Past, Present and Future: The Influence of the Subjective on the Objective
Topics:
“Past, Present and Future: The Influence of the Subjective on the Objective”
“The Brain-Hand and Attention Connections in Dissipating Anger and Depression”
“Giving Oneself an Experience of Gratitude”
Thursday, September 4, 2025 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jean-Baptiste (Araili)
(Excerpt begins)
ELIAS: And that's what draws them to you. Therefore, at the end of each session you address to whatever it is that isn't working now and give them some method of action that they can use that will be successful, that allows them to frame themselves in a successful manner, even if it's simply excusing themself from whatever situation they're in for two minutes and changing their environment by going outside or going inside.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yeah.
ELIAS: And in that, that action of changing their environment is actually very powerful. Even though they will continue to be thinking about whatever is making them angry, give them something more than simply “go outside” or “go inside.” [Tell them:] “When you go outside, look at your environment. Pay attention to what is around you.”
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay. Yes, always connect and engage.
ELIAS: Yes, that actually affects how the physical brain is communicating with the neurological system, and that helps to dissipate the anger. It's also a matter of continuing to be aware and to make suggestions in directions of people doing something using their hands.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay.
ELIAS: Because the physical brain cannot hold two significant actions at the same time. Therefore, a person can't be depressed and be using their hands consistently at the same time.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay, that's interesting.
ELIAS: Because the brain will always move first in the direction of what the hands are doing. And the reason that the brain focuses more on hands than other parts of the body – unless there is pain – but the hands are an expression of automatic and natural creativity and expression.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes.
ELIAS: You know that people speak and move their hands at the same time.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes.
ELIAS: Because the body is designed in a capacity that the hands are what are the most directing of expression and creativity. Therefore the brain, your physical brain, automatically focuses on that first.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay.
ELIAS: Even if the person is not necessarily paying attention to what they're doing with their hands.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes, but it's easy to…
ELIAS: Such as scribbling.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: It gives new stimuli for the brain, for the body also. And I am aware through the Qigong and other practices that I've learned that when you move any part of your body, it also interacts or moves the other parts of the body in some ways.
ELIAS: Yes. That is something that you learn from individuals that have had injuries such as broken bones, because they discover that movement of other parts of their body actually affects that broken bone and makes it hurt.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes.
ELIAS: Therefore, they wouldn't know that connection generally without having some effect of a particular part of the body, unless they have engaged some discipline such as you have.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes. And I think now that there is no wonder why I was attracted and drawn to learning these different practices, because that's giving me so much information and a frame of reference to understand what you are giving to us as information also.
ELIAS: I very much agree. And remember, there are no accidents.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (Laughs) Yes. (Elias chuckles)
ELIAS: Many times you don't necessarily realize the significance of certain choices that you make until later.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes, much later sometimes. (Both laugh) But I've become aware that the subjective is, in a manner of speaking, out of time. So whatever it explores can be manifested in different time frameworks of your focus, but it's all connected through that out-of-timeness of the subjective.
ELIAS: Meaning what?
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Meaning that as it's nonphysical the time is different, or it connects to the past, with the future, with the present or the potential futures, etc. And so that's how...
ELIAS: Yes, but it's also very much focused in now, at the same time.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: So how is that? That's one aspect that I was curious about. How does it connect with the present? (Elias laughs)
ELIAS: Because it is completely knit together with the objective, and the objective is very much an awareness of the present. It's the subjective that influences that piece of the objective to move back and forth, of anticipating the future or looking at the past.
That is the influence of the subjective in an objective expression. I would say that that's how the subjective does move in what you were expressing – past and future and present and different aspects of the future – but it's also very anchored in now.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: I love that. You know, it almost gives me goosebumps. (Both laughs)
I had experiences a long time ago, especially when I was recovering or on my way to find to recover and empower my path when I was unwell in China, is that I realized that when I would play, let's say, Solitaire – you know, the card game when you play on your own and you have to organize or move the cards?
ELIAS: Yes.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: So I would play that, and later the same thing happened with playing or doing Sudokus. When I would move the cards, I became aware that they suddenly symbolized family relationships or family members, and I would move the cards and it would have an influence or move the family members and do something inward.
And I was very curious about that. It was like moving a dream, and as I moved the objective pieces it moved the inner pieces of how I organized my family relationships in the past or how I... It also changed the points of view, like if I move that card here, it allows me to see the memory or the situation from another angle, and I would play with that and it would kind of do some kind of inner works or whatever.
ELIAS: Yes. Precisely, because –
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Was it playing with the objective and the subjective at the same time as they were knitted together?
ELIAS: Yes, precisely. Yes, absolutely. And I would say that that is a very good example of that interplay of the objective and the subjective. They are not separate. They CAN'T be separated.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Oh yes. And I really experienced that in my life. Is that what you say that how the objective directs the subjective or something? Because you mentioned that to Christoph, I think? That at some point we...
ELIAS: One doesn't follow the other.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes.
ELIAS: They are both moving at the same time in the same direction but with different expressions.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay, so that means that... and it makes sense to be both at the same time, like bridging each other and have that awareness that as I move objectively I also move subjectively.
ELIAS: Yes, yes.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: That's wild.
ELIAS: You cannot move one without the other unless you choose to disengage.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: That's an exploration for another time. (Both laugh)
But I must say, I'm also curious about that, and I will be glad to move on when the time comes and I'm ready to move on to go in this new adventure.
ELIAS: Aha.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Because from what I gathered from what you said, from what I read from Seth, etc., it seems like it's all fun again, like discovering new things and exploring new things.
ELIAS: Yes. I actually have been engaging conversations with an individual that I have engaged for many, many of your years, and he is absolutely excited about dying. (Laughs)
JEAN-BAPTISTE: (Chuckles) That's nice.
ELIAS: That he is looking forward to this opportunity to play and to do what he wants to do with no effort, and he's very excited about the entire subject. (Chuckles)
JEAN-BAPTISTE: I'm happy to hear that some people have that frame of mind also.
ELIAS: Yes, and not afraid.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes. And you know what? Something happened last year that made me realize that maybe I'm not afraid of dying now. I have been for a long time, and what happened was that we were in Normandy with Eric, and suddenly I realized there was some kind of pressure in my head, and my right eye started to lose the vision. And it was super weird, and I suddenly became dizzy. So I took it all in and I said, “Oh I don't know, maybe I'm choosing to disengage in some way, like having a stroke or something.” So I just remained very quiet. I smiled and I told Eric, “Listen, this is happening. That's what I'm experiencing. Whatever is happening, just know that I love you and that I'm so happy to have spent that time with you.” And then I just lay down on the couch and we just waited, continued to discuss until the whole thing passed, and I recovered the vision and whatever was there dissipated.
And I was surprised afterward of how quiet and how peaceful I was about the whole thing and that it was just “Okay, so just another thing that's happening.” And when it was finished...
ELIAS: I will definitely express to you that whenever the experience happens that you are actually moving in the direction of death, or even if you're not and you're simply entertaining it and having an experience that is close to it but you don't actually choose it, you will experience a very obvious neutrality.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay.
ELIAS: Nothing is bothersome, nothing is frightening, nothing is pulling you in a particular direction or another; it's simply an experience of curiosity. And in that, you will know that that is a part of it, that death is a part of it, but it won't be something that you will be afraid of or uncomfortable with.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay. So at that time I was not choosing to disengage but merely giving me that experience for reference or for… ?
ELIAS: Yes.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Okay.
It was really… What I can say is that I felt so grateful for everything that I experienced and the people I met and everything. It was…
ELIAS: That's likely why you gave yourself the experience, not necessarily to be engaging death but more likely to give yourself that experience of gratitude and to remind yourself of what is genuinely important to you.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Yes, it did.
I think the timer rang, so we'll just leave it at that. Do you have anything to tell me about the aspect of starting to engage people with their trauma work or... ?
ELIAS: I would say we have covered that quite well this day, and it's merely a matter of trusting yourself and engaging.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Thank you. Thank you very much.
ELIAS: You're very, very welcome. I shall tremendously be looking forward to our next meeting
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Me too.
ELIAS: And I shall be offering my encouragement and my energy and helpfulness in the in-between time.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Thank you very much. Goodbye.
ELIAS: In exquisite love and friendship to you my dear, au revoir.
JEAN-BAPTISTE: Au revoir.
(Excerpt ends after 20 minutes 30 seconds)
Copyright 2025 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.