Rebuilding a Relationship without Expectations
Topics:
Rebuilding a Relationship without Expectations
Sunday, March 29, 2026 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Anon X
(Audio begins partway through session)
ANON X: Now let’s go back to the trauma session stuff.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: Very well. Okay, you gave me a little homework.
ELIAS: Yes, and?
ANON X: I talked with my sister, and she was… she was very open.
ELIAS: Excellent.
ANON X: And we exchanged memories of, about our father and then also a little bit about our mother. And we have the same parents, and… Yeah, that was interesting, though. That we can include into this session. And you asked me about my behavior, if I see any influences regarding my behavior, and I do. And we can include... I did, I did contemplate and observe myself in the aftermath of this session, so we can include that into this session. And now maybe it's good if you take the lead and we go on there. (Pause) From there.
ELIAS: Very well. What did you discover in relation to your behaviors?
ANON X: Oh, I would say the rigidity that I have at times. The…That if something is not… That… Yeah, if something goes against something that is very important for me, then I tend to – or I tended, it's softening – tended to become rather rigid, black and white. Then, “Okay, let's stop. Let's not continue the relationship.” And usually it's me that ends relationships, if there is an end with relationships.
What did I…? There was something else that I did discover. Oh, it doesn't come to mind. In general, my difficulties with relationships, I would, I would relate to my childhood and the whole context and situation around the childhood experiences and the social climate.
ELIAS: Such as? Therefore what can you see in relation to your behavior in perhaps being rigid, that would be related to your childhood in some capacity?
ANON X: Oh, let's take my daughter.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: Yeah. So, when… When she would repeatedly not go in the direction of taking responsibility of her, for her side in some things, and it would continue and continue and continue. Then at a certain point, I said, “Okay, I'm done. This is not the way it works for me. I don't want to continue this.”
And I think if I would have been brought up differently, I would have just been much, much smoother. I would have accepted that in a way that okay, this is where she is at, and this is how she functions, let's do something that works for both of us, and perhaps she will unfold in a different way. But I think if I wouldn't have gone to this rigid place, I would have opened the space for more, a different climate for her to grow into it and to support her in this way, by making the space, making the room, the climate for her to even be supported in that sense. Not actively but like climate-wise, to herself not be going into the rigid direction, but in a relaxed direction. I would make, possibly make things develop differently.
ELIAS: Very well.
Now; what can you see from that, that you could do differently now?
ANON X: Well in general, I moved in the direction to not be so rigid but more allowing. And what I described, in essence you know, so I don't…
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: So you're now being more allowing.
ANON X: Mm-hm.
ELIAS: And how do you do that? How do you express that?
ANON X: Oh. For example (laughs)… Wait a moment. I just simply pause more and don't express towards the other in objective expression, but inwardly I make room for, “Oh, I might be wrong about this. Let's give it time and see how it unfolds. My perception might be might be… My perception might be an automatic reaction about the situation on the other’s side or even on my side. There might be some kind of error, and I would not see the error if I stay in the rigid attitude.”
And so I give it time and allow it to unfold and I see, “Okay. Okay, I have made a mistake,” for example or “I had a misperception and misinterpretation,” or “Yes, it's the other person. But is it even important to hammer on this? We can do something different that works for both of us more easily, more enjoyable for both sides. There are more topics than this one or things to do together.” This is the direction I'm developing much more.
ELIAS: Very well. And how is that proceeding at this point with her?
ANON X: There is no proceeding because she blocks me out. And like I said, I respect it and I don't contact her because I think if I would contact her, likely she would be annoyed.
ELIAS: That depends on how you contact her and what you say. And I'd say that that's an assumption.
ANON X: Yes, I know Elias. I know. I know. And there is a side of me which thinks, “Okay, if I was her…” Or in general, isn't it a high probability that a child, biological, the child even if it's an adult child does have a kind of inner sense, inner longing, yearning in a sense, for a good relationship with their parent? And it’s almost as if it was a general theme that the child… But you know when I… When I… I don't know if… I don't remember if I said this before, but you had given me in 2019 the advice to go to her and to say, to take accountability and to say – I paraphrase, I don't mean it in verbal, verbal terms – but to say, “Okay, I'm sorry. I see my mistakes and I take responsibility for them,” this kind of thing. And I did that and she responded with, “Mom, you are depressed again, right?” That was her response.
ELIAS: And what was your response?
ANON X: I guess I was silent. Because—
ELIAS: Ah.
ANON X: Because I was… I had been in this… already, in this move, in this direction of losing my balance at that time when things were so difficult with the hormones and everything, and I just couldn't hear what you were saying. It was, listening to these sessions, awful.
ELIAS: Which is acceptable.
ANON X: Yeah, and I understand that she sensed the similarity to the first time, and I understand that. But she seems to… We had a session about that, or we have, we have talked about this comparatively shortly after the break-up of the relationship, and like when you said something like, “She considers you mentally ill, but that could be said about her at the moment as well.”
And so I assume that she still considers me mentally ill and so for various reasons she's better off. It seems to be like that. That was the last time, last impression, that she… Her perception seems to be that she seems to think, “I'm better off without her, even if it's not enjoyable to… and saddening in some way, but my life is better without her, my mom.” And so I don't want to, you know, be in the situation to (sighs) like convince her, or to present myself as “You see, I’m not—
ELIAS: Ah.
ANON X: —mentally ill,” or anything like… I don’t want to… I don’t… It’s… I could do whatever if she… She wouldn’t want to be convinced. She will not.
ELIAS: You are correct. And that brings us to the question again of what do YOU want. Do you want to have a relationship with her? Or do you not want to have a relationship with her?
ANON X: Oh god Elias, it's five years now, and there is this point… She likely has changed in some way and I have changed, and I would… You know, it’s the same, it's similar to when you have a former partner or a former fellow pupil from school or whatever and you meet them again and you see the typical sides of things, the personality. But you also see that things have developed in between and people have somehow changed also, both. So there is this familiarity, but there is also certain alienness sometimes. And perhaps if I would get to know her again, we would find that yeah, it's fine. We had our time together, and it's fine to part because we have so different directions now and so little interfaces that there is not much substance for a really deep relationship, or whatever. We could have like chit chat as neighbors, like neighbors would have it, but not a like more or less close, active family relationship, or whatever. You see?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: So (sighs) I don't know. If you sense into her, what do you…? What would you sense? Would you think that or would you sense that she would be interested in getting in contact and talking or, or...?
ELIAS: That was not my question.
ANON X: Yeah, but this is my question to you at the moment.
ELIAS: I understand, but what you're doing is you're basing your answer on her.
ANON X: Okay, okay, okay, okay. (Sighs) Okay, okay. I would like to have… I would like to be in some kind of a relationship with her, if it was possible to be enjoyable for both sides, for me and for her.
ELIAS: Very well. And how important Is that to you?
ANON X: Oh, my. (Laughs) Actually I would say, if you take 100, it will be a 50.
ELIAS: Very well. That's significant.
ANON X: Why? What do you mean?
ELIAS: It's significant, because that doesn't show that you are, that it is tremendously important to you that you have a relationship with her. That it shows that you are all right if you have a relationship with her, and you're also all right if you don't.
ANON X: Yes, yes. It's not that, “Oh god, I have to have this, otherwise my life is a mess, or my life is so unenjoyable,” or whatever. It's a kind of sovereignty. I'm open to it, but I don't depend on it.
ELIAS: I understand, and it's not a matter of depending on it. It's a matter of, as I said, how important it is to you. You might place a significant importance on it and not have any type of dependence on it. And therefore, it would be something that you would genuinely find important and that you genuinely would want, and that—
ANON X: I don't know if we talk, if we talk… With 50, I mean I'm open.
ELIAS: I understand.
ANON X: Yeah?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And… but I don't need to force anything into being. That's what I mean with 50.
ELIAS: I understand that also.
ANON X: If there is a flow, if there is pleasure in it. Because we don't have to be in a relationship, we are both adults. And I also (laughs) I have… I don't have the desire to be around people all the time. I like to be on my own quite a bit, because I'm so interested in many things that don't necessarily involve other people being around a lot. So I… It’s… In that sense, I (laughs)… I find myself somewhat picky.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And… So that's also a piece of why it's 50. It's some… Sometimes there is a notion of, “Oh my god, I have to. I have to have people around me, because what if I need people for whatever reasons or so…” But I don't calculate like that. I don’t… I like… Okay. What I like is to feel connected to people.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: But that doesn't mean that I have to have them all the time around.
ELIAS: I understand.
ANON X: And I also don't involve my myself in dysfunctional relationships. And if there is something that I would experience as more or less dysfunctional, then I look at it, if there is a potential that we can develop together. And if this is not a given, then my interest in deepening the relationship as a relationship itself, for reasons of... that are not like, let's say subject-related, you know, but socializing-related, feeling well with each other, etc., then I usually withdraw. Then I'm not interested in deepening the relationship.
ELIAS: Very well. Which I already understand. And in this, what I'm moving in the direction of establishing with you is just how important having a relationship with her is, and whether it is important enough to you, to… to put in a significant amount of work.
ANON X: Oh, I would be willing. I would be willing to put in work. No question, no doubt. If she's interested, you know? But I want… I don't want to expose my… No, expose is the wrong term. Impose. Impose, I guess is the term. Okay, I look it up. This is an important term.
ELIAS: No. You are using the correct word.
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: You are using the correct word.
ANON X: Yes. Impose. I would not impose myself on her. Never. Because I still love her and I respect her, and I respect her journey and her choices. What I would not want to miss out is a wrong assumption and staying away while she kind of secretly is waiting for me to send a signal of, “Hey, I'm taking accountability of my side. And what do you think about starting fresh, and developing a beautiful relationship that can work for both of us, tailor-made to the desires and preferences and wants and situation to each, both of us.?”
We are both adults now. We have a life. It's not that I would want to have her as a guest or visitor once a week (laughs) or so.
ELIAS: I understand. I understand. I would say: What would prevent you from simply writing to her and saying that?
ANON X: Well, (laughs) what would prevent me was okay, if there is something that I need to clear with myself, trauma-based, or whatever, I would want to clear that first so that I don't make a mistake in the sense of doing something that I would kind of more or less, in quotation marks, “regret" afterwards because I wasn't aware [of] it before I did it. I don't want to make a mistake in that sense.
So I even thought about offering her a kind of mediator, mediator so that we have a person, a third person, where we can both go to and have some kind of professional support, so that… And I would pay for it, if she would be interested. Then we might… So perhaps she would feel better. I don't know, but it would be important for me enough to do that, if she wants it, if—
ELIAS: I would say she likely wouldn't be necessarily agreeable to that. She wants you. And in that, she wants you to initiate a relationship but in that, without judgment of her and in a capacity in which she can express herself and not feel that you're going to do what you've done in the past by simply walking away from her, that “If we can't agree, then we have nothing to talk about.”
ANON X: Do you really think that…? Do you really sense…? Do you sense that as her experience and perception?
ELIAS: Yes, to a strong degree.
ANON X: My impression of her was that she had a topic with abandonment. Meaning that she has… that she doesn't like to be abandoned. She—
ELIAS: Precisely. But abandonment comes in many forms.
ANON X: Right. And I often had been, when we were still together as mother and child, in the child-raising period, I had the impression that she has like – and I don't mean that negatively – but you could call it abandonment issues.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And that that is something different to me, in a sense that I would rather be alone than being in a relationship that that feels very uncomfortable, and so I'd rather be abandoned. (Laughs) And it wouldn’t… It wouldn't hurt me so much. But for her, it's like she brought this topic into this focus for her. That was my impression, at the time.
ELIAS: Ah.
ANON X: That she would even cling, she would cling much more to relationships which I would let go, just to be not in—
ELIAS: Yes. I would agree.
ANON X: Just to be not abandoned or feel abandoned or alone or whatever.
ELIAS: I would agree.
ANON X: That was my… Yeah, that was my impression. And it might have had to do with her father and what have you, but it also felt like that is a topic for her focus that she is kind of dealing with in this focus.
ELIAS: I would agree with that. And I would say that in relation to that, that's precisely what I was saying to you, is that for her, if you shut down a conversation with her and walk away and express, “If we can't agree, then we have nothing to talk about,” that is the same as abandoning.
ANON X: I understand. That's why I… why I had this strong inner response and spiking inwardly when you mentioned “abandon her” and stuff just now.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: It makes sense. It correlates to more than what you just said.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: I can, I can relate to that strongly. It makes a lot of sense.
ELIAS: Good.
ANON X: Oh, my god Elias! (Laughs) Are we still—
ELIAS: I would say it is a matter of evaluating what you are willing to engage and how you are willing to extend yourself in association with a relationship with her, and how much you want that relationship.
ANON X: Do you think…? Do you…? If you look at…? If you would look at us like two people that are not biologically related, would you say that we are compatible, or a fit or a match, that there would be even a substance for a relationship?
ELIAS: (Pause) I'd say, perhaps not.
ANON X: Hm. Because this is one of the basic questions. Does it even make sense to go back? And the other point is that she.... after… after… Whatever, she developed in a quite different direction it seems, and so our interests and our importances and stuff seem, as far as I can see from the distance, seem to have developed far apart and don't overlap much, if there—
ELIAS: I would agree.
ANON X: Yeah. And so… And so, it would be a question of how important is it for her to even have a mother anymore? Because—
ELIAS: No, that's not the question. The question is: How important is it for you to have the daughter?
ANON X: Okay. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Because regardless of how important it is for her to have a mother, if you can't do that, or if what you would have to do to be that is not important enough to you, then it's pointless.
ANON X: Mm. Yeah, I understand, and I—
ELIAS: That's why I've been asking you these questions.
ANON X: Yeah, I understand. I don't know. I don't know if I could fit into the mold so to speak naturally, of what she would almost like, expect, wish so strongly for that it is next to an expectation.
ELIAS: It IS an expectation.
ANON X: Okay. I don't know if I can do that. She… She… (Laughs) She sometimes like, more or less expressed, “Can't you be just normal?” You know? To me, towards me and what I seem to be.
ELIAS: Repeat.
ANON X: She seems to consider me as un-normal, and she would want me to be just normal, a normal, average person in a sense.
ELIAS: Which that is what her perception of normal is.
ANON X: Right, right, right. And my expression seems to be un-normal for her, so it seems. And for example, when… when corona was and she insisted on people have to be vaccinated, and I chose to not be vaccinated because, just because I trusted my immune system on one end and on the other end, I didn't want to be vaccinated because my body is already dealing with this and that, and I didn't want to put a vaccination on top of it. So… But I respected all the rules. I had my mask on and I kept distance, and I stayed away when necessary or whatever but I just wouldn't vaccinate myself, period.
And that was for her entirely inacceptable and un-responsible and irresponsible and what have you, and it created another rift. And when I had, when I had contact with her children I promised her and I did, to test myself prior to meeting them, an hour before we would meet and what have you. I followed all the rules, rules and she became almost sarcastic and ironic and discounting and non-accepting of my choice. But she said I wouldn't accept her choice, which I did, but her perception was I wouldn't respect her choices and, and… But I was irresponsible and whatever. So it was so different.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: You know?
ELIAS: Yes. Her perception was that if you were respecting her choice, then you would have vaccinated yourself for her and her children. I understand your perception and your choice. I'm simply giving you her choice also and her perception.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: Now; in that, there is a very significant difference in relation to perception, your perception and her perception, not simply about that subject.
ANON X: Right. That was a symbolic—
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Symbolic scenario, that kind of illustrates how—
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: — far we are apart in some things.
ELIAS: I agree.
ANON X: And for example, this talking with you, for her, is likely completely woo-woo and nonsense and delusional and whatever.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: You see? And so… it’s…
ELIAS: That's what I was expressing to you in asking these questions, prompting you to actually think about the situation, and think about what is important to you and how important it is to you to have a relationship with her, not simply because she's your daughter.
ANON X: Right. That’s… That's what I sum up in the 50.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: That's why... Yeah. I have thought about all these things before. And so—
ELIAS: Yes. That's why I expressed that that's not necessarily a percentage that would be enough to be motivating a type of relationship that could necessarily be successful without you acquiescing to her.
ANON X: Hm. Acquiescing is not satisfying.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct.
ANON X: I mean, if you would ask me the same question about my husband, I would give you a plain, immediate 100%.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: You know?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Because this is… This is a relationship that is not as old as the relationship with her (laughs), but it is a relationship that is alive and it is unfolding and it is progressing, and it is satisfying and it is fun. And it is—
ELIAS: And it’s what you've chosen.
ANON X: Yeah, I have chosen—
ELIAS: You haven't chosen the relationship with her yet. Therefore this is all a matter of questioning whether to choose a relationship with her.
ANON X: I see.
ELIAS: Or not.
ANON X: I see. I see.
ELIAS: And the relationship that you have with your husband, you have already chosen.
ANON X: I see.
ELIAS: And therefore yes, you are invested and you're committed and in that, you know how to express yourself in relation to him. These are things that are not necessarily in existence yet with you and your daughter.
Therefore the question is not about what you already have. It's about whether you want to actually invest in that, and whether you have enough interest and importance to invest yourself 100%.
In this, because you've invested 100% with your husband, whatever differences you have you’ve both learned how to move in a direction of cooperation with each other.
ANON X: Absolutely. Absolutely.
ELIAS: But you and your daughter don't have that, yet. You don't know how to cooperate with each other yet.
ANON X: Okay. There it goes interesting again. (Laughs) The rest was interesting too but you know… (Laughs) In regards to my daughter, when you say, "You don't know, how... da-da yet,” what you just said, I can understand it. Like okay, there it… there would be the potential for a relationship in this.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Between us, and but due to, let's say, my trauma-related influences from my side, I haven't yet developed. Let's… It’s a wonky wording. Don't, don’t nail me on it. I could improve. I could develop more, let's say, skills – it's a little tricky word – for a satisfying relationship with her.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Fulfilling relationship with her.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: In a sense, like you could… My god, language hurdle. Like if you have certain skills, you can have a relationship with no matter who the other person is.
ELIAS: In varying degrees.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: Not necessarily an intimate relationship, but yes.
ANON X: Yeah, like, like… (sighs) if you're a good social worker, and you go—
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: — and you go into, let’s say, a prison where really, really tough guys are incarcerated for insidious crimes and stuff, but you in yourself have a personality developed and express yourself as a personality completely accepting and whatever. You wouldn't have an intimate relationship like you would have it with your partner, but you have a—
ELIAS: Correct.
ANON X: — an accepting, nurturing and flourishing in a sense relationship, because you bring that to the table.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Are you talking in that direction?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Okay. That I'm interested in. Let's go.
ELIAS: Very well. Then that means that it's a matter of dropping your expectations of her and not moving in a direction of “I will want this relationship with her if she wants it.” No. It's about you. And very similar to what you expressed about the social worker, it's their job. Then it's very similar looking at yourself, that this is something that you're taking on as your job.
ANON X: I see.
ELIAS: And in that that's how you can drop the expectations of her, drop whatever you assume about her, and simply move in the direction of what you want and how to accomplish that.
ANON X: Mm-hm. Okay. Okay. This is interesting for me.
(Portion omitted)
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: And this is my perception of it at the moment, what we do. Me developing being more capable in “x,” for expressing that, bringing myself more into the capability. Which includes, if I understand you correctly, refraining from the desire, if you will – not in your definition of the term – but that that the other takes responsibility for their side and stuff.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANON X: Yeah, I understand. Accepting the other as the other expresses, period.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANON X: Mm-hm. Okay. Yeah, I understand.
ELIAS: Without, without any expectations. No expectations of them to take responsibility for themself or their choices or their behaviors or their actions, nothing. Not expecting them to follow your guidelines or what is important to you, but putting this, in a manner of speaking, goal in front of yourself that this person – regardless of what their guidelines are, regardless of what their opinions are – that this person is important to you and that you want to create some type of relationship with this person. (Pause) Do you believe that you can do that?
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: Ah! Excellent.
ANON X: (Chuckles) Yes. This is attractive to me and I… I… Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Since we are coming close to the end and we have to deepen this in more time than we have available now, I would continue in the follow-up session, and would—
ELIAS: Very well.
(Audio ends after 49 minutes)
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