accept it, and it becomes a mass expression.
Now; in this, the factor of the benefit to the individual...
RODNEY: Is clear.
ELIAS: ...is not lost. It remains important in an individual expression. It is not merely accepted as a mass expression, as a concept, but it remains a benefit individually, and it remains perceived as an individual benefit.
RODNEY: Ah, so the distinction between that example and an example in which it turns into an element of control is the fact that, in the case of control, the benefit begins to be seen as a benefit to the masses.
ELIAS: The benefit to the masses in relation to control is avoidance, for control is expressed through fear.
RODNEY: Okay, but that’s not where I’m going. I’m sorry. An example of a benefit to the individual that as the group grows, that shifts from being a benefit to the individual to being a benefit for who or what? What is the answer to that question?
ELIAS: It is dependent upon the situation and what the subject is—how it turns.
RODNEY: How it turns. Okay, that can vary from one situation to another.
ELIAS: Very much so. It varies when the subject is not actually a benefit to the masses. It is not a benefit to the individuals in the masses, that the individual is no longer important. The individual is no longer primary. That is when the subject turns, when the suggestion turns and moves into fear and control. The individual is not important. When the individual remains important, the suggestion does not turn.
RODNEY: Okay, that’s fine. Good.
ELIAS: In the example of the vaccine, as that remained, the suggestion to benefit individuals and the individual remained primary in importance, it moved to such an empowerment of the individual that the vaccine is actually no longer necessary.
ELIAS: The suggestion is no longer necessary, for the suggestion being focused upon the individual and remaining with the individual being primary is empowering, and therefore, eventually the subject no longer is necessary, for the individuals empower themselves and no longer require the object of the suggestion to empower them. The vaccine in many, many, many areas of your world presently is no longer necessary. Individuals are not creating that dis-ease.
RODNEY: Correct, it’s almost gone, but not quite.
ELIAS: Correct. It is not gone or almost gone because of the vaccine. There are thousands and thousands and thousands and millions of individuals that have never incorporated the vaccine and do not create the dis-ease.
RODNEY: The issue of...let’s look at the issue of religion. Someone made a suggestion that if we get a small group together and meditate, we will improve ourselves; this self-improvement and self-awareness is a benefit.
Now; as that grew, it turned, did it not?
ELIAS: Yes, in many capacities.
RODNEY: Because the turning...what became important was the individual at the head of the group—his power to assemble the group?
ELIAS: Or what becomes important is the idea, rather than the individuals.
RODNEY: Ah, okay, thank you. That’s what I’m looking for. The turning...
ELIAS: And an individual steps into a position to uphold the idea.
RODNEY: So it’s the idea becomes important...
ELIAS: Rather than the individual.
RODNEY: ...rather than the benefit to the individual.
RODNEY: Ah, so that makes a lot of sense to me—the idea versus the benefit.
RODNEY: That’s the turning.
ELIAS: Which would be the basis of most of your governments.
ELIAS: It is not merely religion.
ELIAS: Most of your governments are based in that.
RODNEY: Well, the idea of capitalism...
ELIAS: That the individual is not important, the idea is important.
RODNEY: That’s why that...that’s why they...
ELIAS: And the individuals that place themselves in positions to uphold the idea rather than the individuals.
ELIAS: And how they do that is through control and how they control is through fear, and you respond to the suggestion of fear through avoidance.
RODNEY: You know, when we look at it this broadly, it almost comes to mind, how will this shift ever happen?
ELIAS: Ha, ha, but it is!
ELIAS: It is! And more and more and more each day are becoming aware, and that is the point: self-awareness. And in this, this is the reason that this wave is very instrumental in this shift.
RODNEY: Is this the last wave?
ELIAS: One more.
RODNEY: One more? What follows the Religious Wave?
ELIAS: Only one.
ELIAS: Only one, which would be Science.
RODNEY: Science. That’s what we had...what did we just have? We’ll skip that; I’m not thinking right.
RODNEY: This particular wave incorporates a great deal of what you’ve already said. It brings it together.
ELIAS: Which is the point.
RODNEY: Which is the point.
ELIAS: You have been preparing. It is difficult to be aware of the big picture if you are not even aware of yourselves.
ELIAS: In this, even in mathematics, that you are so very fond of...
ELIAS: ...it would be very challenging for you to move into physics if you were unaware or were not generating the ability to even add or subtract.
RODNEY: Right, couldn’t do it.
ELIAS: You move in steps. I have expressed many times, to many individuals in their processes, that they are skipping shells—skipping steps—and when you do that, you do not understand, and you miss the details that are important. All of these waves have been generating the details that are important for you to move in the direction of genuinely understanding the significance of what you pay attention to.
I would express to you, these are words presently. They will not be merely words soon. You will understand. There are many, many, many situations, and actions, and perceptions, and feelings, and thoughts, that you are unaware of how you are directing your attention. There are so many actions that you engage that are so automatic and so familiar, that you are unaware of what you are paying attention to. You think you are paying attention, and you are not. As I expressed to you previously in this conversation, there are so very many individuals that are already creating what they want. They are already engaging their intentions, and they do not see it. They are unaware that they already are doing what they want to be doing, and they discount it; they do not see it, and they struggle.
RODNEY: They’re being successful, and they don’t know it.
ELIAS: I have expressed, countless times, to individuals in conversations, over and over and over, acknowledgments to them. You are moving. You are accomplishing, and I am very aware that each of those individuals is thinking, “No, I am not.” Or they are thinking, “Very well that you see that. I do not see it. If I were you, I would see it, for you are not human. You are not in this reality.” And they are all correct. I am not, and I am not participating in your reality, but that is not the reason that I see, and you do not. It is not hidden from you. It is merely that you do not know how to direct your attention, for you do not pay attention to your attention. You are not aware of what you are paying attention to, or you are partially aware of what you are paying attention to, and not aware of what you are doing. You are paying attention to what you are thinking and not paying attention to what you are actually doing, and for many, many, many of you, you are already doing what you want to be doing, and you are thinking that you are not.
This is the significance of attention, and the significance of attention in relation to what is important is to define to yourselves in what you are paying attention to, “Why am I paying attention to this? Why is it important to me?” The financial situation, or in your terms, crisis, “Why is this important to me? Why am I paying attention to this? Is it personally affecting of me? How am I benefitting from paying attention to this? If I am not benefitting from paying attention to this, then it is not important.”
RODNEY: Let me inject something. I don’t think I’m totally alone in this, but some people want to observe what’s going on in the world simply for, how is it? How is it different from the way it was yesterday? How is it changing?
ELIAS: Very valid.
RODNEY: That would include...okay, there are people who talk about crisis. There are people who talk about everything is moving perfectly. Right? There’s always...
ELIAS: Generally speaking, those individuals that are interested in the mechanics of reality and enjoy observing are not necessarily bothered by what they are observing.
RODNEY: Oh no, I’ve enjoyed part of the shifting. It’s like I’m old enough to feel very, very significant differences about how people talk about certain subjects. There’s been a tremendous shift...
ELIAS: (Chuckles) Very much so.
RODNEY: ...over my lifetime...
RODNEY: ...I mean, subjects that were taboo are no longer taboo, which were felt to be this way are now that way, and it’s entertainment to...one has to be selective about what one is observing. I don’t want to see how many people, you know, had a car crash last night. I mean, a car crash is a car crash is a car crash.
ELIAS: For that moves in conjunction with your guidelines.
RODNEY: My guidelines.
ELIAS: Another individual may be fascinated with...
RODNEY: Well, that’s true.
ELIAS: ...car crash after car crash after car crash.
RODNEY: But it’s just another car crash to me, right?
ELIAS: Precisely, but that would also be a matter of what you pay attention to why...
ELIAS: ...what is important to you. Is it in conjunction with your genuine expression? Is it in conjunction with your personal, individual guidelines? How does it benefit you? An individual that expresses considerable attention to conflicts and wars and is bothered by that...
RODNEY: That’s a cruel problem, being bothered.
ELIAS: ...yes, and is bothered by that and is distressed by these subjects and is immobilized by these subjects or these actions. How does that benefit this individual? It does not. Therefore, why is it important? It is not, but you think it is important, and the reason you think it is important is based in fear.
RODNEY: And that individual is opposing...
ELIAS: Very much so.
RODNEY: ...what he perceives...
ELIAS: Yes, very much so.
RODNEY: ...where the individual who is simply an observer is not opposing.
ELIAS: Correct. And therefore, is not bothered. In this, how is it based in fear? It is based in fear, for the individual pays attention, in the idea that that will equip them to avoid. It does not, but that is their draw.
RODNEY: And that is...
ELIAS: Devaluing the individual, once again.
ELIAS: Fear is very closely associated with control.
RODNEY: How does the idea of standing up for something fit into this? Let’s suppose I’m an observer of political machinations, and somebody comes to me and says they’re going to pass a law which makes an abortion a criminal offense—under any circumstances—a criminal offense. They’re going to throw out the laws that we currently have and change it to be the opposite, and they say, “Will you stand up and say I oppose that change, that I want it to be the way it is, that a person has the legal right to have an abortion?”
I am, in one sense, standing up for what I believe in and simply acknowledging and expressing my opinion. On the other hand, I am opposing the changing of the law. This is a conflict for me, personally, and knowing the significance of those two positions, standing up for what you believe in, opposing, and in doing so, it’s not just that you’re opposing the change, you’re standing up for what you believe in.
ELIAS: First of all, let me express to you that they are not necessarily hand-in-hand.
RODNEY: They’re not hand-in-hand?
ELIAS: No. Expressing your opinion, or in your terms, standing up for what you believe in...
ELIAS: ...is not necessarily opposing the other expression.
ELIAS: It can be. You can direct energy in that manner in which you are opposing the other, in which you would not necessarily be standing up for what you believe. Your attention would be more focused upon opposition.
In this, your attention would be more focused in the direction of expressing right and wrong, and the importance becomes focused upon being right.
ELIAS: That is not an expression of standing up for what you believe in. That is being right, which is different. In this...
RODNEY: Because that’s a very muddy territory in politics.
ELIAS: I am aware.
RODNEY: That’s almost...
ELIAS: For they create it to be so...
ELIAS: ...which is another manipulation of control. Confuse the issue. Complicate the subject, and therefore, it becomes murky and confusing, and it is easier to control.
Now; in relation to your expression or your idea of standing up for what you believe in, generally speaking, if that is genuine, what you are doing is you are expressing the importance of the individual, and you are expressing that there is a benefit to you, and there is. Upholding the value of the individual is a benefit to you, for you are upholding your value as an individual, regardless of the subject. It matters not that, as you expressed, the subject could be abortion; you are a male individual, you would not be generating an abortion yourself, but regardless, you are expressing in a manner that is a benefit to you, for you are upholding the significance and the value of the individual.
Now; it could be argued that the other individuals that oppose abortion are expressing the same.
ELIAS: For they are expressing upholding the value of the unborn individual, but they are not. That is their platform, so to speak.
RODNEY: That’s their idea.
ELIAS: But they are not upholding the importance of the individual, for if they were upholding the importance of the individual, they would not be opposing the action of the abortion, for the individual is generating that choice. You are correct; they are upholding the idea...
ELIAS: ...which discounts the individual. And I am not advocating in favor or opposition to such an action; that is entirely not the point. The point is the subject—the importance of the individual—and in that, the value of the individual above and primary to the idea. Ideas are tremendous. They can be exceptionally beneficial, and they can be incredibly powerful, but they are not more important than you.
RODNEY: Wow, the individual.
ELIAS: No idea is more important than you.
RODNEY: That’s a pretty big statement.
ELIAS: You create ideas. They do not create you.
ELIAS: Therefore, that is of ultimate importance. This is the reason that what you pay attention to is so important, and that it is so significant to ask that question to yourself, “What is important, and why?”
ELIAS: In relation to religion, there are aspects of religions which are, in actuality, merely philosophies.
ELIAS: There are aspects of philosophies that may be important. They may be important to you, and you may answer that question, “How does it benefit me in very specific manners?” You may generate the ability to identify, specifically, how certain ideas or philosophies do benefit you, and this is the reason that they are important to you. What is dangerous in relation to attention is when you direct your attention blindly, without consideration to how it benefits you.
ELIAS: And very simply, without the muck...
RODNEY: (Laughs) Right.
ELIAS: ...expressing genuinely to yourself, if there is no benefit to you, there is no importance.
RODNEY: Wow. Okay.
ELIAS: It is that simple.
RODNEY: That’s a clarifying statement.
ELIAS: But it will be challenging to implement.
RODNEY: Ah, ha, of course!
ELIAS: It may be quite enlightening to discover how much you pay attention to, and offer importance to, that is not actually important.
RODNEY: Like whether or not my socks match.
RODNEY: I’m being funny. One of the questions that was raised is, “Will this wave in consciousness have a similar effect globally across religions, across continents, across cultures?” It will?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. I would express that it has already begun. You have already presented yourself with an obvious display with your figurehead...
ELIAS: ...which is not a coincidence.
RODNEY: And the fact that it incorporates a totally new continent, with South Africa...or South America, with a completely different culture?
ELIAS: Very much so. Also, I would express to you that this is a symbol.
ELIAS: What may be more significant to observe, may be shifts in relation to the Muslim religion, if you are inclined to observe religions, for that religion is much more encompassing than even the Christian religions.
RODNEY: You mean it incorporates more people, more countries, etc.?
ELIAS: More cultures, more influence, but I would not express, look to this and watch them. I am merely expressing if you are paying attention to religions, and if you are observing religions and their shiftings, that this would be a religion that would be more encompassing than your Christian religions.
RODNEY: And it’s going to shift along with all the others?
ELIAS: Yes, it will. And it has already begun also. It begins in those polarizations.
RODNEY: Yes, it was interesting for me to see, the other day, that the controlling factor in Egypt is opposing giving women the right to vote for the simple reason that if they have the right to vote, or maybe not the right to vote, but the right to sue under law, that they could sue their husbands for rape, and they could not possibly tolerate that.
ELIAS: Ah, but polarization feeds in the domino effect, in your terms, to dissention and change.
RODNEY: May I ask a question?
ELIAS: You may.
RODNEY: Well, one of the questions is, “How will this wave affect our religious beliefs?” and I think you’ve pretty much answered that. (Laughs) Patricia asks, “How am I religious in relation to Elias and the material?”
ELIAS: (Chuckles) You are all religious in relation to myself and the material.
ELIAS: For you all incorporate an aspect of viewing that as an authority which we have addressed to.
RODNEY: (Laughs) I know you have, and I appreciate that. I didn’t think Patricia would accept my answer to the question. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Perhaps, in that, not that I will topple in like manner to your pope...
ELIAS: ...but that you will rise yourselves in your perception to be more similar to myself.
RODNEY: Our own authority. What can we do to help keep our attention from scattering...
RODNEY: ...during this wave? That’s the whole point of the wave.
ELIAS: That IS the whole point of the wave. I would also express, as we were discussing previously in this conversation, it is a matter of noticing, noticing when your attention becomes fixed upon feelings, or fixed upon thinking, or fixed in a particular direction with a particular subject. For when that occurs, it distracts you, and it is much more difficult to be directing your attention intentionally, for you are already moving in the direction of the victim to yourselves in those moments, that you incorporate no control. You have no control of your feelings, no control of your thinking, which is entirely incorrect. You do, but that is the automatic expression.
In this, it is a matter of noticing when you are moving in these familiar directions, and how can you be less scattered in your attention? Very simply, keep asking yourselves that simple question, “What is important?”
RODNEY: “How does it benefit?”
ELIAS: “How does this benefit me, and what is important?”
ELIAS: Even if you cannot initially identify how a subject or an action benefits you, you can ask yourself, “What is important, and why?”
RODNEY: Good point.
ELIAS: You very frequently, very often lose sight of what is important.
RODNEY: And it’s something we should...we would benefit from being aware of on a moment-to-moment basis.
ELIAS: Very much so. And let me express to you, my friend, very genuinely, it all seems much more difficult to do than it actually is.
ELIAS: It incorporates much more time to explain it than to do it.
ELIAS: And in this, tremendous effort and energy is not required, that if you are generating tremendous effort and energy in these directions, you are complicating much too much. The direction is simple and does not require tremendous energy, or tremendous effort, or much time. It is merely a matter of noticing what is important and what is not.
RODNEY: Thank you. One more question...
ELIAS: Very well.
RODNEY: ...that I’d like to ask from John (Rrussell). I’ll read it to you.
ELIAS: Very well.
RODNEY: “Concepts of leadership and group dynamics (organizational behavior) in the workplace, as they rest on the foundation of our economic systems, seem to clash with the concepts of The Religious Wave—let me finish—such as non-control and self-directedness. How might this be reconciled in the near term? Please illustrate a typical organizational role and how it might change through The Religious Wave, for example, CEO of a corporation, M&A manager at an investment bank, sales associate of a software company, or marketing project manager at a pharmaceutical.”
ELIAS: It matters not what you do. It is not in opposition to each other. And I would express that, once again, it is very simple. It is a matter of being aware of what is important to you, regardless of what your role is, or what company you work with, or what authorities, so to speak, are involved in the workplace, so to speak. It is a matter of each individual evaluating and being aware of what is important to them individually. In this, it does not necessarily directly set a conflict in the structures of corporations or businesses. In actuality, dependent upon what you are paying attention to, it could be a benefit. You can benefit, and the corporation can benefit, dependent upon what is important to you, and what you are doing that is important to you, and why, or whether you are doing in relation to what is not important to you. If so, I would suggest that you stop. If it is not important to you, if you do not incorporate an interest, if your only motivation in a particular corporation or job, so to speak, is money, I would express that this is not a benefit, and therefore, not important, and therefore, subsequently, perhaps you should not be doing it.
I would express that in relation to hierarchies, or what you think of as authorities, they are only authorities if you place them in that position, regardless of who they are. A CEO is only an authority if you place them in that position. That individual is no more important than you unless you place them in that position. Your job is equally important as their job, or they would not have a job.
Therefore, it is a matter of evaluating what is the importance of my position in what I am doing, and what is my benefit, and not concerning yourself with what other individuals are doing, or what position they are in, or whether they are an authority or not, for they cannot be an authority if you do not place them in that position. That is the factor of the suggestion; shall you accept the suggestion as the idea being important or as you being important? If you accept the idea as being important, in your own individual capacity, you are likely to move in the direction of your Second World War. If you are moving in the direction of accepting that YOU are important, you move in the direction of the non-existent Salk vaccine.
RODNEY: The non-existent?
ELIAS: For it is obsolete.
RODNEY: Oh, the polio. Okay.
ELIAS: You empower yourself, or you empower the idea. It is your choice. That is the simplicity of this. This wave, very simple—challenging to implement—but very simple. What are you paying attention to?
RODNEY: Before we close, maybe a one-sentence statement; I’ve been reading some of the writings of Oscar Wilde, and I noticed that he was making much of the value of the individual, in most of what he said, and that was your last focus in linear terms. Do you have any other focuses that also developed these ideas?
RODNEY: Are they...
ELIAS: Not of such notoriety, but, yes, many.
RODNEY: Would you care to cite...just some people might be interested in the historical perspectives? I don’t know if that’s the right word for it. Another focus of yours whose work is easily accessible, that you would recommend reading for enjoyment and whatever, who would benefit from it.
ELIAS: Not presently.
RODNEY: Not presently?
ELIAS: Not presently, not within this wave.
RODNEY: Okay, but you might cite someone in the future?
ELIAS: Perhaps. In this wave, it would set a dynamic to easily move in the direction of another authority.
RODNEY: Oh, okay, (Laughs) that’s somewhat of a cryptic answer; I appreciate it.
ELIAS: I choose not to participate in that type of suggestion. (Laughs)
ELIAS: But perhaps futurely.
ELIAS: Very well.
RODNEY: Thank you.
ELIAS: You are very welcome, my friend, and I would express this has been quite enjoyable.
RODNEY: So much so that I’m hoping to have a personal Private Session with you in the not-to-distant future.
RODNEY: It’s been a long time.
ELIAS: I shall greatly be anticipating of that, my dear friend.
RODNEY: Thank you.
ELIAS: Dear and old friend, until our next meeting, and you may offer my greetings to all of your friends that were participating in this.
RODNEY: I certainly will.
ELIAS: To you all, and to you, au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour, 4 minutes, 19 seconds.)
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