Exploring the Subjective Awareness
Topics:
“Being the Ocean”
“Meditation”
“Bridging the Objective and the Subjective through Dreams”
Thursday, June 12, 2025 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Julie (Fontine)
(Audio begins partway through session)
JULIE: Okay. So Deborah brought this up; she asked me. We were talking about being the ocean, which is something that you had mentioned to me quite a while ago, ten years ago, about me being the ocean. And I had kind of moved out of that expression some, and I am focusing on being back there. Could you tell me how I am progressing in that?
ELIAS: I’d say very well, because one of the main components of being the ocean is depth. And that depth influences the breadth and the currents that occur. And I would say that the oceans are always expanding. They don’t expand quickly, but they’re always expanding and they’re always steady in their expansion. I would say that it’s definitely something that you are maintaining well and continue to move in that direction of exploration.
And in that, I would say that right now and moving forward, you’re exploring those currents. And in that, remember that the ocean also creates squalls and has storms at times, but that’s all natural. That’s all part of the movement and part of the current. But also remember that: What creates the major swells with the ocean?
JULIE: What creates it?
ELIAS: Yes.
JULIE: Is that the wind? Or that’s the moon? I don’t know which one. (Both chuckle)
ELIAS: The weather—
JULIE: The weather.
ELIAS: — creates the significant swells with the oceans.
Now; what I would say to you is, that’s significant to be aware of, because the weather is outside of the ocean. Therefore it’s significant to be aware of that and then notice that in your life, that is very similar. That the outside sources around you at times – not always, because the ocean is calm for the most part – but at times, the outside influences do create swells. And in that, the storms create responses with the ocean and that’s natural.
Therefore in that, it’s also important to be aware of what lives within the ocean. Because I have expressed many, many times that there are countless yous of you. And in that, that is a metaphor for all of those yous of you, all of the things that are contained within the ocean and in that, the diversity in that, that there are so many different expressions and so many different directions that are expressed within the ocean. Therefore I would say that I’d be acknowledging of you, my friend. You’re moving quite well.
JULIE: In the diversity of myself?
ELIAS: Yes.
JULIE: Yeah.
ELIAS: I’d say that that’s being explored more and more.
JULIE: Okay. (Pause) So Debbie asked me to create a meditation perhaps on being the ocean. And so I’ve been thinking about it, and since I didn’t quite know exactly what you meant when you said it to me, although it used to kind of be a meditation, an object of my meditation in that I would just imagine that I’m the whole ocean, all the water, everything happening in it, all the currents, whatever, and just kind of being focused on my awareness of my awareness and my subjective, inner subjective as well as the wideness of everything around me, plus, you know, my body, everything happening in my body. So it felt deep and wide. It feels deep and wide to me at the same time.
ELIAS: It is.
JULIE: Yeah. And so I’ve just been thinking about how I can guide that kind of a meditation. And if I were going to do it, I would first always like to bring the attention to the body and to being aware of the whole body all at once, and the inner feelings of the body and the inner space of the body, and then kind of moving to the space around the body, the empty space, and kind of merging those two together. What would you say was happening with that action?
ELIAS: What would you define as the empty space with the body?
JULIE: So I would say the empty space of the room, but that’s also, it’s like a metaphor for emptiness and everything that’s not apparent, being just open. It’s an open… for me, it creates an attitude of openness and just being open to spaciousness.
ELIAS: I’d say that’s excellent. And then you have the density of the body itself.
JULIE: And so bringing that attitude of openness to the body, the awareness is very open. It could go anywhere in the body, into any of the systems or functions and feelings or physicality. So bringing that openness to the body. And then being aware of that awareness which can go deep, it can go wide, it can go anywhere. It can go… (pause). So it’s… I mean, my meditation would just basically be designed to bring both of those things together at once.
ELIAS: I’d say also and including the currents.
JULIE: The emotions?
ELIAS: That could be. Yes.
JULIE: What else would you include in the currents?
ELIAS: I’d say that all of the different systems in your body are currents.
JULIE: The breathing, the skin. Are you talking about the circulatory system, the digestive system?
ELIAS: All of it.
JULIE: Yeah.
ELIAS: Yes.
JULIE: Yeah, those are all currents. Uh-huh. The nervous system.
ELIAS: Correct.
JULIE: And so, if you were doing this meditation, would you mention all of those?
ELIAS: I would.
JULIE: Okay.
ELIAS: Because most people don’t necessarily think of all of those things themselves. Therefore that is the reason that people enjoy guided meditations, because there is someone present that is guiding them through every aspect of the meditation. And therefore, that’s the teaching element. And let me express to you: people require that, for the most part.
JULIE: Well, I sure did. That’s why I think it is a benefit.
ELIAS: I agree.
JULIE: Yeah.
ELIAS: It takes time for most people to learn how to do it themself, how to structure themself, how to guide themself. And I would say that this is the tremendous benefit to having someone in your role.
JULIE: Mm-hm. Okay. Well I’m glad to know that you are supportive of that too, as beneficial to others and to myself.
ELIAS: Most definitely.
JULIE: Okay. I really like it when I do the meditation along with them, and then I have experiences too of… Different kinds of experiences, as I’m empathically aware of the group and myself. I enjoy that.
ELIAS: Definitely. I would definitely agree. And this is yet again another example of how the teacher learns from the students, because you gain also.
JULIE: Mm-hm. I do. I do. Definitely.
So we talked about the currents in the body, and then the openness and the awareness of the awareness itself. The guided, the prompt that I give for becoming aware of awareness is that I’ll say, “Observe an object in the room, like look at the wall or whatever, and notice the awareness that is aware of that object. And now close your eyes and notice that the awareness is still aware.”
ELIAS: Correct.
JULIE: And people have had an aha moment, the same way I did when I heard that instruction and followed it. And would you say that that is… that’s it?
ELIAS: I would say that’s excellent.
JULIE: Yeah. Okay.
ELIAS: It’s an excellent example.
JULIE: Mm-hm. And then another prompt that people… that I’ve learned from others that helped, was: “Notice your attention is looking outward, at objects, even at feelings. They’re outward. And images, and even thoughts and words are an outward expression. But now turn that attention 180° in the other direction, towards the attention itself.” And for me, I experience… My awareness brightens a lot when I do that. I experience… Suddenly I’m aware of my attention attending. (Chuckles) That action of attending, and it brightens. And what would you say about that one?
ELIAS: I would say that that also is excellent, because it’s very similar to what you experience when you are lucid dreaming. In that, being aware of yourself and observing at the same time, you’re correct, that is an excellent word for it, that it brightens your awareness.
JULIE: Mm-hm. And then as far as going deeper into the subjective awareness, I would say that it’s almost like going into the void or emptiness or just this openness, that is not exactly perceivable at all but I’m alert and reaching for it. (Chuckles) And when I’m doing that, things, automatically, ideas pop in. It’s like the whole process is invisible, but things happen that are different. Like I know more of myself in new ways from doing that.
ELIAS: That’s an interesting explanation.
JULIE: (Laughs) Well, how would you explain going into the subjective?
ELIAS: I would say that everyone’s experience is different, but I would say that this is an interesting perspective of looking at it as a void or a nothingness or an emptiness. And in that, still generating more clarity by reaching for it.
Now; as I’ve expressed to several people already, I will be discussing this in our group interaction in the next season. But in that, I will be approaching it from a direction that most people can understand or relate to, and that would be first through dreams. That because dreams have imagery that is created by the objective awareness, it’s in a manner of speaking a bridge between the recognition of both. Not between both, because there’s no bridge that is necessary between both because they’re intricately connected. And therefore I would say that it’s more a matter of how an individual pays attention and how they can begin to recognize the expression and the movement of their own self subjectively. And the easiest direction to address to is through dreams.
Now; I would say that that doesn’t only have to do with night dreams. It can also be daydreams. And in that, it’s a matter of being able to recognize or identify the interplay of those two awarenesses and how they are expressed in harmony. They’re not expressing the identical same, because they have different functions, just as your lungs and your heart are intimately connected but they have different functions.
In this, I would say that it’s a matter of being able to begin to see that interconnectedness, to see that harmony between the two and to know that one doesn’t come first and the other follows. That’s not how it functions, but that they’re both moving at the same time. They’re simply moving in different expressions. And that they are influencing of each other.
In that, because people are so completely familiar with their objective awareness and the imagery of their objective awareness, I would say that that is a good direction to begin with, because they know what that is. They know what their senses are. They know what their senses do. They are aware of what their objective awareness does, at least to a degree. Because I would say that there are still many individuals that are somewhat confused with perception. But this is a part of it, is the objective and the subjective awarenesses, they are the film that threads through the projector.
And in that, I would say that if people can be looking at imagery, they’re more comfortable with that than looking at something that seems entirely foreign and unknown.
JULIE: Well, I don’t… Yeah. I don’t do any meditations about reaching into the void really.
ELIAS: I very much understand.
JULIE: I mean, I don’t do that with other, with my guidance. I just do that for myself. Yeah.
ELIAS: Yes.
JULIE: Yeah.
ELIAS: And I would say that that is a very interesting perspective. And obviously you have become comfortable with that and have learned how to use it.
JULIE: Mm-hm. Yeah.
ELIAS: I would say that there are a lot of people that have difficulty with anything that doesn’t include imagery. Therefore that would be the direction that I would begin with, but that doesn’t mean that you have to begin with that.
JULIE: Right. Yeah. Well, I usually try to include… Well, you know, if we’re tuning into the body, you kind of visualize the systems as you’re going along. That’s something more concrete and also very, just as fulfilling I believe. To tune into—
ELIAS: Yes.
JULIE: — the body with a lot of awareness can be very blissful.
ELIAS: I would agree.
JULIE: The deeper, the deeper we go into it, it can be very blissful. As far as imagery, yeah, I don’t do a lot of visualization with my meditation, but…
ELIAS: I understand.
JULIE: Yeah. But dreams, dreams are different. If someone actually has the experience of a dream, then they do have that imagery already to look at, so yeah, I can see that.
ELIAS: Yes.
JULIE: Yeah. It’s just a different aspect of looking at the subjective awareness.
ELIAS: I would agree. And I would be very acknowledging of you in that.
JULIE: Yeah. And when you say they’re the same thing or they move quite in harmony, not one before the other, I get an inner visualization of… Like it’s the shape of my attention somehow. It’s like almost like a mold that… or a guideline of my attention, that is drawing this objective imagery to represent it. Both in waking and in sleeping dreams.
ELIAS: That actually makes sense. Yes.
JULIE: Okay. (Chuckles) Well…
ELIAS: And I would say that this is all excellent explorations that you can be sharing with other individuals in relation to guiding them through different experiences and through meditation. And that is also a benefit to moving in a direction of opening to that subjective awareness, which is challenging for most individuals.
JULIE: Yeah. If you think about just all of the people who have never even heard of Elias or Seth or… You know, even the Abraham people, they don’t know much about subjective awareness, except that they do observe their feelings, which are the subjective communication.
ELIAS: But they don’t necessarily know that.
JULIE: Right. Well, they call it the inner being. They say your inner being knows everything that you desire already and is guiding you with feelings. Almost like a yes and no, because if your feelings are – in the moment, if they’re uplifted or happy, then you’re going in the direction of your desire. What would you say about that?
ELIAS: I would not necessarily entirely agree with that, because your desire moves—
JULIE: Regardless.
ELIAS: It can move independently of good or bad feelings.
JULIE: Right. I noticed that. Yeah. (Laughs)
ELIAS: And many times, moving in the direction of your desire can actually be uncomfortable, until you move through it and can see what you’ve done.
JULIE: Right. Yeah.
ELIAS: Therefore good feelings are not necessarily an indicator that you’re moving in the direction of your desire.
JULIE: That’s probably more wants, objective wants.
(The timer for the end of the session rings)
ELIAS: It might be an indicator that you’re moving in the direction of what you want.
JULIE: Right. Yeah.
ELIAS: But that’s different.
JULIE: Yeah. Okay. Well, darn! Our time’s up. (Both laugh) Okay. I hate to see you go. (Both laugh)
ELIAS: But I’m never actually gone. (Laughs)
JULIE: That’s right. Okay. Will you encourage…? I was going to ask you about nurturing and encouraging my grandchildren. So will you give me some little blue light specials about that? (Both laugh)
ELIAS: What I would say is: pay attention to their natural expressions, and where their attention moves to. And in that, nurture that.
JULIE: Okay. Thank you, Elias.
ELIAS: You’re very welcome, my friend. I shall greatly be looking forward to our next meeting, and I will continue to be supportive and encouraging of you in all of these directions of what you are doing in being the ocean. (Chuckles)
JULIE: Mm. Thank you, Elias.
ELIAS: You are very welcome.
JULIE: All right.
ELIAS: In tremendous love and in precious friendship—
JULIE: I love you too.
ELIAS: Au revoir.
JULIE: Thank you. Bye!
(Excerpt ends after 35 minutes)
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