Friday, May 17, 2002 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Barbara (Lezel)
Elias arrives at 11:09 AM. (Arrival time is 21 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good morning!

BARBARA: Good morning, Elias. (Elias chuckles) I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to speak with you. I'm Aileen's sister, Barbara. First of all, Aileen says hello.

ELIAS: And you may extend my greetings also.

BARBARA: Thank you. If it's okay with you, I'm going to get started with the questions that I really need answered. I hope you can help me.

ELIAS: Very well.

BARBARA: My sister says you can, so I believe that.

Can you tell me, please, what is my family and alignment? My name is Barbara V. in this time/space.

ELIAS: Essence family, Vold; alignment in this focus, Sumari.

BARBARA: And then you said the essence name is...?

ELIAS: I did not offer essence name.

BARBARA: Oh, I'm sorry.

ELIAS: One moment. Essence name, Lezel, L-E-Z-E-L (LEE zuhl).

BARBARA: Thank you. What is my orientation?

ELIAS: Orientation, common.

BARBARA: Am I thought focused or emotionally focused?

ELIAS: Emotional focus.

BARBARA: That doesn't surprise me. Thank you. (Both laugh) I kind of figured that one out but I had to have it confirmed.

Elias, how many focuses do I have here, in this dimension?

ELIAS: Total numbering of focuses in this dimension, 614.

BARBARA: Oh god! Aileen asked how many does she have in this dimension?

ELIAS: Total numbering of focuses in this dimension, 127.

BARBARA: Also, how many lifetimes have Aileen and I had together, please?

ELIAS: Eight.

BARBARA: Recently, I had a friend, someone I loved that I had a relationship for 13 and a half years with, die on April 20. His name was Jeffrey K. He was 46 years old. Can you tell me, Elias, why and how did Jeff die?

ELIAS: What is the nature of your confusion?

BARBARA: Well, actually I didn't know he was dead 'til about a week after. Apparently along with the relationship I had with him, he was sharing another relationship with someone that I was not aware of, an older woman I suspect with money. I found out that they went to Hawaii together and he asked her to marry him. He had asked me the same question years ago. I said yes, and because I loved him so much I just recently got a divorce from a 26-year marriage, which wasn't a happy one. It was at first, but then it went downhill. I thought we were going to be together. I found out he was with her, and what I was told was that he had been found in her bed, dead.

ELIAS: Which is correct; therefore, what is the nature of your confusion?

BARBARA: My confusion is, I want to know, well, can you tell me how? What caused his death?

ELIAS: I may express to you, the actual physical aspect you may offer to yourself in investigation, but I may also express to you, the physical manner matters not. It is a choice to be disengaging, and this individual, in like manner to all individuals within your physical dimension, was aware in the moment of the choice to be disengaging. I may express to you this individual's reason, in your terms, for this choice was motivated in not wanting to continue in the expression that was being generated, for the individual's perception was of complication and conflict, and chose this method of discontinuing the conflict.

BARBARA: I know that waiting, as he said, waiting for me to get a divorce was difficult, but it was also very difficult for me. I had an attorney that was - excuse the expression, please, Elias - raping me big time of money. It was going on and on, two whole years.

He came back from Massachusetts the February before last. I thought he could move into my house. I found out I could not co-habitate, and he got very frustrated waiting and then he found this person. Did he love this person, Dorothy? Really love her?

ELIAS: In his perception and his definition of love, yes. Is this an accurate definition of genuine love? No. But in what was known in his perception, yes.

BARBARA: Was he still in love with me, or was he ever in love with me?

ELIAS: In his definition and perception, yes.

BARBARA: I wondered, if he did not disengage was he going to come back to me or was he just going to stay with the elderly lady for the money?

ELIAS: This is speculation, my friend, for the choice was engaged.

BARBARA: Did he take his own life?

ELIAS: In your terms, no.

BARBARA: He didn't take an overdose of something.

ELIAS: No.

BARBARA: Where's Jeff now?

ELIAS: Within an area of consciousness in the action of transition.

BARBARA: And he realizes what he's done? He realizes he's no longer on this plane or dimension - I'm not sure of the proper wording - but he realizes he's no longer here, correct?

ELIAS: Not entirely.

BARBARA: I didn't think so. (Emotionally) Oh boy, this is rough because I loved him a lot. He had three children that we shared for 13 years. It was a big connection for me. Had I gotten a divorce back then, would we be together now?

ELIAS: Let me express to you, my friend, these types of questionings are inconsequential and irrelevant, for they are merely speculation. For these are not the choices that you each engaged. Therefore quite genuinely it matters not what may or may not have been. What holds significance is what is.

BARBARA: I understand that, Elias, but I am feeling so much pain that I don't want to feel like I was just another one of his people that he used. I found out he had a way of using people.

ELIAS: This is not the point either, my friend, for as you continue to focus your attention upon the choices and the behaviors of the other individual, you shall not offer yourself comfort and you shall not ease the expression of pain, so to speak, that you are generating, for this experience is being generated by you. What shall be influencing in offering yourself comfort is to be turning your attention to you and offering yourself information in association with what generates these feelings, so to speak, which are signals that you are offering to yourself to move your attention to be exploring what you are generating inwardly and therefore allow yourself that recognition, and once recognizing, offering yourself acknowledgment and choices which shall validate you.

BARBARA: I'd like to ask, too, had I ever been with Jeff before this lifetime, and in what capacity? (Pause)

ELIAS: Yes. You engage several focuses with that essence in different capacities of relationships.

BARBARA: With Jeff?

ELIAS: Yes.

BARBARA: When I first met Jeff, he owned a fish market. He told me, he swore - which I don't know whether it was a line or not - but he swore when I walked into the room all the pictures on the wall moved. Is that true?

ELIAS: Yes.

BARBARA: I never believed him. I wasn't easily ... I mean, I liked him, I thought he was friendly, but he chased me for like a year and a half before we actually became anything more than just friends. We used to sit in the park, and I used to put my forehead against his - I don't know why - and I would say to him, "Think." I had a feeling that I had seen him in the Roman days and he was a gladiator, that's what I saw.

ELIAS: Correct.

BARBARA: Was that real?

ELIAS: Yes.

BARBARA: Oh, my goodness! Will we ever be together again in the capacity that we were trying to do here, to be together 'til old age?

ELIAS: In the terms in which you are presenting this question, no, for there is no expression of reincarnation. This is a religious belief, and therefore there is no actual remanifestation. All of your focuses are simultaneous; therefore they are all occurring now.

BARBARA: When Jeff disengaged - well, I don't know how to express this, but I'm going to put it in the words that I know - did he do that because... I know there was conflict, but the thing is, was he trying to decide what to do and he couldn't handle it anymore?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

BARBARA: I don't think he was a very strong person, anyway. That's my opinion.

Was Jeff, for a better use of words, a con man? Was that his forte?

ELIAS: I am recognizing your association with this and with this term and your perception of that. I may express to you that the other individual's perception was not that he expressed an intentional action of that type of expression, no.

BARBARA: I didn't feel that he thought he was, but there were other incidences. There was an elderly woman named Lucy, another one named Maria, another one named Beth, and there was a young girl named Dawn. He went to Chicago with the elderly woman, Lucy, I was told, for a doll show. He used to dabble in antiques. Was he sleeping with that older woman, too? (Pause)

ELIAS: And what significance does this hold?

BARBARA: For me?

ELIAS: Yes.

BARBARA: I want to know ... there were a lot of incidences that happened, that I kept suspecting something wasn't right. When I tried to confront him with it, because I was supposed to be going with him, he kept saying, "You don't understand! You don't understand." I want to know just how far it went, because I want to know what I think I understood to be right or wrong. (Pause)

ELIAS: I may express to you, in some situations your impression was correct; in some situations, you generated an assumption within your perception as influenced by your beliefs and suspicion. But suspicion is not generated by another individual; it is generated within yourself.

Therefore once again, my friend, I may suggest to you, you shall offer yourself much more and constructive information in engaging questioning in relation to yourself rather than concentrating your attention upon the other individual and questioning the other individual's behaviors or motivations.

BARBARA: Of course, I'm not used to hearing "the truth," you know, but there were too many instances, too much around the way he was doing things. I was working and I was trying to help him and his children as much as possible because I loved him and the children. He kept saying this one was just a friend and that one was just a friend, and I got different messages from certain people that that wasn't true.

I have never been sexually with anybody, intercourse-wise, but him for the last 13 and a half years. Can you or do you detect anything in me that I may be concerned with disease because of his promiscuousness?

ELIAS: Presently, no. This is not to say that you may not generate that. I may express to you quite definitely, if you generate that, it is YOUR creation. It is NOT a cause and effect. You are not generating that presently, but you do hold the ability to create that type of physical expression.

BARBARA: Well, I don't want to do that.

Can you also tell me why - I know I'm asking things about Jeff, because I need to get over this and I need to answer this - but why was Jeff fired from the vision center where he was an optician, the real reason?

ELIAS: And once again, what is the nature of your concern?

BARBARA: I was told one thing, and I think, I have suspicion, it was another entirely. He was going to sue the company, which he sued everybody. I was just wondering if it was real, what he was telling me. I don't think so; I think he did something that actually caused his dismissal, which doesn't surprise me.

ELIAS: I may express to you, these are all matters of perception. I am not discounting your perception, but I may express to you, the other individual's perception was different.

BARBARA: I think I had a dream about Jeff, and I'd like to know if there's any significance to what I saw. I didn't find out that he had passed 'til a week later, the night of the funeral - that was a shock. Then two weeks later, I believe I had one dream of him.

He looked messy, sloppy, like the last time I saw him when he was here in my home on the 17th. I sensed something - I don't know whether it was a lot of drugs in him or something - that made me uncomfortable. He came up where I am in this area, and he was spending a lot of time with the elderly woman. She had a lot of money, and I think basically that was his little thing, but that's my perception. He came here, he looked exhausted, I let him sleep here, and then in the morning I really didn't have anything to say to him. I just said to him, "Please leave." When he looked at me, he looked very empty, almost already gone. When I dreamt of him, he looked messy; his hair was messy and sloppy. The only thing I remember saying to him in my dream state was, "You're dead."

I haven't seen him again for a while, and then the night before last I think I saw him. I saw an upstairs apartment. The doorway was partially covered by a mattress so I could only see in a little. I sensed that was Jeff's residence, but he wasn't there. Everything seemed so still. Then I saw him in a field of horse manure. The ground was all filled and it seemed to be like in rows, but the thing that was so profound for me was I kept having the sense of the horse manure being pure, just pure - no why, but pure. Then I could smell it, very much so, and I had a little bit on my right hand.

Then I saw Jeff; I believe it was Jeff. I got a glimpse of his eyes and his beard, but he had his hand up in front of him and his face showing me the rings that I had bought him, and there was a few extra which I'm sure the other woman bought him. The word "Laredo" or "Larado" came into focus. I don't know where that came in. Then I saw him walking out to the field with two other men around the same age, 46. Then all of a sudden he had a hat on, which sort of looked like a farmer's hat sort of, and when he turned he was Chinese and the words "Hong Kong" came into focus for me. That's what I remember.

Oh, and I remember seeing Butchie, the cat that we loved together, and there was a dog, too, kind of a medium-sized dog which I suspect was Sara. I'm not sure.

ELIAS: What you have offered to yourself in this dream imagery is a translation, and you have generated an experience of allowing yourself momentarily to tap into the energy expressed in association with this individual in the action of transition. In this, you have allowed yourself to generate in dream imagery the translation of the action that is occurring, in which there is not yet an actual awareness of the disengagement but there is a presentment of action which is occurring, in experiencing and recognizing other focuses that this individual incorporates in this physical dimension. You have merely allowed yourself to tap into that energy temporarily and in a manner of speaking offer yourself a connection, so to speak, with the individual's energy.

BARBARA: Where did I come up with the words "Larado" or Laredo"? Does that mean anything?

ELIAS: It is a physical location of another focus.

BARBARA: So, Laredo or Larado is out west.

ELIAS: Yes.

BARBARA: And then "Hong Kong" is obviously where Hong Kong is.

ELIAS: Correct.

BARBARA: Is there any way, simply because of the children... When Jeff decided to leave, he didn't leave a will. From what I understand from what he was telling me, he was buying many antiques and so forth and so on. He claimed he was keeping himself busy waiting for me. No one can locate that stuff and there are many things that should go to his children. Is there any way to find out where that storage area was or is, or if it exists still?

ELIAS: If you are so choosing, you may investigate this physically. I may express to you, it matters not.

BARBARA: I'm sure you can understand my position of not quite understanding everything, but it's not a terribly good feeling for me to think that he didn't... I'm not saying that he didn't love me in his own... I always told him that he didn't know what love was. I used to tell him, "You know, you really don't know what real love is." He did not have a father or a mother that were very kind, and he took that to heart really, really big time. I mean, he wouldn't even let that go at that age - some of us do, some of us don't.

But when he came here on that night, on the 17th, why was he here?

ELIAS: What is your impression?

BARBARA: Well, I was kind of angry with him because I thought he was drugged, terribly drugged. He had a problem with drugs. I didn't want to be responsible for his death if he were to try to drive all the way back to wherever he was going, since I suspected that he was living with someone. I didn't know, but I had that feeling.

I was letting go for quite some time, and I don't think he liked it. Because I always fell for everything he said, and suddenly I was getting, I was picking up, sensing things. I can't tell you I was sensing this one or that one. I can't tell you that. I was just sensing things. And I told him point blank I wasn't going to be his convenience. He wasn't going to stop here and do whatever, have sex, spend the night, eat free, whatever, and then go back to somebody else six nights a week. He swore he wasn't doing that, but I just felt it inside.

When I saw him, it was almost like he wasn't real. Was he saying good-bye? Because I wasn't very kind.

ELIAS: No.

BARBARA: He wasn't saying good-bye.

ELIAS: No.

BARBARA: He did not know at that time that he was going to...?

ELIAS: No.

BARBARA: When he did go to bed, he decided right then and there that he was going to just disengage? I don't quite understand that, Elias.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes, this is correct. Every individual within your physical dimension incorporates an objective awareness in the moment of the choice to be disengaging.

BARBARA: You know, a lot of times he called me stupid ... pretty bad names, but it didn't come to me - and maybe I'm wrong - that he was talking about himself when he was screaming at me. He went to the Ritz Escoffier in Paris; he got a degree there as a chef. With my help - because I helped him with this one - he became an optician. After that, at the time of his death, he was one week or so away from getting his license as a real estate agent. This person, this woman, older woman he was living with was a real estate agent. He wanted me to go to real estate school with him, but I sensed that he knew that was impossible because he was going to school in Yukon, and he knew that I could not drive there. Plus, I had too much going on in my life that I had to deal with. Why did he feel he had to have all these degrees and not use them?

ELIAS: (Gently) These are merely choices, my friend, choices of experiences.

BARBARA: I know he didn't like to work. It was easier for him to - for a better sense of the word, in my own mind - con someone. When I met him, I saw a sweetness, a gentleness and a very intelligent person that I thought, first, it would be fun to be around. He was awful bouncy and stuff. Then it got complicated, and I guess I sort of tried to rescue him for a long time. Then when he started to get his degrees, he started getting very cruel to me. Can you tell me what he thought of me? (Pause)

ELIAS: (Slowly) I may offer to you a recognition of this individual's perception in association with your expressions, that the reason that you experience this expression of what you view as negativity or even to the point of cruelty to yourself was generated in responsiveness to judgments and discountings that you expressed.

I am aware that your perception expresses that you engaged helpfulness. The other individual's perception was not the same. Many times individuals express actions that they believe are helpful, and in that expression of helpfulness, the individual also generates an expectation of another individual. The expectation may be that if they are helpful to another individual, the other individual should be grateful or the other individual should be engaging certain actions or behaviors or choices in association with the first individual's helpfulness. Generating expectations is genuinely not helpful, and the other individual receives that energy and recognizes it immediately and generally speaking shall respond to that recognition.

BARBARA: I need to ask just one more time, why was he here on the 17th?

ELIAS: For you drew this individual to yourself, and he also chose to draw himself to you within that moment.

BARBARA: Well, it didn't exactly turn out the way he thought because I was sensing something, I didn't know what. I feel badly that the last thing I said to him was, "Just leave." (Emotionally) Because I really did love him, and I still do. And I thought he loved me, but if he loved everybody the same then it really wasn't worth...

ELIAS: And express to myself, why shall you discount your experience with this individual, or your offering or your allowance of yourself to be experiencing an affection, in association with the choices of the other individual? It matters not what the other individual engages or what they generate. This does not discount your choice and your allowance of your expression of affection. It does not invalidate what you generate.

BARBARA: What I believed him to be telling me the truth, I believed. At first, I believed it whole-heartedly. Then I started questioning things, but I could never really find out anything. But he swore he wasn't doing anything. No such thing!

I was with him for two nights before he took off to Hawaii with this woman. When he backed out of the driveway where we were at, he looked at me and he looked so sad. I thought something's not right here, but then he left. Then he came back with this story that he had to drive a truck to Florida and he didn't make it and he had a heart attack in Georgia. When he came back I asked him how he got a tan in the hospital, and he kept swearing that he was in Georgia in a hospital. It hurt a lot.

And to find out on the night of his wake... I hugged this woman, I thought this woman was Lydia, a massage therapist we used to have. It wasn't; it was this other engaged person. I felt like a fool after I found out that that was the case.

ELIAS: Now; shall I express to you what you are creating?

BARBARA: Yes, please.

ELIAS: You are creating a tremendous expression of discounting of yourself and devaluation of yourself and your worth, for you are associating your worth and your value with the other individual and attempting to offer to yourself some expression of validation of the other individual's perception of you in an expression of value that you may allow yourself to value yourself, and this is not the point.

No other individual may express to you your value. No other individual may devalue you. But in not allowing yourself within you to recognize your worth, you seek that expression from other individuals. It matters not what individual you look to to seek your value and your worth, you shall disappoint yourself and merely reinforce your own discounting of yourself consistently, and this is what you are generating.

You are also generating expressing the role within yourself of being the victim to the choices of another individual, which denies your choices. For you are allowing yourself to generate your choices only in association with the choices of other individuals, and if other individuals generate certain choices, you automatically express within yourself that you are a victim and you do not incorporate choices any longer.

What you are generating is discounting your expression of affection that you offered and invalidating those choices. For within your perception that expression is not valid unless it is shared or reciprocated by the other individual, and this is incorrect.

BARBARA: (Sighs) Yes, I think I am aware of that. I have low self-esteem, I know that.

Can I also ask you, Elias, before my time is up, does Jeff hear me when I speak to him now?

ELIAS: There is a slight awareness of energy, but not necessarily a clear recognition of what that energy is expressing.

BARBARA: Will that happen eventually, or will it just dissipate and be gone?

ELIAS: It is dependent upon the choice of the individual. I may express to you that once moving through this action of transition, there shall be a clear awareness of himself as essence and of your essence. But in terms of your physical expression, in this time framework there is not necessarily an awareness of the physical expressions.

BARBARA: Before my time is up - I've got a few more minutes left - I'd also like to ask about the light of my life, my granddaughter, Brianna. Can you tell me her essence name? (Pause)

ELIAS: Essence name, Lulu.

BARBARA: (Laughs) That's great! It fits her. Does she talk to my mom who has passed?

ELIAS: At times.

BARBARA: I thought so! She told me she did. Is Brianna aware that she's talking to Great-Nana?

ELIAS: Yes.

BARBARA: She said so. My granddaughter is very special, I think. Is she?

ELIAS: (Laughs) I may express to you, my friend, you are all special. Ha ha ha!

BARBARA: She told me there was a little old lady in there (laughs), because I looked at her one time and I said, "Brianna, who's in there? Is there a little girl or a little old lady?" and she said, "There's a little old lady." (Laughs with Elias) And she's four! She's extremely bright, and she is a ticket.

Is my brother, Eddie, okay? He passed last year, August.

ELIAS: In what capacity are you inquiring?

BARBARA: Has he made his transition?

ELIAS: Not entirely.

BARBARA: When you're making your transition, it's not painful, is it?

ELIAS: No. It is merely an action of shedding the beliefs associated with this physical dimension and also discontinuing the objective awareness, for it is unnecessary to be incorporating objective awareness outside of physical dimensions.

BARBARA: Did he take his own life, or was it an accident?

ELIAS: I may express to you, my friend, once again these are relative questions, for disengagement or death is a choice.

BARBARA: I'm sorry, it's hard for me to understand that. I just know that he was messing around with a drug that I was not aware that he was. So I guess it's easy for someone like me to say, "Well, that's why."

ELIAS: I am understanding, but regardless of the choice of method ALL expressions of death are a choice.

BARBARA: Can you tell me, for the last question, what is my son's essence name? My son's name is John. (Pause)

ELIAS: Essence name, Adam.

BARBARA: Nice. Well, I believe that I will see all my animals again when I pass. Will I be with them again?

ELIAS: If you choose. (Chuckles)

BARBARA: Yes, I do. Well, I think I've got two minutes left and here I am, clammed up!

I know it's probably my choice as to what happens to me in my life as I'm understanding, but can you give any avenues that I might ... not having an education, which I don't, and I do have some physical problems but I'm going to try my best to heal my back. I've had two fusions and they're talking about another one, and I will not allow that and I want to heal it myself.

I once healed my leg. I had ... they don't even know. I almost lost my leg. My sister was there with me - Alina; I forgot her name, my sister, Carole - and I actually did concentrate on the leg for, I don't know, minutes or a half hour or so every day. I don't have one scar, and I should.

ELIAS: And therefo...

BARBARA: Because I had such a high fever, they had me in an ice bed and so forth and so on. They were going to lance my leg, and I remember coming back into consciousness and telling my sister, "No." Then I went back into unconsciousness with a temperature of 106 and a half, 107, something like that, and I kind of brought myself out of it. Can I do that again with my back?

ELIAS: Yes, you may. You have offered yourself an experience to generate evidence to yourself objectively that you do incorporate the ability to generate this type of action, and yes, you may, if you are choosing.

BARBARA: Great. Well, I believe my time is up, Elias. I appreciate very much your help. It was a pleasure speaking with you, and I hope I get to see you again on June 8.

ELIAS: Very well! I shall be anticipating our meeting in objective physical proximity. Ha ha! I express to you encouragement and my energy of supportiveness...

BARBARA: I appreciate that very much, very much.

ELIAS: ...and offer to you a genuine affection. Until our next meeting, my friend...

BARBARA: Thank you very much.

ELIAS: ...au revoir.

BARBARA: Au revoir.

Elias departs at 12:09 PM.

©2004 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved

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Copyright 2002 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.