Saturday, November 23, 2024 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jessie (Anibeth)

ELIAS: Good morning!

JESSIE: Hi, Elias.

ELIAS: And how shall we begin?

JESSIE: I would eventually like to get to talking about, you know, my tools and implementing that, but I want to just go over some things that happened since we last spoke.

ELIAS: Very well.

JESSIE: The guy that I was dating that I talked to you about, we had talked about taking things slow, like not rushing. And last Saturday night he asked me to be his girlfriend, which I was kind of surprised by and caught off guard, so I basically said that I wasn't ready yet for that.

ELIAS: Congratulations.

JESSIE: And then the next morning I sent him a message that I'd like to continue our conversation because I didn't get to express myself clearly, I felt like, because I was just kind of caught off guard and a little bit anxious and couldn't really gather my thoughts too well. And some of the things I told him maybe I shouldn't have told him, I don't know, but I said I wanted to get to know him more and I just want to make sure that the person I'm with is emotionally available, and I said something about having a hard time trusting. So I think I gave him the impression that I'm emotionally closed, because he sent me a message the next day saying he didn't want to see me anymore or talk to me anymore and that I'm emotionally closed, and communication is very important to him and blah blah blah. I do see in some ways how I'm emotionally closed, but I was trying to be open.

ELIAS: I don't necessarily agree with that. I would say that to a degree you're guarded, but I wouldn't agree with the statement of being emotionally closed.

JESSIE: ‘Cause it made me question myself, and I almost felt like I was being gaslit because I thought HE was being emotionally closed, because I felt like I couldn't get a lot of information out of him. I asked him why he doesn't ask more about me, like why doesn't he want to know more about me? And he kept saying he wanted to get to know me layer by layer, and I told him that it felt like he was keeping me at arm’s length. Why was he doing that? Why didn't he want to get to know me more?

ELIAS: That is his issue, and I'd say that he deflected THAT quite well.

And let me also say to you, my friend, that that was what you might term to be a setup, meaning that from all of your interactions and conversations, he already knew that you weren't necessarily ready to move in the direction of making that type of commitment. And in that, I'd say that that was his out.

JESSIE: Oh.

ELIAS: Because you were beginning to ask questions about HIS emotional involvement, or the lack of, and therefore this was the manner in which he could move very quickly in a direction of altering it and therefore not emotionally connecting.

JESSIE: My other question was because he's an immigrant to this country, and a lot of them try to get married so they can get citizenship.

ELIAS: Correct.

JESSIE: And I wondered if he saw me as a potential for that, like to use me for that.

ELIAS: I would agree. And I would say that this is a very common ploy.

JESSIE: Well, that's not cool. That makes me feel really used.

ELIAS: What I would say is, this gives you information. In that, it's not about discounting yourself and expressing in that capacity of being used, even though that is for the most part what this individual was doing. But – that's not the point. The point is what you have gained from this experience.

First of all, you've gained allowing yourself to put yourself in a position in which you can interact with other people, and that you're allowing yourself to be vulnerable, and you're allowing yourself to take steps to be connecting with other people. Therefore, that's the first piece, and that is something that is of definite benefit.

As you and I discussed, you're correct. You're not ready to be engaging in some type of committed relationship, but that doesn't mean that you can't interact with people. That doesn't mean that you can't connect with people. And in that, this gives you also good information in relation to yourself, that it's a matter of remembering that you're going to chemically attract other individuals that match you.

Now; that doesn't mean you're doing the same thing as the other individual; what it does mean is that the imagery may be different, but the core may be the same. This individual is not ready for a committed relationship either.

JESSIE: Was he even actually genuinely interested me in at all? Or it was all just…

ELIAS: No. I would say yes, that there was definitely an interest in you as an individual, but there was also an underlying agenda.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: And therefore, in that, when it appeared that that agenda was not going to be accomplished, then his direction was to cut ties and move on.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: And in that, I would say that even in relation to the other individual having what you might term to be a hidden agenda, that's not to say that YOU do but that there are still factors in relation to your behaviors, your expectations, your expectations of yourself that might still be – or actually are – still hidden from YOU. Do you understand?

JESSIE: Can you guide me a little bit on what you're talking about?

ELIAS: How long were you involved with your husband?

JESSIE: (Laughs) Like 16 years.

ELIAS: Sixteen years. And when was the beginning of that? How old were you?

JESSIE: 22.

ELIAS: 22, which is very young – and impressionable.

Now; in that, at that age you don't have the tools or the ability yet to be efficiently engaging in a committed relationship with another individual….UNLESS – and even with this it's questionable – unless you have had what you would term to be an almost perfect upbringing: no trauma, completely loving and giving parents, wonderful childhood, excellent relationships with siblings, and so forth. And that's not what would describe you.

JESSIE: Right.

ELIAS: In this, I would say that also, when you have unaddressed trauma, you're going to attract individuals that match you; and therefore, in that, that's another obstacle, let us say, that is in the mix.

Now; in that, then you learn through your experiences with your partner how to be [audio cut off]. You learn what is successful, regardless of whether it's dysfunctional or not. You learn what is successful in how to be with your partner. And in that, they learn how to be with you, meaning they learn what can be manipulating you, and you learn what can be done in manipulating them. And in that, what you learn is how to function in dysfunction, and how to cope in dysfunction. And when you're already coming from dysfunction and trauma, this simply adds to it. Therefore, you're learning behaviors that you don't even realize what you're doing.

In this, then you also learn what you THINK you want that you don't have. Whatever it is in your relationship that is not present, or that you perceive you don't have, or you don't have enough of, then what you do is you imagine what you want, and you imagine what would be better. But these are your own ideas, because you have not the experience. You don't know what the actual experience is of being in a healthy, loving relationship; therefore, you simply imagine what you think is better.

This is a holdover from childhood. Children imagine what the perfect parent would be. They imagine what they want their mother to be, what they want their father to be, and what would be the perfect image of those individuals. And as you develop, you move in a direction of doing the same thing, and you don't REALIZE you're doing the same thing, but now you're doing it in relation to a partner and a family.

JESSIE: How do you, like, not do that, I guess? Or what should I do instead? I feel like I can't learn without experience, without dating people.

ELIAS: Precisely! That's the point. And that was what I was expressing to you earlier, that even though you may not be ready for a committed relationship, that doesn't mean that you can't be dating and interacting and experiencing, because that gives you valuable information. It gives you information about yourself, it gives you information about other people, and it helps you to learn how to maintain yourself, how to maneuver, how to function in manners that are actually what you want. And a lot of that has to do with paying attention to yourself and looking at yourself in a realistic capacity: Who are you? What is it that you want in your life? What is important to you?

And in that, when you are thinking about a partnership and what you imagine that you want in a partnership, allowing yourself to realize that's what you're imagining because you don't have the experience, therefore you don't know yet, and in that you can experiment and you can see different qualities, different traits, different behaviors in people that you like and that you value, and you can also see those qualities and expressions and behaviors that you don't like and that you don't want. And in that, time by time, as you engage with other individuals you move in directions of drawing to you more and more what matches you now, and what IS more aware and what is more functional.

I'm not expressing to you not to imagine, but in addition to imagining, being open to what the realistic experiences are. Do you understand?

JESSIE: Yeah, I think.

ELIAS: Excellent.

Let me say to you, my friend, you are a very intelligent young woman, and you are actually considerably self-aware.

JESSIE: But I feel like I'm not, like, after… When you talk about my relationship with my husband I am aware of a lot of stuff, but it sounds like I'm not.

ELIAS: No, I would say you ARE aware of a lot, and I would say that you are considerably self-aware. That doesn't mean that there aren't some things that you're not aware of yet and that you will BECOME aware of. I would say that just as you weren't aware before of what were the bases of your traumas but then you BECAME aware, you discovered that yourself, and that gave you considerable information also in relation to you and your behaviors and what drives them, and in that, how to change. And this is the same.

And I would say that you are considerably self-aware already. And in that, I would very much acknowledge you also that you pay attention. Actually, what I would say to you is that in how you pay attention, sometimes you have a tendency to discount yourself or judge yourself more than is necessary.

JESSIE: (Laughs) Yeah.

ELIAS: I would say that you definitely have a tendency to look at what you're presenting to yourself, which is good, but then turn it on yourself, in relation to –

JESSIE: Well, I did that with this situation, I questioned myself. You know, it’s like… I wanted to [inaudible].

ELIAS: I'd say eventually you will move in a direction in which that's not as...

JESSIE: Strong?

ELIAS: … strong as it is now, that you'll move in a direction of perhaps questioning yourself initially but then also looking at the whole picture, and therefore not necessarily judging yourself so harshly.

JESSIE: Mm-hm. And trusting myself more?

ELIAS: Yes, yes. And that is something that you are learning.

JESSIE: Yes. Well, when I was dating him, we kept either seeing owls or having owl imagery appear, and a simple Google search… I mean, everyone associates owls with wisdom and whatever, but also it said deception. And I didn't want to believe that could have been why, but maybe is that why we kept seeing owls?

ELIAS: I would agree. I would say that was imagery that you were presenting to you.

JESSIE: Yeah. (Sighs) My friend, the girl I talked about previous to him…

ELIAS: Yes.

JESSIE: She contacted me yesterday after my dad died, offering her support. She randomly will reply to photos that I post on social media. But the one time I asked her how she was she didn’t respond, and I'm not trying to put in any effort anymore. I still think about her and miss her, but I don't understand what she's doing. Can you tell me why she's still contacting me but doesn't want to actually have a relationship with me – like a friendship, I mean.

ELIAS: I'd say that she cares about you and she has feelings for you, but she is afraid.

JESSIE: Afraid of what?

ELIAS: Afraid of HAVING a relationship with you.

JESSIE: A friendship?

ELIAS: Yes, that that would likely develop into something else and that frightens her.

JESSIE: Because she doesn't want that?

ELIAS: I'd say it's not necessarily that black and white; it's that it scares her and that she doesn't understand it, and she doesn't understand how to be.

JESSIE: Yeah. Was there ever – like before I probably sabotaged the situation partially – was there ever any type of interest in that manner from her? Or just not at all and she just didn't know how to navigate it?

ELIAS: I'd say more the latter, because I would say that she doesn't know how to move in that direction and doesn't understand her own feelings in that regard, and therefore it is something that she simply didn't consider.

JESSIE: Oh. Okay.

I want to ask about this dream I had the other night. I was outside and I saw two moons, and then one of the moons turned into some type of alien ship and it was in the sky, and then it kind of pointed down towards me like it was coming to get me. So I ran inside this house, and I went down – you know, to try to hide – went into the basement, found a hidden room. Then I went deeper, found another even more hidden space, then I maybe even again found another hidden space. And I wasn't even there long and this man came, and I knew he was coming to get me for, I think, the spaceship, even though he looked human. And then I came up outside with a few other people, and there was something about… I can't remember clearly, but something to do with the ship being there and humans and their differences and accepting differences. And that's pretty much all I remember.

ELIAS: That's definitely a strong extreme of accepting differences. (Chuckles) I would say that that is an excellent display to emphasize the extremes of differences. And I would say to you also that in relation to how people perceive differences, that that extreme is not so far-fetched. I would express that the reason that you presented this type of imagery to yourself is that this was an expression of how strange and threatening differences can appear.

JESSIE: Mm-hm. I thought that the going deep into the house and underground basically was like kind of going into those hidden parts of myself.

ELIAS: I would agree. Excellent assessment. Very good.

JESSIE: Well, my friend mentioned it, and I was like, oh yeah, well, that makes sense. (Both chuckle)

ELIAS: I would say that in that, it is also matter of how difficult it is to actually look at those differences.

JESSIE: Well, I didn't really fight it when that guy came for me.

ELIAS: Which is excellent. But I would say that the imagery of you hiding was also very accurate, that once you are presented with the situation of looking at those differences, you're willing to do so.

JESSIE: Meaning I'm currently hiding?

ELIAS: No, no, that you were, but that you are willing to move in the direction of looking at those differences and NOT hiding from them. That is the outcome of the dream.

JESSIE: Okay. All right.

Going back to our talk last time, I've tried implementing the tools a bit. I feel like things got a little tumultuous. I kind of had a hard time remembering to do certain things. I did meditate at least several times and I started beading, but it hasn't been a daily thing. I know the point is to not wait till life calms down but to be able to, you know, center myself WHEN life is like this.

ELIAS: Precisely.

JESSIE: But it's just a little challenging for me to start new habits, I guess, when it feels a little tumultuous.

ELIAS: I understand, and it can feel overwhelming, and that's understandable also. I would say to you that what is important is that you continue to remind yourself that when things are tumultuous, that is the time that is most important for you to be engaging in these directions.

JESSIE: Yes.

ELIAS: And in that, I also will acknowledge, I understand that it's challenging to remember. That's the reason that I expressed the suggestion to put reminders on your devices, such as your phone. And in that, it doesn't matter that you might not be experiencing something when your reminder is alerting you; that doesn't matter, because what is happening is you're giving yourself a reminder anyway, and that helps you when something IS happening to remember, or to pause and simply remember to find your tool book. You don't have to remember all of your tools; all you have to do is remember to find your tool book.

JESSIE: Okay, I did write it all down.

ELIAS: Good.

JESSIE: (Pausing) This is a different subject again, but I want to date women but I'm definitely very nervous too, because it's obviously different. [Inaudible]

ELIAS: It’s not as different as you imagine.

JESSIE: Okay. Did you say it was more genuine for me?

ELIAS: I would say that what is genuine for you is that you could move in either direction.

JESSIE: Okay.

ELIAS: It's not black and white.

JESSIE: Yeah. Because I didn't feel like it WAS black and white really, for me. I don’t know if it is for anyone, but for me…

ELIAS: Some people, it is. And I would say that this is what I was discussing in our group interaction recently, to help people to actually recognize and define themselves.

JESSIE: Yeah. Maybe I'll give that a listen, but it did just trigger a question I had for you about how I still feel guilty, or like I need to hide it from him, but when I was dating, I didn't want my ex to find out or to see any… or I just didn't want him to know. I guess I still feel like responsible for his feelings?

ELIAS: I would definitely encourage you to look at that and to not move in that direction. And in that also, you are not obligated to him in relation to what you choose. If you choose to be dating and interacting with other individuals, that has no involvement with him.

JESSIE: Yeah. I guess I'll have to reflect on that more. But I was listening to our last session where you were talking about… Here, I wrote it down: “To not repeat thinking about situations.” I definitely do that. My question is, how do I reflect on a situation and improve on myself or see what I did or didn't do if I'm not looking back at the situation? I want to learn from a situation so I don't end up repeating it. But is this where journaling would be beneficial?

ELIAS: It would definitely be beneficial. But as I was expressing to you before, it's not a matter of “you should never reflect on what you were doing before.” What the issue is, is that repeat thinking.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIASL: There's a difference between reflecting on something that you experienced or that you did in the past and therefore being able to make different choices, and repeat thinking. When you're moving in the direction of thinking and thinking and thinking about a particular experience, then you're not reflecting any longer. What you're doing is you're judging yourself, and that's not productive, and that doesn't move you in a direction of different choices.

Therefore, what I would say to you is, if you're genuinely reflecting on an experience and the choices that you made in a particular experience, then you follow that with, “What different choices can you make now?” Not “What could you have done then?” That is pointless, because you couldn't have done something different then, because that was the awareness that you had at the time. In that, it's a matter of following the reflection with “What choices and what behaviors can I express NOW that are different, and that would not put me in that position?” Do you understand?

JESSIE: Umm…Yeah, but I'm like thinking about the guy I just dated and what my choices now would be, so it…

ELIAS: Ah, excellent! Therefore, what WOULD your choices be that would be different now?

JESSIE: Well, I don't know, ‘cause I'm not like seeing him anymore, so I don't really get it.

ELIAS: It's not about him. If you were in a situation with ANOTHER individual, what choices would be different with the next individual that you engage? What will you do differently with the next individual?

JESSIE: I think I would hope to listen to myself more and follow that.

ELIAS: What does that mean?

JESSIE: I think there was… Well, there was a part of me that didn't trust him, (emotionally) but I thought it was just because I don't trust anybody, so I was confused.

ELIAS: Very well.

JESSIE: So I didn't know if I actually couldn't trust him, or if… I don't know. Now I feel like I shouldn't have trusted him.

ELIAS: What I would say to you in that is rather than making a blanket statement in hindsight, it's a matter of thinking about WHEN didn't you trust him? In what moment, in what situation did that occur to you that you didn't trust him? And in that, when you evaluate that, then you can express to yourself, “This is my information to myself. In the future, if I have a moment in which something strikes me and my intuition is expressing to me that I don't trust this, it's not an ‘in general’ expression; it's something that the individual is doing that is alerting me that I don't trust this.” Then it's a matter of doing something different, meaning not being silent.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: And you don't have to say to the other individual, “I don't trust you right now,” but you can ask questions in relation TO what you trust and what you don't trust. Or you could be very direct, and you could say, “I don't trust what you did just now. I don't feel comfortable with this behavior.” But that would be your choice which direction you move in. You don't have to be that direct – although, I would be advocating directness. (Chuckles)

JESSIE: Yeah. There was one thing that I said after the fact that I wasn't comfortable with.

ELIAS: Ah! And that is good also, even if it's after the fact; it doesn't matter.

JESSIE: Okay.

What choices would I make differently? Is that what the question was before?

ELIAS: Yes.

JESSIE: (Pause) Well, maybe be honest up front that I'm not looking for a relationship.

ELIAS: That's one, yes.

JESSIE: Uhh… I wonder if I over… not explained myself, but like that night when I said I have a hard time trusting and I want someone emotionally available, whatever else I said, if maybe I don't need to say all that. I think I was confused if I wanted a relationship with him or not.

ELIAS: Which is understandable.

JESSIE: Because I liked him and still wanted to hang out with him, but...

ELIAS: Yes. But I would also say that this idea of sharing too much is actually coming from a position of protection. And I'd say that it's not necessarily something that is accurate, that you can share with another individual and it's not your responsibility how they respond or react. If they react, then that gives you information about what you want and what you don't want, and that will be something you don't want.

JESSIE: Right. Okay.

ELIAS: That you want the other individual to be RESPONSIVE to you, but not reactive.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: And, I would say that offering information allows you to be in a position in which you are communicating, and you have that advantage of being able to evaluate how the other individual receives it.

JESSIE: Yeah. Okay.

ELIAS: Which is important.

JESSIE: Yeah.

Well, I just have like a minute left, probably. Anything else you feel like maybe you could tell me or might be good for me to hear? I don’t know.

ELIAS: What I would say is good for you to hear is an acknowledgement of you. I know that is difficult for you to hear, but it's important, that you're actually accomplishing much more than you think. And I would definitely encourage you to credit yourself and not express such automatic judgments.

JESSIE: Okay.

ELIAS: That's the part about being too harsh with yourself, that it is important for you to be gentle. And I would say that especially now, you have enough experiences in this present time framework that are emotionally draining; therefore, this is an excellent time to begin being gentle with yourself.

JESSIE: Okay.

I do keep pulling a healer card from my oracle cards over and over again, and I don't know if that means I'm healing, which I know I am healing, but also I am curious about being a healer of some kind eventually.

ELIAS: I would say that you definitely have that potential, and in relation to…

JESSIE: In what form?

ELIAS: in relation to your experiences, I would say that you have a definite potential to be a healer with other individuals in relation to emotional and psychological healing, and that in that, I would say that you are doing very well in your own healing, and eventually you have a considerable potential for engaging that with other individuals. I would be very –

[The timer for the session rings]

JESSIE: Like a therapist or something similar?

ELIAS: You don't even have to move in the direction of a therapist, but simply being a healer. And I would be very encouraging and supportive of you in that direction.

JESSIE: Okay. Well….Yeah, I know it is something I see for myself eventually, maybe, but it's still not really clear what type of direction, so…

ELIAS: I understand. But as you continue, I would say that it will become clear.

JESSIE: Okay. All right, thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome, and I am tremendously, tremendously supportive of you, my friend. In great love and dear friendship, as always, until our next meeting, au revoir.

JESSIE: Au revoir.

(ELIAS departs after 1 hour 9 minutes)

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