Thursday, July 12, 2001 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Debi (Oona)
Elias arrives at 12:56 PM. (Arrival time is 26 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good morning!

DEBI: Good morning, Elias! (Elias chuckles) Good to hear your voice again.

ELIAS: And you also.

DEBI: Thanks. I guess you know I have some questions.

ELIAS: Very well, you may proceed.

DEBI: Okay. The first question I have is actually for a friend of mine, Debbie, and I don't know if this would be an intrusive question or not, but I thought I would go ahead and ask it.

She basically lost track of her ex-husband about ten years ago; he kind of disappeared. She's been talking to different psychics and all kinds of people trying to find out if he's actually disengaged or not, and she hasn't gotten an answer, in her mind. So I told her I would ask you.

ELIAS: You may extend my invitation to this individual, if they are so choosing, to be discussing with myself. You may also express to this individual (pause), no.

DEBI: I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.

ELIAS: The response to the question is no.

DEBI: No, he's not disengaged. Is that what you ... I'm sorry, I kind of had a hard time hearing you.

ELIAS: Correct.

DEBI: Thank you very much for that. Well, I guess we'll move on to me, now.

I think the first thing I want to talk to you about is, I had Lynda ask you a question about a voice that I heard calling my name. You expressed to her that it was Ordin, and I wondered if you could tell me anything more about that. I guess my question is, what was the purpose in that action? I'm thinking that it has to do with a reminder or something like that of the lack of separation. Is that what that was about?

ELIAS: In actuality, this is merely an introduction of another energy which participates in this energy exchange, allowing you, if you are so choosing, to familiarize yourself with other energies which are in participation with this energy exchange.

Now; this particular essence has been allowed by yourself the openness for the introduction, for you have drawn this expression of energy to yourself as the representation of the Zuli family, which expresses the quality of appreciation of physical manifestation. You have drawn this particular expression to yourself to be presenting to yourself an expression of energy to be reminding you of that quality of appreciation of aesthetic beauty, form and physical manifestations.

DEBI: Hmm. And this is something ... I guess I need to think about this a little bit. (Laughs)

ELIAS: This is quite purposeful, Oona. For within your expression presently, and also previously, you create movement in a direction of exploration of self in association with what you identify as spirituality - your right path, so to speak. And in this, underlyingly there continues to be energy expressed in distrust of physical manifestation, at times to the point in which there is created an association that physical form may in actuality be almost an enemy.

DEBI: Oh, wow!

ELIAS: For physical desires or impulses or expressions may be expressed as suspect, out of your control, and creating independently of what you choose - which is incorrect, but these are strongly associated beliefs.

DEBI: I'm thinking right now about ... for instance, something in what you just said clicked in my beliefs about drug addiction and myself as a recovering addict, and not being able to trust my physical self and things like that.

ELIAS: Correct, in which your form is suspect, for your belief is that it holds the ability to betray you for it creates choices independent of you, and therefore you become victim.

DEBI: You know, I've thought about that a lot lately, and I know that I'm still very much afraid of that type of thing. For instance, there's just no way I would go do any kind of a drug, even though I know logically that the drug is not creating my reality. I know that I still have a huge fear of that.

ELIAS: Correct. I am not expressing to you an advocacy that you be engaging this type of activity, for I hold an awareness of the strength of your beliefs and the associations that are expressed which are tremendously influencing of your perception, and your perception creates your actual reality.

What I am expressing to you is that you allow yourself to objectively recognize these beliefs and the influence of these beliefs, and how those beliefs create limitations and, in a manner of speaking, ripple out in triggering other associations, for the form itself is suspect. Therefore, the movements of it and the expression of it are suspect, not merely in association with substance.

DEBI: Right, there's a lot more there. Okay, and so this all ties in with the interaction with Ordin.

I guess one of the questions I had also is, I'm feeling like I'm beginning to recognize energies, the energy associated with some of the other essences in this exchange, although it may be something else entirely. Along with hearing the voice, I've had a lot of different kinds of movements lately. I get this feeling around my heart - I think it's in my heart area - it's almost like a thundering feeling. I'm wondering, my first thought was that maybe that's just familiarizing myself with another energy, or that it might actually be related to my pink energy center and have to do with other movement that might be going on. I'm a little confused as to what's going on. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Your identification of allowing an openness to the expressions of energy which are projected by these essences that participate in this exchange is correct.

DEBI: Okay, so that is what I've been feeling.

ELIAS: If you are so choosing, you may engage interaction with Lawrence in association with this particular energy that you have allowed yourself to experience and...

DEBI: Meaning Ordin?

ELIAS: No. This experience that you create in association with what you identify as thundering movement in the area of physical expression associated with heart - this is, in actuality, associated with the Vold.

DEBI: Oh, okay. So I should talk to Lawrence about that?

ELIAS: If you are so choosing.

DEBI: Oh, I am! Great! So that answered the question; I guess I am moving more into an expanded recognition of the others' energies.

ELIAS: Correct.

DEBI: There's just been so many questions I've had for you lately. I think I've been moving through some really big issues with myself, and I think that one of the biggies is about self-acceptance. I went through a period of time - and I don't think it's over, but it's not nearly as intense as it was - but it was as if every interaction with people around me was just ... oh my god, I can't even describe how everyone's behavior was just incredibly irritating to me.

It occurred to me, this is a little bit different and a little more intense than I'm used to getting emotional messages, as far as anger and things and looking at myself. Basically, at one point in time it occurred to me that I was looking at myself, and I could see these behaviors that I'm noticing in other people. They were not the usual obvious behaviors that I would associate with myself; they were under the surface kinds of things that just disgusted me. All of a sudden I saw that I do those things; that's my behavior.

And, Elias, I was so devastated, I have never hated myself with such a loathing in my life. I mean, it was just so total. I went to that place of two choices, either stay or disengage, and I didn't really like either choice, you know what I mean? Am I correct in concluding that I've been discovering camouflage and in some way moving into more self-acceptance, maybe actually assimilating that I choose to create everything I'm creating and that type of thing? I'm sort of understanding a little bit more, but it's almost like with each little piece of understanding I have more questions. Can you help me sort this out?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) You are correct in your assessment of what you are presenting to yourself. I may also express to you that you have created this type of expression and movement previously. You create, in a manner of speaking, waves within yourself. In our previous discussion, you were experiencing a very similar wave.

DEBI: It got more intense.

ELIAS: And this is the method that you have chosen, in similar manner to many other individuals who create quite similarly.

In this, you create an experience to be gaining your attention to be viewing what you create and your behaviors, and you offer partial attention to what you are presenting to yourself in the reflection of other individuals, but your movement in examination turns. Therefore, as you continue your desire to be exploring self and genuinely exposing yourself to you, you create another wave in presenting reflections to yourself; but each time framework in which you engage that action, you shall intensify the expression more, for this serves as tremendous motivation to be actually accomplishing the fullness of the examination.

DEBI: Okay, I understand that, and you can probably feel that scares me, because it's SO intense! I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but it scares me to think that it would get more intense, although I'm not quite sure what it is I'm afraid of. I have nowhere else to go but there, because I do desire to get to know myself; I can't see any other avenue. Maybe my trouble comes with my method. I'm just not relaxed into it. It's hard to be relaxed into extreme self-loathing, though, you know?

ELIAS: Your fear is expressed in relation to the intensity of judgment that you create. Your fear is not actually of self or what you may create or behaviors, but the intensity of judgment that you couple with these expressions. But this also is an intensely expressed opportunity. The intensity of the experience matches the intensity of the opportunity.

DEBI: Does it also match the degree of accomplishment? (Laughs)

ELIAS: It matches the intensity of potential accomplishment and freedom.

DEBI: Okay. Can you tell me what it is I can do? Is this just the way it is for me, period, or is there some way that I can move faster through this? I guess a lot of what I'm wondering is, is the intense emotional trauma that I feel, that I put myself through, does that distract me a lot of times? Is that obstructing my ability to translate the communications from myself? Because it's just so intense, and I find myself saying, "Oh my god, Debi, just pull back from this a little bit. There's a message here, and you're getting lost in the method of delivery." Is that happening?

ELIAS: Partially, for you overwhelm yourself with the signal rather than exploring the message.

In this, be remembering your intent. Therefore, you may allow yourself to recognize that you do express movement in intensity, but it does not necessarily require an intensity of judgment or discomfort.

Now; let me express to you, this is the significant point of allowing yourself an acceptance of you and your movement, for you do express your movement in intense directions and expressions. In this, they all are purposeful and contributing to your value fulfillment; therefore, in acceptance of how you present exploration to yourself, your perception shall alter.

(Elias leans forward) Let me express to you, in what I am offering to you presently, an identification of distinction. Knowing that you create your reality in the expression of intensity, you may continue to be expressing that intensity and not necessarily expressing the extreme in emotional communication or in signals. This is not to say that you may not continue to be creating intensity in experience, but as you allow yourself to relax and move yourself more into an objective familiarity with self, and in that process create more of an acceptance of self and more of an expression of trust of self, what shall occur is a turning of your perception.

Now; let me express to you in an analogy of gears. This movement that you create may be associated with a gear and your attention to emotional signals may be associated as another gear. View these two gears to be small gears which interlink with each other. A third gear, which is much larger, is your attention itself, and a fourth gear, which is equal size to the attention gear, may be identified as perception.

Now; the gear of attention directs the other gears. Therefore, the gear of attention moves and interlocks with specific grooves in the smaller gears. The action of the locking into grooves of this one gear, and in relation to the other gears, creates a movement into a specific gear and groove of the perception. It locks into that one groove, which continues to project a consistent expression and reality outwardly for the gears have locked, and the gears are directed by the attention.

Now; as you move the gear of attention, you interplay with other gears and move them into different positions. This automatically moves the gear of perception. Once the gear of perception is moved and directed in another direction, the reality which is expressed objectively - physically, outwardly - alters.

Now; as your attention locks into the gear of the signal of an emotional communication, it also locks the perception into a particular expression and projection. The significant aspect of self to allow yourself to be noticing is your attention, and where it is directed.

DEBI: I think my attention is directed a lot on discounting myself. It's funny, the gear analogy. It feels like I'm spinning my wheels a lot of times. (Laughing)

ELIAS: This is a familiar groove.

DEBI: Yes, it is! Not even spinning my wheels but literally stuck in a gear, and I can feel that. I can feel myself stuck, and it's like I want to take a big sledgehammer and just wham it.

ELIAS: But you are not stuck, you are moving. In relation to this analogy of the gears, you may associate this with your physical reality and your vehicle. As you engage a gear within the movement of your vehicle, it moves; but it continues to move in that particular gear and is limited to the movement of that gear.

DEBI: So if I simply move my attention, move the attention gear...

ELIAS: Shift.

DEBI: Shift! I love this analogy. Okay! Oh, Elias, thank you for that!

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

DEBI: This is so funny, because with my car I've had problems shifting gears for the last year and a half. (Elias laughs loudly) And I don't know if you're aware, but I've signed a couple of emails lately with the signature "in between gears, or shifting." (They both laugh) Oh, this is perfect. I love this! I love you!

ELIAS: Quite appropriate imagery that you present to yourself.

DEBI: Isn't it funny? I had a dream last night about my car, too. I can't remember what it was, but when you were telling me this I could feel gears meshing up inside me somehow. (Laughs)

ELIAS: It is quite similar in action, my friend. You may be shifting your vehicle into one gear and you may attempt to be forcing this vehicle to perform, in your terms, beyond that gear, and it shall continue to perform within that designated gear.

DEBI: Right! Oh, thank you for that.

ELIAS: And I shall express to you also, in pushing or forcing the vehicle to be performing within one gear outside of its capacity in that one gear, you shall also create the action of the vehicle ceasing to function. You create a similar action within yourself. As you continue to force movement within one groove of one gear, what you create is frustration and reinforcement of the very expression you wish to cease.

DEBI: Okay, I think I get it.

ELIAS: This to not to say you are not creating movement; you are.

DEBI: But it's not the type of movement that I desire to create. (Elias chuckles)

ELIAS: Ah, but it is, for it is gaining your attention, and it is offering you insight, so to speak, in relation to self.

DEBI: And I am becoming, in my own way, more comfortable with that. It's a process, I guess. Maybe it doesn't have to be a long, drawn out process; it's just a process. And I do feel movement. But I did feel as if there's something here I'm not getting, and I think you just really put it into perspective for me. We'll see, huh? (Laughs)

Let me ask you about something else then, and this also fits kind of nicely into the being stuck in a gear analogy. I've been spinning around a lot lately about getting a job and moving. I've been looking in my head and going, "Do I want to go here or do I want to go there - physically moving - and what job will I do?" - just a lot of spinning around. I feel like I've kind of locked onto moving to Castaic. I'm wondering, am I actually moving into that probability, or am I still spinning?

ELIAS: I may express to you, this is directly associated with your struggle in relation to trust presently. This is merely a choice, my friend. It matters not. You may offer yourself permission to be creating a choice that expresses a manifestation of your preference, but you struggle with actualizing the choice for you continue to struggle with the trust of self and the identification of the good choice or the bad choice, or the better choice or the worse choice.

DEBI: And I'm making no choice!

ELIAS: In relation to this particular subject matter, correct.

DEBI: So I just need to...

ELIAS: Examine self, examine your motivation, and pay attention to what you want and your preferences. Your preferences shall express to you clearer identifications of what you want.

DEBI: Okay ... maybe I just need to make a list (Elias chuckles) because I find my preference in different places. I guess that is kind of contradictory to preference, but in some respects it's almost like I have too many choices. It's exactly what you said - will I make the right one, the best one, the good one, the bad one. I just need to narrow it down to what I really prefer, and not worry about how it will come about?

ELIAS: And recognize that preference is not expressed in merely one direction. All of you create many, many, many preferences. What I am expressing to you is that in allowing yourself to pay attention and recognize what your preferences are, you shall also allow yourself to more clearly view what you want; for your wants, in actuality, shall reflect your preferences - in the genuine expression of your wants.

DEBI: Okay, that's what I needed cleared up. Oh, thank you. I don't know why when I talk to you everything sort of falls together. It may not stay there, but it does for a minute! (Elias laughs with Debi)

Let me see ... you know how it is, I ask so many questions and I talk to you all the time. Are you always there?

ELIAS: Yes.

DEBI: Do you hear ALL of that stuff I'm saying? (They both laugh) Oh, my goodness, you've got to be the most patient, understanding friend I've ever had in my life. (Elias laughs)

By the way, I asked you for an energy blanket and I think you gave me one, and it was really cool! (Elias chuckles) You know how I get, and I really needed that at the time, so thank you very much.

ELIAS: You are welcome.

DEBI: I have some questions about focus things. I had Lynda ask you if [name omitted] was one of my focuses and you had expressed no, he's not, but that I am interactive with him. I am having trouble connecting, and what I want to know is, why am I having so much trouble connecting with this focus?

ELIAS: This once again is another expression which relates to your challenge in trust presently.

Let me express to you, my friend, as any of you within physical focus choose a direction and a subject matter to be addressing to, dependent upon the intensity of your desire in addressing to that subject matter, you shall present to yourself many different avenues of expression in relation to that subject matter, not merely one. It shall be expressed in MANY areas of your focus.

DEBI: So it's just carry over of the trust issue.

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

DEBI: Well, I'll work on it. I'm not even going to give you an impression because I don't think it would be an honest one. I'll wait until our next conversation, okay?

ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well!

DEBI: I had this kind of emotional connection with the focus I hold with you, when I'm a physician and we're friends. I want to ask you, is his name Jean Dumont?

ELIAS: Yes.

DEBI: I love that name! Is it Jean-Luc Dumont?

ELIAS: Yes.

DEBI: Isn't that a beautiful name? (Laughs, and Elias chuckles) And the connection that I had, I want to verify that with you. It wasn't any imagery, but I had this feeling of being really pissed-off at you. That was your Elias focus, right?

ELIAS: Yes.

DEBI: I was pissed-off at you. I think I called you an imbecile (Elias chuckles), and it was like I loved you a whole lot and the things that I really loved about you were the very things that I knew were going to end up taking you away from me. I can almost hear myself yelling at you, "You imbecile, this is going to get you killed," and blah, blah, blah, but I knew inside that if you weren't that way you wouldn't be you and I wouldn't have loved you as much as I did, and it was a real conflict for me. Am I on the right track there?

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha! Yes, you are correct. And I may express to you that there are many other individuals that have expressed similar expressions of exasperation! (Laughs)

DEBI: Exasperation! It's that knowing ... it's like the person that you love to hate - not hate but, you know. It's just like, "Oh, god!" Good, then I'm on the right track there.

ELIAS: I have efficiently created this type of expression in many focuses! Ha ha ha!

DEBI: You have, haven't you? I just know that about you! Let me ask you about another one. I have an emotional kind of connection thing with Van Gogh, and I have a couple of questions about that. One is, this imagery I have is as if I was standing behind him looking over his left shoulder at his canvas, and it was just a huge eye looking back at me. From that I wondered if I might be a ... I can't think of the word. You know, he's not a focus of mine. What's the word, Elias?

ELIAS: No, you are not an observing essence. You do participate in focus with that individual quite briefly as an individual that occupies the same physical location of town, and in this you have allowed yourself the opportunity to view this artist in the action of painting.

DEBI: Ah, it was really neat. Then that would explain why there's a couple of his pictures that just really grab me, a couple of his paintings. One, it was like I was there. I didn't feel like I was him, but I felt like I had been in that exact same location, the café picture.

ELIAS: Correct.

DEBI: Okay, so I am in that location. Excellent!

I am completely drawn to the Marquis de Sade. Again, I don't feel that he's a focus of mine, but I'm wondering if it is the same kind of thing, that I'm in the same vicinity, same location, or does it just have to do with the general time period? It's kind of a loose connection. I can't pin it down.

ELIAS: You express a focus which occupies the same asylum.

DEBI: The same asylum?

ELIAS: Correct.

DEBI: Oh, that's so juicy isn't it? (Elias laughs) Can you tell me anything about that? Male, female?

ELIAS: Male.

DEBI: And I know, don't ask, just investigate, right?

ELIAS: Yes!

DEBI: Ooo, I love that! That is really juicy stuff. You know how I love that kind of stuff!

We're getting close to the end here, and I just have a couple of things I wanted to ask you about, a dream I had. Also, it occurred to me, are forms of prison a recurring theme with all of my focuses? I haven't actually connected with very many. I have, what, 2006 in this dimension and I've only connected with a few, but that seems to be a recurring theme within those.

ELIAS: Not necessarily prisons but similar types of institutions, yes.

DEBI: Okay, so the loose theme of imprisonment, not necessarily physical imprisonment, but I just have a feeling that throughout all of my focuses I explore the theme of different types of prisons.

ELIAS: Correct.

DEBI: Wow, I'm getting good, huh? (They both chuckle) Okay, this dream, let me run this one by you. In the midst of all of my spinning lately, this dream was actually itself quite pivotal to me busting loose a little bit from intense emotion.

Basically it started out a nomadic, biblical-type scenario. I know that I'm pregnant, and there's a lot of people and we're traveling. It sort of felt like Moses in the desert. Then all of a sudden we all end up at this big house in Australia, and we decide we're going to settle there, we're going to stay there. But I'm trying to make up my mind if I'll actually stay; I'm not convinced for sure. There's many people that live there, and they all seem to be very accepting and welcoming me in various degrees, and I wondered if these represented aspects of myself.

There's a big huge river there ... there are elements of this dream that are very drawing to me, but also kind of frightening elements. The river frightens me. There's this woman telling me that there are bugs there, this big bug, but I don't see it, and I kind of move away from that fear and it dissipates.

I know that throughout this dream that I'm deciding whether I'm going to stay or go, and I start to pretty much feel like I'm going to stay there. The fearful elements kind of disappear. Then suddenly I walk out, and there's this huge wonderful party going on out in the back. It's beautiful; it's huge. There's this big bar, and gold liquid in this large receptacle. Everyone's drinking and smoking and dancing, live music and all that.

Then I start dancing with this short dark man, and I see across the bar this dog-like individual. He's standing on two legs but he looks kind of like a dog. I approach him, and he has all these colored ribbons in his hair, and I'm watching him get into this car. I'm drawn to him, and I follow him and I open the door and see the most, I mean, hysterically funny ... I can't even believe it, Elias, it was the funniest face I've ever seen in my life. But the thing that stands out in this face is the eyes. They're bright blue and they're obviously intent on cracking me up, and we both are caught in the hysteria of the moment. I was laughing so hard I woke myself up. I woke up, and I felt like I had just been through some really big stuff. I felt like the dog with blue eyes was you.

ELIAS: You are correct. (Debi laughs) And I may express to you, quite simply, the imagery that you have presented to yourself in this dream is associated with your indecision in relation to the choice to be physically moving to new location.

DEBI: That's what I thought. And in the dream I decided, I think, that I would stay in the new location. (Laughs) I guess maybe I'll move - probably not to Australia, probably closer by here. (Elias laughs)

Well, I just have a couple of real quick last things for you. This is just your opinion; I just want your opinion. Don't you think that winning the Lotto would fit nicely into my intent?

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! Not necessarily.

DEBI: Oh, man! All right, that's a choice, right?

ELIAS: Quite!

DEBI: I knew you weren't going to say yes. (Elias laughs) Well then, we won't worry about that right now! I'll keep buying my Lotto tickets because I like the fantasizing part right before they draw the numbers; that's fun.

How about last thing we do a Game impression?

ELIAS: Very well.

DEBI: I was going to enter something with Ordin and myself, without a category for it; but I'll let it go for now. How about in the "Clichés" category, I'd like to enter "it's not the quantity but the quality that counts," under Vold.

ELIAS: Acceptable.

DEBI: All right! I guess that's all I have for now.

ELIAS: Very well, my friend. I shall be anticipating our next meeting objectively, and I shall continue to be playful with you within energy in the interim. Ha ha!

DEBI: Wonderful, I love that. Thank you so much, my friend.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome. As always, I offer to you affection and encouragement. To you, my friend, au revoir.

DEBI: Au revoir.

Elias departs at 1:56 PM.

(1) Debi's intent as stated by Elias is "...to be allowing yourself to create and explore and examine within your experiences the depths and the maneuverable avenues in the expressions of drama." (Session #745, 12/19/00)

©2002 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved

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Copyright 2001 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.