Meditation; Creating a Puppet; Experiencing a Probable Self
“Calmness, Peacefulness and Evenness”
“Awareness of the Process of Building”
“Beauty of Meditation”
“Manifesting a Puppet”
“Experiencing a Probable Self”
Saturday, September 16, 2023 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Nuno (Lystell)
ELIAS: Good morning!
NUNO: Hello, my friend. (Elias laughs) And warm greetings to you as well!
ELIAS: Excellent! And I would say that with this friendly greeting on this morning, how shall we proceed? In fun.
NUNO: In fun. I’d like to proceed in fun. I would just want to begin by saying that in our last discussion, I asked you if you had any questions for me. And I just want to say that actually that was one of the most enjoyable parts of our discussion for me, and I thought it was actually quite beneficial to me.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Excellent. (Chuckles)
NUNO: So I was planning on this being kind of more flexible and open, as the way you suggested. So I do have a number of kind of things to talk about, but I wanted it to be more, as you suggested, something of more of a discussion rather than me just asking you endless questions. But I don’t really know how to begin with that.
ELIAS: I would say, begin as you would engage a conversation with anyone.
NUNO: Okay. I can do that. I’ve been experiencing things in the past few days that are kind of different. It started Thursday night. I had a hike with a friend, and so when I got home it was already getting towards my bedtime. And I thought okay, I’ll just go to bed. Because of the hike, I’ll probably go to sleep real soon. But instead what happened was I just laid awake for hours and hours, and I could feel that my body consciousness was just accessing large volumes of my energy. I can feel that. But the other piece, though, in that was that I was really, really calm. I had this kind of calmness within me that I associate with my experiences with psilocybin, which is when I also get very, very calm.
The interesting thing is that it stayed with me, that sense of calmness, into the next morning and it actually… It’s still with me today and it’s not just calmness. It’s just… I can’t really describe it. It’s just a sense that everything is all okay. So (Elias chuckles) I guess that’s what’s been happening in the past few days. And I don’t know, maybe you’ve got something to say about that or maybe you don’t. I don’t know.
ELIAS: I would say that is tremendous, and I would say that that’s also a huge accomplishment. Because THAT, my dear friend, is more of what you’ve been striving for, in wanting to be expressing more of your energy as being the being that you are as essence and experiencing that more in your actual, physical reality. And this is a definite piece of that and I would be tremendously acknowledging you in that. Well done! That’s an accomplishment.
NUNO: Well, thank you. Sometimes I get the impression that I tend to move in quantum steps, in that I will make some quantum step in my… I don’t know what the word is. I was going to say expansion, but you’re going to say that we’re always expanding so that doesn’t really make sense. But anyway, so it’s my energy work I guess, would be what to say. And this is… I think it’s happened a few times before also, where I do my energy work for periods of time, maybe months even, and I don’t seem to be going anywhere and then there is this quantum step, in which I see a whole lot of change in me. And maybe that’s what happened this time, too.
ELIAS: I would say that that also is very understandable because in that time that you don’t necessarily see any change, what’s happening is there are changes that are occurring inwardly and you’re moving in a direction of that preparation. And in a manner of speaking, you could liken it to building something. And in the process of building something, it doesn’t necessarily look like whatever it is that you intend to build in its finished form, but that’s what you’re doing. You’re building in energy and then suddenly it comes to fruition and there you have the structure that you’ve built. And it’s one of those actions that is somewhat surprising but not, because you know that you are moving in that direction. You simply aren’t necessarily seeing how you’re placing each building block together with each other building block to create the finished product. And in that, when it’s finished, then you do see it.
Now; what I would say is for you, moving in the directions that you have been for quite some time now, I would say that perhaps one of the next steps is to be actually able to see or be aware of, even in part, that action of putting those building blocks together. Therefore you don’t have to be paying attention to the entire process of putting those building blocks together, but it could be encouraging to be able to tap into yourself and to see occasionally when you are in that process. Because it’s always a situation in which when you’re an in-between or when you are generating these types of processes and you’re not objectively aware of it, many times it seems and feels as if you’re not doing anything but you are, and it could be encouraging to be able to tap into what you’re doing. Even if you don’t know what that’s actually leading to, it still would be encouraging to have a glimpse into that process of building. Do you understand?
NUNO: I do, very much. I’m just wondering, in order to have that kind of awareness, how would that information be presented to me?
ELIAS: (Pause) I would say it could be presented in different capacities. It might be as simple as a feeling, but it could be as complex as presenting something to yourself during a meditation or during dreams or during a visualization or when you’re doing your energy work and exercises. And in that, it might be more complex by actually showing yourself glimpses of what you’re doing, or glimpses of a direction. And in that, at, it could be at times seeming to be somewhat cryptic, because it might be symbolic, or it could be actually quite literal but in pieces, and therefore it wouldn’t necessarily seem to be straightforward, even though it might be. In that, you might give yourself glimpses of different acts that you are engaging that you are moving in directions with.
What was the last thing that you had a realization of, of something that was accomplished?
NUNO: I think it was what I just described to you, my experience Thursday night.
ELIAS: Very well. That’s actually a good example because in that, you are giving yourself the experience of that peacefulness, that evenness, and in that you might describe it as calm but it’s more than that. And in that, if you were peeking into the process of coming to that fruition, perhaps you would see yourself moving in directions of (pause) recognizing your own experience of contentment, but how that translates in different scenarios and different situations.
Therefore you might give yourself a picture of an experience that you had with your partner or an interaction with a friend or an interaction with your children. And in that, you’re giving yourself glimpses into the process that is leading you in the direction of having this experience. And it might also be at times when you are alone and you are experiencing that (pause) sublime expression of yourself, and not for any particular reason. And it might only be momentary, but then in glimpsing you might notice several times that you’ve had that fleeting experience. And that gives you a peek into what you’re moving into, what the direction is that you’re doing, and in that, in relation to your intention of being more yourself in this focus and not only experiencing in the capacity of that piece and that sublime expression of yourself, but also recognizing the power in that.
NUNO: Yes. The power in it. I do recognize the power in it. It is very powerful.
ELIAS: In that, my friend, I would say that you could be recognizing moments of that and that those are leading you in a direction that you might not see the outcome yet, but it would serve to encourage you, knowing that you are moving in a direction, knowing that you are actually actively engaging in a process, even if it doesn’t seem to be that objectively in your daily life. Because the moments that you might be experiencing parts of that process might be fleeting enough that you pay attention to them in that moment, but then you forget.
NUNO: I think I understand that. And I do see, I definitely see the value in what you’re saying of having an awareness of my progress or having an awareness of those building blocks, as you say, coming into place, that that would be very motivating for me.
ELIAS: I would agree, and encouraging also. Because there are so many times when individuals are frustrated because they don’t see what they’re doing objectively. And regardless that I say to you that you are moving, that you are accomplishing, when you don’t see it objectively yourself or when you see pieces that are so fleeting that you don’t remember them and you’re not putting them together to create a picture in a manner of speaking, then regardless that I may be offering that encouragement it seems not encouraging. Because you automatically will think, “Very well. You see something I don’t see, but it doesn’t matter because I don’t see it.”
NUNO: Mm, I don’t think I discount your encouragements that much. (Chuckles) I don’t think I discount it at all. It’s—
ELIAS: I understand. I understand, but I would also say that YOU anymore, I’m not expressing in relation to past but at this point, and I would say for the past few years, you have not engaged in as much of an in-between as other people do. It doesn’t mean you’re not moving in those directions of building and not necessarily seeing how you’re building something or what you’re building or what direction you’re moving in, but that the time frameworks in which you’re in that in-between are much shorter than most individuals because you do move in these directions of working with yourself on a daily basis and paying attention to what you’re doing and moving yourself in more and more of a capacity for openness with yourself.
NUNO: I’m not clear on what you mean by in-between. In-between what?
ELIAS: (Laughs) And that’s precisely what I am expressing to you (laughs), that everyone has time frameworks in which they are in a process of something, a process of moving and becoming more aware and being more open. They’re growing. And for most individuals, that time framework can be, in their perception, lengthy. It isn’t actually tremendously lengthy, but it could last for months in which they are not necessarily aware of what they’re engaging, what the process is that they’re engaging, and it feels to them as if they’re not doing anything and they don’t seem to be moving forward. They’re not necessarily moving backwards. They simply feel as if they’re at a stalemate and that they’ve stalled and they’re not moving at all. And it can be frustrating.
Now; for YOU those periods of time are relatively short, and therefore it’s not something that you generally will be considerably frustrated with. But even you have your moments in which you can become somewhat impatient because you don’t seem to be moving as quickly as you want to be. That would be the in-between.
NUNO: Okay. I understand that and I suppose I could think back to periods when that occurs. I think these days I do at times feel like I’m in that in-betweenness but it doesn’t concern me so much anymore, I think.
ELIAS: Correct. And I would say that one of the reasons that it doesn’t concern you as much anymore is because you’ve shortened that time and you’ve done that by genuinely paying attention to what you’re doing and catching yourself if you begin to move in an expression that is not beneficial.
NUNO: I think so. Yes. And there’s a lot of room for improvement in that, but that’s definitely a significant intent of mine, is being more aware of what I am doing so that I can, as you say, catch myself when I’m moving in a direction that’s not beneficial.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct. And I would say that THAT comes with being present. And I would say that you have practiced that considerably.
NUNO: Thank you. I do feel I—
ELIAS: You are welcome.
NUNO: — am making some good progress with that. So I’ve—
ELIAS: Very much so.
NUNO: Sorry. Please continue.
ELIAS: I was simply expressing an acknowledgment: very much so. Because in that, I would say that you have not only theoretically realized the benefit of being present and how important it is, and therefore catching yourself very quickly whenever you step out of that. (Pause)
NUNO: Yeah. I think you see it more clearly than I do, but I’m glad that you’re expressing to me that that’s where I’m at. So I’m beginning to take meditation more seriously.
NUNO: And I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that because I’m doing it a little bit, in a little bit unconventional manner in that I… when I meditate, I incorporate Ahmal’s energy into the exercise, into the meditation I should say, and I feel for me that that’s helpful. One of the things I’ve noticed with myself in the meditation though is, in addition to Ahmal’s energy, I seem to also automatically without really intending to, to pull in more of my energy as well, into the meditation. That seems to happen almost automatically. So I don’t know if that degrades the purpose of the meditation, but—
ELIAS: No. Why would it?
NUNO: I don’t know. I’m… Because… I don’t know. It’s just a question I have, actually. I think that it doesn’t and I experience in those periods of meditation actually, when I’m able to get into a good state of meditation I will experience, for example, those dream snippets that we talked about at one time. So maybe I’m starting to go into a theta state. I guess what I’m expressing to you is that the meditation is, seems to be more expansive for me than just simple meditation.
ELIAS: Of course. That is very understandable. And I would say that the more open you become, the more you expand with yourself, the more your meditations will change because your act of meditating reflects your state of being. Therefore it evolves as you evolve. And that is the beauty of meditation, is that it changes and it keeps evolving and growing in relation to how you evolve and grow. And in that, the more you grow and the more your meditation grows, the more effective it is and the more you can accomplish with it.
NUNO: Okay. Well, it’s… Like I say, it’s been quite enjoyable and I’m just beginning in that and I’m not always successful in achieving what I would call a deep meditation but when I do, I’m actually able to sustain it for a long time. Of course you know the biggest challenge is—
ELIAS: That’s another piece, that the more you move in a direction of accomplishing with meditation, the longer you can sustain it and the longer you want to sustain it. AND the longer you do and want to, again, the more you can accomplish. And what happens is, that carries through after you are finished with your meditation and you are engaging your daily life. It carries through into your daily life. It’s a state of being that is established through the act of meditation, which creates that centeredness and balance that are so valuable.
NUNO: Yes. I think I’m beginning to recognize the value of that. (Elias laughs) So definitely—
NUNO: (Chuckles) Thank you. Yeah. I do have a question here, something that Scott is very curious about, and I am too. To begin, I recall that many years ago I had a discussion with you, at least I think it was a discussion with you, about… I can’t remember what the discussion was about, but you mentioned in that discussion puppets, a puppet being a human form that looks like an ordinary person but is not actually connected to another focus. It is a pure manifestation of whoever created the puppet. Do you recall that?
NUNO: Okay. So I haven’t hallucinated this. So the question is… (Both laugh) Because I looked all over my sessions and I couldn’t find any record of this. But the question is, let us say for comparison purposes, how difficult is it to generate one of these puppets as compared to say, manifesting a rock?
ELIAS: (Pause) It may be less difficult to generate that action than to generating a rock, simply because it’s something that you don’t necessarily have preconceived ideas about. With a rock, it’s a physical manifestation that you already know. You know what it is. You know what it looks like. And therefore, it’s something that you already have an idea that you can’t do that. But with this, it’s a part of you. Therefore, it’s an extension of you.
Now; what I would say is, it’s similar to an animal. An animal companion that you might have, as you have had, is an extension of you. It’s an extension of your energy. And I’ve had many conversations and discussions with people through time about the possibility or the action of them creating another manifestation of an animal that disengages. That when their animal companion dies, many people have asked about creating another manifestation of that animal, because it IS a part of their energy. It’s a projection of their energy.
This would be very similar, and people actually relatively frequently move in the direction of configuring the energy of an animal that was a companion of theirs into another one. And this would be a similar type of action, because it’s a projection of your energy.
The difference, which would make it even somewhat easier, is that this is a projection of your energy in a type of mirror image of yourself – or you could configure it into a different image, if you were so choosing – but it doesn’t have a personality of its own, whereas an animal does. It’s something that you create entirely. You create every aspect of it. With an animal, you’re creating the configuration of energy into an animal, but that’s about as much as you do. In that, the animal, once it is manifest, has its own choices, has its own personality and moves in its own direction. With this type of manifestation, you’re manipulating that entirely. Therefore that would be the difference in the configuration of energy, that this type of manifestation is one that doesn’t have its own direction. It’s whatever you choose.
NUNO: That’s interesting. I’ve been thinking that that kind of a manifestation is very similar to or maybe identical to what someone in Regional Area Two creates when they encounter other people.
ELIAS: Very, very similar, except that when an individual dies and they are continuing to create physical, objective imagery, then there is a difference with this also. Because they can create that image of individuals that they have known – and they do – and in that, they can be creating all of the expressions of those images, but they also can receive energy directly from those individuals that remain in physical focus, through those holes, and they can be configuring some of that energy into the image of the person.
Now; it’s limited, but they can configure some of that energy into the images that they’ve created of people. They’re not interacting directly with the individuals in physical focus, they – but they are, indirectly, because they are configuring that energy into the image that they’ve created. But only to the degree in which it agrees with whatever they’re creating. They never create something that they disagree with, until they remember their death. But in that, it would be very similar because when an individual is creating that objective imagery and they are creating the image of people that they knew in physical focus, for the most part they’re doing that alone. (Pause)
Now; what I would say to you is, this is also what people can create. They don’t do it very often, but it has been known to happen. People sometimes move in a direction of wanting to express a relationship with someone that doesn’t want to express a relationship with them. And in that, they may express to myself, “If I’m creating all of my reality, then I should be able to create a relationship with this individual.” Mm, you can, but not necessarily with their attention. And that’s what that means, that yes, you can create the image of an individual that you want to have a relationship with, and you can create that situation in which they are essentially a puppet. They are not the other individual, and they don’t have the other individual’s attention, but they might look and sound very much like the other individual because you can create that.
NUNO: Well, that would be an interesting area to explore.
ELIAS: (Laughs) It’s an interesting situation when an individual is invested in another individual and wants to be engaging a relationship with them. And if they succeed in creating the actual image of the other individual, they very quickly become very disappointed because (chuckles) they begin to realize that they are engaging something that doesn’t have its own personality and doesn’t make its own choices. It does whatever you express for it to do.
NUNO: And for some people, that would be just fine.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I understand. (Both laugh) I would say that a genuine narcissist would be quite happy with that situation. (Both laugh)
NUNO: I’ve been giving some thought to subjects like probable selves and what is, what is it like to be essence outside of focus, those kinds of things, and I kind of had a couple questions on that. One I think I already know the answer to, and that it’s probably no. But I was wondering if it’s possible to shift into another probable self?
ELIAS: (Sighs) (Pause) Now; what I am about to say to you is (slowly) yes, it is possible, just as it is possible to shift into the being of another focus. Is it advisable? No. And the reason being that (sighs) every individual, every focus, every probable self, every individual has its own personality, has its own value fulfillment and is unique unto itself. This is the reason that I have expressed repeatedly that when you die, you don’t simply absorb back into essence. You already ARE essence.
Now; in that, all of your probable selves are you as essence and all of your focuses are you as essence. But in that, this is one of those subjects that is very difficult to express and it’s very difficult to understand in physical focus, any physical focus, because this is the piece about no separation. But in that, you understand it as separation, that each thing, each individual has their own personality and is autonomous. And that is true, but (chuckles) each individual also is essence, which is there is no separation in. In this, as everything IS you, yes, it is possible. It’s difficult by design, intentionally because it’s unadvisable, but it is possible to do it.
Now; what I would also say is, if an individual is more self-aware and therefore is being responsible to self, I would say that an individual could, for the experience, move in a direction of exchanging or moving into the experience of a probable self temporarily. And (slowly) if they don’t change anything, it could be an interesting experience. Therefore, if you maintained your awareness of yourself at the same time as moving into the experience of the probable self, then you would much less likely be inclined to change anything. But that wouldn’t be the experience that you were asking of. That would be different.
[The timer for the end of the session rings]
NUNO: I guess what comes to mind here is that if I can do that, then another probable self can do it as well.
NUNO: And then that creates like a question: what if some other probable self wants to like, in a manner of speaking, invade this probable self?
ELIAS: This is the reason that it’s difficult to do it, to safeguard, in a manner of speaking, all of the different selves and the integrity of them. (Pause) Because you’re correct. Otherwise, any probable self could be moving into the physical manifestation of any other probable self and could be affecting of them and could be changing their experience. Which would essentially corrupt the integrity of the individual. (Pause)
NUNO: Okay. It sounds like a really bad idea.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I would very much agree. (Both laugh) It’s definitely not a good idea. (Both laugh)
NUNO: All right. Very well, my friend. Thank you very much. I really enjoyed our discussion today and it was, it was very good.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And I thoroughly have enjoyed it also. I would acknowledge you that that last subject is a very bad idea, and not to encourage you to try it. (Laughs)
In tremendous, tremendous love and friendship to you and (laughs) much anticipation of our next meeting, and perhaps we shall find some other playful subject to engage conversation about (chuckles).
In great acknowledgment of you, my friend, and tremendous support as always, au revoir.
NUNO: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour 1 minute)
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