Tuesday, December 4, 2001 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Anjuli (Miranda)
Elias arrives at 11:45 AM. (Arrival time is 23 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

ANJULI: Good afternoon, Elias! I have a little fun story for to share.

ELIAS: Very well!

ANJULI: It was shortly before the last session, and it is about communication. I was in the supermarket and went home, and I had a song in my head all the time that they played in the supermarket. And I thought, "Oh, that is boring, and I don't want it," and I tried to think of another song, another music. Then there was an almost not recognizable emotion, and I remembered you and what you told us. I looked into that and I had a thought process around this whole emotion, and I discovered something about that song. It was a French song, it was (singing), "Oh, Champs Elysee..." and I thought, "What does it mean?" Then suddenly I saw it from a different angle, and I discovered that I had created an imagery about "Oh, you many avenues of communication!" (Laughs with Elias)

I was SO happy when I discovered that, and I discovered what perception means, you know. I could have thought that to be boring and could have not listened to this subtle emotion, but I did listen, and I discovered this joy about what it means and what it says to me, and especially because it was in French. So I had, of course, to think of you! (Laughing)

ELIAS: And have offered yourself an example of altering your perception. Ha ha!

ANJULI: Oh yes, it definitely worked! That was so strong. After the last session, in the evening and I think then in the morning when I woke up and was kind of in a half sleep or what, this was all the time in my head as a kind of happy reminder.

Then I had all kinds of insights into imageries I have created, partially questions which I had thought I would like to ask you in the next sessions, and I started to discover that it is now much easier for me to feel into emotions or body or whatever as communication and connect it with the imagery and find out what I want to tell myself.

ELIAS: Ah! And what are you offering yourself in these communications?

ANJULI: In which communication?

ELIAS: In ALL of these communications. (Pause)

ANJULI: Many were about language as communication, for example ... I think I have to take an example.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANJULI: Yesterday I had an imagery with my mother. She came up here and she had her usual problems with my father who has Alzheimer's disease, and this time I watched myself how I was focusing on self. I did not get involved in her troubles. I talked with her but I did not get involved, and afterwards I was also feeling quiet. I did not get too much drawn into the energy. Later there was also a feeling as if I had not ... it was not this validation feeling, so I knew I still have something to discover. Then I had a new feeling of why this situation with my mother and her problems still repeatedly comes up, and I thought about what she had talked about. She had talked about my father, that he is not expressing, he is not talking clearly, he cannot talk anymore really fully, and she was judging him. I remembered he is in transition, she does not understand that, she is judging that, and I have created it all. So it talks about me, as I am in transition, and about communication, language communication, and maybe also my desire to sometimes reduce the use of language communication as a means of communicating.

ELIAS: Very well, and what have you offered to yourself within your imagery concerning your mother?

ANJULI: That I had a part in me that judges this aspect of me that just wants to flow with the need of wherever my transitional state leads me. Can that be?

ELIAS: Yes, and in this are you allowing yourself in the interaction with your mother to recognize, in association with her alignment (Ilda), her expression to you? If you are not creating an expression of judgment within you, you shall also as a natural by-product accept her expression and offer yourself a clearer understanding of it.

ANJULI: Yes.

I had so far not understood what counterparts are, and from one of the recent sessions I discovered that probably Ahmed and I are counterparts. Is that right?

ELIAS: Yes.

ANJULI: Then I thought about this whole counterpart thing, and I thought about my parents because they are in some areas completely different. Like my father is right now and also throughout his life more happy, positive in his thinking. He can focus on different things. When he has troubles he focuses on something, the sun or the trees or whatever, and my mother is the opposite. She is taking things more serious, she is more depressive. Then I for the first time realized that they are kind of both, in some parts, expressing the extremes and that each one gets the other side of the extreme. Is this also a counterpart action?

ELIAS: Yes.

ANJULI: From that I concluded that the same is with me and my mother, because she is also in those aspects expressing completely different than I am doing, and I was for while always thinking, "Why do I still have so much to do with her depressions?" I think I was still judging them a little bit, and I wondered why I create that because I don't have them. I had maybe some in the past, but I was not coming to the idea what that means. Then I discovered that probably I experience a different way of perception, of perceiving reality or emotions through her, in the same way as my father in his counterpart action with my mother. So I don't need to do it through me, but I experience it through her.

ELIAS: Correct!

ANJULI: I do the same with my younger sister, with her arts and outward expressing? Is that also some kind of counterpart of me, because we also were very close in the past?

ELIAS: Yes.

ANJULI: We sometimes also now have the same experiences, although she is reading Christian books and I am reading sessions with you, but she sometimes comes to the same experiences or conclusions or what as I do. So, I thought this must also have something to do with this counterpart thing.

ELIAS: Partially, but also you are offering yourself imagery that you may present to yourself evidence in objective expressions that validates that each individual shall present information to themselves in their own unique manner in association with their perception. But regardless of the manner in which they offer themselves information, they also are moving in alignment with this shift.

ANJULI: Yes, yes, yes, I see that. Yes, it's true. I was sometimes in the past impressed by that, when I saw how she is just doing her things, something that I would not choose or even judged in the past, and she is just happy and flowing with herself. Yes, it is so true.

I had a similar feeling about my other sister. She is even reading the same books sometimes that I am reading and we do not talk about that. So is this the same as with my younger sister? When I, for example, in the past talked with her about my experiences or now would give her my sessions with you, then she would discount herself. I discovered that in this we are kind of extremes, because when I hear others talking about successes, about wonderful subjective or objective or whatever experiences, they are inspiring for me, and I react by, "Oh, this is possible. I can do it, too," or, "Oh, it is great. I don't desire for to do it too, but it is great." She is in that different than me, and it was the same as with the depression of my mother, that I was a little bit judging that because I could not really understand it or something. Now I see that it is the same, it is this getting this full range of experience. You can do it like this or like this, experience like I am doing or like she is doing.

ELIAS: Correct.

Now; I may express to you, this is not a counterpart action that you engage with this individual. But you do allow yourself to pay attention to the reflection that you offer to yourself through this individual, to offer yourself information concerning sameness and difference.

ANJULI: Yes, Elias, because then I had realized all that I discovered, that this is how I can see whenever I am creating something that is very different from me, that it is just about sameness and difference.

ELIAS: Correct, and in this, as you recognize these expressions of sameness and difference and you turn your attention to self and examine these expressions, you allow yourself more of a familiarity with you and therefore less of an expression of threat or fear concerning difference.

ANJULI: Yes. Yes, I sometimes had that a little bit, that is true.

ELIAS: In actuality, at times you may even recognize that you move your perception in a manner in which the sameness is less validating and the difference becomes more validating.

ANJULI: (Laughs) Yes, that's true! I was not sure if I can allow myself to realize that! But that's about judging the difference, and when I see it as that then I don't need to feel these conflicts about these realizations.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANJULI: So then it is similar about playfulness or not-playfulness and seriousness?

ELIAS: Yes, for these expressions that you generate in relation to other individuals also, as I have stated, are reflections of different aspects of yourself, that you are generating within self, and in this you may allow yourself to examine these expressions without judgment and recognize that they are merely differences, and that all of these expressions are influenced by beliefs and it matters not.

ANJULI: So I create it all, and it sometimes talks directly to me as a direct reflection of something in me, and sometimes it is more abstract and I need to look for a while for to discover what I created and what it tells me.

ELIAS: Yes, for there are some expressions and beliefs that you may recognize as being more underlying and less obvious than other beliefs.

And also, my friend, many times in examining beliefs through reflections of other individuals, individuals within your physical dimension create a tendency to view the outward expression quite literally rather than allowing for the recognition of the abstract, and therefore as you turn your attentions to yourselves, your assumption of what you are attempting to discover is that it shall be quite the same literally as what is being expressed outwardly in objective imagery, and this is not necessarily the situation at times. For your expression within yourself may be different, or it may be generated differently in the translation of objective expression or imagery, but the actual influencing belief or the associations may be the same.

Therefore, at times, you are correct that some of your expressions, in your terms, may be requiring more of an investigation, for they are less obvious.

ANJULI: Sometimes I am not thinking in the direction of what is the content of this mail, like for example I get a mail and sometimes the mail directly talks to me, or something in your session or whatever, and sometimes it's more ... like I take the whole situation or the whole day or a whole week, and then it gets abstract and I draw from that why I created it or what I created, and I would not necessarily be able to express it in language communication, but I feel it.

ELIAS: Correct, and eventually it shall become obvious to you.

ANJULI: Regarding beliefs and language communication, in the last session at the beginning we talked about how I was in my book creating imagery about beliefs and releasing birds from the cages and discovering more and more beliefs, and then I tried to explain to you what you later told me about this firework thing. I said it feels like an explosion, and the moment when I tried to find a word for it, I was not thinking. I had this experience again, and I felt kind of outside of language communication. I got more a feeling of how free the expressing is when I don't need that, when I am outside of that, and how it can be challenging to find an expression for what I want to say.

Now it is again difficult for me to express, because when you said that was an experience like a firework, this whole talk with you, this expression and the experience that I did not find the word and you gave me the word and all, that was so freeing and interesting and it somehow caught my attention because of this moment of being outside of the language communication.

ELIAS: I am understanding. I may express to you also that many times as an individual begins genuinely turning the attention to self and generating this inward exploration so to speak, you allow your attention to move more in the direction of listening to your own communications to yourself, and these communications are not necessarily expressed in language.

Therefore temporarily many individuals experience what you may term to be a withdrawing from objective language communications in relation to themselves and in relation to their interactions with other individuals, and may even experience a time framework in which they are generating difficulty or challenge in expressing communication with other individuals incorporating language.

ANJULI: Yes, this was one of the imageries which I went through in this morning after the session. In my book Runi sometimes is not able to talk. She is then mute and she is very much inward directed. She is focusing on self, and the only interaction she has is an inner subjective interaction with Inmi. She is using those times for to balance herself after kind of feeling challenged by subjective experiences which are translated into the objective, and group experiences, and expressing herself. Yes, and she is using that for to come into another balance or whatever.

ELIAS: Correct, and in this you shall discover that subsequent to this temporary time framework in which you are generating frustration or struggle with language communication, you shall recognize that many times the objective language communication is unnecessary, and you shall allow yourself to become comfortable in that knowing and allow yourself this type of expression in which you may not be necessarily generating continuous communication through language. And also, as you continue movement in familiarity of self and you generate more of this comfortableness within self, you also subsequently allow yourself to incorporate communication through language more efficiently in the moments that you choose to be engaging language communication.

ANJULI: Oh Elias, that is great, because I thought I would like to have some session pause, session holidays, because I want to focus more on ... I feel this coming, this kind of time for allowing myself to move away from language communication, and this also includes you and our language communication here, because I see that there is now a difference starting in me. I have lots of fun in talking with you like that, and also I feel that in the past I had taken it to be much more important or real or clear than inner communication, and this changes and I know that and I feel drawn to that. So I was thinking in that direction, but I still have little bit of conflict because it's ... not conflict, but there is still a little bit of feeling that objective interaction is more real, and I know it is not.

ELIAS: I am understanding, and I may express to you also, my friend, that it matters not, for you are experimenting and you are practicing, and one manner of communication in actuality is not better than another. Therefore, if you are generating fun in whichever method of communication you are engaging, this is the point.

ANJULI: Yes, yes, that's true. I just go by fun! (Laughing)

And Elias, after the session, when viewing it again, I had the experience as if we had language communication, but I felt kind of outside of it, either outside of the physical dimension or I watched it or it didn't feel ... it felt different.

ELIAS: I am understanding, for you are beginning an allowance of yourself to be diverting your attention.

Now; what I am expressing in this is that you are moving your attention back and forth. In this, as you continue to experiment, you may allow yourself to become proficient at paying attention to both actions of subjective and objective interaction simultaneously. But as this is not quite familiar yet, what you generate is moving your attention from one to the other and continuing to move back and forth, in one moment allowing yourself to pay attention to the subjective interaction and in another moment paying attention to the objective interaction. Therefore, in your terms it feels different, for you are paying attention to two actions which in actuality are in harmony with each other, but they are expressed differently.

I shall also express to you, in this, eventually, as you continue to practice and experiment, you shall allow yourself to be not separating these two expressions of awareness and paying attention to both movements simultaneously without incorporating moving your attention to one or the other.

ANJULI: This means, for example, I would express a sentence to you and would at the same time be aware of many various expressions I am having on the inner or in the whole communication, that there is a sentence and in addition to that other things are there.

ELIAS: Correct, and it shall not be distracting, for your attention shall not be moving in singular expressions.

ANJULI: And then, Elias, the last session also felt as if there is a projection of a picture on water. The water is calm, and I don't realize that it's water, I think it's a glass, and then it starts to be "wavery" and I see that it's not solid anymore. This feeling of this wavery picture, that's how I try to translate to myself this experience, partially, of the last session. It was kind of wavery, not solid, and...

ELIAS: Correct, and I may express to you an acknowledgment of the imagery that you have chosen, for this is in actuality quite accurate concerning the action that was being incorporated. For in viewing the imagery or the image as the glass, you are presenting to yourself the expression of not merely solidity but of separation and barrier between two expressions. But as you convert this glass into movement and generate more of a fluidity, you transpose the glass into the imagery of the water, which is your beginning recognition of less separation between different expressions of awareness.

ANJULI: Then what added to this new feeling was this experience that I sometimes didn't hear you, and this was a different experience, as sometimes you say something and when you talk for a longer time I can get distracted into energies or into whatever. I hear you, but I do not necessarily get the content. But this was a feeling of me listening into the phone and not hearing you, and therefore it felt more like that's what I can create through energy, that I even don't hear you anymore, or like I had in the past this feeling that some sentences on the tapes were different than I heard you saying on the phone.

ELIAS: Correct, which is another example of moving your attention back and forth.

ANJULI: Oh, and this then gave me the first time this feeling of, oh, now I get this, I see that reality is not in absolutes and it can change and I don't see it as solid anymore, and I feel this playfulness in this, that I sometimes don't hear you or the sentences are changed or whatever. It gives me a feeling of playing with the reality.

ELIAS: Correct, for in actuality you may perceive in one moment one statement as it applies to your movement in that moment, and subsequently you may perceive a different statement, as in that moment it may be associated with your movement differently.

ANJULI: Yes. I got this feeling strongly in the last session. In the first sessions, when I listened to the tapes I already had some feeling. This is why I think in the fifth I asked you if this is in general possible that the tapes can be altered, but then I did not realize that it had already been started. So this whole thing just continues, and I start to feel so much fun in that.

In the last session I had the first time this feeling of probabilities, as if there are probably more sessions parallel to this one, and in one I choose this and in another one I have chosen a different direction.

ELIAS: And this is the expression of creating your reality in the moment and the recognition that there are no absolutes.

ANJULI: Yes, and it suddenly did not matter anymore. This was so freeing. I realized even it does not matter what you tell me or what I think. I could give the example of number of focuses or whatever. I would not mind anymore about ANY changes, it does not matter how crazy they would look like. I would not feel them as crazy. It kind of does not matter at all.

ELIAS: I am quite understanding, my friend, for as you associate with absolutes, you also create judgments.

ANJULI: Yes, that's true. Oh, that's great, Elias, that's great. I had thought so much in the last hours of this session and I knew I could not plan it, but I felt a bit of a direction and then I felt various possibilities of what I would say, and then I realized that I can just go by the moment, I cannot plan it anymore. I can feel something a little bit of what I am curious about, but I cannot plan it anymore. And I like that!

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! Very well, my friend! You are allowing yourself to be experimenting with this playfulness quite frequently, which offers you much more of an expression of freedom.

ANJULI: Oh, and Elias, I had fun with this "little dog, big dog" story. We talked about this small light and the big light in my book, and then the various interpretations of what they mean.

ELIAS: Yes.

ANJULI: And then we talked about Inmi telling Runi something about the big light and the small light, and then you told me this "small dog and the big dog" story. I mean, not the story, but you made me aware of that. Afterwards I wrote an email to the Elias List, and then somebody sent me this story of the small dog and the big dog out of one session of Ruther, and then a few days later she told me that she has dreamt of me. She will interpret it in her terms, and for her world or for her reality it may have a different meaning, but we both felt it was a fun creation about a little dog, because she dreamt of me having a little dog in my arms. Well, first of all it was fun, because this "little dog, big dog" thing had changed a lot, it had suddenly freed me or something.

The other thing is something that I would like to ask you. We talked about this a little bit already. It is what I experience as "shifting of me-ness."

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct, and therefore your analogy with the small light and the large light.

ANJULI: I sometimes get the feeling that I shift into another me-ness, like with my mother for example and I view her creations, or on the Elias List, and...

ELIAS: Yes.

ANJULI: ...see it all as everything is the self. Yes, I cannot express it different, but it's a shift of me-ness. I was wondering, is this also something that has something to do with this shift, or has something to do with my way of experiencing everything, that I create from different perspectives?

ELIAS: Both, and allowing yourself to move your perception.

I may express to you, my friend, the mechanism of perception is in actuality quite mobile, but in previous time frameworks and to this point within your physical dimension for the most part individuals have created a solidity of perception, allowing a movement of it for a brief time framework in relation to your associations with development.

Therefore as small ones previously, you have allowed yourselves to move your perceptions and allowed a mobility in the generating of your reality through your perceptions, but as you incorporate more years within your physical manifestation it becomes less and less mobile, more and more stiff, and therefore it becomes, in a manner of speaking, similar to a gear that does not move any longer and remains in one position.

In this, as you are participating in this shift in consciousness, you are beginning, in a manner of speaking, to oil this gear and allow it to move once again, dropping the association of absolutes which has rusted this gear in place and allowing yourself to pay attention to this gear, polish it and allow it new movement, which allows you to manipulate this gear to generate quite different expressions of your reality.

ANJULI: I also had the experience of, for example, when I write a mail, in the past I had thought the mail goes out and everyone is getting the same mail. But now, still everyone gets the same mail, but I have the feeling as if I write one mail and a hundred mails arrive, because of the various realities and how everybody is perceiving it.

ELIAS: Correct. You incorporate one expression of energy that you generate and this is translated in numerous directions, for it is translated by each individual that allows themself to receive it, in their own unique manner through their perception.

ANJULI: Another thing regarding communication, we were discussing a little bit about private sessions just with you, sessions that are not for the public and sessions that you share with everyone. I have been for a while considering to try how that feels to have the session just with you, and then I thought into all of that and also why I would like to experience that. First I had the feeling that probably one of the reasons could be that there is a kind of an awareness of the group also when I talk with you, but not really fully, just more like a flow, a fullness-flow or something, an awareness, not more, just a kind of an awareness.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANJULI: I first thought for a while that maybe I would like to experience how the communication with you is without that. Then I remembered the last session, and in the last session I did not consider it to be private, or I wanted it to be shared, and sometimes I had no feeling anymore of others. It was outside of that. I shifted into outside of this belief that this would make a difference.

ELIAS: I am understanding, for within your previous interaction with myself, as we have discussed this day, your attention was quite consistently moving back and forth in relation to your own awareness and experimenting with paying attention to the objective and the subjective expressions. Therefore, your association in awareness of other individuals or energies was not incorporated in your attention.

ANJULI: Would it make a difference or is there actually no difference?

ELIAS: It is dependent upon the individual. Some individuals incorporate fear or discounting of themselves and experience more comfort in allowance of themselves in their expression if they are not incorporating the allowance of objectively sharing, so to speak, their conversation with myself with other individuals, whether that be expressed objectively through recording or through transcription, it matters not.

I may also express to you that any individual may not necessarily be generating discounting of themselves or fear and may choose to be interacting with myself [and] not objectively sharing our conversations with other individuals, and this may be generated merely through preference. It is not necessarily always an expression of fear or discounting of themselves.

Therefore, in response to your question of whether there shall be experienced a difference in the exchange between myself and another individual in these types of expressions, it quite is dependant upon the choice of the individual and what they are expressing. At times an individual may be allowing themselves much more of an openness in singularly engaging interaction with myself, but at times they may not generate this experience.

ANJULI: So in this I also can just go by joy and fun, like if I decide to have a phone session with you or a subjective connection, or I share it or not share it, it is just something that I feel in that moment as a preference or whatever?

ELIAS: And is your choice, yes.

ANJULI: When I thought about that probability of having a session just with you, I discovered - like you said at the beginning, this thing with the fear - I discovered one or two fears that seemed to be an obstacle to have a public session. One is about language communication, that I see how to use language communication. For example, when I express my feelings for you or I talk about Runi and Inmi or whatever, then on the inner, inside of me, I always feel that it is all about my own self and you are my own self too, but I would not talk about that. Then I had the feeling that it could come into other realities as different, and so there was a little bit of the fear in that.

ELIAS: I am understanding, and this you may allow yourself to examine. For in actuality, as I have expressed many times, my friend, there are no secrets in consciousness. Therefore, it matters not. These...

ANJULI: So it is more about we see that as separation. We see ourselves as separate but in truth we are not, and everything is shared.

ELIAS: Correct, and in this you generate these types of experiences or apprehensions as an expression of suspicion and judgment in relation to yourself, discounting yourself and therefore projecting the reflection of this outwardly and generating suspicion concerning the perception of other individuals.

ANJULI: Yes, yes, definitely. That was also a part of what I thought in this morning when I went through the various imageries and what they mean to me. I also remembered that in the session we talked about that I sometimes like to see you as my elder brother with some incest, and I felt for example that this was more freeing because I expressed it with the knowing that it would be for everyone, because I learned something by that. (Elias chuckles) Then later I thought that probably there could be a reason for why I chose that imagery. Partially, there could be still be some kind of a judgment of myself regarding my relationship with you, my feelings for you and the expression of that. That's why I chose that brother with incest imagery?

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha! And I may express to you that I am quite amused with this particular choice of imagery, for you have allowed yourself to incorporate an expression of intimacy in a lack of differentiation of types of relationships.

ANJULI: Oh, yes. I love it a lot! It's my favorite imagery! And anyway in my book I created very many fun relationships all with regard to you. I like to use you for that. (Laughing with Elias)

That was definitely freeing, and I see that it was about the firework of belief systems, what relationships mean or feelings or sexuality, and how you can start to free yourself by not limiting yourself through beliefs. I see that this is very easy for me to do that with you or in the imagery with you, because of this inner trust and the ease in the relationship.

ELIAS: And so you may, my friend. (Pause)

ANJULI: Well, so, it's one hour, and Elias, I will experience it more clearly, the subjective interaction with you I mean, the direction of how I go?

ELIAS: If you are allowing, yes.

ANJULI: If I am allowing in various ways, either directly without language communication, or feeling it as a talk with you?

ELIAS: Yes.

ANJULI: Or just your energy or whatever?

ELIAS: All.

ANJULI: And I can use my emotions for feeling into validation or whatever my self wants to tell me in regard with that?

ELIAS: Yes, you may.

ANJULI: That's great, because I think this is what we all were so afraid of. We don't know if it is true or not, or if we get it wrong or whatever. We have this tool of feeling into our emotions, and there we can discover how we communicate with ourselves. We can give ourselves our own correct answer, or correction. (Laughing)

ELIAS: Correct. Ha ha ha!

ANJULI: This again was such a great fun, Elias. I enjoyed it so much.

ELIAS: And I also, my friend. I shall be anticipating our interaction in playfulness.

ANJULI: Yes. I love you very much, Elias.

ELIAS: And I offer to you also my tremendous affection, as always, my friend.

ANJULI: Thank you.

ELIAS: To you in lovingness, au revoir.

ANJULI: Au revoir.

Elias departs at 12:51 PM.

©2003 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved

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Copyright 2001 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.