Monday, September 2, 2024 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jessie (Anibeth)


ELIAS: Good morning!

JESSIE: Hi Elias.

ELIAS: And how have you been proceeding, my friend?

JESSIE: Oh goodness. Mostly well. I guess I can update you. I think last time we spoke, I was going a little bit back and forth between leaving my husband. I had already done it, but he was trying to keep me to stay. Anyway, since then I did leave and I have my own apartment now and I love it, and I feel free.

ELIAS: Congratulations.

JESSIE: Thanks. And yeah, just…

ELIAS: What’s bothering you?

JESSIE: Um… So I wanted to get to this at some point, but I’ll just talk about it now. I had two friends throughout the past couple of years that I worked with, that truly helped me through this situation. And I felt very, like intimately connected to them. And one of them moved away and I’m sad about that. And the other one… I realize I started to like feel attracted to her and have feelings for her. I don’t know really exactly what I’m feeling, but it was getting uncomfortable for me to be around her without her knowing.

So I ended up telling her and she was really nice about it. But I… She said we should talk about how we both feel, or how to continue from there. But each time I read the message, I can read it in a different way depending on how I’m feeling, so I’m confusing myself. And I also told her to let me know when she feels ready to talk, and I’m having a really hard time letting go and waiting for her to tell me how she feels, either way. And I feel like I love her, but I don’t know (emotional) if it’s just like an attachment thing or… I just wasn’t expecting this to happen, so soon after separating, and it’s just a lot of emotion. So I don’t know what…

ELIAS: How long have you been friends with this individual?

JESSIE: I have known her, I don’t know, maybe at least four years, but I got close with her by the last two years.

ELIAS: And during that time, have you ever noticed romantic feelings for her?

JESSIE: Um… Yeah, I think in the winter, this past winter, I think I did but I didn’t really fully allow myself to go down that road because I was still in the process of leaving my husband. I also didn’t really think I was… or give the fact that I might be bisexual much thought. But yeah, I have noticed something.

ELIAS: That’s understandable. And then given that you left the situation with your husband, that would open that door and allow those feelings to present themselves in a more obvious capacity. And it’s also understandable feeling confused or even anxious, wanting the other individual to express something in one manner or another in order for you to validate yourself and to have some frame of reference of what direction to proceed in.

JESSIE: Right. And I—

ELIAS: When was it that you had this conversation?

JESSIE: About a week ago, and it was extremely difficult. I felt so vulnerable and I wanted to crawl out of my skin, telling her. It felt it’s so… I think I feel (emotional) ashamed.

ELIAS: Why? Why would you feel ashamed?

JESSIE: Because she was my friend, and I was so—

ELIAS: And she still is.

JESSIE: — scared. (Pause)

ELIAS: And there is nothing to be ashamed of. You haven’t done anything wrong and you haven’t wronged anyone else.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: You have expressed a more intimate feeling and expression for this individual. That’s certainly not wrong. That’s actually a compliment. There’s no reason for you to feel ashamed.

JESSIE: Mm-hm. I also feel like maybe I created this to have me practice being out of my comfort zone.

ELIAS: Which that’s understandable, but I would say that it’s more of an expression of actually allowing yourself to be vulnerable and to trust someone.

JESSIE: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: And that it’s been a time since you’ve been able to do that. And I would say that this is simply you moving in a direction of allowing yourself to do that and to take a step in a direction that is somewhat of a new exploration, but also moving in a direction that is more genuinely you than simply moving in the direction of what’s expected of you and what you’ve been taught.

JESSIE: Is it uncomfortable because I’m not used to it? Or…?

ELIAS: Definitely. Most definitely. And also because it’s unfamiliar territory and therefore being vulnerable in unfamiliar territory is somewhat scary.

JESSIE: Yeah. I am proud of myself for saying it, because I think I would have regretted it if I didn’t.

ELIAS: I would say you should be proud of yourself, that this is something that requires courage, to move in that type of direction.

Now; what I will say to you is, what is important at this point is to recognize that you’re also in a vulnerable state because you have recently separated yourself from your husband and from what you’ve known for quite some time. And that’s an important factor also, because it’s very common and very natural for people to move in directions of following attractions in this state – because you ARE vulnerable. And in that, it’s not only a matter of being vulnerable, but it’s also a matter of genuinely wanting connection, and wanting to feel and experience something more genuine.

Now; unfortunately, in this state that leads you into a direction of making choices that you’re not necessarily ready for. Meaning not choices about who you’re attracted to, but rather choices that you might engage subsequent to that recognition, and involving yourself in attempting to develop a relationship of a type that, as I said, you’re not ready for. And in that, it can create difficulties.

Therefore it’s important that you allow yourself to express yourself, and it’s important that you allow yourself to explore. But it’s also important that you take time and that you aren’t moving in a direction, without even recognizing it, of replacing – which happens very frequently in these situations, and especially when you move in this type of different direction. It—

JESSIE: What do you mean, different?

ELIAS: Different in the capacity that you’ve been in a heterosexual relationship for a considerable time, and now you’re moving in a different direction. Which is fine, but it’s unfamiliar. It’s a different type of expression. The dynamics are different and therefore with all that change it can cloud you to choices that are not necessarily to your greatest benefit – only because you’re not ready, not because you don’t have a genuine connection.

But when individuals move in directions of ending one committed relationship, let us say, you need time to process everything, to process everything you have experienced, everything that drew you to that individual in the first place, everything that happened in the relationship, what your participation was in it, what influences were in play. Because those influences still exist, and when you haven’t given yourself time to process everything you simply carry on those influences in the next relationship, which then dooms the next relationship.

JESSIE: How am I supposed to just be friends with her?

ELIAS: I would say it’s not a matter of just be friends, but it’s a matter of being realistic. And in that, you can explore a new relationship but also remember: it’s also a matter of what she is ready for or not ready for.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: Have you spoken to her at all since last week?

JESSIE: No. Only in a group message with our other friends in it. It wasn’t brought up. I don’t want to pressure her to talk about it if she’s not ready.

ELIAS: What I would say is you can say that, that you don’t want to pressure her, and you can also say that you understand that you’re not ready to engage a full romantic relationship, but that you simply wanted to express yourself and your feelings and would like to discuss it with her. In that, you’re removing the pressure of expectation. And you can even express that, that you don’t have expectations of her and that this is somewhat confusing for yourself also, and that you simply want to explore the subject and the idea with her.

JESSIE: Do you think…? I mean, I don’t even know if she’s open to this or thinking about it, but having a sexual relationship but not be in a relationship, if that makes sense?

ELIAS: There are two factors involved here. One is that it is genuinely much more difficult for female individuals to engage a purely sexual relationship, because female individuals are more intuitive. And because they’re more intuitive naturally, they connect faster. And in that, let me also express that – now this something that is partially learned and partially natural – that female individuals don’t actually engage sexual activity without the emotional aspect. And therefore, I would say that it’s not that they cannot. If they are engaged with someone that they are simply engaging sex in the motions of it, they can detach themselves and have no emotional expression involved. But—

JESSIE: Yeah. And except I don’t… I’m not really interested—

ELIAS: That is not the situation when you are actually friends with the individual and have been for quite some time, and that you care about them, and moving in a direction of attraction in addition. That would not be a situation of a sexual interaction with no attachment.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: And what I would say is that’s one of the pieces that I am speaking to you about, in relation to what you’re not ready for yet. Not in that capacity. What I would say is, if you were wanting to engage a sexual relationship with someone that was nothing more than that, you could find some male individual that you could do that with, but this is not—

JESSIE: Yeah, I can see that it would be really hard to stay detached with her.

ELIAS: Yes.

JESSIE: So…

ELIAS: Yes.

JESSIE: Can I ask, is she even thinking about it or is she avoiding it?

ELIAS: She’s thinking about it and I would say not necessarily avoiding, but not knowing how to proceed.

JESSIE: Hm. Okay. (Pause) All right.

ELIAS: That’s the reason also that I would suggest that you could contact her and express in the manner that I suggested, that you’re not pressuring her or having expectations but that you simply are inquiring if she’s uncomfortable, if it’s possible for the two of you to communicate with each other and can you explore the subject or not?

JESSIE: Okay.

For now, I want to move on to—

ELIAS: Very well.

JESSIE: Thank you. I have been really drawn to dancing lately. I’m having a lot of fun with it. I feel like it’s giving me a little bit of confidence and kind of like embracing my femininity, a little bit.

ELIAS: Excellent.

JESSIE: And I have read that dancing, with your hips especially, can release trauma that’s stored in the body. And I’m wondering if that’s why I’ve been so drawn to it, partially?

ELIAS: I would say yes.

JESSIE: And is it releasing some trauma?

ELIAS: It’s releasing some energy of that. I would say that that’s the point. And in that also, understand that that doesn’t mean that it actually moves the trauma from one hemisphere of your brain to the other, but it does release a considerable amount of held energy, which can be very beneficial.

JESSIE: Okay. All right.

I want to talk about a dream I had the other night. It felt very scary. I wrote it down. Let me just read it. I wrote:

Doug (which is my ex-husband), he attacked me and tried kissing me and forcefully holding me. I used my strength to smash his head into the ground and it severely hurt him. I thought for a second I may have killed him, but he laid there with some gashes and gross holes in his wrist that looked like they were screw holes. I shook him and he kind of smirked like he was drunk and out of it.

Then I was on the phone with my son Luca and he’s whispering something to me and I can’t quite hear him. And then finally I hear him and he says, “Baby Jess.” And I woke up.

And there was another piece I remember about being in a house, and I was close – I was inside, but I was kind of close to the window and the edge of the house and feeling… Oh, also the house was moving, like it was on a truck or somehow that house is moving. And it didn’t feel stable when I was trying to park it. Yeah, I was scared to get too close to the edge of the house.

So…

ELIAS: And your impression?

JESSIE: Well, the baby Jess, when I woke up I first thought that… Okay, well first let me say when I, when I attacked Doug it felt… I felt angry, like I wasn’t being listened to, and similar to how I came to be with my kids. I’d get angry. And when Luca said, “Baby Jess,” I thought that maybe there was maybe trauma or something that happened to me as a baby. I’m not sure if I was left crying for a long time and no one came, no one listened, or something like that. That was just kind of my impression there. I also felt like me attacking Doug and him being really hurt was maybe telling me how hurt he is right now. Me being in that house that’s moving and unstable and yeah… I guess I’m not feeling stable.

So, what do you have to say?

ELIAS: I would say that one layer of the part about the violence that occurred in the dream with you and your husband is what you expressed. Another layer is that it’s symbolic about, in a manner of speaking, your anger and wanting to hurt back in relation to the hurt that you have felt and experienced.

JESSIE: In the relationship or just in life?

ELIAS: In the relationship. I would say that your impression in relation to the imagery of baby Jess is correct. I would say that the imagery of the house moving, that’s actually imagery about change and your life changing and moving in new and different directions, but that it also feels somewhat unstable. And that’s understandable.

I would say that the symbology of a lot of this dream is also about being in flux. That things are uncertain and that you’re addressing to a lot of experience and hurt throughout your life. Just as I expressed to you earlier that in relation to you not being ready for another relationship, I would say that it’s a matter of not only looking at the dynamic of the relationship that you had with your husband, but what brought you to that and what influences were in play in relation to that. Which that brings you back to before you even met him and before you were married. And in that—

JESSIE: Well, Elias—

ELIAS: Yes?

JESSIE: I have noticed that at times I’m feeling back to how I used to feel before I met him, where I didn’t feel good enough and no one liked me, and obviously (emotional) just my self-worth is really low. So the fact that he gave me any attention I think is… superficially made me feel better. And so now I notice that I’m feeling that way again, except that I want to be able to make myself feel worthy, not from somebody else. (Pause)

ELIAS: Very understandable, and that’s the point, is—

JESSIE: I feel like I could… would have to spend my whole life processing all this stuff before I’d be ready—

ELIAS: No, no, no. No, no, no. That’s not true. That’s not true. I would say that actually what takes you a lifetime to experience and build in energy and create all of these influences and directions can be addressed to, actually realistically speaking, in less than a year.

JESSIE: (Chuckles) Okay. But like, how?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) How that happens is… (Pause) I will express this to you in a very realistic capacity. You could choose to engage a counselor, a therapist, which they generally will incorporate more time to actually address and process the situation. I’m not entirely certain why they choose to incorporate so much time when it’s entirely unnecessary, but they generally do. Therefore realistically speaking, you can choose to engage a counselor and it might require, I would say, two or three years in relation to the process that a counselor will engage, which would involve EMDR sessions.

I would say you could engage with myself and I can generate likely two or three sessions in an intensive exercise that will or is designed to and will move the memory or memories plural from the right hemisphere of your brain to the left hemisphere of your brain, which is the point and which a counselor will do also, but they will engage much more time doing it.

I would say that after that, it would be a matter of perhaps once a month engaging conversations for a few months, and then—

JESSIE: With you?

ELIAS: (Inaudible) is done.

JESSIE: With you?

ELIAS: Yes.

JESSIE: Okay. I mean, you think I’m ready for that? To like do that type of session with you?

ELIAS: Yes, I do. You and I have engaged many conversations and at this point I would say that you’re at a point that you are ready to be looking at yourself, your life. You’re ready to be looking at your own trauma and how that has influenced you in your life, and you’re ready to move forward.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: And that you want to move forward, and that’s a significant piece.

JESSIE: How much time would you set, suggest, in between those intensive sessions with you?

ELIAS: In between those intensive sessions, I would say about two weeks.

JESSIE: Oh. Okay. That’s not much time.

ELIAS: That’s generally the direction that I move in with individuals that are engaging in this type of trauma work.

JESSIE: Okay. Well—

ELIAS: And generally speaking – and I would say barring any unforeseen situation – that it should only require two or three sessions, and that should be enough to address to the trauma.

Understand: you don’t have to recall all of your trauma. You don’t have to objectively address to all of your trauma, and it would be unrealistic to think that you even could. What you do is you address to one or two and in that, then what you’ve done is you’ve given a clear message to your subjective awareness that this is the direction you’re moving in and your subjective awareness will take over and will do the rest.

JESSIE: Hm. That’s kind of cool.

ELIAS: Yes, I agree. (Laughs)

JESSIE: Fascinating. Okay.

ELIAS: That then your subjective awareness addresses to the rest of the traumas, and in that, it processes that and moves it for you from the right hemisphere of your brain to the left hemisphere of your brain.

In this, the left hemisphere of your brain, once we start – or once you start with a counsellor, it’s your choice – the left hemisphere of your brain immediately begins preparation in creating new grooves in your brain to move those memories.

JESSIE: Okay. Does it automatically mean I would remember them, even… like if they’re moved? Or sometimes you still don’t?

ELIAS: Sometimes you still won’t. I would say that what is tremendously helpful, whichever direction you move in, is to initially attempt to recall one memory, even if it’s not entirely clear, but one memory that you can point to that was a traumatic experience. It doesn’t matter what age you were. And in that, once you generate one, then others will begin to surface.

Also, I would say that if you don’t remember, if you can’t recall any experience at all that appears to be some experience of trauma, if you have feelings that seem to be disproportionate to your experiences or you have feelings that are not associated with anything, that simply seem to randomly happen, that are tense, those are indicators. And you don’t have to have a recall of a memory.

JESSIE: Okay. All right, Elias. I’m going to probably talk to Mary about booking a first session of that with you, but I want to try to ask you two more things if possible.

ELIAS: Very well. Let me offer one more piece of information. (Jessie chuckles) If you choose to engage with myself, during those first two or three intensive sessions with the exercise, that’s something that I would require you to be in physical proximity with.

JESSIE: Oh. Okay. Okay.

ELIAS: For that’s something to consider also.

JESSIE: And Mary has done this with other people and they’re always in physical proximity?

ELIAS: Yes.

JESSIE: Okay. Oh. Fortunately I don’t live too, too far. Okay.

All right. So I had this summer a situation that was kind of interesting. I was at my parents’ house and a hornet stung me on the cheek and I couldn’t get it off. It was freaking me out. I finally got it off. I covered my cheek and I went and got some ice and put some ice on it right away. And I didn’t want to look in the mirror. I was scared to look in the mirror. And later that – not too much later – but later that day, I just got an impression that it felt the same way I do when I get an impression about a dream. So it made the situation almost feel like a dream, that I mean symbolically I can’t look at myself in the mirror and I can’t face the ugly parts of myself physically and… you know, emotionally or whatever. Is that… Is that kind of what that symbology was?

ELIAS: Yes. And also partially about hurting yourself.

JESSIE: Still hurting myself?

ELIAS: Yes.

JESSIE: How? (Pause)

ELIAS: I’d say that you do it in different capacities. You hurt yourself by judging yourself. You hurt yourself by not accepting. You hurt yourself by being impatient with yourself.

JESSIE: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: And by thinking that you’re not good enough.

JESSIE: Yeah. Well, I’m working on it.

ELIAS: I know you are, and I acknowledge that.

JESSIE: And that’s good enough. (Chuckles)

ELIAS: Yes, it is.

JESSIE: Okay.

ELIAS: Congratulations. (Chuckles)

JESSIE: Thanks. So, back to my friend. Is it love that I feel for her? Like even just as a friend? Or is it only attraction?

ELIAS: I would say that it’s a combination of both.

JESSIE: Yeah. Okay.

[Portion omitted]

JESSIE: (Chuckles) Okay. (Elias chuckles) Well, the timer hasn’t gone off yet. Any, anything you’d like to say?

ELIAS: I would actually say to you that I express a considerable amount of pride in what you have been accomplishing, and your willingness and desire to move forward. I would say that you have been considerably courageous and I applaud that tremendously.

JESSIE: Thank you.

ELIAS: I will also say to you that addressing to your traumas will also help your children.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: It will help you to engage more patience with them and to express more understanding with them.

JESSIE: Yeah. Because I know how strongly that’s affecting me and them. And yeah, that’s where I’m hurting myself because I’m severely judging myself for that.

ELIAS: And I would say that is not helpful.

[The timer for the end of the session rings]

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: And not only is it not helpful, but it exacerbates the situation. It makes it worse.

JESSIE: Yeah.

ELIAS: Because the more you judge yourself, the more you’re impatient with yourself and then the more impatient you are with them.

JESSIE: Yeah. Okay. Well, I need to get these sessions going then, huh?

ELIAS: (Laughs) I express tremendous, tremendous love to you and such a great acknowledgement of what you’re doing, and your desire – which is strong.

Until our next meeting, in very dear friendship and great appreciation to you, my friend, au revoir.

JESSIE: Thank you, Elias. Good-bye.

(Elias departs after 1 hour)

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