The Interconnectedness of Everything
Topics:
“The Interconnectedness of Everything”
“Honing Energy-Reading Skills”
“You Learn from Everything You Present to Yourself”
“Simply Smile at People”
Saturday, January 3, 2026 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Ann (Vivette)
ELIAS: Good morning!
ANN: Good morning. Good morning, good morning!
ELIAS: (Laughs) And what shall we discuss this morning?
ANN: Well, we’ll see how it flows. I have some curiosities. I’ll see how it all unfolds. I had the most marvelous conversation with Mary. I feel like I had so many full-circle moments. It felt really good. It felt empowering, satisfied, clarity—
ELIAS: Excellent.
ANN: Pop! Pop! Pop! Pop! Pop! It’s so good.
ELIAS: Excellent.
ANN: But you know me, I am a curious being, so…
ELIAS: (Laughs) Yes, you are.
ANN: And things that I’m thinking about. And I was thinking, I thought, “Oh, I’m going to talk to Elias about it.” And I thought I want to kind of hone my reading energy skills and such, and like this curious thing, so... It feels a little fuzzy so you can maybe help bring it into clarity or what I was picking up on or… because I'm not quite sure exactly what I was picking up on.
Anyhow, so a few weeks ago we were in California visiting John's parents and putting, helping put his dad in a facility, for his health or whatever. And anyhow we were there. So in California, Huntington Beach, southern California and I was walking to the pier and back from their house. They live about a mile away and so there’s this walk I do, and when I’m walking I’m just feeling the energy and the people. And it’s not all people, but I’m like, “What is it that I am picking up on?” And I couldn’t quite place it. The word that comes to my head was “slow.” I want to say – and I’m not saying slow as in dumb, I’m just like… And I’m thinking is it slow because it’s an ocean community, and the surfer vibe, and things are more relaxed? Is it slow? Or this energy of…? Also, the people, some of them, and maybe – I don't know if it's just the people that I had met and interacted with – but there the other word that comes up is “shell,” like a shell, like these people… There's some, a little bit, disempowerment that I felt with a lot of people and some kind of a shell and slow. And you know, I catch myself thinking, “Oh, I don't want to be derogatory or…” but I didn't mean that. (Sighs) You know, maybe a little judgmental, but I didn't want to necessarily be judgmental. But I was just like, “There is this energy I am picking up on,” and I just wanted to have you maybe help me, tell me what is it that I was picking up on when… What was it I was picking up on?
ELIAS: And this is the energy that you're experiencing from the people in this place, correct?
ANN: Correct. The people, yes. I think yes, mostly the people.
ELIAS: And was this a different energy than what you have experienced previously?
ANN: At the same place? At the same area?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: I don’t think it’s different. I just think I was paying attention to it more. I do know it feels a lot different than… like the east coast-west coast thing, the people of the east coast. I live in a… I'm in this beach community here and it feels different. The people feel, the energy feels different here than it does on, on there.
ELIAS: And how would you classify the difference?
ANN: Yeah, that's a good question because I hadn't thought. I would say… I hesitate. I guess I'm not going to hesitate to say. I'm… I hesitate to say because I feel like it's so judgmental. But I would feel, just to say it, I would just feel like there felt more fake. It felt more like people were more zombies. (Laughs) And I say this knowing it's not accurate, but that's just the feeling that I was getting more, as they were… even more maybe influenceable or more… I just felt… They just felt more disempowered.
Even though I know that as I say this, the reason I'm having a hard time is because I don't feel that it's true. But, but there's something. What is it that I'm feeling up, picking up on? Being… I felt like (sighs) like they were almost hypnotized or something, like I was walking in this land of hypnotized people. Not everybody. Not everybody, of course, but there seemed… this… (Sighs) Something like that. I want to say hypnotized, I would say disempowered. Like I see people and I don't know if it's just the people that I was rendezvous-ing with, I feel very creative, I feel people ripe with creativity or something, but I feel like they hadn’t believed it and then… but they… but they don't believe in themselves or something. I don't know, Elias. It's very hard for me to verbalize what I was feeling, which is kind of why I wanted to have you help me. (Laughs)
ELIAS: I very much understand. And I would say that what you are feeling or sensing, in a manner of speaking, is a disconnect.
ANN: Oh, yeah. Yeah! Yes.
ELIAS: That they are disconnected, and therefore you're sensing that piece of your own interconnectedness that you are aware of and it's falling flat in relation to the other individuals in that place. Actually, I would say that this is something that is very common throughout (pause), throughout that entire area. Not simply that one area but I would say, for the most part, throughout that state.
ANN: Mm. That makes sense.
ELIAS: Now, that doesn't mean that that is everyone.
ANN: Correct.
ELIAS: But it is, I would say, the majority.
Now, when I say the majority, I'd clarify that and say that the majority is more than fifty percent, but not tremendously more.
ANN: Okay. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I kind of get it. I know… I remember once when we were in Mexico, on the east side of Mexico, we were in Playa, not Playa, where were we? Anyhow, the east side of Mexico and we did this excursion and I remember the leader or the guide, the excursion guide, was saying things. I could feel a connection with him and kind of like an awareness. I feel like I get it, to that interconnected, like I could feel the connection. Interesting!
ELIAS: I'd say that's very easy, to feel the connections in Mexico.
ANN: Oh yeah! Why? Why? Oh my god!
ELIAS: The people in Mexico are very connected with each other, and a lot of that comes from family. They're very family-oriented, which is also why many of them have large families, but they also include extended family. They have a great appreciation of all family, and they also have an appreciation and a respect for older family members. And in that, that translates into their communities, and they are very interconnected with each other. Which then also translates into people that come to Mexico and the people there are very friendly. And I’d say that this is also very similar with Italy. They are also another country that is very family-oriented and in that, they’re very interconnected with each other and their community. And therefore they’re also very welcoming—
ANN: Yeah!
ELIAS: — of other people that come to their country.
ANN: Oh, wow! That really makes sense. Wow!
ELIAS: Therefore, you would see a marked difference if you were to be in California and then travel down to Mexico, the difference in the people between that southern portion of California. And it's not different in the northern portion of California, but you're not near another country to see the difference.
But in southern California, you are and if you were to go to Mexico from there, you would see this considerable difference in the manner in which people express themselves and what you feel in energy.
ANN: Yeah. Well I know when we had our place in Mexico, loved Mexico, love the Mexican people, but we had a condo in this building that was mostly, and most of our neighbors – oh they were very nice people. They were, a lot of them, from southern California or Arizona or Canada. But especially the southern California ones, there was also, I don’t want to say a repelling energy, I just want to say a not-welcoming energy from… I felt very judgmental—
ELIAS: It’s stand-offish.
ANN: Yes. Stand-offish energy. Not like a connection. And I always thought because of my intermediate orientation and stuff, I do… I’m not – and this may not have anything to do with my orientation or not – but I do like more intimate, smaller, more intimate relationships with people. I would rather have an in-depth conversation than a bunch of small talk in a large party or whatever. And I just felt like you have to put on this façade when you're talking with these people, versus really letting them know, like having a real “This is who I am, and who are you?” connection. It’s like, “This is who you want me to be, or who you think it’s good to be,” and this is, they're showing me who they think is the good thing to show me. You know?
ELIAS: Yes, I understand.
ANN: Wow. Interesting. And then the other thing, and I don't know. Okay. So you know, and I know we're… Talking to Mary too, a little bit of this surface versus thinkers and I talked about this in my last session too, surface people are probably more prone to suggestibility than thinkers. And then I'm… Like I just… Okay, I'm going to say a lot of things, as I usually do. (Both laugh) With the trust of it all coming together into some kind of full-circle moment here again.
But just these thoughts that have been all over recently, all around me. Like I watched this show about this woman in Arizona who became… It's called Evil Influencer and anyhow she got, she was… Obviously you knew she was abused as a child. She belonged to this Mormon community. And anyhow, she started this, she was a therapist, but then got suspended and then started to be, got around it as being this life coach. And she would help people, families. Like marriages, she went to save them. Basically, her thing was all men are sex addicts and to save the family, you have to be separated from them and da-da-da. And the story ends up where there's one woman who was an influencer about her family and showing about raising kids and stuff. Anyhow, it ends up they go to her and then she's telling the husband he needs to leave. And somehow she gets this woman in her little guise, and she even moves in with her. and she's under her influence hugely, and so much so that she even gets the mother to torture her
children because she thinks she's getting these demons out. And I'm sitting there thinking, how could you convince a mother to torture her own children? I mean, I know, I know it happens. It happens even when no one is convincing them. But then I just started to think about this perpetrator/victim cycle.
And actually, one thing that Mary and I talked about, this full-circle moment kind of thing, was I get more frustrated with the victims almost than I do with the perpetrator side of it, although I know it flip-flops back and forth. And then I realized in my conversation with Mary, the reason this is, is because myself, if someone were to perpetrate me, I feel like I would be like, “Get the fuck out of here! You’re not going to do that.” I mean, I don’t feel a threat from a perpetrator because I feel like… I just don’t feel a threat. I mean obviously someone could come up with a gun and overpower me or whatever, but I just don't worry about things like that. And I just think if someone were to try to manipulate me or whatever, I just don't feel that threat.
But what I do feel a threat from is from the victims, because – and I think a lot of part of my life I have spent trying to quote-unquote “empower” victims by telling them they were powerful, which I know,
if you're not ready to hear it, you can't hear it. Or just the conversations with me and my daughter when she thinks she was ugly or stupid, me telling her she's not ugly or stupid, actually was discounting her. And I've been trying to unravel this whole ball of thread for quite a while now, but I do feel disempowered when it comes to victims, because I feel like I don't know how to help them. Which I am learning how to help them is helping myself. I am learning this. So… But I think that was what was triggering me on this whole thing. So I'm watching this show and I'm seeing, and you get so, I'm like this woman, I get angry at her for being a victim and not just saying, “Mmmah!!”
So then I’m thinking, and we touched on this last time, with the surface people being more susceptible to being influenced like this, THAT does scare me a little bit because I'm like, “Okay, if…” You know, how are we going to stop this perpetrator/victim cycle (sighs) if people are going to be so influenceable? And I know not everyone here again, and there’s a lot of people who aren’t, da-da-da, but – and I know I’m talking in generalities – but it still seems like you could… I can see reverberations of this all over in our world. Especially now, in our politics and so many people are being influenced. And then the other thing with people being influenced is this… There's stuff that's going on. But it's true, like you say, the… I mean, I see it when you say the people who are – and I don't even know who they are, I don't even care who they are – the propaganda is they don't care what the propaganda is. They just want people arguing with each other because all this stuff is happening, and that they can go along their merry way and get the stuff they want done, when they keep people arguing with each other.
So I think where I am now is yes, I do get frustrated with people who are so influenceable. And I also am not ignorant enough to think that I know. John and I even talk about this. Yes, I can even look back in times of my life that I was influenceable, and I'm sure this very day I speak, I am influenceable still.
But there's still a part of me that it's like, okay, I'm influenceable, but I feel like I have some common sense. I've always felt like I wasn't necessarily like a genius of anything, but I thought I've got some common fucking sense. I look at things and when things don't make sense to me, I'm like, “They're not making sense. I'm not going to believe you because that, what you're saying, just doesn't fucking make sense.”
So I get a little aggravated when other people aren’t seeing something that isn’t making sense. But then I also know, I got what you said. I also get what you say when you say, “If someone’s not ready to hear it, they will not hear it.” When you used to say that, I would go, “Elias, if you told me some, I don't care, I would hear it.” It just didn't make sense to me, if I was… like I would hear it. But now I'm like, “Oh, I get it,” because if you look at people in cults, and even if a cult is someone like, it gets broken, they've been committing all these laws, and you find out this cult leader was abusing people and taking their money or using them sexually and whatever, even if there's not… Some people will see that and go, “Oh yeah, I was in a bad situation,” but there are some people that you could even say to them, “Hey look. This person is not having your best benefit, and they're using you,” and they would, they wouldn't hear it.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: They could be… They won't hear it. So I am getting that. I'm getting it, which also makes, circle back around –
ELIAS: I would say to you, in relation to cults you have a tremendous example in relation to the cult with Jim Jones.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Now, this is your… This is your cult that you all have taken certain expressions from, as you said yourself in this conversation in “drinking the Kool-Aid.” That comes from them. And in that, this is an excellent example of the numbers difference, in relation to the thinkers and the (coughs) –one moment — and the surface individuals. Because in that, there were approximately, and this is an approximation, ten people that walked away or got away from the end situation with Jim Jones, that didn't die and didn't drink the Kool-Aid. In that, then there were nine hundred and something people that did drink the Kool-Aid. This gives you a ratio in a manner of speaking. It's a rough ratio, but still it's a good example of the difference in relation to thinkers and surface individuals. The thinkers were the ones that got away and didn’t end up committing suicide.
ANN: I know, which is why, I mean—
ELIAS: Ten to nine hundred.
ANN: Which is why I think I get so frustrated. I mean, because there is a part of me that… that doesn't like that, that doesn't like that these people drink the Kool-Aid, and I get frustrated because I'm like, there is nothing I can do about it.
ELIAS: Correct. But also, I'd say that what is important for someone like yourself to remember is that even though this is something that you wouldn't do and you would be questioning, similar to those ten people that did question and didn't commit suicide, you wouldn't do it. But the nine hundred that did, it's not necessarily that they needed to be saved.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: It's their choice and their value fulfillment.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: And in regard to being surface individuals, they were fulfilling their choice, their direction. And in that, it doesn't make them wrong because they were and because they were involved with this cult. And people want to say well, they were brainwashed and they didn't know what they were doing. No, they weren't brainwashed, and they did know what they were doing. That was their choice and that’s what they chose.
And in that, even the children that you could say were tremendous victims of this cult, I have expressed repeatedly children make their choices also. Even when it is a matter of abuse, even when it is a matter of murder, they’re making their choices also. And their value fulfillment can be expressed in completion when they’re very young, even as infants. That’s their choice. That was their choice of experience.
I understand tremendously that that’s very difficult to accept and that it's very difficult to let that be, in a manner of speaking, because there is such a strong opposition to those types of choices. Especially when you are a thinker and you are moving in a direction that these people are being swayed and their choices are not their own – but they are.
ANN: So—
ELIAS: And each one is only one focus. That's another piece that is important, that they have
hundreds if not thousands of other focuses. Therefore this is one experience.
ANN: Oh my god! So things are just starting to click. So one thing that I told Mary when we were talking to her, and this is starting to make a little sense to me and I think I’m shifting my perspective a little bit or a lot, was the whole experience with my daughter-in-law kind of helped me because I was thinking… When I see people I think who don’t feel good about themselves, who are hurt, I always… there is this underlining thing that I always wanted to help them. I thought, “Oh, I'm here to help them.” And then it just dawned on me, ah! Maybe they're here to help me.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And I realized that, because the thing I have realized that with this experience with my daughter-in-law, I have realized how I have done things that I did not want to do necessarily, and they're not necessarily big things but even little things are… the things that made me feel uncomfortable, because I wanted to see if I could make her happy. I wanted it, if I could see if could make her feel better. And nothing that was working but in doing all that, I realized I wasn't being my genuine self. There was a part of me, there is a part, these things I'm realizing about myself that if you would ask me a year ago, two years ago, “Do you care what people will think about you?” I’d have said no. And I’m like, “Oh my god! I do, do care what people think about me.” I might even be able to say dis it. I don’t know. That’s… a place I’m working, I’m at that little fulcrum point. We’ll see which way it goes. But I was doing things that weren't genuinely me. I'm just realizing that. And I'm like, “Oh my god!”
ELIAS: And sometimes doing things to prove a point.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Or to prove your point.
ANN: Yeah. Oh, my god!
ELIAS: The celery was to prove your point.
ANN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
ELIAS: Which backfired.
ANN: Yeah. (Elias laughs) Or did it? Or did it? It might not have backfired because...
ELIAS: It backfired by the child.
ANN: Huh?
ELIAS: It backfired through the child. The child didn't want it.
ANN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, which is perfect. But it also served a purpose, because I think this whole thing wouldn't have happened, this little explosion. It just… It helped me realize what I was doing faster. So…
ELIAS: Which is excellent.
ANN: Wow.
ELIAS: And another example of things are not always what they seem to be.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: That on the surface that seemed to be something bad, but in actuality it was very helpful to you.
ANN: Yeah. And on the surface of things not being what they seem, like this whole good/bad thing, I mean, I kind of get it, how, everything is playing its part.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Oh my god!
ELIAS: Congratulations.
ANN: Yeah and I'm also getting—
ELIAS: That is significant.
ANN: Yes. (Elias chuckles) I mean, it's huge. It's huge.
ELIAS: Yes, I would agree.
ANN: But I'm getting also how… I mean I'm realizing now how I have not been being genuine to myself.
I’m realizing that old expression, you’re trying to get the person in the mirror to smile. You know that one? We’ve heard it. And you’d like to hit the mirror. You can talk to the mirror. You can say, “Come on, smile! Smile! Smile!” They’re not smiling. I was like, “Well, oh my god! I’ve been focusing on the wrong thing all along.” (Laughs) It’s like, you know, you want the mirror to smile, you just fucking smile. (Elias chuckles)
But I've also realized and I'm wondering and wanting to know, this genuine self and what I want. Like I'm being more aware of times I did things for other people versus for myself. I did other things for other people to quote-unquote “be a good person.” I did things for other people, oh because I didn't want them to be sad. I did things for other people maybe for selfish reasons, because I’m like, “Oh, if I don't help them, if I need help they won't help me.” Or if I did things, you know, for whatever reasons that I'm doing… I am seeing now where I did things for reasons that weren't necessarily benefiting me, and…
ELIAS: That is tremendous.
ANN: And also, you know, it really is back to trusting myself and my listening to my guideline. And I realize sometimes when there's so much noise, noise, noise, this is probably why meditation is so helpful, because when there's so much noise, noise, noise, you can't necessarily hear yourself.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: And I could see, once when I said giving money to a homeless person and you said if I didn't feel good about it, I probably wasn't helping anybody. I get that. And then I remember once giving money to this woman who was standing on the street corner and it was a magical moment, and I bet I really helped at that moment.
ELIAS: Likely so.
ANN: And it's… It's… It's… It's coming from me. And also not to, it's not really your actions that you do. I mean, it is your actions, but it's… but what's behind your… the intention and how you feel about what you're doing is more important than actually what you're doing.
ELIAS: I would say because that is what creates the energy of what you're doing
ANN: Yeah. Yeah. And then it’s trusting myself enough to be, to knowing that whatever it is that I want to do… It doesn't matter how it looks to the outside.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: Yeah. Wow.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) I'd say again, congratulations. This is a lot of realizations that are very valid.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah, it feels good. It feels clearing. (Elias laughs) It feels like a very clear space.
ELIAS: Good.
ANN: Very neutral, to start creating from a whole different state of being. Hm.
ELIAS: That's excellent, my friend.
ANN: Wow. The thing that really is just kind of sinking in for me, and it's like what you said about the Jonestown people just reaffirms it, and I almost – the reason I say change my perspective instead of like, like getting angry or frustrated or mad or thinking, you know, at them, I almost feel a gratitude towards them. And a gratitude, like even like my daughter-in-law who had been so aggravating. Of course, I've had space from her, so it's easier to see clearer when it's not in your face.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: But I have gratitude towards her, from the respect that it helped bring clarity, this clarity to me.
ELIAS: I agree.
ANN: And sometimes I think people do these roles that we don't think, that we wouldn't necessarily want in this focus. I love it, that you're just, it's just that one focus. And if we're all, everything, everybody anyway at a certain point, that is me doing that so I can learn.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: So I can grow and I can expand.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: So instead of looking at them from a disempowerment point of view, I'm looking at them as like an empowering, appreciative point of view. Wow!
ELIAS: Precisely. And THAT is a very important lesson, my friend, to be able to look at situations and other people and their choices and to learn from it. Because that’s actually what is so important and so empowering, is to be able to learn from everything you present to yourself.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: And to know that everything has some element of something that you can learn from, and that's the reason that you're presenting it to yourself.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Therefore, asking the question when you are in a situation that you are frustrated or angry or annoyed with a situation and an expression, “What can I learn from this now?”
ANN: Mm-hm. You know I think have lately, I have been learning a lot. I feel like stuff is coming in in droves and one thing that I appreciate about all this, and obviously you go through things that you don’t like, you don’t like to be triggered, you don’t like to be uncomfortable, you don’t like to be angry, blah-blah-blah, but when I stop and like you say, “And what can I learn from this?” and pay attention to what I can learn from this. And although it’s been a process, it wasn’t like, “Oh, what can…” when I was in the heat of the moment with my daughter-in-law. It wasn’t like, “Oh, what can I learn from this?” At least the way I do things, it just kind of comes in folds or comes in different times and kind of sinks in.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: I mean sometimes there’s epiphanies, but sometimes I think the epiphany comes after many little seeps.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Many little seeps of, yeah, and then boom! Okay. But what I’ve been noticing about myself right now is I am able to be at a much more neutral place. Even when I saw this whole, this whole thing, like I was telling Mary about – so many people don't know about this, this fraud that's been going on in Minnesota, these Somalians and Americans. I'm 100% sure, a little joint effort, this fraud scheme that has been going on. And I think at one point in time, it might have made me mad and indignant. It doesn't even make me mad or indignant. It makes me a little curious about, or a little baffled about the extent, the widespread-ness of this and how many people are involved on this and that it's still going on. It's like, “How can this still be going on?” but it’s almost more from a curious standpoint. I mean there is a little bit of judgment in there, but it’s just this curious standpoint. I mean, I just… It doesn’t really… It doesn’t have a charge, as at one point in time it would have.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And, I mean it's not to say that… I get a little delight that these things are getting exposed. (Laughs) I do take a little bit of a delight in that (Elias laughs) but it doesn't… But then there's another part of me. I can think about it in more than one way, not just right or wrong. Like I'll think about okay, you know they said more as being fraud and not millions, but billions and billions. More fraud, like taxpayers paid more in fraud. And then they were saying this money goes over to, is going overseas or whatever, but there's been more than the whole Somali GDP. We gave more money and fraud than that whole country made themselves. And I might think, you know, you might think, “Oh that's not the right… That's not right. That's not the right way to do it,” but I'm also thinking, well, that's just the way they're doing it. (Elias chuckles) Part of me, part of me thinks, “Well, good for them. You got creative. You found a little niche, and you did it. And you got that money.” I mean, I still, if I were laying down, writing the laws, I would say, now let's not let this happen. But it just, I guess the trigger isn't there because I’m like… can think about it more than the way of right or wrong. You know, I can think about it and it’s just thinking, it’s just looking at everything and… Oh! So this point of neutrality, I guess, that I’m getting at is helping me see more sides to everything and not… It’s just (sighs)… Elias. (Both laugh) Oh, my god, oh my god, oh my god! (Elias chuckles) Oh my god.
ELIAS: And now you see all of this interconnectedness. Interconnectedness isn't just with people to people. It's with everything, everything. Everything IS interconnected: people, money, things, actions, attitudes, choices, directions. Everything in your reality is connected.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: And you begin to see that interconnectedness when you think about what is happening in
your reality and you can see how you can follow the interconnectedness of everything on and on and on from any given point.
ANN: Hm. Hm. That part's still a little… It's not as clear as maybe I'd want it to be, but I'm not even worried about that because I, I'm thinking one day I'm going to be very clear on that.
ELIAS: I would say so. (Chuckles)
ANN: Because it's amazing how this stuff is just coming in. I like it.
ELIAS: And that would also be what I've expressed time and time again about what you pay attention to you create more of.
ANN: Yeah. Which is hilarious.
ELIAS: Therefore paying attention to giving yourself more and more information, you give yourself more information and you become more aware.
ANN: Yeah. Hm. (Both laugh) Oh god, Elias.
ELIAS: Well done.
ANN: So I get excited. You know what I'm excited about right now?
ELIAS: What?
ANN: I am so excited about living life or creating life or doing whatever from this, this neutral stance or more and more of a neutral stance.
ELIAS: I’d say that's tremendous and excellent, my friend.
ANN: Wow! It's kind of different. I do know, I have noticed different things that I feel. I'm stopping to do certain things. Intentionally I'll say, “Okay.” It’s funny because you say or whatever, John and I are bridgers or a bridger or whatever. And I remember at the last group session I intentionally thought, sometimes I think, when I want to be nice to people or bring them in the fold – and it's not to say I don't want to do that, there are things I do, I actually enjoy connecting with people – but I have realized a lot of time when I’m doing that, I’m not actually connecting with them. Well that, I just had the realization right in this very moment!
ELIAS: How so?
ANN: Because when I… When I want to do something to be a good person I… or if I see people who are maybe not… or I don't know, this is very tricky. This is a hard thing to untangle because I feel like
part of this is my genuine self and part of it is not, and maybe untangling this… Um. All right, so when I feel like part of my genuine self is wanting connection, connecting with people. I do like that. I enjoy that. And then… But sometimes… Oh! Maybe sometimes when I want to help somebody out, maybe I’m helping them out from a disempowering point of view, thinking they aren’t a full person in themselves or they aren’t a hundred percent powerful and capable, just like the Jonestown people. Thinking, like thinking I’d have to save them or something. So I’m connecting with them from, when I’m connecting from, with them from that standpoint, that’s not what… I don’t, I don’t want to do that. So it’s connecting—
ELIAS: Now, THAT is a good example of not actually connecting
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Even when you think you are, because you’re not actually because you're standing in judgment—
ANN: My god! Yes.
ELIAS: — of the other individual's choices.
ANN: Oh my god, Elias. Oh my god.
ELIAS: Because if they were making good and empowered choices, they would be doing what you would do.
ANN: Yeah. So I think back at the… And I’m just thinking about this because it stuck out to me, back at the group session, I felt myself withdraw within for a bit and maybe go into more observer mode. And I think… And something didn’t quite feel right about that. I didn’t feel natural, but I was okay with that because I just felt like it… It’s kind of like a steamship going ahead, full speed ahead, but then I wanted to stop and you know before you go in a different direction, there’s that lull point and it doesn’t look like much is happening and you’re trying… and it’s like you’re trying to swing it around. So I was… It didn’t feel quite right, but it was okay because I was like, “I’m just starting to, I want to do something different now and it feels unfamiliar.” That’s what it was like. Everything was unfamiliar and I didn't quite know how I wanted to be in these situations. Oh my god! Oh my god! So… oh my god! (Elias chuckles) Oh, so I think the thing was… Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god! Oh my god! (Laughs) Fuck. Oh fuck. (Laughs) Oh my god.
ELIAS: And what is your final analysis?
ANN: So much. I feel like I have just assimilated so much it's hard to put it all into words, but has, I mean, it has to do with everything in this whole big ball having to do… Like trusting myself, trusting the other person. Oh my god. I don’t even… I don’t know. I’m not sure if I can put it into words right now. Oh my god! (Elias chuckles) Oh, Elias. Oh god! I just know I want to remember this. I don't want to forget this.
ELIAS: This is a genuine revelation.
ANN: This… Ah! This is freedom, Elias.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Wow! (Laughs) Oh my god! (Elias chuckles) Oh, tell me I’ll remember this. Oh my god! (Elias chuckles)
ELIAS: You'll remember it if you keep reminding yourself of it.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Otherwise, you'll forget. (Both laugh)
ANN: Oh, but then I have this little friend I know that will remind me.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: If I do forget.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: I don't think I will forget though. I mean I feel like… I mean obviously I'll forget in spurts, but I feel like I've got enough footing of it now. I feel like I've got enough purchase now—
ELIAS: Good.
ANN: — that I can move forward. Whoa! Hmm.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) It is wondrous to be a part of the moments of recognition and realization in which that brightness sparks.
ANN: Mm-hm. And that desire, that desire is so beautiful. It feels so good.
ELIAS: I agree.
ANN: Ah. Like I feel like I've been… I mean back to that mirror analogy. (Laughs) I feel like I've been, not all the time but often, approaching things backwards, ass backwards. And which is the hard way. (Laughs) You know me, like an easy, “I'd rather do it this way.” (Elias chuckles) God! Oh, Elias, Elias, Elias.
ELIAS: But it doesn't matter because then you have these types of moments, which are tremendous.
ANN: Yeah. And I do want to… And the only thing I really have, want to focus on right now is like I was telling Mary or whatever, it's getting to know my genuine self. And I do love those moments of connecting with other people. I love those moments. It feels so satisfying and so empowering and so…
I mean just… So that is good. I love that.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And I love the moments of connection. And I… It's as simple as saying that's what I want to bring more into my life, of genuine connection. I think I've been trying to connect in back-ass-ward ways. So the genuine part of myself is I do love to be a connector. The way that was disempowering is trying to connect by getting the other person to change, or not accepting the—
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: — not accepting the other person for their stage. And I don't need to connect with everybody.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: There's some people that I just don't need to connect with and that's okay.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: So my thing is just wanting to create a life where I rendezvous with the people, the like-minded people that I want to connect with, that feel good to connect with.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: It's just that. It's just that. And it doesn't make me a bad person not to want to connect with some people. That's quite all right.
ELIAS: You're correct. And I'd say that when you are in places such as California visiting John's family
and you feel that odd off-ness that you felt, simply smile at people.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: And that is how you can connect with them, even if they're disconnected.
ANN: Yeah. And I feel times aware I have done that. Like sometimes I'm shocked when people come up with me or I feel like see something in me, and I think it is that. I mean, one example would be just when you smile at them or you see them or you just acknowledge them without trying to change them.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: Woo!
ELIAS: And you don't even have to speak.
ANN: Yeah. Oh, I know. I know! Like sometimes I can tell. I was at this, in this neighborhood that we're going to, we're having our house built in, someone had a holiday party. I said, “Let's go and let's get to meet some of… These people are going to be our neighbors.” And I noticed, like every once in a while I'll notice. I noticed this in particular, just this one woman kind of looking at me and she kept looking at me and she kept looking at me. And I could feel… We didn't even really talk that much. We talked a little bit, but I could just feel she was connecting with something in me. I could feel it. And I don't… I could do something with it. I don't have to do anything with it. It's just…It just is what it is.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: And it's just… Really, it's just to enjoy the connection.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Oh my god, Elias. And there really… You know what? There is nothing to do. (Both laugh) There's nothing to do. There is nothing to do. But what I… But I… Well why, if there is nothing to do, why wouldn't I just do what makes me feel good and what inspires me? I mean, I'm living this life. Why not just—
ELIAS: That's the point.
ANN: I know. That’s the fucking point. (Both laugh)
ELIAS: To do what makes you happy.
ANN: Oh my god. (Laughs) And I kind of love, love you saying when people… I used to be a little annoyed when you’d say people can’t hear things if they’re ready, unless they’re ready to hear it. I was like, “Well, you could…” But now I’m like, “Oh no, that’s actually a blessing too. That’s a blessing too!” It’s a blessing for me because I don’t need to tell people things, because they’ll attract the information when they’re ready to attract the information.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: Oh my god! That’s like a way… Yeah! Ah. And also you let go of other people needing to understand you. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if they understand me. It just matters if I understand me.
ELIAS: That’s quite correct.
ANN: (Chuckles) Well Elias, this is all delightful, (singing) delightful.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I agree. (Chuckles)
ANN: So when I start to have these awarenesses and start to live like this, oh, I can just create something all new. It's not like… Well my question was going to be, do I need to go back into these other things? Like have a focus as a surface person or that isn't aware of these things, which I know it's kind of a judgment, but it's not really. It's just like it's a choice. It's a choice. Do I want to choose it or not? I'm thinking I wouldn't want to choose to do that, but it's still an experience and it's still me helping me.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And… And… Oh, but what I was thinking? Because all of a sudden I was thinking, oh my god,
do I have to like go back into this? Go, you know, just a lack of a better word, just to use symbol, pictures because it's just easier to explain my point. I know there's no karma times whatever. No, but just to say okay, you go out of this life and you go back to a new life and you're born, and do I have to relearn all this? But I just had the realization. I know not necessarily. I can just create something all new too.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: I can go from here. I can—
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: — do like whatever I want to do. I can go back there. I can go do more stuff. That’s the… That’s actually the whole excitement part, is oh my god! What can I create from here? And that’s where the neutral, that’s where the neutral is so valuable.
ELIAS: I agree.
ANN: Oh my god! (Elias laughs) Fucking A Elias. (Elias chuckles) Hm! How about them apples?
ELIAS: (Chuckles) I agree. How about them apples? (Laughs)
ANN: OMG. I’m not even sure… Huh! Well there you go. Huh! (Laughs) I'm not sure if I really have any questions at this point. (Elias chuckles) But I'm sure there will be in the future, because I actually do love questions.
ELIAS: I have no doubt. (Chuckles)
ANN: Questions are a part of the fun of it.
ELIAS: I agree. And your alarm is sounding.
ANN: Oh, I'm glad you told me that. All right. Well, I guess it's been good timing. Elias, oh my god, thank you.
ELIAS: You are so very welcome. And I am tremendously encouraging and supportive of you. I will say to you, my dear friend, thank you for allowing myself to share in your expression of realizations.
ANN: And thank you for being patient with me (Elias laughs) along my journey. Journeys, I will say, journeys that will never end. And I know that now.
ELIAS: You are exceptionally welcome. Until our next meeting, my dear friend, in wondrous love and in genuine precious friendship as always, au revoir.
ANN: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour 5 minutes)
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