Stepping into a Different Reality: Part 12
Topics:
“Manipulating the Heartrate in Deep Relaxation”
“Concentrated Expression of the Subjective and Objective in Harmony”
“Manipulating the Energy Field”
“Coma State”
“Beliefs versus What You Believe”
Monday, August 25, 2025 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Nuno (Lystell)
ELIAS: Good morning!
NUNO: Hello, my friend.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) And how shall we proceed?
NUNO: Ah, let me see. I know what I’d like to proceed with, but I’m not sure you’re going to be able to do too much about it. Let’s see. You don’t have a quick way to check out, do you? No. Okay. (Elias chuckles) I mean you do, but I didn’t like (chuckles) any of your choices. (Both laugh)
ELIAS: That would be the key in the question, one that you would like. (Laughs)
NUNO: Well, I’ve come up with a few. I still want to go in a direction of energy and using some kind of energy work, together with the essences. That is definitely my number one choice. Anyway, I’ll see how it goes. I mean it’s coming up to almost a year now, which is I find kind of a bit much, but oh well.
ELIAS: How are you proceeding with the other essences?
NUNO: I’m actually proceeding quite well. It’s just a matter of… All I have to go by on that is the way I feel after I engage them. And I do feel the effects of that, sometimes really strongly, sometimes not so much, but I think the objective information I have is not really complete. It doesn’t really tell me what’s going on subjectively, I think. That’s the piece that’s difficult for me, is not being able to assess the progress in any accurate way.
ELIAS: And what have you been doing in relation to being more aware of your subjective movement?
NUNO: Not a whole lot. I mean I’ve started to try and move more towards the subjective. I can’t say I’ve done really much of that at all. I mean all I’ve done is really assess what the condition of the body consciousness is, after I engage the essences, and I’ve been using that as kind of an indicator. I’ve had some interesting experiences.
ELIAS: Do tell.
NUNO: After we talked last time and I asked about the other twin, I started engaging that one as well. And I have a lot of difficulty telling the difference between essences just by their energy, just generally that’s not an easy thing for me to do. But with the twins, the energies are very close, but I think I can tell. My assessment is that I’m engaging Julian during the day and Julius at night. And pretty consistently, Julius engages me at night. I don’t even have to initiate that. It just happens and I will wake up during the night and feel the effects of that, and in the morning. And I believe that there’s things occurring there.
ELIAS: Excellent. What do you feel?
NUNO: It’s kind of hard to describe. I would say if it’s really strong, I feel weak. I feel kind of a vibration on the inside, definitely a vibration on the inside of the body. A little bit disoriented, perhaps. A little bit wobbly on my feet, if it’s particularly strong.
ELIAS: And in that, would you express that it is a feeling of being drained?
NUNO: Yeah. Definitely. That’s what it is, yes. Exhausted.
ELIAS: That is progress.
NUNO: I often find myself breathing through my mouth, because I’m not getting enough air.
ELIAS: Ah.
NUNO: My heartrate is down, a lot. After one of these sessions with the twins, my heartrate will really go down.
ELIAS: That’s definitely an indicator.
NUNO: Generally my heartrate is much lower than it used to be, even when I’m just sitting. It’s usually now, if I’m reasonably relaxed, it’d usually be around the low fifties.
ELIAS: Ah.
NUNO: I’ve noticed it go all the way down to forty-two after engaging the essences. I can even bring it down—
ELIAS: That’s—
NUNO: — to about forty-six.
ELIAS: That’s significant.
NUNO: It’s interesting but I mean, does it really… I mean it… I don’t know. I mean, it’s been like that for a while. It doesn’t really… I mean, the body consciousness isn’t going to allow it to drop below a certain level.
ELIAS: That depends. It depends on how directed you are. The body consciousness doesn’t act on its own. It has to be directed and connected with your subjective awareness, but there is also a part of that, that your objective awareness is participating in. Therefore it’s a matter of recognizing that the body consciousness, yes, as I’ve said, does fight to continue to exist. But that also has to do with your subjective awareness AND the interplay and participation of your objective awareness. It’s all interconnected in that movement, let us say, of preservation of existence. (Pause)
Therefore I’d say that in addition to considerably lowering your heartrate, it’s also – or speeding it up, either one – would be a matter of placing yourself in a very deep, deep state of relaxation. The combination of the two is definitely one that can move you in that direction.
NUNO: The combination of which two? Besides the deep relaxation.
ELIAS: The heartrate being considerably lowered or considerably raised, one or the other. It’s more difficult to… actually I’ll amend what I was about to express and say to you that it’s more difficult for a few minutes to put yourself in a very deep relaxation if you choose to raise the heartrate because for a few minutes, it will be difficult to breathe. Therefore there is an automatic struggle in relation to breathing. In that, for a few minutes, I would say about three to four minutes – which is not long, but when you are experiencing it, it can feel as if it’s a lifetime – but in that, I would say that if you can keep your focus and keep your center with yourself as you raise your heartrate, if you can raise it high enough, then that also would be a quick manner of moving in that direction.
NUNO: That’d be quicker than reducing the heartrate?
ELIAS: Yes. It would be. Reducing the heartrate actually, especially if you have a lot of practice – which you do, in lowering it to the fifties or the forties count – reducing it, your body in a deep relaxation will accept that and it will allow you to sustain for… it could be actually up to one-half of an hour or even forty-five minutes. Whereas if you’re raising your heartrate, that can create the heart to stop. It will only allow you to raise to a certain point and then it will stop. It’s something that takes practice though, because it’s difficult to focus your attention in relaxing while you’re raising your heartrate to a racing speed.
NUNO: Right. I don’t have any experience with that at all. I mean, I’ve had, on the very rare occasion I’ve had actually that occur spontaneously and then I would stop it, but it wasn’t intentional.
ELIAS: I understand. That’s why I would say to you it would require practice. It would first require the practice of being definitely focused in relation to relaxing, when you’re not lowering your heartrate.
NUNO: So tell me: what are the twins doing these days?
ELIAS: In what capacity?
NUNO: Well, in how they engage me or I’m engaging them. I’m not really sure whether I’m engaging them or they engage me. (Laughs) I think it’s more—
ELIAS: I’d say it’s both. It’s not either-or.
NUNO: Yeah. I think it’s kind of both. What capacity? I mean, I know what is being… the direction that they are moving. Are they still moving in the direction of a coma?
ELIAS: I’d say that the one is, definitely. The other is actually simply moving in a direction of being soothing and expressing an energy of calming, because it’s a matter of both.
NUNO: And the calming one, that would be the one I engage during the day?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes, in the day.
NUNO: Well, that’s important information. I wasn’t sure exactly what that one was doing.
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: That’s the one I was, I was starting to say I had an interesting experience with. Because one day, one morning, I went into a meditation while engaging that essence and I did it in a way that I wanted to move deeper and deeper into the energy of that essence. And I did that very effectively, because when I came out of meditation… First of all, I think I fell asleep during the meditation, but it doesn’t matter. When I came out of it, when I woke up, I was in a very good state after that. It was a state of… I’m not really sure. It could have been a state of low separation. It could have been a state of just being very present. I’m not sure. But it lasted with me like almost two days. It was very—
ELIAS: That is impressive.
NUNO: Yes. But I haven’t been able actually to recreate that.
ELIAS: I’d say that that would be a matter of definitely moving in tandem with this other essence and I’d say that it’s a matter of when you recognize that energy of that essence… Mm… Attempt to fall into it, as if you were falling into a pool of water, in your meditation.
NUNO: I find that that essence is actually with me almost continuously throughout the day, as long as I’m not engaged in something objective. If I’m engaged in something objective that I’m very focused on, then I don’t really feel the presence of the essence. But outside of that, I feel the energy of that essence with me almost continuously.
ELIAS: That’s excellent. I would say that during your meditation, however the intensity is of that other essence, it doesn’t matter. Because you can increase your energy, and that essence will match it.
NUNO: Right. Yes, I think that’s my experience with that. Yes.
ELIAS: Good. And then you can fall into that and that will help you to move deeper into that relaxation, that ultimate relaxation.
I will say one point is that if you move in a significantly deep relaxation with that essence, the other one will participate and, in a manner of speaking, jump in to help move you into that direction that you want to move in, in relation to a coma.
NUNO: Yes. I’ve… I’ve experienced that. Yes. On occasion, that has occurred.
ELIAS: Excellent. And did you notice what stopped it?
NUNO: Well, I fall asleep. I mean that’s what happens, is when I engage that other essence effectively, I fall asleep. And what stops it? I don’t know.
ELIAS: Are you aware of falling asleep?
NUNO: No.
ELIAS: Or are you aware when you…? Very well.
NUNO: I’m not aware when I fall asleep. Oftentimes I can’t even remember. I have to think, “Did I fall asleep?” I can’t even remember. So no, I’m not aware when I fall asleep.
ELIAS: Very well. Continue. What were you about to express?
NUNO: I was going to ask… It’s a crystal ball question, but you know, maybe your crystal ball is… (both chuckle) has some insights. (Elias chuckles) I want to know, with the way things are progressing today, if there’s some kind of timeline or something like that? Or some indication of direction? Something like that.
ELIAS: One moment. You’re correct. It is a crystal ball question, but one moment. (Pause) I’d say you are progressing steadily and well, especially engaging these other essences. (Pause)
Now; in that, what I could say to you, understand, is a variance. That depending upon how you are directing your objective more in a direction with your subjective, in relation to how you are manipulating the body – are you following thus far?
NUNO: Yes, but what kind of manipulation?
ELIAS: You’re always manipulating the body, regardless of what you’re doing. You’re manipulating it when you walk, when you talk, when you sit, when you stand. You’re always manipulating the body. Therefore if you can be manipulating the body more in an expression that both the objective and subjective are (pause) moving in a concentrated expression together – and you will know that because the subjective is always, in a manner of speaking, mirroring the objective, therefore you will know by your objective expression or how you are manipulating the body objectively by what it’s doing. And in that, if you can move that harmony, which the harmony already exists, but if you can move that harmony in an expression in which you are intentionally manipulating the body in a manner to come closer to not functioning – not simply your heart, although I will say that in your society that is the one organ that determines your existence or it determines life and death. In that though, I would express that it’s not only your heart. It’s a matter of the whole of the body, in a manner of speaking, shutting down and not functioning. And in that, I wouldn’t necessarily suggest that you attempt to be focused on your organs or what’s happening internally with your body, but more so simply, very simply, being focused on the whole of your body. And I would suggest being more focused on your energy field and all of your energy centers, and stopping them. You will feel that physically. Even if you’re almost stopping them, any one of them, you will feel it. And that—
NUNO: Any one in particular?
ELIAS: No. No. You… I would say it’s a matter of targeting all of them. You can do that through your energy field, because your energy field is an expression of all of your energy centers. They all contribute to your energy field. Therefore if you are focusing on shutting down your energy field, that affects your energy centers, or you can move in the opposite direction and be shutting down your energy centers. I wouldn’t necessarily suggest that you move in the direction of one at a time. I would suggest that you target all of them at the same time, because one at a time is going to encourage a fight.
NUNO: This isn’t an area I have any experience with actually, especially not the energy centers. That’s something that I have not paid a lot of attention to. Possibly the energy field, although I haven’t actually even considered that.
ELIAS: Since you’re moving and working with energy primarily, I would say that this would be another avenue that you could explore and target.
NUNO: Okay. Very well. That’s excellent. I will definitely look into that.
I’d like to ask a question about the coma state. And if that were to be achieved, what happens next?
ELIAS: Mm. (Pause) That can be tricky, my friend, because you can actually sustain that state for quite a time. People can be in the state of a coma for years. Therefore that’s a tricky avenue. You’re not actually in a tremendously calm or relaxed state when you’re in a coma. You can be, but it’s not something that is automatic. Therefore you do still have some objective awareness. It is a state in which you trade the objective awareness for the subjective awareness as being the primary awareness that you have. Therefore you do still have an active objective awareness, but it slips into that position of what your subjective is now, in a manner of speaking, in the background. Therefore you have enough active objective awareness to generate imagery that is similar to dream imagery, because it’s still translating the subjective actions. You can still objectively hear and have sense input. Your sight changes to inner sight, but the rest of your senses can still be functioning. They are functioning at a lower level, in a manner of speaking, because you don’t generally engage reactions.
NUNO: I’d like to ask a question at this point about that, because of from some of the information that you’ve expressed previously on the coma state, and also that other state which people commonly call the unconscious state.
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: They are kind of similar and what it comes down to is that the objective awareness has, in a coma state, disengaged from the objective reality – well, substantially. And it also is a decision point in which, the way you described it is a decision point in which the objective awareness chooses whether to disengage or continue. So I thought that that was actually the whole point of this, that that’s what the essence was doing, so that I arrive at that decision point. Is that not what is happening?
ELIAS: Yes, it can be. It definitely can be. And, and actually I would say that yes, it is. Because it’s a point in which you are making that decision of whether you’re going to continue or whether you’re going to not.
NUNO: Which awareness makes that choice?
ELIAS: Both.
NUNO: What I was wondering though, I mean… All that it takes really is for the communication to stop between the subjective awareness and the body consciousness. When that communication stops, the body automatically disengages after a period of time.
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: As I understand it, what’s preventing that from happening is because the objective awareness is still attached?
ELIAS: (Pause) It’s not a matter of attachment. At this point, it’s more a matter of the objective awareness is still being considerably engaged.
NUNO: With the objective reality or with the body? Or both?
ELIAS: Both.
NUNO: In other states like a coma state, that would be less so?
ELIAS: Correct.
NUNO: What I’m really trying to understand here is, I mean there’s obviously a reason that the essence chose this particular method and there must be some plan to this.
ELIAS: Because it’s easy.
NUNO: Mm, okay. So have I been in that state briefly?
ELIAS: Coma state?
NUNO: Yeah.
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: Okay. So what happened? Did I make the wrong choice? What happened?
ELIAS: No. It’s not about making the wrong choice. No. That can easily happen, in which both your objective and subjective are still enough engaged in relation to not only the body consciousness but in relation to life, that you move in and out.
NUNO: You said that progress was being made, so—
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: How exactly does that manifest itself, that progress?
ELIAS: I’d say that the factor that, as you have been moving in the direction of moving more and more into that deep relaxation and you’ve been moving in a direction of lowering your heartrate, that that and the success in relation to that is evidence that you’ve definitely been being more successful. And I’d say that your experiences with your meditations have definitely been more successful.
Now; I would express that if you can move yourself into a lucid state, which that would be an objective action when you fall asleep in your meditation, that would also be helpful. But I would say that at this point, moving yourself in the direction of the energy centers would also be very productive.
I would say that your movement with these other essences has definitely been something that is being more successful than previously. Choosing to pair yourself with them has definitely paid off.
NUNO: Yes. That was my assessment. I’m a little concerned though, about what you said about the coma state, because it sounds like it’s not really a kind of easy transition from there. It sounds like—
ELIAS: It can be. Don’t be concerned, because it can be. I’m merely expressing that it’s not something automatic, and therefore in that, for you to realize that once you enter that coma state, that’s when you have to make a choice. And that choice is both objective and subjective. That is what I have expressed from the onset, that – from the onset of this forum – that when you are at that point, you know objectively, not simply subjectively, that you are at the point of that choice, that decision.
NUNO: And would you say it is likely that I make the choice that I want to make?
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: Okay. That was one of my concerns.
ELIAS: Because an individual that wants to disengage when they are in a coma, they generally will do it very quickly. (Pause) Unless they are in an intentionally-induced coma, because that wasn’t the individual’s choice. It was but it wasn’t, in a manner of speaking.
NUNO: Okay. Let me ask a different question.
ELIAS: Very well.
NUNO: At the time of the transition from the objective to the subjective, in other words the time of disengagement in this particular case, because I’m not going to Region Area 2, it’s more of a transcendence, is it not?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking yes, it is.
NUNO: So is the objective awareness, is it simply discarded or is it assimilated?
ELIAS: Assimilated. It becomes, the objective awareness that you have now, becomes positioned in memory, but close memory.
NUNO: The beliefs in Nova, and I’m thinking particularly about contagion and degeneration with age, those two beliefs, are these beliefs that have been discarded or do people still hold to these beliefs and other similar things like that?
ELIAS: It’s not a matter of beliefs, because as I’ve said, their belief systems are not something that you eliminate. It’s more a matter of constructs. And therefore in that, yes, the constructs are very different because if you look at what constructs are, which they are answers to all situations, they are the answers to the reasons why. And if you look at that and you recognize, which in your present reality you and many other individuals have already begun to do this – which is significant – but in the future they’re beyond the point that all of you are at.
And in that, they recognize that the constructs that you have now – meaning you as a whole, not you individually – but the constructs that are expressed now, they recognize as your movement in relation to becoming more aware and becoming more shifted. And they don’t hold those constructs, because they understand how you in your reality now, all of you, have given yourselves reasons for everything that you believe. Not beliefs, but what you believe.
Your beliefs don’t dictate those actions, let us say. Your beliefs are not dictating your perception of aging. It’s what you believe and the constructs that you engage that determine that type of thing. Do you understand?
NUNO: Mm. Not exactly, but I’ll….
ELIAS: What do you not understand?
NUNO: I need to assimilate what you said. And I haven’t—
ELIAS: Very well.
NUNO: I haven’t done that yet, but it isn’t that I don’t understand. And I know that you’ve always said that beliefs cannot be eliminated, and that part I don’t understand because I have eliminated beliefs in myself – although you would probably use a different word to describe that. For example, with contagion.
My question just generally then is that things like contagion and degeneration with age, that becomes a choice, an objective choice in Nova?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
NUNO: That’s really what I was asking.
ELIAS: Yes. And they are very aware. I would say that I would use a different terminology. I understand what you are expressing, and I would say that what you’ve done is you’ve become more self-aware and therefore you have actually eliminated some of these constructs, such as contagion, and it’s not something that you adhere to any longer.
NUNO: I understand. Is the mind shared—
ELIAS: Yes?
NUNO: Is the mind shared by both awarenesses?
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: I was going to talk to you about identity, but it’s a very long conversation and we don’t have time for that. I guess basically what it comes down to is, when a focus is created…. a number of focuses are usually created, and they’re usually created from a group of essences and these essences express the focuses. I asked you whether the focuses were fragmented from the essence and you said not necessarily. So if they were not fragmented – and I’m speaking in particular about the subjective awareness of the focuses – if they’re not fragmented, how is it created and what is the connection to the essences that expressed the focus?
ELIAS: If the focus is not fragmented from an essence, is this your question?
NUNO: Yes.
ELIAS: How is it brought into existence?
NUNO: Yes.
ELIAS: That depends, it could be (pause) a choice of one essence that expresses a certain generation of energy to create that focus of attention, or many. That is generally what happens, but there is also the participation of many other essences that are adding to that energy and contributing to the qualities and expressions and energy of the manifestation of that focus, or of any focus.
NUNO: And for myself specifically, was I fragmented or not? This focus.
ELIAS: This focus. One moment. (Pause) Yes.
NUNO: I was fragmented. And since I’ve been like jumping around between realities for some time now, you’re referring to the original focus?
ELIAS: Mm. Not the original focus. I would say that the original -- mm, how can I explain this? – gathering of essences in favor of generating your own.
NUNO: I’ll have to think about that. I guess what I’m really asking was about identity. And that question is, just generally speaking, when an essence or a group of essences produce a cluster of focuses, each one of those focuses is very different from each other. But when eventually they transcend, is the identity of that focus separate or the same as the essence that expressed the focus?
ELIAS: (Pause) Restate the question.
NUNO: Well, I guess the question is: when a focus transcends back to being essence, is the identity of that essence the same as the essence that expressed the focus to begin with?
ELIAS: Yes. And the identity of the focus remains. It’s not absorbed into that essence.
NUNO: The essence becomes more?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes. Yes.
NUNO: But you say I was fragmented. And I was—
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: — in this particular focus, right now?
ELIAS: Correct. Correct.
NUNO: Okay. And I was fragmented from Lystell?
ELIAS: No. You are Lystell.
NUNO: Lystell was fragmented from three other essences. I understand that.
ELIAS: Yes. That was your choice.
NUNO: That was my choice?
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: But I didn’t exist before I was fragmented.
ELIAS: Ah, but the energy did. It’s a combination of energies and the will and intention of that energy became its own manifestation, its own being.
NUNO: Okay. This is getting pretty deep. (Elias chuckles) You’ve answered a lot of questions for me here.
An individual I know and you know also very well had an experience in which they somehow changed their perception in a way that, for a brief period of time, they eliminated one of their legs. Their leg disappeared. And the person tried to stand up and they fell over because they didn’t have a leg. I told them that it was simply an alteration of perception that caused this. What would you have to say about this experience?
ELIAS: I would agree, but perception creates your reality. Therefore it’s definitely real, but then it can be re-established by changing the perception also.
NUNO: Right. Do have anything else to say to this person about that experience?
ELIAS: I’d say that that type of movement or generating those types of experiences can be very unnerving and even frightening at times. And I understand the curiosity to explore such an experience, but I would also be cautioning that it’s something that can also, in a manner of speaking, become stuck and the individual might not know how to undo it. But it’s definitely an example of the strength of perception and how you manipulate it.
NUNO: Yeah, I thought it was quite an impressive thing to actually happen.
ELIAS: I would say the same.
NUNO: And you’re aware of who I’m speaking of, right?
ELIAS: Yes.
NUNO: Yes. Okay. All right. I just thought I’d ask that, because it was rather unusual.
All right. Thank you, my friend.
ELIAS: You are very welcome. I am tremendously encouraging of you, as always. And I express tremendous, tremendous support in what you’re doing. I would also express that I will be offering my energy in aid in relation to your energy centers.
NUNO: Thank you.
ELIAS: You are very welcome. In great love and in genuine, dear friendship, au revoir.
NUNO: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 57 minutes)
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