Tuesday, April 13, 2004 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Frank (Ulra)

(Elias’ arrival time is 13 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good morning!

FRANK: Good morning! Good to talk to you again.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) And you, also!

FRANK: Yes. Well, I’ve got my usual eclectic mix of events to talk about! (Elias laughs) But I think we’ll keep up our usual practice; I’ll start out by asking you about some dreams that I had since we last talked.

ELIAS: Very well.

FRANK: First one, I was walking in the downtown area of some big city. I was walking to my office and it was raining. At a certain point, I came to a large pool of water. I either fell into it or jumped into it; I’m not sure. But when I came out, I was wearing a bathing suit, and anyways, that was that. I’m not quite sure what that one was all about, other than I remember you told me in the past that in my dream imagery, water symbolizes my movement, participation in the Shift and all that.

ELIAS: Yes, this particular imagery concerning water does involve that somewhat, but it is also symbology that you are offering yourself concerning change and how quickly and dramatically change may occur.

FRANK: And that’s all it is?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRANK: So, nothing specific, just a general note about that.

Next — and this one is kind of hard to explain since I don’t remember it too well — but anyway, there was an alligator in a pool that was inside of my house. Somehow I put it in a glass and it became very small. Then a young girl, who I think may have been my daughter, took it out and was laughing and obviously wasn’t afraid of it, yet I was sort afraid of it while she took it out.

ELIAS: And your impression?

FRANK: I don’t have... I don’t know. (Elias chuckles) I mean, obviously it sounds like some fear that I have that maybe my children don’t or something.

ELIAS: It is not necessarily concerning a fear that you incorporate and that they do not, but more concerning fear itself and offering to yourself imagery concerning fear, that it may appear to be a large issue initially. But subsequent to the initial expression of a fear — which this also is more of a generalization than a specific — in this, as that fear is recognized and examined, it becomes less of an issue and is less threatening. The imagery that you offer to yourself concerning the girl that handles the creature is imagery that you are presenting to yourself concerning how other individuals may view a fear that you incorporate and how it may appear to them to not be a fearful element at all, which offers you more information concerning what the expressed fear may be, and diminishing it to a point in which it no longer incorporates any threat.

FRANK: In other words, you’re saying the fact that somebody else isn’t afraid of it, that I sort of absorb that in some way or recognize that and it helps me to be less afraid of it.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRANK: So there’s nothing really specific about either of these.

ELIAS: No.

FRANK: Well, that actually kind of segues into something else. One of the big events that occurred since last time I talked to you is that I lost my largest client in the business that we have. It was our largest client; it was a very profitable client. Does this dream have anything to do with that?

ELIAS: Somewhat. It was not specific to that action, but generally offering you information concerning fears. Therefore, in some capacity it is associated with that experience, but it is not specific to that experience.

FRANK: It’s interesting, now that you have sort of explained what this is all about. That’s kind of what happened. I mean, this thing occurred, something that I was afraid of for a long time. I was concerned about it, but my fear diminished pretty rapidly about what would happen, and then things worked out fine after that.

ELIAS: Correct.

FRANK: Let’s talk about that. I’m interested in your explanation of why that occurred. Why did we lose this client? My guess is that at least as far as my partner goes, I kind of felt like he was becoming a bit, I don’t want to say arrogant, but maybe complacent about the way our business has been growing and almost aggravated about it because it’s meant more work. This was sort of a way to kind of throw a bucket of cold water on it and say hey, wake up and realize what’s going on here.

ELIAS: And what is your assessment of what the imagery was to you? You are correct in your assessment of the other individual.

FRANK: I think part of it was that I wanted to see him get a little bit of a wake-up call with regard to that, and I think maybe part of it was just to demonstrate to myself that I can deal with this, overcome it and go beyond it without any real difficulty.

ELIAS: Partially, and also partially offering yourself an opportunity to view what you can create and that your process is what you value in association with the business, for it is not as challenging to maintain one association as it is to be offering yourself variety.

FRANK: Oh, I see. Are you saying that I wanted to challenge myself?

ELIAS: Partially, yes.

FRANK: Yeah, you’re right. (Laughs) What happened after that was much more new business came in, and it’s like far larger in size than what we lost. Of course, I would have liked to have kept the first client and had the additional business also.

ELIAS: (Laughs) But this offers you the opportunity to view your abilities to generate and allows you to objectively appreciate and value your ability to be generating in volume. This also is somewhat associated, although not specifically, but somewhat associated with the first dream that you expressed concerning the water and the change, that change may occur dramatically and quickly, but that is not to say that it is an uncomfortable change, or that it is not a profitable change.

FRANK: It’s interesting because, again, I look at where I am compared to four or five years ago when I think I would have been crushed had that happened. I was much calmer about the whole thing, and frankly, didn’t allow myself to worry much about it. Then somehow, magically, all this new business appeared.

ELIAS: And that is precisely the point: the magical element, which is the allowance and the trust of yourself which generates effortlessness.

FRANK: Boy, that’s exactly what it was. It was effortless. I guess I’m sort of getting to the point where I’m not being concerned anymore about whether or not I sort of have objective control of the process, if you know what I mean.

ELIAS: Yes.

FRANK: It’s not that I wouldn’t like to, but it’s like what’s the difference. You know? Everything will work out.

ELIAS: (Laughs) That is your first step, genuinely moving into an expression of trusting your ability, knowing that you are creating this, and knowing in a confidence that you are actually generating these actions and these associations in relation to your business. As you continue in that trust, you shall allow yourself to open more, and in that opening, you shall be recognizing how to be objectively intentionally generating more of what you want.

FRANK: In other words, more of that objective control.

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

FRANK: Of course, in another sense I’m not sure that that would be that much fun, if you know what I mean by that.

ELIAS: I am aware. (Laughs)

FRANK: Do you agree with that?

ELIAS: I may express to you that there is the potential for that type of action to be incorporating fun in experimentation and in a playful manipulation of energy, merely in curiosity to objectively view what you may intentionally be creating. But I may also express to you that you may or may not choose eventually to be generating that type of experimentation. Or in association with yourself and your energy, you may choose not to be moving in that type of experimentation, for you do appreciate the element of surprise.

FRANK: I do, I do! (Elias chuckles) It’s interesting, now that you mention it. I mean, it seems like the more objective control you have, the more you can sort of stretch things and push the envelope.

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

FRANK: You know that’s what I like to do.

ELIAS: Yes. (Laughs)

FRANK: Well, hopefully I get there.

Next, one of the by-products of what’s been going on with all this is that our organization is having difficulty handling everything. I assume this kind of goes back to the issues that we’ve discussed before about struggle and difficulty and moving forward and all that kind of thing.

ELIAS: Partially, yes, and also partially associated with growth and responsibility. In this, it concerns beliefs that express that the more that you generate, the more responsibility you incorporate, and the more responsibility you incorporate, there is an automatic association that that generates more work. That is not true, but that is a strongly expressed belief.

FRANK: We’ll just accept that one and go on to something else.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Also, remember a key element in all of this movement that you are generating now is to not lose sight of your playfulness in association with what you are generating.

FRANK: I don’t think I have at this point, have I?

ELIAS: No.

FRANK: Now here’s another one that’s sort of interesting imagery. Even though our company is in the business of doing a form of accounting work — we basically measure how people have done financially, give them reports and all that — we’re having a great deal of difficulty creating these reports for our own company with any kind of accuracy, which is pretty interesting imagery.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Quite! This is significant imagery which is more specific, and that concerns how much easier it is to view and evaluate expressions and motivations and behaviors with other individuals. It is more challenging to be paying attention to self and generating those same types of evaluations.

FRANK: Boy, that’s obvious now that you say it.

ELIAS: That is imagery concerning projecting attention outwardly and not incorporating the attention within.

FRANK: So, are you saying this is sort of a message to myself to focus more on myself, or just it’s more difficult to focus on yourself?

ELIAS: Both. Recognize that at times, outside expressions may be distracting to the point in which you are projecting attention outwardly much more so than to self. In the lack of paying attention to self simultaneous to projecting your attention outwardly, there becomes confusion.

FRANK: Does this relate to my partner at all, the relationship between us?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRANK: Can you talk about that a little bit? I think he doesn’t care so much about that; whereas, I do.

ELIAS: But regardless of what associations he generates with any philosophy, so to speak, it matters not. The principle is the same. The distraction of the projection outside of self and paying more attention to what is being expressed in that manner than paying attention to what is being generated inside may be associated with his relationship with the business, in a manner of speaking — paying more attention to the clients, so to speak, than to what you may term to be in-house actions.

FRANK: Now let me ask you about another thing that relates to all this. Part of what’s come up over the last few months is that he’s sort of been in control of hiring the employees and setting salaries and raises and bonuses and stuff like that. One of the things that has become evident recently is that we’ve got a lot of people that we’re paying far more than what we should be. We’ve got people working very short hours and getting fairly substantial pay for that. What’s the imagery there?

ELIAS: And what is your assessment?

FRANK: I have to be honest with you and say that I haven’t really thought about it from this perspective. I mean, I’ve thought about it from the business point of view but not from the point of view of what is this imagery all about. I don’t know.

ELIAS: This is not limited to one expression or one subject. It is imagery that you are presenting to yourself partially with regard to money, trusting your ability to generate enough money and trusting yourself that it is unnecessary to concern yourself with money. But conversely, it is also imagery that you are presenting to yourself in association with what you value and how that may be expressed without generating a false persona of yourself and without devaluing your own worth.

FRANK: Let’s break it up and take that one by one, because I don’t fully understand either of those that you just said. When you say “concerns trusting my ability to generate enough money and not be concerned with money,” are you basically saying that even though we have all these people that aren’t really doing much and getting paid, I’ve been able to generate enough business that it doesn’t matter?

ELIAS: Correct. But that is one element, and there is a converse expression occurring also. What you are expressing in imagery in this scenario is a duality of subjects and directions. In the other expression, you are offering yourself imagery to express information to yourself concerning value and what you create and how you are perceived by other individuals, and the snare, so to speak, of generating a false persona of yourself, and in that, actually devaluing your own worth.

What I am expressing to you is more of an underlying expression but is potentially quite strong. In this, the false persona would be associated with yourself and with your partner in generating this image of yourselves, each, in this expression of generosity, and also in a type of expression of power in association with the other individuals, and the acknowledgment of that power in generating the sums of money that are being offered to the other individuals.

But in that false persona, what you are actually doing is devaluing yourselves and not expressing an appreciation for what you each actually value. You may value the other individuals and their potential for expressing certain quantities and qualities of productivity in association with your business, but if the other individuals are not actually generating that quantity and quality, they are not expressing the value that you appreciate.

FRANK: I understand what you’re saying, but at least for my part, I’m not pleased about this. Does that mean that I’m shifting on this issue? I see a definite, I’m not going to say split because we get along very well, we have no difficulty with that, but I certainly see things differently.

ELIAS: I am understanding. This is what you are presenting to yourself, more of an objective recognition that this type of action is not what you value and not what you want. To continue in that manner is actually generating that false persona and devaluing yourself and your preferences.

FRANK: Yeah, I kind of feel like a lot of people are riding on my back, so to speak.

ELIAS: I am understanding.

FRANK: But yet I’ve created this.

ELIAS: Correct. Many times individuals generate certain expressions or experiences to allow themselves to objectively recognize what they value and what they do not value. And remember, the manner in which you are presenting to yourself your truths and your preferences in this wave is experiential, not intellectual. Therefore, you shall first present to yourself through experience what are your preferences and what are not your preferences. Subsequently, you may or may not evaluate intellectually what you have presented to yourself. Generally speaking, you do incorporate an intellectual evaluation of what you have experienced. But the point is, the experience is offering you the information.

FRANK: I get it. It’s like here’s the lesson for the day or here’s the topic for today, are you interested in exploring this or not?

ELIAS: Quite! (Laughs)

FRANK: And then either we do or we don’t.

Let’s see, one last thing regarding our business that I want to ask. I did talk to you about this fairly recently, but I want to ask you again. We have this third individual that’s had one foot in being a partner with us but one foot out of it. He’s kind of like in-between. We may or may not bring him on board, and he may or may not want to come on board. Lately, it seems like there’s more potential movement in that direction of him joining us. Is there anything you can tell me about that?

ELIAS: And what is your impression concerning this individual or concerning what YOU are creating?

FRANK: I am definitely on the fence. In some ways I think I would like to have him as a part of it, but I guess I have some concerns or maybe suspicions as to how effective he’ll be in his role or how dedicated he’ll be to it.

ELIAS: That is more the situation: your concern in relation to the dedication, which is what generates the vacillation and not actually moving into a definitive decision. It is not necessarily the other individual that is vacillating but that you have not moved into an expression of confidence and trust in association with how the other individual shall incorporate attention and dedication with the business — in similar capacity to yourself and your partner.

FRANK: Of course, I guess even that comes down to my choice as to how dedicated and attentive he’ll be.

ELIAS: Correct.

FRANK: I gotta think about that one some. (Both laugh) Now, let me ask you this question. Okay, I guess I need to determine how attentive and dedicated he’ll be. But to the extent I do that, aren’t I focusing on him rather than me? Do you understand where I’m going with this?

ELIAS: I am understanding. Focusing upon the other individual is not the point, but focusing upon what YOU want, and evaluating what you are expressing that is generating this hesitation. And moving from that point, once you have recognized what YOU are expressing and generating the choice for yourself, it is not concerning the other individual or attempting to create the other individual’s reality.

FRANK: Okay, okay, you’ve got me! (Both laugh)

Just briefly, let’s explore that a little bit, then, in terms of what’s causing my hesitation. I mean, when I think about it, I don’t know if it’s past history with this person or what it is that’s making me fearful about this or concerned about this. Can you help me here?

ELIAS: Partially. But also there is another factor, which is quite commonly expressed and is a strong truth that you and many other individuals incorporate.

You have created this entity of this business. You and your partner have created it and have generated the successfulness of it through your nurturing of it and your movement within yourselves and your allowance and your trust. In that, it is similar to the dedication that you incorporate with your family. You and your partner, in your family, have created this unit together and incorporate the responsibility and a dedication to that unit and to the individuals that you associate as your children. You incorporate that expression of nurturing with this unit that allows its expansion. It is a very similar principle and expression in association with your business almost in a similar capacity as a child.

You have created this, and therefore, your truth is any individual that shall be incorporated in a position with your business should be expressing in similar manner to yourself. Therefore, there is an expectation that is being expressed in relation to this other individual, and you incorporate doubt as to whether this individual shall be expressing in like manner to yourself in association with the business.

Now; this is significant, for this is addressing to differences. This is not to say that another individual may not incorporate similar dedication, so to speak, to the business, but that it may be expressed in a different manner. Therefore, in your assessment, it may not necessarily appear that the other individual incorporates similar dedication, for it is not being expressed in the same manner as do you.

What is significant to evaluate in this scenario is YOUR expectations, YOUR preferences, what YOU want, and also to recognize how YOU express yourself in association with this business, and what you allow in acceptance of your partner in the business. For you are aware that each of you expresses differently. You do not incorporate, for the most part, an element of threatening-ness with regard to your partner, even though you recognize that each of you expresses your relationship with this business in different manners. But your partner was the founder with you. Therefore, you accept his role even with the incorporation of differences.

But there is less willingness to be accepting of differences with another individual that has not participated in the entire creation and growth, so to speak, of the business. In a manner of speaking, figuratively, this expression that you are incorporating is similar to the incorporation of a stepparent while both parents are continuing to participate in the family unit. It may be incorporated, but there are strong expressed beliefs concerning that type of a creation. Therefore, in actuality, it does not concern the other individual. It concerns what your beliefs are, what your preferences are, what your associations are and what your expectations are.

FRANK: Okay, I understand that. What advice do you have for me going from here with regard to this? I mean, I guess I need to determine what my preferences are. Is that what you’re saying?

ELIAS: Yes. Evaluate in the moments in which you are experiencing hesitation or twinges in relation to incorporating this other individual, what is motivating those hesitations and twinges — not what the other individual is doing but what YOU are generating within YOU.

FRANK: I think, more than anything else, it’s a fear that I will give away something of value and not get value in return. I guess, in a way, it’s a devaluation of myself.

ELIAS: And this is worthy of your attention and your allowance of yourself to evaluate what your preferences are and what YOU want.

FRANK: Well, my preference is to not devalue myself. (Laughs)

ELIAS: I am understanding. And in this time framework you are presenting yourself with considerable imagery concerning that subject.

FRANK: So you’re saying it’s very similar to the other, what we just discussed about overpaying people?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRANK: I’m not happy with the fact that we’re overpaying people; though I’m not particularly upset about it, either. I’m concerned essentially with doing the same with this individual. Really, it’s a form of over payment. What are you telling me? I just need to kind of work through this and see what comes out of it?

ELIAS: And you incorporate the ability to change.

FRANK: So changing would be moving toward the situation where the people that we pay are giving us reasonable value for what we pay them...

ELIAS: Correct.

FRANK: ...and either don’t bring in this partner, or if we do bring him in, that he gives us reasonable value for what we’ve giving him.

ELIAS: Correct.

FRANK: You’re saying it’s just a choice I need to make. It’s like, here it is, make a choice.

ELIAS: Correct. But incorporate the choice in association with what you value and in association with your preferences.

FRANK: But haven’t I just expressed my preferences?

ELIAS: Yes.

FRANK: Whereas, in the past I guess I haven’t done that.

ELIAS: You vacillate.

FRANK: Sometimes I do; sometimes I don’t. Okay, I can agree with that. (Elias chuckles) Interesting.

ELIAS: In actuality, in association with yourself, it is dependent upon how much effort and energy you perceive that you shall incorporate in association with different choices, and therefore, that is the motivation for your vacillation at times.

FRANK: Ah! Laziness! (Both laugh) Right?

ELIAS: At times! For at times you do recognize different choices that you incorporate and different directions that you may move within, and you choose the direction that may not necessarily be precisely what you want, but it is easier. (Chuckles)

FRANK: As things in general get easier for me, that becomes less of a problem.

ELIAS: Correct! (Laughs)

FRANK: So, you see, it was easier for me to create things with more ease than to work harder to get what I want.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Precisely!

FRANK: Let’s move on to an area where I’m not being lazy. (Elias laughs) Since we last talked, I’ve been exercising a lot, working out at the gym and all that sort of thing. It’s been good, I’ve enjoyed it and all that, but yet contrary to my expectation, rather than losing a little bit of weight I’ve actually been gaining weight, which I don’t understand. What imagery is going on there?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) And you incorporate no impression?

FRANK: Well, it’s kind of a muddle. I think, in some vague way it’s... Let me put it to you this way. Whenever I think about it, it occurs to me that I’m totally going about it the wrong way, I guess is the way to put it. I’m working on things that are not working, and really I should be working on it in an inward manner. Do you understand what I’m saying?

ELIAS: I am understanding.

FRANK: Then I think to myself, this is where it should be, but yet I guess I’m waiting to do it in a more easy fashion. (Chuckles) ‘Cause I’m so lazy! (Both laugh)

ELIAS: What you are expressing is somewhat missing the point. For the incorporation of generating this action of exercising physically is not necessarily to be producing an outcome. It is somewhat, but that is not the primary factor in this action. You incorporate the action for it offers you a satisfaction with yourself and offers you a time framework in which you may be concentrating your attention upon you individually, with no other distraction. You are focusing your attention upon you and your physical body and different functionings, offering yourself a time framework in which you may be incorporating an action that focuses your attention clearly upon yourself, without distraction.

What you are generating recently is a scattered-ness, focusing upon the outcome more so than the process and the value of the process, the value of incorporating an action that may be fun and fulfilling and satisfying and also generating an individual time with yourself to concentrate your attention solely upon yourself and your movement, your appreciation of yourself and your physical manifestation, almost as an incorporation similar to meditation.

This is a highly individual time and action that you are incorporating. This is what has motivated you to incorporate this particular action. But what you are doing now, or recently, has been more distracted and not allowing yourself to be appreciating of this individual process and this time framework of paying attention to yourself without distraction and generating that appreciation of yourself and of the process. You have been distracted by the outcome, and you have not been incorporating that time framework in which you are incorporating the exercising in a manner in which you are solely focusing upon yourself, and you are allowing yourself to be distracted.

FRANK: I never would have figured that one out. (Elias laughs) Naw, I shouldn’t say that! Maybe I would have. I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it and make a big deal out of it, but if my goal is to do certain things with my body in terms of maybe losing weight or being faster or something like that, that’s...

ELIAS: You accomplish that in appreciating the process.

FRANK: So in other words, I guess it comes back to everything else you’ve said: just do it, have fun, don’t worry about how it’s going or what the outcome is.

ELIAS: Correct, for you shall automatically generate the outcome that you desire in the incorporation of what type of energy you are expressing. If you are expressing an energy in which you are allowing yourself to appreciate the process, incorporate an action that is satisfying and fun. You shall automatically create the outcome that you desire.

FRANK: We’ll try that approach and see what happens.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well!

FRANK: But I may have more questions for you on that next time.

ELIAS: Very well. (Laughs)

FRANK: Our time is really short, and I did have a couple of things I did want to ask you about. My wife is having a lot of difficulty at work, particularly with co-workers. I’m just wondering if there’s anything you can tell me about that.

ELIAS: Be supportive. Do not attempt to be instructing but be supportive in your expressions with her. That shall be more of an example to her in acceptance of difference, and that shall be influencing in her allowance of herself to be generating more acceptance of difference, for the differences are what is generating the conflict.

FRANK: Next, it turns out she’s got a severe injury to her knee which is, I guess, fairly serious. Well, it’s not the end of the world, but at any rate she’s going to have surgery on it. What’s the reason for that?

ELIAS: And what is your impression?

FRANK: I think one of the things is she just needs some time off. This is going to immobilize her for a week, maybe a little bit longer, and it’s something that I think she needs to do. On her own, she can’t do it.

ELIAS: Correct, and offers her the opportunity to be incorporating a time framework in which there is little or no involvement with other individuals in which she is incorporating conflict.

FRANK: It would have been easier for me to take her on a vacation or something!

ELIAS: (Laughs) Ah, but this is HER creation.

FRANK: That’s true. (Laughs) That’s true, but I would’ve liked a trip! (Both laugh) But that’s my creation, right?

ELIAS: Correct. It was her method of engaging an action in a specific time framework that allowed her to quickly and definitively change directions. (Chuckles)

FRANK: A few weeks back I was having a lot of trouble sleeping, waking up in the middle of the night and stuff like that. Was that just too much energy or what? It seems to be better now.

ELIAS: A restlessness in association with changes.

FRANK: And now I’m not as restless with that?

ELIAS: Correct, for you have allowed yourself to objectively recognize that whatever changes occur within your environment, you incorporate the ability to manipulate the situation and continue to create in directions that you want and that are associated with your preferences.

Change, many times, for many individuals and expressed in certain manners, may be somewhat overwhelming and may also appear to individuals to be somewhat daunting. But in continuing to trust your abilities, you are experiencing many changes, but you are also not overwhelming yourself.

FRANK: Our time is up, but boy, it sure has been fun, as usual.

ELIAS: (Laughs) I shall be anticipating our next meeting and listening to your progress!

FRANK: Good. I look forward to my next report.

ELIAS: Very well. And I shall be continuing to offer playful energy with you. (Chuckles)

FRANK: Okay, any time! (Elias laughs) Give an appearance whenever you have a mind to.

ELIAS: Very well. As always, my friend, I offer to you great affection. In loving fondness, au revoir.

FRANK: Goodbye.

Elias departs after 1 hour, 6 minutes.

©2007 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved

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Copyright 2004 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.