Thursday 13 May 2010 (Private in person)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Rodney (Zacharie).

(Elias’ arrival time is 7 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good morning!

RODNEY: Good morning to you. Long time no talk, one to one. Ha ha ha ha ha.

ELIAS; Ha ha ha. What shall we discuss?

RODNEY: Well, that’s the biggest question ‘cause I gotta a bunch of them, and I don’t know which one is going first. I think I’ll go first with, ah - you talked in the last group session about feelings and emotions and I had a very strong experience only a couple days ago.

I am watching a slide show on my computer. Maybe fifteen pictures. This guy in Alaska, I believe it was Alaska, found a dead grizzly and two really small cubs. He took the two cubs and raised them. One died, but he raised the other as a pet. Now, he’s got, you know, probably an eight-foot, six-seven-eight-hundred pound pet in the house. Ah, and you see them out in the fields kinda fooling around and, you know, kissing each other. That was fine. But then, I went to the next picture, and there was a Thanksgiving setting with the family around, maybe six, eight people. And the grizzly bear is standing on the far side of the table facing the camera.

I’m standing there looking at him and all of a sudden I am overcome with emotion or feeling. I want to talk to you about the meaning of those two words. But I’m overcome with this feeling - these sensations - and it’s kinda like joy but I’m not sure. I’m just hanging that word on it for lack of a better word. Ah, and I’m asking myself, “What’s this about? What’s the message? What am I telling myself ?”.

And it lasted because I didn’t try to stop it, and I kept asking the
question, not verbally, but intentionally. And I came up with, for lack of - I’m not really clear on this - something to do with the power of love, even between species. Ah, but really because I have other, other instances of humans interacting with animals on a friendship basis - whether I approve of this or not - because, you know, I don’t approve of doing that to a grizzly bear.

But my question to you is two fold: one is the sensations, the body sensations, are those what you call feelings or those what you call the emotion?

ELIAS: … feeling.

RODNEY: that’s the feeling.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: The emotion is not something you feel, but it is the process by which we receive the information?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Okay, good. I’m good on that. I trust that you have a sense of what I went through there. Can you help as to what is the information that I was attempting to give myself ?

ELIAS: Very well. I would express that your initial assessment is somewhat correct. Your evaluation that, perhaps, this was a recognition of an expression of love....

RODNEY: ....and the power of love....

ELIAS: .....yes. (Pause) I would express that it is more than that. That is a correct initial assessment.

RODNEY: This feeling was intense, Elias.

ELIAS: Regardless of whether you agree or approve of any particular actions or choices that individuals generate in different situations, that, in a manner of speaking, is irrelevant to what you recognized and, therefore, what you experienced. The message would be - emotional communication, let me express, firstly, is always very simple and concise. The message is not voluminous. It is not a philosophy. It is not a book.

RODNEY: Maybe just an acknowledgement of some sort?

ELIAS: The message is always a concise statement of what you are doing. Now, the message in that, in that moment, of what you were doing, was allowing yourself to experience even through a photograph, that expression of interconnectedness. Therefore, the message was: you are experiencing interconnectedness, genuine interconnectedness. That triggered an
intensity of a feeling. For the experience is significant, or what you would term to be very expansive.

RODNEY: Yes. Yes.

ELIAS: Therefore, to match that expansiveness, the feeling would be very strong. For the feelings are the indicator as to the action that is occurring and that determines the intensity of the feeling whether it is a slight feeling or whether it is an intense feeling. Now in this, let me also express an aside point, for feelings can become dull.

RODNEY: Dull?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: From, like, through repetitiveness?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: Feelings can initially be intense that matches a particular communication but [pause] that can change in two manners: one, it can increase. The feeling can increase if the message is not being received and if the message is important enough.

RODNEY: Um-hm, okay

ELIAS: Or, the feeling can dull if the message is not being received.

RODNEY: So either way.

ELIAS: Yes. If the message is not being received and you are consistently overriding it, you can become accustomed and familiar with the signal, the feeling, and therefore it can be dulled to the point in which you do not notice it any longer.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: But, in this particular experience....

RODNEY: ....neither of those happened.

ELIAS: Correct. And in this particular experience, this was an expansive experience, for it also involved triggering memory. Now, let me express to you that I have expressed that all of your experiences in this focus, in this lifetime, are stored in memory in the body consciousness, but you also incorporate memory that is associated not with this focus...

RODNEY: ...with other focuses.

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: Yes, I’m aware of that.

ELIAS: And your body consciousness holds those memories also.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: Therefore, you can trigger memories with the body consciousness and that can be an aspect of what is prompting the message of what you are doing.
Now, the message remains simple: you are experiencing that genuine interconnectedness. What is also involved in that, beyond the photograph, is your own experience also, of another focus in which you were more so in tuned with experiencing that interconnectedness and, the reason that the bear triggered that, rather than a different animal is that, that is the animal that was your symbol in that other focus.

RODNEY: Symbol?

ELIAS: Yes. In this, you incorporate another focus, a previous focus.

RODNEY: A what?

ELIAS: A previous focus....

RODNEY: Previous, yes.

ELIAS: ....as what you term to be Native American.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: And in that focus, you do incorporate encounters and experiences with bears.

RODNEY: All right.

ELIAS: In that, you also very much recognize your interconnection with the animal, with all of your reality and environment, also; but, very specifically with the bear. For in that focus, the bear is your individual symbol.

RODNEY: Of? Standing for? Expressing?

ELIAS: In different cultures, animals are incorporated as personal or individual symbols such as a totem.

RODNEY: Yeah.

ELIAS: It is the symbol that is associated with that individual’s energy.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: In that focus, your symbol was a bear which, in that, the reason it is chosen to be a particular animal is that the individual expresses a particular energy that you view as symbolized in that animal…as the animal incorporates that type of energy, such as, strength, power, swiftness.

RODNEY: Did the bear also express in some way, ah, wisdom?

ELIAS: [Pause] The bear was a symbol of protection,

RODNEY: Protection?

ELIAS: of a warrior...

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: ...in power and strength...

RODNEY: All right.

ELIAS: ...but also that aspect of protection in the nurturing and gentleness that is expressed by that animal in relation to family.

RODNEY: Right, okay.

ELIAS: Now, therefore, you view the photograph. That triggers a memory...

RODNEY: Right, okay.

ELIAS: ...which enhances the experience...

RODNEY: ...that I’m having...

ELIAS: ...of the interconnectedness. And, therefore, you are allowing yourself to feel and experience that interconnectedness now and enhanced by the experience that you incorporate in the other focus.

RODNEY: Okay. Let me ask you as this sounds similar. You recall I asked you about an experience I had with a young horse who attempted to jump a fence just to be with me and I felt a similar, now that I think of it, now that I recall the experience, I had this full... I was standing....I had this full body flush of emotion. Not emotion. feeling! And you told me at that time, that that horse had another focus which was MY horse in another focus and that I had real connection. My other focus had a real connection with the other focus horse.

ELIAS: [Nods] Correct.

RODNEY: Okay. Now, but there is also part of that message is also interconnectedness, is it not?

ELIAS: Yes. Yes, it is.

RODNEY: Now that I recognize it, the feelings were [in] some way, similar.

ELIAS: I would express to you within your reality, [pause] within your world, humans are the only species that are objectively more unaware and separated from that knowing of interconnectedness than any creature. Therefore, it is easiest for you to generate or to initiate that experience - or that remembrance - which remember, remembrance is not memory. But, to initiate...

RODNEY: By remembrance, you’re referring to a re-experience of something? Of someone?

ELIAS: What I am referring to is a state of being, of knowing.

RODNEY: Okay. Okay.

ELIAS: And in that, the easiest manner to experience that interconnectedness, is with animals.

RODNEY: Um hum.

ELIAS: For they experience that continuously. They live that.

RODNEY: I’m seeing that with my cat that you talked me into getting.

ELIAS: They are very aware of that interconnectedness.

RODNEY: Can I talk to you about my cat?

ELIAS: You may!

RODNEY: Mia. M-I-A. She drives me crazy.

ELIAS: Ha. Ha.

RODNEY: She’s not a lap cat. She won’t let me pick her up.....ah, pet her. She won’t stop moving, when I pet her. And she’s constantly rubbing, brushing up against my ankles or my shoes. Constantly! Or the chair of the leg. She just moves, moves, moves, moves, moves! I went away for three days and I let her alone for three days: all the food, all the water, all the kitty litter, everything she needs. Right. And, of course, when I come back, you know, she acts like she’s been tormented because I’m not there. I understand that and, I don’t know what else to do when I go away for two or three days.

Ah, but that night, when I lay down in bed, it’s an opportunity for her to walk on me. So she does. She walks from one side to the other side to the other side. She walks across me, you know. She likes to stand on me. And, I had my arms up over my head and she came up and she licked me under the armpit and then bit me. Really bit me! She didn’t draw blood or anything, but ah, I don’t know! You told me that if I got a creature, she would reflect my energy.

This is a level of interconnectedness that I’m really working on and trying to figure out what it’s all about. I need to tell you that.

ELIAS: [Laughs] Very well. And what is your confusion?

RODNEY: [Pause] Well, she, she demands my attention so much and I don’t give it to her so much. I actually give her a lot, but I don’t give her all she wants. And I, sometimes I feel guilty because I took her out of the fields and brought her into the house. I do have a little bit of guilt there and, ah, but I recognize that guilt is a worthless emotion and I’m accepting the fact that she chose to be with me. Um.....[pause] ....but I am experiencing interconnectedness with her. Am I not?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: Yeah, okay.

ELIAS: Let me inquire of you: if you were to assess yourself, would you express that YOU are a lap cat?

RODNEY: [Laughs] I have....[laughs].....this is not a surprise, Elias, I have thought of the same thing. I have said, “how much am I like this cat?”.

ELIAS: [Laughs] I would express to you, my dear friend, Zacharie, you also want and enjoy considerable attention. But, you are not necessarily an individual that wants to engage considerable physical contact. You want some, when you choose it. And in that, you [pause] want attention, consistently, but you also want attention in relation to what YOU want. Or what you are interested in. And SO does your feline.

RODNEY: [Laughs] Thank you for validating what I already suspected.

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha ha.

RODNEY: I didn’t want to say it out loud, though.

ELIAS: [Laughs] I would express to you, my friend, that there is no thing that is unusual or wrong with this particular cat, that she merely is choosing to be with you and she is reflecting you quite accurately.

RODNEY: How about the energy? Every - I would say two or three times a day, maybe - maybe not quite that much, ah, she becomes almost airborne, in her
running from one end of the house to the other.

ELIAS: Which is also quite so a reflection of you.

RODNEY: But...she, she knocked the screen out of the window!

ELIAS: [Animated] You view....you view in such black and white terms. Humans are SO very rigid and interesting in how black and white you VERY much are. You view the cat and its behavior and you view yourself and you think and you express, “How is this an expression of myself, or a reflection of myself ?” “I’m not this active!” But, aren’t you? Not physically, but within your thought processes, you very much are. I would express that in relation to thinking you generate the same action. At times, you can be quite dull and complacent in your thinking and not be generating much thought at all. And in other moments you may be racing back and forth and jumping through hoops - with your thinking.

RODNEY: Okay. Okay.

ELIAS: The cat does not think!

RODNEY: [Laughs]

ELIAS: [Animated] Not in the manner that you do. The cat does not analyze. Therefore, what shall the cat do that reflects what you are doing?

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: Run!

RODNEY: And she does!
ELIAS: And jump!

RODNEY: [Laughs] She does! Okay. Let’s move on.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: Um, I am, I have a very, ah, how do I put this? My focus in life has taken some dramatic changes. As evidence of this, I have placed some of the planets in our solar system in very auspicious positions relative to my natal chart, so to speak. Ah, and, ah, I’m becoming - have become - very aware of my body, my body consciousness.

ELIAS: Congratulations.

RODNEY: Thank you. In January of this year, four months ago - five months ago - I, quit smoking, except when I choose to do so. And so far this year, I’ve smoked less than two packs of cigarettes. So that’s quite unusual.

Even more unusual, I’ve have been, ah - for five months now - doing a morning regime of yoga and exercise and deep breathing plus the walks that you’ve suggested. And, ah, this is having a very significant, ah - well, it’s allowing me to express my body, physically, in what you would call more healthy ways.

Now part of this - I became aware a couple of years ago - that I was holding my shoulders very high. So much so that I - I’m aware of people’s body language and when I saw myself in some pictures - I could not believe how much energy was tied up in my shoulders.

I’ve been practicing, subsequent to that and before this, like, in the beginning of this regime I was doing, I made an attempt to stand, to relax, completely relax, my shoulders. I was aware that I was breathing into my upper lungs which is a sign of fear as opposed to breathing into the full upper-lower lung capacity. I attempted to breathe into my deep abdomen while standing and relaxing my shoulders.

And Elias, I was absolutely blown away. I couldn’t do it. It was actually, horribly difficult. Now that’s no longer the case. I don’t know if it’s the yoga, exercise, or what. I can now do it. But I almost have to concentrate on doing it. All right. And I
am, I am much less, there’s much less tension in the shoulders. And easier to breathe when I’m walking.

And maybe the question is inconsequential. Ahhhh, but the body consciousness - this, this tension in the shoulders - is associated with the body consciousness, with tension. Ah, what’s that all about? And what is the relaxing of that tension,
signify? Is this a meaningful question?

ELIAS: Yes. [Pause] It is meaningful in two aspects: one in regard to what an individual does and becomes accustomed to doing. And also, when that action is being generated from habit, and no longer being generated for the reason, which is what you have done.

You [pause] began generating this type of tension and this action with your body consciousness many, many many years previously in relation to pressuring yourself and in relation to responsibility: incorporating responsibility - your definitions of responsibility for yourself and incorporating responsibility for other individuals. But very much so in relation to yourself, which I incorporate that word of responsibility, loosely for that would be your definition of the perception. In actuality, what would be more accurate would be to express that you generated considerable expectations of yourself in what you should do, how you should do, and what you should be and how you should be and how you should express and how you should behave. And in that, you developed that pressure and those expectations of yourself at what you would term to be a considerably young age, for the most part as a young adult.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: But, you have carried that throughout most of your focus.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: Which, just as we expressed in the beginning of this conversation, you can generate signals and with some signals you can override them and they become dull and you do not notice them any longer.

RODNEY: Ah, right.

ELIAS: Which would be the situation with this in which you did generate body signals, but overrode them, for the personal expectations were strong and there was a very strong pressure to meet those expectations. And that continued throughout most of your focus, to the point where it became habit. It becomes habitual, holding that energy, holding that tension and not noticing it and not feeling it.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: Unless it increased, significantly, in brief time frameworks. But even in that, all that is addressed to is the surplus tension, not the ongoing tension. Therefore, in a particular moment in which the tension is increased, and you do feel that tension, for perhaps it begins to be painful, that may be addressed, but only to alleviate the pain, not to actually alleviate all of the tension. Therefore, the intensity is reduced to what you have habitually created as your normal which is the constant holding of that tension and energy.
Now, in recent time framework, you began to view yourself differently and see yourself more genuinely. Therefore, you began to notice, “Oh, there is actually a physical display of this tension that I did not notice previously!”. And, in that, you began to generate actions to intentionally, purposefully address to that and change that and to incorporate more of a relaxation intentionally, addressing to that tension which has become habitual. Now, in this, there is no longer that reason to be generating that. It is merely a habit now.

RODNEY: Okay. So, so the significance here is that I’m simply breaking an old habit.

ELIAS: Now, yes.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: For I would express to you that the actual reason for incorporating that tension stopped being a reason approximately, perhaps, four of your years previously.

RODNEY: Oh really?

ELIAS: Almost five.

RODNEY: That’d be about the time I stopped working.

ELIAS: Correct. And your reasons stopped, for those expectations and you began to move in different directions. You did generate a beginning in new actions and new directions at that time. You were not yet noticing all of that tension that had become habit. And once the reason stopped for the expectations, the tension continued in merely habit.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: Now, subsequent to that, you began to notice that you were generating this tension and it is quite understandable that you would question “why” you are generating all of this tension when it does not appear that actually incorporate a
reason. For you do not actually incorporate a reason other than habit.

RODNEY: Son of a gun.

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha. Therefore, I would acknowledge you that there is no significant issue occurring. It is merely a matter of habit and readjusting that habit.

RODNEY: Okay. And being more relaxed.

ELIAS: Ha ha ha. Yes.

RODNEY: About relaxation, all right, which I guess I put a bottom priority on it. I’ve noticed things happening in my body and sending me messages. Well, one of them is - and this is the darnedest thing - I’ve been meditating on a regular basis. And I’ve become aware of the fact that the thumbs on my hands are not relaxed. They’re being held in an outward position. Now, my thumbs are very unique. All right? They bend backwards. Like most people cannot bend their thumbs backwards anywhere near as much as mine can. They say that signifies something. I’m not sure what.

But, anyway, here I am meditating and all of a sudden I become aware that my thumbs, I can feel that they’re being held out there, so I purposely relax them which is just think about ‘em. What’s the message there?

ELIAS: That is also the residual of the habit.

RODNEY: Of expectation?

ELIAS: The habit!

RODNEY: The habit of....?

ELIAS: ....of holding the tension without a reason.

RODNEY; ...without a reason?

ELIAS: It is habit. Now, and once again, you generate the idea that if you address to tension, and you begin to view an alteration; and perhaps even a significant alteration in which you are releasing tension and you can see this, you also once again expect that it is done. And that every aspect of your body consciousness now has received the message to stop generating this habit - and to relax.

RODNEY: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Easier for me to give up smoking, right!

ELIAS: Ah. But I would express that this is significant progress for that is a very small display of tension that you notice only your thumbs holding that rather than your hands, your arms, your shoulders, your neck, your torso, your hips, your legs, your feet! Now it is merely your thumbs! Ha ha ha. And now that is quite easy to address to.

RODNEY: I give myself a point.

ELIAS: Ah! And so shall I!

RODNEY: Ha ha ha ha.

ELIAS: Ha ha ha ha.

RODNEY: I don’t know, we got a little bit of time here, ah, might not be able to finish this, but it is totally tangent to what we’ve been talking about.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: My understanding of your prior comments is imagination is similar to impressions, impulses, emotions, inner senses, etcetera, in that it is a conveyance of information.

ELIAS: It is a communication avenue, yes.

RODNEY: It’s an avenue of communication.

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: All right. I wrote this sentence down. I forget who you were talking to. Oh, I think his name is Frank. “Now; as you drift within your thought process,” he sounds like he’s thought-focused, ”what you are expressing to yourself is an identification of an allowance for that avenue of communication to be expressed, but not necessarily directing your attention to it; therefore, your translation becomes scattered” I believe in this statement that you are discussing imagination. Right? Correct?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: …because, being thought-focused, that’s an aspect of my being that’s never silent. I guess? I guess. I don’t know what it’s like to be religiously focused or something else. But my thoughts just don’t stop. I can remember when I was eighteen in the United States Navy under highly unusual conditions, that my thoughts were almost like animals running around in my head. It was painful. The act of thinking was actually painful, it was so intense.

That was only for a brief period of my life but, yes, I am very thought-focused.
And I’ll see something on the side of the street - case in point - I was driving down the street I almost live on, it’s right around the corner. There was a car parked in the road, there’s a girl standing on the sidewalk and there’s a conversation. Do you know it was either the body consciousness, the juxtaposition of the car, etceteras, I thought it was the girl’s parents telling her
something, I don’t know what? But my mind went and created this entire scenario. It’s like a movie. Right? And that’s, that’s an experience I have of life all the time. It just flows.

And the idea that imagination .... how does that …. I’m trying to put a handle on what imagination is. I’m trying to identify it like I can identify a glass [Picks up and puts down glass.] and put my hands on it and say, “that’s imagination!”.
If I’m not mistaken, my life is a whirlwind of imagination?

ELIAS: I would agree.

RODNEY: I mean, my dreams. Ah, you know I lie in bed for hours with these vague dreams going on. It never stops.

ELIAS: And some individuals would be quite envious for some individuals do not exercise imagination very much, if at all. But, I would agree. You are allowing your imagination to be expressive and to be generated very frequently and very consistently.

RODNEY: But give me....

ELIAS: ...I encourage many individuals to activate their imagination in directions that you think of as fantasy to encourage them in more creative manners. For there are many individuals that have allowed their imagination and their creativity to almost atrophy. You engage your imagination very frequently.

RODNEY: It overflows.

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: It’s a fountain! I once attended a workshop where he took people like me and people like what you’re describing that had no imagination and they put us one on one. This guy was a typical Northern European - I’ll say German - ‘cause I got a lot of German in me. And he ran a print shop. And he had a problem. And he described the problem to me. And this was a big, big deal for him! Something that was happening in his workshop that he - was driving him crazy that he had no way to create it. And it was kinda like an exercise in, “what would you do?

Elias, it was like, I couldn’t believe that this guy was allowing this problem to exist. There had to be a dozen ways to resolve it. Right? I just looked at it, and I said, “Well” - I wanted to be kind, I didn’t want to say “you’re stupid” or anything, so I said - “Did you ever think of doing this......ba bump ba bump ba bump?”

Elias, he almost fell off his chair! “What a brilliant idea! I never thought of that!”

ELIAS: And with you it seems so simple.

RODNEY: Yeah! Like how can people not think of things like that? I guess I think everybody else is like me.

ELIAS: And that is not unusual.

RODNEY: And then when I run across a person like that, it’s like, “Oh, my God”! They live in a very ...

ELIAS: rigid, very black and white and very absolute...

RODNEY: world.

Okay, about focusing this imagination because that’s, that’s a challenge I have. Because it’s a fountain that’s shooting off in every different direction. From experiences in the past, I have used auto-hypnosis to promote certain beliefs in me with some satisfaction. It worked. And I would replay the tape....and, and the first time I did it, it didn’t sound like I was very confident. But after I listened to it a little bit more, I made another tape and I would feel a little bit more confident and I believed in it more strongly. And I would keep making tapes like that.

The idea of using imagination to alter perception of reality and create my reality - my material world. That’s what I’m getting at If - and I never knew this before - it’s only just coming to me, how powerful my imagination is compared to other people’s. I just didn’t know that. I guess that’s one reason I’m a trained mathematician, because I can think of so many different ways of looking at a problem. Can you suggest a really good way to kinda tame this imagination? Or, focus it?

ELIAS: Express to myself, first of all, what is your motivation to focus it and what would be your motivation to tame it?

RODNEY: Well, it’s not about.... yeah, tame is a bad word. I don’t want to tame it. I don’t want to tame it. I want to use it.

ELIAS: How do you want to focus it? In what capacity? You are already using it.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: Therefore, I would express to you, how do you want to use it that you are not already doing?

RODNEY: Okay, this is a big deal. A big question and the time is up. The alarm is ringing. Ha ha ha ha. And I suspect I need to spend more time with that. You, you have just, you know, what you’ve just told me kinda shifts my perspective a little bit, relative to my own imagination.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: So, I want to spend some time on that, and then maybe dedicate another session to it.

ELIAS: Very well. And we shall engage that. Ha ha ha ha ha.

RODNEY: I really appreciate this session. It’s been a long time since you and I had a long one.

ELIAS: And I express tremendous appreciation, to you also, my dear friend. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

RODNEY: Thank you. Thank you.

ELIAS: And I shall greatly be anticipating our continued discussion. Ha ha.

RODNEY: Good. Good.

ELIAS: To you, in tremendous encouragement, as always...

RODNEY: Thank you.

ELIAS: .....and a recognition that you already are channeling your imagination. Therefore, this is a significant question to ponder. Ha ha.

RODNEY: Okay.

ELIAS: To you, my dear friend, in tremendous affection and great lovingness, as always, au revoir.

RODNEY: Au Revoir.

(1) See

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Copyright 2010 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.