Thursday, December 18, 1997        © 1997  (Private)
Participants:  Mary (Michael), Vicki (Lawrence), and Norm (Stephen).
Elias arrives at 7:33 PM. (Time was seventeen seconds)

ELIAS:  Good evening.  (Smiling at Norm)

NORM:   Good evening, Elias.  There are several subjects I'd like to talk about.  First I would like to talk about the experiment and some of my ideas and some of my dreams. I had a dream last night about it.  I suppose what I'd like to talk about is the philosophy of how to carry on the experiment.  My idea had been that the concept of consciousness with everything ... that the photons or the bosons or the fermions always have a choice in doing things, and that if the experimental setup is correct, then the probability of those things leaving this particular dimension is high enough that it can be monitored with experimental equipment, and I wanted to do that in a fashion that kind of goes along with your statement that there are no closed systems.  That statement, if I interpret it according to physics, means that some of the conservation laws of physics are not strictly true: the conservation of mass, the conservation of energy, the conservation of charge, and so on and so forth.  That would be a wonderful thing for an experiment to show, that indeed there are time segments where those conservation laws are not strictly valid.  Is that a legitimate thing to experimentally work on?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Okay.  It's really fascinating to think about the gestalt of links in a particle or an atom and how they work together and form that particle or atom, and also have perhaps a group consciousness, I would imagine.  Am I on the right track there?

ELIAS:  It is a cooperation.

NORM:   A cooperation.  That's a general statement, a general law, right?  There's no separateness, so to speak, but yet there IS some separateness.

ELIAS:  Correct, although this would not be a LAW, but you are correct in your assumption.

NORM:   Okay.  The gestalt has the ability to do certain things, evidently; and I and others, as essence consciousness, we're in a sense creating ... I am creating the experiment.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   And my expectations, are they the thing that is going to be proven?  But if the expectations are not according to the physics of reality, that won't be shown then, will it?

ELIAS:  Let me express to you that within your creation of reality and of the elements within physical reality, essence creates this physical reality. In this there exists a cooperation of consciousness to be performing within guidelines that you have created for mass, for matter, for your time continuum.  Although consciousness -- the links of consciousness -- hold free will and may respond at times in what you consider to be irrational, they also respond in manners that you have created within your time element.  Therefore, they are not as unpredictable as you may think.

NORM:   So they respect the elements of our time and our mass and our general physical laws.

ELIAS:  Correct; although they also move beyond these, for you have not discovered all of the elements of your sciences yet and all of the elements of your reality, for you do not take into consideration within your sciences the reality of consciousness and its free will.

NORM:   Right.  That is precisely the thing, precisely the idea or the concept that I want to explore in experiments.  It's frustrating to me.  From the experiments that have been done, it appears that if in a previous increment of time ... time moves on.  However, in a previous increment of time, after a period of time, after a time has been passed, then if something has changed that would have made their position not the correct position, then they have the opportunity to do things that they normally don't do.  For example, in the photon experiment of John Wheeler's idea, where the photon went through the slits and one of the slits was closed -- after the photon went through the slit but before it got to the photographic plate it was closed -- and the photon says, "I'm going to leave this particular dimension and perhaps go into a very close parallel dimension through a minor veil," so to speak.  Am I correct in talking about minor veils?  Close, probable realities?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   It was like when I was ... you indicated earlier when I asked the question of when I was sixteen and I felt that there could have been a split, and indeed, there was another Norm Farb in a parallel dimension that became a vase artist.  And of course, this goes on and on and on and on, and there's an immense number of these close, probable realities.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   And these particular free-will experiences that every link wants to do ... it sure has a hell of a lot of them to go through all the time!  Can it see the other close, probable dimensions?

ELIAS:  Yes.

NORM:   So it can look over there and say, "Well, I'm tired of this.  It's more fun to be over here."  Right?  Almost that way, right?

ELIAS:  The links of consciousness exist simultaneously within ALL realities.  (Pause)

NORM:   I don't know if I understand that, or if I did understand it I don't know if I would believe it!  But you say that one link goes through all realities?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Incredible!

ELIAS:  They exist not merely within knowledge, but they exist within all realities simultaneously.

NORM:   The original creation!

ELIAS:  Therefore, it is merely the direction of its attention that creates it within matter or mass or speed within any one particular physical dimension.

NORM:   Huh!  It exists simultaneously in all.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Because there's only now.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Huh!  And it goes where its attention goes.  Now, that's for each link.  But for example, an electron, you said, has over a million links in it.  Those links are linked together consciously.  Is that true?

ELIAS:  In a manner of speaking, in a cooperation.

NORM:   In a cooperation to form an electron.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   And to keep that electron going during this blink period for this particular dimension?

ELIAS:  It is the focus of the attention, which is a cooperation in cooperation with you as essence to be materializing, that you may view within your time element.

NORM:   Um-hmm.  One of the questions that I wanted to ask ... it evidently is quite often true that we as focuses here, in our developments, we have an analog to true reality.  How close is the analog of the wave function?  The quantum mechanical wave function, being obviously steered by essence consciousness and the probability of that wave function ... and the wave function was declared to exist everywhere.  Of course, that was assumed to be in this dimension, but if you integrated it over all space you would come out to a peak in a local area, and that would be where, for example, the wave function for an electron would be.  So the wave function, being that it was over all space, which now should include all dimensions, that would then mean that the links are of course over all dimensions too, over all reality, and that if you square and integrate the wave function over all space, you come up with the location where it is mostly probable.  Do we steer something like this as essences, as focuses, as consciousnesses of our level of consciousness?  Do we steer all of that?  Is that a good analogy, this wave function idea?

ELIAS:  Within THIS dimension.

NORM:   Within THIS dimension it is, but there would be different wave functions or different concepts in other realities.

ELIAS:  Correct; and there is no point.

NORM:   There is no point.  Yeah, there's a fuzzy....

ELIAS:  There is no CENTRAL point ...

NORM:   There is no central point?

ELIAS:  ... of your wave function.

NORM:   Huh!  Mathematics -- I asked you the question once, and you sure got me going!  It has no meaning with essence because of the fact that -- I think I may finally understand it -- that you don't need it.  You're too damned bright!  Is that it?

ELIAS:  It is a language.

NORM:   It's a language that you just perform automatically.

ELIAS:  The function is within energy.  It requires no thought.

NORM:   Yeah.  Well, if you wanted to, you could create whatever you wanted to and see if it worked!

ELIAS:  Precisely.  Mathematics is relative to physical focus.

NORM:   The what is?  The methods?  The mathematics is.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Right.  So is the idea, though, of the choice after something happens, the thing that I have to have as part of the experiment ... I woke up, and I'm starting to wake up like I used to in the middle of the night and things float in my mind and they materialize.  I mean, the ideas come from obviously what I have been working on in my dreams, and that is true?  (Elias nods)  That is true.  Okay.

Now, I have wanted to produce a vacuum system that will allow me to have gasses of one kind or another, either gasses that are gasses at room temperature or I could elevate the temperature and have low vapor pressure elements such as barium, and I could be using them to produce a stream of very massive fermions, complicated fermions, and the reason why I wanted to do that is for the determination of the lack of closedness of this particular dimension.  Of course, if I did it with something that would condense as it hit a target rather than being evaporated again, such as any of the noble gasses or hydrogen or oxygen or nitrogen or just any of the gasses ... but the gases are easier to work with.  I've been trying to follow your hint in regard to making it quite fluid, and so I thought of almost like a sprinkler system.  The gas stream would be hitting a double gear-like thing, very lightweight, that would open and close the stream.  In other words, you would see pulses of this.  I woke up with that idea, and then for some reason I came up with the fact that I could put -- as if this were a cylinder and the little wheels were on the inside of that -- on the other side of that wheel, downstream from that, would be a closed cylinder.  I got the idea that if I did this and I had another sensor on the inside of this closed system, after a period of time these particles may go into another dimension, but come back into the other closed cylinder.  (Elias nods)  Is that right??

ELIAS:  Correct.  (Grinning)

NORM:   No shit!  (A silent pause, and then Elias blows a puff of air at Norm, which is a "blow you away" thing, and Norm starts cracking up)  That's fun!  Well, let me see here.

VICKI:  I don't get it!  (Elias is grinning at Norm)

NORM:   What?!  I mean, this is great!  By the way, can you see what I'm thinking about?

ELIAS:  In a manner of speaking.

NORM:   Okay.  Of course.  You can see everything!  (Laughter)

ELIAS:  Not entirely!  (Grinning in a very amused sort of way)

NORM:   Let's see.  The timing of this ... I'm going to be working, and then the timing of this would be within minutes of returning, or seconds or microseconds, would you think?  If I get down to less than a tenth of a microsecond, then the instrumentation really starts costing me a lot of money, and I would like to do it as elegantly as I can and as simply as I can, to get this thing going.  Can you give me some idea of how long it would take to come back from the nearest reality?

ELIAS:  There are variables within this area.  This be your time element.  Within your experiment, it is possible that the return may be within fractions of seconds, but it may also be within a few seconds.  It shall not be within minutes, but it may vary within more than one second and fractions of a second.

NORM:   The quantum mechanical barrier of this cylinder ... I imagine it as completely closed.  Well, I guess you could compute it with quantum mechanics due to the thickness and the energy required to penetrate that, but that alone is quite remarkable.

ELIAS:  (Grinning)  They are not moving THROUGH your material.

NORM:   I know!  I understand, but trying to calculate this with our mathematics and our quantum mechanics is not possible then, or it's not valid or accurate.

ELIAS:  It is valid.  It is merely not accurate.  (Norm laughs)

NORM:   Okay, okay.  The equation should be changed, or the concept should be....

ELIAS:  Not necessarily.  You merely affect the choice of the particles with the construction of your instrument.

NORM:   Hmm!  Should I have something that they like to get inside?

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  They are cooperating with you ...

NORM:   Should I have pictures of pretty girls inside?

ELIAS:  (Laughing)  This would be your choice!  It matters not within consciousness!  (Norm is cracking up)

NORM:   Okay!  But there may be something interesting for them to look at.

ELIAS:  No.

NORM:   No.  Well, why would they want to come back?

ELIAS:  Within cooperation of your experimentation, and within the cooperation of consciousness to you as the observer.

NORM:   The gestalt of essences that have formed this dimension and this set of multidimensions have, as you indicated I believe in the last few weeks ... I don't want to say constraints and restrictions, but allowances and certain expectations -- allowances, I guess, it's the best word -- of how this dimension is to operate, and this dimension is essentially going to start to modify those allowances as a fundamental ... like a gravitational constant, as we would think of the general theory of relativity.  Is that....

ELIAS:  In a manner of speaking, yes.

NORM:   Consciousness ... for example, there are certain properties.  I mean, you could have properties like color or sound, but I'm sure there are properties that I have no idea what they are, but would there be an infinite set of properties for a link?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Jesus!  It's beautiful, fabulous, this totality of creation!  You must even have a little awe of it too, do you not?

ELIAS:  It is magnificent!

NORM:   It is magnificent, yes.  Nice word!  And that allows essences to create ANYTHING that they like ...

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   ... any dimension, and new dimensions are being formed ...

ELIAS:  Continuously.

NORM:   ... continuously.  Isn't that beautiful!  Are you surprised at some of them?

ELIAS:  "Surprised" would be inaccurate ... but within a state of wondrous amazement within becoming continuously.

NORM:   It is.  It certainly is.  I guess I had known ... I realized when I was thirteen-and-a-half the total incompleteness of our religious concepts and ideas.  I mean, it was trivial, absolutely trivial in regard to the wondrous reality that truly exists.  I hope you don't mind me saying that!

ELIAS:  It matters not, although your religious elements have served you well within this focus and within your history within this dimension.  You merely are opening now to a more expansiveness to your creativity.

NORM:   Another thing that I'm kind of curious about ... because I thought you said that this particular dimension, of course, is more complicated or more elaborate, but that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the relationship of this particular dimension to the close probable dimensions that are experiencing a differentiation from this one.  The origination of the differentiation into different probable realities ... does that start here in this particular dimension?  That's what I had the idea that you were saying, and I'd like to know if that is the correct way or if it is not correct.  I have a feeling it's not really correct.

ELIAS:  Not entirely.  (Pause)  You think singularly in the terms of your attention, which your attention is focused here and it is focused singularly.  You do not view all of the other aspects of yourself.  Therefore, you also do not view all of the other aspects of your reality and all of your probable realities.  These ARE what you have described as being merely separated from you by very thin veils.  They are dimensions within this dimension.  They are not OTHER dimensions of other physical realities.  They are all a part of THIS particular dimension and reality.  They are all affecting and exchanging and intertwining with you within every moment.  You merely do not allow yourself to view this action.

NORM:   For example, if I did view it, they would be kind of grayish-like, not full color?  I guess maybe I wouldn't have the capability of seeing that in full color, as some have indicated.  Rob and Jane evidently had seen that when they were dancing that one night on their vacation in Maine, I believe it was, but that's the sort of thing.  Their reality ... for example, the vase Norman.  His reality to him is just like this reality, right?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   And so there's no one reality that is the "lead" reality?

ELIAS:  Correct.  It is within your attention.

NORM:   Within my attention.  In all of the probable realities....

ELIAS:  This be different from aspects.

NORM:   How is that different?

ELIAS:  In this sense, you are creating and you are the main focus.  YOU are creating of probable realities.

NORM:   And the vase Norman is doing the same thing?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Ah, okay.

ELIAS:  Aspects are all of the you's of you.

NORM:   Right.  Now that makes sense!

ELIAS:  The reason you do not allow yourself within physical focus to view all of your aspects of an individual focus is that you direct your attention for the purpose of your identity singularly.  If viewing the numberless aspects of one focus, your identity would become confused.

NORM:   But when I sleep, that's a different level of consciousness.  So, I can handle that.  Is that true?

ELIAS:  Not entirely.

NORM:   Not entirely.  But the vase Norman, he and I can communicate quite easily?

ELIAS:  If you are so choosing.

NORM:   I see.  And does that harm each one?

ELIAS:  No.  These are aspects within THIS particular focus.  Therefore, they are all you, in differentiation to other focuses, which are not you ... but are!  (Grinning)

NORM:   But are!  (Laughing)  There's no separateness.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   The physics of all of these closely-veiled dimensions, would that be considered closed?

ELIAS:  No.

NORM:   THAT is not even closed because the links span every and all dimensions.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:  It's interesting that even the smallest is allowed the greatest, isn't it?

ELIAS:  Absolutely.  There is no element within consciousness that is greater than any other element.

NORM:   Not even essence?

ELIAS:  No.

NORM:   It's because of the fact that there's different properties?  Why would you say that?

ELIAS:  There are differentiations within consciousness as to function, as to tone; but there is no element within consciousness that is greater than any other element.

NORM:   The immenseness of properties or capabilities is huge with any of them.

ELIAS:  Correct; boundless.

NORM:   Even ten to the ten to the two hundred -- the immense number -- even that is trivial.

ELIAS:  Quite!  It is as one.

NORM:   As one!  (Laughing)  Okay!  Or if you divide that by the true number, it's zero!

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Correct!  Let's see here.  Great session!  I am starting to realize that there are certain aspects of my personality that I consider inefficient and I'm starting to change them, but I sometimes kick my wife doing it, and I kicked her last night and she wasn't too happy about that.  I seem to be fighting.  I either am boxing with somebody or kicking with somebody, and I guess it's a....

ELIAS:  This may be quite troublesome within physical focus!

NORM:   (Laughing)  I guess what I'm trying to do ... I have an inefficiency of some negative thoughts that I am trying to get over in regard to relationships with other people, and I don't understand why I have to wind up fighting with people.  Can you help me out there, or am I to find this out for myself?

ELIAS:  This is influenced by your belief systems, and in attempting to be dealing with your belief systems, you are struggling.  If you allow yourself an ease and an acceptance that your belief systems are not BAD, you may relax your focus in this area and not be struggling quite so intensely.

NORM:   I've done that in certain areas.  I know how it feels when you do that.  It's efficient to do it that way, but I WANT to change.  Want -- bad word!  I don't think I need to think negative thoughts about other people, and it's just not efficient to do it.  They can be what they want to be.

ELIAS:  Acceptance 102!

NORM:   Yeah, acceptance.  Absolutely!  They can do whatever the hell they want, and it's alright with me!  I guess I would like to ... I'm an emotionally-focused individual, which is efficient, as you've said before.  It also carries a responsibility, I suppose.

ELIAS:  ALL focuses carry responsibility.

NORM:   Would you define that?  Why?

ELIAS:  Every individual holds the responsibility within information to be expressing from essence.  No one type of focus holds any more responsibility than any other focus.

NORM:   What would be a responsibility, as an example?

ELIAS:  That you are recognizing belief systems, that you are recognizing whatever information you hold, be it this information or other information, and that you are expressing inwardly and outwardly from essence, being accepting of self and others.  This is your responsibility.

NORM:   Alright.  That's the primary one.

ELIAS:  It is quite difficult, for it is contrary to the belief systems that you have acquired throughout your focus.

NORM:   And you're saying "you" as any one of us?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   You often use "you" that way.

ELIAS:  Correct.  I am not speaking singularly to you, Stephen.

NORM:   I understand.  It's the plural you.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   It's the all-encompassing you.  But that's just one of the responsibilities.  What would be another one?

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  You may begin with this, for this is enough!

NORM:   Okay, alright.  Well, that's fair.  The responsibility in the concept of no right or wrong, to me, had a contrariness that just didn't fit, and I'm trying to resolve that, is really what I'm trying to do.

ELIAS:  I have expressed for the benefit of your understanding that elements exist beyond your particular physical focus; that within ESSENCE there exists no right or wrong, good or bad.  Within your particular reality within this dimension, you have created very base belief systems of right and wrong and good and bad, and these ARE your reality.

NORM:   Alright.

ELIAS:  I merely express these concepts to you that you may widen your awareness and view that there is more beyond your belief systems, and offer you this information that you may expand your awareness and open to your periphery and incorporate more awareness that may be affecting of your belief systems and helpful to you in accepting these belief systems.  If you are not viewing these belief systems so very intensely as right or wrong, you shall move into an area of more ease in accepting these belief systems; but as you hold so very tightly to your base belief systems of right and wrong and good and bad, you also hold very tightly to other belief systems.

NORM:   I see.  I'm beginning to see.

ELIAS:  Many individuals misunderstand and misinterpret these statements that I offer to you in the areas of right and wrong.  I express this to you many times to loosen your hold on these belief systems that you have.

NORM:   Well, I think I'm starting to.  The veils, they're associated with a blink?  The near-veils.  I'm trying to get the physics of the blinks and the veils together.  Can you help me there?

ELIAS:  The blinking is associated with OTHER areas of consciousness and other realities, other dimensions.  The veils that exist between you -- that you recognize as you -- and all of your aspects are not relative to the blinking.

NORM:   Really!  There's just that many dimensions available, then?

ELIAS:  You blink to be simultaneously interactive with all OTHER dimensions and areas of consciousness.

NORM:   Right, and....

ELIAS:  It is unnecessary for this action with aspects of THIS particular focus, for they are interactive with you continuously.

NORM:   But we blink with our entire ... we blink simultaneously ...

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   ... with our complete set of ...

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   ... close dimensions.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   What would be a good term for this close set of dimensions?  Local?  In these local multidimensions?

ELIAS:  All of the aspects of YOU within this focus.

NORM:   Alright, okay.  Aspect dimensions?  My aspect dimensions?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   That's a good way of saying it!  When I express a different form of consciousness ... when I sleep, I interact with all these aspects?

ELIAS:  You interact with all of these aspects in every state that you allow yourself; waking, dreaming, and what you term to be altered states.  You are interactive and intermingled with all of your aspects within every moment of your existence.

NORM:   Huh!  Are any other me's talking to another you?

ELIAS:  I am aware of all of your aspects.

NORM:   And they're not.  Are they good people?  (Laughter)

ELIAS:  Ah!  Here we enter a very interesting belief system!

NORM:   Well, I'm sure I've got a few gamblers and thieves and thugs!

ELIAS:  You hold whatever you choose to be creating!  Every aspect of you may be compared, and beyond, to every thought that you may ever express!

NORM:   Isn't that awesome!

ELIAS:  We shall break, and you may continue with your questioning.

NORM:   Alright, thank you.

BREAK   8:28 PM
RESUME  9:05 PM (Time was five seconds)

ELIAS:  Continuing.

NORM:   The subject of duplicity has been around here for a few weeks or a few months and so on and so forth, and it certainly....

ELIAS:  A few millennium!  (Much laughter)

NORM:   Forever, then!  Not quite forever, but a long time!

Cathy and Mary and I were talking about it earlier and I certainly appreciate some of their comments, but ... we were talking about, for example, positive thinking, and that you can do things and that your restrictions that you place on yourself are really as a result of duplicity.  The ability to recognize, I suppose, your true talents and your true capabilities, one certainly has a difficult time doing that.  I think it's a glorious thing to think of all of the parts of me.  I think that one would certainly have to appreciate all of the aspects of oneself and the probable realities and your capabilities in order to arrive at the point where you will be, I suppose.  Truly, when you're into the shift, you're going to do that, right?  I mean, that is truly what's going to happen in the shift?  In fact, it's probably the most important thing that is going to happen in the shift, in regard to human personality and interaction and so on.  I think it's marvelous that, so to speak, the constants of this reality are going to be "dialed" so that we can have less duplicity.  Am I saying that right?  That things are going to be loosened and that this is an agreement of all consciousness, that we will more easily facilitate this understanding of duplicity?  It's kind of like a background, knob-twisting here by all of us together, isn't it?  Am I saying that right?

ELIAS:  You will be eradicating duplicity.

NORM:   Eradicating?  Oh, that's a heavy word!  Okay, along with that goes this responsibility that you were talking about earlier in the session, because we're going to have capabilities that are much greater than what we have today.

ELIAS:  They will be realized.  You will hold the same capacity that you hold now, but you do not realize your capabilities presently.

NORM:   I let my imagination wander, and it really comes up with an earth that is most gorgeous and most beautiful.  And it will be that, will it not?

ELIAS:  What you may imagine, you may create.

NORM:   And what we together imagine, we will create.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   So, eradicating duplicity will mean that we can really have the capability of seeing all our aspects and probable selves.  Is that true?

ELIAS:  Correct.  The action of this shift holds no place for duplicity.  The action of this shift is to realize and actualize a more comprehensive expansion of your abilities and your creativity within this dimension; a realization of self and a remembrance of essence.

NORM:   We're interested in conservation here on this earth, and one of the things that I was concerned with was the decision, evidently, by the Australian aborigines not to have any more children; those aborigines that have not "westernized," so to speak, the ones that are still in the desert.  Have they done that with knowledge that the shift is going to come about, or was that independent of that information?  Were they aware of the shift, of the shift to come?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   They were aware of it, and they decided not to take part in it as a tribe.  I'm curious to know why they decided not to do that.

ELIAS:  They have not chosen to be not participating.  They are lending energy to the accomplishment, but en masse they also have realized their own value fulfillment.

NORM:   Interesting.  And they can lend energy to this shift in non-physical focus?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   And their value fulfillment....

ELIAS:  They have already lent energy to the accomplishment of this shift presently.

NORM:   And they were significant in doing that, then?  I mean, they were an important feature?

ELIAS:  You are ALL significant!  (Laughter)

NORM:   I know!  I can never get relative things out of you!  I guess that duplicity is one of those areas that you work on and you let it come, so I guess I'll let that come.  (Elias nods)

It's certainly interesting, this "letting things arrive."  My belief systems in the area of physics tell me to do certain things, and they're quite ordered and structured.  And then you came along and last Sunday night or whenever and said that it should be more fluid, and I thought back on the rigidity that I had in the experiment that I was going to do.  That rigidity -- and I'm sure you know of that experiment; I had kind of written it in my notebook, and of course I had it in my head -- was the thing that wouldn't make it work as well as the one that I had the dream of last night.

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   The forcefulness is not the way to interact with reality, in a sense.

ELIAS:  You may if you are so choosing, but you also create a thickness within your reality if you are forcing.  You allow yourself much more ease in allowing the flow.

NORM:   Most all physics experiments are by forcing, aren't they?

ELIAS:  Quite rigid.

NORM:   Quite rigid.

ELIAS:  You limit yourselves with your rigidity.

NORM:   Isn't that a marvelous piece of information!  I had talked to you a few weeks ago in regard to how I think of myself.  I don't know if I ... when I do things ... now, the interaction with thought and belief systems is almost inseparable.  It IS inseparable.  My concept of myself was that I was a ball about the size of my fist here in the middle of my brain, which was an inefficient way of doing it, and as an introspective idea of who I really was, that's how I put myself years ago.  I think I did that when I was probably sixteen years of age, and I'm trying to broaden that into a more encompassing reality idea.  How do you feel about the idea that I think that I am of essence, and the real me is really controlling and creating this thing that I feel and touch?  Is that a right way of doing it?  The real me is all of me, but something is creating this, and it's me that's creating it, so I'm not "this."

ELIAS:  Vessel, vessel, vessel!  (Laughter)

NORM:   So ... which is the outside vessel, yes.  The outside vessel is essence of course, right?

ELIAS:  It is an expression of essence.

NORM:   Is there a good way of doing it, an efficient way of doing it, of thinking of yourself?  Because of the physical experience that I have in physics, I always tend to think that way, or maybe it's not efficient.

ELIAS:  You are yourself!  How may you differentiate?  Who else shall you be?

NORM:   An ethereal essence.

ELIAS:  Ah!  The cosmic essence!  (Grinning)

NORM:   Cosmic, right!  Is that....

ELIAS:  That element which has always been floating through the universe!

NORM:   Right, through all the universes!

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  And what may the form be?  I am curious!

NORM:   Oh!  Well, it's truly ethereal, of course!  I can't really ... I mean, it's like Shynla.  I think of her now as very ethereal as the type of essence that she is, even more so than me being ethereal!  (Referring to Cathy's "dispersed" essence)

ELIAS:  Ah!  (Very humorously)  I shall be accessing the non-existent akashic records to be looking up this ethereal form of essence, for in actuality, I have not seen this as of this present now!

NORM:   Okay, you're really ... you're really good!  (Laughing)

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  YOU are YOU, viewing yourself as a small ball within your brain or viewing yourself as the expansiveness of all of the elements within your physical universe that you may possibly view within you.  It matters not.  YOU are YOU, and there is no separation of your vessel, vessel, vessel! within the focus, as it is an element of YOU.  It is no different than a thought, which is also you!

NORM:   The energy of a thought of course carries information, but it is not composed of links.

ELIAS:  It is!

NORM:   It IS composed of links.  Ah!  I was misinforming myself.  So energy IS formed from links?
 
ELIAS:  Yes.

NORM:   Good!  Now that makes sense!  That makes sense, yeah.  Ah, yes.  Then that solves a lot of my questioning.  For some reason, I thought that I misunderstood some statements at one time.  That answers a lot of my questions that I was going to ask, then.  Gee whiz, I'm coming close to the end of my questioning.  Are there any thoughts or comments that you would like to hint at?

ELIAS:  Shall I offer an all-famous Elias comment?  Buy a bed!  Take a bath!  Walk!  (Chuckling, and then humorously)  Information from the cosmos!  In my crystal ball I see....  (Grinning)

NORM:   That was a question of duplicity, wasn't it?

ELIAS:  (Laughing)  Absolutely!

NORM:   Absolutely.  Okay.  (Slapping himself)  Naughty, naughty!

ELIAS:  Once again!  (Grinning)

NORM:   Once again!  (Laughing)  Well, Elias, I'll tell you what.  I enjoy this life so much more because of your interaction.  I want to express, thanks!

ELIAS:  You are very welcome, and you may thank yourself also.

NORM:   That's true.  But I really appreciate it.  I think you're a fantastic teacher!  A little apple for you!

ELIAS:  I also am of this opinion, but this is for the reason that I do not hold duplicity or false morality.  Therefore, I may express without the belief system of modesty that I am an excellent creation!

NORM:   Beautiful!  That's well-put, well-put.

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  Therefore, an excellent teacher also!

NORM:   Of course!  Okay, I am exhausting ... well, my questions are there.  I have to think more.

ELIAS:  Very well.

NORM:   I appreciate it.  Thank you very much.

ELIAS:  You are quite welcome.  I shall be anticipating our meeting quite soon, in your terms, and for this evening, I shall bid you much affection and a very loving adieu.

Elias departs at 9:28 PM.

© 1997  Vicki Pendley/Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved

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Copyright 1997 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.