Dealing with Childhood Trauma
Topics:
“Dealing with Childhood Trauma”
“What Do YOU Want?”
“Reciprocity Is Not Acceptance”
“Reactive Behaviors”
Tuesday, March 3, 2026 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Anon X
ELIAS: Good evening!
ANON X: Good evening! (Both laugh) Oh my god! (Both laugh) It was so many attempts to have this session. (Laughs)
ELIAS: And how are you proceeding, my friend?
ANON X: Well—
ELIAS: What are you accomplishing?
ANON X: Oh my god, Elias. (Both laugh) You sent me on quite a journey the last session when you said, “You are not hearing.” (Elias chuckles) “You are not.” (Elias chuckles) “Okay,” I said, “What is he talking about? Let’s see.” And it was like hours and hours and hours of finding out what I’m not hearing, and I found a lot. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Ah! Congratulations.
ANON X: I have found a lot and I know what you mean now. (Laughs)
ELIAS: I would say that is excellent. Do tell.
ANON X: Well, there is… There is… things. It’s different components. One component is of course the language barrier, you know? But I also have heard that this happens to native speakers, that they understand, assimilate and get it after the session. In the session is a different situation. So that is one part.
The other part is lacking of knowledge. When you sometimes have terms that are loaded with a lot of content and information, and I don’t even know that this is one of these terms. Then you say a sentence and you do like four different words in one sentence, and I catch maybe one or two words. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Ah!
ANON X: And so I learned a lot about these… these… Like for example, the importance of concentration or assumptions. What you personally have in mind, let’s say, when you just use the word “assumption.” You know? And when you have this objective information and knowledge, when you really like work your way through so that you have it in your mind, accessible, you can access it, of course you get much more out of a session because you hear much more content and you can navigate in the session differently.
And then of course there is things that were difficult for me to… I would say for simple, just to make it simple, to open up to.
ELIAS: Very well. Such as?
ANON X: Yeah. It’s several, but sometimes when you were talking about my husband and you brought it up the last time, his use of alcohol and what it meant to me would be the trigger, the associations and my concentration on and my perception of it, and everything related to that. And when I understand it in the way that you tried to present it to me and I open up to that, having also the knowledge that I was speaking about before, then… Then everything like changes, in a way. (Sighs) Does this also make sense to you?
ELIAS: Mm. Offer an example.
ANON X: Yeah. Let’s see. What example can I…? Let’s… Let’s pick up the session where we left and dive into the topics. Perhaps we can combine this. You said when I look at my father, this will give me a hint. You know? How he expressed himself. Not specifically, if I understand, if I understood you correctly, not specifically like what he did to me in terms of traumatic experiences that he caused, so to speak, but… Hm. Do I get it together? I don’t know. Ooh, Elias. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Take your time. Take your time.
ANON X: Yeah. Okay, another example. Perhaps this is… This also helpful. When we were talking about the grandchildren.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And they are ringing at the door and they… And we were talking about reflections and when we were talking about the specifics in our little… Like two or three times, and I was thinking okay, in the context of your reflection. What is the reflection? And the reflection for me was not as specifically that the kids are… are… It was two things. It was for me the challenge, how the kids are raised and socialized in a way that some of it was triggering, but it’s also, the main trigger was for me like, “Okay, now it happens again that I will have conflict with my husband and my husband is so conflict shy. And it will be me who is the weird one.” This is something that showed up in the sessions often.
This is my reflection, that I am the weird one. While the kids were not coming and saying, “Oh, there is grandmother, the weird one,” they were just coming and wanting to play and have a great time with the granddad or maybe both of us. And… And there are dimensions and layers and aspects and topics associated with just a simple situation of the children ringing the doorbell, and I could see some of them but not all of them. And we were not even also addressing to all of them in the sessions. Because…
ELIAS: Correct, I would say. Yes. But in that, we were addressing to the ones that you were focused on at the time.
ANON X: Right. Right. Because you say reflection is… You project, you reflect and then you say reflection is the presentment of choice. And I always, since then, now, since the (sighs) deep reinvolvement with the information, so to speak, on this new explorative journey—
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: I look at these things that happened to me and I… I think. Okay. There is this box where the money’s supposed to go out, come out, and I put in the card and the card has always been working. And it says, “Access denied. Function not allowed.” And this, the first time it was when… around the time when we had the session in January. And I just said, “Oh my god! Is this a reflection of me and my husband being…?” and dah dah dah dah dah. And then I just thought I’d just try it again. And the second time it worked. (Elias chuckles) You know? And then yesterday, I was at the same machine and it happened again. The machine said, “Card is denied access because the function is disabled.” And I just said, “Oh, okay. Again. I’ll just try it again.” And it only happens on this machine? And everywhere else it happens? So I could… I could… You know, I could read this as a reflection of, “Oh god! What am I doing inside?” but I can also see, “Okay, let’s see if this part is just the machine in this case?” And because it’s… You know, the logical thinking: “It’s working everywhere else. I just try it a second time. It works flawlessly. Okay, maybe this is a shitty machine.” You know?
ELIAS: Yes. A reflection isn’t a mirror.
ANON X: Right.
ELIAS: Therefore the reflection is your opportunity, as you expressed, for choice. That you look at that and you evaluate: “What are my choices in this? This is something that is being presented for me to pay attention to. It doesn’t mean I’m doing something wrong or that something bad is happening. It’s simply a reflection to allow me to be aware of the choices that I’m making.”
ANON X: Yeah. Okay. But Elias, what is…? I understand that. I have read several times the differentiation between reflection and mirror, but sometimes… Then I have a challenge with understanding what is the reflection, because sometimes it seems that you project, you reflect, and like when I have a scattered energy or a very unsettled energy, things are falling down and breaking and dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah. And that would make sense to me as a reflection and… and I can… Okay, I settle myself. I center myself, I calm down and dah dah dah dah dah, and things stop happening like they did before. But some things seem to be like as if they were independent of me, as if the machine is… This machine is not working. The next machine is working. So where is the reflection in that? What is it?
ELIAS: What is the reflection? It’s about you looking at that, you paying attention, and what are your choices? That’s the point: “What are my choices? I can continue to use this machine that isn’t working or that is broken, and I can continue to frustrate myself or annoy myself or even frighten myself, or I can move to a different machine. I can make a different choice instead of continuing to move in the same direction and allowing myself to be caught up in my own head about what does this mean, rather than simply moving to a different choice, moving to a different machine.”
ANON X: Okay. Okay. I understand. Another example. When I am… When I was triggered around Christmas when things were challenging for me for various reasons, when I looked at my husband the face of my husband, which is the same face (laughs), you know? Like it is now. Of course, he is a couple of days older, blah blah blah, but essentially my husband is my husband. He’s not suddenly a different person.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And when I was… When I was dealing with the challenges inside, certain facial expressions of my husband started to trigger me. And the effect of that was that my thinking changed, the patterns, the patterns that I started to talk, what I paid attention to, I was like automatically caught in some way. And I noticed that I started to say certain things which I would not say when I’m not triggered. I would feel differently. I would dah dah dah dah dah. It started a whole kind of almost cascade. And now, since I have completely rebalanced myself – I mean completely, considerably rebalanced myself – and the triggers are not active, it’s the same face and I remember, “Oh, this face used to trigger me, but it doesn’t trigger me now.”
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And… And when I looked at this face and it triggered me, and I look at it like now and what does it mean to me? It means like bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah. And this, “What does it mean?” is a part of a situation of reflection. Which meaning do I give to it? And then comes what are the choices, and I can spend endless time on what does it mean and dah dah dah or I can say—
ELIAS: That is one of the choices.
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: To spend endless time following that.
ANON X: Right.
ELIAS: That’s what I mean by following feelings.
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: A feeling starts it.
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: Perhaps that may be something that is also a source of confusion in how I have explained that, because most of it is about thinking, but it begins with a feeling. You have a feeling and the feeling might not be extreme. It might be simply something that you notice, but it triggers you to begin thinking and thinking and then you tangent from one line of thinking to another line and to another line and you keep thinking. And you get lost in all of that thinking, and you use a lot of time and you upset yourself.
ANON X: Upset and obsess.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANON X: Both. Both.
ELIAS: Definitely.
ANON X: Yes. Yes. That’s my experience.
ELIAS: Yes. That’s one choice, but that’s not the only choice. That’s one choice that when it begins, it’s like the machine. It’s very much like the machine. Actually it’s the same action. You can keep being in front of that one machine and frustrate and irritate and bother yourself, or you can make a different choice. In the same manner, you can look at your husband, you can look at that face and it might trigger something from before, your experiences from before.
ANON X: Right.
ELIAS: And you can choose to move in the direction of thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking or you can look at that and you can notice, “Very well, yes, it triggered a feeling and I have other choices. I don’t have to think about this.”
ANON X: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. We agree. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Aha!
ANON X: (Laughs) I would… We were talking about trauma the last time and you said it’s not an event specifically. It is in my case more like an ongoing condition. This is my wording now, for lack of precise memory, and I started to dig up stuff around that in my personal sessions. And what came to my awareness was the term and the concept of responsibility, and I wanted to go somewhat deeper into that because, after all, the session now and the coming ones are about addressing to the traumatic aspects that are still influencing me in ways that are not to my benefit, so to speak.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Okay. So, could you…? Could you…? I have asked (name removed) if this is a situation – because she's doing trauma sessions – where you kind of take the lead, or if the client is directing it, and she said when you notice that the client is ready, then you kind of take the lead. Right? Correct?
ELIAS: Mm. To a degree. What I express to the individual is I begin asking questions about what they remember.
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: Because it's a matter of putting together memories and feelings.
ANON X: Yes. Yes.
ELIAS: Therefore that's the first piece, is that I ask the individual what they remember. If they cannot produce a memory, that's acceptable, and I will instruct them to explore that until our next meeting, giving them time to access some memories that lead them in the direction of recalling the trauma. If they only have feelings about traumas, then I express again. I give them time to attempt to recall what those feelings are associated with.
ANON X: Mm-hm. Well in my case, I have a memory of the average climate I was living in. Social climate, atmosphere, and I have some, I guess the term would be poignant memories.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: And…
ELIAS: If you already have memories that you recall, that's good because then we can begin with that.
ANON X: I don't have many memories.
ELIAS: It doesn't matter. I'd say that one or two is sufficient.
ANON X: Okay. Then let's take one, for example.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: My father, the way I experienced him, when… when… What I… What I remember was that he was often very exhausted and overwhelmed and aggressive. That's just my wording from nowadays but as a child, I experienced it as, “Oh, you have to tiptoe around him, because he is dangerous.” And, and he had these—
ELIAS: What we want to explore is what you experienced as a child, not how you rationalize it now.
ANON X: Right. Right. Right. For example, one memory would be we were supposed to be quiet in bed. It was nighttime and we were supposed to be sleeping, and we wouldn't sleep. We were four kids, and two or three were in one room and one was in the other room. This was the boy. And we were not quiet. He would be able to hear us, and so he made us kneel on the… We had a staircase which was made of stone, and we were to kneel on the staircase in distance from each other, and to kneel there as a punishment and not supposed to talk. And if we would talk, he would come and beat us. And of course, we were tired and we were kids, and a sound came out of us and he started. You know? This is one of the experiences.
Or one time, my brother was in the garden and he was playing around with a self-made kind of whip,
and my father was like losing his mind and started to… He tore the whip out of the hands of my brother and started to beat him through the garden, whip him through the garden into a corner. And I was observing that. And he had these outbursts, and you kind of never knew when he would start with the outbursts. So you would always—
ELIAS: Did something precede the outbursts or no?
ANON X: It was building. He was… He was demanding something from us that… that was not like childlike possible. Age—
ELIAS: I understand. But what I'm expressing to you is: was there something with him? Such as many people have these types of experiences, and the parent was engaging some type of substance. Therefore the children knew, but not always.
ANON X: Oh, I can't remember that for sure. It's possible that he might have come home from work and had dinner and had a glass of beer. I don't know. I don't know for sure, and I can't—
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: I could ask my sibling, but... if she remembers something, because I'm the youngest of four.
ELIAS: That's also very helpful – and I will instruct you in that direction, which I do with everyone – is in relation to siblings, it is significant to engage information from them because their experiences are going to be different than yours.
ANON X: Of course, of course. I asked my sister last week. I had the spontaneous idea to ask her, because she's four years older. And I asked her, “Do you have memories of our parents being like, happy together, or at least relaxed, fine together? Or were they always like I remember them? Have you different memories?” And she said, “Not really. Not really.”
ELIAS: Therefore her experience is the same as yours?
ANON X: I would have to go deeper, asking, inquiring deeper of her, but it seems like they were stressed pretty early with each other, and with—
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: —and with their life, lives.
ELIAS: They were stressed with each other? Or their life in general?
ANON X: I would think their life itself and with each other. Both. Both.
ELIAS: Both.
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: I mean, they are of course, age-wise, they were born in ’33, ’34.. They had the World War Two experience. My father had the displacement experience. He was pretty traumatized from that, as I would say now today with nowadays’ knowledge about things, and he also had a difficult family. His father had a second family, and it was all rather… rather messy, in a way.
ELIAS: And repeat: what was their experience and involvement in the war?
ANON X: Well, my mother was, as far as I remember, having been told that she was the oldest of five children and her father was like put in prison. He was suddenly, suddenly gone, and then the mother was also gone. And my mother had around the age of 10, plus, minus, to care for her four younger children, siblings, in the war times. And of course, that was pretty tough. She never spoke about these things, and I never really asked her because I had the feeling that these memories are painful for her and better not to be touched. And—
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: And so I didn't ask her, and now she’s… She disengaged last year, and my father is also gone already. And my father was in an area which was invaded by the Nazis, and then the Germans were displaced. They were like… When things… They had to flee. There were, there were... I'm lacking terms. You know, when people have to leave their country because they are not welcome anymore because they are offspring of the Nazi nation.
ELIAS: Refugees.
ANON X: Yeah, but not, not, not, not really voluntarily, but they are forced refugees.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: Actually, most refugees are forced.
ANON X: Okay. Displaced. Expelled.
ELIAS: And where did they go? Where did he go?
ANON X: He came to Bavaria.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: And how old was he when he went to Bavaria?
ANON X: I don't really know. I don't really know.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: It’s the same, like with my mother. They didn't talk about it. Sudeten Territories, it was called, where he came from.
ELIAS: Very well. I would say that’s not unusual. This was two entire generations that didn’t speak about their experiences or any other experiences. I would say from the time of approximately the early 1930s to the early 1950s, this was a time in which people did not share. And they, because they learned not to share about their experiences, it carried over into the next time framework of the 1960s. And in that, that was something that also influenced the younger people in European countries, in British countries and in the American countries to, to be rebellious. But let me express to you: now; in that (pause) your parents weren’t actually involved with the war, directly? Correct?
ANON X: Not in the sense of being soldiers or so. I would think—
ELIAS: They were influenced and affected—
ANON X: Yeah, impacted. Impacted by it, but not—
ELIAS: Yes. Impacted but not part of the actual engagement directly in the war.
ANON X: Yeah, not in the sense of being a soldier. They were too young for that, I guess.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct.
ANON X: And I don’t know how much bombing or so they would have experienced. Physical, I mean infrastructure destruction and stuff, how much they experienced of that, I don’t know.
ELIAS: They would have experienced a lot.
ANON X: Yeah, I guess so, but how much I don’t know specifically. I don’t know the specific places where they were at the time, and if they have been brought, like to the countryside, for example my mother, or whatever. I don’t know. I really don’t know.
ELIAS: Very well. Very well.
Now; back to your father and his moods. In that, obviously he wasn’t, in your perception or what you noticed, a heavy drinker.
ANON X: No, no, no. I wouldn’t… He was functional. He would go to work. And, and he… Not a heavy drinker. Not a clear alcoholic. No.
ELIAS: Very well. And in that, actually that makes the situation more difficult because then as children you have even more unpredictability. At least if the parent is engaging some type of substance, it’s a situation that allows the children to have something to be aware of, that this is something that is likely going to trigger uncomfortable experiences. But if there is nothing, then it’s simply a matter of this individual themself has either been considerably traumatized themselves, which unaddressed to alters your brain—
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: — and therefore can create many different types of situations. It can even create some types of psychosis.
ANON X: Mm-hm. Yes.
ELIAS: Therefore in that, with nothing to objectively observe with the parent, then that becomes even more unsafe because you have nothing to point to.
ANON X: This is what I meant, that it was unpredictable when these outbursts would come suddenly. In one moment in the same situation he might have been safe, but in the next moment or in another moment, a similar situation he would explode and he would be physically violent or whatever, come up with some kind of punishment, and… or he also had this… He had a belt, a leather belt.
ELIAS: Mm-hm.
ANON X: And he would use the leather belt on the naked buttock, and stuff like that.
ELIAS: Yes. Which is considerably abusive.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: Yes, I very much understand.
Now; the next question I would pose to you is: what behaviors can you see or point to that you still have now, that were developed and associated with these experiences and the experience of not ever being safe when you were a child? And if you can't answer, that is fine.
ANON X: Um… (Pause)
ELIAS: I would say experiences of avoidance or pleasing, or being rebellious and doing the opposite of, not pleasing and not being told what to do, or being afraid at times that it doesn't seem necessarily appropriate to be afraid, or having reactions to things that seem out of proportion for the situation.
ANON X: Just a second, please.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: One moment, please. (Addressing husband)
Okay, my husband just came home and now he has information. Um… Well…
ELIAS: Those are simply examples. And as I said, you don't, you don’t have to have an answer yet. If you don't answer, if you can't answer the question yet, then I will express that for homework for our next conversation.
ANON X: Okay. I guess what I can say right away is that I would always look if people are safe. Safe in the sense of if they are... I mean nowadays. I have worked a lot on myself and through stuff, let's say.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: Safe in the sense of are they like unpredictable and violent, and are they like very openly discounting and aggressive and stuff. This is like red flags which I see right away. But if I go deeper, like if I approach individuals closer and involve myself with them, I will always stay somewhat alerted if they are... how they would move through conflicts, for example, or tensions or disharmony phases with… among each other, how they would handle that, and if they show some kind of self-awareness and responsibility from their side to move through such a situation. And like you would say, there’s three aspects in a relationship. There's the two people, and there is the relationship itself.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And the relationship itself for me, I always have an eye on is the other participant taking care of the gestalt of the relationship itself as well. You know? And… and if they are not, or if they are like doing it in a way that is conflict-laden and not… Then I tend to withdraw, completely withdraw.
ELIAS: Very well. And therefore, that's what you do with your children?
ANON X: Yes. That's what I’ve done. I have done. That's what I said in the last session. That's what I have done. That's where we are at the moment, like still.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANON X: Because—
ELIAS: And again I will ask you, and I may repeat this question—
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: — several times moving forward, because the answer might change.
ANON X: Yes. Understood.
ELIAS: Sometimes it does.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: Therefore I would ask you, since we are moving in this direction: what do you want in relation to your children and grandchildren?
ANON X: Oh. (Sighs) Okay. Well, I have to say you might know it from your ability to spy on energies and everything. (Both laugh)
ELIAS: That's new! I like that. That I am now a spying ghost. Excellent. (Both laugh)
ANON X: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You can. (Elias laughs) I have asked you a couple of times about how, how is X or Y doing, like, for example, when (name removed) was… has disappeared, and then you said, “Oh, she's mentally not well,” and dah-dah-dah. And this is, for me, what I call spying. (Chuckles)
ELIAS: Ah, very well. (Both laugh)
ANON X: Okay, so—
ELIAS: Continue.
ANON X: Yeah, or you can say a scrying, a scrying spy. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Aha! That too. (Chuckles)
ANON X: Okay. No, but… So at the time, at the time, I think it was when I made this step. It was… it was a different situation than it is now, and I was different at the time. Now it is, especially like with my daughter and her family, that the signals, like I said the last time, this, the last, up to… There is no update now, but up to the last time I had a signal was that she's completely opposing and not interested in contact with me, and I respect that. Because I think if she is sending this signal, then I have to respect that. And if I would go like, “Okay, it's been five years now. What do you think about having a cup of tea together in some cafe or so? Not, in a private place,” I'm not sure. This is… There is a side of me that says, “Okay, I could do that.” And then there is a side of me that says, “No, she doesn't want that. Don't even do that. She would experience that already as an intrusive stepping over her boundaries and whatever,” Like, “Don't you listen? I have said, I don't like you.” Like because like I said, the last time she said, “How can you even live with this person?” to my husband. This is my last update, so to speak.
ELIAS: Yes, but that's not what I asked you.
ANON X: Okay, what did you ask me? What? (Elias laughs) Repeat. Repeat, please.
ELIAS: Very well. I asked you what you want, not what she wants.
ANON X: Okay. What I would want, what would be moving forward in in progressive, beneficial ways. Like I have, I have grown and I am more able to be more accepting and also more seeing her side, because at the time I didn't see her side enough. You know, her situation and her side. This is something I have… I have… I would, I would like state that I didn't see her side. And for me, it's not that I don't like her. I like her, and I would like to be in contact with her and her kids and her husband, I guess, if he would like to, on a new level, on a new maturity level in a different inner configuration, inner setting, so to speak. I can see some of her points, even if I don't completely, I can see how she sees things and I can understand it, and I can… I think we would start… We could, we could potentially move to a different dynamic between us. So that's perhaps how it would have to be worded.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: Does it make sense? Is this answering it?
ELIAS: Yes, it does. Yes, it does. And I would say the reason I ask is because it makes a difference in how we proceed.
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: And, and as I said, I will likely ask you that question repeatedly because your answer might change. And in this, I will say that for now we will move in the direction of you wanting to engage some type of relationship with her.
ANON X: Yes. Actually, yes.
ELIAS: Very well. Then in that, I would first acknowledge you and express that I agree. You have grown considerably. You have expanded your awareness considerably and you've moved in a direction of acceptance, which is also significant. Therefore, I would say that in relation to all of that, that's a good beginning.
In this, it's a matter of being able to look at your participation – and I know you have, but I'm expressing about it more – look at your participation in relation to the breakdown of the relationship. And in that, being able to look at your behaviors. This is key, because this relates to your trauma. And in that, it also relates to, with your trauma, your association of safe and not safe, and unpredictability equals unsafe.
And in the past, from what you have shared with myself, your daughter had... had a tendency to be unpredictable. And that behavior is unsafe and scary, and that creates certain reactions in behaviors on your part.
Now, that doesn't excuse them, but it does offer a reason. And in that, it's important for you to be able to look at that and take responsibility for your choices before you can move in a direction of even beginning to develop a new relationship with her.
ANON X: I have a question.
ELIAS: Yes?
ANON X: Um… (Sighs) Okay, breaking it down to the simple question without context. It seems to me, at this very moment it seems to me like there were two reactions simultaneously on my end when she had these anger outbursts, let's say. Because there was a difference between anger and aggression. Sometimes it was both and sometimes it was more the anger alone. And it seems, now it seems to me like…(Gasps) Was there two reactions on my side, as automatic, and I only noticed one?
ELIAS: Yes. And that's very, very possible.
ANON X: Is…? Like… Okay, the one that I was aware of was okay, she's angry and she expresses in an exceptional way, and we have trained that that is acceptable and… But it's… The point is how do we continue? And she seems to not want to take responsibility for her side and that is the trigger for me to say, okay, but we have trained that and that is important to me. That is the piece that I was aware of.
And the piece that I was not aware of, there was like automatically running the show beneath my awareness was okay, that is a similar situation to my childhood, and like with the face of my husband, there would be a pattern starting after the trigger, and as long as I know I'm not aware of the pattern (laughs) I'm not aware of directing it intentionally. And when I became aware of the pattern, “Oh, okay, there it is again. Okay. Stop it. (Laughs) Stop it.”
ELIAS: I understand. Yes.
ANON X: I know. I mean stop it in my side.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: I don't want to go that—
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANON X: I don't want to follow that rabbit hole. I, “Ah! I see the trigger. Aha!”
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: “We do something. I do something different.” So it seems—
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: It seems like there were two things happening simultaneously, but I was only aware of one.
ELIAS: And which one were you aware of?
ANON X: The one where, where I would say okay, we... Because my objective had been all the time to not just pass on stuff and patterns from my childhood to my children. I did a lot of work. I did a lot of therapy and what have you, to not just simply pass on stuff.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANON X: And so I… Kind of my… My (inaudible) was to train, to cultivate with us different, different structures and dynamics. Like okay, not swallow up feelings but express them, not store them and explode at some time. You can take responsibility. We are all equal in value and we talk openly and we express openly, and we can move through things in ways that they are open on the table, and don't have to come like on… burst out someplace and stuff. That's what I what my objective was, and that's what I was really, really engaged in, in how I raised my kids. And that's why it was so frustrating to me that even as adults, they wouldn't do it. They wouldn't express it. And that's what when I said at some point, “Okay, okay. Okay, you want to go this route. I don't want to go this route with you.”
ELIAS: Now; what I would say is in this, your reaction has to do with reciprocation, with reciprocity. And in this, that's not acceptance. And what I would say to you is when you want to establish a relationship with an adult child, it is as the parent important for you to be able to genuinely be coming from a direction of focusing on you and your participation and your responsibility in relation to your behaviors. Because without that piece in the beginning, you're going to be met with a wall because the wall is already there. And what you want to do is move around that wall, but you can't do that unless you're coming to the other individual in surrender.
ANON X: I understand.
ELIAS: Therefore the first piece for you -- ultimately it would be involving the relationship – but the first piece is for you to be healing what has been expressed with you, that has created these traumas with you that you've carried throughout your life. One of them is a behavior that has been influenced by your traumas about being right and having that be acknowledged.
ANON X: Okay. I know you have—
ELIAS: And making that important and therefore generating expectations of the other individual. This is a behavior. This is not something that you necessarily automatically think about.
ANON X: Mm-hm.
ELIAS: It's a reaction.
ANON X: Mm-hm. Can I—
ELIAS: And that is—
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: That is also a very significant piece, is being able to define and recognize reactive behaviors.
(The timer for the end of the session rings)
ANON X: Yes.
ELIAS: Because reactive behaviors are associated with issues and traumas.
ANON X: Yes. Yes. Yes. Can I say something?
ELIAS: Absolutely.
ANON X: Okay. My wording is, and my experience, and with the experience the wording, it's like when I have a reaction, it's like I go to the amygdala hijack, and I am in black and white, and I am in rigid and in this rigid, there is this being right or wrong and stuff.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANON X: It's not… It's not exactly, actually my personality, because when I—
ELIAS: Oh, I'm very aware of that.
ANON X: Because when I… When I manage to go into, not this fight, flight, freeze or attack, fight, bah, bah, but like take a pause, take a break, open up for more choices, go into prefrontal cortex area, I'm not rigid. I'm not conceptually accepting but genuinely accepting, and I see more choices. I see more.... There is more creativity. There is a different kind of empathy. There is everything. There is a whole… a whole colorful world, instead of just black and white reaction.
ELIAS: Precisely. I very much agree with you, but what we are addressing to is what happens in the moment.
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: Not what happens later when you are reflecting on what has happened, but what happens in the moment that creates the reaction.
ANON X: Yes. Yeah.
ELIAS: And in that, moving in a direction of addressing to what's influencing those reactions and creating expressions and behaviors that you don't like and that aren't you, but they are coping mechanisms. They are what you have developed in behaviors to cope and to protect yourself. Therefore, what we are doing is moving in a direction to allow you to recognize those influences and when those influences are being touched or triggered, and therefore then immediately creating a reaction of a behavior that isn't you—
ANON X: Mm-hm. Yeah.
ELIAS — and that you don't want to do.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: But it's so automatic because you're protecting yourself.
ANON X: Mm-hm. Okay. Okay. Thank you
.
ELIAS: You're very welcome. And let me express to you a tremendous acknowledgement to you of your willingness to move in this direction, and your (pause) flexibility and allowance. I would say that this has been a long time coming, my friend (Anon X chuckles), but I've always known that it was in you.
ANON X: Thank you. Thank you.
ELIAS: I express to you in this interim time, until our next meeting, to be looking at behaviors,
to be looking at reactions, and I want you to choose one more memory other than the one on the stairs. We will use the one on the stairs and I want you to choose one more.
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: Also in the interim time framework, I want you to talk to your siblings about their experiences if they will share. They might not, and that's acceptable.
ANON X: I have only contact with one sibling.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: Then ask her about her experiences and her perception of your parents. Not only your father, but your mother also. I will also express to you one more thing: to look at and evaluate your relationship with your siblings, your relationship growing up and your situation now.
ANON X: Okay.
ELIAS: Very well, my friend. I would say to you, congratulations. This was a very productive conversation.
ANON X: (Chuckles) Thank you. (Chuckles)
ELIAS: I would say you are definitely deserving of that.
ANON X: Thank you. Thank you.
ELIAS: I shall be looking forward to our next conversation, and I will be offering my energy to you constantly in support.
ANON X: Thank you. Thank you.
ELIAS: Because I am aware that these things are not necessarily comfortable.
ANON X: No, they are not comfortable. That's right. (Elias laughs) But, but they also, at the moment, at least they are not as painful or as like (exhales) overwhelming as they would have been some time ago, I guess.
ELIAS: I agree.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: I agree.
ANON X: Yeah.
ELIAS: And I express a tremendous acknowledgement to you in your strength.
ANON X: (Sighs) (Laughs) Thank you.
ELIAS: In tremendous, tremendous love to you and in precious friendship, as always, au revoir.
ANON X: Au revoir. Bye-bye. Thank you. (Laughs)
(Elias departs after 1 hour 8 minutes)
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