Definitions of Science and Religion
Topics:
“Definitions of Science and Religion”
“The Pushback Before the Acceptance”
“The New Closure Is Closing Your Mouth”
“An Empowering Experience”
“An Intuition About the Bilderberg Group”
Friday, August 8, 2025
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Ann (Vivette)
(Audio starts after greetings)
ANN: We’re on our summer of travel, but it’s all good, it’s all good. This summer’s easier than last summer, but… (Elias chuckles) But before we get into the midst of the conversation, I want to ask something for Oba, or Ken. Let’s see, what did he say? He says he remembers “ages ago E saying someone was still alive when they had actually died. Exact same type of situation. Steve Lord and [inaudible]”… Oh, actually that’s not it. Never mind. What did he want me to ask you? (Elias laughs) Wait a minute. August… It’s a reminder. Something that actually has happened. Oh! Wait a minute. Maybe we had… Okay, here – wait a minute. I’m sorry. Talk about not being prepared.
All right. Here’s the next question to you regarding his meteorite. He says, “Thanks again, Vivvie, for asking these questions concerning the proposed meteorite you gave info about for me in her last session. The initial testing by a renowned lab showed a marked absence of nickel and virtually all of the stony irons, and iron meteorites are composed of an iron-nickel alloy making up the metal part. The owner of the lab told me he was literally surprised by a lack of nickel, which indicated it being extraterrestrial is unlikely. Fortunately the initial testing was inexpensive, much to my relief. So now I am seeking further info. Did I find a meteorite that doesn’t fit the criteria of what has conventionally been found before, perhaps from a part of our solar system that hasn’t been noted yet as representative of a sample of its type and kind? Is my proposed meteorite a bleed-through from an adjacent, parallel dimension to this one? Or simply was it that did my fear of not being proven an actual meteorite cause it to reconfigure as terrestrial?”
ELIAS: (Pause) It’s not terrestrial to your planet. It is to your universe, but not your actual planet.
ANN: So the lack of nickel found in it, what does that mean? Because I guess the lab had said if it’s going to be extraterrestrial it would have to have nickel in it?
ELIAS: No. Not if it’s extraterrestrial. If it is more associated with your planet and space debris around your planet, or if it is what you would term to be relatively close to your planet, such as your solar system, it likely would. But if it’s outside of your solar system, it likely wouldn’t.
ANN: So is this meteorite from outside of our solar system but still part of our universe?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Interesting. Okay. Well, we will leave that for now. We’ll see what he sleuths after that.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) Very well.
ANN: All right. And then what I’m gonna talk about today… I have a lot of questions, but I think I want to start off with talking about science and religion. Since we are in the science wave, let’s stay on topic.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANN: And I thought a good place to start would be… I want you to give me, if you would so choose, to give me your definition one, of science, and then your definition of religion, to start with.
ELIAS: Hm. I’d say that that is relatively easy.
ANN: All right.
ELIAS: Science is based in mathematics and intellectual examinations and explorations. Religion is based in philosophy – which is not the part of philosophy that is also based in mathematics, because there is a part of philosophy that IS based in mathematics also. But religion is based in philosophy associated with ideas of something that is greater than yourselves. Both of them are, in a manner of speaking, a search for origin, but one is based in physical and the other is based in not-physical. I’m not saying NON-physical; I’m saying not-physical.
ANN: Oh, interesting. Okay.
ELIAS: Most religions do incorporate some aspects of what you would term to be spirituality that is touching on non-physical in relation to consciousness, but they’re not actually labeling it as consciousness. And in that, they touch upon the philosophy of SOME of that. But I would say then there is a lot of it that is based in speculation and human formulation of what they believe is outside of their realm – your realm.
ANN: Mm. Would you say, talking about not truth (laughs) but accuracy, since science is based on physical and we are currently, or I am currently, focused in a physical universe, would you say science is more factual than religion?
ELIAS: (Pause) I would say that once science recognizes perception as real, then it may be more accurate than religion. But at present I would say that TOGETHER they have some accuracy, and they have more accuracy than they do individually.
ANN: Interesting. So, I’ve just been noticing lately similarities between religion and science, like some of those similarities would be both ask you to trust them above your own selves –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: One either has the facts to prove it, or the other has the faith to prove it.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: And both have been proven in their past time frameworks to have been inaccurate in certain avenues. And I was thinking there’s a different thing, like there’s this new saying currently when people say, “I believe in science. I trust the science,” and then the response to that is, “Well, whose science do you trust?” Because there’s different studies, and as we all know, perception. You know someone’s going to fund a study, you’re probably going to get that outcome of what the person who funded the study wants it, and it can be science.
And then you think about different religions, like you have different religions, whether it’s Buddhism or Hinduism or Christianity. So I kind of feel like there’s different sciences as well, even though I’ve figured the science people would deny that. They would say one is accurate science and one is inaccurate science so you’re always learning. And then I thought about your perception piece, and I was like ah, you know? And I actually have had these thoughts before, and this is kind of where I get a little… Like for my own self I get a little like, “Ooh boy!” You know, how do I manage this? Because then it goes back to your perception piece.
And I’m like, “Okay, it really is,” like you say, “not one reality.” And we really are creating our reality. That’s where the perception piece comes up. So it’s like we could go down a reality where science is king, which we kind of have been going down that for a while, or we could go down a reality where religion is king, which we’ve been down that avenue as well. But what really is king (laughs) is what we create. And I think I might have figured out a piece for myself in this, because sometimes I’m like, “Okay, if I’m creating it all, it’s really what I believe in, concentrate upon.” I’m like really doing it, which is a scary thought, to think that I am –
ELIAS: Why?
ANN: Because then the next thought is like, “Oh! I’m doing it all. What if I can’t do it the way I want to do it?” It’s not that scary, because I think I’m figuring out how to do it the way I want to do it. Like it’s all these pieces are starting to come together. Like I’m like, “Oh yeah, you can’t control it. You can’t force it.” It really is like directing yourself –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And then trusting. I mean, I’m really getting that. You direct yourself and then you just let it go. And there’s all kinds of things for that like “Let go, let God.” And I’ve also noticed it’s interesting to me, like I am beginning to think either religion or science, I mean it’s information, both of them.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: But I feel like it’s not the end-all, be-all. I feel like I trust myself more than religion or even science. Which I think is kind of a weird thing to say, because people study and they are very educated, and they may quote-unquote “know” more than me about a certain subject, but I also am finding myself just defaulting on “Ah, no matter what I’m told, no matter how much facts you have for me, if it doesn’t make sense to me, it doesn’t make sense to me.” Which, it leads me also to believe like “Okay, I am creating this. Because it doesn’t make sense, this is my reality. Somebody else it may make sense to, and they’re going to create THEIR reality.”
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: It’s just all confusing because supposedly we’re all interacting on a reality.
ELIAS: You are.
ANN: But it’s getting a little clearer.
ELIAS: You ARE all interacting.
ANN: But for myself, I mean right now I’m just like noticing things. And also, this is like a curious thing that I was noticing. It’s funny, because especially during the whole covid pandemic and it’s like science, like “I believe in science.” Science was like held up as the thing, and now I’ve also been noticing… It SEEMS to me – and maybe it’s just in my part of awareness – like people are like really having a resurgence in religion, being fervent about really… It almost feels to me like people are digging their heels in, whether it’s digging your heels in for science or whether you’re digging your heels in for religion.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And I’m wondering, are we digging our heels in, and are our heels being dug in, because it’s like we’re about to – I’m hoping – we’re about to realize…. Aaaah! That we’re hanging onto it so desperately because maybe we’re about to understand that perception really is creating our reality? And they’re not necessarily –
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: We always want to have the rules. We always want to know, like you said, are the origins. We want to know all these answers, and we look to either religion or science to give us these answers (chuckles), and the answers can change!
ELIAS: Are within you.
ANN: What did you say?
ELIAS: The answers are –
ANN: Are within me!
ELIAS: — within you.
ANN: Yes! I am getting that. And… there isn’t just one answer.
ELIAS: Correct. You are correct.
ANN: So, I am understanding. I mean, this all seems to be like coming up, you know, like this little bud opening, and this thing is like coming up and is coming up. I mean, I feel like parts of me have always danced around this maybe my whole life, but as the layers go and you get different understandings as it goes around and around, but I feel like it’s almost at a crest point… Yeah.
ELIAS: I would say that, in your terminology, you are right on track. And that is the reason that there is so much conflict happening in your world and so much is happening in relation to people moving in directions that seem very contrary to this shift, because this is the pushback.
ANN: Yes. I definitely feel it. Yeah.
ELIAS: Yes. This is the pushback before the acceptance. And you can see that even in other people, not necessarily in the great conflicts in your world or in politics or governments, but you can see it in other people around you, how they move in directions at this point of the idea of acceptance in certain directions is unconscionable to them.
ANN: Yes.
ELIAS: That there are things that they simply absolutely cannot accept and will not accept. That is being expressed considerably in relation to your present government.
ANN: Oh yeah, yeah.
ELIAS: That people are moving in that “Absolutely not!” direction.
ANN: Yeah. Which, I mean on one hand I feel like it could be beneficial, like keep it balanced because if there’s like something you don’t want to happen, if you say, “No, I don’t want this to happen, this isn’t going to happen,” I feel like it’s saying, “Yeah…” Like knowing what you don’t want is also knowing what you do want kind of thing.
ELIAS: Yes. Or it definitely leads you in that direction.
ANN: Yeah. But I also feel like people get stuck. You know, it’s sometimes easier to watch other people create their own reality than to watch myself create my own reality. I mean, sometimes I get it.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Because I’m like, “Oh, my god!” You see people, they get so dug in their heels and just not gonna let go, and you see their lives and you’re like, “Okay.”
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yesterday I was listening to this one gentleman. It was another podcast. This one gentleman, he had found God and was really kind of preachy. And I noticed within myself, “Ah!” An annoyance. I was like a little annoyed with him. And…
ELIAS: And what was your annoyance?
ANN: Well… Okay, just to be honest, and as I say this –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: There’s a part of me that also doesn’t want to think that I know better than somebody else, because I just know for me. But my annoyance was that he believed in something so wholeheartedly and he was so judgmental.
Oh! You know what is my annoyance, I think, that kind of comes through? It is like either religious people who think they’re so good, they sound the same but then they judge other people. Or they think what other people are doing is wrong. It’s the hypocritical thing that kinda annoys me. Or even like when you have these liberal people who think they are… You know, they think they’re so compassionate, but then I see them treating… It’s like okay, you’re compassionate unless you don’t like someone, and then you can go to the ends of the earth to hate them or to even want to murder them.
It’s this hypocritical thing I see on both sides. I think THAT annoys me. And I also… What annoys me is I feel like people get dug in on both sides, believing, “Oh, what I believe is the only way!” THAT annoys me! I mean like there’s a lot of ways.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: There’s a lot of ways, and it annoys me… I mean not too bad, but I’ve thought, “Okay, I’m being annoyed, I’m going to pay…” And then I thought, “Okay, I’m giving information about myself. I’m telling – “
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: “It’d be my feelings, I’m being annoyed.” But even right now telling you this, it does feel good to say I’m fucking annoyed by these people. But –
ELIAS: I very much understand. And it’s important for you to not dismiss that and to acknowledge it and accept it within yourself also.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah. Which I kind of thought, because when I was listening to this guy I’m like, “Okay, he has his… Accept the way he wants to live his life.” But I also knew that that was kinda like putting a Band-Aid over something that… I also knew that wasn’t genuine (laughs), so I thought, “All right. I feel annoyed, but I can still feel annoyed and accept him.” You know?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes, you can.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: That is the point of what I have expressed many times, that you can be accepting and not agree.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: And you can be accepting and still have your opinion, which can be different. That’s the point of accepting those feelings – or recognizing them, first, and evaluating what it is that you’re annoyed about, and then accepting that, because then you can genuinely accept the other individual and what they’re saying, and recognize that you don’t have to agree with them.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah.
ELIAS: Which is significant.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Because that is the beginning of genuinely accepting.
ANN: So I have these two quotes that I have recently happened upon that just kind of struck me, and I’ve been rolling them over in my head and they feel very empowering. It also feels like it’s the next step in moving me along.
And the first one was: “We do have the power to change the world. We have just been told that we don’t.” And I like that, because it’s like you say, one person has the power, and obviously we’re creating our reality, we do have the power to change the world, we’ve just been told we don’t. I like just hearing that over and over again, just restating or reinforcing how powerful we are.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And the other was kind of humorous to me. I mean, it sounds like it maybe could be rude or whatever, but it just struck me and I loved it and I was like, “Oh my god! This is just perfect.” It says, “The new closure is closing your mouth.” (Both laugh) And I so love that, because I tell myself… Because sometimes I want to tell people things, like “Oh, you’re doing this wrong,” or “You should be doing this,” or “You should be doing that.” And I’m like, “No, no, no.” And that is so freeing, because like I want to –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: I want to tell my mother… You know, she’ll complain. Like sometimes when people complain about something and you know… You complain, “Oh, I’m gaining weight.” Well, you’re eating all this food that you shouldn’t be eating, or that is helping you gain weight, or you keep telling yourself over and over and over and over that you’re going to do it, so that’s why you’re doing it. And I’ve had these conversations over and over with her, back and forth. And this is just one example. But you can see people saying something and not liking it, and you can also see why they’re creating it, and you want to tell them –
ELIAS: But the point is that they don’t see it, and no matter how much you tell them it, until they can see it themselves, until they can recognize what they’re doing – because there’s a reason that they’re doing what they’re doing. It may seem to you very obvious and very simple, but to them it’s NOT necessarily obvious and they DON’T see it. And in that, it’s helpful for you to think about times in which something was directly in front of your face and you couldn’t see it.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah.
ELIAS: And it’s the same with them, and although it may seem very obvious to you, there’s something underneath with them that they haven’t seen yet, that that’s the reason that something isn’t being successful. And their complaining about it, this is a significant piece. When people are complaining about something over and over and over again, it’s because something inside of them is actually searching for that reason, that piece that’s directly in front of them that they can’t see yet. And it doesn’t matter how many times you express to them what that piece is, they have to find it.
ANN: Yes. AND… Okay, so two things for that. One thing I want to say is why… Yes, I’m starting to realize that more and more, which is why the new closure is keeping your mouth closed. (Elias chuckles) It’s almost like a relief to me because it’s like, “Oh, not me.” Because one, it’s not my responsibility to do it in the first place, so that’s a relief. And second, it’s like okay, I could tell them and tell them forever, which can be exhausting or that does take energy, and they’re not going to hear it anyway so why even go there and expend all that energy?
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: And then the third thing I did notice, using the example with my “mothah,” my momma – my momma – (Elias chuckles), like energetically almost I’ve said to her, not about herself but I’ve said to her in conversations, “You know, I’m going to quit telling people what to do, and I’m going to be living my life” or whatever. My mom and I would have conversations, and we had nice conversations, but I was always like trying to quote-unquote “impart my wisdom.” (Elias chuckles) And I think she’s thought some of it was helpful, whatever. But you know, I’m like yeah, I just got to a place… just let her live her life the way she wants, and I’ll even say this to her. But I’m not even saying it to her anymore, like “Live your life.” I’m just being with her as like another human to another human, and not even… It’s hard to put into words, but not energetically investing in her success of what she wants –
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: AND, guess what?
ELIAS: And what I would say to you would be even more powerful is simply to move to a point in which you can trust her.
ANN: Ah! Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I love that. I love that.
ELIAS: Because you not trusting her is contributing to her continuing in the direction that she’s in.
ANN: Yes.
ELIAS: If you can trust her, your energy completely changes.
ANN: Yeah. I get that. And then just like I noticed when I was withdrawing the other energy and then I hadn’t seen her in a while and I came back, and she had already made some changes that she liked. I mean, she didn’t get there all the way, but she was like moving in that direction, and that was also proof to me. I mean, that IS proof to me, like I can trust her. She doesn’t need… She doesn’t need my help.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: (In a sing-song voice) “Nobody needs my help,” which is very freeing. (Elias chuckles). But it’s also about balance. It doesn’t mean that I’m not there to support somebody. It doesn’t mean that I [inaudible] –
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: – to engage with people.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: It just means that she’s on her journey and she can figure it out whichever way she wants. And I guess that applies to everybody in the whole world.
ELIAS: I agree.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Yes. And that is a tremendous step, my friend, a tremendous step.
ANN: Yeah. And it feels like (sighs) a load off.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: All right. Well, this is good. (Elias laughs) Let me see what else I… Oh! Okay, so another little empowering experience I had, or I just had this thought that drifted through and it did feel empowering. When we were visiting John’s parents in Huntington Beach, I got this really stiff neck. And I’m like, “Oh my god, it just really hurts.” And I thought to myself, “Oh, I just would like to have a massage and maybe loosen it up.” And then I thought, “Oh, it’d be nice if I could just have the massage right now.”
And in the past, it’s kind of been my experience, you know, you get a massage appointment, it’s like the next day they can take you or a couple of days, whatever. I thought, “I just want a massage right now.” So I just went online looking for massage places, and I see two. And I looked at this one and they had a weird website thing and I’m like, “Nah.” I didn’t want to bother with it. So then I looked at this other one and I go online, see if I can get an appointment. It’s like “Ah! There’s an appointment in 30 minutes!!” I was just like, “How strange, 30 minutes is exactly what I wanted. Thirty minutes.”
And I had just enough time to get there, got in for my appointment. Also, recently it’s been my experience that they’ve been between like $80 or $100 for an hour, and this appointment was only $69. And I’m thinking, “Hm, but I’m going with it.” And I said, “I’m here for an appointment.” The guy that’s at the front desk, he takes me in and says, “All right, face down, cover up.” And what’s also weird, usually the massage therapist comes in, and you lead them and they talk with you and you see them. I don’t know why this struck me as odd, but it also didn’t bother me.
But so I’m face down, and some guy comes in. I’ve never laid eyes on him before, don’t know anything about him, and I proceed to get one of the best massages of my life. Like I’ve had lots of massages, and there’s usually… It’s like maybe there’s a massage school and you get all these massages and they have their little routine and da-da-da. It was like a different massage than I’ve ever had before, but it was really… I was like, “This is like a really good massage. I mean this is the best massage.” And like even when I turned over, I still… You know, there was something over my eyes. I’ve never seen this person who is like laying their hands all over my body, and it’s still not bothering me. And I’m lying there and I’m thinking, “This is like the best massage I’ve ever had. I got it just in the time I wanted it, and it’s only costing me $69.”
And you know the thought that popped into my head was like, “You know what? This is a really whole big world out there, and there’s a lot of people who want to tell you the price of everything is going up. I just notice all of a sudden all of these limiting beliefs which I myself partake in upon occasion, or maybe upon many occasions. And I’m like, “All these limiting beliefs!” And I thought, “Well, I got the massage cheaper than I ever thought. I got it on the time when I could,” and then I’m like just trusting. You know, you would think okay… I didn’t even quote-unquote “vet” this guy with my eyes. I’m like, “Ah???” And I just thought, “You know what? Anything is possible.” And I was like, it’s a huge world with a lot of people, with a lot of possibilities!
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And anything is possible. And that was a very empowering experience.
ELIAS: I would say congratulations. That’s fabulous, my friend.
ANN: And there may not be anything more to this, but I’m just kind of like curious, just curiosity. And it doesn’t really bother me either way, but it’s just curious. Like why did I…? I mean, I could have seen him. I could have taken off my mask. But why didn’t I see this I guy? Why did I never lay eyes –
ELIAS: Likely because it wasn’t necessary. You wanted to receive a massage, and that was all. You didn’t want to necessarily interact with anyone. You wanted to be concentrating on you and what would help you to relax and be more comfortable, and that’s what you accomplished. And you didn’t need anything else.
Therefore in that, the manner in which it was delivered was actually perfect for what you wanted.
ANN: It absolutely was. And I was thinking the whole thing, I mean the whole experience was just exactly what I wanted. Hmmm.
ELIAS: Precisely. I’d say that that was excellent.
ANN: Okay.
Okay, one more thing (Elias laughs), and depending on how much time we have, then we’re going to just move into fun stuff. (Laughs)
Well, this is kind of funny because I even said to John… So I think about a little over a year now, I’ve been waking up sneezing. And I know you said when you sneeze, it’s this interdimensional… You go to other dimensions or connect with other dimensions.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: And it’s usually every morning, and then sometimes it’s during the day and sometimes it’s not during the day, and you know I’ve been kind of trying to pinpoint what the cause of this sneezing is. And I might have another avenue to go around. But I also have noticed it’s like the ringing in my ears has gotten louder, and I don’t know if it’s you that said this or somebody else has said this, but sometimes the ringing in your ear is an interdimensional communication. I heard that somewhere. So I’m like joking with John, it’s like, –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: “I must be having a lot of interdimensional experiences lately with all this sneezing and this ringing of the ears.” (Elias chuckles) So I kind of say that, you know as a joking, but then there’s another part of me that’s like, “All right, it would be nice to have this sneezing… You know, I don’t mind every once in a while, but I don’t need it in this consistency.” I’ve had ringing in my ears the whole life, but it would be nice to have it go down to the level it was before. And I’m kind of thinking, you know, you’ve got your ears, nose, eye, all of that is kind of all connected up there, and so something is going on up there. (Elias chuckles) So one part of me is like, “Okay, should I go down this path of still trying to figure out if it’s an allergy or something, da-da-da-da.”
And then I had heard somebody say to somebody too… It was this guy, he was talking… I guess it was a major league baseball player that was like in a slump for almost five months, he hadn’t had a hit and that was very unusual for him. And then his coach asked him, he says, “What if this was going to be the rest of your career, you would never have another hit again? Can you live with that?” And then at first his answer, “Aaaah! I don’t want to have a career like that!” But eventually he got to the point where he was like, “Yeah, I guess I could,” – which is obviously the acceptance. And then the guy goes out and then obviously it got him out of his little slump or whatever. And I thought, “Well, apply that here. What if I sneeze for the rest of my life, and I have the ears ringing for the rest of my life? Can I live with that?” And I was like, “Okay. Yeah, I guess I could. I can.” And so I kind of feel I’m at this little [inaudible] and maybe I will go back and forth and back and forth. Okay, do I… ? And I thought, “Okay, there is no control. I can’t CONTROL my way out of this, but I can direct my way out of it – or…
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: … around it.” So do I direct myself by doing more paying attention to clues? I think I got another clue. I’ve been going down the avenue of “Okay, maybe it’s food related.” But I have done all different food things, and even when we did this detox, completely different diet, and still the same thing. And then I just heard recently someone said that their daughter was allergic to Febreze, and I thought, “Oh, maybe I’m going down the wrong road. Maybe it has something to do with detergents, or a smell or a scent, maybe that.” So I might do a little exploration on that end. But the more fun way to do it would just be to say, “Eh, all right, it is what it is,” and just like not even worry about it anymore. And so –
ELIAS: (Laughs) I’d say that that is an interesting exploration.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: And –
ANN: Which one? The first or second?
ELIAS: Moving in the direction of exploring whether you can live with that or not.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah. I might –
ELIAS: And in that, it also gives you another freedom in that you’re moving in that direction but you can always change it.
ANN: Yes. And it could be something like we were talking about earlier, something right in front of my face, right in front of my face. Which is funny, because my nose –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: — is right on top of my face. So I’m kind of like, “Okay, yeah, I can move in either direction.” But it’s also like all this trying to figure out, trying to figure out. You know, maybe I’ll figure it out faster if I don’t try to figure it out, which would be the avenue of living with it, you know? Anyhow. All right.
ELIAS: Yes. [Inaudible]
ANN: We will see how that unfolds. (Elias chuckles)
And I wrote notes down from things that I’ve heard along the way, but I’m not sure…
ELIAS: Such as?
ANN: All right. My question to you is, were the Sumerians visited by extraterrestrials? And did they impart agricultural knowledge and writing and the urban structure and such upon them?
ELIAS: (Pause) No.
ANN: Okay. All right. (Elias laughs)
When there was the transition from hunters and gatherers to agriculture –
ELIAS: Yes?
ANN: —and the cultivation of grains and stuff, was that an abrupt occurrence? Was that like a gradual occurrence, or was just like some knowledge somehow imparted? Was it a more abrupt transition?
ELIAS: I’d say in those terms, yes, it was more abrupt, because it was fueled by individuals in different areas recognizing that seeds – or they didn’t necessarily name them as seeds, but seeds created trees. And if a seed such as an acorn could create something so large as a tree, then they could actually take seeds and then cultivate them and grow them.
ANN: So that would have been an observational knowledge? Not like… Like sometimes I’m wondering if when… You know, there’s all these stories about past civilizations being visited by extraterrestrials and imparting knowledge, or you know, having sex with the native people and having a new breed of human, I’m wondering –
ELIAS: No, no, no, no, no.
ANN: Is that more allegory to represent…? So you say extraterrestrials have never visited the earth that I’m living on, correct?
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: So when these stories of extraterrestrials – or they could be stories of angels or whatever – is that where people have gotten knowledge somehow and not… not like conventional sources? And that’s why these stories pop up? Or were there just different civilizations that were… like they were more advanced civilizations, and then we’re like, “Ah! How could they be so dense way back when?” And that’s our explanation.
ELIAS: Clarify that recognizing that extraterrestrials have never engaged with all of you in any time framework, then are you asking if humans have at times gathered information by energetically connecting with extraterrestrials? Or are you asking a different question?
ANN: Or themselves. I guess it all kind of makes sense, if we’re all interconnected and we all have –
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: — access to information. Okay. Oh, all right. It’s all starting to make sense now. So this whole extraterrestrial thing is kind of like religion and science, right? It’s an explanation.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANN: Interesting.
ELIAS: It’s a construct.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
ELIAS: A reason why.
ANN: Yeah. Okay. Oh my god. You know what? I just felt more empowered all of a sudden. Wow.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Excellent!
ANN: Okay. Yeah.
ELIAS: Because in all of these scenarios, you’re giving your power away to some other source, instead of keeping it in relation to yourself.
ANN: Yes! That was another commonality that I had noticed between science and religion. On both, you give your power away. Okay.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Quick, quick question: Is Golden of the Elias group, is he an oracle?
ELIAS: (Pause) No.
ANN: Okay.
ELIAS: But he does have a considerable talent, if he would allow himself to use it.
ANN: Yeah, he does. A talent in what?
ELIAS: He has a talent in relation to energy exchanges. He also has a talent in association with understanding philosophies and therefore being open to other energies and ideas. I would say that that also makes him more – or could make him – more accepting of differences. It’s simply a matter of what he applies.
ANN: Okay. Makes sense.
All right, here is a question I can’t even remember why I wrote this down or what this group is, but I’m going to ask it and then I’m going to google this group again. Or… (Elias chuckles) my endless curiosity about who these elites are: Are the elites part of the Bilderberg group? [1]
ELIAS: Ahh, that is quite intuitive, my friend.
ANN: Ooh! (Laughs)
ELIAS: That they are part of, yes. Or the group is part of them.
ANN: Oh my god, that’s my first hit! Woohoo!
ELIAS: (Laughs) I would say that that was… that was a leap.
ANN: Wow! I don’t even remember writing that down. Maybe my past self went in and wrote that down, but hey. Wow.
ELIAS: And a group that not many are aware of, although the group is not the entirety of them, but they are a part.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: But they are a part, yes.
ANN: Okay.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Congratulations!
ANN: (Laughs) Okay. We have probably about five minutes left. So to encourage me or give me a little subtle, subtle push in the directions that I know I’m already moving in, but just to maybe clear the path for me a little way, a little bit, would you have any words, knowledge and wisdom to impart upon me about me creating my own reality? And I would say, like if I had a hiccup, I just think the more experiences I give myself, then obviously it’ll be easier to understand. And actually, it used to be more of a hiccup than it is now. It’s almost really light now, but it would –
ELIAS: Meaning what?
ANN: Okay, meaning… But there’s maybe, maybe still a part of me that it’s like, “Okay. If I am creating it all, that just feels like a whole big responsibility, Elias. It’s so much easier to have these outside sources, but I know these outside sources I can use them, but I don’t have to depend upon them.
ELIAS: Of course. Yes.
ANN: So just guidance –
ELIAS: And why would you think that it is so much of a responsibility? Because you’re not responsible for anyone but you.
ANN: I know. It’s a responsibility for me. Like if I want to do something like… Well, oh, I know what it is. It is because… Okay, so I believe like what you believe in, like it’s the whole thing about, okay, mass consciousness. Or I believe if I take an aspirin, my headache will disappear.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And I’ll take an aspirin and my headache disappears. So that seems to me –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: That’s easy. That’s easy creating. But what if I wanted to be… Okay, let’s just say like I want to create the sneezing and my ear ringing to stop. But… Actually, maybe I do know the answer to that too. So maybe I know all this stuff. I don’t know. (Both laugh)
Oh good. BUT – okay, let’s say I want to create something, but I’m like, “Oh, am I going to have the ability to create what I want?” There’s still maybe a little hesitation or a little doubt if I do have the ability to create what I want. Obviously, let’s say if I’m creating everything, I know I’m a masterful creator because I’m creating them. I’m creating everything I’m experiencing. I’ll give you that, but help me smooth the way to make it clear for me to have confidence. And yet I can and am and will and have and will continue to create what I want, and to understand how I’m doing it and to be aware of it, and to have it just be easy and flow in a natural movement. Anything that you can impart?
ELIAS: That’s all the point, my friend, that all of what you are saying and communicating to myself is precisely the point of your movement in why you are becoming more self-aware.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: That’s why.
ANN: All right. So basically, I’m doing it, and it’s just a matter –
ELIAS: You are.
ANN: – of practicing and exploring more and kind of having fun with it, and that’s just it.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Yeah. Huh!
ELIAS: That is the point.
[The timer for the session rings]
ANN: Well, how about them apples, Elias? How about them apples?
ELIAS: (Laughs) “Them apples,” another great expression. (Both laugh)
ANN: All right. Well, I do think I heard Mary’s alarm clock. It’s been wonderful talking (Elias laughs) with you. I –
ELIAS: And you also, my dear friend, and quite an interesting conversation. But I would say in all of that, in all of your questions, you’re moving in what you would term to be the right direction.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah.
ELIAS: Most definitely.
ANN: All right. And now, I’m off to go see some redwoods, which I’m very excited about. I’m going to get some tree energy.
ELIAS: Ahh! And allow yourself the opportunity to feel these giants.
ANN: Oh, I am very excited about that. Just when we were driving down the Oregon coast and there was a tree. They weren’t redwoods, but they were really tall trees, all of them, and I could just FEEL it. There’s no other word than majestic. So I am going to feel these trees –
ELIAS: Yes, they are very majestic, and glorious.
ANN: And glorious. All right, Elias, I love you, I love you, I love you and I appreciate you. (Elias laughs) And thank you. And, shall we meet again?
ELIAS: I would say to you, remember when you are in the presence of those giants that you were part of creating them.
ANN: Ahhh. Okay.
ELIAS: And that’s how majestic and glorious and powerful YOU are.
ANN: And I just got leg shivers. Ooh, nice.
ELIAS: And I express such tremendous love to you, my friend, and friendship as deep as the roots of those giants.
ANN: Ooh. Thank you, Elias.
ELIAS: Until our next meeting, au revoir.
ANN: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour 3 minutes)
[1] The Bilderberg Meeting (also known as the "Bilderberg Group," "Bilderberg Conference" or "Bilderberg Club") is an annual off-the-record forum established in 1954 to foster dialogue between Europe and North America. The group's agenda, originally to prevent another world war, is now defined as bolstering a consensus around free market Western capitalism and its interests around the globe. Participants include political leaders, experts, captains of industry, finance, academia, numbering between 120 and 150. Attendees are entitled to use information gained at meetings, but not attribute it to a named speaker (known as the Chatham House Rule). The group states that the purpose of this is to encourage candid debate while at the same time maintaining privacy, but critics from a wide range of viewpoints have called it into question, and it has provoked conspiracy theories from both the left and right. (Source: Wikipedia)
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