Moving to a Different Reality: Part 13
Topics:
“Shutting Down the Energy Centers”
“Assimilating the Objective and Subjective Awarenesses Together as One”
“Elias’ Perspective from Regional Area 5”
“Definition of Attention”
“Disagreeing with the Direction of a Probable Self”
Thursday, September 18, 2025 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Nuno (Lystell)
ELIAS: Good morning!
NUNO: Hello, my friend.
ELIAS: Hello, my friend. How shall we begin?
NUNO: We will begin like this. You suggested that I try shutting down the energy centers last time.
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: And I’ve been practicing that. Have you been observing me in that, by any chance?
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: Ah, okay. So what’s your assessment?
ELIAS: I’d say you’re doing well thus far. I’d say also that there’s a bit of (pause)… how shall I say? There’s a bit of confusion in – at times – in how to move further, let us say. That you get to a certain point and then there’s a stop point. What is your assessment?
NUNO: My assessment is that when I do that, I do feel certain changes in the body, not very prominent, but I’m able to sense some things. Mostly actually, I feel the effect afterwards because I do feel somewhat drained of energy afterwards.
ELIAS: That’s the point. Yes.
NUNO: But when I’m doing the exercise, I don’t feel it so much because I think I’m simply more relax. My assessment is that first of all, I don’t think this is cumulative. In other words, I can do the exercise and reduce the… however you want to put it, the functioning of the energy centers, and I achieve some effect in that but it’s not permanent. It quickly restores itself it seems.
ELIAS: Yes, I would agree.
NUNO: Okay. So for this to be effective requires me to be quite persistent with it for a period of time?
ELIAS: Yes. And to keep increasing the amount that you reduce. In that, the more you do that the more you are shutting down those energy centers. And I would say that of course the energy centers are being maintained subjectively; therefore, eventually your subjective awareness stops regenerating.
NUNO: A couple of questions in that. So to begin you’re suggesting then, if I understand you correctly, that what I should do is continue with this exercise and the more I continue with it the deeper I will be able to go in it?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
NUNO: Why is it that the subjective awareness doesn’t just shut it down? I am expressing an intention to do that. Is it a matter that I am not properly in harmony with the subjective awareness on this?
ELIAS: (Pause) I’d say that it’s a matter of assessment, and the assessment being: What is it in your life that (pause) prompts you or that is maintaining an aspect of health? What is so strong that that has been so important in your life? And what drives that?
NUNO: Well, that’s interesting that you bring that up, because I have thought about this. I mean, health has been a very important subject for most of my life and I can see that I have always tried to move in a direction of maintaining health. It has been a very important subject.
ELIAS: I know it has. But—
NUNO: So I was—
ELIAS: — what I’m saying… Yes. Go on.
NUNO: So what I was thinking is that because of that, this is actually part of the difficulty I’m having, is because of my strong wanting to maintain health that I’ve had for so long—
ELIAS: An attachment to it. Yes. I agree, but I would say in that it’s a matter of going further with that subject. Not just looking at yes, that has been something that has been very important throughout your life to maintain health, but what has driven that throughout your life? What drives that?
NUNO: I don’t know. Why don’t you tell me?
ELIAS: That’s the point, for you to be discovering that. Because you have to unlock it.
NUNO: Oh, okay.
ELIAS: I don’t expect that you can answer that question now. I’m simply expressing to you that it’s a question that is important in relation to learning how to not maintain that health on a daily basis, to not be making that so important.
NUNO: Well, I have been doing that.
ELIAS: And how have you been doing that?
NUNO: Mm… Like for example, generally I don’t feel all that great in the morning. After I’ve had my sessions with Julius at night, I feel actually pretty awful but it doesn’t bother me at all. I just say, “Oh, this is great. This is actually a positive indication that progress is being made,” and I just shrug it off. It doesn’t bother me. I also notice that my stamina is way down. I’m not able to do a lot of the physical activities I used to do with the same vigor because of what I’ve been doing and things like that, and I just shrug that off. It doesn’t bother me. I am still a little bit fussy about things that I consider to be not related to my direction. Like for example, if I injure myself, I cut my finger or something like that, I don’t like that and I do whatever I can to heal it. Apart from that, the focus of my attention has been more on initially my heart, but now also with the energy centers. Do you understand what I’m saying?
ELIAS: Yes, I do. (Pause) I’d say that part of this is not about thinking that feeling bad is good. I understand why you’re doing that and acknowledging that in yourself, but I would say that it’s a matter of more looking at all of it as being natural and acknowledging that at times you don’t feel good and you don’t necessarily like it, but including that with things such as injuries because injuries are also part of not maintaining that factor of health. You’re creating some type of manifestation with the body that is unnatural. Do you understand?
NUNO: You’re referring to which manifestation? The big one or the little one?
ELIAS: Any type of injury. Any type of injury. (Pause) That that can be viewed in the same manner as something such as a cold or a flu, that it’s also a health manifestation because it’s something that is being generated by the body that is unnatural. And what I would say to you is to be cautious about that. I understand you don’t do it very often, but I’m expressing to you to be cautious about it now because you might begin doing it in relation to another manner of not feeling good. Do you understand? If you’re expressing—
NUNO: I’m a little bit confused. Not doing what?
ELIAS: Injuries.
NUNO: Oh, injuries.
ELIAS: Yes. That’s what I’m speaking about. And in that, that you might begin injuring yourself and looking at that as being accidental, but in that, you could be doing that because you’re looking at feeling not good as being a good thing. Do you understand?
NUNO: I understand.
ELIAS: Therefore the more you don’t feel good, the more you think that’s a good thing. Therefore you might start creating injuries to feel uncomfortable and that that can be seen as something good, which it’s not.
NUNO: Okay, I understand. So—
ELIAS: Good.
NUNO: What do I do to turn this around?
ELIAS: I’d say that’s actually somewhat simple, because it’s simply a matter of looking at what you’re feeling in a natural manner. For you, feeling bad is feeling bad. You don’t like it. Don’t fight with it, but acknowledge it for what it is also.
NUNO: Okay. Okay. I understand that.
ELIAS: Excellent.
NUNO: Thank you for that information.
ELIAS: You are very welcome.
NUNO: Do you have anything else to say on this?
ELIAS: I would say that’s enough.
NUNO: Okay. Then I also had this crazy idea (Elias laughs), which I have every now and then, that I would kind of skip over all the preliminary things and just go to the main event.
ELIAS: Ah!
NUNO: Meaning that I would attempt to assimilate the objective awareness into the subjective awareness. And I thought this is really crazy, because there’s no way this is going to happen. But I tried it anyway.
ELIAS: What do you mean by that?
NUNO: That it’s crazy?
ELIAS: No. (Laughs)
NUNO: By what? The assimilation?
ELIAS: (Laughs) Yes.
NUNO: Well I mean as we have discussed, I think last time we spoke, was that that’s the final step. After I disengage from physical reality, the objective awareness is assimilated into the subjective awareness.
ELIAS: Not into, but together as one. Do you understand?
NUNO: I do understand. Yes.
ELIAS: Very well.
NUNO: Okay. Well actually that’s a good clarification. I was thinking more of being into. All right. That’s good. Anyway, so I tried this because I’ve got a lot of time on my hands. (Both laugh) And to my surprise, I did get some sensations when I tried this. I mean not always. I’ve done it a few times and not always am I successful, but sometimes I do get sensations with this. So I guess my question is, is this even realistic?
ELIAS: Yes, I would say. All of it together is definitely moving more in that direction, therefore intentionally doing that action also. How are you doing that?
NUNO: (Both laugh) Well, first of all with the pearl energy, but also—
ELIAS: Oh.
NUNO: Well, I do almost everything with pearl energy. Also, being aware that I’m doing this in conjunction with and in harmony with the subjective awareness. Being aware that this is an action that the subjective awareness can do in collaboration with the objective awareness. I think that’s more or less what I’m doing.
ELIAS: But HOW are you doing it?
NUNO: Mm, in a meditation.
ELIAS: Ah, in your meditation. Excellent avenue. I was simply curious as to your method of how you were doing that, but the explanation is also quite interesting. Fascinating, what humans do. (Both laugh) It’s… It’s fascinating, and I understand when individuals have a question in their energy about why I would view that – or anything that humans do – as fascinating, as if I were never a human. But it’s different when you move into different areas of consciousness.
And in this time framework, in the decades that I have been engaging with all of you, I have moved into Regional Area 5 rather than 4. And the farther I am removed from actual, physical experiences, let us say, I have them, they are in my memory, let us say, but those memories are not only distant but also they are a part of all other memories and therefore, in a manner of speaking, what essences choose to do generally with all of these memories is to not necessarily focus on them as experiences but simply as memories of experiences. And if we’re not paying attention to them – and this is all very (pause) I’d say not accurate, because there is no accurate method of explaining any of this to you in physical focus – but conceptually I’d say that it’s somewhat of a manner of moving all of those memories away, in a manner of speaking, to not cloud whatever it is that we are doing and that we are now experiencing. Just as – I will express a simple example – you will be moving to a different physical manifestation and time framework and therefore you will likely move a lot of your memories into a position in which they’re accessible but you’re not paying attention to them entirely. Do you understand?
NUNO: I do.
ELIAS: Very well. And therefore, being removed from those experiential memories and being able to look at you more from a standpoint of an entire species, because you’re not the only species that I engage in your physical realm, let us say, and therefore remembering how creative you all are but also being fascinated with the types of creations and inventions that you engage is a fascinating part of my interaction with all of you.
NUNO: Actually quite interesting, what you just expressed, and thank you for sharing that.
ELIAS: You are very welcome. I would say that YOU, my friend, are a very (chuckles) inventive individual and therefore you are fascinating as an individual because you are so inventive.
NUNO: Ah, Sumaris are inventive by nature. (Both chuckle) Okay. Well that’s very interesting. You asked me last time if I had made any attempt to subjectively assess what is occurring when I engage Julius and I did do that recently.
ELIAS: Ah!
NUNO: I attempted to, let’s put it this way. So first of all—
ELIAS: And what did you discover?
NUNO: Well, I had an impression that… I’m not sure how good an impression this is, but my impression was that the body consciousness, when the objective awareness begins to separate itself from the body in particular, the body consciousness reacts to that. That the body consciousness is not… or it reacts to the objective awareness pulling away, and that’s causing difficulty. That was my assessment.
ELIAS: (Pause) I would agree in part, but if you are choosing to disengage from the body consciousness – and I would say it doesn’t quite matter the direction that you choose, although this is an unusual choice, but it’s still very similar to death because you’re disengaging from the body –and at that point I would say that there isn’t actually a struggle. That at that point with that choice, the subjective and the objective are together in that choice and definitely in synch with that choice. And therefore there’s not actual resistance with the body. In actuality, I would say – and you can look at this in being evidenced in relation to when someone is in the presence of a physician or someone that has the ability for resuscitation – when an individual is in the process of making that choice and they are interrupted by someone attempting to resuscitate them, the body actually reacts to that more than it reacts to the movement in relation to stopping.
NUNO: Well, I’m not sure at what point in the process is it that I felt the body… Anyways, like I said, this impression may be quite incorrect so I’m not really sure about it. It’s just what I presented myself with when I asked.
ELIAS: It’s interesting.
NUNO: The other thing is, that I did, was immediately on a – well, not immediately but yes, fairly soon after waking up after one of these sessions – I turned my attention inwardly, into the body consciousness, to sense what is occurring inside subjectively. And what I sense is very chaotic.
ELIAS: How so?
NUNO: There is a lot of energy movement, rapid energy movements in what appears to be random directions. It’s like looking into a dust storm, for example. Things are moving quickly and in a very chaotic manner. I can’t really describe it much better than that.
ELIAS: I understand.
NUNO: And I previously said to you that I felt a vibration, but when I looked at that more carefully, I think that vibration was actually my sensing of the connection of the brain to the…. What is it? Is it to the subjective? Or…?
ELIAS: The brain is connected to your neurological system, which is… That can seem very chaotic if you are observing that.
NUNO: Yeah, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
ELIAS: Ah.
NUNO: Because I’ve talked to you, I mentioned this to you before and you said this was very unusual, for someone to be aware of it. It’s the energy connection between the subjective and the brain, or is it the mind and the brain? Like there’s this constant feeding of information to the brain.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. That would be… That would be your subjective awareness. because your mind, which is you, is constantly feeding to the brain information, partially, for the large part, through thought, but it feeds information beyond that. And your subjective awareness is directing all of your senses, which your senses are inputting objectively but your subjective awareness is directing those senses. And therefore there is a lot that the subjective awareness is actually inputting to your physical brain. Yes.
NUNO: Right. And since I have previous experience actually sensing that information, that transfer of information, I got the impression when I looked into the body that that was the vibration I felt. It was not so much a vibration as that pulsation that I had felt—
ELIAS: Ah.
NUNO: — previously.
ELIAS: That is impressive. Yes, I would agree.
NUNO: But I don’t know why the subjective awareness would be… It would be feeding information to it anyway. Anyways, that’s what I get when I look into the body and try and see what’s happening subjectively. And I’m not sure what to do with that information.
ELIAS: I’d say that that’s good information for you to have because it’s giving you a channel, in a manner of speaking, to the workings of the subjective awareness and how it’s connected to the objective. I would say if you were to use let’s say any one of your senses, taking any one of your senses, and modifying the clarity exercise. Not turning off all of your senses and focusing on one, but – actually, not turning off anything – but actually concentrating on one of your senses and then following that from the objective in relation to the subjective. Remember: one isn’t following the other. They’re happening at the same time. Therefore moving in a direction of attempting to make the connection between the objective and the subjective and their actions, because the objective is inputting everything that is associated with that particular sense. The subjective is taking all of that, all that information at the same time, and is inputting that to your brain, which is inputting it to your neurological system. Therefore if you could concentrate your attention in relation to the objective and the subjective awareness.
Understand that your attention is different. It’s not your objective or your subjective awareness. Those are awarenesses. Your attention is part of your mind, your being. It’s an avenue that you direct with your being, your mind, to highlight, let us say, different movements, different things. It… and it can be and is with you, divided in many directions at once. And you can use your senses as an example of that, and that’s only five. But in that, all of them can be active at the same time and for the most part, they are.
But in that, if you could take that one piece, that one action of one of your senses in any moment and what is being expressed, what is being done in that moment with that one sense, and how both awarenesses are acting at the same time, that can give you information about how to be intentional. And you can translate that into your intentional actions of moving your attention away from the importance, changing the importance of health.
NUNO: Okay. I will look into that. I have to digest all of this. (Pause) Do you have more to say?
ELIAS: No.
NUNO: All right. I will digest all of that and see what I can do with it.
ELIAS: Very well.
NUNO: There was a probable self created you told me at the point that I chose to go in the direction of using essences to help me disengage. I’m assuming there hasn’t been another one since. Is that correct?
ELIAS: Correct.
NUNO: All right. So this most recent probable self, I would be very interested in knowing what he is doing, or for that matter if he’s actually still around.
ELIAS: (Pause) He is, but he’s not choosing to move forward to another time framework.
NUNO: What? I thought you told me that he was moving to another reality very similar to the one I’m choosing to go to.
ELIAS: Correct, but that is not in this dimension. And in that, what he’s choosing also is to be moving in a direction of altering the dimensional direction.
NUNO: What does that mean?
ELIAS: His exploration is not simply of another time. He’s chosen to be exploring an other-dimensional phase of reality; therefore, in a manner of speaking, exploring the action of moving into a probable reality, which you can do but that’s considerable challenging. Not creating another you in another probable reality, but maintaining himself in another probable reality; therefore, stepping into a probable reality.
I have had two individuals in my time of interactions with all of you that have sought to do that. One of them was not successful at all. The other was successful in, in a manner of speaking, having one foot in the other probable reality and one foot in this reality. And it did some significant, not damage but alteration to her brain. The brain can’t assimilate that type of action, that type of choice. It is a matter of either stepping into the other probable reality or not. And in stepping into that probable reality, it’s a matter of doing something similar to what you’re doing but having to leave everything. And this individual was incorporating considerable difficulty in making that choice, and therefore began stepping in and out of the other probable reality and then, in a manner of speaking – this is very figurative – but got stuck in between.
NUNO: Okay. That doesn’t sound too good.
ELIAS: No. It wasn’t.
NUNO: (Laughs) But when you do that, and if you’re successful and you do step into the other reality—
ELIAS: Yes?
NUNO: Are you taking the body consciousness with you?
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: Ah, okay. So this is like projecting?
ELIAS: It’s similar. Yes.
NUNO: Oh, okay. Well good luck with that. I mean why would… (Elias laughs) I can’t even imagine why I would do such a thing. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Because it’s another experience.
NUNO: Yeah, I get that, but it’s not me. That’s not an experience I would choose.
ELIAS: Of course not. And any probable you is not you. And they will choose things that you wouldn’t ever choose.
NUNO: Okay.
ELIAS: That’s the point.
NUNO: All right. Well, good luck with that.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I would say that that individual would likely be saying the same to you. (Laughs)
NUNO: Well not really, because I mean all… I… (Laughs) I have numerous different ways of getting out of here. I just am being kind of stubborn about the way I want to do this. But (Elias laughs) I’ve decided that I’m not going to do this for another two years or whatever. I’m getting out of here in the next year, one way or the other.
ELIAS: Ah.
NUNO: I am not going to—
ELIAS: Very well.
NUNO: So it’s not a matter of—
ELIAS: And I support you completely.
NUNO: Oh, that reminds me. When we first started talking about this, you seemed to be steering me away from suicide, and in other words for a while there you were not encouraging me to do that. In fact, you were being discouraging of me to do that but recently you’ve kind of changed.
ELIAS: Because of your, because of your preferences. I was very much in the direction of honoring your preferences and was very aware that that was not a direction that you were entertaining at all.
NUNO: Okay. Well I’m starting to entertain that, but I also want to—
ELIAS: And that is acceptable.
NUNO: But I also at the same time do want to go a little bit further with the essence twins and I think I’m making progress with that so…
ELIAS: I agree.
NUNO: All right. So on that subject, are there over-the-counter, non-prescription medications that can help me in this?
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: Okay. Tell me.
ELIAS: I would say that there are many. You have to ingest large quantities of them, but yes, there are many non-prescription drugs so to speak, or medications that would actually be quite harmful to the body in large quantities.
NUNO: Yeah, just basically poisoning the body.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. Any of the sleep aids, which they generally include significant amounts of antihistamines that are sleep-inducing. Some of them don’t, but most of them do. I would say though that large quantities of sleep-inducing drugs are also something that the body would likely react to, in you might be put to sleep but not in… In a fitful sleep and one in which it would affect your muscles in cramping and it would affect your stomach, in which you likely would become considerably nauseous, but I would say it would do the job. Also, I would say it would be more efficient to use one that doesn’t include a significant amount of antihistamines, because that’s what creates the cramping.
NUNO: I wasn’t thinking so much about an overdose, although I did want to ask you about that.
ELIAS: Ah.
NUNO: I was thinking more about whether this could be an aid to what I am presently doing.
ELIAS: Yes. I would say… Ah! Anti-nausea pills also, such as travel pills that people take for travel or for boats.
NUNO: Okay. I will consider that. Recently I’ve had dreams. I have a lot of dreams. I almost always have a dream after the essence engages me at night and these dreams are often rather chaotic and not really very easily, easy to understand. But occasionally they are somewhat, I wouldn’t say easy to understand but they are something that I can somewhat understand. And there’s been kind of a recurring theme with these dreams in the past few months having to do with connections, and because of my background in electronics and things like that, the symbolism in the dream usually involves electrical connections between devices or equipment or stuff like that. And it usually goes along the lines of the connection isn’t working, the connection needs adjustment, or something to do with the connection. And this has been kind of a theme, not always but it does occur fairly often. So I was wondering what you would have to say about that.
ELIAS: I’d say that’s fairly obvious, that what your dreams are expressing symbolically are you trying to find that connection of what is, in a manner of speaking, holding you back from accomplishing what you want.
NUNO: Is it possible that in a dream, instead of me in the dream being the objective awareness, that I would be the subjective awareness?
ELIAS: You are. The objective awareness is simply putting imagery to that. That’s… that’s the only objective involvement in dreams. It’s all subjective action and movement.
NUNO: Yeah. Yeah. But I’ve had dreams—
ELIAS: It’s not a— Continue.
NUNO: But I’ve had dreams in which both the objective and subjective awareness are there. In other words, I am the objective awareness and there is another which is the subjective awareness.
ELIAS: Yes. I’d say that that’s simply you being aware of both. It’s not separate. It’s simply that you have certain dreams in which you are aware of both.
NUNO: I had an impression about Nova. And this is kind of a not very important thing, and it’s not a very strong impression but I’m going to go out on a limb and ask you about it anyway. (Elias chuckles) My impression is that in Nova when they greet each other, they touch their palms. They kind of… They hold their hands vertically, fingers upward, and they gently touch the palm of the other person briefly. And they do this instead of a handshake, for example.
ELIAS Yes, you are correct.
NUNO: Ah! Okay.
ELIAS: It’s a matter of expressing connection, not simply greeting.
NUNO: Right. And they’re expressing connection and they’re also… it’s also an expression of friendship, I think.
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: And unlike here where when people shake hands, it’s kind of a formal thing. It doesn’t actually occur that… You would only generally shake hands with somebody the first time you meet them or something like that. But there they, I think they do this action more casually, such as when you meet up with a friend or something like that.
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: Okay. All right. Just thought I’d ask.
ELIAS: You are correct. I would again acknowledge you for tapping into that even more.
NUNO: Okay. Oh! Okay, so this is important. You’re going to be my childhood friend and—
ELIAS: Correct.
NUNO: I would like you to do two things for me, please, to remind me of two things, if that’s possible. One thing I would like you to remind me of when I’m there is the importance of moving in the direction towards zero separation. Zero separation is very important to me, and—
ELIAS: Very well.
NUNO: — if you would remind me of that. Also, one other thing, and this is kind of… You’re going to think this is kind of weird, but here it goes: if you would remind me about the passenger pigeon and how it was hunted to extinction.
ELIAS: Very well. I can definitely agree to that.
NUNO: Okay. The reason is because I want to make it kind of a pet project of mine in Nova to bring that species back. Not just that one, but in particular that one.
ELIAS: Very well.
NUNO: All right. Thank you.
ELIAS: You are very welcome.
NUNO: I know that’s kind of weird.
[The timer for the end of the session rings]
ELIAS: I don’t necessarily express that it’s weird. I would say that it’s an interest, or both of those are interests to you. And in that, I’d also say that it’s no stranger than the interest that scientists have in your present time of bringing back woolly mammoths.
NUNO: Yeah, but the motivation is different.
ELIAS: I understand. I know that the motivation is different, but I would say that it’s not strange.
NUNO: Very well, my friend. Thank you for your information. And if you have any parting words of wisdom, I would graciously accept them.
ELIAS: I would say that my parting words are to genuinely try what we have expressed and discussed, and I would be very interested in your progress in those directions. And it would be something that I will incorporate in my interactions with the group of individuals upcoming next month in our group interaction. I would appreciate that from you.
NUNO: Very well. I can do that.
ELIAS: And other than that, I sincerely express my tremendous, tremendous love and appreciation for you, and how much I express that wondrous companionship with you and the tremendous appreciation and information that I receive from you in your experiments and your experiences.
I shall be with you continuously, my friend, as always. In tremendous, tremendous, dear friendship to you, au revoir.
NUNO: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour)
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