Session 202404301

Family Issues, Part 2


“Family Issues, Part 2”
“Progress in Listening to Self”
“The Importance of Communication”
“Catching Oneself Trying to Fix Things for Others”
“Energy Flux"

Tuesday, April 30, 2024

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Anon

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

ANON: Good afternoon, Elias.

ELIAS: And how are you proceeding, my friend?

ANON: Oh, I think I'm doing a lot better than I was last time that you helped me.

ELIAS: That's very [inaudible]. And what has been occurring?

ANON: Well, first I'll say that our talk last time, it felt like a psychedelic session feels to me. It felt very purging and cleansing and huge. And I walked away feeling lighter, even though it was a tremendously powerful experience.

And I felt that… well, yeah, I had to make some changes, and I wasn't sure what to do, so I kind of dithered again for a week or two. And then a day came where I feel like I created two opportunities to disengage in the same day. Really felt like it, and the first thing that happened was it was like I had an esophageal spasm and I felt like I was going to choke. And I felt like I could have had a stroke because it felt really strange in my head. But then it subsided and I was okay, and it's like, “Oh my god, I really almost died there. I almost chose to die. I think things have gotten just really too bad here, I need to make a change or else it probably would be better to disengage if I'm not going to take care of myself.”

Then later on that day, I almost had a driving accident, and I almost felt like I was out of my body before it happened.

So again, to me, I took it as, “Okay, I really need to make some changes.” So I talked to my father about moving out. I asked him if he would be okay going back to the assisted living. And of course he was very agreeable and sweet, as he always is, but I wasn't sure if he was genuinely feeling that, and I was worried about it. I kind of went back and forth between feeling super relieved and worrying for him and could I have done things differently, or would it be different if my energy was better or whatever?

Then I finally talked to him about it again. I just checked in and I told him how I was feeling. And again he said, “Well, I'm comfortable there, and I don't have to talk to people there and I'm fine.” So then I was okay again.

And then, like, the third time yesterday, again I was worrying about it, so I told him more of my concerns and worries, and he was very sweet again. You know, I kind of get the feeling like he'll miss some things about being here but that he wants to be supportive to me and for me to be happy. And also that he can be fine there. Like, he WILL be fine there and it's familiar to him. So, like, he's not uncomfortable; he's just acknowledging that he'll miss a couple things about being here. And he's being really sweet to me about it. So, again I'm feeling like –

ELIAS: Can he not visit?

ANON: Oh, yeah, he can visit, and I can visit him and all that, so I think it will be fine. It's an hour away, but that's not a problem. I can go see him and my brother can bring him over. My brother lives in that town. So it’ll be fine. I really just think it is the best thing for me and for my health and that I really do need to take care of my health and I need the time to do that. Like, really focus on it instead of focusing on his needs and getting him to the doctor and all of the things that he needs for himself, which kind of eats into my day.

So that's kind of where we are right now, is that dad's moving out on Wednesday. And I've been doing more yoga and riding my bike more and things that I enjoy. And I'm working… like, I've been noticing all the ways that I still automatically try to take responsibility for other people and their happiness and singlehandedly make everything right in their world according to what I think is right. (Laughs)

And I know that it may not be actually the right thing, but it's like what seems right to me is what I exert myself to do, and then it's hard on me. It's not good for me, and it ended up really not good for anybody.

ELIAS: I would tremendously, tremendously applaud you. I would say that this is a huge movement and that you have listened to your body, you've listened to yourself, you received the message and you responded, and that is tremendous. It's excellent. Congratulations! I know it is a difficult direction for you, and it's unfamiliar. But I would express to you that you have taken an excellent first step.

ANON: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: And you are feeling better?

ANON: Yeah. I had ankle surgery in January from tearing a tendon, which I probably think was just trying to, you know, I was fighting with myself, that's why I did that. That kind of exacerbated everything, that I couldn't even exercise or move at all, or hardly, for a long time – too long. So, you know, I created some extreme situations that made me know that I have to change. But now I'm in physical therapy, my ankle is improving, my motion is improving. I definitely am feeling better from getting more exercise and getting out on my bike.

And I also am really working… like, I've got people in my life, certain people, that I still feel responsible for. I make myself feel responsible for them. I just automatically go in that direction, so I'm just catching myself every time I do it – sometimes after the fact, but still catching that and changing it the next time if I have the awareness to do that. It's all this taking personal responsibility stuff.

ELIAS: And even if you catch yourself after, you're still catching yourself.

ANON: Yeah. And the person I still do it the most for is my granddaughter. You know, I LOVE her and I love spending time with her, but then other times… Well, that sometimes clouds the way for like, well, is this the right thing right now to take on whatever childcare or whatever? So I'm just kind of working with that. But I'm trying to be aware and listen to myself about whether I want to do something and whether it's best for me to do it, or if she'll be okay if I don't do it – like, you know, if she's sitting home with her dad watching TV instead of being over here with me being active, doing some other things. Sometimes that's okay if I really need to take care of me, you know?

So I'm still working with that. But… I mean, it comes up in a lot of ways. It comes up with my husband, it comes up with some close friends –


ANON: With my husband?


ANON: Like, if he wants to spend time or go on a vacation and I don't want to right then, or if he wants to spend more time together and maybe I need a little more personal time or go off and have a bike ride alone or something, and then I still feel guilty if I say, “I need to go do this.” And maybe it's because we haven't talked it out that much. Like, he takes it personally, and I feel bad that he did that. And I know that's him personalizing and me taking personal responsibility. And sometimes I'm the one personalizing. Like, I know it goes both ways. It almost feels like the same problem, which those are my two problems. Those are my two beliefs.

ELIAS: And let me say to you, it IS somewhat the same problem, and you can change that. And all that that requires is communication.

ANON: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: It's important that you share experiences with each other, but it's also important that you are communicating with each other. Therefore, talk to each other. Don't simply say, “No, I need to be alone,” or “I need to have a bike ride by myself.” TALK to him and say, “Right this moment, I feel it's important for me to have a bike ride. I need to exercise. I need to be by myself. BUT – when I come back, we can engage some activity together.”

When you don't communicate, then the other individual – whether it's him or whether it's you – DOES generally personalize, and then they don't want to do whatever they suggested before. But if you are simply expressing that few moments extra to say just a few sentences, even, to each other in relation to “Yes, I will do this with you, but first I'm going to do this.”

ANON: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: Express why. Perhaps you feel restless, or you feel some type of tension, or it might even be the opposite. You might feel lethargic and you need to move to be pumping up your energy.

But whatever it is, there's something that's pulling you in that direction, and all that you have to say is that. And in that, then the other individual understands, “It's not that she doesn't want to spend time with me; it's this other thing. And then we can spend time with each other later.” And it's a matter of not being black and white and learning how to communicate.

And if it's something that he's expressing that you're beginning to personalize, ask questions, and the more YOU do this, the more he will follow that lead. And therefore, when he begins to personalize something, or he begins to feel uncomfortable with something, then HE will eventually begin to ask questions. In that, then you avoid these situations in which there are miscommunications, misunderstanding and conflict and upset.

ANON: Mm-hm. Yeah, that's something that I do, I have been recently, and I do still need to keep working on is communicating. There's just a whole lot that I try to figure out and understand what the other person is feeling without just asking them or telling them how it seems to me, and that's just kind of like a habit.

ELIAS: Yes, it is a habit. And it's not a good one.

ANON: No. Okay.

ELIAS: Therefore, it's simply a matter of being aware, which you are, and you know, and then creating new habits: catching yourself with the old habit and setting yourself in a direction for success by implementing new habits. And those new habits are actually simpler and easier than you think; it's simply a matter of expressing one or two more sentences in explanation at times or asking questions.

ANON: Okay. All right, I’m going to work on that. (Laughs) Gonna do it.

ELIAS: Excellent.

ANON: That whole thing about communicating, it brings up an issue that was kind of on my mind the last time we talked. When my brother died – it’s almost been two years, a year and a half – and his wife, his widow… the circumstances of his death were that he had the cancer and he had had his tongue removed and was on a feeding tube, so he was really depressed and still had cancer and was going through all the treatment. And his wife asked me to stay with him so she could go see her daughter. And I was staying with him, and the day I left, I left him at home and his wife had told me it would be fine, you know, you have to leave and I’ll be back that same day so it’s okay for him to stay alone for a day, and there was no indication that it would not be okay for [my brother] to stay alone. He had a habit of putting alcohol into his feeding tube, which he had been doing all along – not in front of us, but he would go off into the garage and he always seemed to have a stash of wine or something.

So I left, and when his wife got home that evening she found him dead on the floor, and he had put… She found bottles of hard liquor in the house, although not next to him. Like, he didn’t make it obvious. So I assumed that he purposefully chose to disengage through using hard liquor by putting it into his feeding tube.

I wonder, could you confirm that for me? That’s not the main story, but just as an aside, is that what happened?


ANON: Okay. He gave me a really long hug before I left, and I felt like he was thinking, “I might not see you again.” Especially afterwards, that's what I thought. So [his wife] found him dead on the floor, and she was trying to figure out, “Well, how did he die?” And as it turned out later, she was finding all sorts of things to accuse me of, that I had bought the hard liquor for him to help him die, or that I had even given it to him to help him die, that I had stayed longer. She saw video evidence, she said, on her neighbor's Ring camera that I had stayed longer than I said, and she called the police on me and said that I had helped [him] to die. And that's not what I did.

Then later she had other things, other evidence, like she said what happened was he fell out of the bed and electrocuted himself on one of the machines that was in the room. She had a lot of differing stories about how he died but that it was really all my fault – and which I know it wasn't, and I know that she was probably just feeling terrible that he died and that he did that before she came home.

So there's that, which is the reason that I stopped talking to her, because every time that we were on the phone together she started accusing me and grilling me, so I stopped speaking with her. So there's that piece.

But before that, like before they got married… Two months before his death they got married, because she told him that she was going to leave him if he didn't marry her. And he was really sick, and I think that's why he married her, because she was taking care of him. But she didn't know that he had signed some paperwork leaving his house to my dad, so after they were married and after he died, she found out that he had signed his house over to my dad because my dad had paid it off for him, paid off the mortgage. And she was so angry that she was not going to get that house, she started accusing me of masterminding this whole villain plan of taking her house away from her. And she was putting it all over Facebook and sending all kinds of text messages to me and my dad about how evil [me] is trying to take her house away and get the money for it, get the inheritance and all that stuff.

So my dad and my brother are in a legal proceeding with her now. She's living in the house, and they're trying to either get her to pay for it or let them sell it and give her a portion. I am not speaking with her, and I dis-involved myself from the whole legal thing too because I don't really agree with everything that my dad and my brother are doing.

I think the piece that's bothering me, I know that I was personalizing all the blame that she was throwing my way, which I could see that she actually was doing a lot of the things she was blaming me for. But what I feel bad about is the lack of communication, and I keep wondering, “Is there something more I can be doing to make things better?” But then another part of me says there's nothing I should be doing. I did try to communicate both to her and to my father and my brother about what I thought was right or whatever. I communicated, and then I stepped out of it and I'm not making any legal decisions anymore, or I don't…

I think emotionally I'm still involved in it, though. And so I'm wondering, how can I let go of that and do the right thing?

ELIAS: “Doing the right thing.” First of all, it's not about doing the right thing. It's about taking care of you, that the reason that you've presented all of this to yourself, and THAT is the question: “What is it that you're presenting to yourself?” Not, “What is the right thing for me to do?”

ANON: Okay. What am I presenting to myself here?

ELIAS: What are you presenting to yourself? You're presenting precisely what you've been talking about: this entire issue about taking personal responsibility for other people and always moving in the direction of trying to “take care of” and “make better.”

ANON: Yeah.

ELIAS: What I would express to you is, first, I would ask you a question: What happened to YOU that you are taking responsibility for instead of placing the responsibility where it lies?

You don't have to answer that question now, but I would urgently urge you considerably to think about it. Because it's a matter of that would be the base of all of this, of what started this direction with you, of you taking responsibility for something.

This situation with your sister-in-law, this situation is a direct reflection of what I just asked you. What happened to YOU that you took responsibility for when it was actually someone else's responsibility? Your sister-in-law, regardless that it may be understandable that she feels she needs someone to blame, and you became her target, SHE'S responsible for that – not you.

ANON: Right. Okay.

ELIAS: In that, those are her choices and that is her expression, and it's something that she's doing TO you, but that isn't your responsibility. It's her responsibility for her actions and her choices and her behavior.

ANON: Yeah.

ELIAS: Other people can do things to you; that's not your responsibility that they've done something to you, and it's not your responsibility to fix it. It's their responsibility, to themself, to change their behavior and their expressions.

In that, I would say that what has happened with you is that you're always attempting to fix and make the situation better.

ANON: Yeah.

ELIAS: And make the other person feel better.

ANON: Yeah.

ELIAS: You can't make her feel better.

ANON: Yeah.

ELIAS: She's angry, and she's fueling that anger in relation to her interaction with your other brother and your father. But that has nothing to do with you. And in that, I would say to you very genuinely that this is her issue, regardless of whether it's understandable or not.

People do at times move in a direction of being angry when someone dies.

ANON: Yeah.

ELIAS: And people hold on to that anger for a long time. And in that, the reason that they feel angry is because they feel wounded. They feel that the person that died abandoned them and hurt them.

And in that, that is an ultimate expression of personalizing, because that's NOT what the individual that died did. But – that is the reason that some people become very angry.

But regardless of why someone is angry, they are still responsible for their own behavior, their own choices, their own expressions. They are responsible to themself for all of that, just as you are responsible to yourself for your behaviors, your choices and your expressions. And in that, what I'm expressing to you is that it's important in being responsible to you to take care of yourself – and to not simply express the acceptance of someone else's blame.

Let me say something to you very genuinely: People blame because they cannot accept some action that has happened that involves them. When they feel hurt, they blame. This is an automatic reaction that people have. When they feel hurt, when they feel wronged, they blame.

But – blame is not the fault of whoever it is that they're blaming, because in that, it is a personal expression that they are throwing outwardly because they cannot accept that expression of personalizing what someone else did; they can't accept that. Therefore, what they do is they throw it out at someone else, and they blame.

And in that, some people never move in the direction of addressing to that. Many people do, eventually. But there's literally NOTHING you can do to facilitate that action. That is something that she's obviously choosing to keep kindling by being in conflict with the other members of your family. And as long as she's continuing to kindle that fire, then she's not in a position in which she is ready to look at her own actions and to look at that blame and let it go. Some people, it takes years for them to do that.

And I would also say that your brother has not been dead that long. It's not quite two years; that's not a long time. That's not even a long time to grieve. Therefore, I would say that the best and most productive thing for you to do is precisely what you're doing: to stay out of the line of fire. She can keep firing, but it's important for you to step out of the line of fire. Don't make yourself a target by trying to help or trying to fix. All that does is make you more of a target. In that, all you're doing is hurting yourself – and I would say that you've done enough of that.

ANON: I have. Okay.

ELIAS: It's important for you to be moving in a direction of nurturing yourself, encouraging yourself to grow, and also healing yourself. And being in the line of fire or being a target is not a direction that will be healing.

ANON: Mm-hm. Okay. So in asking myself, “Why do I do this? Why do I try to make things better for others?”, I have to say it's got to come from my mom. It didn't come from my dad, it came from my mom. You know, I think it started happening before I can even remember what it was. But I know how my mother was; she was almost exactly like [my sister-in-law]. And I always said that [my brother] probably picked [my sister-in-law] because she reminded him of my mom, and in that, it was very emotionally reactive and irrational. And fun-loving – like a lot of good things, too, fun-loving and creative and whatever, but that other side could be very scary.

I was going to ask you, like, is there some trauma from when I was an infant that I do not remember where I was actually physically hurt by my mother? And I'm not saying that she purposefully did it but maybe irrationally, emotionally reactively did it in the heat of the moment?

ELIAS: I would say you already know the answer to that or you wouldn't have asked the question. I would say yes, and I would also express a confirmation that it was a reaction and that it wasn't something that was intended to be harmful but that she was being reactive.

Actually, I would say that there are many infants that suffer very similar traumas of being hurt to attempt to silence them when they're crying. And I would say that you would be one of those individuals also, that she attempted to silence you by quieting you with a pillow over your face. And she was successful in the capacity of you passing out; therefore, being unconscious.

ANON: Okay.

ELIAS: But that type of action is lodged in a small one's memory. Even though you might not have an accessible recall of it, it doesn't mean that it's not lodged there.

That creates… As I've expressed with other individuals, it creates lesions, or scar tissue, on your brain. Therefore, you have actual evidence physically of these types of trauma.

ANON: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: And in that, I would say it was very understandable for you to move in a direction of attempting to make people happy and make [inaudible] and fix it, because if you didn't, the other individual could be very scary, as you expressed.

ANON: Yeah. Well, I remember her being very scary. Like I remember being maybe 3, maybe 4 or even older, and if I was crying she would say, “Shut up or I'm going to hit you again.” Or she would slap me, or she'd be looming over me, like “Stop crying right now!” And I was incapable of stopping crying because I just was incapable of it. So probably at some point I did learn… I mean, I know I did learn to not feel and to maybe even disassociate from my body. Is that correct, too?


ANON: Yeah. Because I don't feel pain. I don't have such a low pain threshold. It takes a good amount… Like what other people would feel as pain, I don't feel it yet – or it seems that way. Everyone tells me I have a high pain threshold, and… Well, that's physical pain. That's why I started thinking, well maybe my mom, you know, like maybe she even shook me as a baby because she told me I cried all the time, probably because I was just sensitive.

ELIAS: She had little tolerance for that.

ANON: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that would be a good reason to try to be perfect! (Laughs)

ELIAS: Yes, it would! I would understand.

ANON: (Laughing) Yeah.

ELIAS: Now is not then.

ANON: Yeah.

ELIAS: And now it is important that you recognize that and that you stop moving in that direction because it's detrimental to you.

ANON: Okay.

ELIAS: And if it's detrimental to you, then it's also detrimental to the people around you.

ANON: Yeah. Well, I kind of notice like when I try to fix everything for everyone, I can get results in the moment but then it's not a very good outcome for them in the long run because then they didn't learn anything from it – you know, like they didn't learn their own lesson because I automatically made things all better in the moment. And for me, I sacrificed myself a lot of the time. You know, like I'm going in all these directions of everybody else all the time and not even knowing myself and what I want (laughs), which is probably even worse for me. I mean, …

ELIAS: It's not good for the other individuals. They're learning something, but not what you expected. They're learning either – or maybe even both – that you'll fix it, or they're learning to be resentful. Because what you think is good or better or fixing might not be what is good or better for them. (Pause) And it also shows them that you're not listening.

ANON: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Like I'm really not listening because I'm focusing on what I think is the best thing and trying to provide it right away.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANON: Even if it's advice.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANON: Yeah, I've kind of noticed that too. Because I'll have questions later about what were they really thinking or what was really going on. So I don't catch myself a lot of the time in the moment, which probably some questions would be more helpful.

ELIAS: That would definitely be very good. That's what we were discussing earlier in asking questions. Ask what the other person wants or what is supportive. That's an excellent question: “How can I be supportive?” And let them tell you – and ACCEPT what they tell you.

And in that, if they express, “I don't know” – which, generally even when a person expresses, “I don't know,” they will follow it with an answer. But if they absolutely don't, then you can follow your own question of “How can I be supportive?” with “Is what I'm doing supportive?” And that will prompt them.

ANON: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: And they will either express to you that “Yes, you are” or “No, you're not.” And if they express, “No, you're not,” – or if they hesitate, because sometimes people don't want to answer that question because it's uncomfortable and they're afraid they're going to hurt your feelings. But if they hesitate for any amount of time, you can take that as an answer.

ANON: Okay.

ELIAS: I would say that actually, you are accomplishing very well. You ARE looking at all of these expressions, all of these subjects. You ARE addressing to things with yourself, and you are considering what are more effective directions to move in. And that's excellent! Don't concern yourself with your sister-in-law. I would say she has her own difficult row to hoe and that it doesn't concern you. Don't concern yourself with her battle with your family; that also doesn't concern you. And in that, you don't need to be her whipping boy. (Elias chuckles)

ANON: (Laughs) Okay. All right.

Okay. I want to change topic, I guess, for the rest of the session.

ELIAS: Very well!

ANON: And I thank you for telling me all of that. It's just going to be more helpful in moving forward and continuing in this direction that I'm committed to now, and I appreciate it.

ELIAS: Excellent!

ANON: Okay. So, I notice that my energy changes very quickly from day to day, even within a day. I can meditate and feel really great and high; the next day I may feel way down in the dumps or, you know, like had a dream or whatever. It's like I'm very changeable that way, and also very changeable objectively. One day I'm certain I want to do this; I want to go here; I want to do that. I'll talk to people about it. And then the next day, I don't want to do that anymore. I just totally, I can't feel it anymore. You know, like, “Let's go on this vacation! Let's go do this!” I feel great about it. And then the next day I just want to stay at home, relax, enjoy the simple life, you know. The next day I'm thinking a third thing.

My energy is so changeable. Why is that? What does it mean? What am I presenting to myself here?

ELIAS: I would say that that all has very much to do with everything we've been discussing. YOU'RE changing, and because YOU'RE changing and you're not entirely certain or settled in how you're changing, you're also reflecting that in this type of behavior. That's very understandable. I would say that that will change also. That will settle, and it will move in a direction of stabilizing as you stabilize yourself in your changes.

You're moving in directions, my friend, of significant life changes, and that's somewhat unsettling. And in that, it creates a situation in which nothing seems to be entirely stable.

ANON: Right.

ELIAS: Everything is in a state of flux. Therefore, that's very understandable. One day you might be very motivated; the next day you might not be motivated at all. One part of the day you might be excited about something, and the next part of the day you might not care at all. That's all very understandable, because you yourself are in a state of flux.

ANON: Yeah. Okay. I'll just keep going and being aware.

ELIAS: I would very much encourage you to follow things that you enjoy, whatever it may be and whenever it may be, because that's another manner in which you can be taking care of YOU.

ANON: Yeah. Okay.

Let's see, another question. One day I was meditating, and it seemed like my brother who disengaged was standing next to me. I was sitting in a chair, and I just kind of like saw him in my peripheral vision: his waist, his pants, his shirt. Like it wasn't like a vision of him approaching me; it was more like I just see him standing right there. (Laughs) Was that what was happening? I mean, I was translating his energy there, or what?


ANON: Okay. And is being aware of my awareness…? It's a meditation that I do, being aware of awareness itself – is that a disassociation from reality?

ELIAS: No. No.

ANON: All right.

[The timer for the session rings]

ELIAS: I would say quite the opposite.

ANON: Okay. Because I'm aware of objective stuff, but I'm also aware of my inner awareness of the flow of attention. You know what I'm saying?


ANON: Okay. Right. I wasn't sure about that.

ELIAS: Yes. I would say that that is a part of becoming more self-aware.

ANON: Okay. All right. Because that's what I go to when I have experienced other dimensions or shifts in reality, or that's what I was doing when I saw [my brother]. It seems like a doorway.

ELIAS: Yes. I understand, and I would agree.

ANON: Okay.

ELIAS: And use it in that manner whenever you choose.

ANON: Yeah. It can be used that way, or it's just always there.

ELIAS: Yes. You can use it whatever manner you choose. But yes, you definitely can use it as a doorway.

ANON: Yeah. Okay.

All right. Well, thank you, Elias.

ELIAS: You are exceptionally welcome, my friend. I am tremendously encouraging of you, and I will be moving with you in constant support. In great love and dear friendship to you, as always, au revoir.

ANON: Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 61 minutes)

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