Victim / Perpetrator Energy: Holding Something Outside of You Responsible for Your Feelings
Topics:
“Victim and Perpetrator Energy: Holding Something Outside of You Responsible for Your Feelings”
“Sociopaths and Psychopaths”
“Daydreaming vs. Imagination”
“Sensual Meditation: The Subjective and the Objective”
“Masculine and Feminine Energy”
“Definition of an Artist”
Friday, January 3, 2025 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Ann (Vivette)
ELIAS: Good morning!
ANN: Good morning! (Elias laughs) Happy New Year!
ELIAS: And how shall we begin, my dear friend?
ANN: I have lots of things I want to talk to you about today.
ELIAS: Ah!
ANN: I know! My curiosity is just all over the place. (Elias laughs) Well, the first thing I guess I want to talk about, I had heard another channeler, maybe an intuitive guy or whatever. He does these intuitive readings of every month, and he said that in January, one of themes would be letting go of the perpetrator-victim scenario.
ELIAS: Ah!
ANN: He had even mentioned – and I’ve noticed this ad nauseum, and probably everybody has – like in Hollywood you always have good guy-bad guy movies, and that’s a very popular theme in Hollywood. I mean, it’s everywhere. It’s like rampant. Prior to Christmas they had this Christmas show. (Laughs) I’m like, “Oh my god! I hope there aren’t children who watch this.” You take the magic of Christmas and you turn it into evil, the good has then this whole perpetrator fighting violence. I’m like, “You know, I’m just really over this whole theme.”
So here this guy pops up and he’s like, “Yeah, [inaudible] other themes,” so I thought, “Oh, THAT would be nice. I would love to be letting go of this perpetrator-victim dynamic, or these energies. And then I was thinking about when Mary had said to me a while back that when you’re around victim energy, you sometimes feel like you’re doing something wrong, or you haven’t done enough, or you… Something clicked when she said that, and it also made it easier. It’s kind of like, “Ohhh, NOW I see what’s going on.” Because in the scenario that I was in, I was thinking, “I am doing a lot, and I am…” Like I would tell myself, “I am pretty good, and I’ve been a very good person and I’ve been very helping and I’ve been very supportive and I’ve been very nurturing.” But I still was starting to feel like “Oh my god, I was not good enough, or I didn’t DO enough.” And when Mary brought up that point about when you’re around victim energy, I thought, “Oh my god.” So it was kind of a double thing that I realized.
First of all I was aware, since I’m around that energy, I’m like okay that I was feeling like that. And then I also became aware that I was holding this other person responsible for how I was feeling! You know?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANN: So I was like, “Yes! I got it!” It just like clicked! I was like, “Oh my god!”
So anyhow, that like clicked-clicked, so I was thinking, “Well, what is this perpetrator energy? When you’re around a perpetrator, what is the energy that THEY’RE expressing or you’re receiving, or even then you become expressing? Because when I’m around victim energy, then all of a sudden I was expressing victim energy. So when you’re around a perpetrator, the obvious one would be not to feel safe – obviously, perpetrator or aggression. I was trying to put my finger on it. Like when you’re around a perpetrator… I don’t want to even say “a perpetrator;” I should say “perpetrator energy,” because I kind of just want to call it that.
ELIAS: Very similar. It’s very similar.
ANN: Yeah!
ELIAS: Because they come from the same thing.
ANN: Yeah!
ELIAS: And in that, an individual or an energy that is being expressed as a perpetrator is also looking at outside and holding… and holding something outside of you responsible for what you feel and what you experience.
ANN: Yeah. And I thought that it’s kind of all about control.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: You see, this is also what I have expressed many times, that control or lack of control, it’s the same thing. And in that, the perpetrator is expressing what they perceive as control, and the victim is expressing what they perceive as a lack of control.
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: But it’s all the same.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah, it’s the same coin, just you know, two different sides of the same coin.
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: So, I was very… I do know –
ELIAS: What had piqued your curiosity in relation to that?
ANN: Well, that necessarily… It piqued my curiosity in the fact that when I become aware of it looking… I guess I’m just realizing it’s not necessarily piquing my curiosity, but it just feels easier for some reason. And that feels easier because I kind of saw it, like when Mary pointed it out I saw it, so it feels easier not to get entangled in it and just to let go of it. And… And I guess if there was curiosity about it, it’s like okay, so when you don’t have the victim-perpetrator energy, what is the…? You know, what energy to stand in? I mean, there’s a lot of different energies you could stand in, so to speak, but just allowance is the big one that comes up.
ELIAS: And also being in your OWN energy rather than paying attention to outside energies.
ANN: Ah, yeah. You know, as the other –
ELIAS: In either of the victim or perpetrator energies, the individual is paying attention to outside energy and holding that responsible. But if you are NOT in either of those energies, then you would be paying attention to your own energy and being empowered by that.
ANN: Mm-hm. I like that: being empowered by my own energy. And then I also kind of realized, like if you tell someone, “Don’t care so much about what other people think,” most people would say, “I DON’T care about what other people think about me.” But, I would also venture to say that’s not true – I mean obviously not for everybody, but for a lot of people – but the reason I say that is because I realized when I was becoming the victim of the victim, or letting myself, I was like, “Oh, the only reason I’m like being because I care about how she’s perceiving me. And –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: I was like, “Oh, so I guess I do care about (laughs) what people think about me. Oh my god!” And that also is the same thing that… Like just what you said, like I’m focusing on them; I’m not focusing on my own energy when I’m doing that.
ELIAS: Correct. [Inaudible]
ANN: So when you’re caring about what other people think, even if you DON’T think you’re caring about it, there’s like clues that will let you know that you do care. And it almost seems to be even like, “Yeah!”
Anyhow, so I actually feel pretty good about that. I feel like I’ve… I feel like I have more of a grasp and more of an understanding of the dynamics at play, which I feel like allows me more of a choice, a CONSCIOUS choice on how I want to participate.
ELIAS: I very much agree, and I’m tremendously acknowledging of you. Well done!
ANN: Thank you. And so, the curiosity… Now this is more of a curiosity thing. I’m not even sure what question I have in this.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANN: But I just think it would be fun to talk to you about it. But I remember a while back, a long time ago, you and I had a conversation where for some reason the topic of sociopaths came up. And I remember you describing sociopaths, or sociopathic behaviors, in such a way that I was like, “Wow, that sounds really nice.” And I’m like, “What’s the downside of being a sociopath?” And you had said, “Well, then you don’t have access to an avenue of communication.“
So I remember all that, and then I was… I’m listening to a book written by a sociopath, and she obviously expresses a part where she had things build up in her, from what she’s saying, because she doesn’t have the feelings. She says she feels happiness and she feels anger, but she doesn’t feel sadness or remorse or guilt. And then when something builds up, that’s when she has to do things to release this buildup. Like when she was a kid she stabbed another kid in the neck with a pencil, or she would break into empty houses or sit there, and when she sat inside these empty houses, then she could find some peace, or…
Anyhow, she did different things, and she has gotten to the point, she went to college and studied psychology and has investigated a lot of this on her own and has learned ways to cope with it. One, like when she was a child she used her mother to let her know what was right or wrong, and now she has… Then she had her boyfriend or husband, and she has people that she kind of uses as the guide, or to keep her… I don’t know if these are her words, but what I remember like keep her in line, so to speak. But when she’s talking about it, I’m listening and I’m thinking, “This does sound kind of nice. It sounds like a nice… “
Because… Like we, who feel feelings, we have the thing like following, we’ll follow our feelings. If you get anxious and then you follow the anxiety, it can get worse. And I’m like well, it would kind of be nice. She calls it her superpower, actually. (Laughs) You don’t have to worry about anxiety and you don’t have to worry about guilt – and you have said guilt is one of the most useless emotions you can have –
ELIAS: Correct.
ANN: You don’t have to worry about anxiety, you don’t have to worry about guilt. I’m like wow, it kind of seems like it might be easier to live life like that because sometimes emotions, when you start following your feelings you get trapped in them and you don’t think clearly. And I know you’ve talked a lot about this, about how not to follow feelings. And I was like wow, that WOULD be nice. (Elias laughs)
But then I was thinking all right, so she would do these things, she would act out. And I’m also thinking, well maybe our emotions are a way to release this energy. And was that energy, like, building in her? I mean obviously I don’t know much about psychopaths, just what this book says, but does the energy build up somehow and she doesn’t have an emotional release valve so she has to act out in these other ways and that’s how she releases this energy?
So that’s just thoughts that have been floating around in my head, just curiosity thoughts, and I just kind of want to hear what you think about that.
ELIAS: First of all, make a distinction. Are you speaking about an individual that is a sociopath or a psychopath?
ANN: Well, she calls herself a sociopath, and that’s also interesting. So, what… ? I have in my mind the distinction between them. A sociopath, they don’t necessarily have the emotions, or all the emotions, but they can understand them at some level? But psychopaths cannot understand emotions at all. Is that… ? I don’t know. That’s just some conclusion I came to. I have no idea if it’s accurate or not.
ELIAS: A psychopath is incapable of empathy.
ANN: Oh, empathy.
ELIAS: Yes. They don’t feel it, they don’t understand it, they don’t express it, because it’s a missing component from their psyche. A sociopath can feel empathy to a degree, but a much, much lesser degree than what you would term to be a normal individual. Sociopaths are individuals that have difficulty with identity. Therefore, they derive a significant portion of their identity from outside sources, from observing and experimenting with different expressions that they see other people generate. Much of their experience in life is about what they observe and what they glean from outside sources, that they’re not actually, in a manner of speaking, born with those expressions. And in that, they don’t automatically understand the correlation between feelings and emotion. The emotion piece is something that they are somewhat removed from. They have feelings, but they don’t connect with the statement about those feelings.
I would also say that they generate a considerable amount of their life that is somewhat lived vicariously.
ANN: Oh!
ELIAS: And therefore they… they don’t feel that sense of responsibility to themself or to others, because they ARE living vicariously and therefore it’s not something that they actually connect with.
Now, a psychopath is different from a sociopath because they have no empathy at all. They generally are intelligent individuals that learn from observation around them. They learn what’s appropriate and what isn’t. They are definitely expressing in a direction in which they want to blend, therefore they pay attention to what appears to be acceptable behavior and what appears not to be, and therefore they don’t stand out. And when they act out, they act out in manners that they believe or they perceive as secretive, even though it’s not. Because generally when they act out, it’s violent and it’s very obvious and it’s (chuckles) not at all secret.
But in that, they have very strong compulsions in relation to acting out, and their compulsions for acting out are considerably destructive. They also, because they have no empathy and because they definitely don’t make a connection, similar to a sociopath, between the feelings and the statements – although I will express a side comment about that in difference to a sociopath, is that the psychopath, even though they’re not making a connection of self-awareness about the link between the feeling and the statement about what they’re doing, they actually are paying somewhat of attention to what they’re doing; not what it means, but what they are doing, because that’s what allows them that release of energy.
Now, for THEM it’s a physical release of energy. This is the reason that many – not all, but many – psychopaths generate a release of energy in relation to sexual expression. That doesn’t mean that they are engaging a sexual act; they might not be – many times they’re not – but that they are deriving a sexual release from the act that they are engaging, the destruction that they are engaging. Because they require something intense, which is the reason that sometimes it leads them in the direction of very violent acts.
Now, in that, there is a similarity in relation to remorse, EXCEPT that the psychopath can emulate it. They can copy, because they are very concentrated on what is deemed to be appropriate and inappropriate behavior. Therefore, they will express – let us say if the individual generates violent actions such as murder and they’re caught, they will express that they’re sorry and they will express remorse. Is that actually genuine? No. It’s what they know they’re supposed to do.
ANN: Would a sociopath express remorse?
ELIAS: Not necessarily. They also don’t have that filter, but they aren’t as concerned with appearance. They’re not as concerned with what is appropriate and what isn’t appropriate. They are to a degree, in relation to being able to function in society, but not to the degree of a psychopath, because the psychopath wants to blend. They want to be hidden. A sociopath doesn’t necessarily think in that direction. They don’t necessarily care about that. They’re more focused on themself and what they’re doing.
This is one of the reasons that many times a sociopath can either have narcissistic tendencies or they can be a narcissist also, because they’re –
ANN: Because they don’t care.
ELIAS: Because they’re so focused on themself. The psychopath is very focused on outside sources.
ANN: Really. So the sociopath is focused on the self. See, that sounds like a superpower, just to be focused on yourself.
ELIAS: In one capacity, yes. I would say that there are challenges to that, because it does create difficulties in relating to other people.
ANN: Yeah. So if everything is interconnected, as you always like to say (Elias chuckles), without your empathic sense, would it inhibit you in realizing that or experiencing that? Would it?
ELIAS: Would it inhibit you in experiencing what?
ANN: Interconnectedness – or understanding interconnectedness.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Yeah. Huh. (Pause) Interesting.
ELIAS: Therefore that would be another challenge.
ANN: Let me see. I had questions about it, but sometimes I lose my questions. I should write all these questions… Oh! The other thing I liked about this book on tape that this sociopath was reading… I told you before, I love to get inside other people’s heads. I like to read memoirs and such. And as I’m listening to her, it’s becoming clear that she doesn’t… Like, it’s almost like the way she’s wired is so different than me that it almost becomes easier to accept behaviors that are maybe not behaviors that I would engage in. And still I’m not saying… You know I know, we also have our preferences… But it just makes it easier to accept. There’s this part of me sometimes when you want people to understand you or want people to understand the point you’re making –
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Because you’re like, “Ah, if they could understand it then they would know.” You know: They would think like me.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: And I’m like, “Oh my god! They are not ever going to understand it. They don’t have the ability.” So it’s kind of like I can let go of having people understand, so they could be like… There is a part of me that always wants people to think like me.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Like you want people to think like you, because you think your way of thinking is of course the right way of thinking.
ELIAS: Of course.
ANN: But it was just an easier step when I’m listening to this. Like, “Oh my god, what a useless endeavor of me.” (Both laugh) I mean, you can explain your side and you can say what you want to say and obviously be who you are in this world, and be who you’re meant to be is your piece of the puzzle so you do want to express that. But trying to get THAT piece of the puzzle to look like YOUR piece of the puzzle… it just all of a sudden becomes more and more obvious how counterproductive that is. So it makes it easier for me to say, “Oh, okay.” And what I mean by accepting is not trying to get the other person to be like me; I’m like, “Oh, that’s who they are.”
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. Excellent.
ANN: Yeah. That was a nice thing.
All right. Let’s shift it to a little more fun topic. Another curiosity question: Is there a difference between daydreaming and using your imagination? Or is it the same thing?
ELIAS: No. It is different.
ANN: And how is it different?
ELIAS: Because daydreaming can be similar to night dreaming, or it can be actually projecting, or it can be fantasy. Whereas imagination is real and it’s not fantasy.
ANN: Okay. So, when do I know if I’m daydreaming or if I’m using my imagination?
ELIAS: (Pause) I’d say that if you’re daydreaming, first of all you’re awake when you’re daydreaming. And usually, daydreaming involves some aspect of wishful thinking. Therefore, that’s a strong indicator. (Pause)
ANN: All right. How do I know when I’m using my imagination?
ELIAS: Imagination is NOT wishful thinking, and it generally will be presenting things to you that you didn’t know.
ANN: All right. How DO I then use my imagination?
ELIAS: That depends upon what you want to do. You can use your imagination in any capacity. You can use it to enhance things, you can use it to find things, you can use it to develop things or to inspire you. It simply depends on what you want to do.
ANN: Hm. (20-second pause) All right. Let’s say, an example: I’ve lost a book, and I want to find the book. And normally I’m like, if I lose something I would go back and retrace my steps and I would be just thinking about that. So THAT wouldn’t be my imagination; that would be memory, or accessing memory, or I can –
ELIAS: You can use your imagination to activate memory also, or to enhance it. And in that, you can be imagining that book and then imagining having it again and looking at it and seeing the details of it, and that can lead you in a direction of enhancing memory, which might lead you to what you did with it.
ANN: Ah! So…
ELIAS: Even if you disappeared it.
ANN: Ah, even if I disappear it. Okay, so you know the landscape exercise that you tell people to do sometimes, is that using your imagination? Like when you picture something and then just let the scene roll?
ELIAS: No. That’s different, because that is a subjective exercise. You are creating the initial photograph, per se, and then you’re allowing the subjective awareness to slip into that primary position and take over and create the movement. That’s a different action, because what’s happening is that’s an interplay between the objective and the subjective awarenesses in relation to accomplishing something – most of the time in relation to healing, but not always. And in that, it’s an exercise in how to be aware of what the objective and subjective awarenesses are doing together, because they’re always moving in harmony, but this allows you to be more directing of both. Most people are not intentionally directing with the subjective awareness, because they don’t know what to do with it and they don’t know how to access it. And that is what is significant about the inner landscape, because that’s what you’re doing.
ANN: Right.
ELIAS: But’s that about what you’re actually already doing. That’s not about imagining.
ANN: And imagining… I’m not quite sure I have a grasp on what using my imagination is all about. Hm.
ELIAS: Which is understandable. I would say that there is much about all of the functions of a human that they don’t actually (chuckles) understand yet. But you will! (Pause)
ANN: I’ll have to think about that. You really haven’t told me –
ELIAS: [Inaudible]
ANN: Can I say something, Elias? Sometimes you just dance around things and just don’t get to the point. (Elias laughs) I feel like –
ELIAS: Or so it seems (Ann laughs), but sometimes it’s because –
ANN: Is it because I’m dense? (Laughs) But I don’t know!
ELIAS: I would say that in the moment or in the time framework, it’s you’re simply not understanding yet, and you require time to assimilate and process to understand what I’m expressing. And this is also why I have Michael, who helps to explain many of these concepts in terms that the rest of you do understand and can relate to, because you have similar experiences. And that’s how, as I have expressed for a tremendous amount of time, you move from concept into reality, is through your experience – that when you experience the concept, then it becomes real.
ANN: Yes.
ELIAS: And then you understand it. This is the reason that in the beginning I expressed to the initial group several times that I would engage explanations with them about different concepts after they had the experience, therefore then they would understand what I was expressing to them. Otherwise, it was simply words.
ANN: Yes. Yes, learning in layers. (Elias chuckles) So I’m thinking about this landscape thing – or I was. It makes me think about the objective and the subjective communicating.
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: So you have been encouraging meditation and Mary has been encouraging meditation. She was telling me about a sensual meditation that she did where she’s sitting on a plank, a board in the middle of the ocean and water. And she could feel the water, she could feel the air, she could feel things, and when she got cold she jumped in the water and got back up and da-da-da. So I thought okay, I’ll try that meditation.
So I put myself on a board in the water. I didn’t necessarily have a sensual experience, but it almost felt like I was doing an inner landscape exercise because I don’t know if it was meditation but it was… Things started to go crazy and I just thought, well, it was kind of fun so I just rolled with it. But I was sitting there and then… And I don’t know. Was I imagining? Or was I using my inner landscape? Was I daydreaming? I don’t know, but maybe you’ll tell me.
But I’m sitting there and I see these fish come up. They’re all coming up, and I was so amused because they’re popping up, they’re looking at me because they’re very curious. And they were just kind of comical looking. And then a lot of things – I only did this for 15 minutes, and a lot of things happened and I can’t remember the order of everything. But then even like a whale came up and went around, and then I decided to dive down with the whale and we came back up and exploded out of the water. And then my dragon came down and turned all the water to ice and I said, “I didn’t know you could do that.” And he’s like, “There’s a lot of things you don’t know.” (Elias laughs)
Something else he did, I can’t remember. And then I was thinking oh, there is a lot of stuff I don’t know. I can’t remember what else he did. Oh, no, no, the first thing he did is he landed on the water, kind of like a pelican would land on the water. And I said, “I didn’t know you could do that.” And that’s when he said… And then he turned that water into ice and said, “There’s a lot of…” and that’s what I thought, yeah, there are a lot of things I don’t know. You know, fire turning into ice. And I don’t know, just all this stuff happened and it was kind of fun. And I just like let the projector roll, kind of like you’re supposed to do in the landscape – just what happens, happens.
So what was that? Was that like my subjective and objective talking? Was I using my imagination?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: That was my subjective and objective. Okay, you tell me. What was all that?
ELIAS: I’d say all of it. You were involving your imagination in relation to the dragon. You were involving your subjective and objective together in relation to the visualization, and in that, actualizing your intention. You wanted to be engaging your meditation on the ocean, and therefore your objective and subjective were both involved in creating that visualization, and then you expand it. And remember: When you’re doing a meditation or an inner landscape, the movement is being generated by the subjective, and the imagery is being expressed by the objective. And therefore it’s very similar to a dream except in reverse, because the subjective is in the primary position.
Now, in that, as you do that your subjective awareness is simply expressing what you’re doing or your intention, and the objective is following it by generating the imagery of it. Do you understand?
ANN: Yeah. I think so.
ELIAS: Excellent. Good. And then you’re enhancing it by including your imagination and bringing in your dragon into the experience. Therefore, your imagination is pulling from some other reality.
ANN: Ah! Hm.
ELIAS: Remember: Imagination is not fantasy. It’s real. It’s a communication. And therefore what you are imagining exists. And in that, you’re pulling from another reality to include your dragon in your experience.
ANN: Hm. Okay so when I’m dreaming at night, isn’t that my objective awareness creating the dream image?
ELIAS: That is, I would say,…
ANN: [Inaudible]
ELIAS: Yes, between the objective and the subjective. In that, though, the objective has more of the obvious expression because it’s creating the imagery.
ANN: Well, I’d say when I do, in the daytime… Like that experiment was very lovely, fun imagery, and it was a nice experience. And I’ve said also this to you before, like at night certain people have all these wonderful dreams. Sometimes I do, but more often than not I have my stress dreams. It just seems like there’s two different experiences going on there, daytime being much more pleasant, nighttime being much more stressful.
ELIAS: Understandable. And I would express that that is something that you can change, in relation to the night dreams.
ANN: Okay. Ah, that I would be interested in.
ELIAS: I would say –
ANN: It’s just a matter of setting intention?
ELIAS: The first piece is to pay attention to what you’re doing before you go to bed.
ANN: Ah. Well, there’s my answer.
ELIAS: I would say pay attention to what you’re doing for approximately an hour before you go to bed. And first of all, notice what energy you’re expressing. What are you doing physically? What are you thinking about? What are you feeling? And then it’s a matter of once you’re aware of that, then you can address it in relation to anything and everything that is not conducive to relaxing.
I would also say that if you are moving in the direction of meditation, for you it might be advantageous to you to be meditating at night –
ANN: Yeah.
ELIAS: Before you go to bed.
ANN: Okay. All right. That answered that question. I think I know what’s going on.
ELIAS: Ah!
ANN: All right. So another curiosity question: Is hierarchy a masculine characteristic?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Ahhh! (Laughs)
ELIAS: But I would say that it has been taken on by female, because that’s what you have learned.
ANN: Yeah. I was watching this show on TV about Widow Clicquot. She’s a French veuve. She’s a French woman. I don’t even know what century it was. Oh my god, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, a long time ago. But her husband died and she kept the vineyards, and in this show I thought it was very interesting because back then especially, a woman being in charge, this was just unheard of and the men were telling her how she had to demand respect, blah blah blah, they’re saying you need a hierarchy. And she’s talking to everybody and she says, “I picture it more as a wheel with all these spokes, with everyone coming in.” That felt like a very feminine characteristic, was more of the wheel dynamic – instead of the hierarchy, the spokes, everybody’s coming to the center. Everybody’s coming to the center and offering the information and… Would you think that is more of a feminine structure?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: The wheel structure? Yeah.
ELIAS: I would agree.
ANN: Yeah. Well, I’m glad I’ve been moving more into feminine energy. (Elias laughs) So I [inaudible]. I know you don’t like these percentage questions, blah blah blah, and it’s probably… Actually, it’s probably different for every single person that asks. I’m not going to ask for myself individually, but for… Actually, I might. But for our current world today, what percentage – oh, there’s probably still a lot of male energy being expressed. What is the percentage of male energy being expressed versus female energy being expressed, in this moment in time?
ELIAS: Are you meaning the gender energy or the (pause) feminine versus masculine?
ANN: Feminine versus masculine.
ELIAS: Very well. (Pause) Generally, I would say that it’s (pause) approximately 55-45, with the 55 being the feminine.
ANN: Really? The 55 being the feminine?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: Wow!
ELIAS: But I would say that the 45 is fighting hard.
ANN: (Laughs) I would say so too! Oh. And so, when we shift… I mean, it’s nice to have a balance, I would think, but when we quote-unquote, let’s say, “completely shift,” it won’t be 100% feminine energy, will it?
ELIAS: No.
ANN: It will still kind of be a balance?
ELIAS: Yes.
ANN: I‘m thinking both energies are good. Okay, I said I wasn’t going to ask, but I changed my mind. On myself, what is the percentage not of gender energy but of masculine-feminine energy? What are the percentages with myself right now?
ELIAS: And what would your impression be?
[The timer for the session rings]
ANN: I’m going to say 55-45, 55 being feminine, (laughs) 45 being male.
ELIAS: I’d say slightly higher feminine for you.
ANN: Ah! I thought… I love the masculine energy as well. (Elias laughs) Actually, that kind of makes sense, because I can be competitive but I’m not THAT competitive. I’m just thinking about it.
ELIAS: I would definitely agree.
ANN: All right. My little meandering session, and the bell is going off. So let me ask you one more question. What is YOUR definition of an artist?
ELIAS: Repeat.
ANN: What is your definition of an artist?
ELIAS: (Pause) An artist would be anyone that employs their creativity in self-expression in a particular direction and passion. (Pause)
ANN: Hm. (Pause) Hm. Okay. Well, thank you for having my curiosity session with me.
ELIAS: You are very, very welcome. (Chuckles)
ANN: And —
ELIAS: And I express tremendous encouragement to you, my friend, –
ANN: Thank you.
ELIAS: – and shall be very much looking forward to our next meeting. And fun!
ANN: Yeah, and fun. I have to say I have this feeling… I have this feeling that 2025 is going to be a good year. I don’t know why.
ELIAS: I would say that you are not alone in that and that there are many individuals that have a very similar feeling.
ANN: Hm. All right. I love you, Elias.
ELIAS: (Laugh) And I love you, and I express dear friendship to you. Until our next meeting, in wondrous encouragement to you and great acknowledgment in what you are doing and what you are accomplishing. Until then, my dear friend, au revoir.
ANN: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour 4 minutes)
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