Friday, July 21, 2006 (Private)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Allen C.

ELIAS: Good day!

ALLEN: Good day.

ELIAS: Welcome.

ALLEN: Thank you.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) And what shall we discuss?

ALLEN: A few things. One is I’d be interested in your perception of me as a personality and an entity; how you see me?

ELIAS: In what capacity?

ALLEN: Oh, what I do in my quest for understanding and things like this.

ELIAS: Very curious individual. (Chuckles) And what are you requesting as an assessment?

ALLEN: Well, I understand entities like myself to have different points of perception. What would be your impressions of what you see when you see entity and personality Allen?

ELIAS: I view energy. In this, I also do not incorporate perception. YOU incorporate perception for that is an objective awareness. And within consciousness, not associated with physical realities, objective awareness is not necessary. Therefore, perception is not necessary, for I am not creating physical manifestations; you are.

ALLEN: Yeah. So you don’t need… Cognition is not something that you do, because there is no separation.

ELIAS: Correct.

ALLEN: The flood of ideas I had about an hour ago, was that you?

ELIAS: Offering helpfulness.

ALLEN: Well, I really appreciate it.

ELIAS: (Laughs) It is merely a matter of generating openness, my friend, and you can tap into tremendous information.

ALLEN: That’s what I’ve been trying to do with this and it’s been really great. (Elias chuckles) What can I do to facilitate that? Because I’m trying to be open. How do I…?

ELIAS: Openness is significant for it allows for a free flow of energy, and in that, you generate less clutter with thinking and less distraction. Thought FOLLOWS information; it does not PROVIDE information.

ALLEN: Yeah. Because as I try to explain this stuff here, what we know of as thought is actually simulation. True thought field…thought would be dispersive thought? And emotions to me are part of the simulation of the ego, the physicality of what actually is the activity of mind, which is more like gnostic thought, gnosis, which is a thought feeling terra in some sense, not reality.

ELIAS: Thought is a mechanism. I shall be discussing this on the morrow in our group interaction, for especially in this time framework now, it is becoming a significant topic and is generating significant confusion with many, many individuals. Therefore, this shall be my subject matter in our group interaction.

But what you are expressing as your gnostic thought, I would express it in terms of impressions and intuition, which may be FOLLOWED by thought but are not produced by thought. And you are expressing the same…

ALLEN: Struggling to find the words.

ELIAS: … generating different terminology, but it is the same action.

ALLEN: Are we in the same family? Like when you talk about the nine families?

ELIAS: Correct. And belonging to, yes, Sumafi.

ALLEN: Yeah. I can feel that because… (Elias chuckles) One of the things I try to…I’ve not actually explained to anybody yet, not formally, was the notion that part of our dilemma is this dualistic body, the system we have in this physicality, as opposed to a four value logic, where you have liminals. And this is an example of a liminal.

I kind of see the astral plane as the, from a physics point of view, like a quantum system of the entire universe. Okay, that’s how I see the description of the astral. And what we pop into experience, in a graphic sort of way, are moments that are solutions based on the underlying beliefs we hold.

And what’s interesting is dualistically you end up with one or two scenarios: you either create the states or you observe a state that pre-existed. But in fact, the way I’m starting to see things, it’s a liminal thing. The state we think existed was created through the act of observation. It’s all happening in this rather, Seth would say, spacious present. See, the spacious present and infinity are liminal concepts, and are not expressible or are dualistic.

And the other fourth value of mine was things are fundamentally unknown. And I was using an example of black and white; we make grey by mixing black and white. That’s a bit like what we do in quantum mechanics—wave particle duality. It really, really is. It’s a liminal state. We determined it through probability through our mechanism.

But color is not expressible in black and white. There are areas that are completely unknowable and which links to Gödel’s theorem and Ludwig Wittgenstein’s. They both arrive at the same conclusion. You cannot have a completely consistent theory with a finite number of axes. You can never completely understand anything with words. Which doesn’t seem to stop us from pursuing that. (Elias chuckles)

So I was trying to find a way to help people understand why they don’t understand. Do you see what I’m saying?

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: So looking at that…

ELIAS: Which would also be associated with perception. For you each generate your individual perception and THAT creates your actual reality. In that, there is no ONE OFFICIAL reality that you all tap into. Your reality is individually created by your perception.

ALLEN: Yeah. See, I try to use—being educated as a physicist—I try and find ways to connect that. It seems quite popular now. But as different faces states that span a system, a quantum system, you see, and there is nothing intrinsically unique about any of them, so what we’re doing, if you have All-That-Is as true chaos, in other words, a true collection of all possibilities, and the subset that we’re focused in is that subset of all possibilities in this universe, then all possible faces that—i.e., belief systems—are all there.

ELIAS: Correct.

ALLEN: And the creating of them is done at the same time as the observing of them and being pre-created, which gets into the liminal concept.

ELIAS: Correct.

ALLEN: Which is why this is so much fun.

ELIAS: For it is all simultaneous.

ALLEN: Yeah. The other thing I found interesting, I understand from other sources that I was Dogen in a previous life and I was drawn to one of his (inaudible) on being-time. And then I saw that word used in Fred Alan Wolf’s book and it kind of connected the dots for me, trying to understand the…Lazarus kind of talks about we see a line of time—this serial sequential experience—which is just simulation, and trying to get…actually turning it ninety degrees and seeing it fall down.

ELIAS: Yes. Precisely.

ALLEN: Yeah. (Elias chuckles) In Colorado, in September what I offered to do was to try and take this and map some of the Seth concepts into this in a bit. I think that’s where some of the clues were given. So again, I really do appreciate this conversation(Elias laughs)and love all of it. (Elias laughs) Well, it is fun and to me this is the only thing that’s important.

And it’s an interesting dilemma because it’s a dualistic thing as well. How important is experience versus knowing? And then at times I fall into this thing of, okay, I draw pictures, so is that knowing? Is putting things in boxes knowing?

ELIAS: It can be.

ALLEN: But you know it’s… Yeah.

ELIAS: It is not necessarily. What you may be discovering in THIS time framework is that what is KNOWN to you now is being challenged, that there is more that is UNKNOWN to you yet. And you are beginning to experience the unknown and you incorporate inadequate language to communicate that.

And in that, you are redefining your language and EXPANDING to accommodate the expanded awareness and the expanded experiences, for the experience generates the realness.

You can express concepts continuously, but that does not actually generate reality. Experience is what generates the reality AND the knowing. For without the experience, what you incorporate is an intellectual understanding, but not necessarily a knowing.

ALLEN: See, I guess the utility of these diagrams…it’s mainly architecture, trying to find the underlying architecture. And then from that, like the second workshop I’ve been giving had to do with applying this in a Lazarus framework in terms of proving your ability to manifest and making that spiritual.

To me, we in physicality need some kind of framework, and this came out of reading material from various sources and not knowing when people were talking about the same thing. And what was fascinating is when you start looking at it, this is not a complete…well, there is no complete representation. (Elias laughs)

But the energies of the relationships between the dots in fact is what generate, if you like, our conscious energies that we can use actually to assist the manifestation and to evolve ourselves as a personality. That’s what I like about this kind of approach.

Now if I look back as I understand my lifetimes as Thoth, reading the Emerald tablets—a really interesting juxtaposition, reading that while doing this—what I saw in the Thoth material was something I’m missing right now, which is like the real experience. To me that lifetime was exactly what you’re saying. It was a knowing through experience.

The words in the Emerald Tablet—there’s not a lot of objective substance in there. There are some statements by The Dweller, which I find interesting. Again at one point, how to understand who The Dweller is, kind of thing.

But what I need to do, I’m trying to…well, you’ve obviously watched this thing unfold over years, and trying to find a framework that’s loose enough yet provides enough of a framework that I can then expand on that experience, you see. Actually [in] the Lazarus material, there are techniques to actually go into unconscious; it’s conscious but a knowable kind of thing.

ELIAS: I am understanding.

ALLEN: Yeah, a knowable kind of thing is a better way of describing it.

ELIAS: And what method are you considering?

ALLEN: Well, his techniques for getting into the underworld. But see, what I don’t…the problem with the Lazarus techniques for me [is] you’re creating perceptions of things you relate to. Do you know what I mean? So like you create a personified form of the higher self. That was useful up to a degree. Going in the imaginal realm or into the causal plane as a technique were very useful, very pragmatic and…
But there’s a point I’ve reached where I’m saying, well, if you can actually create everything you want to create, I don’t know what I want to create, because it didn’t matter, because this is illusion. (Laughs) So I’m kind of in that headspace for quite a bit.
When I go into realms that are outside of—that I consider outside of—the cosmos, in other words, outside of realities that could be spanned by Cayley algebras kind of thing, outside of them, where there is no structure, like relationships. That’s how I see what we know as the cosmos, so our realities that basically have a measure of some sort.

There’s a thing. I guess that’s why the different dimensional realities—and there’s only four Cayley algebras that were indefinite—there’s too much underlying coincidence there. It’s not the Cayley algebras; it’s the underlying symmetry that gives rise to those. See that, to me, tells me a root property of that space of reality; so step outside that.

And when I go into the understanding the world of emanation –and I’ve never tried explaining this to anybody—but this is us trying to reverse engineer All-That-Is, from a dualistic point of view. We cannot conceive of anything without space and movement or something, you know? The source can. And when I go into these areas, areas where I’m purposely not trying to create a set of symbols that my conscious can relate to, it’s…

ELIAS: Quite challenging.

ALLEN: But it’s a beautiful blank. I mean it really is. There’s no…it’s sort of dark, but not. It’s not black. Do you know what I mean?

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: It’s no colour.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: But it’s not nothing.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: And it’s beautiful, you know. And then what I do is I just wait for things to percolate and seep through into this little simulation going on down here. But I can’t take the simulation. It’s like what I was trying to relate to lifetimes in Sirius and the Pleiades. It was the Transcenders, I think, told me the dimensionality they had, but when I relate to them, if they have a form, then it’s me creating that. The same with the Sirians. So it got to be an interesting…it would be fun. I could FEEL them.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: And there was a knowingness.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: But it never…I mean, once in a while I would create a form like a Sirius, really bright, a couple of suns, and that just anchored me. But it wasn’t that.

ELIAS: Therefore, in that, what you are recognizing is that you are generating a translation, that in relation to other areas of consciousness or other dimensional realities, whatever you generate through perception is a translation of what you are tapping into. For within your reality, this is what you do. You translate through what is known. And therefore, you attach forms and ideas…

ALLEN: Create nouns. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Correct. For this is what is known. This is your reality. And in that, this is HOW you translate.

Individuals express questioning to myself in different time frameworks, concerning what is in consciousness. “What do you do, Elias? What exists within consciousness?” And I respond in expressing these are questions that…

ALLEN: Have no meaning.

ELIAS: …cannot necessarily be answered, for however I would respond, you will automatically translate through what is known to you within this reality in some capacity, and that will distort what is being expressed. Therefore, it is not impossible but ALMOST impossible to express objectively those types of explanations. Also, it is difficult to convey information concerning consciousness, for you associate in terms of things.

ALLEN: Cognitive, objective. Yeah.

ELIAS: You generate associations in relation to THINGS or manifestations, and consciousness is not a thing. It is an action. It is movement, but no form.

ALLEN: See, in this cabalistic approach, there’s the world of emanation, which kind of compels expression, and it’s beyond relations. There’s no structure. The world of causation is actually the first appearance of structured conscious energies.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: But function doesn’t exist there. This is the underlying energy. You said it WILL exist. These are the wills that generate, that propel. The emanations COMPEL expression and these conscious energies PROPEL. And it’s really in the world of formation where the…which is most of what our focus is, because that’s really…

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: One of the insights I found interesting recently was what we know of as a cosmos is actually a moment of physical experience for All-That-Is. And that insight was really…

ELIAS: Precisely.

ALLEN: Yeah. It would explain why we don’t have numbered Seth-worlds and stuff like that.

ELIAS: Another challenging factor is that you tend to associate with sequences, and, in actuality, there are no sequences, for every moment, every action is its own outcome. You view sequences merely in hindsight.

ALLEN: You see, at one level I try to use the idea of causal loops for creating moments of experience here. Where that really gets into a problem is like where Seth was using value fulfillment. How can you grow? You see we always have to relate something to growing and evolving when in fact, in reality, it can’t. (Elias chuckles) It’s complete already.

ELIAS: Correct.

ALLEN: And then you fall down. Like why am I doing this at all? (Elias laughs) Really!

ELIAS: And although it may appear simplistic and without purpose, in actuality why you are doing whatever you are doing is to experience it, for every experience is an expansion of consciousness.

Every moment, every experience, every expression is unique to itself and is an expansion. It is quite comical with us to be presented with the question of, “Is it true that consciousness knows everything?” or “Elias, do you know everything?” Of course, I do not know everything. If I knew everything there would be no more to explore and there would be no more to expand, and that is the nature of consciousness: continuous folding-in in expansion.

ALLEN: Like the Tao, a bit like that. Is this where the Taoists came from? In terms of the idea of what is real is process and activity, not state? I guess that came about once they spent…they noticed a moment has no duration or evolution so… (Laughs)

ELIAS: BUT it is real.

ALLEN: Yeah, as real as anything.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: Well, it’s been fascinating as well. Every once in a while I kind of connect the dots with some of the past and future lives I’m aware of, and I get moments of insight as to how this is all one experience. Like when I’m reading the Emerald Tablets, I’m reading it with the knowingness that I’m playing with right now, and thinking, okay, at that entity level, this is entity knowing, in a sense.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: The function.

ELIAS: Which I have expressed many times you ALL incorporate all the knowledge that is already and possess the ability to generate more in your expansion. But there is no information that you cannot tap into and incorporate as an availability to yourself NOW in any moment. It is merely a matter of, in a manner of speaking, stepping aside from the rigidity of your attention in what is familiar, and generating a de-focusing, so to speak, to allow yourself to tap into what you are not aware of but what you know.

ALLEN: The Transcenders and Rick Thurston had talked about stopping time, and I find part of it…I guess I kind of raised the bar by starting out as a physicist. That’s like anything that bounces against these beliefs, and I try to be like as abstract…well, what I tried is just natural, yet I still bang into time. That’s why I was preoccupied with it in Dogen and Bathin and with Thoth. And so I guess the Waymaker liked time as well, where kind of rocketing around in time was…it seems to be a bit of a preoccupation of this entity, is to try to… (Laughs)

ELIAS: Time is an interesting manifestation. It is quite flexible and bendable. And it can be manipulated in many, many manners. And it can be a fascination to play with intentionally, although some individuals do play with it not necessarily so intentionally,(chuckles) but you all manipulate time quite frequently. But as you continue to view it in a linear fashion, you dismiss that you are actually manipulating it. As it continues to APPEAR to move in a linear fashion, that is comfortable. And in that, you express to yourselves that it is merely perception that it may be moving faster or slower in any particular time framework.

It is precisely that, a matter of perception, for that is what creates it.

ALLEN: Yeah. (Elias chuckles) And also it has…time has depth, which is something we don’t…Lazarus (inaudible)

ELIAS: Yes, for time is directly associated with physical manifestation. Without time, you do not create physical expressions.

ALLEN: In my framework here, time and space are the last things popped out in the manifestation process.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: You see the quantum system…we tend to write equations with space and time, but I don’t see that. That’s just us trying to reverse engineer the quantum system of the universe. It’s not bound by that.

ELIAS: You are correct.

ALLEN: We just project that.

ELIAS: That would be the finality of the manifestation.

ALLEN: But it is fun. (Both laugh)

ELIAS: Ah! And there is much you continue to explore in that subject matter, for you are merely tapping the tip of the iceberg or perhaps the tip of the glacier.(Chuckles)

ALLEN: Yeah. I want to go there. There’s a point where the feeling I have about this architecture is that it’s solid enough now that…

ELIAS: What is significant to remember is the lack of absolutes, for in sciences there is a tremendous leaning in the direction of wanting to create absolutes—one absolute direction, one true expression. And there actually are no absolutes, and in that, there is tremendous changeability.

ALLEN: If there were absolutes, we would not have true infinity.

ELIAS: Correct.(Laughs) Precisely.

ALLEN: And we’d get infinitely bored. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Precisely. And your explorations would be quite limited, and they are not, for consciousness can surprise you and can be quite playful in somewhat of a fooling manner, in which you may incorporate your facts and they may appear absolute and true, and they will change, (laughs) for as you EXPAND and you WIDEN your awareness, you also expand consciousness, and therefore it changes. (Chuckles)

ALLEN: What do you think the Oomite philosophies that were put together, I guess, in later years in the fifties and stuff, with the proposal…they are the ones where they have a number system in base 12, which is like more representative of the fundamental harmonics, and they have a logical system of base 4, a bit like what I was describing. Do you have any comments about their…?

ELIAS: I would express to you, it can be useful as a focal point or a direction, but to be incorporated with flexibility, and to remember that it is a guideline, not necessarily an answer.

ALLEN: You’re right. I guess the big take-away for me on that…two things. The one was the idea that it doesn’t have to be four values, but at least to understand why we have things that we’ll never be able to express or understand—a way of expressing that.

The other thing that is fascinating is that we hold a belief about finiteness of our knowing, I mean to the point of actually projecting the body. So when we think of consciousness units and E.U.s, I see those as like one over the universe that we kind of recognize as the universe of knowing, which is interesting.

And as the universe expands, the focus of the consciousness units gets smaller, actually. It’s a bit like what superstring theory, these Calabi-Yau spaces, where it’s “1” over “R” and you can’t tell the difference of the thing.

The other thing that I found funny was part of our perception of time, the idea that the universe began 14.7 billion years ago, and then scientists writing all these equations. And then it occurred to me that if they took their own equations and stepped back about 14 billion years, they’d find out it still looked like they started 14 billion years ago, you know? (Laughs)

ELIAS: Correct.

ALLEN: And nobody recognizes that.

ELIAS: For that would also create a limitation.

ALLEN: Create what?

ELIAS: That would also create a limitation.

ALLEN: Yes, it does. Yeah.

ELIAS: For you are generating boundaries. And in this, some of your religious expressions are more closely associated with what actually IS than your sciences in the expression of no beginning.

ALLEN: Yeah. Yeah. That’s how the fundamentalists are taking that.

ELIAS: For there is no beginning. Also, remember, consciousness is not a thing. Therefore, it cannot incorporate a larger or a smaller or a beginning or an end. It does not incorporate those limitations, for it is not a thing. (Chuckles) When did action begin? There is your question! It always has been.

ALLEN: This is what I was getting at when I looked at the origin of the Kabbalah. We can’t picture something without it being somewhere, nd then some kind of movement in that somewhere.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: But the source is bigger.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: And it’s…well, certainly brain frying (Elias laughs). I imagine it’s mind frying trying to get out there. I drew a diagram where I kind of showed the dimensional realities; kind of they expand like Cayley algebra. And there’s huge space out there in mine, which is really unknowable. Because we can only in our most abstract capabilities end up being…if we start with the concept that was fundamental to us as having a place and a measure, anything is—at least in Cayley algebra—any of these dimensional realities, the only thing we can even hope to try to not even understand, even be able to point to or talk about, from this vantage point in consciousness, and nobody talks about that. It’s a huge no-no.

I guess partly because when you go there you don’t bring anything back that’s immediately translatable into physical experience, i.e., memory, or anything like that. It does change things.

ELIAS: Or what is translatable translates in what is known to you within your reality as a void, a void that is not a void.

ALLEN: It’s not empty; there’s still boundaries. There’s nothing that we can relate to because of this underlying thing of place and movement, hence having to have a beginning and an ending. It’s fun.

ELIAS: Which is the nature of your reality. (Chuckles) Which may be an exploration in association with dreams, also.

ALLEN: In association with?

ELIAS: Dreams.

ALLEN: Yeah.

ELIAS: For they are quite misdefined also.

ALLEN: Well you’re freer. We tend to relax the fixation on time and space there. But it’s still the dilemma. What I’m finding is if I create form to provide something that I can hang on to in these spaces, I guess the underlying concern I have is that I’m missing what’s really there. So there’s this issue of just going there and being, kind of thing.

ELIAS: Which is the reason that some individuals also explore the action of dream state similarly and with similar vigor, for the imagery is the objective translation. But what is occurring is not the imagery. And therefore, the fascination is what is occurring that I am translating it into this imagery? And also the source of many individuals’ confusion as to the meaning of dreams, for they are an objective expression, therefore, they are abstract. And in that abstractness, there may be many, many, many different symbols or images for one action.

ALLEN: Actually you could say the same thing about moments of physical experience.

ELIAS: Yes. Precisely. For this is what you are also exploring with your physics. And recognizing that all that you perceive is a translation of some action, and generating the exploration as to what the action is that motivates the translation.

ALLEN: You could say there’s sayings more abstract than action and we can’t picture that. (Both laugh) You know when I look at these diagrams, understanding that we have a specific vantage point and overall consciousness, and we’re trying to trace our way back and see it with our glasses on, trying to picture stepping over just a little bit, what would it…?

ELIAS: (Laughs) Ah, but these are the explorations that generate tremendous movement and great discoveries and new inventiveness.

ALLEN: When I’m trying to talk and explain things to people, (Elias chuckles) trying to get them to understand their ability or freedom to manifest, things like this, trying to say that there is a probably reality with complete world peace—that’s a…I’m doing it dualistically, understanding what I said earlier about liminal. I guess the…I don’t know where I was going with that. I get derailed as to why did I even bother to pick one of these. (Elias laughs)

I guess if I want to come up with a metaphor. Quantum mechanically, you know, we project states of…quantum mechanically, this would be probably the last(inaudible). The next level of abstraction is where you’re actually dealing with the dynamics of the equation, in our metaphor that generates these eigenstates. And I suppose this is the way I view the spiritual mastery activity, the use of the archetypical energies for the process of associating with spiritual mastery. You’re actually working with the dynamical element of process Al, process whoever. Personality and process both start with a “p” and it’s probably a good reason they do. (Elias laughs)

So that’s working with that, whereas the manifestation side is working with the mechanics of actually observing the eigenstates without getting too much clutter. That’s probably not a bad way to see things. But every once in a while you get that wave of feelings, and well, this is kindergarten (laughs). Why am I still doing this? (Elias laughs)

That’s where the Thoth material…again, you know, I go bouncing around. Well, this is that entity knowing but from this vantage point, in a sense. Well, it’s all you, anyway, and all this stuff, these pieces, all kind of fit together.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: And the activity, the pursuit of me now, that I’m actually following my innate nature, I believe it’s due to this. Okay, it is actually, in all of these eigenstates, Thoth, Moodie, whoever, right? It’s actually energizing those eigenstates.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: And I find it really interesting, looking at A Course in Miracles. I was actually quite surprised when I mentioned that in Colorado, and a lot of the Seth people were like…but see, I don’t see things like that. I see them differently. There’s a message there. And it really has to do with getting to the state of consciousness that you’re describing and releasing the limitation of trying to experience everything through physical senses.

ELIAS: Correct. Yes.

ALLEN: And that’s probably why the Transcenders always say follow the path of Nazarene. This is fun, see, but then…

ELIAS: There is valuable information in those writings.

ALLEN: Yeah. Absolutely. I found Gary Renard’s stuff actually kind of helped to understand what the whole thing is coming from. It’s not a replacement for it, but for me at least it turned a little key. (Elias laughs)

You don’t give advice, do you? (Both laugh) Yeah, I’m willing to listen.

ELIAS: It is dependent upon what is being requested in advice.

ALLEN: Oh, I don’t want to place any limitation. (Elias laughs) Well, this is fun and I really…

ELIAS: My suggestion is that you continue in your exploration AND continue to generate an openness. Perhaps experiment with yourself in similar manner to the genuine surrealists.

ALLEN: Genuine surrealists?

ELIAS: Yes, for the philosophy of that is to capture an expression before you can distort it. They generated that in association with words or images, but that can be applied in many different directions. It is a matter of allowing yourself to capture a moment, an expression, before what is known or what you would term to be your brain can change it into some form.

ALLEN: Yeah, I like that. That’s probably why I went to a Buddhist temple for several years, trying that. But I found they kept trying to take away from that very experience you describe.

ELIAS: It is not that you prevent yourself from incorporating thought—that is a natural mechanism that you all incorporate within your physical reality—but that you incorporate thought in the manner in which it is designed, and that you engage your attention in other directions also, and therefore allow yourself to capture those moments and expressions without distorting them; without altering them into some other form.

ALLEN: Some of this happens, I think, when I wake up and I don’t always write them down immediately. I try to digest them, because I guess I’m confident that they’ll come back if I really miss them.

What I find interesting about Process L is that in this life I do my best thinking when I’m asleep, like my van experience in the university. (Elias laughs) And I stopped doing that for a while, because somehow I thought I was cheating, because everybody else—all the engineers—had to work at it. I’d just go to sleep, you know? But in fact, perhaps I need to get back, do more of that.

I try to use crystals in ways, because to me that’s a form of consciousness. It amplifies and…

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: They’ve been really, really something. Again, I was a little surprised about the beliefs of some of the Sethians. They didn’t want to hear about crystals. I guess we all have our boundaries, and they are saying that it’s really about…these are all elements of the source, elements of All-That-Is.

ELIAS: Yes.

ALLEN: It’s allowing them, I guess playfully, to express themselves without your personal limitations. It’s what maturity is about, I guess, in life as well.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Expansion and recognizing that there is not one RIGHT manner in which you can accomplish and that there is valuable information in many different directions, many different expressions.

ALLEN: I really appreciate what you do. Thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome, my friend. (Chuckles) And we shall continue on the morrow.

ALLEN: I look forward to it. And hopefully in my dreams, also.

ELIAS: I shall accommodate and shall be quite pleased to be interactive with you, within your dream imagery and otherwise.

ALLEN: Don’t be a stranger. (Both laugh)

ELIAS: Never! To you in great friendship and in anticipation of our next meeting, I offer you tremendous appreciation, my friend.

ALLEN: As I do you.

ELIAS: And great encouragement. Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 55 minutes.)

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Copyright 2006 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.