Sunday, February 2, 1997 © 1997
Participants: Mary (Michael), Vicki (Lawrence), Ron (Olivia), Cathy (Shynla), Gail (William), Cecelia (Sari), Norm (Stephen), Reta (Dehl), Drew (Matthew), Bob (Simon), and Bob (Falon). Because there are two Bobs, Simon will be referred to as Bob 1 and Falon as Bob 2.
Elias arrives at 7:09 PM. (Time was twenty-five seconds)

ELIAS: Good evening. We continue speaking of unofficial information this evening.

All of you experience unofficial information continuously. Within this reality of this dimension that you have created, you have created a magnificently singular attention. In this, we have spoken previously of the drama that you incorporate into your existence within your species. You do this for the experience. This entire existence within this physical focus is about your experience. You have magnificently created a physical expression to be responding to stimuli which takes in information within sense data in many different ways. This is part of your experience.

You have chosen within this particular physical existence to be manifesting in a manner that is exciting. There are many different physical focuses. There are many different manifestations within different dimensions which are physically manifest. Not all of them experience the same or even similar experiences to your own. Your existence within this particular dimension is unique in that you incorporate many, many elements for your own excitement in your experience. You have created physical senses which we have spoken of as outer senses, and you have also created inner senses. These are all responding to stimuli within your environment and within the movement of consciousness continuously. Therefore, you are always being stimulated within your physical expression.

There are some existences within other dimensions which do not incorporate some of your physical senses. There are other existences that do not incorporate your emotional senses. There are some that do not incorporate your thought processes. As we have spoken previously, your thought processes are a creation relative to this physical focus; a language. In this, you have offered yourself much input to draw upon for experience and information within this particular physical dimension. Where your confusion arises is that you are so accustomed to this excitement, for this is how you have created this reality, that you tend to not be listening and paying attention to the quietness of self. Information is presented to you continuously from self. There is an open communication constant in its interaction even to your objective knowing, but it is a quiet whisper. In this, you lean to creating excitement on top of this whisper. You listen to the noisiness of your objective expression. You create confusion and conflict where there need be none, for you are accustomed to tremendous amounts of stimulation continuously. This is part of your creation. It is part of your experience, but then you look to yourselves and to each other and you express a wondering of why you cannot figure out your solutions to your situations.

It has been expressed many times throughout your ages, by many individuals speaking to you with great knowledge, that within the quietness you shall hear your answers. These are not clichés; for within the calmness of self, you shall hear what self expresses to you. This also is what we speak of in accepting belief systems. This also is part of your shift; learning to be comfortable with your own quietness.

This is not to say that you must become monks, and that you must isolate yourselves and pray continuously! (Laughter) As you are well aware, this essence is quite advocating of fun! (Grinning) But as you learn the value of lessening the extreme of excitement within confusion, you shall also offer yourself the opportunity to be listening. I shall express to you that as you begin this process, you may not understand how you are accomplishing. You may view accomplishments, and you may also then step back and express that you are wondering how this worked! You accomplish for you do not allow your taste for excitement to override your self, and you allow yourself to be listening to the quietness.

Many times, action is non-action; but you believe within your belief systems that in order to accomplish, you must be "doing something". With this belief system, many times you complicate and confuse yourselves more than necessary, for you act when the more efficient effortless motion is to not act and to allow, within a trusting, the movement to occur naturally. As you accomplish this and you offer yourselves the opportunity to view these accomplishments, eventually you shall understand that within a non-motion, in your terms a non-action, and a quietness, you are trusting. You are allowing yourself to be moving within the probabilities that are most efficient.

In this, you are not attempting to direct your objective motion into probabilities that you do not even understand, for you do not see the myriads of probabilities that you choose from within every choice you make. Therefore, in trusting you allow a smooth flow, and you shall find that within this flow you will encounter very many less rapids within your waters than you shall if you are attempting to steer the boat yourself objectively, without a course. The purpose, if you are looking for a purpose, of all of this information is that you learn more of yourself; and in this you shall be at your own helm, consciously intentionally directing your own course and not expressing wonderment of why your boat continues to move off course! I shall allow this evening a few questions! (Grinning at Norm, and we all crack up, especially Gail, who has the giggles tonight)

NORM: I know that I feel I can create my own reality, and there are certain things I want to accomplish. Somehow I got this information, maybe four or five months ago or even from earlier transcripts, that you have said that you can actually over-objectively think about something and rather than aiding it, it actually deters from the development of the reality that you want to create. So somehow, it's like a negative action. You have to know when to stop and let it effortlessly continue. That's the key then, isn't it?

ELIAS: Correct. You may continue and you may analyze and dissect to particles smaller than an electron, but you will also incorporate much effort, which is unnecessary. You may reach the same point as another, but within your time frame you shall be the tortoise!

NORM: Can you see in Region 2 some of the areas that I am trying to create?

ELIAS: Interesting question. I hold focuses of consciousness within this area of consciousness. Therefore, I hold an awareness of the activity that is occurring within this area of consciousness. It would be precise and slightly difficult to be narrowing to one individual activity within the completeness of the area of Regional Area 2, although it is possible.

NORM: For example, my creative energies that are in there, do they not bear a stamp of my essence or my focus?

ELIAS: Absolutely.

NORM: So they have a tonal quality of some type that is identified with an individual.

ELIAS: Yes.

NORM: Alright. Thank you.

ELIAS: Your energy which is of your essence contains your signature, so to speak, within every area of consciousness. It is recognized as you within all dimensions of consciousness.

NORM: Interesting. Very good.

DREW: I have a couple of questions. As I understand it, the purpose of physical experience is to manifest our intent, which is subjective and comes from our essence and is essentially the purpose of this physical manifestation, this focus. Is that correct?

ELIAS: No. The purpose of your manifestation is to experience. In this, subsequent to your choice to enter a cycle of physical manifestation for experience, you choose an intent which is coupled with individual focuses. Within essence, you hold an intent which is not necessarily aligned with physical focus.

DREW: Okay. Is it also true that the intent which we base our choices on can in some cases be choices for things such as poverty, disease, the things that we would call negative in our physical reality? That's possible. Is that correct?

ELIAS: Absolutely.

DREW: So when you talk about letting go and trusting, how can we trust that the choices and our intent is not one that will lead us into those areas which we would call negative, or things we may not want to experience in life?

ELIAS: As a result of your belief systems, you now believe, and have believed for many centuries, that certain manifestations are negative or bad. They are not. They are experiences. This, as has been stated, is your purpose, if you express a purpose for physical manifestation. In this, your choosing of each manifestation is in line with your intent and desire. Therefore, you may think objectively, as influenced by your belief systems, that you wish not to choose a severe illness. You may in actuality manifest a severe illness, for you have chosen this within the pool of probabilities in line with your intent and desire; and eventually, within your focus, you shall understand why. You may not reveal this "why" to yourself objectively until the moment of your disengagement from physical focus. You may choose to reveal this information to yourself prior to this; but all individuals do understand, at a point, why they have chosen to be creating of the probabilities that they have actualized.

You shall not manifest a serious illness or a debilitating "accident" if this is not within your pool of probabilities unless you are pulling from probabilities outside of your pool, which also will align with your desire and intent; but you shall not manifest what is not in line with your desire and intent. You may change the course of your probabilities. You may choose to be diverting within your probabilities and dramatically change aspects of your life, so to speak, but this will also be in line with your desire and intent. You may choose this for many different reasons. You may be recognizing subjectively of influences that you wish to be exerting within consciousness to be affecting of certain motions. You may enter an agreement at any given point with another essence to be helpful within their experiences, and therefore you may choose to manifest an extreme situation which shall be affecting. As I have stated, you shall not manifest what is not in line with your desire and intent. These are important elements to note; for in this, understand that these actions that you manifest are not negative. They are not right or wrong. There is no value judgment placed upon them except that through your belief systems. All experiences are valuable. All experiences you gain information from. One experience is not bad or worse than another experience. Be remembering also that you are not alone. We have spoken previously of the many you's that exist simultaneously. Therefore, you are affecting of all of the other you's, as they are all affecting of you.

DREW: Are you saying then that if our intent and our desire and our choice for this physical focus is disease, and you talk about effortlessness ... Don't fight it, it's gonna happen anyway? And just be trusting and let whatever choices we've made subjectively manifest themselves physically? And they aren't good or bad, they just are, and therefore let them happen? And be trusting of that, even if it is disease or poverty or whatever else? Don't fight it?

ELIAS: Yes. Although, (much laughter) you shall misinterpret this! For as I express "Do not be opposing of this manifestation", you may interpret this to be meaning "Allow the manifestation to continue without change"; but this may not be your intent. Your desire may be in cooperation with other essences to be manifesting of poverty, and also choosing within that creation to be moving into another creation of not poverty. This you may choose within cooperation of other essences as an inspiration, which also is an experience. The emotion of being affected by inspiration is an experience. All that you do within physical focus is experience.

There are times when you shall choose to be accepting of the manifestation. You shall know, for you shall hold a driving force within you. One shall drive you in the direction, in your way of thinking, to overcome; or one shall drive you to be continuing in the manifestation. You will not betray you!

We are presently battling very established belief systems. Whether you acknowledge within yourselves these belief systems or not, they exist. You also hold a belief system in karma. Whether you understand this term or whether you have studied this concept or not, you hold the belief system. It is a mass belief system. You believe that if you are experiencing any element that is harmful to another, this shall be to your detriment and you shall owe for this. Therefore, you shall manifest to be making payment. This is not true. It is a belief system. It reinforces your ideas of right and wrong and good and bad. It reinforces your belief systems of illness or oddities, but these are all choices. You all choose. No thing is thrust upon you. As I have stated, you may not instantaneously objectively understand your creations; but as we speak, you learn to learn your own language once again, and therefore you begin to understand your creation of your own manifestations, and the why's. We shall break.

BREAK 7:51 RESUME 8:11 (Time was ten seconds)

ELIAS: Continuing. (To Drew) You choose! (Much laugher, as this is a direct continuation of our conversation during the break) Some cosmic entity floating through the universe is not choosing your probabilities for you and issuing them to you, and you are mindlessly moving through your focus as a puppet! You choose. Each choice that you make, you have chosen. You consciously choose to step your foot out of your bed in your morning and arise. You consciously objectively choose each action that you manifest throughout your day. You may express to yourself at different moments, "Why did I choose this choice?", but you chose. There is no other person choosing for you. You are not subject to anything else.

DREW: The choices are always aligned with our subjective intent.

ELIAS: Correct.

DREW: So that intent is a choice made not objectively, but subjectively.

ELIAS: It is a cooperation. There is no division; just as you explore presently with the dream mission. We have spoken of this dream mission many times within our sessions, and you do not quite pay attention! This is an interesting endeavor. It has been stated that it may be accomplished, although it is a rare accomplishment. Therefore, you may seek to be noticing a little more.

Within your subjective activity, you move within events and action in one way. You interpret this movement and these events through imagery. In like manner, objectively you interpret your subjective information and manifest in your own symbols. Therefore, your objective expression is very much the same as your dream imagery. It is a thing in itself, and it is also a symbol. Your objective expression holds its own integrity. It is itself, but it is also a symbol of your subjective activity. It is an interpretation, as you have discovered. Correct, Lawrence?

VICKI: Yeah ...

ELIAS: Therefore, if you are learning your own language of essence, you shall also be understanding of your objective expression within physical focus. As has been stated, another does not choose for you. You objectively create the choices within physical focus to physically manifest whatever you choose, in whichever direction you choose objectively, within objective environment.

You deal with an objective world; a time framework. This is where you physically manifest. It is the same as manifesting images within your dream state. You are not walking through a dream, and your dreams are not imagination. They are reality, and this also is reality. They are different realities for they are different areas of consciousness, but they are both reality. There is no other reality which is more reality than the reality that you manifest. Those realities which you do not see also are symbols, but hold their own integrity and are a thing within themselves. They are all affecting of each other.

Within physical focus, there is a constant intermingling and movement in communication which is influencing back and forth. Subjectively, you influence from both directions. Your objective physical expression is influencing of your dream activity. Your dream activity is influencing of your objective physical expression. It is a back and forth exchange continuously of symbolic information that you have interpreted, but you are always in control.

DREW: Well, that's reassuring! (Much laughter)

NORM: Could I ask a question in regard to effortlessness and individuality or independence, and/or cooperation with other focuses or essences in the action that you desire? In other words, does effortlessness work better if I attempt to get the cooperation of others?

ELIAS: This is not necessary.

NORM: It is not necessary? But is there a synergism if you do? Politically, there could certainly be helpfulness in cooperation with other essences.

ELIAS: You will find that those individuals which trust in self and exercise the scenario of the little sapling attract other essences and other consciousness. Other individuals magnate to those which trust in self and exhibit our little sapling story. Therefore, you exhibit your effortlessness. You need not solicit the cooperation of other individuals for it shall be added to you willingly, within a magnating of like thinking and understanding within consciousness.

NORM: In addition to this, in regard to effortlessness, the two realities that we're talking about, the dream state and the awake state, can you get those two operating towards one action in the waking state? Would that help in effortlessness?

ELIAS: At your present moment within your movement, I shall suggest to you that if you are incorporating both states of consciousness simultaneously, you shall experience extreme confusion! (Grinning at Vicki, who nods vigorously to Norm) You have learned to separate your waking state from your dreaming state quite efficiently. You recognize the design of wakefulness and dreaming state. You identify quite easily between the two states of consciousness. As you merge these states of consciousness, you become disoriented. Heed this as prior information to your movement; for as you continue upon your sojourn with these sessions in your widening of consciousness, you shall approach the point of mergence, as has briefly, quite briefly, Lawrence and Michael, and you shall experience those elements that I have expressed to you many times; a threatening of self-identity, a confusion of reality, a lack of understanding, a disorientation. You shall find yourselves feeling quite strangely! This is a mergence of consciousness.

You are quite accustomed to your selectivity of attention. You are accustomed to viewing your reality within certain perspectives. As these melt away and you widen your awareness and you allow less separation of areas of consciousness, you shall become temporarily disoriented; for within physical focus you are unaccustomed to experiencing this type of existence. You have chosen within physical focus to be quite selective and very directed within your creation of physical, objective manifestations. As you move into an acceptance of consciousness without separations, your lines become distorted. There are no more definitions. Even your physical expression of your body shall function and feel different, for you shall begin to recognize that this is merely a cooperation of atoms and molecules creating cells, joined together within an accepted space arrangement, held together through the direction of consciousness; and is not, in actuality, as solid as it appears to be.

NORM: As to the dream state and the waking state; is there another state that is somewhere in between, and is that the out-of-body? Is there an out-of-body state? Is that different than the other two?

ELIAS: Now we enter into technicalities! Your dream state is an out-of-body state. What you recognize as your dream state is an interpretation of the action and events which have occurred in this out-of-body state. Therefore, you create imagery which you label as a dream. It is a translation, your own language to yourself, of your activity. You accomplish out-of-body states many, many times. Your objective in this is to be objectively consciously aware, and remembering and understanding of this action. It is not a question of how to do this or whether you do this, for you do do this continuously. Each time you experience yourself drifting, you are experiencing your out-of-body. Every time you engage your sleep state, without exception, you engage out-of-body experience. This is your communication with essence. You only do not recognize and remember the activity that you accomplish within this state. This is not an in-between state; in between waking and dreaming. Dreaming is an in-between state. It is a translation of the activity that you have engaged with an out-of-body experience. (Pause) Sari?

CELIA: Elias, you have spoken to us on other occasions of the subjective consciousness. My understanding of this is these other states of consciousness that we experience, such as the out-of-body experience, the dream state. The quiet time that you spoke of this evening, could I interpret that as a meditative state? And in this state, the voice that we hear in the quietness, the voice of our inner self, sometimes referred to as higher self, would it be the same as our essence speaking to us?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking. It is not necessary for you to engage meditation to be listening to your self within your quietness. You may choose this action if you are wishing, but it is not necessary. When I express to you to be listening to the quietness of self, I am expressing to you to be stopping the drama. I have spoken to you many times of the now. You believe yourselves to be occupying and experiencing and living within the now, but for the most part you are not. You are projected forward or you are projected backward, in your terms. You are worrying of events already occurred, or you are fretting for events about to occur. You are not paying attention to the now, and within the now moment there is the quietness; for those elements that you fret over are not within the now.

CELIA: Thank you. Then there is one more thing. If, when we exit to experience the dream state or the out-of-body experience, can we speak to our essence and ask them, or how can we control it? Because when I come back, I sometimes come back in a violent jolt that sometimes is physically uncomfortable. Is there a way that I can control this re-entry, shall we say?

ELIAS: This is quite common with many individuals. I suggest to you that it is not a question of control. It is a question of lack of control! If you are allowing yourself a trustfulness within self and a relaxation within that, you shall discontinue this jolt; but as you hold to your control, for you hold uncertainty of your connection between you and your body, viewing these as separate entities, you continue to be forcing the motion. Therefore, you experience this jolt. Many individuals experience this same physical action. It is quite common. You need only be realizing that you may be trustful of self and that you shall re-merge with your body consciousness, as this is your choice; and you need not thrust your consciousness into your body consciousness, creating a physical manifestation of a jolt to let yourself know that you have returned! (Laughter)

CELIA: Alright. Thank you. (Giggling)

BOB 2: You've talked a little about dreams tonight. In fact, lucid dreaming is something I'm pretty interested in at this point in my life. Many disciplines, actually eastern disciplines mostly, consider the waking state as actually a very lucid dream that we've become awake in. What are your thoughts on that?

ELIAS: I have expressed information of this previously. You are not walking through a dream. Oliver, early within our sessions, was misinterpreting of information offered within a session, to which he expressed a similar concept: "This waking state is the dream, and the dream state is reality." Incorrect. This is reality. This is not illusion. It is symbolism, as also is your dream imagery; but as also is your dream imagery reality, so is this waking state.

These are difficult concepts, I am understanding; for you do not view your dream state as reality. You may think you view your dream state as reality, but in actuality you differentiate. You do not move through your dream state as that area of consciousness being a reality. It is a woozy area that you may manipulate and form and change as wispy clouds, but not quite reality! It is not the same, in your thinking, as this physical objective reality. This is reality; you physically walking, feeling, sensing, thinking, objectively with eyes open, are experiencing reality. With eyes closed, lying in your bed quietly motionless, you are experiencing your dream event, which is imagination; the wanderings of the creative mind. In actuality, they are both the same in their reality. They are presented differently, for they are different languages. They are different imagery, but they are both realities.

You may liken this to yourselves occupying two different dimensions simultaneously. You occupy one dimension in consciousness which holds no time frame. You occupy another area of consciousness, dimension, which holds a time framework. You move between the two continuously. In this, you may offer yourselves more information of other dimensions that are quite unlike your own.

BOB 2: Lucid dreaming would seem, I would think, pretty solid. In fact, some people can't differentiate, from what I've heard. I've never experienced it. They can't differentiate the difference between them. They actually think they're in physical reality when they're in their lucid dream. So it seems to me that maybe it's just semantics or something that we're dealing with here. It just seems to me that this would be a solid dream, so to speak. Are you sure it's not just semantics, how we interpret things or something? It seems to me it would be in the same ball park, in other words.

ELIAS: This is a partial mergence of objective and subjective interpretation, in that the dream imagery becomes the same as the waking imagery, if you are understanding. You are correct; individuals experience confusion, to a slight degree, within this state. If allowing to move within consciousness and widen their awareness, they shall expand this experience into waking lucid dreaming. In this experience, you shall incorporate much confusion, this being what we have spoken of earlier within this evening; unofficial information, unofficial activity. As you widen your awareness and allow this action, these areas of consciousness merge. They may become indistinguishable. You may experience dream state in waking state. This indicates a movement which you might classify as "breaking through". Many individuals experience waking dreams. There are many explanations for waking dreams. Not all of these actions are a widening of awareness bleeding through to objective knowing; but as you begin to merge subjective activity into objective waking consciousness, you shall be merging these elements of self, and this is the break-through.

BOB 1: I want to ask a question. Earlier you referred to other dimensions unlike ours in terms of level of excitement, where the interpretations of reality are unlike ours. Is that correct?

ELIAS: Correct.

BOB#1: Are these dimensions places where our essence has focus?

ELIAS: Yes.

BOB 1: Then to what extent can we access those, in that most of the material I've read of TFE's are within not necessarily this physical focus but this expanded physical focus, this earth, over the time period that we've established, so that the other physical focuses that people experience are the eighteenth century, the seventeenth century, the twelfth century, whatever they are, but they don't seem to be in other dimensions. Is there communication or any sense of connection with focuses in these other dimensions? (

ELIAS: Continuously. You, through your belief systems, do not allow yourself this information. You do not believe in little green Martians! Therefore, you may not speak to them! (Grinning) You do not believe that there are, in reality, other beings or other you's, for you do not physically view, within your known universe, other beings other than such as yourself. Therefore, you do not allow this information generally to bleed through; although you may experience, within your new game, focuses, and encounter other dimensions and other existences which you may not understand or hold the ability to objectively interpret, but you may intersect with these focuses. It is not uncommon for individuals to tap other dimensional focuses. You only pay more attention to those focuses that you think you may hold the ability to document.

BOB 1: Or describe. You said that I don't believe, but it seems to me that someone participating in a TFE has given certain credence to their ability to access other focuses and is open to that. Are you saying that they're open only to a certain extent that they feel comfortable with or can conceptualize, and the things that come through that they cannot conceptualize or describe they ignore, or they obscure, or they simply deny?

ELIAS: This is possible.

BOB 1: Which?

ELIAS: All! (Laughter)

BOB 1: Yeah, I figured. I should never ask you questions like that!

ELIAS: It is dependent upon the individual and their desire, and also their fear.

BOB 1: Is information from these spheres valuable, or is it simply not particularly processable within this focus because of its foreign nature. Can it be translated?

ELIAS: Within your language and within your thought processes, some other focuses may not be translated into this focus. This is not to say that the activity is not valuable, for all action within essence is affecting of all other action. Therefore, you may be affected by another focus within another dimension that it may be valuable to you to be investigating. This is not always the case, although all focuses are affecting of all focuses. Some focuses bleed through to some other focuses.

I have expressed to you previously that within your design of manifestation, you sometimes choose to be manifesting in sequels; a continuing saga, so to speak. You do not manifest in this manner always. It is not, once again, a rule! But you may choose, within cooperation of other essences, to be manifesting in this manner. This may also include focuses within other dimensions. Therefore, to your way of thinking, those particular focuses may be influencing a little more; although they are not more influencing, for all of your focuses are equally influencing! (Grinning)

You may also contact another focus, or another focus may contact or intersect you, as has been the case previously with Elizabeth and Mattie. In this type of situation, these two focuses are directly influencing and altering of each other. All other focuses are influencing, but these two have chosen to intersect and be altering of each other, and be physically affecting consciously of each other. Therefore, any information that you choose to avail yourself of, in regard to any of your other focuses within this dimension or another, shall be valuable to you.

BOB 1: I have one other quick question, kind of off the subject, or back to the subject of lucid dreaming. I'm not sure that I would describe my dreams as lucid, but I have described them as something that I have a sense of being able to manipulate, to make them go whatever way I choose for them to go. Within that, there is a certain sense of timelessness. The question is, is the ability to create within dream state in a timeless manner the same ability that we have in waking state that we are not in as much control of? Or certainly don't feel we have control of? Because in dream state, I feel I have complete control of it, at least when I have control of it! But in waking state, I don't feel I ever have control of it. Are they the same?

ELIAS: They are the same. You don't feel that they are the same, and you do not feel that you hold the same control to manipulate, but you do. (

BOB 1: So when you talk of creating your own reality in waking state, it is identically the same as creating your own reality in dream state?

ELIAS: Essentially.

BOB 1: That's good to know. I'll let you know when I can do that!

BOB 2: I think there's a lag time though, in physical reality.

BOB 1: Well, according to Elias just now, only because we put the lag time in.

ELIAS: Correct.

BOB 1: If you can do it in dream state, you at least have a sense of what it would be like. Whether you can pull it off is another thing.

DREW: How can you have that much control objectively when there are other people?

BOB 1: There's other people in your dream state!

ELIAS: Ah, so you believe that you are alone within your dream state! You, in actuality, are merged more completely within your dream state with all of consciousness, for you do not hold barriers. Objectively, you barricade yourself and you view yourself as an individual isolated entity moving through physical space. Within dream state, you allow yourself more freedom. You interact with essences throughout consciousness within your dream state willingly. Therefore you deal, so to speak, with other individual's creations of their reality also within dream state. You manipulate efficiently, regardless.

BOB 1: Can I interject another small thing? It just occurred to me that even in dream state, when you sense that you're manipulating ... I don't know if you have a sense of controlling your dreams?

DREW: I haven't achieved that.

BOB 1: Well, I haven't achieved it, it just seems to happen. It's nothing I've worked at, it's just something I've stumbled upon. It strikes me now though, that even within dream state the manipulation is simply a matter of choice. It just seems that it occurs to you more that you have a choice. In dream state, when things are going a way you go, "No, I don't want it to go this way. I want it to go this way." And you can simultaneously make it go the other way. There's no effort in making it go the other way. Whereas in life, waking state, you still have the opportunity to make choices. They just seem as if they take more effort, but they're still simply choices.

ELIAS: Correct. Within waking state your reality appears thicker, for it is experienced within the context of a time framework. (Pause) I shall express to you, you may choose a break or discontinuation.

RETA: I'd like to ask a question if you take a break. If you don't, I'll ask it now.

ELIAS: Choose!

NORM: Let's have a break.

ELIAS: Very well.

BREAK 9:13 PM RESUME 9:41 PM (Time was one second)

Note: Elias' initial comments here are in reference to conversation held during the break, which was quite lively!

ELIAS: Continuing again! (Grinning) A "want" is a belief system! You only want what you do not have, for you are influenced by belief systems which tell you that what you have is not adequate or that your experience is not adequate. Therefore, you "want" a different experience. This is a direct influence of belief systems. If you are accepting that you are manifest for experience, and if you are trusting in your choices of probabilities and trusting of self, you eliminate want; but as you are not accepting of self and of experience, you translate into the belief system of wanting, for you translate into the belief system of "better". There is something beyond or better than what you experience presently; although within your drama you experience the illusion, for you do not allow yourself the experience of the now. You experience what you perceive to be already created or not yet created.

BOB 1: Expectation.

ELIAS: Correct. Therefore, you are projecting yourself into illusion and experiencing the drama of the illusion, whereas the reality is within the now.

RETA: Before I ask you a serious question, I want to know, were you involved in my life this week?

ELIAS: As always.

RETA: Well, I mean specific incidences.

ELIAS: You are noticing!

RETA: I'm trying to notice, and I just want to know if you were involved. And tell me what it was! (Much laughter) I'm not telling you, you tell me!

ELIAS: (Also laughing) Which does not work! Although I shall be inquiring at our next meeting if you are noticing of insidious action which shall be occurring within your future week, which is also the present now!

RETA: Is it anything similar to what happened last week?

ELIAS: No.

RETA: Okay, I'll watch. It was unusual! (Elias chuckles) The question I have is, I was listening to a tape where a woman was trying to get you to be aware of your inner senses and perhaps change things in the past. She was talking about drawing upon something that you didn't like that you did in the past or that was very bad that you did in the past, and then go back and concentrate on that and bring all the other focuses that might have been involved in that back into your concentration, and then change that by saying it wasn't right or wrong and it was okay, and allowing those other focuses to in other words maybe change their belief systems that it was not either right or wrong or okay, and therefore changing the past in a way so that maybe in the now, that wouldn't be remembered as a bad incident. Does that make sense? (Melinda?)

ELIAS: Let me explain to you that all probabilities are actualized. Therefore, when we speak of altering or changing a past within your time framework, your choice is to be intersecting, within simultaneous time, a probable self. Therefore, the action that you originally remembered has still occurred. It has not been wiped out. It has not been annihilated, for that energy has been exerted; but just as we have spoken previously of future actions or present actions and intersections of alternate selves, you may accomplish this also within past, to your way of thinking. You recall the event and focus your energy upon this past event. You also are correct that you must be incorporating the other individuals involved with this event, for they are contributing to the creation of the event. In this, you may choose to be slipping into an alternate probability.

All probabilities are actualized. Therefore you may, at any moment, choose to alter any given probability. It is all choice. Choice is not limited to what you think of as a forward motion. It is unbounded. There is no forward. It is a circle. Within this circle, you may turn to any angle and you may alter any choice or probability, and you may intersect an alternate self and recreate, to your way of thinking, an event that you view to be already created. You may accomplish this action as easily and as efficiently as you create future events, for all events are not fixed. They are not static. They also are simultaneous. There is no before and after. This is a creation only of time framework dimensions.

Time is a perception. It is not a thing in itself. It is a creation of perception that you hold to slow events. This allows you the opportunity to experience singularly, individually, and with no distortion of the event. Many physical focuses incorporate time elements for this offers you an exaggerated opportunity for experience without confusion, for you are concentrated with your attention in one direction.

VICKI: So when you have that kind of dream imagery that appears the same as objective focus, are you inserting a perception of time so that you can better view whatever it is that you're choosing to view?

ELIAS: There are different reasonings for this action. As I have expressed previously, some individuals choose to be quite objectively focused and not to be paying attention to subjective interaction. Therefore, they shall recreate imagery within dream state which is mirroring waking state. This is not always the situation. It is dependent upon your direction within your probabilities. In some situations, as you learn more of your dream state and your creation of your imagery, yes, you may intermingle your imagery of objective waking state and objective dreaming state. This offers you information that you may assimilate.

You may understand more easily if you are creating imagery that is familiar to you. You experiment with this imagery to be finding the most efficient translation of the subjective action which is occurring. Just as Michael projected within our session time period and held no objective explanation for the experience which was encountered, in this same manner you have no language to adequately translate essence subjective activity into physical focus. Also, in like manner of Source Events, as has been stated previously, they are too big to be manifest within physical focus. Therefore, you create fragments. You create mass events which are representations of elements or portions of Source Events. In like manner, you create dream imagery which is a representation and interpretation of the action which is larger, so to speak, than may be interpreted within physical focus. You, within physical focus, hold singular attention. You, within subjective activity, are interactive with all of your selves; just as we have spoken of the air particles within a room. They are all the body of the air, but they are all individual particles. So you are also.

(Firmly) You are multidimensional. You are not one singular entity. You are extremely diverse. You are multiple. Therefore, you are larger than may be translated into any singular individual physical focus. This is not to say that your creation of manifestation is not reality, for it is. Each manifestation is reality. The manifestation is not illusion.

I expressed to you earlier that you create illusion within your experience, for you project yourself outside of the now within your perception; but your reality is reality. It is not an illusion. Your dream state also is reality; but they are both symbols and interpretations, expressed realistically through imagery and through physical matter, of essence activity. (Emphatic pause)

BOB 1: Can I ask a question? Is dream activity always symbolic of or a translation of subjective activity, or can it sometimes be a review of objective activity? Is that clear?

ELIAS: Yes. This is what I have expressed earlier. It is dependent upon your motivation. There are individuals that are very objectively focused and will mirror objective reality into dream imagery. This is not to say that they do not engage subjective activity ...

BOB 1: They just don't create imagery around it.

ELIAS: Correct. They do not translate this back to objective focus.

BOB 1: And you said that the intent of that or the reason for that is because they are particularly objectively focused and somewhat resistant to subjective activity.

ELIAS: It is not a question of resistant to subjective activity, for you all move subjectively. You each choose the experience, within each individual focus, that you wish. You choose a pool of probabilities that you choose to be moving within. Each focus is one focus.

BOB 1: It seems to me, based on my own dream experience, that there are times when my dreams are more a mirror of my objective activities than other times. I guess the point being that sometimes in my dream state I'm more open to subjective activity and the dream takes on a different character than at other times, when maybe I am largely objectively focused and the dream, as you say, mirrors the fact that in my waking hours I am largely objectively focused. So does that mean that if you try to be more subjectively focused in your waking hours, if that's possible, or more open to hearing unofficial information and whatever, that in your dream state you would then mirror that or be more apt to hear subjective information? Compound question, huh?

ELIAS: I express to you that initially, yes, you shall mirror more awareness of subjective activity in allowing yourself different imagery, but this also is dependent upon your desire and your trustfulness and your amount of fear that you hold within the focus; for you may temporarily experience tremendous dream activity, creation of imagery, that seems to be suggestive of subjective activity, and you may also abruptly stop this action and revert to very objectively focused imagery or you may discontinue memory of dream action altogether, for you shall block your own movement objectively through your belief systems and your fear.

I am understanding of all of your desires for subjective movement, but you are not quite understanding of information which has been offered to you previously. You discount information offered to you that you may not wish to proceed and you may choose to be blocking yourselves, for you view this information as only words. As you experience what I express to you, you may incorporate second thoughts!

This is not to be frightening you, for the adventure that you face is magnificent. You need only conquer your fear of the unknown and allow for your own memory, which serves as great motivation; but with all journeys, as you view within your physical focus, you shall encounter your briar patches, and in these briars you shall become confused and you shall question your physically focused identity. These are temporary situations, but they do occur.

I express this as forewarning, that you shall encounter these actions. You hold belief systems with regard to rational, normal, acceptable thought processes and behavior patterns. As you deviate from these, you question yourselves. You question your own integrity. Be remembering that you are sound. You are moving into wider awarenesses of consciousness; and although you presently may not accept the lunatic, these individuals may be understanding of subjective activity much more clearly than are you.

VICKI: I'd like to ask about an experience. There were obvious parallels in physical manifestation yesterday with Mary and I which seemed to me, at the end of the day yesterday, there seemed to be a culmination effect of something that's been going on for a period of time. But I don't have a clue, a culmination of what? Can you give me any clues there?

ELIAS: I shall offer you clues. I have expressed to you that you have reversed roles, which you may objectively view quite clearly. I also expressed to you this evening that you dramatize, for your own experience, many events. Therefore, within an exchange of moving back into a reverse once again, you manifest an extreme motion. This is a symbol to you both; a signpost. You have placed this signpost in your road at this point in expression to each other that you now allow yourselves to return to your natural state, understanding that you shall incorporate a new understanding of self and also of others; for you now experience more within consciousness objectively and subjectively, within an objective knowing. There is an understanding. You have not completely assimilated all of your information as of yet, but you are beginning. The information has been presented, and you shall be understanding.

These are examples of how, within physical focus, you dramatize action. This is, within this dimension, a very sen-sa-tion-al focus of experience. This is how you have created this. Within your species, within this dimension, you choose much sensation for experience. If you are not experiencing much sensation, you are not trustful of the action. You have chosen to become quite objectively focused. Therefore, you require information to be fed to you, so to speak, objectively. In this, you create the drama, for this is what you may see and recognize. As you begin to recognize the actualization of activity which has been accomplished without the drama, you shall learn to trust within yourselves the quietness, and you shall understand that it is unnecessary to be creating of this excitement and drama continuously.

You are constantly looking for sensationalism. (To Reta) "Tell me what interaction has occurred!" This is sensational. "Let me view very large events around me. If no events are occurring, I shall create emotional events and I shall be uproarious with self!" For this also is sensational. These are not "bad". These are not wrong. These are creative. You have chosen this type of creation. You now, within this forum, look to trustfulness of self more, and more of an understanding of the reality that you create. In this, you seek to lessen the drama, and learn to listen to self within the quietness. (How did he manage to bring us back to the original discussion?)

You may express to Michael also, he has created a fine example of lack of drama, within his wondering and lack of understanding as his scenario in probabilities plays out with Kasha and also with Rudim; but in not creating of the sensationalism and the drama, and accepting within the now of the activity which occurs within the now, you move quite efficiently and effortlessly and you create much less conflict. Express well-done, and perhaps he shall acknowledge himself, and eventually understand the process of listening to the quietness and not creating the drama within the now, as you also are learning, Lawrence. I am also offering to you personally, be remembering of incorporating your natural time. You have exchanged your employment for my employment, and you incorporate no natural time with this employment either! Reincorporate this. (Pause, as Vicki mentally disagrees)

DREW: Are you taking additional questions?

ELIAS: You may.

DREW: Two weeks ago in the evening, Sunday night after I was at the last session, I had a dream of a session. Michael was channeling, and so it was either you or Michael that rapped on this table, and the sound of the knock woke me up. I heard the knock. I just wanted to know if there was anything symbolic or significant, or anything I should take away from that? Any comment about that dream?

ELIAS: (Grinning) Within Lawrence's terms, Oh Dream Interpreter, (Oh, shut up!) I express to you that this is your symbolization of activity of "catching up". Within this action, you have symbolized within your imagery a movement to a point of assimilation of information, as was to the point of Elias (knocks on the table) knocking on the table, in instruction to these individuals for helpfulness with Michael within sessions. It is a marker for you that subjectively, within consciousness, you have allowed yourself to assimilate an understanding of information previously presented even though it has not been objectively read, for it is not necessary. So, you have offered yourself a marker point that you have attained to. You need only "catch up" to the next year! (Much laughter) (

DREW: (To group) I'll have to ask you what that means later! I have one other issue that you touched on briefly and that was about wanting, and that wanting implies or indicates a belief system of not having enough, or what you have is not good enough. It implies good and bad, more and less, those kinds of things. Wanting is a very big issue for me. Is it possible to achieve a place and even desirable to achieve a place where we no longer are wanting, or is that a natural condition of our physical focus? Period. Question mark!

ELIAS: Yes, it is possible to achieve a position of not wanting, and this position would be that of acceptance. Is this desirable? This is your choice. If you choose effortlessness, yes, this is desirable. If you choose effort, then you may choose otherwise. It may not be desirable. You may attain effortlessness and acceptance, and not compromise. When you do not accept, you want; but you may accept, and be not compromised, and be fulfilling.

DREW: Is that because by accepting you are fulfilled because what you have is enough? Or, does wanting create a direction of energy?

ELIAS: Yes. DREW: And so creating a direction of energy, does that also create a momentum to energy, movement of energy?

ELIAS: All energy is within movement; but with respect to your question, it does create a direction of energy. This direction of energy may not move in the manner that you expect, for it is filtered through belief systems. There are motivations that are directing of this energy. If you are inquiring within yourself why you are wanting, then you may also identify the belief systems that are attached to this wanting, and in this you may identify the motivation in directing the energy; for the energy may not manifest in your want, for it is directed by your belief system and the motivation beneath this.

Ultimately, you recognize that there is no right, wrong, good, bad, better, worse. Ultimately, you recognize that these are belief systems. Therefore, your intent maneuvers through belief systems; but you do not always manifest physically what you want, for your intent is maneuvering through all of your belief systems. You shall manifest for your highest value fulfillment and for the value fulfillment of all other consciousness, and if you are not fulfilling your value fulfillment and the value fulfillment of consciousness, you shall discontinue your endeavor.

DREW: Immediately? Again, I'm talking in our terms of time. Is it possible to endeavor in something that's not value-fulfilling for years before terminating it, or will it end naturally, or ...

ELIAS: If you are not creating your value fulfillment within your experience within a physical focus, you shall disengage that particular focus. If you are another manifestation of energy, per se a rock, and you are not fulfilling your value fulfillment of a rock and not fulfilling a value fulfillment of consciousness in all, you shall cease to be a rock, and you shall reorganize your energy and manifest differently to be fulfilling.

DREW: So just the fact that we are physically alive, quote unquote, is an indication that we are fulfilling.

ELIAS: Yes.

DREW: Thank you.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

GAIL: I have a question. Can you tell me what the belief system is that I wasn't accepting objectively that my subjective wanted me to hold?

ELIAS: Within which situation? GAIL: This last one with the bladder and kidney infection.

ELIAS: (Accessing) You still hold, to an extent, a separation of self; a distinguishment. You are still holding a belief system of orange sections! You are attempting, within your "trying", to be battling of this. You are incorporating effort to be pushing against this belief system. This is not accomplishing. Therefore, you are expressing, as I have stated, "Hold this for me."

GAIL: Well, can you give me any suggestions or helpfulness to view it differently? I hear myself battling, but I can't figure out where to go. It seems like every time I try something, I come up against a wall.

ELIAS: This is difficult for you. You incorporate confusion for I express to you that there are no sections, that there are no parts, that you are one self; but I also express to you, reinforcing past experiences, that you are multitudes. Therefore, you incorporate confusion with these two aspects. You have chosen within this manifestation to be examining of the ability to be physically separating aspects of self; not all aspects of self, but an example. Understand that all of these are one. They are not individuals. They are not this self and that self. They are all one.

GAIL: Very much like our past self and future self is all one?

ELIAS: Correct.

GAIL: Now, I've told myself that.

ELIAS: These are difficult concepts to be incorporating as reality, and you may incorporate a little more difficulty, for you have physically offered yourself the example of experience of separating more. All of the aspects of you are of one ...

GAIL: I can see that and conceptually think that, but actualizing it, I can't seem to do.

ELIAS: For you continue to pursue separating. This is familiar. Therefore, and I express to you that you are aware of this already, it is as a separation. You have chosen to incorporate a different set, so to speak, of probabilities. You have chosen to move within a different alternate self throughout this element of this particular focus; but within this transitional period, it is as you are expressing "Very well" to what you have known. Therefore, you hold to this, as it is familiar. In this, realize that here is your indication that you in actuality know, there is no right or wrong, good or bad. Therefore, regardless of your belief systems of actions that may appear negative or bad, you hold to them ... for they are not bad. They are experiences, and they are familiar. Each of you faces the same journey, venturing into what you now think of as uncharted territory; unfamiliar; and within this, you hold fears of this unknown country. Allow yourself the reassurance that this unknown country is welcoming. You reinforce your familiarity in holding by continuing within your endeavors in focusing upon separations.

GAIL: I don't know how not to.

ELIAS: You actualize what you concentrate upon. As you concentrate upon separations you shall be creating of this, and you shall not allow yourself to move to your unfamiliar country.

GAIL: Okay. I understand a little better. Thank you.

ELIAS: You are welcome. I shall be discontinuing for this evening as you have engaged much of your questioning, and I shall affectionately bid you all a very fond au revoir!

Elias departs at 10:51 PM.

FOOTNOTES:

(1) Unbeknownst to Bob, some of us have experienced other-dimensional focuses in a TFE. Ron's experience was probably the most unusual, in that it was of a type of crystalline rock form. He had considerable difficulty translating the experience, but was able to answer quite a few questions after being given the suggestion that he had the ability to translate.

(2) This is the first time I've heard Elias use the word "don't". He rarely uses contractions; in my memory, one other time.

(3) This is actually quite interesting. Last year, Elias instructed us to knock on the table three times if his verbalization stopped for a period of time. This action was to be helpful in "bringing Mary back", and was only necessary once. Normally, there is no issue with bringing Mary back, but this particular time had to do with an alignment in vibrational tone with other essences incorporated with this phenomenon. (Or something like that!) It appears that Drew has connected with this singular event to be communicating to himself where he is with his assimilation of this material, regardless of the fact that he hasn't read the transcripts. Interesting!

© 1997 Vicki Pendley/Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved

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Copyright 1997 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.