Session 202306051

Animal Senses; Necromancers; Judgment of Others


“Honoring Yourself”
“Animal Senses”
“War and Judgment”
“What IS That Expression of Paying Attention to You?”
“Ordin and Communicating with Nature”

Monday, June 5, 2023 (Private)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Ann (Vivette)

ELIAS: Good morning!

ANN: Good morning.

ELIAS: (Laughs) And what shall we discuss?

ANN: Well, I have a lot of little different topics all over the place. We will see if it presents a theme.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANN: (Whispers) Maybe. (Elias laughs) But first, just you know me, curiosity. We had two new people at the group session and I love to do my little impressions of their stats. And then I was brainstorming with Lynda and other people, but anyhow I wrote notes and I couldn’t find them. So just now, I just went boom, boom, boom, my first impressions. So we will see if they were impressions or guessing. (Elias laughs) I think they were impressions.

All right. So for Ben, I think he’s thought-focused.


ANN: All right. I think he’s Sumafi/Ilda.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: Ooh! Intermediate?

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: All right. And then for Xuan, I think she’s political.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: Gramada. That’s weird, because I don’t know why I got Gramada, but Gramada just kept throwing itself in my face.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: And I remember you saying sometimes that’s the hard one. And then Sumari? I wasn’t sure of that one. (Elias nods) Sumari. Okay. And then common for her? Or soft?

ELIAS: Soft.

ANN: Okay. Yes. Sometimes I don’t know why, you would think they’re so different, but common and softs. Okay. So essence name for Ben?

ELIAS: One moment. (Pause) Essence name: Trae (Tray), T-R-A-E.

ANN: All right. And what about Xuan?

ELIAS: (Pause) Essence name: True (Troo), T-R-U-E.

ANN: Well that’s kind of fun. Interesting. And they’ve got to be soulmates, and then they are soulmates with all of us in the Elias forum too? Or most of us?

ELIAS: No, but some.

ANN: Oh. Okay. Okay. Well, cool! Cool, cool, cool. Then as long as we’re on the topic of other people, I’m going to just do this (Elias chuckles) and then I’m going to concentrate on me. (Elias chuckles) All right, Golden asked. He wanted to get your opinion about something, and I said well, you have to phrase it in a question, and he says no, just from what I commented on. And I go, I need a question. (Both laugh) So I had him focus his question, and this is his question. Well, I’ll read the last three little comments he said. So here’s the piece: “Mary has hoped to divert some of her session work to someone else. I haven’t reached that level of confidence yet, so this Elias statement is step one.” So I guess this is to help his confidence. Reposting it – okay, so his question is: “Elias, Golden (LeAnza) asked if you would present a statement about his energy exchange as a form of introduction embossed with the great seal, that he could share with the forum.”

ELIAS: (Pause) What I would say is that this energy exchange has a tremendous potential to be developing in a capacity to be offering significant information to individuals. It’s different than myself, but it’s also an energy exchange that likely will target younger individuals, but in doing so may also potentially inspire older individuals in that process and motivate them to be more involved in many different capacities and in different directions. Older individuals have a tendency to become less involved and in that, that’s not bad. But in the later part of this shift, it may be significant for older people to be being more involved.

ANN: Okay.

ELIAS: And to be moving with the younger people in many different capacities, and sometimes older people are more reluctant to be moving in harmony with younger people. They don’t understand them or they are somewhat set in their own direction of what they know, and not as open to new directions and new expressions. But I would say that that may be something that this energy exchange can bridge.

ANN: Do you think…? I remember my last session, you said that in our society, in the United States, sometimes old people act like they don’t really care and they say whatever they want because they feel that they’re not respected. Do you think that this would then also help for the younger people maybe to start respecting the older people? Or just to help the older and younger people—


ANN: — move more—


ANN: — in tandem or supporting each other, both ways?


ANN: That would be nice. Thank you. And then Mutha had wanted me to ask a question about some pain in his shoulder, but when I was mentioning it to Mary, Mary suggested that he ask about his own session, and if he didn’t have enough for an hour, that he should maybe just do a half hour. So do you have anything that you think could be helpful to offer to me to offer to him, or do you think it would be more helpful for him just to engage you one-on-one?

ELIAS: (Pause) For the most part, I would say that it’s almost always more beneficial for the individual to engage their own conversation with myself, because it allows for a greater flow. I can ask questions to the individual and they can respond, whereas when they are doing that by proxy, that’s much more difficult.

ANN: Yeah. And it’s… Like sometimes questions that people ask me to ask for them, I don’t really… It just doesn’t feel like my questions. I don’t know all the nuances and I don’t know, so it’s, it feels kind of like a bandaid or something, or just a little nod.

ELIAS: Stop-gap.

ANN: Yeah, a stop-gap. So, all right.

ELIAS: I would say it’s definitely more beneficial for the individual to interact directly.

ANN: Okay, I will offer him that. All right. So now, my various questions. I took notes this time (Elias chuckles) and it’s all over the place, but I don’t care. Let me see which one I want to… Oh, let me ask—oh! Well first of all, let me ask: so John and I are thinking about selling our property in Cabo and first of all, before when we would talk about, because we have two, we have the one in Cabo and the one in North Carolina, and when we were talking about selling them, I kind of always wanted to keep the North Carolina one and he always wanted to keep the Cabo one. And then one day out of the blue, he goes “Oh! I think we should sell Cabo.” He thinks that it might give him more flexibility if he wants to start to retire or work part-time or… And we don’t go there as often. I mean, we go there maybe three, four weeks a year. And originally we were buying it as maybe a place that we might live inexpensively when we retire, which Cabo is not inexpensive. But it just seems… To me, it just seems far away. We don’t get there that much and I feel like my attentions are elsewhere. So he said he wants to sell it, and then I’m like ooh! Should we sell or should we not?

And I’m trying to listen to myself and you know, it’s interesting, what you were saying about impressions or maybe your intuitions, and that gets all mixed up with, “Oh, but what if we’re making the wrong decision or selling it too soon? Or what if it would have been better to hang onto it?” And I, for whatever reason, I feel just a little nervous about making the decision, but… Might be an underlying thing. And when I get to a clearer place, like when I’m not in my head so much but more clear, it feels yeah, it might be nice to sell it. Yeah, it just seems like the thing to do. But I still, you know…

So, do you have anything to say about that? (Pause) One – and I know you don’t tell people what to do, so it’s kind of a two-part question – one, yeah, it would be great if you could say, “Yes, Ann, sell it,” “No Ann, don’t sell it,” but I know one, you don’t like to do that, and then I also know it’s futile for you to do that because I know I could change the thing in the whole very next moment. So I realize that’s a futile question, but so more, I guess in the lines of me being comfortable with the decisions I’m making and feeling empowered with my decision-making process, how I want to move into it.

ELIAS: Remember what I expressed about choices. They’re never black and white. They’re never either-or.

ANN: Yes.

ELIAS: You always have more than two choices. And in that (pause) you’re already moving yourself in the direction of wanting to sell it. The only reason that you’re having any question about that is that there’s this underlying question of, “But what if we want to go there and get away for a brief time or take a vacation?” You can do that anyway.

ANN: Yeah.

ELIAS: You can do that whether you have that place or not. And you can go there, if you want to, and you can stay in other accommodations. Therefore it’s not as if moving in the direction of selling it takes away your choices. It doesn’t. Actually, in this situation, he may be correct. It may add to your choices.

ANN: Yeah. That’s what I was thinking because right now we’re living kind of a gypsy life, at least in the summers we’re living a gypsy life and both of the houses that we do own, we do rent. So there’s a… you know, you have to put all your personal things away. And I do have this desire to – even though I’m past my childbearing age – the nesting, I love to do my nesting. And I’m like oh, I want to do my plants in the garden and I want to… And I even want to just have plants in my house, and you really can’t do that when you’re not there to tend to them. And John is more of the inclination, he loves to travel and wants to travel. And I’m kind of thinking long, down the road, if I have my little nesting home that I can go to and not have to worry about whatever, that we could like trip, come back, trip, come back, trip come back, instead of like doing long, for three months. I don’t know. But it just feels like it might be, give us more options in creating a lifestyle that we both will be happy with.

ELIAS: I would agree.

ANN: So, okay. Let’s see. What else? All right. Of my energy – I listened to Christoph’s session this morning, which was fabulous, and he asked about his energy centers being in alignment and I thought oh, I like that question so I’m going to ask it. Of my energy centers, are they in alignment? Is one more out of alignment or…?

ELIAS: (Pause) No. I would say for the most part, yes.

ANN: I think I’m doing pretty good. So last time we spoke – this isn’t in my notes, but I just want to tell you the things that I noticed, the good things – it’s so interesting to me how the letting go of control and just living your life, in my noodle analogy, instead of pushing it, and just let it follow me. And I’ve noticed some things happen. Like I had set this intention I just want to feel good, look good, be good in my body, especially, like you say, a lot of us don’t put health number one. And then just setting that intention, and then I found that rinoja place which I told you about, the center I go to. And then I wasn’t searching for this, but it was a service they offered that helped for incontinence. I have had a problem with that, and I do, I’ve had an ongoing problem with it but it’s never really distressed me that much. It’s kind of more just like an inconvenience, but I would love not to have it. Anyhow, they had this little machine and it helped. It’s like 90% better. And I was like wow! And I loved it because that was something that I did want to take care of, but I really didn’t necessarily take any directive steps. I didn’t do research to get rid of it or, you know, but that happened. And they even had this hyperbaric chamber. And my vision isn’t that great, and then I went into the hyperbaric chamber and all of a sudden, I got out and I went, “Oh! I can see better.” Now that hasn’t continued because from what I understand, for it to really take effect you have to almost do these chambers every single day for a period of time. And I just didn’t have the time, but I was still like oh my god, this is something else that I would want, better vision, and this kind of popped up. And then John and I want to sell a timeshare and I…. You know, if you talk to anyone who owns a timeshare, they’re impossible to sell. And I had listed it with a ReMax dealership but never would hear anything. All of a sudden I got an email: “Someone wants to buy your timeshare.” It hasn’t gone through yet. I mean, we’ve signed the deal but it hasn’t settled. And I’m wondering, oh, where’s my energy? But I’m just relaxing and like okay, you know, checking in every now and then, what’s going on. But the company that has to supply documentations, I guess they’re not… They could care less if it was transferred because it’s… They’re not making any money off of it, so they don’t have any incentive to rush. But still, I take that, I’m like oh my god, we got this offer for this timeshare. There’s this period, I’m just sitting, I’m thinking wow, this really is kind of cool. I’m not pushing and things are happening that… And it’s easier than you thought. It’s because it’s like wow! I just have to kind of just live my life and take care of me, and—

ELIAS: And be moving in—

ANN: And would… the directions I want to move in.

ELIAS: Yes. And be comfortable in what directions you are engaging and that ripples out to everything.

ANN: Yes. And then as part, as the self-awareness part, it could be a little humbling but maybe I’m bringing it all to my attention because I can handle it or it doesn’t phase me. It’s just like oh, okay. But I am (laughs) becoming more and more aware of if I have a reaction, if I’m thinking, “Oh this person isn’t acting this way or that way,” or “It’s not comfortable towards me,” or “They’re doing something,” I am understanding now. I am having glimpses of this (laughs) because of what’s coming out of me. I am really getting that. It’s like whoa! Or there may be something I don’t like, or I feel uncomfortable. Oh, and another thing, I was talking with Mary, just trying to get also to that balance of being compassionate and kind with people while still honoring myself. That’s kind of still a little confusing for me. But I do realize, if I get aggravated with someone or upset with someone, it’s probably because I’m thinking I should act towards them in a certain manner and I don’t really want to. So all the whole conflict is with me, in myself. I am seeing this more and more. So this is very interesting.

ELIAS: Excellent.

ANN: This whole self-awareness, I’m like, “Okay.”

ELIAS: And when you’re honoring yourself, if you become irritated with someone or agitated or frustrated, you’re correct, it’s because you’re making yourself move in a direction that isn’t natural and the, what is important to understand is that when you’re honoring yourself, that doesn’t mean that you’re going to automatically be mean to someone if you have some difficulty with them. What it does mean is, if you’re honoring yourself that you will be genuine with the other individual and that doesn’t mean that you’re going to be harsh or that you’re going to be mean to them, or that you’re going to be discounting of them. You’re simply expressing yourself in what is genuine for you. And in that, you can do that in a compassionate manner and however you do it, in honoring yourself, you likely then will be able to let it go and not be feeling anything.

ANN: Yeah. Yeah. I do like that, the genuineness. I feel like… Because for so long, and still I feel the impulses, it’s like I want to help people or I want to fix things for people. Not necessarily help people, because… But I do notice how I have this underlying tendency, oh I want to make something, not necessarily fix things for people, but I do want to make people feel better. That’s like this thing that I have. But I’m also realizing, but I have to do that while being genuine to myself and not engaging in a way that is false. And while I’m trying to… I feel like I’m just trying to get my balance on this. I feel that maybe temporarily I might be withdrawing more, but it’s more, it feels like it’s more—

ELIAS: To allow yourself to understand what you’re doing.

ANN: Yes. Exactly. I think that’s what I’m doing, because I’m like… And I also want to say well, how do I want to approach – it kind of feels like really new territory – how do I really want to approach interacting with other people, being genuine?

ELIAS: Yes. It IS new territory.

ANN: Yes. It is new territory and I don’t think I am worried about… It’s funny, because I was telling this always to my sister-in-law, I said, “You don’t have to worry about being mean or rude,” because I said, “You’re not that type of person.” And I feel like that with me too. I don’t have to worry about me being rude or… That’s not who I am. Genuinely, that’s not who I am. So it is… And maybe if I was not being myself or genuine, it might come off as rude or something, because I would be irritated or snap. So I do realize that when I am genuine, it’s probably going to be better for everybody.

ELIAS: I agree.

ANN: So that is a movement that I am moving towards, and I’m very happy about it and you know, I still feel like I’ve got little balancing tricks to do but it’s okay and you’ll help me along the way, I’m sure.

ELIAS: I definitely will. (Chuckles)

ANN: So those are good things that I think are happening, that I’m learning how to be more self-directing, less controlling and realizing… Really, I’m starting to get a clearer understanding about the energy of what I am putting out and how it’s affecting me, and really taking… like I think if someone cut me off in traffic, I’m like, “Oh, you’re such an ass!” I might say something like that, but I am understanding my contribution to all this more and more. That understanding is growing. So that’s all good stuff.

ELIAS: I would say that’s excellent.

ANN: Yes. (Whispers) I’m very happy about that. (Elias laughs) Okay. Oh! As long as… I forgot. So John’s daughter has the new grandbaby, or a new baby, our grandbaby, so adorable, so cute. So I have to ask his stats too. And I’m thinking here again we have another Gramada, Ilda, political, common for Silvano.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: Yes! Such fun, stats. (Elias laughs) Okay, and so what’s Silvano’s essence name?

ELIAS: (Pause) Onika, (Oh-KNEE-kah), O-N-I-K-A.

ANN: Oh, fun. And this is the happiest baby I have every come across, and I’m sure obviously it’s a combination of his parents or his mother, who is the most allowing mother I’ve ever seen. The hint, like when she was pregnant: “This baby can come whenever it wants to come.” She’s just very allowing, so I’m sure that contributes to it. I’m just wondering if this essence is just a really happy essence. (Both laugh) I mean, I guess that wouldn’t make sense because essences don’t necessarily have personalities, do they? Do essences? They do?

ELIAS: But it wouldn’t be, that would be a feeling and emotional expression and THAT isn’t necessarily applicable. But I would say in this focus, that’s what this individual is choosing.

ANN: Yeah.

ELIAS: For now.

ANN: For now. Yeah. Also in Christoph’s session – oh my god, that was so good. I wish I knew. I wish I knew you when my kids were being raised because you said, if a kid hurts themself, to pick them up and say, “You’re okay. You’re okay,” don’t say that. I’m like oh my god, that’s true. And I’d heard you say that before, so I’m probably going to share some of that with them, I think. It’s such a nice thing for parents to do now in raising our new young. And we had just visited them in Philly and he bumped his head. And what did I do? Picked him up, “You’re okay. You’re okay.” (Laughs and Elias chuckles) But I won’t do that anymore. (Elias chuckles) And it’s all learning. We’re all learning.

ELIAS: It is.

ANN: We do what we are where we’re at. But I enjoyed that baby oh so much. (Elias laughs) So much. I very much enjoyed that baby. All right. All right, now this is kind of a fun question for me but since it seems like vague, I don’t know, you might get… (Elias laughs) Sometimes you get tricky on your answers with me or you say things, but okay. It’s just curiosity. You know me. Curiosity.

So once I had said to you or I asked you about… I had seen this documentary where this keeper had taken care of all these elephants and they had gone off into the wild or whatever. And then when he died, the elephants came back (inaudible) and I’m like, “Oh! How did they know?” And you said to me, “Oh, what a human question! Such a human question to ask.” (Elias laughs) Which was funny. And you know, hey, I’m human so I was not insulted. So I hope you’re not going to give me that same kind of answer (Elias laughs) or you may.

But I was listening to another thing. There’s a documentary that I haven’t watched, but I was listening to a podcast where people were discussing it, about chimpanzees, which man, they can be vicious. I had no idea. But yeah, that’s beside the point. But they said there was this thing, so when the chimpanzees are in camp at night sometimes, and it’s the same chimps, they go out and they go on patrol, you know, I guess to patrol their territory. And when the scientists in the documentary, they’re observing them, they’re like, it kind of seems organized, but there’s no sounds, so motions, nothing. And they’re communicating. It seems like they’re communicating with each other to organize this. So I was just curious. Is it just one habit, because they just do the same thing? Are they actually communicating with each other? And if they are communicating with each other, is it that animal thing, that since everything’s subjective, they don’t have to… It’s that elephant thing, that they just know things. And I kind of wanted to get more clear on that, like how animals are different than humans. And is it because they’re more connected with the subjective, that they know all this stuff?

ELIAS: Not entirely. Certain senses with animals are much, much, much more developed and heightened than humans. You don’t rely on your senses as much as animals do, objectively. You rely on your thinking and your feeling. But they rely on their senses and certain senses are much more highly developed and much, much, much more sensitive than yours will ever be.

Now; with the elephants, first of all, it’s not necessarily that elephants have a greater memory or recall of memory than other animals, but that they live longer than many animals and therefore they display that memory more. And also, because they are very nomadic, that’s another factor that makes their recall of memory more obvious. But it’s a combination of their recall of their interaction with an individual or another animal, and also in relation to a human, they keep track, in a manner of speaking, that they sense into yes, the energy of that individual through time. They don’t lose that connection. And they also use their senses, their sense of hearing, their sense of smell. And elephants, in relation to their hearing, have a much (chuckles) greater hearing than most animals and they also are very attuned to vibrational expressions. They generate vibrational tones, actual tones, through their feet.

ANN: Oh! Wow.

ELIAS: And they can sense vibrational tones and vibrational expressions through their feet. Therefore their feet, in relation to the earth, the ground, can sense other creatures including humans, and therefore that’s another aspect of how they keep track of certain individuals, whether that individual is another animal or if it’s a human. And therefore, that’s how they know where that individual is and they know when that individual would disengage, and therefore they would generate the same type of ritual with a human that they would with their own kind, which they do mourn their dead and they do have their own ritual in relation to death. And if they are connected with a human, they would express the same ritual and mourning for that individual that they would for one of their own.

Now; in relation to chimpanzees, this is an animal, other than gorillas, are the closest animal to yourselves as humans. But once again, they also, they generate many qualities that are very similar to you. You mentioned that they can be very vicious.

ANN: Yes.

ELIAS: They can be.

ANN: And so can we. I know.

ELIAS: They can be very aggressive. They can be very destructive and they can be very vicious, like yourselves.

ANN: I know.

ELIAS: And one factor that they express that you as humans have somewhat lost – it’s not that you never had it, but through time you’ve lost it – is this ability to sense each other and in a manner of speaking communicate with each other energetically. Humans used to have that ability also in your early stages of development, but once you began creating more developed societies, what you term to be civilizations, you lost that ability.

Now; in that, it’s not simply habit. There are certain individuals in the troop that are designated as sentries, and those individuals would consistently be patrolling and on guard. And they do communicate with each other energetically in relation to how they’re patrolling, and if they encounter something that is a danger to the troop, they don’t necessarily have to scream.

ANN: Yeah. Wow.

ELIAS: They can alert each other through energetic expressions. You do that also, but what you’ve lost is your ability to receive it from others. When you are threatened, you will express an energy outwardly in relation to danger, but other individuals won’t necessarily receive it or pick it up. They are not open to that and they are not accustomed to doing it or being aware of that any longer. Therefore someone else could be in danger and could be expressing that energy, because you automatically do, but someone wouldn’t necessarily come to you simply by that energetic expression.

ANN: Is that kind of similar to when people… you know, when someone calls and you kind of know who it is? Is that a different action?

ELIAS: It’s similar.

ANN: Similar.

ELIAS: It’s similar. Therefore, that’s you still tapping into that energy, but it—

ANN: You would dismiss it probably, if you did receive it from someone being in distressed, maybe.

ELIAS: You likely wouldn’t receive it. In what you’re expressing, is the last vestiges of you—

ANN: Yeah. Yeah.

ELIAS: But you can do that actually frequently, as long as it’s direct. If someone is directly projecting energy to you and is directly connecting with you, even through something such as the telephone, the energy is directly going to you and you’re directly being alerted.

ANN: Okay, so I see. So… but if it wasn’t direct to me, I would be oblivious to it.

ELIAS: Correct. And many times, if you don’t have a signal, you won’t pay attention.

ANN: Yeah. Would a dispersed person be easier to pick up on this stuff?

ELIAS: Not necessarily.

ANN: Not necessarily.

ELIAS: Because they’re picking up different energies that aren’t directed at them. They’re simply picking up different energies because they’re open to that, but they’re not paying attention to energy that’s coming to them—

ANN: Yeah. Okay. Interesting.

ELIAS: — personally. But in that, I would say that you as humans now need a signal. Something, a ringing telephone or some type of alerting signal, a sound or a movement, anything that would be a signal to gain your attention. The chimpanzees don’t need that. They haven’t lost that ability to receive that energy, because they’re always alert to that. They are aware that that is another aspect of their communication, is to be interactive in an energetic capacity.

ANN: Is this related to intuition in any way? Or is intuition something completely different?

ELIAS: Intuition is something different. That would be much more associated with humans, although cetaceans do incorporate intuition also.

ANN: But they’re also essence.

ELIAS: Precisely. That’s the point.

ANN: And speaking of this, in the forum someone was curious about: are there any other animals that have decided to become essence or are about to decide to become essence? (Elias shakes his head) So we’re just with humans and cetaceans at this point.

ELIAS: And it has been thousands and thousands and thousands of years to develop into the direction that the cetaceans would be moving in the direction of essence.

ANN: Are cetaceans curious about extra-terrestrials the way humans are?

ELIAS: To a degree. Not as much, but slightly.

ANN: Oh interesting.

ELIAS: But then I would say that for most of them, they also are still discovering humans, and don’t incorporate any idea of other animals, other than seagoing animals. They don’t have a concept of other beings in your own world.

ANN: Yes. Unless they interact with them on the shore, like I saw a cat and a dolphin interacting, but that’s just because they could… Like an elephant—

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: They probably are clueless.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: Chimpanzee, clueless. All right. Okay. That is… I love stuff like this. I love the animals. I love understanding animals. Oh, before we leave animals, so on our trip we have taken our little feline friend. And John – we’re only two weeks in, but John and I are both surprised that she’s doing pretty well. I mean, as good as she does at home. But there is something I’m always curious about. She does this at home and she does this on the trip too, and I know it’s not… It’s a cat thing, and I know it has to do with food, but waking us up early in the morning to be fed all right, that’s easy enough to figure out, feed her. But the really kind of puzzling thing is, or puzzling or funny thing is, and she does this more at home than on the road, just because it’s harder, but if one of us got out of bed or whatever, she’d still want to get the other person up. She’s been fed, she’s been taken care of. She wants to get the other person up. Now when she gets us both up, then she goes to bed. What the hell is she doing? I almost feel like – oh! Like she thinks it’s her job to get her humans out of bed, and when she’s accomplished her job, she can go to bed. I guess one of the reasons I want to do this is because I just, you know, I want her to let us sleep in sometimes.

ELIAS: (Laughs) That’s unlikely.

ANN: Oh yeah. Of course. (Elias laughs) We don’t need an alarm clock. So does she think it’s her job to get us both out of bed?

ELIAS: No, it’s not something that she thinks is her job to do that. It’s that… It’s that the one person that is getting up and feeding her, she in a manner of speaking takes that as someone is simply almost robotically engaging a task for her, but not actually interacting with her. And therefore if you’re both up, then you’re not actually doing a task and in that, you’re acknowledging her and her presence. And then she’s satisfied.

ANN: Well that is true. She comes, she gets her butt rubbed, she gets her ears rubbed, and you’re right. That’s exactly what she does. (Elias laughs) So how…? Are we correct in thinking that she’s…? I mean, obviously she’ll get a little distressed with new things, but for the most part she’s handling the trip pretty well. Would you agree?

ELIAS: Yes. She likes being with you.

ANN: That’s what I was thinking, because I thought you know, when she stayed with my son for three weeks, when we went to Cabo, and she loves my son though, but my son kept… Even when she was with my son or my mother, they both always say, “She misses you. She misses you. She wants to be with you.” And I kind of have that feeling, if she’s with us, she’s just happier.

ELIAS: I agree.

ANN: Yeah. She loves us. (Elias chuckles) It’s so easy to understand why! (Both laugh)

ELIAS: I very much agree.

ANN: Okay. So, well that’s good. That’s just confirmation and to everything I always thought. All right. This is just another little fun question, which I think you’re going to say no. (Elias laughs) But maybe you’ll surprise me and say yes. All right, is there a pyramid on the moon, Mars, Saturn’s moon, Titan and Pluto? Are there pyramids on those planets or moons?

ELIAS: (Pause) There was one on Mars.

ANN: Ooh! Oh, so it wouldn’t be, even when we go to explore Mars, we wouldn’t be able to find it, because it’s…


ANN: Oh, okay.

ELIAS: The foundation of it is underground.

ANN: Okay. So not likely to be discovered by humans, even if they were to explore Mars, because it’s way underground. Well, you don’t know.

ELIAS: Perhaps far in the future.

ANN: Okay. And also, in my last session, the last session before, you had referenced the new necromancer and I was kind of… At the time, I was thinking oh, maybe you were talking about Adam. But then, everyone’s like, “Who’s the new one?” Is there a new one besides Adam or were you referring to Adam? (Elias nods) Okay. Oh! So my impression was correct. And when you say… and what does it mean to be able to “pull something back from the dead”? When you said that, do you just mean that he can communicate with them or see them, but not that…? Other people couldn’t see the dead, though, could they?

ELIAS: No, but he can. But that’s not what I’m referring to.

ANN: Okay, so what are you referring to?

ELIAS: He can reanimate.

ANN: So he can reanimate? Reanimate. But other people cannot.


ANN: Unless they’re… I think he said there was like ten necromancers or something presently.

ELIAS: The only individuals that can actually do that are a necromancer.

ANN: Wow. That’s kind of cool. Maybe.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Most of them don’t do that. I would say most of them, that the most that they do is to perhaps occasionally do that with an animal. Most of them would never do it with a human.

ANN: Oh! Hm.

ELIAS: And as I’ve expressed to other individuals, it has to be done within physical proximity. They have to be present with the being or individual that has died, and it can only be done within a certain amount of time. (Inaudible)

ANN: Well how did he see his brother then?

ELIAS: He can see the dead and he can speak to them. This is a different subject.

ANN: Oh, okay. I think I blanked out on something.

ELIAS: What I’m speaking of is that he also has the ability to reanimate, which means pull someone back—

ANN: Oh! So if he was in the emergency room when someone was pronounced dead, he could bring them back?

ELIAS: He could.

ANN: Whoa!

ELIAS: Or if they were on the street, or if they were in their home. It doesn’t matter where they are, if he was present within a certain amount of time, he could actually reanimate.

Now; what I would say to that is, in adjustment he could reanimate at any point but he can only reanimate a being within a certain amount of time and have that being fully be reintegrated into physical focus. After a certain amount of time, he could still reanimate a being but it wouldn’t fully be reintegrated into physical reality. Part of it would remain in non-physical. Therefore it would be—

ANN: A zombie?

ELIAS: No, that’s—

ANN: Fiction.

ELIAS: Yes. And it’s not that, but there would always be something missing.

ANN: Yeah.

ELIAS: For a human, they would be much less expressive and in touch with emotional communications and therefore they would seem to be (pause) in your terms, almost more robotic than an individual would naturally be. And not that they couldn’t feel at all, they could but it would only be in extremes.

ANN: Are any of these individuals, have any individuals been brought back in that condition that are existing on earth right now?


ANN: Okay. That’s kind of…

ELIAS: It’s exceedingly rare.

ANN: And then how does that interplay with…? Like you know, everyone chooses to die. Someone chooses to die and then someone brings them back, I guess they’d have to be in agreement to be brought back?

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: So if that person was like… Okay, let’s say they get brought back and they’re like, “No, I really wanted to die,” then they’d probably die again.


ANN: Or they could get brought back and go, “Oh, that was kind of a fun experience!” (Both laugh) All kinds of possibilities.

ELIAS: But what I would say to you is that it is very, very rare for that to happen. First of all, it’s exceedingly rare to be a necromancer, and of those very rare beings that are necromancers, it’s even more rare that they would actually choose to engage that action of reanimating something that died. And then it’s extremely rare for one to engage that action with a human.

ANN: Ah. I could see how they might do it with an animal or something, if they were sad their animal passed.

ELIAS: Actually, it’s not generally their own animal, but they might be moved to reanimate an animal in relation to someone else.

[The timer for the end of the first part of the session rings]

ANN: Yeah. Oh, interesting. All right. Wow. Oh my god, this has just been fun conversation. (Elias laughs) I can’t wait until our next one. I think it’s going to be you and me again, because I think John is not going to make it.


ANN: But—

ELIAS: Very well.

ANN: I am happy to have another hour with you.

ELIAS: Very well. (Laughs)

ANN: Okay.

ELIAS: I shall be engaging you shortly.

ANN: Okay. I’ll be here. Talk to you soon.

[The first session ends after 59 minutes]

ELIAS: Continuing.

ANN: Yes, we are. (Elias chuckles) Okay. Oh! Okay. A couple more simple questions before we get into subjects that I have yet to comprehend, that may take a while. (Both laugh) Oh! My closest guides. Who are my closest guides?

ELIAS: And what would your impressions be?

ANN: I have to feel like you’ve got to be one of them.


ANN: Twyla? And— (Elias nods) Yeah, Twyla. And oh, I have a third one. Oh god, who was the third one? You, Twyla and… Who was the third one? Patel? (Elias shakes his head) No. Who’s the third one?

ELIAS: Ordin.

ANN: Oh, right. Yeah. Ordin. (Elias laughs) Oh my god. That time he came as a bird, and I just, the name popped into my head, Ordin. Tell me about Ordin again. I don’t know much about him. Like what kind of essence is he? He or she or it?

ELIAS: One that is very connected with what you think of as nature.

ANN: Oh! No wonder. And so is Twyla, right?

ELIAS: Mm, yes but Twyla is more associated with feeling.

ANN: Okay. That makes sense too. Ah. Hm. Any others?

ELIAS: (Pause) Daniel.

ANN: Oh! I don’t know Daniel at all. What is…? Who’s Daniel?

ELIAS: This essence—

ANN: Oh, hi Daniel!

ELIAS: — is very (pause) interested in human expressions, but is very connected with emotional expressions with humans. And this essence is very supportive and compassionate in relation to human expressions such as depression and anxiety.

ANN: Thank you, Daniel! (Elias laughs) Oh. The depression, I don’t think I’ve been around, had that much, but you know anxiety and me. I appreciate it. (Elias laughs) Keep it coming! (Elias chuckles) All right. Oh, that’s interesting. So you know, it’s funny when like, oh my god, when people channel Twyla and I listen to it, and I’m like, “Oh, that’s what I would have said.” (Elias chuckles) It feels very… It all really resonates with me. Is that more or less because…? You had said that I had fragmented from Twyla, and I always assumed that’s because you say when you fragment from an essence, you have all the knowledge of that essence.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: So anything that Twyla would probably say, I’d be like, “Oh yeah.” (Both laugh) Okay. All right. Well good. Now I have names I can add to my (Elias chuckles) whatever, discussions. All right. So what else? Now, okay, so this I have ideas, I just don’t want to go around a circle. I don’t want to pull a pre-Sadie and be running around in circles. (Elias laughs) But still wanting to understand this, like I know the world is a reflection of us, I know it’s not a mirror. At least, maybe I haven’t completely got that, but I understand it’s not a mirror. There are no absolutes. It’s all not black and white. That’s my foundation. I know, I know, I know. I guess I’m saying that because there’s more that I want to learn.

But I still don’t quite… I guess, so if the world is a reflection of me, if something exists in the world, I feel like it’s got to be part of me as well, no matter what it is. Right? (Elias nods) Okay. Yeah. So, I’m still a little confused. Oh, that would be my world. Well, there’s a lot of worlds, right? So that’s my world. Oh, maybe I’m not confused anymore. I thought this was going to be a long conversation. (Elias laughs) I think I’m good to go.

Okay, so I keep… I guess where my confusion comes is because no matter how many times you tell us, “There is not one official reality,” there’s this part of my brain that keeps thinking yeah, but there’s got to be some kind of official reality. And you keep saying no. Maybe that’s where my confusion is really, trying to grasp that there’s not one official reality. Wow. And the world, and a reflection of me…

All right. So even if I am… Like when I said if I was so compassionate and I focus on all the stuff I like, but then the war and stuff wouldn’t exist. But if I truly was… There’s two things in it. There’s two things. One, I might think I’m being compassionate, but I might be projecting of energy that I’m unaware of, right? That’s one thing. But then the other thing is, everything exists. So even if in my world, I’m only experiencing what I’m focusing on and paying attention to, and if I’m not focused and paying attention to war, it’s not going to exist in my immediate reality but way off, I can make, oh yeah, I heard on the news whatever. Or maybe I might not even ever hear on the news, because I might be that far away from it, but it still exists. It’s just not in my reality. Right?

ELIAS: It may exist in someone else’s reality, but it doesn’t exist in yours. Therefore, it doesn’t exist in some official realities, but it could exist in someone else’s reality, but then it also could not exist in yours. Therefore you could be creating a reality in which there isn’t one.

ANN: Okay.

ELIAS: But let me also say to you that you could be including a war in your reality and there can be many reasons that you might have that as a reflection to you, and it doesn’t necessarily mean—

ANN: That I’m aggressive.

ELIAS: No. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that you are expressing conflict or significant conflict in your life, but it can be a reflection of judgments. And in that, let me also say that your perception of war can be different. Meaning that some individuals can be expressing a perception of war and be participating in it. Some people can be very aware of it and it’s close to them, but they’re not participating in it. Some individuals can be very aware of it, but they aren’t involved with it, meaning they don’t know anyone personally that’s being affected by it. Then there are people that may know about a war. It may be a part of their perception, their reality, but it may be on the periphery and therefore it’s not something that is prominent in their reality. It’s something that’s remote in their reality. And there are many, many, many different reasons that an individual may have that in their reality, that it’s a part of their perception and therefore a part of their reality. And in that, depending upon how remote it is in their reality, it may not have anything to do with a reflection of conflict for them. It may be simply an expression of judgments. And in that, it might not be a prominent reflection of judgments. It might be a remote judgment about governments that don’t agree and one that you judge as right and one that you judge as wrong, but that you’re not necessarily invested in that, or involved with it, but that you do hold that judgment still, and that you might have that imagery for that reason. Or someone might have that perception and have that piece in their reality to remind them about acceptance of differences.

There are many different reasons why an individual might have that, might include that in their reality, and it doesn’t necessarily mean what you think it means.

ANN: Okay. So the other piece that I kind of want to get more clarity on is… so how I have decided on or I have chosen to focus living my life. I don’t always do it, but I think it’s like the most powerful way is concentrating on what I’m doing, which obviously, and paying more attention to what I’m doing and thinking about what I’m concentrating on. Okay, so then that is all going to lead into my perception and everything that you always tell us. A little part that, I don’t know if it’s confusing or what, but maybe this is why I think there has to be some outside reality or kind of official reality, is because like you’ll say the masses are so influential. Like if I want to create a world and the masses… Let’s just take our gravity, if I want to create a world without gravity, which I don’t necessarily want to but for example if I did, it would be probably harder for me to do it because of these masses. The masses believe in gravity, of this reality that I’m creating right now. But so it’s confusing to me though—

ELIAS: But you’re part of the masses.

ANN: I know I’m a part of the masses, but what if I’m not in the majority of the masses? I believe differently than the masses? Then I won’t create what the masses…? So, then masses are creating. I thinking I’m really having trouble understanding me being separate and there’s all these other people who are separate, but we’re all still one. And if we all are one, it seems like there’s got to be some point where there is one official type of reality. I know, I know, but this is just what I’m thinking.

ELIAS: But you are influencing each other, and in that, you do create similarly. Therefore you create certain configurations of towns and cities and roads and vehicles that most of you will perceive very much the same.

ANN: Okay, so maybe the part that I don’t like about this masses thing, even though I’m a part of the mass I know, is I have this belief, whether it’s true or not but it’s true for me because I believe it, that if the masses believe, oh I feel it’s constricting because the more people that believe in something, the harder it would be for me then to go off in maybe a different direction.

ELIAS: Not necessarily. Not necessarily. It all depends on what you’re paying attention to. And therefore, regardless of the direction that any particular faction of the masses – because “the masses” is not everyone, and therefore even regardless of whatever particular faction of the masses that you might be participating with, it still is a matter of what you’re paying attention to and you can be moving in a very different direction than what even the mass of people around you is. Which is what would be the most affecting of you, not that the world isn’t affecting, but you’re most affected by the society and the community around you in physical proximity with you, or the individuals that you interact with.

(Section deleted)

ANN: Wow. Interesting. (Elias chuckles) Good. This is… If I would have said this statement, let’s say twenty years ago, thirty years ago, forty years ago, I would have said of course this is a true statement, but I am getting it on deeper levels the statement that all (inaudible) accepting differences and it’s just becoming more and more apparent to me. You know, you think people think like you and a common thing that people will say is, “Well, I wouldn’t do that,” or “If it were me, this is what I would do, that this is this right way.” And I’m like… And of course if you say yeah, everyone thinks differently, everyone, I could say that to probably anyone on the planet, they’re going to agree with me. I would have agreed with that statement fifty years ago, but now I’m like, it’s a different level. I’m like yeah, people’s brains or thought process or whatever are so vastly different.

ELIAS: Yes, they are.

ANN: And I could go—

ELIAS: This is also one of the reasons that I have repeatedly moved in a direction of speaking to people about the acceptance of differences.

ANN: I know. I’ve been paying attention to that and I… You know, I’ll tell myself. Yeah. The part about it that I’m with, like the acceptance of differences, where the threat part comes up, or the discounting or the comparison, and I will… Like I admit, I had lunch with my old… like in my old job, and it served me very well, but I always felt a little lesser just because, whether it was picking up on computer programs or being aware of certain things. And I’m also aware it’s because maybe that didn’t hold my interest as much, so I wasn’t aware of stuff or I didn’t seem to be as quote-unquote “smart” as some of the other people. And I may have discounted myself probably, but… So we’re having lunch and I’m like there, I am moving into the realization, but I could see where oh, I would think it was a threat because I wasn’t smart, I would feel bad, that I would put up a defence or I would put up a justification, or no but I’m smart in this way, or just a validation. Like I am aware of the things that I would do because I felt a threat. So now I’m just like let it sit and be aware of it, but I’m being more and more okay with who I am.

And that piece, like when I brought up the jealously piece in the last thing and you said well you wouldn’t be jealous if you realized. And I am moving into that thing, that I’m like oh, everyone is different but this is me different. This is me. This is how I am. And this… And I want to be me. I like me and how I am, because I’m choosing this. It’s just… So I am moving more into that. And then I listen, I’m listening, now that we’re doing this driving, I’m listening to these podcasts since I’m curious. I love it with all kinds of different information, and some people, oh my god they are so smart. They know so much information. And I’m like well, they have their piece, there’s that one piece of the puzzle. That’s that piece of the puzzle. It’s… I don’t know if I have a question. It’s just a nice place, position to move into, this thinking. And yeah.

ELIAS: And even with the perception that other people have so much information or they’re so smart, you’re participating with it. You’re availing yourself of that information. Therefore you must be intelligent also, or you wouldn’t be able to take it in.

ANN: Yeah. Yeah. I do think, and maybe I thought this was – we’ve talked about this before, that maybe it was not as good as like, you know, the jack-of-all-trades, master of none. And you think a master is so great, jack-of-all-trades isn’t great. But I’ve always felt of myself as like a jack-of-all-trades or someone who didn’t have necessarily a lot of book, book smarts, but just a lot of common sense. I feel like I have probably oozing common sense. At least I feel I’ve got a lot. Most of the time. Sometimes it’s a lapse, but… I think, in the past maybe what was kind of conflicting within myself or maybe I might have discounted myself for not being one of these brilliant people, but then also yeah, kind of, well no, these are good traits too, in a justifying way.

But now I’m also realizing, it’s kind of what I want to do. That’s my choice. This is what I want to do. Or like I was telling Karen in the magic group when Denise first started talking about it, I was like oh, I want to be a part of the magic group. And Denise says well, when I get apprentices, you can be an apprentice of mine. And I’m like hm, well maybe. And I didn’t bring anything up, but then as Denise would tell me about the magic group and stuff, and how they function, all right. Oh, I wouldn’t want to meet every Tuesday night. I wouldn’t. I mean that’s not how I move. And so yeah. So you might, like just for my future self, for anybody listening or past selves or extraterrestrials, you might get, you might see something, “Oh, I want that!” and it’s not happening, it’s probably because you really didn’t want it. (Laughs)

And it’s so nice just to say yeah, I just… I’m realizing more and more what I have and what I’m doing is really what I want. And our great word, choice, is really what I’m choosing.


ANN: And it’s not like I can’t do something or someone is saying I can’t do this, you can do that. I am. I’m seeing now where I am really just choosing it.


ANN: So that—

ELIAS: And if you wanted to do something else—

ANN: I could.

ELIAS: You could.

ANN: And the reason I… I mean, I’m sure there’s things I want to do that I’m not choosing yet maybe because it’s fearful, I don’t know how, or I’ve got some stuff to work out. I don’t think there’s that much at this point that I want to do that I’m not choosing to do. It’s more I feel like things are unrolling and unfolding, as you like to say, and I’m just kind of observing. (Elias chuckles) But would you say that there is something that I want to choose that I’m not choosing?

ELIAS: At this point?

ANN: Yeah.

ELIAS: No. I would say that there are things that you haven’t presented to yourself yet that you don’t know about yet that eventually you might want to explore, but at this point, no.

ANN: So, I’ve been kind of… What is a little bit presenting itself to me, I’ve been wondering about how I want to live. And you know obviously John is the best partner that I’ve ever had, and there’s so many things I love about him and… But I’m just wondering (laughs) and I don’t think it’s a problem, but I’m just wondering, as I’m moving into this. And I talked earlier about oh maybe I want a nest, and he loves to travel. And I feel like yeah, we’re going to be able to make it work for both of us, but then I’m wondering, you know I’m wondering, is one of us going to hinder the other one of us? Like will I, my thing of wanting to get like maybe… I’m always thinking, I feel like oh, roots, roots, I want some roots. I want to establish a little home. I want nesting, I want da-da-da. He, that isn’t as important to him. He, he’s Ilda in every sense of the word and he wants to go travel and to go talk to different people and to be all over the place, which I do enjoy traveling and I enjoy talking to people as well, but I guess I’m wondering, you know, how easy it is. Will we find this balance? Will I be shortening him? Will he be shortening me? Will we, are we going to be able to figure this out, for both of us to live, you know, very—


ANN: And not just happy, but I want us both to be thriving in the environment—


ANN: — that we create.


ANN: Yeah.

ELIAS: And, and once again, it’s not black and white.

ANN: Not black and white. (Laughs)

ELIAS: And in that, you likely will move in the direction of generating a home. And in that, I would say that many times, you likely will travel together, but it’s also very possible that there will be times that you won’t, and that will be acceptable, and that neither of you will have a problem with that, and that both of you will be comfortable with that. And I would say that even if he travels and you don’t, he won’t travel for any length of time. It will be very short, if he travels without you, because he values traveling but he values being with you more.

ANN: Well I do think we’re good for each other, in different ways. There is like a, and I don’t know if this makes us complements or it might be one of those things where if something, we’re such good complements on so many levels that this I’m willing to overlook but I’m trying to… not overlook, because I don’t want to overlook it. I just want to get to a way that I can manage it. But I, and I’m not necessarily, I like an orderly environment. And myself, sometimes I get in this mess and I have a mess that’s strewn, but it’s not going to stay a mess too long before I tidy up again. And I like things ordered and I like things put together so I’ll be able to find them, and easy access. I don’t like not being able to find things, so I have my methods for me to be able to find things. Where he, it really is like the absent-minded professor. Things are strewn all over the place. (Elias chuckles) And it doesn’t phase, he can function like that. He says… Like we’ll clean up the shed and so I can walk in there. He does a project. Twenty, two hours later, I can’t walk in there anymore. (Elias chuckles) And he said, “This is how I have to work.” That’s how. So I’m like okay, that’s how he has to work, strewn over.

And it’s interesting because now we’re in this tight… This’ll probably teach us both how to work with each other, because we’re traveling in a, all of our stuff in this vehicle, and so we’re going to have to figure out with our stuff how we both manage our stuff, how we get it, manage it together, but… So I know, in the group session you said you can tell the person, “This bothers me. This upsets me,” and they could go, “Oh, okay, yeah,” but they won’t. So I’m not even going in that direction. I’m going to save myself the breath. I’m going to save myself everything, but I also want to keep my sanity.

ELIAS: This is an excellent example because in this, as you said, you like things to be orderly so that you know where things are and you can find things when you want to, and that he may be seemingly chaotic, although he knows where what he needs or wants is. But in that, even in what you’re talking about now, in this very small space, you’re thinking about a shared space as shared everything and it’s not. It’s actually (chuckles) not, because you know where your things are. He’s not moving them. He’s moving his things and even though his things might cover up your things, you still know where they were. Therefore, he isn’t actually displacing what you have and therefore he isn’t actually disrupting what you have.

And in that, this is the piece, yes, about differences and it isn’t necessarily that differences always threaten. Sometimes they do. Many times they do, but then there are situations in which those differences aren’t necessarily threatening but that you are automatically projecting what’s important to you onto the other person, and automatically projecting that they should be moving in a similar direction as yourself, because that’s what you do. And you don’t understand why they do something different or how they function in a different capacity.

Now; this, the reason this is an excellent example is because this is an example of what I am constantly expressing to all of you about paying attention to you. What does that mean? How do you do that? And what IS that expression of paying attention to you?

In this example, how you can look at this and recognize that aspect of paying attention to you is to look at the actual, physical expression, your physical environment. And in paying attention to you, you recognize: “This is how I function. I like things to be organized. I like to know where everything is. Therefore when I need something or want something, I can find it effectively and quickly.” Therefore, take some time. Look around your environment and look at, physically observe what you do, where you put things, where you organize things, and then observe. When he creates what you think of as a mess, have any of your things moved?

ANN: Well, what is ironic and funny—

ELIAS: But actually perhaps today, take some time and actually observe: “Have any of my things moved? Are they still in the places and positions that I have—

ANN: Yeah, he doesn’t move my stuff.

ELIAS: — put them? Is he actually displacing my articles?” If not, then you’re still functioning in the manner that is effective and efficient for you. And in that, then it’s simply a matter of you not paying attention to his mess. It’s his mess. It doesn’t actually affect you.

ANN: The only way it affects me is, and this is actually probably in the shed more so than in the car, but it hinders me. His stuff hinders me from physically accessing my stuff. I’m like… And sometimes you have to crawl over stuff and you have to get, and I’m like I can’t get… I want to like be able to walk in. I have, and I even put all my stuff on the side of the door, and I don’t have that much stuff and he’s got all of that big part of the shed. So I’d like to strategically put what I want to get to right there, so he could have the rest of the… But it comes. Because I create space, and he says, “Oh, this is space,” and then he fills it up. He fills my space up. I want my space. I love space. I want to be able to move around, do this and that. When there’s space, he goes, “Oh, good space, good space! Let me put all my stuff in it.” (Laughs) That’s the part.

ELIAS: Then you create a different one. Meaning, not a shared space.

ANN: Yes. Oh, which I have told him, and I think could solve all the problems, I want my own shed and it doesn’t have to be big, but he doesn’t go in there. And he can have that big old shed and do whatever he wants in it.


ANN: Yes.

ELIAS: That is the point, if you are having conflict because of how he functions and if it IS hindering your direction, then it’s a matter of expressing a different option. And in that, what I would say is you could either share the space and you continue to make a path to your things, and in that not concern yourself with that, or create a different space arrangement that is solely your space arrangement and that you don’t have to engage with any other expression of. And in that, you don’t have to wait for him to do that. YOU can make that choice. YOU can implement that choice yourself. It isn’t something that you have to express to him, “I want my own shed. Fill that for me. I want my own shed. Buy it for me.” No. You can do that yourself. If that’s the choice that you want to make, then make that choice and implement it, and not be making it his responsibility.

ANN: Yes. I agree.

ELIAS: Now; in sharing space as you are now, that’s different. Now you are in a position in which you genuinely have to cooperate with each other. And therefore it’s a matter of remembering, “My things aren’t actually moving. I know where they are. I know I can access them. And if he makes a mess and is strewing things all over, it’s fine because I still know where all my things are and how to get to them.”

ANN: Yeah, and I do have to give him kudos and credit because, well, what I’ve been doing is I’ve been saying, telling him, because he likes to pack the car, that “All right, just give me easy access to this stuff. This is what I want access to.” And he does a good job with his own engineering brain of getting the stuff, of giving me access to the stuff I want. So we are working it out. It’s not a big deal and I do realize, but it really drives home the point it is about me, it’s not about him.

ELIAS: Correct.

ANN: It’s about me, and I understand that and I have been. Yeah. No, it’s good. Okay. (Elias chuckles)

Now I want to talk, one thing I’ve been noticing about myself is I have a lot of judgments. And I know we all do, but I’m like… I’ll say something and I go, and I’ll have this thought, and I go – and I don’t want to discount myself and I don’t really want to discount the other person, but my thought seems maybe it’s discounting. But so I just go, “Okay, I had a judgment there.” (Laughs)

ELIAS: And remember that you’re not changing or eliminating duplicity. Therefore you WILL have judgments. That’s not necessarily bad. It’s what you do with them.

ANN: Right. So that’s kind of the path I want to go, because I want to. Because I could judge somebody and you know, it’s all back to this balancing thing, how I’m interacting with people by being genuine but whatever. Like I could judge somebody, but I’m not going to treat them… I wouldn’t, you know, treat them, if I think oh my god this person’s an idiot or they’re doing something stupid, I’m probably not going to treat them like that. Or I’m like oh, they just don’t care or whatever, but I want to make sure, like what we concentrate on and what we think about, that creates our life. So I want to well, I know, acknowledge that I did have a judgment, and I guess I don’t want to be judgmental of my judgments but I also don’t want to… I really don’t want to discount people. Even in my judgments, I don’t want to discount people. But I’m like yeah, they’re not doing this right or they’re not doing that right or they should be living this type of life or they should, you know, it’s here I am, concerned about other people. I don’t spend an extraordinary amount of time on this – or maybe I do and just am not aware of it, I don’t know. But I guess I want to be at a place where maybe accepting myself, either for having judgments or just more and more, just this is this other person, and this is the life they’re living and this is experiences they’re having. It’s not good or bad. This is just an experience. It’s like I just want to get into this place—

ELIAS: I understand.

ANN: Oh, thank you.

ELIAS: But I would also say that it’s a matter of acknowledging your own guidelines, and that—

ANN: Okay. And they’re not other people’s guidelines.

ELIAS: And other people aren’t going to necessarily express the same guidelines as you.

ANN: Yeah. (Referring to the dog) She wants down? Oh, over here? You want over there. And he can think about you the way people can. (Elias chuckles) There you go. Or Mary could.

ELIAS: What I’m expressing to you is that you have guidelines. Other people’s guidelines are going to be different, which is going to affect their behaviors, just as your guidelines affect your behaviors. And in that, if other people’s guidelines are significantly different from yours, it affects their behavior and then you observe that and you might not like it. And remember: acceptance doesn’t mean that you agree or that you like something. And in that, it’s a matter of actually expressing that acceptance with YOU, that you have your guidelines, you have your preferences, and with those guidelines and preferences, they are going to influence you to generate judgments, which means, “I don’t like that. I don’t agree with that.”

And in that, as you say, that doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily going to be obnoxious with the other individual in relation to that, or it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to express to the other individual that they’re wrong or bad because they are expressing that behavior, but it’s also a matter of acknowledging and accepting YOU, that these ARE your guidelines and it’s not bad that you have this judgment. It’s not about that you have a judgment. That’s not the gauge or the expression of acceptance. It’s what you do with it.

Therefore, in that, recognizing that yes, this individual expresses very differently from yourself, their guidelines are influencing their behaviors in a very different manner, and that you can accept that that’s them and that that’s their guidelines and you don’t necessarily agree with that. Then it’s a matter of recognizing, “Very well. What do I do with this? What are my choices in relation to this?” And that’s what we were discussing previously about honoring you and therefore making choices either to move in a direction of being genuine to yourself by expressing yourself genuinely, which doesn’t mean that you have to be obnoxious or discounting or blaming of another individual, but expressing yourself genuinely or choosing not to participate with someone that is significantly different from yourself and if that’s considerably bothersome to you or it’s consistently bothersome to you, making a choice that you choose not to participate with that individual, and in that, recognizing that that eliminates your internal conflict.

I would say that what is a significant problem for most individuals is that they’re constantly attempting to twist themselves in a direction of continuing to be interactive and participating with another individual that IS bothersome to them, because they think they should, because they think that that’s accepting.

ANN: Yes. That’s what I do – or did.

ELIAS: And in that, that is wherein your choices come into play and why they are so important. That it’s a matter of you’re not bad or wrong if the behavior of someone else is bothersome to you and if it’s consistently bothersome to you, if you move in a direction with another individual and their behavior is bothersome to you, but in some capacity you can find an avenue in which it isn’t bothersome to you or it doesn’t matter to you or you can make it unimportant, that’s fine. But if you cannot, if you have tried, if you have moved in different directions and you have changed your perception in certain manners or you have moved in directions of implementing different actions yourself and different behaviors yourself and it isn’t being successful, and the differences between yourself and another individual are to such a degree that it simply continues to be bothersome to you, then there’s nothing bad or wrong with you making the choice to not participate with them any longer. Or – it doesn’t even have to be that black and white – or to participate with them on a limited basis.

And in that, making the choice that is more genuine for you. And in that, understanding that you’re not doing yourself or the other individual a favor by continuing to be bothered and twisting yourself in the attempt to be participating with another individual that you continue to be bothered by.

ANN: Yes. This whole movement into being genuine. Yeah, I think it’s all very easily within my grasp. It all, it feels very doable. So thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

ANN: Now I’m going to shift back to a little fun thing. I just was thinking, you know Ordin, one of my essence guides or whatever, so we’re camping and oh my god, all these little creatures that delight me. Little chipmunks, I saw a chipmunk, I saw a little hummingbird, it was right buzz, buzz, buzz, oh hummingbird! (Elias laughs) I walked down to the creek, blue heron, I saw a beautiful blue heron. Is that all Ordin? Is he speaking to me as little…? So if I’m like walking in nature, and I was, I remember Bashar had said something, I don’t even know what I’m doing or whatever, or what I’m listening for or whatever, but Bashar had given some exercise where sitting in nature next to water or feeling the roots of the trees or whatever, but so I’m walking down the nature path and I just tell myself listen, listen, listen to the trees, look at the trees, just like be in the space. I mean it feels good. I’m like, I don’t know what they’re telling me. (Both laugh) So—

ELIAS: They might not be telling you anything.

ANN: Anything. I just thought about they might not even be saying anything, but just listen, listen. So anyhow I just had this idea now. It might be fun because we’re going to be on several camping trips this summer, to ask Ordin to help me connect with nature.


ANN: I kind of want to commune with and understand it. I want to… I don’t know what I want. Maybe a deep (both chuckle), like a deeper understanding or connection or whatever, (Elias laughs) continue to see my animals.

ELIAS: And what do you anticipate will happen?

ANN: I have no clue. Well, I would… Okay, so what I… I don’t remember what Bashar said that if you do that. Oh! Oh! Like I could become… Oh, like they could tell me things, like in one of those books that—

ELIAS: And what do you think a chipmunk will tell you?

ANN: Oh, maybe they could tell me who passed by or maybe for like a tree, you know what would be great? To be able to talk to a tree and say, “Who else has passed by here?” and be able to know. Or even an ancient tree, and be able to say, “Oh, tell me, tell me stories, tree, of all the people that you have seen and experienced and…” Do trees have feelings? Like how they felt about a person? Would that apply?

ELIAS: No. But they do have limited feelings, yes. They have feelings in relation to what is uncomfortable or what is painful or what is comfortable, what is unnatural to them, what is harmful to them—

ANN: So if I hugged a tree, what would that tree be aware of?

ELIAS: It wouldn’t feel what you feel, but it would absorb your energy.

ANN: And it gives me energy.


ANN: Which is nice. Huh. So I guess if I just want to… If I really… I guess it’s really if I want to listen and get information from a chipmunk or a tree or a stork, they’re just going to be giving me chipmunk information. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Precisely.

[The timer for the end of the session rings]

ANN: What a chipmunk does.

ELIAS: Precisely. And I would say that the information from a chipmunk is not going to be very—

ANN: Very beneficial.

ELIAS: — deep or cosmic. It’s going to be about it can’t find one of its nuts.

ANN: Nuts. Okay. All right. All right. So, well—

ELIAS: Or that certain flowers are very tasty.

ANN: Tasty. Oh, well that might be good too to find out.

ELIAS: From a chipmunk. But it might not be applicable to you. (Chuckles)

ANN: Okay. So I will just, I’ll see what Ordin has to tell me about all his nature animals.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANN: Were all those, the stork, the hummingbird, both of those were Ordin? Were all those animals Ordin?


ANN: Okay. Okay. So then – we’ve got to go obviously, because the bell – but I just want to ask you one last thing. So my soon-to-be son-in-law gave John and I a little bit, just a little bit of mushrooms, like psychedelic mushrooms. So we thought maybe when we’re in Yellowstone or whatever, we might take some. What do you think?

ELIAS: Why not?

ANN: Why not? (Elias chuckles) I just want the little experience. John’s into it. We’ll do it and I’ll let you know what happens.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANN: Okay. Elias, this is so—

ELIAS: It should be interesting.

ANN: It should be interesting. (Elias laughs) More exploration.

ELIAS: And THAT might give you some cosmic experience, but the chipmunk won’t. (Laughs)

ANN: All right. I just enjoy the little critters. That’s all I need to do. But yes. I do, actually a cosmic experience, that’s what I want. I want a cosmic experience.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANN: Maybe the mushrooms will help.


ANN: Okay. (Elias laughs) I loved talking to you today. Thank you. And thanks for being one of my guides. I really appreciate it.

ELIAS: You are very welcome, and express my love to your partner also.

ANN: I shall.

ELIAS: And it was unfortunate that he wasn’t participating.

ANN: I know.

ELIAS: But perhaps next time. (Chuckles)

ANN: Yeah. I know. Well one thing about selling the condo is he’s starting to think about retiring, which would be so much fun, and he will have more time.


ANN: Okay. All right, Elias.

ELIAS: Very well, my friend. I shall greatly be looking forward to our next meeting.

ANN: Me too.

ELIAS: In wondrous love to you, great affection and dear, dear friendship as always, au revoir.

ANN: Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 2 hours)

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