Thursday, September 25, 2003 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Frank (Ulra)
Elias arrives at 5:07 AM. (Arrival time is 20 seconds.)
ELIAS: Good morning!
FRANK: Good morning! Nice to talk to you again! (Elias laughs) I’ve really been looking forward to this session. So let’s see, I guess our new rule is to start with some positive event. It’s sometimes hard to think of, but I guess what I would say is I just completed an exceptionally good baseball season, so I was very happy about that.
ELIAS: Ah, incorporating satisfaction AND fun!
FRANK: Yes. That’s something we talked about. Plus, I remember about a year ago that I wasn’t having fun, and you said that I could eventually do it, and you were certainly accurate in that.
ELIAS: Ha ha ha! Allowing yourself more freedom.
FRANK: Yes, absolutely. To tell you the truth, I’m kind of amazed at myself, and that doesn’t happen too often. So there’s the good news today!
ELIAS: Congratulations!
FRANK: Thank you very much. I’d like to start by talking about a couple of truths that I’ve had.
ELIAS: Very well.
FRANK: This was about a week ago. I had a dream that I had left my convertible car outside in the rain and the insides got wet, and then the car was ruined, but not really ruined. Anyway, that was the dream. I’m trying to figure out what that was about. Before you ask me my impression, I guess what I would say is that in the objective world that’s sort of a fear I have. I do leave the car out a lot with the top down and don’t worry too much about it getting caught in the rain, but occasionally I do, sort of like a latent fear I have. I presume that the dream deals with some latent fear that I have.
ELIAS: Actually, the imagery that you have presented to yourself concerns value and how you are responsive to different expressions within your focus that you value, and whether you allow yourself to trust what you value and to trust yourself with what you value.
FRANK: Would you elaborate a little more on that, especially the last part about do I trust what I value?
ELIAS: The vehicle is an example, and in this, it is a presentment to yourself of an object rather than an individual, for that is in your terms a safer expression to present to yourself as an example.
Now; in this, you value the vehicle and you partially trust yourself in valuing that vehicle and not generating excessive worry concerning it, but you also incorporate some fear that there is a potential that it may become damaged if you are not responsible with it. These are strong beliefs, and in this imagery you are presenting to yourself this subject matter of value and whether you trust your ability to generate holding some manifestation in value but trusting yourself that you need not be concerned with it.
This is interesting imagery that you have presented to yourself, for this applies to individuals also, in valuing your relationship with other individuals but trusting yourself and not incorporating responsibility for other individuals to protect them from damage.
FRANK: So that’s a part of me that (inaudible)?
ELIAS: Somewhat. Not as intensely as you have pastly, for you are allowing yourself considerable movement in that direction. You present this imagery to yourself as a reminder to be trusting yourself, and that it is unnecessary, but continues to be expressed within you, this personal responsibility for other individuals and different manifestations within your focus, which extends also in association with your business.
FRANK: I’ve had some fears lately that have popped up about that. Is this because on the business side I’ve had some fears lately that have come up?
ELIAS: Yes, and this imagery is reflective of that.
FRANK: As these fears have popped up lately, I feel like I’ve dealt with them pretty effectively just by basically being relaxed and confident and what you call trusting.
ELIAS: Correct.
FRANK: It’s just that things have been coming up lately, and a while back they weren’t coming up at all.
ELIAS: Correct. Which is significant, for this allows you the opportunity to recognize that you are creating in the moment and that you may have been trusting and accepting in similar situations previously, but this is not to say that that is solidified, so to speak, and that once you have addressed to some belief that it disappears or that it is eliminated. It is not. It continues to be expressed. It is a matter of how you choose to be addressing to it or expressing it in each situation and in each moment.
FRANK: It seems like we’ve discussed this before, but let me ask you again. Clearly, objectively I didn’t understand what the timing was trying to communicate to me. Had you and I not talked about it, would I have gotten the point anyway? Subjectively would I have gotten the message?
ELIAS: That is speculation, and in that, it is a moot point, for you ARE interacting with myself. This is an aspect of your method of clarifying the information that you offer to yourself. You create generating this interaction with myself in your process. I am merely another element in your process in how you offer yourself information and how you clarify that information to yourself.
FRANK: Continuing along that line, I had another dream where — and I must say, a lot of this was fuzzy at this stage — I had another dream where someone gave me a business card. As I recall, there were two people who were trying to get me to give it to them. I resisted doing that, but in this dream I felt that eventually I might give it to one of them. Actually, I think this might be a pretty easy one. What I think this has to do with is there are two people who are trying to get me to play in a baseball tournament in the fall, and I think that the dream revolved around that.
ELIAS: Yes. You are correct.
FRANK: Maybe you can give me some advice on that. I’m trying to decide what to do. What I’m thinking is I’m sort of inclined to do it, because certain parts seem like it would be fun, but overall I’m probably not that interested. One of the main reasons I think I should do it is that other people are encouraging me to do this; almost everyone is encouraging me to do this.
ELIAS: And my suggestion to you as always is to listen to yourself and to follow what YOU want. Pay attention to what you are expressing to yourself and allow yourself the freedom to direct yourself and express what YOU want, rather than complying with the dictates or the expectations of other individuals.
If you want to be engaging this activity for it is your preference and it is an avenue in which you perceive that you shall be expressing enjoyment and fun and playfulness, I am encouraging you to engage that; but if you are engaging an action to be compliant with other individuals and if that is your motivation, my suggestion to you is to listen to yourself and not allow yourself to succumb to the dictates of other individuals.
FRANK: Well, actually I don’t think it’s as simple as that. I guess the way I would describe is that I think it would be enjoyable, the actual activity, but everything else surrounding it, getting on a plane, staying in a hotel and hanging around in between, I see as something I don’t want. But the actual activity would be a lot of fun.
ELIAS: But these are all components, and in that, evaluate what is more valuable to you. Many times individuals may be evaluating a particular event and whether they may engage a particular event or not, and the event itself may be appealing but the other components that may be expressed surrounding the event may not necessarily be appealing. In this, it is significant to genuinely evaluate what you want and what your preferences are. For if you engage the event and are not paying attention to your own communications concerning the other components surrounding the event, and you force yourself to move in a direction only viewing the outcome rather than the process, the outcome becomes disappointing, for the process influences how you perceive the event itself. Are you understanding?
FRANK: And I think I am paying more attention to that. That’s the reason for the dilemma. Well, let me ask you another question. Is that the reason why, I’d say it was a week ago, that after a game I felt horrible for three or four days. My body felt like a wreck. Is there a message to myself about what would happen if I went down there?
ELIAS: Yes.
FRANK: I kind of assumed that, too.
ELIAS: This is a significant example of listening to your own messages.
FRANK: Well, that’s good! There were messages there and I got ‘em!
ELIAS: And I shall congratulate you once again.
FRANK: Thank you. Things are getting a little easier. I’ll tell you what, as long as we’re on the baseball subject, overall I had a great season. I was very surprised at myself and pleased about it. Except for one game, where I had a very bad game — it was the only one of the year — and after that my mind was churning away, what was the reason, what was I trying to tell myself. I never did get to the bottom of that, and I could use your help here.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) I may express to you, this imagery, in actuality, is quite simple. This is associated with beliefs concerning success, and the expressed belief is that with any success there must also be some setbacks, that success is not achieved without its occasional pitfall.
FRANK: Right, which clearly is a belief that I have.
ELIAS: Correct.
FRANK: Now, let’s come to our final dream. You’re gonna like this one, because it involves dream imagery and two pieces of objective imagery. Since you and I have spoken, two things have happened. Number one, I got stung by a bee when I was near a nest of bees outside. I was spraying some bee killer into it and a bee came up and stung me on the hand. Number two, and more significantly, we have bees in our basement, which is really interesting. Bees have built a nest in the wall in the basement, so we have bees in our basement. A few of them fly around, but mostly there are these dead ones lying on the floor. They’re either dead or they’re weak and just barely sort of move.
My take on that is that the bees represent beliefs that I view as negative or dangerous. What this was showing me was that most of them are pretty weak but some are still, at least in my mind, kind of tough.
ELIAS: Correct, and also that if you are struggling against them, they incorporate the potential to be somewhat dangerous. (Chuckles)
FRANK: Pretty good imagery, huh?
ELIAS: (Laughs) And you have offered yourself quite an accurate translation of imagery that you have presented to yourself.
FRANK: I guess it’s pretty obvious. The dream along with these two things that happened objectively, was that part of one big message to myself?
ELIAS: Yes. Remember, the objective and the subjective move in harmony. Therefore, what one is generating the other is generating also. In this, at times the objective imagery may appear to be more abstract and therefore somewhat more confusing to interpret, but at times you present imagery to yourself in your translation in dreams that is quite similar in the actual imagery itself to what you are generating within your waking state. In this, you choose, at times, very similar imagery in both dreams and your objective waking state to emphasize certain points to yourself.
FRANK: A bee sting will do that!
ELIAS: But I may also express to you that, as always, you do choose interesting imagery which is somewhat amusing in gaining your attention!
FRANK: Let me ask you about the other part of this. It was interesting, because the part about the bees in the basement, they were confined to a very certain area, which would be in an area that wasn’t used very much and so it really didn’t matter, which I found interesting. This whole imagery was much more significant to my wife than it was to me, because again, as I’m going through it, I’m thinking to myself there’s a message here, what’s the message, and frankly it was pretty obvious; but to her, it was more significant and she participated in this with me. What was the imagery to her, or what was her reason for participating in this?
ELIAS: A presentment of threat and her responsiveness to what she perceives to be threatening expressions or situations.
FRANK: What do you mean by responsiveness?
ELIAS: It has been a presentment as one example of how she more extremely responds to the expression of threateningness.
Now; I may express to you that she has not quite received her own message yet. But it is a significant presentment, for it also is symbolic imagery concerning differences and the threat that differences present also.
FRANK: You mean our different reactions?
ELIAS: No. You presented to yourself imagery of differences, and she presented to herself imagery of differences and how differences are threatening, and that was the underlying message with her. With her objectively, surfacely, it was concerning the general expression of threats and how she is responsive to any situation or expression that she considers to be threatening. Underlying it was concerning the subject of differences and how they are threatening, and attempting to move her attention to address to this issue of how differences are threatening to her. You presented to yourself an example of differences and an example to yourself of how those differences are not as threatening any longer as they may have been previously.
FRANK: Meaning the differences in how we react?
ELIAS: Yes, and also difference in general, which even the bees themselves were an element of. They also were a factor of the difference in the behaviors or the conditions of the bees in different situations.
FRANK: My children almost seemed oblivious to the whole situation. So they just chose not to participate, they had no interest in the (inaudible).
ELIAS: Correct.
FRANK: Now that I got it, I figured out the message, is it fair to say that that prevented more intrusive demonstrations?
ELIAS: Yes.
FRANK: So I don’t have to run my car into a tree or something like that?
ELIAS: (Laughs) Not unless you are choosing that experience!
FRANK: I don’t think I’m going to choose that!
What I wanted to talk to you about next is something that we’ve talked about a couple of times in the past, and that is how to go with the main business that I have. You had said previously that the reason for the company not gaining a lot, doing a lot of business, was I’m not putting in enough effort or I’m too lazy or things of that nature. Could you please address that in general and also specifically the concept of if I haven’t expended enough effort, that seems to be the belief that (inaudible).
ELIAS: This is correct.
Now; express to myself what is your assessment of this situation and of yourself, and what is your impression concerning your direction with this?
FRANK: I guess that certainly up until now, maybe not even now, I probably haven’t even wanted it to get that much bigger. To be really honest about it, it’s going well and I’m doing well and I’m pretty content with how it’s going. I guess when you get down to the heart of it, that’s probably what it is.
ELIAS: And now?
FRANK: Well, now I’m not sure. Maybe I’m still in the same place. (Elias laughs) To the extent that I want it to get larger, it’s probably more out of fear that if it doesn’t get larger it’ll get smaller; in other words, it’ll either go up or down but it won’t stay stagnant, and the best way to prevent things from falling apart is building them bigger. I guess that’s what’s going on.
ELIAS: Ah, now this is significant, that you express an identification of what you believe in relation to the business, that if it is not growing larger or growing smaller, it shall be stagnant. What are you expressing in this?
FRANK: I’m not sure, but I’d like to add one more thing to my motivation here.
ELIAS: Very well.
FRANK: That is that I believe that the business has the potential to, at some point not too far down the road, allow me to retire and not need to think about where I’m going to earn my living. I could sell it to someone and retire.
ELIAS: I am understanding.
FRANK: That’s the other side of the motivation, the non-fear side, the positive side, so maybe you can throw that in there. Coming back to your question about what am I expressing when I’m saying that about being stagnant, well, I don’t know. I mean, I guess, it’s a belief that things don’t stay stagnant. Things are always changing, and if you’re not moving forward, you’re probably moving backwards.
ELIAS: But in this, there is also an unrest in being comfortable, that in that expression of comfort there are judgments concerning a lack of movement. In this, let me express to you, you may be generating comfort and continue to generate movement. You are continuing to create; you are merely moving in an expression of comfortableness. That suggests within beliefs that the reason that you associate that with stagnation is that you are not continuing to produce more, and that is the expectation.
FRANK: Can you maybe elaborate on that or go through it again? I’m not sure I get where you’re going with that.
ELIAS: The expression of effortlessness is unfamiliar, but you have moved to a point in which you are expressing more and more of that effortlessness and that is what produces the comfort. But you also are suspicious of yourself that this is producing laziness, and you generate a judgment upon that expression. In actuality, it matters not. You may be expressing laziness and that may be an evidence of your comfort in what you are producing now and what you are generating in less effort than you have expressed previously.
But you continue to express a judgment upon that association, and this is what you move into with the identification of stagnation. Therefore, you attempt to motivate yourself to generate differently, and you express, in conjunction and supportiveness of your judgment of your comfort, that if you are not generating more, you shall slip into less. That is an element that you express to motivate yourself to generate more.
FRANK: I guess what you’re really saying is that all this time I’ve been working to get to the point where things will come easily, and now that things are coming easily, I’m not happy about that.
ELIAS: Precisely, and now you are struggling with the ease. (Laughs with Frank) You generate what you want and once you accomplish what you want, you judge that. You are correct. It is quite humorous!
FRANK: So the upshot of all that is that I should not worry about it and keep rolling along.
ELIAS: And allow yourself to move in ease.
FRANK: Well, that’s good. You see, that’s why I need these talks every now and then. (Elias laughs)
Let’s talk about some other imagery that’s about to occur for me. As of July, I was working out of my home and I’m very happy about that; I’m very comfortable with that. But I’m about to move into an office, an actual physical office separate from my home, which I have very mixed feelings about. Maybe you can help me to understand the reason for this.
ELIAS: And what communications you are offering yourself?
FRANK: I don’t know. I honestly don’t know.
ELIAS: What do you feel?
FRANK: I kind of have mixed emotions. On the one hand, it’s kind of exciting. It’s new and different, and you know how I am, I like having things be different. On the other hand, I’m pretty happy and comfortable here where I’m at...
ELIAS: Precisely.
FRANK: ...and from that perspective, I’m definitely not looking forward to this new set-up, although it’s my intention to maybe spend time here, spend a little time there.
The reasons for getting the office are the business is growing and I need to bring in additional people, and the other reason is that occasionally we have customers who want to visit and I can’t have them come to my home. I need an objective outside location for them to go to.
ELIAS: Let me express to you, you are presenting to yourself communications concerning viewing choices and changes in black and white terms, in either/or, that there is an association that once you generate a choice you are bound to that, and that you may not change the choice once it is enacted — which is not true, but nonetheless it is a strong association.
In this, you are presenting to yourself two expressions that are your preferences both, but you are viewing it in rigid terms and expressing this black and white. You present to yourself your comfort in what you are generating now and also your excitement in change, but the element of the black and white is that you may create only one or the other and that you must choose between the two. You must choose between the comfort or the excitement, and that generates the confusion, for that is the black and whiteness of this situation rather than allowing yourself the ease of creating your own freedom and flexibility to express both.
Although you do generate thinking concerning continuing to incorporate time in your home, there is an underlying anticipation that you will automatically not do that. That is creating an expectation and that is also what is generating this confusion or what you term to be mixed messages, but in actuality you are not generating mixed messages. You are offering yourself one message concerning allowing yourself to generate a flexibility, to allow yourself to express your freedom in comfort and not express that rigidity, that once you incorporate this other space that you shall automatically forfeit your comfort.
FRANK: I can see that. You’re right, I have had these thoughts but didn’t really accept it down deep about being able to operate both ways.
ELIAS: Correct.
FRANK: And I’m sure that this has applications to lots of other aspects of my life.
ELIAS: Correct. This also is associated with how we began this conversation and your imagery to yourself in being responsible for other individuals and trusting yourself in what you value, not moving in an expression of control. You may...
FRANK: What do you mean by that last statement about not moving in an expression of control?
ELIAS: You are anticipating incorporating other individuals in relation to your business, and in that, there is an underlying element of control in association with the other individuals that you anticipate incorporating, directing, and in this assuming personal responsibility for the actions or the directing of the other individuals, rather than trusting what you value and trusting yourself and allowing yourself to continue to express your flexibility, trusting that in that flexibility you shall not compromise what you value in your business.
FRANK: I understand. That’s a good point and that’s been a concern also. That’s a great segue into the next thing I want to ask you about.
About a month or six weeks ago, we offered a position in our company to an individual that we were very hopeful would take the position with us, but he decided not to. Now, did I create that because of this lack of trust?
ELIAS: Yes, and also timing, for this also involved an element of timing and your readiness.
FRANK: In other words, at that particular time I wasn’t ready for it.
ELIAS: Correct.
FRANK: Why wasn’t I ready? Just because of these concepts that we’re talking about now that I hadn’t assimilated?
ELIAS: Yes.
FRANK: I feel like I’m more ready now, but...
ELIAS: Yes, and this the reason that we are engaging this conversation. (Chuckles)
FRANK: I’m not sure we’ll get much farther with this today, but I do at some point want to come back to the issue of trust and my value judgments. I’m not sure I totally get it, so hopefully next time we can talk more about that.
ELIAS: Very well!
FRANK: We have a little bit of time left. I have the other business that had been doing poorly but seems to be recovering at this point. Anything to add there? It’s sort of going along.
ELIAS: This is being generated in relation to your allowance of yourself to not be forcing energy with this scenario and allowing yourself to express more of a relaxed energy and not be pushing yourself. You have become more accepting and less tense in association with that business, and therefore, you also allow yourself to generate more.
FRANK: That’s for sure. I don’t really devote much objective energy to it one way or the other, although I do keep my eye on it. (Elias laughs) At some point I want to try to rebuild it, just to see if I can do it, as much as anything else.
ELIAS: As a challenge!
FRANK: Exactly, yes.
ELIAS: And that generates a much different energy, my friend. In that, you express fertile ground for successfulness, for you are not forcing your energy and concerning yourself with it and generating expectations, but rather turning and reconfiguring your energy and generating a different perception, therefore allowing yourself to be more playful with it and generating a curiosity as to your abilities rather than a force.
FRANK: I can understand that. The last thing here that I have, and we’ll probably need to talk about this more next time, but here we are and it’s almost October, and I recall, at one point a few months back, we had discussed how I feel less freedom as the seasons change to this time of year, how I feel more constricted. That’s my association with the seasons and obviously it doesn’t have to be that way.
Can you give me any advice or thoughts on that, how I can deal with that? In my perspective, as it gets cold out, you are more restricted because you can’t just go out and do things. It’s cold out there and I don’t like the cold!
ELIAS: (Chuckles) And this offers you an opportunity to express your creativity. If you do not wish to be generating movement outside for you do not prefer the conditions of the weather, engage your creativity and your communication of imagination and generate different expressions than those that are familiar to you inside, which is also a type of imagery that you are presenting to yourself now in relation to what we have discussed this year and different expressions that you have been noticing in patterns that you have created previously.
But you have generated considerable movement in this time framework and have allowed yourself to be expressing much more familiarity with yourself and much more clarity with yourself. In this, now engage your creativity and generate fun and playfulness in new expressions that may be expressed within the space of inside rather than outside.
FRANK: Of course, that’s the initial problem, in terms of my not wanting to be outside.
ELIAS: For that is a natural expression, is it not? This is also, as I have expressed, of your attention and your natural movement in expressing outwardly.
FRANK: In other words, you’re saying doing things outside is similar to my tendency to create some other expressions.
ELIAS: Yes.
FRANK: One last goofy little thing here — for some reason, yesterday when I got up I just felt like singing, singing in the shower and that sort of thing. What was that?
ELIAS: An expression that you generate in playfulness and allowance and appreciation! Ha ha ha! Perhaps you shall allow yourself more of these expressions of freedom.
FRANK: Actually, speaking of doing things indoors, it occurs to me that I’ve had this latent urge to play the piano.
ELIAS: And that may be quite fun and a different type of entertainment than what you generate outside.
FRANK: I think the thing that’s holding me back is very often I think it will be difficult, so I don’t even start.
ELIAS: Correct.
FRANK: I’m starting in the direction of when faced with something like that, just to do it, and I’m finding it’s not as difficult. But I think that may be the thing that’s holding me back.
ELIAS: Yes, you are correct, and in this, remind yourself that if you are allowing yourself to express this flexibility, allowing yourself to relax and engaging these actions in fun rather than in expectation of perfection, you shall generate much more of an ease and also much more of an allowance of yourself.
FRANK: Are you speaking in other areas also?
ELIAS: Yes.
FRANK: As always, I thank you. It’s always a lot of fun to talk to you and so very wonderful.
ELIAS: Ha ha! You are very welcome, my friend, and I may express to you as always, it is entertaining! (Laughs)
FRANK: (Laughs) I’m glad I can be the Bob Hope of the ether!
ELIAS: (Laughs) I express my affection to you, my friend, as always, and I anticipate our next meeting in an expression of fun.
FRANK: Thank you very much.
ELIAS: As always, I offer my energy to you in supportiveness. To you in playfulness, au revoir.
FRANK: Good-bye.
Elias departs at 6:12 AM.
©2006 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved
Copyright 2003 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.