An Intimate Sharing of Experience in Dis-Engaging
“An Intimate Sharing of Experience in Dis-Engaging”
Friday, August 6, 2004 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael), Joanne (Gildea) and Marj (Grady)
(Elias’ arrival time is 16 seconds.)
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
MARJ: Good afternoon! We’ve missed you terribly! (Elias laughs) It’s so good to hear your voice again. We have some people here working, and it sounds like we’ve been beating drums in anticipation of your arrival.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And I shall consider this a celebration!
MARJ: Yes, definitely that. Joanne has a lot of questions for you, Elias. She’ll be here in one second.
JOANNE: I’m here. Hi Elias!
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
JOANNE: Sorry about that. First, I have some focus questions. A while ago I got some imagery about Mary Magdalene, and I was wondering if I am Mary Magdalene.
ELIAS: No, but you are known to that individual.
JOANNE: The imagery was in a dream where I saw three redheaded women. I typed that into the Internet, and it kept leading me to Mary Magdalene. I was captivated by that image in a dream. They were kind off in the distance, didn’t have anything to do with the dream itself. But I kept thinking about them, and I looked it up on the computer and it kept leading me to Mary Magdalene. So I knew her?
JOANNE: Who was I? I mean, I have no idea who I was in that scenario.
ELIAS: Another woman that is known to that individual.
JOANNE: Was her name Mary also? (Pause)
ELIAS: No, Marian.
JOANNE: The other thing was Karen Carpenter; she was a singer who died about 20 years ago. Is she a focus of mine?
JOANNE: That doesn’t surprise me. John Lennon? He was one of the Beatles.
ELIAS: Also counterpart.
JOANNE: Is my sister Laura Paul McCartney?
ELIAS: No, observing partial.
JOANNE: That’s all my focus stuff. (Elias laughs)
The thing I wanted to talk about, my dad died on June 1, and he had been working on this for a long time. On December 30, he decided to go ahead with a surgery that I didn’t think he should have. For a year before he had that surgery, he and I argued so much about the surgery and what he was creating. I didn’t want him to do it. Anyway, it was really hard.
He asked me to take him to the hospital for this surgery, and I knew what was going to happen. It was very difficult to drive him there. There was a moment in the car on the way to hospital, it was a quiet moment, when we just sort of looked at each other. We didn’t say a word to each other, and we just looked away. I knew at that point that he was asking me to help him do this, or to participate in this whole thing with him. It was like the beginning, and it was an agreement. I don’t know how else to explain it.
My job or my part of the agreement was to help him to experience everything that he wanted to experience. I don’t know if you know about this thing called living wills. Everybody wants to have a living will so that you are not put on a respirator or they don’t do all these things to you to keep you alive no matter what. Everybody is signing living wills, but my dad was very adamant about not signing. He wanted everything done, that’s what he kept saying. I felt like I was agreeing to participate in what was coming, to see that he got to have everything done. I was wondering if my impression about that is correct.
JOANNE: There were so many things that happened during that five-month period. My Dad and I had a lot of focuses together didn’t we?
JOANNE: There were so many images of me being in a hospital and him taking care of me, not necessarily as a family member but an orderly or nurse or something. I also knew that he was my child. It was weird, in the sense that while things were happening... Like I would comb his hair, and I knew that I had combed his hair a thousand times before, and it was comforting but it was upsetting.
Is this what the Shift is, when you’re in these situations and you know you made an agreement with somebody to go through something, even when you don’t agree with what they are doing, you don’t want them to do it because of your own feelings and beliefs, but you go ahead with it? You have all the feelings, and you are really aware of what they are choosing and what you are choosing, aware of the other focuses, the emotions from the other focuses, the emotions from this focus...? Did I sort of shift, just for that period of time? I mean, I am not as aware of...
ELIAS: This is an action of shifting, yes, and widening your awareness. This is an element of this shift.
JOANNE: It was amazing to feel the different things. There were times when I knew that part of the reason he was doing what he was doing was to lend me energy, which was amazing, because I could feel the energy that he was lending me. I could see how I was changing from the energy he was lending me. It was an eye-opening experience.
ELIAS: This is an aspect of lessening separation and widening your awareness in a manner in which you begin to incorporate the remembrance, which is not memory or remembering but actually BEING, and the awareness and the clarity in awareness that that being is.
JOANNE: A lot of the emotions, when I would feel them I would wonder where it was coming from. I have that time belief, and I had to remind myself that it’s all happening now...
JOANNE: ...every single thing. Then I would feel all these emotions, and it would be overwhelming at times. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. But it was also comforting to know that I wasn’t nuts, because it’s all happening now.
JOANNE: That helped a lot.
ELIAS: Therefore, it is merely a matter of moving your attention to the side and being aware of all of these other experiences that you have incorporated and that you have shared with another individual.
JOANNE: It definitely added a depth to the situation that I’ve never felt with anyone before. There have been other people in my life who have died, but I’ve never experienced it the way I experienced this.
ELIAS: And that is your evidence to yourself of how much you are widening your awareness and how you are actually shifting.
JOANNE: I was thinking is this what it’s going to be like when the Shift is complete, when you walk into a situation and all of your beliefs, say, that this is not what you want to do, not what you want to participate in, you don’t want it to happen, but you sort of take a deep breath and do it anyway with an awareness of what’s coming and you’re okay with it...
ELIAS: And the acceptance of difference.
JOANNE: That was difficult; that was very difficult. One of the things I want to say to you is acceptance of some else’s choice is not an easy thing.
ELIAS: I am aware. That is the acceptance of difference, but acceptance does not require agreement. It does not require that you like the difference, but that you recognize that differences are expressed in choices that individuals engage. You may be accepting as you incorporate an awareness and generate an allowance within yourself, which enhances that acceptance of difference. Also recognize that it may not be your preference and that you may not necessarily agree with the choice of the other individual, but regardless, you can be accepting.
JOANNE: Yes, I can see that. It was okay when I was with him — not that I didn’t try to intervene and feel that I had some control with the doctors, with the things that were going wrong, like try to catch things and point things out to the doctors and got them to do something that I thought would stop the whole thing. But at one point I realized that we were all playing this game so that Dad could have everything done.
ELIAS: I am understanding.
JOANNE: What was weird is that at each step when I would become aware of what was going on, the coincidences just boggled my mind. The timing of things, being aware of the timing and what people did and didn’t do, just so that my dad could have what he wanted. It was okay when I was with him, but it was hard when I went home.
ELIAS: But let me also express to you, within that moment in the vehicle that you experienced in that silence, what you term to be an agreement, in a manner of speaking, was, but not necessarily entirely in the manner that you perceived it. For you perceived it to be an agreement to participate to be generating all of these actions and experiences for him and that this was his wish, but in actuality, that is merely partially the agreement.
I may express to you, a stronger element of that agreement was his knowing that it was important for you to express your beliefs and not to force energy in opposition to them — therefore, the agreement to allow you to express yourself and your direction, allow you the experience of that, and therefore generate some expression of comfort within yourself that you had exhausted all possibilities.
JOANNE: Yes, there were times when things happened that I wondered whose choice it was: is this one mine or is this one his?
ELIAS: This individual’s choice was to be engaging the action of death, but in that choice, the manner in which it was expressed, the method that he chose to incorporate the choice of death was to allow you to participate in expressing your beliefs, and therefore offer you the comfort of expressing to yourself that you exhausted all possibilities and to incorporate your preference — which, in actuality, was to change the outcome, but the outcome was determined already. Regardless of what you or any other individual may have incorporated in any actions, it would not have changed the outcome, for the choice was already decided. But to allow you that comfort and to be offering you energy, there was an allowance for you to express your beliefs and to attempt to express your preference, which was allowed, and you did.
JOANNE: Yes, I can see that. I would catch one thing that was going wrong, make sure he had this medication or had that test or whatever, but I could also see that no sooner was that done when something else would happen. I knew what the outcome would be, driving him there to the hospital that day. On some level, I knew what he was asking of me; I wasn’t aware of what I was asking of him. But I know that he was trying to show me that no matter what I did or what the doctors did or what my preferences were, this was his choice.
ELIAS: Correct. It was not necessarily what he was requesting of you, but more of what he was allowing you to express.
JOANNE: I see. So he already made his choice?
JOANNE: And I asked him to let me try to change his mind?
ELIAS: To express yourself, to express your preferences — not that that would necessarily change the outcome, although the want for an alternate outcome was the motivating force. But as you have expressed, you also knew what the outcome would be, for inwardly you also knew that his decision had already been engaged and that this was his choice. In that, in that moment of agreement, what the agreement was is that he would not oppose you in allowing you to express your preferences and your beliefs, that that was acceptable. Therefore, there was an acceptance of difference expressed by both of you.
JOANNE: I’m going to be really uncomfortable with the thought that he put himself through all of that for me. I was sort of comforted...
ELIAS: Not FOR you; that was a gift, for it was a participation together, experiencing together with an acceptance, an acceptance of the differences of choices. It is not a matter of, in your terms, putting himself through any unwelcomed experience; it was a willing participation and an offering of allowance.
JOANNE: I think I lost you there.
ELIAS: You participated together; you shared the experiences. His experience and choice was to allow himself to participate with you and share, in the awareness of your appreciation of him. Your participation was to allow yourself the freedom to express your preferences and your beliefs, without forcing energy in opposition to them, and in that, also knowing that you were aware of the differences and you yourself were also accepting. Therefore, it was a willing participation in shared experience between you both.
JOANNE: He amazed me. I always thought... Well, first I want to ask, he was final focus, wasn’t he?
JOANNE: I always thought that a final focus would chose to end their life abruptly.
ELIAS: Not necessarily. The choice of death is an individual choice, and regardless of whether you are a final focus, an initiating focus or a continuing focus matters not. That does not incorporate a bearing on how you choose to be disengaging or what method you choose.
JOANNE: I guess the reason I’m bringing this up is because I thought he can’t be a final focus — look what he’s putting himself through. My initial thought was that he was afraid to die, but then watching as this all unfolded, I realized that he is final focus and he’s not afraid to die.
JOANNE: Unlike me, and I have a lot of fears, which I didn’t realize I had, about what people would do to my body and things like that. Then watching him allow certain things, I realized that he was so not afraid and so comfortable with himself and his choice that none of this really mattered to him.
JOANNE: And that was mind-boggling.
ELIAS: What mattered was the opportunity to share experience in intimacy with you.
JOANNE: Was this the same thing for my sister Laura? Because she participated in this whole thing I want to say the same way, but I won’t, because I’m sure there are things between the two of them that they wanted to share together, too.
JOANNE: But was it the same kind of thing?
ELIAS: Some similarities, but not entirely.
JOANNE: My Dad was so insistent on having his surgery before the end of 2003. Right after he had the surgery and things weren’t going very well, a baseball player, Tug McGraw, disengaged. I didn’t think anything of it at the time, but Laura, my sister, was so insistent on us not telling Dad that Tug McGraw died that I realized that Tug McGraw is a focus of my dad. She had picked up on that and did not want him to know, like that would make him die sooner or something like that. I don’t know, I guess I’m looking for a validation that Tug McGraw is a focus of my dad.
ELIAS: Yes. Correct.
JOANNE: Another thing that happened about a week or so ago, I remembered what you had told us about how the person isn’t gone, they are like in another country and you can still talk to them. So I was sitting outside and set up a chair, and I pretended he was sitting there and he and I talked... I’m sort of getting things out of order; was Ronald Reagan also a focus of my father’s?
JOANNE: Were they soul mates or really good friends?
ELIAS: In other focuses?
JOANNE: They had other focuses together?
JOANNE: Ronald Reagan died the day of my Father’s funeral, and then that whole week was Ronald Reagan’s funeral. There were military people at my dad’s funeral, and a flag was presented to my brother. It was just the wording, you know, “from the President of the United States, on behalf of a grateful nation,” but it was more “from the President of the United States” that struck me. When I talked to my dad about it later, he was trying, I guess, to tell me that they were friends. So it was just like a gift from one friend to another?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes.
JOANNE: He told me something that kind of floored me. I don’t really know about this, but he said that Nancy Reagan is a focus of mine. (Pause)
ELIAS: No, that would be an observing essence role, partial, within what you would identify as adult focus.
JOANNE: My dad also told me something about my sister, and it’s kind of personal. So I just want to think what he said, and I wonder if you could tell me if what I think he said is true. (Pause)
ELIAS: I may express to you that this is somewhat distorted.
JOANNE: So I did not hear him correctly?
ELIAS: I would express to you that it is a combination of your translation and also a distorted filtration of energy from the other individual.
Let me express to you, in this time framework you may be communicating with this individual and he may be projecting energy to you also, but in actual communications there may be a considerable expression of distortion temporarily, for the other individual is not quite familiar yet with how to be directly projecting energy. Are you understanding?
JOANNE: Yes. Because I kept thinking, Dad’s gone... I’ll phrase it differently. He’s not here in the way that you are here or that Vicki’s here or that my brother Michael is here, if that makes any sense.
JOANNE: So his energy or whatever, he hasn’t really begun to focus here.
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking. He continues to incorporate an objective perception, and that perception is generating physical imagery. Therefore, he thinks he is interacting directly, but he is not. Therefore, the energy that he is projecting moves through layers of consciousness but becomes distorted, for he is unaware yet of how to be directing that energy. For he is continuing to generate physical imagery, and therefore, he is not entirely aware that he has disengaged. This is not unusual; this occurs quite frequently with individuals.
In the moment of death, the individual is aware of that choice and is aware that they are engaging that choice. Subsequent to that moment, it is quite frequently expressed that the individual shall incorporate a forgetfulness concerning that choice. Therefore, they continue to project physical imagery in association with their objective perception, and therefore, temporarily, they continue to perceive that they are participating within physical reality, which they are not.
Eventually they begin to recognize different energies that may be projected by individuals that are continuing within physical focus and attempt to interact with the individual. They also begin to recognize that the imagery that they are projecting is predictable, and that begins to be their indicator that they are not actually directly interacting with other individuals.
JOANNE: Did he want to die alone? (Pause)
ELIAS: Clarify your question.
JOANNE: Well, a couple of weeks before he died, I found this prayer card that was from another funeral my husband had gone to, back in 1997. In that prayer, it said that this is a choice that you make alone. At the time, the dates were so similar, I was just scared that he was going to die and I didn’t pay attention to the prayer. But my dad was going through different things, moved around a lot in the hospital from rooms with roommates to a room by himself, and at the very end he was in isolation. The day that he died, I knew he was going to die and I was sitting there. It was getting harder and harder to watch him die, watch his struggle, or his physical body struggle I should say, because I don’t really believe he was consciously there or suffering; he was very busy doing something else. But I knew he was dying, and I knew in that moment I had a choice. I could stay and participate and watch him literally die, or I could leave. I chose to leave, because I couldn’t watch. Afterwards, when I read that prayer and the way they had moved him to isolation, I told myself maybe he wanted to be alone, and it wasn’t just my energy wanting to leave, it was him wanting me to leave also.
ELIAS: Correct, in association with his beliefs.
JOANNE: Oh, that helps a lot, because so many times afterwards I knew the choice I was making. I knew I could stay, I knew I could watch it and be a part of that, but my preference was not to.
ELIAS: I am understanding, and I may express to you, throughout the shared experiences you did allow yourself to express your preferences.
JOANNE: He passed away not long after I left the hospital that day. They called me on the phone and asked me what I wanted them to do, did I want them to try to bring him back or did I want them to just let him go, do nothing. I told them that I couldn’t make that choice, that what he had said to me was that he wanted everything done. So I told them that, and at the same time I felt that I didn’t know whose choice that was. Was that my choice, that they do everything to bring him back, or did he really want to experience them trying to bring him back and not being able to?
ELIAS: That was your choice, which is not...
JOANNE: Did they do anything to try to bring him back, or did they realize it was way too late and not try?
ELIAS: There was an attempt.
JOANNE: This is gonna sound dumb, but they didn’t hurt him?
JOANNE: I kind of figured that that was my choice. I just kind of tried to comfort myself with his own words that he wanted everything done.
ELIAS: I am aware, but remember, his choice also was also to allow you to express your preferences.
JOANNE: I think this is a lot deeper than I’ve even thought. I’m going to have to really think about that. Now I want to move on to his funeral, which was really different.
Well, first I kept calling his casket a coffin, and everyone kept correcting me. At the ceremony, the viewing and the words that the priest said, we didn’t do it traditionally, you might say. The family wasn’t all lined up in front of the casket; we were sort of spread out. Instead of people coming up to us and offering their condolences, as people came in, one or the other of us in the family would go up to that person and greet them and thank them for coming, like you were welcoming them into your home and to a party — well, not a party, but thanking them for coming and telling them how much we appreciated them stopping by. But it wasn’t the traditional thing where the family stood there and people came to the family.
It was just really strange, and it wasn’t till afterwards that we realized what we did. I don’t know how to form the question, but why did that happen? Why did we do that?
ELIAS: That was merely a choice in allowing yourselves to be freely expressing yourselves rather than incorporating an established method or an established ritual, allowing yourselves to express yourselves. Perhaps acknowledge yourself, my friend, for even within that expression, and not moving in a traditional expression, you were allowing yourself to express yourself freely.
JOANNE: Yes, I know I didn’t want it to be sad. We had spring flowers, pink spring flowers, not traditional funeral flowers. We had Dad’s favorite music, Frank Sinatra playing in the background, and pictures of him up everywhere. I know when I talked to people about my dad, we tried to remember funny things about the way my dad was and tried to make people laugh and tried to act like... Not that it was a joyous occasion, but not have a heavy, sad, somber thing going on. This was about my dad and who he was...
ELIAS: An expression of appreciation.
JOANNE: ...just who he was, and talking about that. It was just different. It wasn’t until afterwards that we were talking about oh my god, we didn’t stand where we were supposed to, we didn’t do any of the things we were supposed to do!
ELIAS: How freeing have you generated this experience, have you not?
JOANNE: The whole thing, I knew he was lending me energy because I was seeing how I repeatedly generated the same choice for the same reason in situations, and so it has been freeing in the sense that for the first time in my life I am seeing this and I know it’s because of him.
After going through all of this with my dad, I think it was the day after he died, I was getting in the shower and I had this feeling and heard the words in my head “and now it begins.” It just feels like what I went through with my dad is just the beginning of something else.
JOANNE: I remembered something that I told myself at times about my husband, and I was wondering if we have the same type of agreement going on.
ELIAS: In what capacity?
JOANNE: Well, you and I had talked before about the fact that...
ELIAS: I am aware.
JOANNE: He obviously hasn’t actualized that.
JOANNE: When I first gave myself that information, for some reason I kept thinking about my wedding day and the promises we made to each other. I always thought that the promises were on one level, where it was exactly what we were saying out loud, you know, “to have and to hold,” the literal thing. But when I got that information about Jim, something hit me that there were more promises going on at that moment than I realized.
JOANNE: I am wondering if the reason I can’t seem to open up the door and walk out is because we sort of agreed to do something together.
ELIAS: That is an element of choices in the moment. There are potentials, but agreements that you have engaged or promises that you have engaged are not necessarily broken dependent upon whether you continue to interact in partnership or not.
As an example, agreements or promises that you may engage with each other concerning similar situations to what you have experienced with your parent are not dependent upon whether you continue your relationship with each other as partners. Those choices are engaged in the moment. Agreements change, promises change, for you change and your wants change and your directions change. What holds you is your beliefs concerning responsibility and obligation.
JOANNE: That’s it?
ELIAS: Ah, those are quite strong beliefs!
JOANNE: I know, I know. I guess I thought I had seen some of the beliefs and I, at times, experienced the death of those beliefs...
JOANNE: ...but I thought that there must be something else, because I can seem to handle those and see them and almost be comfortable with stepping outside of them.
ELIAS: But you do not step outside of them...
JOANNE: Maybe that was the wrong terminology. I accept them but this is what I want, so even having those beliefs I can go ahead and do something different.
ELIAS: Correct, but many times those beliefs that you recognize you do not necessarily recognize all of its influences. The strength of any belief lies in its influences and how many of its influences you allow, and which influences you express in automatic responses.
You incorporate a strength in beliefs concerning responsibility and obligation and roles and family, and you incorporate an action of continuously expressing an underlying “should” — what you SHOULD do and what you SHOULD NOT do. Those “shoulds” are associated with your beliefs concerning family, roles and obligation and responsibility. They also can trigger beliefs concerning success and failure.
JOANNE: I don’t know if it’s a belief that I have, or if the impression I have about him is correct.
ELIAS: What is your impression?
JOANNE: That he is not going to be here very much longer.
ELIAS: That decision has not been engaged.
JOANNE: It’s still like it was before, that he still has a probability but he has not inserted it?
JOANNE: Every now and then I hear this voice, I don’t even remember what it was that was going on at the time, but I was standing there looking at him and I heard this voice so loud and so clear, and it was “he’s not long for this world.”
ELIAS: I may express to you that you generate this type of imagery in association with your own fear.
JOANNE: Oh. Am I going to die?
ELIAS: No, but you incorporate fear of that choice, and the strongest element of the fear is the separation and the loss.
JOANNE: I know that I fear that a lot. I get scared to death about my kids, so I realize that’s a big factor.
ELIAS: That is quite strongly influencing.
JOANNE: I feel that this whole thing with Jim, I have gotten to the point where I have no idea what to do, how to resolve it. Mom had told me you had said something like to resolve a situation do nothing?
ELIAS: In this context, I would express to you pay attention to what you are DOING, and therefore allow yourself to recognize what type of energy you are projecting and what you are creating. In paying attention to what you are doing, allow yourself to CHOOSE what you want, to choose what you want NOW, not to wait and choose in association with the choices of other individuals, not to wait for another individual to choose first and therefore dictate your choices, but allow yourself to choose what you want.
JOANNE: Well, I guess I’m going to have to think about that, because for some reason objectively I can’t seem to get there. (Sighs) I have no idea what to do.
ELIAS: Stop attempting to think, and pay attention to what you are doing. That shall allow you to recognize what you want and thusly incorporate the action to create what you want, to do it.
JOANNE: I said to Mom, if I could just... Or I don’t know, like if something would happen or...
ELIAS: This is what I am expressing to you NOT to do.
JOANNE: Don’t try to see it clearly? Just do what I want?
ELIAS: Allow yourself to pay attention to what you ARE doing and recognize that it is NOT creating what you want, and therefore allow yourself to DO what you want and create it. Do not WAIT for another individual to generate a choice to dictate your choice. This is what confuses you. You continue to wait for an event that shall occur that shall push you in one direction or another, and this is not the situation. It is a matter of what YOU want and allowing yourself to create that, and to DO it.
JOANNE: I just kind of figured something would happen, and I would have some kind of “ah-ha!” moment, or I would see something clearer, a light bulb would go on, and I’d have, I guess, the confidence or...
ELIAS: Ah, the ah-ha moment appears in paying attention to what you are doing.
JOANNE: I guess I’ll go back and try that one again, to pay attention to what I am doing and what I am not creating.
ELIAS: Correct, and what you ARE creating.
JOANNE: Please don’t say I am creating what I want! (Laughs)
ELIAS: I am not expressing that to you. Pay attention to what you ARE creating.
JOANNE: What I am creating?
JOANNE: I had this really nifty thought. You know how much I don’t understand anybody choosing to come here and experience all this, but I had this thought one day, what if this whole thing, like this whole dimension and everything, was my idea.
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, it is.
JOANNE: I kinda think that would be apropos. You know, here I am, essence, thinking that something like this would be really great. I create it and then decide I’ll send an aspect of myself into this — not liking this whole thing, REALLY not liking the whole thing, and then having to wake up one morning and realize this whole thing was my idea to begin with. I thought that would be kind of funny. (Elias chuckles)
Well, I want to thank you.
ELIAS: You are welcome, my friend.
JOANNE: Thanks for the shoulder to lean on.
ELIAS: You are welcome. I am always available.
JOANNE: I told Dad to look for you, and in one dream I thought it was the two of you there. I was wondering if it was real and that the two of you had crossed paths.
JOANNE: Did you know him? You know what I mean, had focuses with him?
JOANNE: Well, we are running out of time. Again, thank you for the shoulder. I really needed it that night.
ELIAS: You are very welcome. I shall be anticipating our next meeting, my friends. I shall be offering my energy to you in comfort and in supportiveness.
BOTH: Thank you, Elias.
ELIAS: I express to you each tremendous affection, and in friendship and fondness, au revoir.
BOTH: Bye, Elias.
Elias departs after 1 hour, 16 minutes.
©2007 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved
Copyright 2004 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.