Session 202310211

October 2023 Group Session: The State of Flow


“The State of Flow”
“Using Flow to Create Intentionally”
“Contagious Flow”
“Expanding Flow to Include Other People”
“Unhealthy Flow”
“Intentionally Practicing Flow”
“Balance and Equilibrium”
“Definitions of Imagination, Intuition, Impulses, Impressions, Inspiration and Clairvoyance”

Saturday, October 21, 2023 (Group/Hinsdale, New Hampshire)

Participants: Mary (Michael), Ann (Vivette), Bonnie (Lyla), Christina (Melian), Debbie (Tamarra), Denise (Azura), Eric (Doren), Hazra (Lettecia), John H. (Lonn), John R. (Rrussell), Karen (Turell), Lynda (Ruther), Magdalena (Michella), Mark (Liam), Phil (Paetre), Tara (Niella) and Yvonne (Zarla)

“What happens when you are in the state of flow – which is, I would say, beautiful – is that all of those synapses are working, but they’re all working in the same direction.…They’re not simply randomly firing, but they’re all moving together in a flow. Your physical brain is actually generating a harmony… It IS beautiful.”

“Practice! And I have no doubt that you will all accomplish, and enjoy yourselves doing it.”

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

GROUP: Good afternoon, Elias.

ELIAS: Ah! Before I begin, what are your impressions of what we will be discussing today?

GROUP: FLOW! (Group laughter) [1]

ANN: And I think the reason we couldn’t get the rain gone is because what better imagery for flow (Elias laughs)… than water flowing from the sky. See? It’s all interconnected. Someone keeps telling me everything’s interconnected.

DENISE: Who? (Group chatter and Elias chuckles)

ANN: Everything is interconnected.

JOHN H: I don’t believe it. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: (Laughs) NOW; who wants to DEFINE flow?

ANN: (Pointing to Denise) She does.

DENISE: Oh, thanks, Ann. (Group laughter) Anybody else? It’s a highly focused state of creativity that generates conductivity to productivity.

ELIAS: NOW, explain what that means. (Group laughter and chatter) And did everybody hear that definition?



ELIAS: No. Would you repeat that, please?

DENISE: “A highly focused state of creativity that generates the action of conductivity to productivity.” [2]

JOHN R: Wait, isn’t imagination somewhere in there?

ANN: Yes, and I’m going to figure that part out, but it’s in the beginning (Elias chuckles) – and it’s a very important, critical part. (Elias chuckles)

DENISE: It’s not in the definition, but it is a critical part.

ANN: We know things about it; we just…

ELIAS: NOW, does someone want to explain what that definition means? (Pause) No one!

DENISE: Are you taking guesses? (Group laughter)

ANN: I will explain.


DENISE: Ann will explain.

ANN: Okay. I’m going to give it a stab. I still haven’t figured out how that imagination part fits in, but it’s when you are so focused on what you are doing or creating or paying attention to, that the rest of the world kind of fades away and you’re just… you’re focused on yourself and this action that you’re doing, on the action itself, and that’s a conduit to productivity, and you produce something. And you do it intentionally, that’s intentionally creating.

All right, clean it up.

JOHN R: Provided you’re not hyper-focused, because that’s bad, right?

ANN: Oh! Is hyper…? I don’t know.

JOHN R: I think it’s hyper-focused, hyper-aware or hyper-focused, so you want to get it right in the middle somewhere for optimal flow. (Group chatter and laughter) I pulled that out of my… (Group laughter)… something.

ELIAS: Out of your brain. (Group laughter)

ANN: Yes, which is where the thoughts are. (Group laughter) And there is something about we’re thinking so many thoughts at one time, so when you’re hyper-focused you stream… You’re just on — (Group chatter) Highly focused: You are streamlining on one thing, and all the other thoughts, they’re gone.

YVONNE: You’re not scattered.

ANN: You’re not scattered.

YVONNE: And you’re not paying attention to time at all.

ELIAS: Correct. Correct.

YVONNE: And, I feel when I’m in a really good flow, I feel like I’m physically and entirely healthy, too.

ANN: Healthy? Oh, wow! That’s cool.

ELIAS: That may not be the case with everyone, but I understand what you are expressing, and that’s excellent.

Anyone else want to contribute to explaining the definition?

JOHN R: You’re not entirely aware of your immediate things outside of you, or your surroundings?

ELIAS: Correct – to a degree.

JOHN R: Yeah, to a degree.

ELIAS: Because you are aware of whatever it is in your immediate surroundings that you are engaging.

ANN: Can I take a stab at how imagination falls into all that? So, when you are so highly focused and so involved in what you are doing, then you’re enjoying it or satisfied with it, and all the other thoughts go away. Does that help? That clears the way for imagination, maybe? Or it helps you use your imagination easier? Or it’s like a fertile ground for imagination?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, because imagination is an avenue of communication, just as your senses are avenues of communication. You use your senses to communicate information to yourself, and you do that with imagination also. Imagination is not the same as fantasy. Imagination is a communication, and it involves very real things. Even if those real things aren’t a part of YOUR physical reality, they are a part of SOME reality.

ANN: So then I ask, how do we discern the difference between imagination and fantasy for ourselves? Like if we’re daydreaming or something, how do we know if it’s fantasy or if it’s imagination?

DENISE: We’ve asked this before. [Inaudible] Fantasy is when you’re putting what you want on top of the situation. Imagination is not putting it there; it comes in. It comes in.

ANN: (To Denise) Okay. See, this is why I hang out with you. (Group laughter and chatter)

JOHN R: You’re almost a conduit for imagination in that state, right?

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

YVONNE: I would say too there’s very little or no restriction involved in flow. So I notice if I start paying attention to not enough, that kills my flow.

ELIAS: That would be an astute observation, yes.

Now,… let’s have you each give an example of an experience in which you are or have been aware that you were in a state of flow.

HAZRA: That’s easy!


HAZRA: Like if I’m cross-stitching and really [inaudible], and hours could go by [inaudible]. But I was so, so involved and so enjoying myself.

ELIAS: Precisely! You are tremendously focused and in that state of creativity – because flow is a state of being, and it is the word or the terminology that is used as an umbrella. It’s the overview for all of these components that are involved in the state of creativity. And in that, it IS something that you are very focused on.

And in that, one of the significant components of this is that you are entirely focused in process. You are not focused on the outcome. You are focused on what you’re doing. You’re directing – that’s the conductivity part. You are directing yourself very intentionally in what you’re doing to generate the productivity part. And you are not concerned with or even thinking about the outcome; you are highly focused on the process.

And in that, in the process, that doesn’t mean that the process is necessarily what you would think of as being linear or even entirely sequential, because you can be engaging that process and be inspired in relation to other aspects of what you’re doing – therefore, other aspects of the creativity that you are engaging. Therefore, you could be in flow with your cross-stitching, and in that, you’re highly focused on that process and what you’re doing, but you can also be inspired while you’re engaging that process for an expansion of that project, or for another project. And in that, you can also be inspired to challenge yourself to engage something more complex, something that stretches your ability, and you are entirely willing and able and pliable, in that state, to do that.

HAZRA: Yeah, like then I move on to [inaudible]. It’s like that.

ELIAS: Yes! Now, this is very different from a tangent, because in that state of creativity, and in that state of flow, you’re moving in that process and you’re simply expanding on the same process. Therefore, it may involve some other aspect of creativity that is not exactly what you are engaging at that moment, but it’s in that field. And therefore, it’s an expansion of what you’re already in process with.

In this, anything can be creative. Therefore, do not make the mistake of thinking that the only things that are creative are artistic, because there are many, many, many other actions that you do that you may be in flow and the same process is happening and imagination is involved, because that’s your avenue of communication that you are most paying attention to.

Even more than your physical senses, you are paying attention to whatever information your imagination is feeding to you in your process. But that can be expressed with anything, quite literally. You can be an individual that experiences flow when they do laundry. And in that, in that state of creativity – and it can be a creative process – you can be so highly focused on the action of engaging the process of your laundry that you can also be incorporating being aware of your communication of imagination, and you can be inspired in relation to something somewhat related to that which might not actually be laundry, just as you’re expressing in relation to a different type of sewing but not cross-stitching. You could be inspired in relation to some type of textiles. That is an expansion on your involvement with what you’re doing with the laundry. And in that, therefore you might have some inspiration to create something with some type of textiles.

In this, it doesn’t matter what the subject is. You could be a server in a restaurant and interacting with customers and interacting with cooks and engaging in the process of being a server, and you can be in flow and you can be paying attention to that communication of imagination. And you might be generating interesting napkins with your customers. You might be generating some type of interesting engagement with each of your customers. You might be creating rhymes with each of them. You might be telling stories. The possibilities are endless.

The point is that during that state of flow, you are in a highly focused direction. You are engaging imagination as your primary avenue of communication to yourself during that time. You are less aware of time; sometimes you are oblivious to time. You are in process, and that is the most important piece to you. You are not concerned with outcomes. You are completely enveloped in the process. You are not generating three or five or fifteen lines of thought. You are highly focused in one.

In this also, it’s something that you enjoy. Now, this is another catch word, in a manner of speaking, because most of you have a definition of enjoyment. And in that, you’re going to define that to yourselves in a specific manner and have a specific perception and idea of what enjoyment is. You can be very much enjoying yourself and not feeling much. Therefore you can be so highly focused in that process of creativity that you’re not paying attention to what you feel, although you are aware that you enjoy what you’re doing and you don’t necessarily want to stop the process.

Now, this is also an important piece, because some people will prevent themselves from moving into that state of being because they don’t want to stop and start. And in this, this is an important factor, that when you are in flow you naturally want to continue doing whatever you are doing. You want to automatically continue being in flow because it IS enjoyable, even though you don’t necessarily feel joyous. But in that, the next step is learning how to create flow at any time, at will, with any subject, regardless of what it is. Therefore, if you stop with one flow, that doesn’t mean that you have to stop being in that state of creativity. You simply can change the subject, and therefore you don’t have to stop and start; you simply change the subject. You move from one subject to another, but you remain in that state of being because that’s what flow is: a state of being. It’s not a feeling. It’s a state of being, and it’s a state of being of creativity. Therefore it’s learning how to be creative in relation to anything that you’re doing AND to move in more expansive directions with that flow. Because most of you will have had experiences of being in the state of flow when you’re by yourself, when you’re doing something yourself alone and that you are very focused on yourself and in that state of creativity.

Expanding that is allowing yourself to be in that state, to continue to be in that state, and then also include other people into the state with you – regardless of what state they’re in. That doesn’t matter. That doesn’t have to interrupt your state of flow. Whatever the other individuals are doing is what they’re doing; what is important is what YOU’RE doing.

JOHN R: A lively conversation could be flow, right? I mean, I’m thinking about being in meetings during the day where I’m interacting with people but I still feel like I’m in a state of flow.

DENISE: What if it’s not interacting? Like we’re sitting here listening to you.

JOHN R: True, yeah.

ELIAS: It can be.

DENISE: How would I get in the flow, sitting here listening to you?

ELIAS: Very well. You’re participating with myself in this interaction. Even though you may simply be listening, you may not be engaging a conversation with myself, you’re still participating with me. In that, you already have the first piece of being highly focused; therefore, that’s already in process. Then it’s a matter of including the other two factors. You also are already engaging imagination. You’re already engaging imagination. You’re already not paying as much attention to your other senses, therefore you have some of the components already in play.

Now it’s a matter of incorporating those components of conductivity to productivity. Therefore, the conductivity is directing. Change the word from conductive to directing. Think of a maestro. Think of a conductor with a symphony. He’s directing the symphony. In that, you are then directing yourself in relation to what you’re paying attention to. Are you following thus far?

Then there is the piece of the productivity, the production. Okay. In that, the production is what you are assimilating and what you will do with it. This also includes imagination. You’re not blank. You’re not not thinking. You’re listening and you’re processing, (to Hazra) just as you are processing with cross-stitching. You’re processing. You are IN a process, listening. And in that process, you’re directing your attention.

You’re directing your attention to me, but you’re also directing your attention to your imagination. And in that, whatever I’m saying, you’re processing and you’re thinking, how can you use this? What might you do with this? It isn’t simply that you’re listening for no reason. You have an agenda. You want to do something with what I’m saying. Therefore, you’re already thinking in some capacities of how to be using this information. And therefore that’s –

DENISE: That’s the producing.


DENISE: Not the actual what I do with it later. It’s thinking about what I can do.

ELIAS: It’s both. It’s both.

JOHN R: One of the first things you said is to turn on… Your imagination is engaged, right? How do you know that your imagination is engaged? What does it mean?

DENISE: I’m trying to imagine scenarios to apply this, like at work, or when I’m playing games with my family, or –

ELIAS: Or you are even thinking about what you already do, just as you were.

DENISE: And you’re saying that’s not imagination? Because that’s just thinking? Is that what you’re…?

JOHN R: Yeah, I may be confused on that part.

ELIAS: That is your thinking, but what is your thinking? What is your thought mechanism? What does it do?

JOHN R: It translates.

ELIAS: It translates. Right.

DENISE: It’s like your avenues of communication, which –

ELIAS: Precisely.

JOHN R: Right.

ELIAS: That is correct. Therefore, what you’re doing is, you’re hearing what I’m saying, and your imagination is giving you information about when you’ve had this experience. You’re not thinking about your senses. You’re thinking about, “When have I had these experiences? What have I done? What have I experienced? Have I been in flow?”

JOHN R: I’m rifling through the possibilities, or…

ELIAS: Yes. That comes from your imagination.

JOHN R: Right.

DENISE: Doesn’t that feel like you’re not focused, though? Like you’re thinking all these things. You’re like, “I feel like if…”

JOHN R: Well, it depends. It depends. Yeah, that too.

ELIAS: But you’re in a process.

DENISE: Okay. So the focus is the process?

ELIAS: Yes. You’re –

DENISE: Even with all the side thoughts and…

ELIAS: Of course! Because that’s part of the process.


ANN: So is your memory imagination?

ELIAS: Your imagination can tap into memories and bring them forward, to fit the scenario, to fit the situation.

JOHN R: Maybe if you were to talk through the mechanics of imagination, would that be useful?

ELIAS: Imagination is simply your ability to access all information. That is what imagination is. It is ALL information. And in that, you have the ability to access that, any and every aspect of any type of information that has ever been.

KAREN: How is that different from intuition?

ELIAS: Intuition is the mechanism of answering questions. That’s all intuition does. It doesn’t do anything else. It only answers questions, even questions you don’t realize you’ve asked. But that’s what intuition does.

JOHN R: It’s a gear. It’s like a doing thingy, whereas imagination is an input into the system.


JOHN R: Okay.

ELIAS: Imagination is an input. It’s a flow of input of information from everywhere.

JOHN R: Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay, now I’m…

CHRISTINA: I imagine you have to be present to be in the flow? Or not?


ANN: What was that question?

CHRISTINA: Do you have to be present to get in flow?

DENISE: You’re present when you’re IN flow, or to GET in the flow?

ELIAS: To be IN flow.

ANN: And impulses, are you acting upon your intuition with an impulse? Or are you acting upon the communication you receive from your imagination?

ELIAS: Impulses are not necessarily connected with intuition, although they can be at times. Impulses are tricky, because they can be connected with an inspiration, they can be connected with intuition, but then they also can be not connected with any of those and they can be directed by habit or something that you want or –

ANN: And your constructs probably all play into that, or your belief structures.

ELIAS: It can. They can. That’s the reason that impulses can be tricky. They’re not the same as intuition or impressions.

ANN: Oh, impressions. Is impressions –

ELIAS: Impulses are very different.

ANN: So where do impressions come from? Our imagination?

ELIAS: Impressions do come from imagination, yes.

ANN: Okay.

ELIAS: And inspiration comes from –

ANN: Comes from imagination.


YVONNE: So what about clairvoyance? And how is that related to intuition and imagination?

ELIAS: (Pause) Clairvoyance is not actually what most people think it is. The act of clairvoyance is the act of tapping into other energies. It’s not fortunetelling, it’s not predictions, it’s not prophesies. It is tapping into other energies and being able to read those other energies, and being able to read them accurately.

Therefore sometimes a clairvoyant can read the energy of, let us say, another individual and it can seem that they may be fortune telling or that they may be expressing a prophesy, so to speak – therefore, telling the future. When in actuality, if they are genuinely a clairvoyant, and if they are genuinely reading the energy accurately, what they’re doing is they are tapping into the direction of an individual. They’re not predicting what the individual will do or won’t do or what will happen, but that they are reading a direction that an individual is presently engaging and therefore can say it might be likely that the individual will continue in a certain direction, without a guarantee. Therefore that’s a very different expression than the others that you mentioned. It’s an entirely different direction.

MARK: Can I ask a question? Are the mechanics of flow the same for everyone?


MARK: And then the next question is: Is the perception of flow different for everyone?

ELIAS: Is perception –

MARK: No. Is THE perception of flow different for everyone?

JOHN R: Like the experience of it?

ELIAS: I would say yes.

MARK: How I would perceive flow, how you would perceive flow.

ELIAS: I would say yes, because –

MARK: Even though… I mean, it sounds like a contradiction but it’s really not, right?

ELIAS: I would say yes, because everyone’s experience would be different.

MARK: Right.

ELIAS: Therefore yes, their perception would be different.

MARK: So… I’m trying to apply it to myself, and I guess everyone else too. I mean in flow, in the mechanics of flow, I’m making an assumption that not always, but there could be synchronicities? I don’t know how to frame it.

ELIAS: Offer an example.

MARK: (Pause) That’s a problem. You made a statement about the mechanics of flow and potentially having a feeling of joy because we’re in a state of being. We move and things are just clicking, they’re happening. To me that’s synchronicity, that’s flowing. I don’t know if that’s accurate, but… And I don’t know if that’s a good example. I can’t really define or…

ELIAS: This is actually a good example of the difficulty that people have in relation to defining flow.

MARK: So I guess I’ll ask you a question. You said that if you’re in flow, you’re not thinking about it. Is that accurate?

ELIAS: Or you’re not concerned.

MARK: And again, I mean it’s a wording, definition. Like this morning, as an example. This morning I’m walking downstairs in the hotel, debating on whether I may walk for a couple of miles on a treadmill. I hear this beeping sound. I walk down the hallway, and that’s where the gym is with the treadmills. And I walk down this hallway into a dark room where all the treadmills are. I turn the light on and the treadmill is beeping. So to me, that’s information. I don’t know if this fits into flow, but if I follow that –


MARK: — and get on the treadmill, is that flow?

ELIAS: No. No.

JOHN R: It’s more like that feeling of being in the zone, I guess.

TARA: Can I offer an example? And you can tell me if I’m correct in my example? So I’ve created a new garden, and I try and grow my own food, but I like my garden to look beautiful, attract bees. It has to have more than one purpose. So I go down there with the intention to plant seeds. And I’m down there, and two to three hours have passed and I don’t even realize it’s passed because I’m planting the seeds. And then I see some flowers: “Oh, the bees would like those.” I move them there. I’m creating this garden to be beautiful. And then I realize that my back’s pinging and I think, “I’m going to grab these flowers, and I want to paint them.” And they link together.

So I take them in my studio, and the next thing I’m painting these flowers and it’s three o’clock in the afternoon. “Oh! I haven’t even eaten, I haven’t drunk anything.” So I go in the house to have something to eat or drink, and the next minute I’m creating a beautiful meal and I’m in that. And if I’m not with anyone, it can go for days. But then my head gets kind of…

This is the weird thing. My head gets fuzzy, and I feel like I need to talk to someone or interrupt it because I’ve lost sense of time, I’ve lost sense of normal clock rhythm. I get up when I want, I’m in the garden when I want, I’m painting when I want, and then I realize a week has gone by and I haven’t spoken to anyone! (Group laughter) I have to interrupt it because I think I’m going crazy (laughs). I’m losing track of time. I become forgetful.

ELIAS: That definitely is flow. AND that’s what I was expressing about expanding, and that then you move from that to including other people into your expression of flow. It’s NOT healthy to be in flow constantly and to be isolated.

TARA: Yeah, because time does stand still. And the dogs are saying, “Hey! I’m hungry!” “Oh, sorry.” (Group laughter)

KAREN: I’ve noticed when you start including people, then the schedule starts really coming together. Someone will cancel, which makes room for something else, and suddenly everything works out, where there was some sort of problem with the schedule before or I wasn’t happy, but suddenly then the schedule starts moving in flow.

TARA: The universe rearranged it for you.

KAREN: Yeah. It starts getting rearranged.

MARK: That’s what I was talking about, synchronicity. It has to do with that.

KAREN: Is that flow or is that something else?

ELIAS: That is likely not.

KAREN: Okay.

ELIAS: You can be paying attention to different things and you can create some synchronicity, because that’s what you’re paying attention to, and therefore you’re inventing the synchronicity. I would not necessarily be addressing to those expressions, because those are… those are things you do. You create that. You make that happen. But synchronicity is not about flow.

MARK: Good information.

ELIAS: It can be definitely giving you information, but that’s not the same, because what we are discussing in relation to flow is very specific. (To Hazra) That what you’re describing definitely would be flow. (To Tara) What you have described definitely would be flow. (To John R) Sometimes when you are at work and you are engaging with the other people at work, sometimes YOU definitely are in that flow. Each of you has examples with yourselves of something, some time framework, some moments that you’ve been in that state of being highly focused and that you are directing, that you are paying more attention to imagination than any other avenue of communication – even if it’s at work.

It doesn’t matter what you’re doing. That’s the point, is that you can be in that state of creativity and be doing anything. It doesn’t matter what it is that you’re doing. It also can enhance many things in your life, because it allows you to be not only highly focused on process, but you are also being intentional. And therefore, you can direct that in subjects that you want to accomplish something in. Some people might want to create more money. Some people might want to create better relationships. Some people –

DENISE: Communities.

ELIAS: Yes. A community. It doesn’t matter, but whatever it is, each of you has something that you want to create, something that you want to intentionally create. Some of you want to create more longevity. You want to live longer. Whatever it is with each of you, there’s something that you want to do intentionally that perhaps you don’t quite know how to do intentionally.

And we’ve been discussing creating your reality intentionally for quite some time. Now we are in the direction of actually doing that. (Group clapping and cheering)

Now you have moved to the point in which you have enough information and you are self-aware enough to actually take this next step, to learn how to move in a direction of flow and to also include other people – because that’s important. You don’t want to be in flow constantly by yourself.


JOHN R: I feel like the ultimate discussion is going to come soon, which is probably what prevents you from being in flow when you want to be in flow. Right? But one deductive question I have before we get to that, if that’s what we’re going to get to, is are we expected ideally to be in a state of flow 100% of the time?

ELIAS: That would be a choice.

JOHN R: I understand. Okay.

ANN: Would it be beneficial?

YVONNE: If we’re including other people.

ELIAS: Would it be beneficial to be in flow 100% of the time? Yes, it would. Because in that, you would be in a constant state of creativity, you would be in a constant state of considerable focus, therefore you would be highly focused in whatever it is that you’re doing, and you would be able to move easily from one subject to another and remain in that state. Which would then allow you to intentionally create what you want, which is the point. Which is what you’ve been moving towards for quite some time.

ANN: Can you be in flow if you’re daydreaming? When you’re sitting there daydreaming about whatever, let just things drift through you…?

JOHN R: Yeah. Well, I mean, ultimately will somebody necessarily be in flow at all times, even if they’re Jesus? Right? Is that kind of like –

ANN: No. I was wondering if you’re daydreaming if you’re in flow. Because flow seems like such an intentional thing to do, versus in your daydream it seems receptive to me, versus intentionally doing something. Daydreaming seems like, “Ohhh, wouldn’t it be nice, isn’t this beautiful…?”

ELIAS: Now, think about that, and are all of the components in play?

ANN: When you’re daydreaming? Maybe. They could be.


ANN: Well, if you’re focused on… Well, directing is not in play.

DENISE: When you’re directing it through your [inaudible]?

ELIAS: And what would be the productivity?

ANN: Well, inspiration.

DENISE: Relaxation.

ANN: Relaxation.

JOHN R: Fantasy, but that’s not imagination.

ANN: It’s fun daydreaming.

ELIAS: I’m not saying that it isn’t.

ANN: Well, that’s productive. Isn’t fun, creating fun, isn’t that a production? Or relaxation? And daydreaming can be an inspiration.

DENISE: You might be inspired to write about it.

ELIAS: Inspiration comes from imagination.

ANN: So I’m taking it the answer to this question is no, is where we’re heading. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: Now; what I would say to you is, that’s the reason it would be a choice as to whether you want to be in flow constantly or not. And some people might not want to be in flow constantly. And I would say that it depends. You could be generating that action of daydreaming and you could be in flow, if it was directed.

ANN: Yeah. Like if I was intentionally daydreaming about something. Let’s say I want to build a house.


ANN: And I’m daydreaming about what I want that house to look like.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

TARA: So that was the missing factor, intention? Do you think? Direct intention?

ELIAS: Directing.

TARA: Directing. Okay.

JOHN R: What would be a common example of somebody not wanting to – and valid – with somebody not wanting to be in flow?

ELIAS: (Pause) There might be a situation in which an individual is being lazy and enjoys being lazy and doesn’t want to be directing and doesn’t have an interest in any productivity at all.

JOHN R: Like when you’re getting a massage.

ELIAS: That could even be in a state of flow. It could be a part of a state of flow. It could move from one state and be moving into another state and still be in that state of flow. But there are people that are lazy. And I’m not expressing that as a judgment; it’s simply a statement that some people are. And they may be aware that they are, and in that, they may not have an interest in a process, and they may not have an interest in imagination.

JOHN R: So, provided I’m not lazy, at no point in my day would I likely say I don’t want to be in flow? Right? So at any point in the day if I’m not in flow, I should probably always be asking myself, “What can I do to get myself into flow?”

ELIAS: I would say yes.

JOHN R: Okay. Okay. All right. Now I get it.


MARK: You said flow is a state of being?

ELIAS: Yes, it is.

MARK: Is creativity a state of being?

ELIAS: That IS the state of being. They’re almost –

MARK: What is the difference?

ELIAS: There is no difference.

MARK: Thank you.

ELIAS: As I expressed, flow is the overview. It’s the umbrella term for that state of being of creativity. And in that, –

MARK: So it’s synonymous.

ELIAS: It’s somewhat synonymous, yes.

MARK: Okay. Thank you.

ELIAS: We shall break, and we shall continue shortly.

GROUP: Thank you, Elias.

(Break occurs after 57 minutes)

ELIAS: Continuing.

Now, for the examples part of (chuckles) this interaction, express examples of when you have been aware that you were actually experiencing flow. (To Hazra) You already did it. (To Eric) Now you.

ERIC: I experience it when I’m working, like if I’m digging into a problem, because I like to solve problems. That’s kind of my intent in this focus. So when I’m deep into a problem and I know, I know more when I come out of it than when I went in it because if somebody comes up, then I look at them with this kind of stupid look on my face when they’re talking to me. And I go, “Oh, crap, I forgot to talk.” And then it takes me a minute to come back from wherever I’m at, when I’m deep in the problems.

ELIAS: Excellent example. And also another example of why the next step is important, that you can actually move from one subject to another and that you can include other people and not necessarily interrupt your flow, but not be disoriented in that you are SO into that state of being that you lose touch with everything else. Therefore that’s an excellent example.

(To Christina) And?

CHRISTINA: I believe yesterday when I was working on my presentation, time just tended to evaporate. I get that a lot when I’m writing.

ELIAS: Ah, writing. That’s actually an excellent example with many people. When they’re writing, they do have tendency to move into that direction and be in that creative expression and be in that flow.

(To John R) And you?

JOHN R: Well, I guess I gave the meeting example earlier. I find myself sometimes having to address my organization. Very often I do that without any detailed notes or anything like that. I sort of go off the cuff and it feels like improvising. Improvising is also similar with music, and I think when I’m doing that, there’s a flow.

ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent.

(To Karen) And you?

KAREN: When I was getting ready to come here for the trip, I’m going to be staying on, moving farther east for like four or five weeks, so I had a lot to pack. I made a long list of what I needed to do, and I noticed that as I was packing, I was also working on how to fit things in my car trunk. And I had a large box that I was going to put all my materials in. And suddenly halfway through packing, I’m like, “Oh, I have enough room that I can put half my clothes in here,” and it was suddenly a different way of looking at space. And not everything I was packing was simply clothes and materials. I was going to pack some food. So in the middle of all this I decided, “I’m going to make the food. Right now is a great time to make the food.” And so I just kept moving through all of these various types of packing and looking at the packing differently. And it was not… Usually I get very tense and nervous when I’m packing, but I wasn’t nervous. In fact, I did the whole thing without any concept of “Oh, I’m leaving very soon! I need to…” So there was no sense of pressure, and I noticed as I was leaving, I’m like, “Wow, I don’t feel tense.” So it was interesting.

ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent. Congratulations.

(To Tara) And we have already heard. (To Yvonne) And you?

YVONNE: I’d say sometimes during job interviews and also during improv comedy, just kind of letting it come through and interplaying with the other people about –

ELIAS: And how would you describe when you are interviewing?

YVONNE: The ideas of what to say come through, and then some of the people, like the interviewers, say, “Oh, that’s an excellent answer,” and I don’t even remember what I said afterwards. It just feels like I’m pulling information from anywhere and just blurting it out.

ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent. And in relation to that, do you do that intentionally, or is it something that you simply move into?

YVONNE: I do it more intentionally now. I’ll like kind of ground myself and center and ask for support and try to connect, so I guess moving towards that, I think.

ELIAS: Very well.

YVONNE: Or attempting.

ELIAS: That’s actually an excellent example for many individuals that may find themselves in a situation in which they are looking for a job and engaging that process of interviewing – which, I interact with several people that are in that process presently. That may be helpful to them in how to intentionally put themselves in that state of creativity and flow. Excellent. Thank you.

(To Bonnie) And?

BONNIE: Bridge games with my group of girls.

ELIAS: Excellent!

BONNIE: I’m quite intent on creating a group that will be supportive to each other as we grow older, but the afternoon is only for fun and laughter and so there’s a lot of… a lot of losing myself in all the jokes and sometimes card playing. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Excellent!

(To Debbie) And you?

DEBBIE: Me? Oh. I like that I’m coming after you, Bonnie, because I know how – maybe it’s from being soft and being on my own for a long time – I know how individually to do it, whether the crafts or the plants and flowers, so my challenge is how to flow with people. So, that’s really cool. That’s inspiring. For me right now, my importances are with my partner, my friend, and my kids. So I’ve been kind of practicing with that and folding in the piece about who I want to be.

That reminded me of that, Yvonne, when you said your part. I got that impression that you could use that as well. Because I use that more often and that it does help my interactions. But now, for example, when I’m interacting with Mary, she is so good about being in flow, it’s easier for me to catch that wind. And what you told me before, ideally when somebody says… Finou [3], when you said “This is how it’s ideally going to flow all the time” it reminded me of that, because Elias, you said to me that kind of day when you say, “I’ve had a great day, this was a good day,” it will be like that every day and with everyone. So I get the experience of being with Mary because she’s more practiced about being in the flow.

(To Phil) Now, you and I are practicing more in our new house. And since we’re both softs also, I’ll lose myself putting things away and doing things and he’s out in the garage, and what I’ll do when I’m inspired to go have a sit, either of us will say, “Break,” either meet, either it’ll work or it won’t. So I’ve been moving into more of that with you. With the kids, eh, not so many successes but I’m still just keeping the attention on me. So –

ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent. And I will make another point in relation to what you’ve expressed, that sometimes it can be beneficial and it can be easy to engage with another individual that IS practiced at being in flow and that is generating that more frequently, or more often. I would say that that can be very helpful. If you know another individual that expresses that more readily, you can move into that state more easily simply by being around that individual, simply by being in physical proximity with them. It is something that translates between people, that because it’s an energy, it’s easy to move in those directions when you are around another individual that does express that flow. While they are expressing flow, you can easily move in that direction also. It’s almost contagious. (Chuckles)

(To Phil) And you?

PHIL: All right. I would say, you know, we have the benefit of having our mornings together, and my morning reading and writing and connecting with the world and what I’m interested in, and then sharing it with my partner, interacting with others online, and also in that process I’m planning and thinking and thinking about the yard and the house and shopping and all the things that I want to do and kind of putting it all together. I think that that falls into that?

ELIAS: And how are you putting it all together? Because this could be moving in the direction of more than one line of thought, and that isn’t flow. It’s different when you are in flow, and you’re in that state of creativity and you have inspirations that are in the same direction as what you’re already in process with. Therefore it’s not many different subjects that create many different lines of thought process; it’s ONE thought process and moving in one direction that expands in the same… category, let us say.

PHIL: Genre, say.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

PHIL: Okay. So as an example, when I’m mowing the grass, and I’m looking at my yard and I’m taking in my yard and I’m seeing what needs to be done, what I can do, I’ve got the house up here and what types of improvements that I’d like to make, those types of things.

ELIAS: And apart from the thinking aspect of it, what are you experiencing when you’re mowing your yard?

PHIL: Well, it’s actually kind of transcendent.

ELIAS: THAT is what I’m expressing. Yes. It’s a different state of being. It’s not what your usual state of being is. Excellent.

(To Magdalena) And you?

MAGDALENA: I would like you to skip me. (Laughs) I don’t know. I don’t really know how to phrase myself [inaudible]… Watching my grandchildren, how they behave, how they enjoy everything. One day it was raining. We were happy doing the laundry and playing with everything [inaudible] and how they were running, I could observe. Yeah, and I was a little upset because I have to be here and they were delaying me in a way.

ELIAS: And what I would suggest is perhaps an actual example of you being in flow would perhaps be with your horse.

MAGDALENA: But she is very stubborn. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: It doesn’t mean that (group chatter)… It doesn’t mean that SHE is flowing; it means that YOU are in a state of creativity and highly focused when you are with her. And in that, you also are being directing with yourself and you’re thinking about how to handle her, how to move with her, what to do with her. And in that, you’re generating that action of that conductivity to productivity, that directing to producing. Do you see how that is more of an example in which you’re not so focused on everything around you? You’re focused on what you’re doing with her and how you are producing with her.

MAGDALENA: I see that.

ELIAS: Very well.

(To Mark) And you?

MARK: Hey, I’ll have to get back to you on that. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: Very well. (Laughs)

JOHN R: Can I guess for you?

MARK: Do whatever you want, man.

JOHN R: I think when you’re driving, when you’re out on the open road.

MARK: That’s interesting, because we were just talking about that. Yeah, I mean, I was actually… That’s great. You know, that’s actually unbelievable. I was just talking to Bonnie about that. I asked her to ask that question because if I’m driving, it’s like I could be on a trip coming here, five hours and time vanishes. I’m focused on listening to my sessions. I’m not even really paying attention to… I mean, I’m aware of the traffic, but if you were to ask me, “What was the color of the car that just passed you?” I wouldn’t know. It’s like I’m in some kind of zone.

ELIAS: Precisely.

MARK: I think that’s… I mean, I’ve come to the conclusion what little I know about my own state of flow and only understand the definitions. Maybe when I say –

ELIAS: I would say that’s an excellent example.

MARK: So when I only say “I gotta get back to you,” that helps me to view it differently and I appreciate it.

ELIAS: Excellent.

(To John H) And you?

MARK: Thanks, Finou.

JOHN R: Yeah.

JOHN H: For mine, I’m not sure I fully understand it, but the closest examples I can think of are at work, especially when… Like I’m always working on, say, pieces of maybe ten different projects. But every once in a while, there’ll be like ten – usually I’m working with others – it would be like a breakthrough on one, and then you move on to another project and it almost seems to carry along. And then you get three important things done, where in a normal day you’d feel like you’re not making much progress, but an eight-, nine-hour day feels like an hour maybe. It does feel like it’s… I don’t know, something that you can translate, or maybe even a different group of people. You could go on every once in a while and just kind of forget it. I mean, I do feel like it’s very creative, or maybe different ways of looking at problems and things like that. It’s usually a problem-solving type thing, but it might be like a solution to something we’re developing.

ELIAS: Excellent. I would say also, (pause) many individuals that surf would express that they experience that flow in that time that they are on the ocean, and they are highly focused in what they’re doing. And in that, they can spend a considerable amount of time in that process, but they’re very focused on the process. Even when they engage a wave – which you would think, not being someone that would surf, that that would be focused on the outcome but in actuality, even when they are engaging with a wave, they are processing how to engage that wave in the most exciting but the most efficient manner.

And therefore in that, this is another example of something that someone might have an experience with in the past, not necessarily now, and in that, it’s also good for all of you to think about experiences that you’ve had in the past that were actually examples of being in flow because it helps you to translate that in different manners now.

(To Ann) And you?

ANN: Well, it’s interesting. (To Denise) I’m going to steal yours. I think sometimes when Denise and I will talk, we’ll have a phone conversation, and not all the time but sometimes it’s just so engaging and we’ll even say, “Okay, I’ve got to go,” and then an hour later we’re still talking. But I’m curious about it, because I guess the same topic as this conversation is actually about, it will just flow from one topic to another topic to another topic, and we’ll figure this out and we’ll laugh and… So even though we’re shifting a lot of topics, would it still be like focused?

ELIAS: But you’re doing one thing.

ANN: Okay. So we are. Talking.

ELIAS: Yes. You’re having a conversation with each other and in that, even though you may be discussing different subjects, you’re doing one action. And therefore yes, that would classify as being in flow.

DENISE: And I’m really happy to help someone else, because all mine are singular, so… (Group laughter)

ELIAS: (Laughs) And most of them ARE, at this point. Most of your examples are singular. And that’s the point, is that we’re examining what your experiences are now to familiarize yourselves with this state of being of flow, and then the next step is to involve other people, to expand it to other subjects and to include other people. (To John R) Yes?

JOHN R: Yeah, the next step. I’ve been asking myself throughout the first half that I would feel remiss if I didn’t come away from this with an answer, but the inverse of what you asked, which is when am I not in flow and how do I get myself into flow in this situation?

ANN: Are you saving Denise from having to answer the flow question?

JOHN R: Are you going to answer this?

ANN: She has not answered, and you just usurped her whole… (Group laughter and chatter)

KAREN: Lynda hasn’t answered either. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: And what is your question precisely?

JOHN R: I don’t know, like… Let’s pick a situation. (To Denise) Well, do you want to go first? (Group chatter)

ELIAS: No. Continue. (Group laughter)

JOHN R: I think the best example I can think of when I’m not in flow is maybe sometimes as soon as I wake up, where I’m just sort of like a-h-h, what’s going on? And it takes me a long time to wake up in the morning. That’s maybe one example. And how do I put myself into flow, right, when I’m not in flow?

ELIAS: That is the question. But first we’re going to continue –

JOHN R: Yeah, that’s what I’m going for.

ELIAS: But… but that is the point, is that IS the next step, which we will discuss.

JOHN R: Okay, good.

ELIAS: (To Denise) Continue.

MARK: Can I ask a question real quick though, for Finou?

ANN: Let Denise go. (Group chatter)

MARK: He did it to me. So when Finou said about my flow, was he in a state of flow when he did that?


JOHN R: Oh, interesting.

MARK: I’m just curious.

ELIAS: (To Denise) And?

DENISE: I just want to point out that I had a question written down: how to deal with distraction and stay in flow. (Group laughter) So, timing is everything. (Group chatter)

My example would be at work, similar to John and Eric’s, where I’m troubleshooting. Basically, I’m trying to streamline one of my spreadsheets and processes, and I’m trying to automate something I find myself doing repeatedly. But like Eric said, if somebody walks up, I don’t want to stop. I get distracted. So, my most recent example. I worked until 1:30 in the morning instead of stopping at 6 like I usually do, because I asked myself, I remember asking myself, “Do I want to stop now or…?” I’m like, “No, I like what I’m doing,” and so I kept going. So for me that was an easy point of recognition for my flow.

ELIAS: (Indicating Tara) Very similar.

ANN: To the garden. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: Which, I will say the same to you, that it’s excellent to be in a state of flow, but you can move in a direction in which it becomes unhealthy, in which you are then becoming obsessive in that one direction and moving it forward and forward and forward. And in that, how it becomes unhealthy is that it takes a toll on your physical body and it takes a toll on your mental state when you are engaging it alone.

TARA: Because you get lost.


TARA: And then you’re not drinking enough water, you’re not paying attention to your aches and pains, you’re not moving enough. And if you try to talk to people you’ve got brain fog, and it’s irritating to talk to them because you’re trying to get through the cobwebs because you were so lost in your flow.

ELIAS: And it creates irritation because you don’t want to be interrupted. That is…

DENISE: So are you still in flow when it’s not beneficial? Would that still fall under –

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

DENISE: — the umbrella of flow?


DENISE: So not all flow is healthy.

ELIAS: No. Not when it crosses a particular line of becoming obsessive and when you are alone. That is the point, is that if you are engaging that state of flow, but you are alone and you keep moving in that state, remember: You lose track of time, you lose track of your senses – which, your senses are also giving you information about your body. So in that, you’re losing touch with your other avenues of communication. You are so focused on that one avenue of communication of imagination, which is providing inspirations and in that, that’s a natural occurrence with imagination; but in that, you can become lost in that.

And what happens if you keep moving in that direction, not only can you ignore your body – and you CAN ignore your body – to the point of considerable detriment to your body. You can actually damage it and not even be aware that you’re doing that. But not only do you move in the direction of detriment to your physical body, but (clears throat) the information that you are engaging and the process that you are engaging also involves your physical brain. And your physical brain, in like manner to your body, has limits. And in that, you can actually engage physical damage to your brain by moving in a direction alone in that flow.

It's very similar to engaging substances, without engaging a substance. You don’t have to engage a substance to create the same type of effect with your body and with your brain. You can do that without substances. Actually, I have expressed previously and I will reiterate, Lawrence became very accomplished at that, at will generating states that most individuals would require actual physical substances to achieve. And Lawrence didn’t need the substances to achieve those states, but –

ANN: Did it damage her brain?

ELIAS: No, but I would say that the reason for that was likely (chuckles) Michael’s irritation. (Group laughter) That Michael was irritated enough that there was a conflict about that, and therefore Lawrence stopped. But it could have created an actual, physical damage if it had been pursued more.

But in that, it's simply an example that that can happen. Just as much as you can generate damage to your body and to your physical brain with other methods, you can do it all on your own also, simply by engaging different states. And that’s the reason that I would encourage all of you to, in a manner of speaking, channel that ability to put yourself in that state of flow, practice with it, but then take the next step in involving other people, moving to different subjects, incorporating expansion about what you’re doing with flow. That is the point, is that you want to be able to engage flow at will, about whatever subject you choose.

ANN: If you get irritated when someone interrupts you, is that an indication that maybe you’re going overboard on the flow or becoming too obsessive about it?

TARA: Or trying to get through brain fog?


MARK: Sounds like a drug!

ELIAS: It is very similar.

Now, in that –

MARK: Done enough of them!

ELIAS: — you might have a moment in which, if you’re interrupted, you may express a very mild annoyance, not necessarily irritation. But in that, then you will likely stop momentarily and make a choice: “Do I want to continue, or do I want to stop?” Generally speaking, it will be a situation in which you will evaluate why are you being interrupted and is that something that is significant. Generally speaking, it will be something significant because you presented it to yourself, and you presented it to yourself to stop, or to change subjects. Not necessarily to stop being in that state of flow, but to change subjects and perhaps to involve other people.

DENISE: You have also suggested to put like short tasks at the beginning of your day so that you can get in flow for a large chunk of it. Correct?

TARA: Sorry, can you say that, what you said, again?

ELIAS: Sometimes people are having difficulty in accomplishing what they want to accomplish within a day, if they put themselves in a state of flow from the beginning of the day and then they don’t accomplish certain things that they are not necessarily wanting to do anyway but that they perceive they should do or that they need to do. And therefore, what I suggested was that it may be easier if you isolate the tasks that you’re not as fond of but that you perceive these are things I need to do, and in that, do those tasks first and then move in a direction of what you can move into flow with. Because in that, once you are IN flow, you likely won’t want to do those tasks that are not what you want to do anyway.

DENISE: Like your three o’clock dentist appointment. (Elias chuckles)

TARA: So put your tasks in the morning, and then you can have the whole afternoon to paint.

ELIAS: Yes. (Group laughter) Yes. Precisely. And in that, this was a suggestion in relation to learning how to put yourself in that expression, that state of being of flow, which is partially what you (indicating John R) were asking about, “How do you put yourself into a state of flow?”

(To Lynda) And I haven’t forgotten you. (Group laughter)

LYNDA: I wish you would. (Group laughter)

JOHN H: Burn!

ELIAS: In that, to begin with it’s a matter of remembering first of all what you HAVE done, being in flow. For example, perhaps thinking about your music and when you are playing your guitar. And in that, recalling the experience, the feeling and what you’re doing, then translating that into whatever it is that you might be engaging.

Now, for the most part what I have expressed to individuals thus far, to practice, is to do the things that you already know you can move into that state of flow with, and practice with that, being in that state of flow more frequently, intentionally. And that gives you a basis in which you are choosing something intentionally: “I know if I am playing the guitar, many times – maybe not always, but many times – I can achieve that state of flow.” And if you can’t, then stop and relax.

JOHN R: Relax.

ELIAS: Because it – (Group laughter)

DENISE: You’re like, “Ooh!” That stumps you. (Group laughter and chatter)

ELIAS: Because if you are doing something that you normally would be able to move into that state of flow and you’re not, then you’re creating some type of agitation.

JOHN R: Yeah, and I can say quite often what’ll happen is, let’s say, I have many days where, I mean, nonstop from the time I wake up to nine hours later, I’ve been in meetings, right? with maybe ten-, fifteen-minute breaks in between with some of those. And then by the end of the day I’m exhausted – and not tired but just a blimp, right? Ready to do something else, and then maybe I want to go do something else, but… And then there is that transition period, and that’s the transition period when I’m already not in my flow towards the end of the day because I’m sort of interest-predicated on being in flow, and then maybe by the 5 p.m. meeting I’m not as interested, you know? Yeah. And then I’m not tired, but I’ve got to transition into being into flow for other things I might be doing after…

ELIAS: Now also, at that point of the day where you’re not interested in being in flow anymore, you actually would GAIN by putting yourself in that state of being in flow.

JOHN R: Oh! So I’m not… I’ve played with that before, but I’m not “forcing energy,” quote-unquote, when I do that?


JOHN R: Oh, I see.

ELIAS: You are intentionally choosing.

JOHN R: That’s the conjuring that you kind of told Fatma about.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

JOHN R: Okay, and then –

ELIAS: Yes. (Group chatter)

(To Lynda) And?

LYNDA: Writing.

ANN: Writing?

LYNDA: I can’t speak to what you just said about organizing my time in certain fashions, like it makes a lot of sense to be in my flow but maybe a different time of day. But I love… What gets me up and out, and out of myself in the morning, is writing. And I get up a half hour earlier, and I already get up very early because I have to be at work early, but I do that because I really want to write. And I’m in the flow, and I’m listening to myself and I’m paying attention to the words I want to use and convey to me and to the paper, and maybe twenty minutes later to a comment on our list that inspires me. Writing; expressing myself. I can very easily get caught up, and I have to stop myself in the morning because I’ve got to get up. I’ve got stuff to do.

ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent.

Now, let me also, in comment to this, express to all of you that another piece of being in that creative state of flow is that you look forward to it – you want to do it. And in that, when you’re not in it, you want to be in it. And therefore there is a natural pull to move in that direction, to be expressing that.

Now; let me express to all of you, in this past year there has been a considerable fascination, let us say, with many individuals about incorporating more essence energy into their lives. This would be it. (Group: “Ooohh!”) Because this is a natural state of being. You have learned how to move out of that natural state of being and to not be expressing in that flow, because you have the perception that you have all these demands on you. (Clapping hands for emphasis) “I have to, have to, have to, have to. I’m doing, doing, doing, doing. I’m busy, busy, busy for nine hours of the day, and then I’m not tired but I want to relax.” But you wouldn’t be agitated and in that state in which you are trying to be relaxed or that you’re trying to find something else to engage that is not demanding, you wouldn’t be experiencing that if you WERE in flow, because it would be easy and natural. And in that, you would be looking forward to every moment that you’re in it. And whenever you’re NOT in it, you’re looking forward to BEING in it. It’s something that is enjoyable. That was what I was expressing to you all earlier, that it’s something that you genuinely enjoy doing. That doesn’t mean you’re always joyful about it, but you enjoy it. And in that, you want to be in it. You want to do it.

ANN: You had said the other day that an easy way to practice being in the state of flow IS to do something you enjoy, but then you can apply it to even something you DON’T enjoy.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: So how does THAT play out?

LYNDA: How do you DO that?

ANN: So you start enjoying it, something you don’t enjoy, when you’re in the state of flow?

ELIAS: Give an example of something you don’t enjoy, that you think you have to do.

ANN: Gathering stuff (crosstalk with others). But yeah, what I really don’t like to do is like gathering all my paperwork at the end of the year to get ready to do taxes.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANN: And adding up the numbers. I hate adding up numbers.

ELIAS: Why do you hate adding up numbers?

ANN: Because, I think it might be just… I get numbers transposed, I just think it’s tedious, I think it’s boring. It’s, um –

MALE: Flow is happening to somebody else.

ANN: It’s boring, I guess.

TARA: You can’t flow! You have to concentrate on the numbers!

ANN: Because I have to concentrate. Maybe it’s, like I’m not a detail-oriented person, and numbers like details. They like to be exact, and I don’t like being exact.

ELIAS: Very well. Then it’s a matter of finding something – it doesn’t matter what it is – finding something in that process that you can possibly perceive somewhat differently. It’s a matter of there are many things in your world that any of you don’t like. There are many subjects that are tedious and that you might even wish you don’t have to engage them.

ANN: Okay, so can I give the example of maybe something I already did do for that? It wasn’t paying my taxes, but I remember way back when, in the old days when we actually had to write out checks to pay our bills. And that, I did not like that. That was a tedious process for me. So I remember thinking, “Oh, I’m going to make this a nice experience.” I get myself a glass of wine, I would set candles, I’d put some nice music on, I’d get a good pen to write with, and I’d be “Woo!” You know? So was I putting myself in the flow then or was I tricking myself? (Group laughter)

ELIAS: I would say that that’s somewhat extreme, but yes.

ANN: Well, it called for extreme measures. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: And if it was successful, then that is what is important. And I would say you don’t necessarily have to move in that type of extreme – not that there’s anything wrong with that.

ANN: But it was the general idea –


ANN: — of what you’re saying.


ANN: Just to do something to make the experience enjoyable, maybe.

ELIAS: And you don’t even have to make the experience entirely enjoyable, because it can morph into that. That if you change something, if you change your perception about something – it doesn’t matter what it is, anything about the subject – and you aren’t approaching the subject from the perspective of “I hate this,” and you are moving in a direction in which you are creating somewhat of a curiosity for yourself: “How can I change how I perceive this subject? How can I make this something that isn’t ‘I hate it?’” It doesn’t have to be “I enjoy this,” because you DON’T enjoy it. But it will likely begin to morph INTO that, because you’re beginning from the point of not hating it. Do you understand?

ANN: Yes. I actually think [inaudible].

ELIAS: (To Yvonne) Yes?

YVONNE: So I perceive this as related to flow, but what is the difference between balance and equilibrium? And sometimes when I’m in flow or trying to get into that, it helps things kind of move more easily.

ELIAS: Balance and equilibrium can be looked at from a physical perspective or from a not-physical perspective. From a physical perspective, balance is the harmony of everything in you and around you. From the physical perspective, equilibrium is the mechanism that creates the ability to physically balance and right yourself.

From a non-physical perspective, balance is (pause), in a manner of speaking, the equality of everything; meaning that you are in harmony with everything. Therefore, from a non-physical perspective, this is the reason that I have expressed you are either in balance or you’re not. There is no half in balance, or “I’m balanced when I’m at work and I’m not balanced when I’m at home,” or “I’m balanced with my family but I’m not balanced with my coworkers.” You can’t be partially balanced and partially not balanced. You are either balanced or you’re not. You’re either in harmony, or you’re not. You’re either in discord or you’re in harmony, because everything is interconnected.

Therefore, as we have discussed about not enough, if you are expressing not enough in one direction, it’s affecting everything. It’s not that you can be expressing not enough in one area and that it doesn’t affect anything else; it does. It affects everything. Even if you don’t see it, it does. Therefore balance, non-physically, means that you are in harmony with everything.

Now, that doesn’t mean that there is equal measure of harmony with everything. That means you may have varying degrees of harmony but that everything is in harmony, and that’s being balanced.

Having equilibrium, non-physically speaking, is being centered. Being centered is not the same as being balanced. Being centered is being grounded in yourself and being aware of yourself and being comfortable with yourself. That’s being centered, which is also the reason that I very strongly with everyone encourage them to be meditating, because meditation is an excellent expression to help you be centered. It’s an excellent tool.

But that would be the definitions of what those two words are in physical and in non-physical capacities.

YVONNE: Okay. So then that’s how… like that also relates, incorporates, or if you’re in those states, it is easier also to get in flow?

ELIAS: Yes and no. It can be. It can be easier to move into a state of flow, but not necessarily. It depends on what the individual is doing and how they are directing themself, because an individual could be balanced and they could be expressing equilibrium and still have difficulty in achieving a flow, because that is that state of being highly focused. And that can be difficult for some people.

MARK: Did you say that we’re naturally drawn to a state of flow? So…

ELIAS: It is a natural state of being.

MARK: But we’re drawn to it?


MARK: Did you say that, is what I’m asking.


MARK: We’re drawn to that. I want to give you a scenario and try to… I’m just making it up. So you’re saying that we’ll intentionally present ourselves – or not even present ourselves, we intentionally create situations to have that state of flow? I don’t think I’m making …

ELIAS: No, not necessarily. Not any longer. I would say that perhaps pre-civilization.

JOHN R: Wait, what was the question?

MARK: Yeah, I’m getting… This is getting more confusing.

ELIAS: That people would be naturally drawn to be in a state of flow.

ERIC: What about young children?

ELIAS: Young children: at times. Not all of them, but most.

ERIC: So I’m thinking like the intensity of purpose. They can change direction without trauma. The number of individuals they engage with can come and go seamlessly…. Not all children, because –

ELIAS: Correct.

ERIC: — we have a soft that didn’t handle change very well. (Group laughter)

JOHN R: It’s the same answer you gave him, right? They get distracted by the screens and the TVs and then that takes the kids out of the flow, right?

ELIAS: Some.

JOHN R: Okay.

MARK: More specifically, I want to clarify my question more. So the example would be, let’s say I feel drawn to a piece of property that’s dilapidated and I want to use my creativity with other people and create a nice place. I’m excited about it, I want to do it, I start doing it, I feel good about it, I’m involving myself with others: that’s the flow we’re talking about?

ELIAS: It might be.

MARK: It might be.

ELIAS: It might not be. It depends.

MARK: Okay.

ELIAS: It depends on what you’re actually doing. It could be, if you are highly focused in what you’re doing. And in that expression of being highly focused, that as I’ve expressed, your other avenues of communications, such as your senses, start to blur. They’re not as sharp because you’re not paying attention to them as much – not that you’re ignoring them, but you’re not paying AS much attention.

MARK: That’s not a bad thing?

ELIAS: No! And in that, you are focused intently on what you’re doing and you are completely in process.

MARK: Right. It’s all about the process.


MARK: You’re all about the process.

ELIAS: You are –

MARK: But you’re saying you need to do that with the inclusion of others, not alone?

ELIAS: You can DO it alone ...

MARK: But as long as you don’t do it to an obsessive –

ELIAS: Correct.

MARK: — compulsive.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARK: All right. I think I’m getting it.

ELIAS: Yes. And you can do it with other individuals also. Just as we’ve had examples with people in their jobs. They’re engaging with other people, but they are very focused and they’re very involved in the process. And in that, they’re creating that directedness and the productivity.

TARA: So technically, what’s happening in the brain? Can you tell us when this is happening? Because you said it can be like a drug. So we’re in this process, and Eric – is that your name? Sorry. Eric expressed he’s in this process and then he gets interrupted and kind of has to get out of it to focus on the person. I find the same thing. It’s almost like you’re in an altered state.

ELIAS: Yes. You ARE in an altered state.

TARA: So what’s happening in the cobwebs in there? (Laughs)

ELIAS: You ARE in an altered state.

Now, let me express that that altered state, centuries and centuries and centuries and eons ago, used to be normal. (Group: “Wow.”) But now it’s not, because pre-civilization it was normal. In the ensuence of civilization, it became not normal because you switched, in a manner of speaking, to being very concentrated on what everyone else is doing.

TARA: And technology and gadgets and TV and na-na-na.

ELIAS: As civilization continued and advanced, and yes, then you introduced technology into everything and that has moved things even more in those directions.

But what actually is happening is there are actual chemical reactions that happen in your brain when you engage certain states, certain states of being. In this, your sciences will move in the directions of classifying certain states of the brain in which you are achieving states of euphoria or states of disassociation. What’s happening in your physical brain when you move into the state of creativity and flow is that your attention is key, and your attention is influencing the function of the spray and the synapses in your physical brain.

The spray and the synapses, in what you would term to be a normal state of being, not a state of flow, are almost – not quite, but almost – randomly firing. Because they are firing in many different areas of your physical brain, and they’re firing at the same time.

This is what I was expressing to you about many lines of thought. You think that you are expressing one thought process, one subject. You’re thinking, and in your thinking you have one subject that you’re thinking about – but you’re not. This subject arose in relation to a question about mind-reading versus energy reading. Energy reading is (chuckles) much more precise, because if you could mind-read – which you can’t; no one can, regardless of what they want to tell you. In this, if you could mind-read, it would be tremendously confusing. Essences don’t mind-read because – not that they can’t – but because it’s tremendously confusing. Because humans have between ten and twenty lines of thought moving and being expressed at the same time! You’re always thinking about so many different things, and in your thinking, even though you have one primary line of thinking, all the other lines of thinking are equally as important to you. Therefore they are, to an outside source, indistinguishable. They are all equally important.

Now; that is your normal state. What is happening in your physical brain in your normal state is, both hemispheres of your brain are firing in many different areas of your brain at the same time. Because your thinking doesn’t originate in your brain, but your brain is a receptor for your thinking, and it’s translating that thinking – even though your thought mechanism is a translating mechanism – then your brain is translating that into the 1s and 0s, the impulses, the electrical impulses.

And in that, you have these receptors in your brain. They all look like tiny spiders. You have thousands of tiny spiders in your brain. (Group laughter) And those tiny spiders are all firing, and they’re all spraying, and that spray is hitting different grooves in your brain, and it’s putting those 1s and 0s into those grooves. That’s information.

Now; what happens when you engage certain substances – because you believe that they affect you in certain manners, they do – and what happens is they stop certain spiders from spraying and they focus on only a few. And in that, what happens with that is if your brain isn’t firing all the time, in a manner of speaking, it becomes –

TARA: It loses the synapses and neurotransmitters and they become closed.

ELIAS: It closes them. It doesn’t lose them. They don’t become… They don’t become completely damaged, but yes, in like manner to a flower that closes, they close and they’re inoperative.

Now, that doesn’t mean that they can’t BECOME operative, but what it does mean is that it requires some time for you to activate them. You, in a manner of speaking, in your common vernacular, have to kickstart them. You have to concentrate to make those synapses wake up and be active again, because they’re not active.

Now, what happens when you are in a state of flow – which is, (softly) I would say, beautiful – is that all of those synapses are working, but they’re all working in the same direction.

TARA: Now I understand what the benefit of being in flow is. Thank you.

ELIAS: They’re not simply randomly firing, but they’re all moving together in a flow. Your physical brain is actually generating a harmony. It’s… It IS beautiful. It’s –

TARA: Like a school of fish moving together.

ELIAS: Yes. Or a symphony.

TARA: Wow.

ELIAS: That is what your brain does in flow.

Now, what it does if you move beyond that certain point, then it starts to move in the cloud again. And then it is reacting to actually a lack of stimulus, because you’ve been too much in one direction and you have no outside input. And therefore what happens is, is those little spiders then start to close up again because there’s not enough stimulus, therefore your synapses stop firing. And in that, then you’re not getting enough stimulation and you can actually damage those synapses. And you can actually create damage to the neurological grooves, your neurological pathways, because there’s no spray hitting them anymore.

PHIL: It’s like running an engine without oil.


TARA: So it’s good to change gears in your flow, changing gears.


TARA: Different subjects.


TARA: And integrate with people, then go back to your flow.


TARA: So changing. Okay.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. And you don’t have to do it quickly, but it is important that you are changing and that you are incorporating more subjects than only one. And when you are in one, what is also significant is to include challenge, and you can do this naturally – meaning that it’s not enough to simply be in flow and repeating what you already know, but to stretch and to move beyond what you already know; incorporate new.

ANN: Can you define laziness, before you go? (Group laughter) You know I’m curious.

ELIAS: Laziness is the propensity to disinterest –

ANN: Ooh, really?

ELIAS: — and to not want to incorporate effort and do much of anything.

YVONNE: That’s different than creating with ease.

ELIAS: Oh very much so. Yes.

TARA: Well, that’s a good point.

DENISE: Or the in-between state. Is it similar to in-between state?

ELIAS: Laziness?

DENISE: Mm-hm.




DENISE: I’ll continue with that in my session.

JOHN R: You surprised me because when Mark asked, when I responded for him in that thing, he followed up and he asked was I in flow when I said that, and you said I was not.

ELIAS: No, you were not.

JOHN R: And I was trying to think, how was I not in flow, and all I can come up with is well, I’m a little restless in my chair, you have to pee, whatever. Right?

ELIAS: Flow doesn’t necessarily mean relaxed.

JOHN R: Right.

ANN: Or connection.

ELIAS: I would say you were relaxed.

JOHN R: But I wasn’t fully focused.

ELIAS: You were not.

JOHN R: Okay. Yeah, yeah.

ELIAS: And in that, you weren’t focused on yourself and you weren’t directing and you weren’t moving in a direction of the productivity. You didn’t have all of the components.

JOHN R: Yeah.

DENISE: He just had a really good impression.

ANN: But he was connecting with Mark.


JOHN R: The product!

ANN: So he was connecting… Just because you’re connecting with somebody…

JOHN R: But I had the imagination thing…

ANN: You had an impression, right?

ELIAS: You can engage imagination. You can have impressions. You can have intuition. You can be connecting with someone else.

ANN: You were reading his mind. (Group laughter)

JOHN R: But I was not productive.

ELIAS: But that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re expressing flow.

JOHN R: So what could I have done differently to have put that in flow? Is that even a valid question?


ANN: It’s a good question.

MARK: It’s an excellent question.

ELIAS: I would say that if you were including paying attention to him and you were engaging your imagination, if you were also focused on how you could incorporate that a step further for yourself, how you could take what was being expressed – because the flow is about you; it’s not about the other person.

MARK: So you could start your own trucking company.

JOHN R: Yeah!

ELIAS: Therefore if you were to take what you were engaging and connecting with him, and then applying that to you and how could you use that in some manner, then that would have been moving yourself in the direction of flow.

MARK: So are you saying that if he would have taken that step and let’s say… I know that he travels a lot for his work, so while he’s traveling if he was to somehow utilize that time?

ELIAS: Yes. That would be. Yes.

JOHN R: Repeat that again.

MARK: To be productive.

ELIAS: That would have been an example, yes.

MARK: I’ll repeat it. Because you travel, if you would have taken that a step further and said, “Okay, then to be in my own flow, while I’m traveling, I’m going to use that time to be more productive in what I do.”

JOHN R: Okay.

MARK: Is that correct, Elias?


JOHN R: Oh, learning from your flow.


JOHN R: And then applying it to me.

ELIAS: Yes. Because YOU are, because it’s your flow. Therefore if YOU are being in flow, it’s how are you taking in the information and applying it to you.

JOHN R: Okay. All right. So I stopped short in that particular example. Got it.

JOHN H: How important is it to lose your concept of time? Is that like a key indicator you’re in flow, or is it always the case?

ELIAS: That is a key component. I would say that yes, what I have outlined, these are all key components. And when you don’t have one of them, then you’re likely not in flow. It doesn’t mean that you’re entirely oblivious to time, but that it does lose its importance. That that is, yes, a key component.

ANN: I know I asked this earlier, even today, but can you just one more time tell us how to know the difference between when we’re in flow and when we’re obsessed? I asked that earlier. I know I did, didn’t I?

DENISE: Didn’t he answer it once? Just be alone.

ELIAS: And you were…

ANN: No, can you be obsessed with other people? Right? That’s not necessarily a component. Correct?

ELIAS: What I was expressing was when you are alone.

ANN: Right. But can you be in… So what is the difference?

JOHN R: That’s that hyper-aware we were talking about. Hyper-aware, which you’re not supposed to do.

ANN: Oh, hyper-aware is obsession?

ELIAS: Which, that is different from being highly aware or highly focused. It isn’t aware.

ANN: So what’s the difference between flow and obsession and highly aware and hyper-aware?

ELIAS: Very well. Highly aware is being very concentrated on a particular subject and what you’re doing; in a manner of speaking, being very streamlined. You are focused on what you’re doing, not to the exclusion of EVERYTHING, but that this is the main aspect of what you are paying attention to, a particular subject.

Hyper-aware, or hyper-focused, would be more of an extreme, and that would be more in the direction of excluding everything other than that one subject.

The component of becoming obsessed, when you are in flow, moving from being in flow to being obsessed? Being obsessed moves you in a direction in which you begin to create agitation. Now you’re not comfortable any longer with what you’re doing. It moves from something that you enjoy doing and that you are enjoying doing to being something that you are compelled to do, and there is a component of agitation in that.

Therefore, when you’re interrupted when you’re in flow, you might have a moment, as I expressed, of being annoyed, but mildly annoyed, and it would only be a moment. Because there is an awareness of some type that you know you’ve interrupted yourself. You know you created that interruption, and therefore you use it to check with yourself what your choices are. When you move past that point and you move into obsession and you’re interrupted, you’re irritated. You don’t want to be interrupted. You are, “I need to do this.”

YVONNE: To me, any of those extreme states feel kind of like this intense wheel just going around and around and around.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

ANN: And you know it doesn’t feel good, when you’re in it, too.

DEBBIE: You need to take it out. You take yourself out. Yeah.

CHRISTINA: Elias, I feel like I used to, there was a time when I could go into a state of flow like at will, but not anymore. (Laughs) Is that accurate?

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. And this is also the reason that I have expressed that it can be very, very helpful to remember past states of flow, because that can help you to recreate that now.

(Pause) Very well.

MARK: I’ve got one more.

ELIAS: Very well.

MARK: I’m trying to process. You say everything’s interconnected. I’m trying to process my session, my personal session. It’s everything backwards for me. Usually I have a session after, instead I had a session before. So I’m making an assumption and I’m just looking for a validation that in order to be in flow, I have to be paying attention to myself?

ELIAS: Initially, yes. And in some capacity throughout.

MARK: And also –

ELIAS: But let me express that when you are in flow, you don’t separate the subject from yourself any longer.


JOHN R: That’s deep!

MARK: So, my session started with the word “evolve,” and this is part of that?


MARK: Okay. Thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

Very well, my friends. I shall greatly be looking forward to our next meeting. I express tremendous, tremendous encouragement to each and every one of you. Practice! And I have no doubt that you will all accomplish, and enjoy yourselves doing it.

GROUP: Thank you, Elias. (Applause)

ELIAS: You are very welcome. In wondrous love to each one of you and in dear friendship, as always, au revoir.

GROUP: Au revoir.

[1] Elias had previously stated the subject of this session beforehand in private sessions.

[2] Elias had previously given this definition in private sessions.

[3] In transcripts, when someone is addressing him, John R (Rrussell) is referred to occasionally by his alternate name, Finou.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 30 minutes. Total session time was 2 hours 27 minutes.)

Copyright 2023 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.