Surface People and Thinkers
Topics:
“Surface People and Thinkers”
“The Energy of Dominance”
“Display of a Huge Step in the Awareness of Interconnectedness”
Tuesday, October 7, 2025 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jean (Lyla)
“The factor that humans use animals for sport is another piece of that expression that I have explained previously in why extraterrestrials don't visit you yet -- because you're not evolved enough yet, you're still not expressing that awareness of that interconnectedness. Not that you can't incorporate animals for food. Sport is an entirely different subject. THAT is a subject of equal importance, let us say, and value as war. It's equally unself-aware as war.”
[Audio begins partway through session]
JEAN: Surface people versus thinkers: what is the perception of a thinker and what is the perception of surface people? Just like, along the same lines, you told me once with an aristocratic personality they perceive life through an artistic lens. How would you say the perception of a thinker versus a surface, if you can do a general? And let me get it, because the reason I want to ask is you said something in that last session that changed everything, about how I was trying to be a surface person in my… all my life, and I'm a thinker, and how that made things so difficult. And I wanted to know if you could kind of repeat that again, since I lost it all on tape. And I was thinking, well, if I can understand perception, I can understand deeper.
ELIAS: A surface individual is concerned with surface things, meaning that their attention generally is projected in the direction of what's happening in their day, what's happening around them. That they are generally the center of everything, but whatever is required in the day, whatever they should be doing, they interact with other individuals in relation to whatever is happening in their life, and they share in that capacity. They generally don't move in a direction of philosophical thinking.
Let me give you an example that's relevant to now. A surface individual with cats will be thinking about what their cats are doing now, and how they're interacting with themself, and what behaviors their cats have – also in relation to themself, not necessarily in relation to each other. Sometimes, but mostly in relation to themself.
A thinker will be looking at their cats and looking at their behaviors and questioning what those behaviors mean, and what else is that reflecting to them, and what can they see in relation to those behaviors and their own behaviors, and whether that is influenced by some previous experience that they have, or somewhere where they used to live, and how that is affecting of them personally presently, what that might change in their own behaviors. They're going to be thinking about a lot more than a surface individual.
If a certain individual that is a surface person has a cat that dies or that has to be euthanized, they will be not thinking as much, but feeling. They'll feel sad. They might feel bad about it. And generally, they will naturally let those feelings go after a period of time. Generally speaking, it averages to about two to three weeks.
A thinker that has a cat that dies or has to be euthanized is going to be thinking about how that happened, what does that mean, what does it impact moving forward, how is it connected with past experiences, how does that cat reflect other people in that individual's life. And then they'll move in a direction of did they do something wrong, did, could they have done something different to prevent that from happening. If it has to do with euthanasia, they'll likely feel guilty about it and again, did they do the right thing? If it didn't have to do with euthanasia, they'll ask what they could have done to help the cat or to make the cat more comfortable. And generally speaking, the thinker will also have considerable feelings about the situation and generally will hold on to those feelings anywhere between a year and perhaps even five years, and keep occasionally, not every day, but keep questioning themself if they did the right thing, if they were in the right position with the animal. It can go on for quite some time. That's a difference simply in one scenario.
Now, I would say that the difference between a thinker and a surface individual is that thinkers are precisely that. It doesn't mean that surface people don't think, but thinkers delve into the whats, the whys, the wheres, the hows, all of those questions, and they keep asking questions to decipher and to figure out. I would say, even in that scenario that we used, a thinker is likely going to also move in directions of thinking about where did the cat go.
JEAN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Where is it now? Where is it in relation to me? Where is it in consciousness? What is it doing? Where is its energy? Is its energy still with me? And how is that affecting me? A thinker will move in philosophical directions and esoteric directions. A surface individual likely won't. They might slightly, but that's too much energy and it's too much that distracts them from what they're doing right now and what they're naturally engaging.
Now, I will also say, and this piece I will qualify and express that it's not an absolute but a generalization, generally when things happen in a surface individual's life with other individuals that they don't like – not that they don't like the individuals, but they don't like the action that is occurring – their first direction is to point the finger at the other individual.
That's not to say that thinkers don't do that also, but thinkers have a tendency to turn it around on themselves and blame themselves instead of blaming the other individual. They may blame the other individual also, but they're much more in the direction of blaming themselves and then moving in the direction of all manners of questions in themselves, about themselves, about the situation and what they did and what they could do differently, and replaying the scenario over and over to figure out what their part is and what they did. Even if they didn't do anything, they're still going to turn it on themself.
Thinkers also have a tendency to weaponize towards themselves. Surface individuals have a tendency to move the opposite direction and weaponize against the other individual, holding the other individual responsible for their feelings. Thinkers have a tendency to take on responsibility for the other individual's feelings. Therefore, in many capacities, they're almost opposites.
And in that, whatever you can identify in yourself about your behaviors, what you automatically do in evaluating, in analyzing, in figuring out, the surface people generally don't do that. They generally won't move in those directions. It's too much work, it's too much energy, and they generally don't care.
Now, as I said, this is a very broad generalization and that doesn't mean that surface people aren't caring people. They are. It doesn't mean that they're not compassionate. They are. Actually, in some capacities they can be more caring and more compassionate than a thinker, because a thinker is too busy analyzing everything and analyzing their own feelings and in doing so, they're caught up in all of that evaluation and that analyzing and that figuring out, to be actually engaging in a compassionate capacity.
Now, that doesn't mean that a thinker can't get to that point. They definitely can, and they definitely can learn to turn all that analyzing and evaluating in a direction that is more beneficial by almost, in a manner of speaking, compartmentalizing that there's a time and place to be analyzing and evaluating and figuring out, and that there's also a time and place to put that away and to be present with themselves and with other individuals. But that's something that thinkers generally have to learn.
JEAN: Is that what you meant when you said previously that thinkers will tend to move in a certain direction up until a point in their life and then then do something completely different? Does it have to do with understanding they need to kind of compartmentalize it, or does that have to do with something else?
ELIAS: Nope. That I would say is accurate. Yes.
JEAN: You said they lead difficult lives up to a point.
ELIAS: And they learn.
JEAN: And they learn.
ELIAS: They learn from their experiences. And that can lead them in directions of turning and changing, and moving in directions that are more genuine to themself and more beneficial to themself.
JEAN: Is this also the reason you said that generally speaking, most suicides are thinkers? It's because they aren't able to get to the point where they can make that compartmentalization to their benefit?
ELIAS: Correct. Correct.
JEAN: And then you were saying in that last session about how I chose surface professions. Can you go into that a little bit more? Because that, I know there's… That was like an “Aha!” moment. And are we influenced? Are we thinkers influenced to go in surface positions because – directions, because it's just like the common orientation in the schooling system?
ELIAS: It’s safe.
JEAN: It’s safe. And are we encouraged? As my mother encouraged all of us to go into a safe job, a safe this, a safe that? So can you…?
ELIAS: Yes. I'd say that… Remember: the vast majority of individuals are surface individuals. Therefore your world functions with surface individuals. Your societies function in relation to surface individuals. Therefore people, humans always want to fit in. They always want to be the same. Why? Because most of the people are surface people, and therefore they are the same to a degree. And in that, the things that are important to them should be important to everyone.
They're not always important to thinkers. But then, there are some pieces that are genuinely attractive to thinkers, depending on their guidelines and their core beliefs. They express them differently because they analyze them more but as I expressed, people in general want to be included. They want to be the same because that allows them to be included. And that is very natural, because you are social beings and therefore you want to be in your clan. You want to have a clan and be accepted in that. That can be difficult for thinkers, because that means fitting into the surface people's clans. And in that, as you are growing up and you are engaging school years that becomes, for thinkers, painfully obvious. That this is the manner in which the social interaction happens, and this is the manner in which you are accepted or not. Therefore you might move in a direction of pretending to not be too smart, creating the façade that you're interested in all the things that the other children are interested in.
There's a lot that goes along with fitting in. And in that, you keep learning more and more about how to fit in, in a surface world. And unless you are an individual that stands out, that doesn't concern themself with everyone else, and stands out in relation to being exceptionally smart or exceptionally gifted in one capacity or another and build on that and keep building on that, then you have to move in a direction of continuing to function in a surface world.
That doesn't mean you can't be genuine and you can't be yourself, but it does mean that you do move in directions of taking certain parts of you and making them more important because they fit in. Appearance. Image is not appearance, but you can take that guideline or core belief of having that as being very important to you, and you can turn it, rather than image, into appearance. And appearance is something that fits in with surface people easily. Therefore, you can take something that is important to you, that is a genuine expression of you, and you can turn it in a manner that will allow you to fit in.
JEAN: And I did that to certain…
ELIAS: Definitely.
JEAN: Okay.
ELIAS: Definitely. I would say an example in relation to your adult traumas. Surface individuals can easily move in directions of constantly breeding a mare to produce foals and not concern themselves with what that's doing to that horse. A thinker would have problems with that, but a thinker that's moving in a surface direction won't think about it. They'll push that away and move in the same direction as the surface individuals. It doesn't matter. Don't think about that horse. Think about what it produces. Think about what you can gain from it. Later, you think about it and then you feel guilty and then you turn it on yourself. You turn the responsibility, and then you create the guilt or the shame.
Generally speaking, a surface individual isn't going to think about that. That animal is a tool. It's something that is to be used for a gain in an end. And there are lots of animals that are in that position, whether it be for financial gain or whether it be for food – which also is financial gain – but one may be for sport, and one may be for food.
But the factor that humans use animals for sport is another piece of that expression that I have explained previously in why extraterrestrials don't visit you yet – because you're not evolved enough yet, you're still not expressing that awareness of that interconnectedness. Not that you can't incorporate animals for food. Sport is an entirely different subject. THAT is a subject of equal importance, let us say, and value as war. It's equally unself-aware as war.
JEAN: To engage animals in sport?
ELIAS: Yes. For sport, yes. It's the same thing. It's the same energy. That you are engaging an action for dominance, to win and to sacrifice what you are winning against, even to death. And this is something that is exceedingly important about becoming self-aware. (To Jean) Not to do what you're doing. Stop it!
JEAN: No. I'm fascinated.
ELIAS: I know, but don't internalize that.
JEAN: No, no, no, I'm…
ELIAS: Good.
JEAN: I understand. I understand.
ELIAS: Good. And don't take it with you and personalize.
JEAN: I'm not.
ELIAS: Good.
JEAN: I'm at the point now I'm ready—
ELIAS: Excellent.
JEAN: — to hear all this.
ELIAS: Excellent, excellent.
JEAN: And it’s more like aha moments. I understand now, “Oh, I get it.”
ELIAS: Good.
JEAN: That's the direction I'm going in.
ELIAS: Good. Good. Excellent, because it serves no purpose to move in directions of guilt. That is—
JEAN: No, no. I'm—
ELIAS: Good.
JEAN: Yeah. No.
ELIAS: Yes, I would say that (pause) I understand the directions that humans move in in relation to food in your present time framework, but that also there is a significant portion of that that is equal to the sport and to war because there is overproduction. It's not necessary. It's not a case of you producing animals for food in a measure of necessity, it's excess. But this all comes down to the same energy of dominance, and of the lack of awareness of interpersonal and inter-everything, in relation to being interconnected.
That everything is a part of you and that when you generate certain actions outside of you, you're doing it to yourself. Because it's a part of you, it takes a piece of you away. And that is very significant in relation to self-awareness. It's not that you can't rebuild that. You can. Just as you can regenerate with your body, you can rebuild in relation to the pieces that you take away from yourself, in association with whatever you sacrifice.
It's almost what people would think of as taking away a piece of your soul, but that is the perception of having a soul. Which I will also clarify and express (chuckles) that what you term to be a soul, or what many, many, many people term to be a soul is you, is your self. Therefore, I'm not expressing that you don't have a soul. It's simply another word for self. And in that, there are many things that humans do that take pieces away from that self or that soul. That then you have to either rebuild it and reestablish it or you don't, and you keep taking pieces away. Which what that does is make you more and more insensitive to that interconnection.
I would say that thinkers have a tendency to be motivated to rebuild that aspect of themselves, that soul part of them, or they break. Surface people don't break as easily. They're thicker. I don't mean that in a disparaging manner. They're tougher. They don't crack as easily, except when they're young. When they're young, they can crack as easily as a thinker but once they develop and they become adults, it's more difficult to crack them. That doesn't mean that they don't have issues. That doesn't mean that they don't have influences of trauma. They do. They deal with it differently.
But fortunately all of you, whether you're willingly moving or you're kicking and screaming, are shifting. And in that, that is making a tremendous difference. And those of you that are thinkers, in shifting, each step you take in shifting, each step you take in becoming more self-aware, you're rippling that out to all these surface individuals. In a manner of speaking, you are doing the work for them. but that's natural. And in that, you're helping them also in addition to yourself in becoming more self-aware, to be more aware of interconnectedness. And therefore whatever guilt they may have in relation to issues or traumas, it becomes easier for them to move through that, to settle that within themselves.
And in that, that is a tremendous contribution from the thinkers in your world. Because you become the examples and eventually, in your self-awareness, you become settled and comfortable and content with yourselves. And that is something that is noticed as if you are a star, as if you have the brightness of a star, and all the people around you want that and want to experience that. And they can. And in that, they look to those of you that are expressing as a star as that example to follow, and to gain that brightness in themselves. It's simply easier for them than it is for you (chuckles), but it's significant.
And I would say that THIS is a display of a huge movement in acceptance and in letting that brilliance shine a little brighter and a little brighter and a little brighter. And in that, each step that – or leap – that you express in this manner turns the brightness up on your star. I would say to you, my friend, when we began these conversations, this never happened.
JEAN: And when you're talking, just in case, I'd like to share this. Are you okay with me sharing this?
ELIAS: Absolutely.
JEAN: You're referring to my interactions with the dogs now?
ELIAS: Yes.
JEAN: Before, I was just pushing away.
ELIAS: And they were busy and unsettled. And then you moved in the direction of closing the door to have them be more settled, but not entirely. And this one –
JEAN: Mimi.
ELIAS: —was never settled.
JEAN: Exactly.
ELIAS: And was still busy and unsettled, even in our previous conversations.
JEAN: Yes.
ELIAS: And now look at her,
JEAN: And that's just the change that's occurred since the work in our last session?
ELIAS: Absolutely. A huge step. And that one, to be sleeping on top of you, is also a huge step, a huge difference in your energy and your interconnectedness. That was a huge display also with a distraction, and isn't running around.
JEAN: Like right now. There was this distraction and she didn't even get up. Because I wasn't adding to that energy.
ELIAS: Correct.
JEAN: Oh my god, Elias!
ELIAS: That is a display of a huge step in that awareness of interconnectedness. And you don't have to be thinking about it at all. It's coming out in energy, calm and relaxed. Congratulations!
JEAN: Thank you.
ELIAS: That's enormous, that you can see the evidence in front of you.
JEAN: Elias, I would say let's just end this here. It's a great ending point. And we'll be back.
ELIAS: Very well.
JEAN: Thank you.
ELIAS: One moment.
(Audio ends after 45 minutes)
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