Control and Trust; Pain and Chronic Pain; Essence in and Out of Time
“Control and Trust”
“Everything Is a Choice”
“Feelings Are a Red Flag”
“Pain and Chronic Pain”
“Inner Landscape Exercise”
“Essence in and Out of Time”
Saturday, June 3, 2023 (Group/Brattleboro)
Participants: Mary (Michael), Ann (Vivette), Ben (Trae), Christina (Melian), Eric (Doren), Hazra (Letticia), John (Lonn), Karen (Turell), Lynda (Ruther), Mark (Liam), Melissa (Leah), Veronica (Amadis), Xuan (True), and Yvonne (Zarla).
“Where are you in all of that? Where are your choices in all of that?... Because you are the central point in all of this. Everything revolves around you. Each one of you is the sun, and everything in the universe revolves around you and what choices you’re making… all of the choices already exist within you.”
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
GROUP: Good afternoon, Elias!
ELIAS: Now; for this day, what important subjects do you have?
KAREN: I want to talk about control.
ELIAS: Control? Very well.
KAREN: So one thing I’ve been noticing in the past couple of weeks is, as my professional life is accelerating in unexpected directions that might have worried me or frightened me in the past, now what’s happening is I’m just allowing it, and there’s almost this physical sensation of not feeling. It feels weird, but I’m also not trying to exert control. I’m just allowing things to unfold, but it feels very strange. And I think this is, you know a lot of times you talk about control and I’m aware that perhaps this physical sensation is just the uncomfortable element of not being used to operating without control. Would you agree?
KAREN: But will that change eventually?
ELIAS: And do you feel afraid sometimes?
KAREN: There is… I go into moments of worry, like “Oh! But what if…? What if…?” and then I’m like no, it’s actually okay. If something goes off track, I will just… I will correct the course. That’s okay. But it’s, it’s very strange. That’s the noticeable thing. It feels very strange. And the other thing is I think, well what will people think of these unexpected directions I’m going in? And I’m like oh, you’re comparing. Okay, well if you stop comparing then you don’t care. Then it’s fine. And so I thought oh, I think this is what Elias is talking about when he’s talking about control. It’s sort of this underlying bed of operating system that we’re not, that we’re not really aware of. It’s going on at all points.
ELIAS: I would agree. I would also say that this is shifting importances. Because in this, what was important was to be in control and now you’re moving in a direction in which you’re looking at what you’re doing, you’re looking at what is important to you and what isn’t important to you. And when you recognize what isn’t important, in many situations that is letting go of that control, because it isn’t important, what people will think. What if this happens? What if that happens? What am I doing if I’m not being precise about everything? What if this doesn’t work? If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. Then you choose something else.
And in that, what if something is very important to you and it isn’t being successful? Why is it so important to you? When you shift the importances, many, many times you are also without actually realizing it shifting away from control.
ANN: Oh my god! So synchy-synchy!
ELIAS: Because many times as you said, you don’t even realize that you’re expressing control. It’s so interwoven into everything you do, and you’ve been being taught that from the time you were a very small child, toddlers, you’re being taught control. And in that, it’s so automatic you don’t even realize that you’re expressing control.
Many people, you express to them, “You’re being controlling,” and their response is, “No, I’m not. I’m not a controlling person,” when they very well may be, because it’s so automatic and they don’t even realize what they’re doing. You’re starting to realize where those points of control have been, and now you’re moving in a direction of making different choices and shifting those importances. And yes, it does feel strange and yes, it will change. It won’t remain strange forever. You’ll become accustomed to this new direction, and that’s called trust.
ELIAS: And let me say to you that this is also a point that people don’t realize, because you throw around that word trust so much that you don’t actually know what it means anymore – not that you knew what it meant to begin with – but even what you thought it meant may be not accurate. And in this, now you are actually learning what genuine trust is. And you are correct, it does feel strange because it’s not what you’re accustomed to.
ANN: Does this lead into the foresight you were talking about? I feel like this is the pre-step to foresight.
ANN: I feel like I’ve been having little inklings of foresight that I may have not paid attention or ignored and it wasn’t good… (Elias chuckles and Ann laughs)
ELIAS: Yes. The more you trust yourself, the more you pay attention to your choices – which is another very important factor – but the more you pay attention to your choices and the more you aren’t moving in the direction of control and you are allowing, that combination of choosing and allowing moves you in the direction of being able to express that foresight.
ANN: Yeah, it almost feels… Okay, so what you’re saying is just so synchy. It almost feels like this space is opening up or clearing almost. It feels things are just… I don’t even know the words. You probably have the words, but I understand. I believe I understand it without being able to express it, but yeah.
MARK: I have a real quick question.
MARK: It seems like the topic previously was choice, in words, choice, trust, maybe in reverse order.
LYNDA: And allowing, allowing.
MARK: Yeah, allowing is part of the trust I think. Right? Kinda, sort of?
ELIAS: Yes and no.
MARK: Okay. So here’s, here’s what I’ve got to say. It seems like you make a choice and you trust it, you can thrive. That’s pretty simple, but…
ELIAS: I agree.
ANN: And I think where we get tripped up sometimes, because you make a choice and we like, “Oh, was it the right choice?”
MARK: (Inaudible) Yeah, we change it. We trust it—
ANN: But you know. But whatever choice you have made is quote-unquote “the right choice,” right? No? (Laughs)
ELIAS: In one manner of speaking, yes.
MARK: Can you talk about that—
MARK: — in relation to what Karen was starting off with?
ELIAS: Yes. That every choice that you make won’t necessarily be the right choice for you. It’s not the wrong choice, but what that means is that you might make a choice that you might not be satisfied with or you might not like the outcome of a particular choice. And that doesn’t mean it’s a wrong choice. What it means is, that was the choice that you made as either an experiment or you made a choice in a direction because you’re not paying attention. And therefore that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong choice, because it will give you information, but it may not be a choice that you’re happy with or that you’re satisfied with. This happens many times in relation to physical expressions, that people engage physical manifestations very often that they don’t like, and they’re not comfortable with. Those are choices also. You don’t think of them as choices. You think they simply happen or that your body is doing something or it’s choosing something. No. Your body doesn’t have a brain. Your body has a brain in it, but your brain isn’t what is making the choices. You are.
In that, you’re making choices to tell your brain to do certain things, but your brain is not what’s actually making the choices. In that, your body doesn’t think. You think, but your body does not. Therefore it isn’t doing things on its own. It’s not making decisions on its own. It’s not making choices on its own. You’re making choices, but you don’t always look at what you’re doing as being a choice. Such as with your situation, you trip and fall. You don’t look at that as being a choice. You think of choice as being something that you want or something that you want to happen. That’s not necessarily correct. Everything is a choice. Everything. Every moment. Every movement. Everything is a choice. That doesn’t mean it’s an intentional choice. It doesn’t mean you know that you’re choosing something, but you are.
In that, this is what we continue to discuss and engage in information about, and in relation to shifting, that you’re moving in the direction of intentional choices, that you’re moving in the direction of becoming more self-aware. Which, what does that mean?
ANN: Aware of what we’re doing.
ELIAS: Aware of yourself.
ANN: Aware of ourself, and what we’re doing.
ELIAS: By extension, yes. When you are self-aware, then yes, by extension, you are aware of what you’re doing and therefore you are more informed and can make choices intentionally. And in that, then you don’t have this word of “accidents.”
MARK: Or coincidences.
ELIAS: Or coincidences. Those don’t exist anyway but you think they do, because they are what happens when you’re not aware of what you’re choosing, when you are not aware of what you’re doing and yourself, and therefore you aren’t paying attention to what you’re choosing. It doesn’t mean those choices are hidden from you. It simply means you’re not paying attention to them.
MARK: So if we make an aware choice, an intentional choice, to take an action or to do something, whatever it may be, with a not-known outcome, how does that play into what you’re saying? There’s no, we don’t know what’s going to happen when we make that choice. Do you know what I’m saying? Because you are always saying we got to allow and that plays into the whole, you’re making a choice because you have an impression or an intuition to make that choice, to take an action.
ELIAS: Not necessarily. It may not have anything to do with an impression or an intuition.
ELIAS: It may be simply that you want to do something or you want to have something, and therefore you’re making choices in relation to that and moving in those directions. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you know precisely what an outcome is going to be. Sometimes you do. Sometimes in relation to being intentional, making an intentional choice and coupling that with determination, you can be making a choice in which there’s no doubt and you do know what the outcome is.
MARK: And that’s not control?
ELIAS: No. That’s directing.
ANN: Oh, can I, can I give a scenario? So it’s interesting, like I had said okay, I wanted to make (inaudible) She said we don’t make health our priority. So I made a choice. I want to feel good, look good, be good in my body. I just, I just said that and that’s, I felt like that was the choice I made. And then to me, control might have been like, “Okay, I have to do this, I’ve got to run, I’ve got to exercise, I’ve got to whatever,” but it’s kind of like okay you make a choice and then I just… You know, just let, just let go. And then I find this center, like this wellness center that I started going to, and I’m like oh, I feel so good when I leave it, you know, and it has all these things and I’m like oh, this feels wonderful. And I realized in hindsight that I had made a choice and these choices are happening somehow, but I’m not controlling these choices happening. I mean, I don’t know but maybe what you say, it’s directing. Is it because I make this choice and then all of a sudden, since I want to do that, then I’m like paying attention? Like I might have missed that ad before, of this center that I went to and it made me feel good? I’m just trying to figure out the mechanics of it, so to speak, because in my mind it almost… As you know, I like magic. It almost all just feels like magic. Like you just say, “I want this to happen,” and then boom! This happens. But I’m sure—
ELIAS: Everything is interconnected. And what determines what is happening in that interconnectedness is your attention.
ANN: Your attention!
ELIAS: Therefore when you’re not paying attention to something, you may notice that it seems everything is going wrong, or you’re moving in directions that aren’t yielding what you want. Because the things that you do want, you’re not paying attention to. Therefore yes, you missed it. You missed it because you weren’t paying attention. Therefore even if that ad was directly in front of you, if that wasn’t what you were paying attention to, you wouldn’t see it. You won’t see what is directly in front of you if you’re not paying attention. And that doesn’t mean that you’re not paying attention to anything. You’re paying attention to something. You’re simply not paying attention to what’s directly in front of you.
This is the reason that I have expressed many times with many individuals that express to myself, “Elias, express to me what is my greatest obstacle?”
MARK: Yourself. (Laughs)
ELIAS: You can’t see your greatest obstacle. Therefore what difference will it be if I tell you what it is? You can’t see it anyway. In that, you’re not going to hear it either. You’re not going to see. You’re not going to hear whatever is directly in front of you until you are paying more attention to you. When you are being more self-aware, when you’re paying attention genuinely to you, which means “What am I doing?” Not only “What am I doing physically,” but “What is happening inside of me? What am I paying attention to?”
Am I paying attention to everything that’s not enough? That I never have enough time, I never have enough money, I never have enough of what I want, I don’t have enough attention, I don’t have enough love, I don’t have enough? Not enough. Not enough. Not enough. Not enough. And whatever it is that you’re paying attention to, everything is interconnected. Therefore if you’re paying attention to not enough in one direction, it’s going to affect every direction. It’s going to affect everything in your life. If you’re paying attention to everything that you can see is positive and that you do have enough and that you are satisfied in your life, you’re going to create more and more of that. And that’s what you’re going to see.
If you buy a brand-new red car, you’re suddenly going to notice every other red car on the road because that’s what you’re paying attention to and that’s what you’re making important. You made that brand-new red car important. You like it. It’s important to you, and now suddenly everywhere you look, everyone else has a brand-new red car.
MARK: The bastards. (Group laughter)
ELIAS: That’s because you’re making something important and you’re paying attention to it. And remember: you only pay attention to what is important, and importances are expressed in varying degrees. Some things are more important, some things are less important, but you don’t pay attention to things that are not important at all. If something is not important to you, you won’t pay attention to it. This is the reason that I have expressed to people in regard to relationships that when they are expressing tremendous frustration with their partner that they have expressed repeatedly over and over and over again, “Don’t do this! This bothers me. It distresses me. Don’t do it!” (Group laughter) “And I have expressed that a thousand times to my partner, and my partner keeps doing it. What? If they love me, they won’t do it again.” Wrong.
Because what’s important to YOU may not be important to your partner, and it isn’t a matter of your partner doesn’t love you or that you’re not important to your partner, but what you’re telling them might not be important. Therefore, they might think about it for a day and genuinely try to pay attention to that, and all it will take is one distraction and that whole subject is out of their head and they don’t think about it anymore. And a week from then, you will express again, “I told you this is important to me. Don’t do it!” and they’ll say, “I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I won’t do it again.” And they will, because it’s not important to them. And in this, you don’t pay attention to things that aren’t important to you.
Now; what isn’t important to you? It’s you. And you think you’re paying attention to you, because you can say, “I know what I did today. I went to the store. I drove my vehicle. I played with my cat. I walked my dog. I talked to my partner. We went out to dinner.” And where are you in all of that? And where are your choices in all of that? (Pause) And if you have high blood pressure, where is that in the equation of that day? Or if you have a chronic cough, how is that factoring into that day?
MARK: Are you talking about me? (Group laughter)
ELIAS: Or if you are at odds with your sister-in-law, how did that factor into your choices that day? Or if you’re not happy with your neighbour, how did that factor into your day? None of those things are factoring into your day because those are not things you’re paying attention to. And the reason you’re not paying attention to them is because you’re not paying attention to you. Because you are the central point in all of this. Everything revolves around you. Each one of you is the sun, and everything in the universe revolves around you and what choices you’re making.
Therefore what choices ARE you making? And in that, are you being controlling or are you being directing and do you know what the difference is and can you feel the difference in how you function? And in that, are you listening to your own signals? Remember: ALL feelings, ALL feelings – it doesn’t matter if they are emotional, it doesn’t matter if they are physical – ALL feelings are generated by the body. Your body creates all feelings. And what are they? They’re all signals. They’re not a communication in themselves. They’re simply a signal. They are a red flag saying, “Pay attention to me. Not the feeling, me!” Meaning YOU. Pay attention to YOU. What are you doing that’s making that feeling happen? People think that their feelings are a result or a reaction to other people or to situations or circumstances. No, they’re not. They are yours. They only belong to you and they are always a signal to you about what you’re doing in that moment.
Therefore if you hammer your finger and it hurts, what are you doing? No, it’s not that you hammered your finger. That’s not the point of what you’re doing in that moment. What else are you doing that made that happen? If you have some physical manifestation, if you have anxiety, anything, these are all signals to you about what you’re doing. And in that, the point is to be more self-aware. The more you’re aware of you and the more present you are, the more you’re going to have the information to make choices that are to your benefit and what you want. And other people factor into that also, because you’re not occupying this reality alone. And in that, it’s a matter of what choices are you making in relation to each other? And how are you interacting with each other? Are you generating cooperation with each other or are you moving in a different direction? And remember: cooperation is not the expression that everyone gets what they want. That’s not what it’s about. It’s everyone moves in the direction of their greatest benefit and doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to get what you want.
In this, there are so many expressions of paying attention to you and what that means and how important that is— (the dogs bark loudly and Elias chuckles) – and how easy it is to distract your attention. (Group laughter) How easy it is for you to move your attention: “Ah! A sound is happening!” Your senses are the director of you. (Laughs)
MARK: You almost told us to pay attention to the dogs (the dogs continue to bark loudly) to listen to you.
ERIC: So if you’re choosing, is it possible to choose an experience that would not be your preference, but just to try it out?
ERIC: In (inaudible) the physical plane—
ERIC: — is just sort of a smorgasbord, pulling like à la carte and go, “Oh yeah! Okay. No, don’t like that one. I’ll pick this other one, and—
ELIAS: Absolutely. Yes.
KAREN: To dovetail with, onto what Eric was saying, so the other day I was in Maine and I decided to do far more things in one day than I probably should have, but I also knew it was an experiment. And at the end of the day I thought wow, you really did do too many things and you were forcing your energy. Now by me acknowledging it and being very aware, like number one, going into it as an experiment, and number two, assessing, did it…? Okay, I don’t know if this is going to make sense. Did it have lingering effects of negativity on me besides I was tired? Like is the awareness—
KAREN: Okay. So then it just sort of flushed it from my system?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.
ELIAS: It isn’t even that dramatic.
ELIAS: It simply doesn’t have a residual energy.
KAREN: But if I didn’t know, since I was… I’m prone—
ELIAS: That’s very different.
KAREN: Yeah, since I have been prone to forcing energy in my life, that would just be one more drop in the bucket of forcing energy. Got you.
ELIAS: Or more than a drop.
KAREN: (Laughs) Right.
ELIAS: In that invisible container that you carry around with yourself, as you all do. And in that, then eventually holding that energy, you create something else. Energy will be expressed, in one manner or another. You cannot contain it forever. And when you hold energy for any length of time, it will be expressed in manners that you don’t necessarily like. But I would say that is what you would term to be residual energy.
ANN: Could you release held energy just physically, versus having to know what was going on or what you were thinking about?
ANN: So it’s just like doing your body scan. I can release energy without changing my belief about something, that was… or my patterns or something? Like if I had a pattern of holding energy that caused a physical manifestation, anyway? Most physical manifestations are caused because of held energy, right?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANN: So let’s say I’m holding it because I resent somebody or whatever, but I’m not focusing on the resentment of the person but I just… I can feel my body, you know, get in tune with your body, like every day I did these exercises just to release and flow. Would that be enough? Or do you really need to kind of get to the…? I assume if you don’t change—
ELIAS: It’s enough in the moment.
ANN: In the moment. And if you don’t change what you’re doing, then it’ll build up again?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. (Dogs bark loudly)
YVONNE: Well, would that be like the signal that this was something ongoing to address versus like oh, I used to create something like held energy in my hips for example, and this is (inaudible) energy? Like if I wasn’t practicing doing that anymore, it might build up unless I started doing something else that (inaudible) attention.
ELIAS: Yes. If you are continuing to express the same behaviors, the same actions, it’s going to do the same thing. It’s going to continue to hold energy.
Now; yes, you can release that energy, but if you don’t change the behavior you’re simply going to build it again. Therefore yes, it’s important to be self-aware and therefore know what you’re doing, and therefore to be able to see what your behaviors are, which are your choices. Every behavior you have is a choice. And in that, as you recognize what your behaviors are, then you can see what influences you to hold energy or what doesn’t.
ANN: What you’re saying though is (inaudible) to the fact, your feelings signal you to the fact that you’re—
MARK: Holding energy?
ANN: Maybe. Or they could.
ELIAS: It’s possible. They don’t always. It depends on what the feeling is. Some feelings are actually associated with releasing energy. Therefore it’s not necessarily—
MARK: Could I have an example of that?
ELIAS: Of releasing energy?
MARK: No. Some feeling was… What did you say?
ELIAS: Some feelings are a signal in relation to releasing energy. Some feelings can be a signal in relation to holding energy. If you are feeling anxiety, anxiousness is holding energy. If you are feeling sorrow, you’re likely releasing energy.
MARK: Okay. (Inaudible) Thank you.
ELIAS: But you could also be expressing the same in physical capacities. You can generate a certain physical action and you can feel the energy release. You can also generate certain physical actions and you can feel the tension.
MARK: So laughter could be a…
MARK: The same thing as sadness.
MARK: As you’ve just defined that.
ELIAS: Yes. Although laughter isn’t always a release, because some people may use laughter as an expression of holding energy. It’s a camouflage.
MARK: Yeah. I just know some people laugh to release energy.
ELIAS: Many people do. Many people do.
MARK: Not even, like it’s uncontrollable. (Elias chuckles) Hm. Interesting. I actually had a friend of mine who had a stroke and I think that’s what was happening to him. He would release his energy. He didn’t even… he had no control over it. He’d start laughing. Thank you.
ELIAS: You are welcome. (Chuckles)
YVONNE: Elias, do you have a tight three minutes of stand-up comedy for us? (Group laughter)
ELIAS: (Laughs) No. (Group laughter)
ANN: (To Yvonne) Were you dared to ask that question or what?
YVONNE: No! I… No. (Group laughter and Elias laughs) I so wanted it. (Group laughter)
ELIAS: (Chuckles) Do you?
YVONNE: No, I don’t. (Elias laughs) I came unprepared.
ELIAS: Very well. (Chuckles)
MARK: Maybe next time.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) Very well. We shall break and then we shall resume.
GROUP: Thank you.
(Break after 43 minutes)
ELIAS: Continuing. No questions? (Chuckles)
MARK: That quick, huh?
ANN: Let’s talk about A.I.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANN: Alternate intelligence. So has the kind of alternate intelligence, is it here already? Let’s say there’s a programable, what we have programed it into doing is one type, but the other type that can start thinking for itself, is it here yet, in our reality? (Elias nods) OOOOOH!
YVONNE: Is that like in the chat functions, where it like kind of makes stuff up that’s like combining things?
ELIAS: It’s a beginning.
YVONNE: Yeah. That’s what I thought.
ELIAS: Or that’s a beginning in your part of the world. There are other expressions of it in other parts of the world that are much more advanced.
FEMALE: Like in China? And India?
ANN: Wow! ‘Cause they do those robots! Wow. That’s kind of cool. Right, I don’t know enough about it to ask anything. (Group laughter) That’s my only questions (inaudible). (Group laughter and Elias laughs) Or we could talk about is there any similarities between the rate of AI growing versus, is there any correlation versus, with us being able to make contact with extra-terrestrials?
ANN: There’s no correlation at all?
ELIAS: No. (Group chatter and laughter)
MARK: I’ve got a question about the previous conversation, in relation to my favorite subject of feelings. Where you’re making a statement about holding energy, you’re using anxiety as an example. So if you’re experiencing anxiety, is that always an indicator that you’re holding energy? I got a little confused about how you (inaudible).
ELIAS: With anxiety, I would say yes.
MARK: Define anxiety. (Pause) I love words, man.
ELIAS: Anxiety is the action of being anxious, which is an agitation. Actually technically what it is, is an agitation of the nervous system that generates an uncomfortable feeling that is not quite fear, but it’s similar to fear.
MARK: Okay. So if I’m… Let me give you an example (inaudible). If I’m in a room with one or more people and I experience the feeling of anxiety, me personally, that’s a signal telling me what I’m doing in the moment. So the next question is… Obviously, you know, every moment’s different for every person. If I’m next to another person that is also experiencing anxiety and I’m tapping into that, me personally, is that….? And I know I’m creating that interpretation with my own feelings, as you have told me many, many times. They’re not projecting it at me. They’re not giving it to me. I’m just tapping into that and sensing it. What’s the… What’s the message I’m supposed to get out of that? That I’m tapping into that? Or… Following my question?
ELIAS: What are you doing in that moment?
MARK: I’m tapping into that other energy.
ELIAS: What are you DOING in that moment?
MARK: I’m not paying attention to myself.
ANN: Whoa! That’s always the answer.
ELIAS: It’s not always the answer. (Group laughter and chatter)
MARK: So, so that said, like I am not laughing (inaudible) experiencing. (Group laughter) So – and thank you for that. That’s great. Once I start paying attention to myself, and I receive the message, correct? Should that feeling dissipate? Or is that tricky business?
ELIAS: It is somewhat tricky business, because it might. It depends on what the message is. And in that, the feeling might dissipate and it might disappear – or it might not.
MARK: It depends on what the message is.
ANN: So are you feeling anxiety now?
ELIAS: And it—
ELIAS: And it depends on what you DO with the message.
MARK: (To Ann) No. No, I don’t think I am. (To Elias) On what you do with the message. Define that please.
ELIAS: What choice are you going to make, with the message?
MARK: I’m just paying attention to myself, knowing what you’re saying right now, if I’m understanding that well.
ELIAS: If you’re generating a feeling, that’s a signal. If you are looking at what the statement is about what you’re doing in the moment, then it’s a matter of looking at that you have choices then. You can keep doing what you’re doing, which will likely ensure that that signal will keep happening, or you can make a choice to do something different and change what you’re doing, and therefore change what you’re feeling.
MARK: Understood. So in that moment of experiencing that anxiety, you had also made a statement that you’re holding onto energy. So if you continue on that path, not a healthy outcome?
ELIAS: I would agree.
ELIAS: Generally when you are holding energy, especially if you are holding energy for any length of time, you’re most likely going to create some type of physical manifestation.
MARK: Yeah, so for me it like creates a… I almost feel a constriction. I don’t know why that happens, but—
ANN: I feel it too.
MARK: You? (Inaudible)
ANN: Well, anxiety has been a big part of what I have dealt with most of my life, and I feel like it is a constriction.
MARK: You do?
ANN: That’s the way I experience anxiety, is like a (inhales sharply), like someone’s squeezing your heart.
MARK: I actually get it in my muscles, my arms. So another topic that was brought up with Mary was pain. You know, pain is not pleasant. Pain never is. So that’s like an ongoing signal that someone’s not getting the message?
ELIAS: Not always.
MARK: Please elaborate.
ELIAS: Sometimes yes. Sometimes, when an individual has an ongoing pain—
MARK: Which is a feeling. Which is a signal.
MARK: Yeah. No matter what. You said that. We’re creating that.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
MARK: By the choices that we make.
Now; in that, sometimes you are creating a pain and it is a signal in relation to what you’re doing in the moment. Sometimes some people create chronic pain because they’ve generated some type of damage.
Now; can that be changed? Yes, it can. But that doesn’t mean that most people understand that they can change that. In that, the pain is a signal. When you have a physical pain, it’s a signal to you that something is dysfunctioning. Something is damaged. Something is dysfunctioning in your body and that’s the reason you generate a physical pain.
MARK: You’re referring to chronic pain.
ELIAS: Now; chronic pain can be somewhat different. The individual may HAVE addressed to – they may not – but they may have addressed to what the cause of that is, but then they’ve also done damage. Let me give you another example—
MARK: That’s a pretty tricky business.
ELIAS: Let me give you another example that you can understand or relate to.
MARK: Please do.
MARK: Yeah? Thank you.
ELIAS: In that, you can be smoking for many years and in that, you can generate some type of damage and that damage then can be chronic. And in that, you may have addressed to the issue of smoking. You may have stopped smoking. You may have moved in directions of addressing to all of the parts of that, but you’ve also done damage. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you know how to undo that damage.
MARK: Well, you’re going to teach me.
ELIAS: That would be regeneration.
MARK: So I just want to… Probably a lot of people won’t know, so… One year ago, I stopped smoking. I smoked for forty plus years, at least more than a pack a day. I was actually here in this house. I walked outside with Debbie and after having a session about stopping smoking, a neighbor across the street came across and said to Debbie, “Hey! Did you quit smoking yet?” It was the strangest experience. I just got out of a session about I need, for my health I need to stop smoking. So that… This, right here, encouraged me to stop. That like drove it home, and then I walked out of here on Sunday and I within two weeks, forty years of that… So the damage, I’m assuming because of my habit changes, my exercise, my… and I’m putting myself out here right now. How are we doing there?
ELIAS: It’s getting better, and it is regenerating.
MARK: That’s good, because that’s what I feel as well. Interesting—
ANN: So when you want to make a choice to regenerate, I’m making a choice to regenerate, what do I do? How do I choose that?
ELIAS: Do an inner landscape.
MARK: So… that’s great. Okay. So, here’s… I’m going to again open myself up and tell you that… How do I say this? You’ve recommended that for me as well. So, the whole subject here is about trust. So I’ll trust myself to do that. I don’t know how to do that. So then you recommend doing the inner landscape. So the question is… I try to do that. You say visualize a scene, some type of landscape. I actually… Maybe this is right or wrong, I don’t know if it is, but I visualize a, for me it’s a waterfall on a lake, and there’s water going in this lake. And it’s a still picture, all right, but there’s also an outlet. And in my mind, I think of it as my body’s clearing out the old cells, the damaged cells. The water on one side is fresh water coming in, which is the new. And you told me that cells – and correct me if I say it wrong – but you said that cells will regenerate, good ones or bad ones. So you have to have some kind of conscious choice, I—
ELIAS: No. You don’t.
ELIAS: No. You don’t.
MARK: You have to tell yourself?
ELIAS: Not with an inner landscape.
ELIAS: You don’t have to know—
MARK: So explain that. You don’t have to know. So okay, all right. Right. He says you don’t have to know how it works.
MARK: So now we’ve got to the point of you just have to trust it.
MARK: And my example earlier, and again now, as in even though I don’t even understand it, the only thing I can trust is that I trust my body to breathe. Those are the only similarities I can come up with that I can… I just do it. I trust my legs to go left and right (laughs), one foot and—
ELIAS: And actually—
MARK: And as far as healing myself, I have no clue how that happens and—
ELIAS: And everyone will express in a different manner. This is how YOU do it, and in that, the reason that the inner landscape is effective is because you don’t have to know what you’re doing. All you have to do is create a picture, and then your subjective awareness will take over from that point. And it will create the movie.
MARK: So what if I don’t see the movie?
ELIAS: If you don’t see the movie, change the landscape.
YVONNE: So when I do it, I have the initial movie and then I feel stuff starting to move, but I don’t really get an image with it, or it’ll get—
ELIAS: You don’t have to. Not everyone sees a picture. Some people generate an impression of a picture, an idea of a picture, a feeling about a picture. You don’t have to have an actual visual picture, because not everyone is a visual person.
MARK: So Mary had mentioned something about this twilight, when you’re in between sleep and…
MARK: It kind of feels like that for me. I had an experience with this. I was doing the inner landscape exercise for myself. In that water where these fish, I couldn’t even tell you what kind of fish, but they just showed up and they started eating the bad cells. (Laughs) I don’t know if that’s accurate. Can you validate, Elias?
MARK: So in that moment, my body was actually healing itself?
MARK: By eating the… So the fish were… In my mind, I’m thinking oh, this is just ridiculous.
MARK: No, I’m just saying. I’m telling you—
ELIAS: Yes. The inner landscape—
MARK: I’m saying, this is just something I’m making up. (Laughs)
ELIAS: And most people might think that. The—
MARK: Okay. Is there anything wrong with doing that?
ELIAS: The inner landscape is the opposite of dreaming.
MARK: It seems that way.
ELIAS: Dreams are the objective interpretation of subjective action. Your objective awareness creates imagery that’s translating what your subjective awareness is doing. An inner landscape is the opposite. It is the subjective creating imagery about what the objective awareness is doing. Therefore, when you see fish eating things or you see a crocodile chomping things or you see an elk stomping flowers, that is the subjective imagery about what you’re doing objectively and that’s how you’re damaging yourself. And by the subjective creating that imagery, it’s instructing the body to do something different. Therefore it’s acknowledging the damage or the destruction that you’re doing objectively and it’s then instructing the body consciousness to do the opposite.
KAREN: So my question was sometimes – this doesn’t happen as much as it used to, but when I first started, as I was doing it and things were unfolding I would start trying to interpret. Like oh, this is happening because it’s addressing this. And then I’m trying to just sort of quell that—
KAREN: — interpretation.
MARK: He told me to get out of my own way.
ELIAS: Yes. Don’t try to interpret it. It’s not necessary and you’re like going to be incorrect. Therefore it’s pointless.
MARK: So this exercise, back to the topic of chronic pain, that’s the exercise. Back to the topic of chronic pain that we were talking about. That’s the best way to work on that?
ELIAS: There are many different methods that you can engage, but the inner landscape would be effective and efficient. It depends on the individual, and what, what you trust. Some individuals will trust an acupuncturist. Some individuals will trust the inner landscape. Some individuals will trust supplements and herbs. Some individuals will trust a physician. It depends on the individual.
MARK: As long as you trust it.
CHRISTINA: So you have to believe it’s going to work.
MARK: Not so much believe it—
MARK: — but trust it.
ELIAS: You don’t initially have to believe it. And no, eventually yes, you will in whatever method is successful for you. When you give yourself a successful outcome, even if it’s small, that will influence you to trust whatever method you’ve chosen. You don’t have to begin believing it. And remember: believing something is simply another word for trusting it. Therefore if you don’t believe something to begin with, you’re not trusting it, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t be successful. And in that, what is significant is that when you move in a direction of trying something, you may not be believing something but you’re open. Therefore you’re moving in a certain direction TO benefit yourself, even though you’re not necessarily believing it yet, or you wouldn’t move in that direction at all.
CHRISTINA: Right. Okay.
VERONICA: I am… I have a problem win an overactive bladder.
VERONICA: (Laughs) And I tried so many things, believing that it will happen as I would like it to be. Talking to it, sending energy, but I still have the problem. I don’t how, what to do.
ELIAS: I know. And we have had this conversation many times, about this particular manifestation.
ELIAS: But this is actually an excellent example, that you’re saying “I’m doing this and believing it will be successful.” That’s not necessarily entirely accurate.
VERONICA: Well I hope there’s a bit of hope in there, too.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) And we all know what I express about hope.
MARK: Don’t do it! (Laughs)
ELIAS: Hope is, hope is definitely moving you in a direction of disappointment. I would say that – now this moves very much in conjunction with the discussion that we’ve been having, this theme of being self-aware and moving in the direction of intentional choices. And without being self-aware, you can engage some intentional choices and they will be successful, but it’s…
MARK: A crap shoot?
ELIAS: Somewhat. It’s somewhat random.
Now; there are some situations with some people in which they can be consistent in intentional choices but only in certain, specific situations. Michael can cure a dis-ease in the physical body, but only if it’s life-threatening. No other time. Someone can be manifesting something consistently over and over and over again in a positive direction, and they have no doubt and they believe that they will create this certain manifestation consistently because they always do, but then they won’t be able to do other things. It depends on the individual.
And what I would say to you is, those are unusual – I won’t necessarily say rare, but they are unusual expressions when an individual will intentionally create something and not be self-aware. The factor of self-awareness, in a manner of speaking, guarantees you that you will be successful in intentional choices because you know what you’re doing and you have no doubt.
Now; many times, people will generate a physical manifestation and it may be an ongoing physical manifestation, which is the definition of chronic. And in that, with some chronic manifestations such as that or a chronic illness, the person is creating that because the body consciousness is reacting. The body is very reactive. It reacts to everything you do.
In this, that is the point, is to be aware of what are you doing. Not simply looking at an aspect of your body, one part of your body that’s dysfunctioning and expressing in many different capacities, only addressing to that.
MARK: The whole.
ELIAS: Yes. It is about the whole. And in that, it’s a matter of looking at what are you doing on an ongoing basis, that your body is reflecting that. As I’ve expressed, this is not about age.
But what I will say in relation to this particular type of physical manifestation is that I have expressed to other individuals recently that you can be generating certain types of control on an ongoing basis throughout your life in relation to physical control, and one of the most common physical expressions of control is to hold your bladder. And people do this repeatedly throughout their lives, and eventually that act of continuously, repeatedly holding your bladder, eventually what happens is those muscles break down. They have been put in a state of tension so much and so long for so many years that the muscles actually begin to break down and they lose their elasticity. And in doing so, then you have this problem of incontinence.
Now; in that, it’s also a matter still of looking at what are you doing on an ongoing basis, in addition to the physical damage. But you have done physical damage, and then it’s a matter of moving in directions of repairing that, regeneration. Very similar to the smoking. When you generate years and years and years of destructive behavior, it takes a toll.
MARK: But it can be fixed.
ELIAS: It CAN be, but the point is you cannot only target one part of your body.
MARK: You have to do it all.
ELIAS: Yes. You have to include the whole of your body. You have to pay attention to the whole. This is the reason that the inner landscape is very successful in so many different capacities, because you don’t have to know what’s happening. You don’t have to know how to fix it.
MARK: And where does self-awareness play into what you’re saying right now?
ELIAS: Because you’re making an—
ELIAS: — intentional choice.
MARK: So in my case, what I have—
ELIAS: You’re being self-directing.
MARK: (Inaudible) Okay. So I’ve got… multiple years of not being aware. I’ve started going to these group sessions. My first group session there was a lot of people here and my self-awareness has changed. (Inaudible) I basically ignore all the signals (inaudible). I come more often and whatever. Smoking but did damage all those years. (Inaudible) aware when self-awareness increased, I become consciously aware of the damage that I did to my body, and I have to, I don’t have to but I’m making a choice to address to it. But it’s not just one thing, it’s multiple things?
MARK: And it’s (inaudible) and it goes back to—
ELIAS: For a time.
MARK: It goes back to the original trust, choices, thriving. This is it.
MARK: Whether I know how it works or not, as far as the healing portion, it doesn’t matter. Right?
MARK: And if I get doubts on occasion, that doesn’t matter? I should be reminding myself.
ELIAS: Correct. No, that won’t change the directive.
MARK: Okay. But always have that intention?
MARK: And always have that trust. Cool.
VERONICA: So the inner landscape would be working on the higher body consciousness?
VERONICA: But the bladder, which is the weakest would take the longest?
ELIAS: Not necessarily. Not necessarily. But it also is a matter of using that inner landscape, in a manner of speaking, properly. Meaning setting the intention. In that, if you have something—
VERONICA: Before you do it?
ELIAS: — specific that is bothersome to you. Not “I don’t want to be incontinent any longer.” Rather, if you’re using the inner landscape, you might choose to set the intention to regenerate the muscle cells and tissue, therefore regenerating the elasticity with that. And that would be what would correct it.
VERONICA: Okay. Because I don’t want to wait seven years for all those cells.
ELIAS: I understand. But it doesn’t. That’s not necessary.
MARK: So what about—
VERONICA: Thank you.
MARK: What about behaviors that originally contributed to the…?
ELIAS: If you keep generating—
MARK: So this is back to the whole. This is back to looking at the whole.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
MARK: So if you have behaviors that actually caused or contributed to the manifestation—
ELIAS: And you keep doing it, then—
MARK: You’re defeating yourself.
YVONNE: So if someone had like, like I have nodules on my thyroid that I would like to go away. Is the inner landscape good for like diminishing something like that?
CHRISTINA: What about like with my arm? It’s still, and my shoulder, it’s still healing and I’m still in pain and I want to help. But is it something I’m doing or is that that I’m causing the pain by what I’m doing? Or is that a chronic thing? Or…?
ELIAS: What I would say to you – and this is also a good example of something that is somewhat the opposite. No, it’s not what you’re doing. It’s what you’re not doing.
ELIAS: And in that, it’s a matter of, as you and I discussed previously, you use your body for the emotional expressions that you don’t allow. You don’t allow for emotional expressions and therefore you use your body and create pain instead. Which some people do. In that, it’s a matter of paying attention to what you’re doing or what you’re not doing. Not doing meaning – let’s use you as an example in this, and what you’re not doing is being supportive to family members, rather than worrying about them and being concerned about them. What you’re doing is being worried about them and concerned about them, instead of doing the supportive and stopping the worry and the concern. Therefore as long as you keep expressing that worry and concern, you’re going to keep creating the physical manifestation. Therefore you’re going to continue to create the physical discomfort.
But also understand in all of this, when you do something that injures yourself, that also requires some time for the body to heal. It’s not going to happen in an instant. Although there are rare occasions in which, as I was expressing earlier, that a person can actually in a moment change something dramatically but that is very unusual. It doesn’t happen often. And for the most part, how the body functions is, if you break a bone it’s going to require some time for that bone to actually knit back together, to heal. Because what’s happening is, your body is producing new cells.
Now; the more you alter your behavior, the faster the body will regenerate those new cells and create that healing and dissipate the discomfort or the pain. The longer you continue to move in the direction of not changing your behavior, the longer it will incorporate in that healing process. Therefore it’s a matter of looking at that.
Now; you only have had that information for one day. Don’t expect (chuckles) that you’re going to change that entirely immediately. But you likely can do it relatively quickly, now that you have that information. As I’ve expressed many, many, many times, you can’t change what you don’t know. You can’t change what you don’t see. But once you see something and once you know something, then you have the choice objectively to do something different and make a different choice, and therefore alter what it is that you don’t like.
MARK: So habitual behavior change is a choice?
ELIAS: Yes, it is. Habitual behavior is a choice. Therefore yes, both. It’s a choice to have a habitual behavior. It’s a choice to change that.
MARK: And with self-awareness, you can see the harmful behaviors?
ELIAS: Yes. And also beyond that, the more self-aware you become and the more you are making intentional choices, you can move in the direction of that foresight. What that means is that when you make a choice, you might not see everything about the outcome but you begin to see different possibilities. You begin to see different probabilities. You begin to see that if I generate this choice, it’s leading me in this direction and I can see some of the results of what this choice is going to yield. If I make a different choice, I can see that avenue and what’s like going to come about because I’m making that choice.
Therefore the more you DO that, the more you build that foresight, the more you’re actually exercising your awareness in a capacity in which you can see what’s likely going to happen because of the choice that you’re making.
ANN: Can I interject with a simple example? And (inaudible) was foresight or an impression or intuition or just I made it happen. So we were at this hotel, and I carry a little thing of keys in my backpack, and I thought we were going to be walking around and I thought they’re kind of heavy. And I thought no, I don’t want to carry these around. And I was taking them out, because we’re in a hotel, I’m like oh, will I forget these? Will I forget these keys? And then I said – and I kind of had like an image that I forgot them, but then I said okay, I’m going to be intentional. I’m going to put them some place that I’m not going to forget them, right? Then we went out (inaudible). Well, guess what I did? I left the keys at the hotel. So was that either foresight or was that me thinking I was going to do it, so I kind of set myself up to do it? Or…
ELIAS: No. That was an impression that you didn’t follow. That was an impression that you ignored. You had the impression, “I’m going to forget,” and you didn’t listen to that.
ANN: So my question then would be, why could I not…? Okay, I had the impression that I was going to forget them, but I did listen to the extent that I was putting them some place—
ELIAS: No. No. No.
ANN: So I just should have just put them back in my purse and not done anything. Interesting.
ANN: So when you have an impression, you can’t change the impression?
ELIAS: No. When you move in a direction of having an impression about something and then you attempt to talk your way around it in your head—
ANN: That’s what I was doing.
ELIAS: Then you’re going to present the validation of your impression. Yes.
ANN: I’ve been doing that a lot lately. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Most people do that a lot throughout their lives. They have an impression about something. Generally it’s a thought, sometimes it’s a feeling. And in that, they know that. They don’t pay attention to it and because they don’t pay attention to it, then they make that thing happen that they had the impression about. That is your method of validating yourself. What you do with that generally is discount yourself, but actually it is validating you that you were correct to begin with.
Actually, I will say again, this was the exercise that I gave the original group for a week, to pay attention to all the ideas that they had about anything during the week that they didn’t listen to, and then how did that validate them in relation to what their impression was. Which taught them how to listen to their impression and trust it. Because if you do trust it, generally you don’t see the validation of it because you avoided that.
YVONNE: So is this the same action? Like what I am recognizing now that I do a lot is like okay, I might be, let’s say just a simple example, I’m doing the dishes and it’s like oh, it would be good for me to water the plants today or now. And then I discount that and go back to my desk and do work, and oh I have work to do, whatever. And then I’m thinking about watering plants and I discount it. And eventually I do do it, and so it’s not like the plants died. But is this the same sort of action? I’m recognizing now how that’s discounting and I’m experimenting now, just like taking care of stuff and moving more in that direction of like—
YVONNE: — immediately. But is this the same sort of… ?
ELIAS: Yes. And in that, you may be listening to it knowing that if you don’t pay attention, that that will be a result, that the plants will die. But what I will say is that with that type of impression, when you don’t follow it, you’re making them ill. Because you’re not being consistent and then the plants don’t know when to expect to be cared for. I’m expressing this in human terms. Plants don’t think and therefore they don’t express in that manner precisely, but they do express in that manner somewhat because they do respond, and they are aware of their own environment. Contrary to what people think, they actually are aware of their environment and they are aware when they are a potted plant, that they are in an unnatural setting or environment and that they are dependent on you as humans to care for them. They are aware of all of that.
ANN: So can I go back? I just want to get this understood. So with the… about creating. Okay, I want to create what I want, right? So I have this impression I’m going to lose my keys, but I don’t want to carry a heavy bag. So because I have this impression I was going to do it, then I just… And I, I – believe me, I know following your impressions is a good thing. It’s been official. But how does that tie into well no, I want to carry something lighter and my impression is telling me not to do it? How then can I intentionally say okay, I had this impression, like with my keys, but I don’t want to carry the keys? How do we do that? I mean, how…? What’s my question? My question is, how can I, cannot change, change what’s going to happen?
ELIAS: Stop thinking in either-or. There are more choices.
YVONNE: Leave them in the car.
KAREN: Dig out a book.
MARK: Did you say you validate all those impressions, when you don’t listen to them?
ANN: I usually know when I don’t listen to an impression.
ELIAS: When you don’t listen to it, you’re going to validate it.
MARK: Here’s something funny to me, maybe not to you. So I told John and I told you that I was thinking about going camping.
ANN: Oh yeah, and you had the impression it was going to rain.
MARK: No, I just had this impression. I can’t tell you what it was. You know, I can logically talk my way out, the weather and the reasons, and I didn’t do it. I listened (inaudible) validate this or not. I listened to the impression, even though I don’t know why I had this impression. So I come here, I’m not camping, I’m staying in a nice, cushy hotel and I woke up this morning and it was pouring like you can’t even believe. (Laughs) And I’m thinking about calling these guys because they’re camping, and saying come over and get out of the rain. I felt bad, actually – a little bit. (Group laughter) It was funny. Very happy for myself. So, would you validate that for me?
MARK: I do know that, but it’s kind of—
ANN: But it’s funny!
MARK: It is a funny thing, eh?
ANN: It’s funny because you’re like (inaudible) they suffer! (Group laughter)
MARK: It’s terrible.
ANN: It’s not terrible.
MARK: It is terrible.
ANN: No, it’s not. It’s funny.
MARK: You’re so funny.
ANN: You’re so funny. (Group laughter and Elias laughs)
MARK: That’s great.
VERONIA: How can you differentiate from the many thoughts that you have?
MARK: No, you’re not kidding there, honey.
VERONICA: And a valid impression. I mean, there’s so much that goes on.
MARK: That comes with the self-awareness, doesn’t it?
ELIAS: Mm, not entirely. (Group chatter) Not entirely. As I expressed, this was an exercise that I used for the initial group and it did teach them to pay attention and to follow those impressions. Impressions are not the same as your chattering brain.
MARK: Don’t they have more intensity behind them energetically?
ELIAS: Not always. But they are very specific. And in that, generally speaking impressions seem to be random. They are not. But they seem to be something as you would express that comes out of nowhere. You have a thought or a feeling about something that isn’t related to anything that you’re doing or that you’re not engaged with anything and this thought or this feeling that you translate into a thought appears and it seems strange, because it doesn’t seem to fit with whatever it is that you’re doing. It’s not simple chatter. It’s—
ELIAS: — and it’s not generally about whatever it is that you’re doing in the moment. It will seem somewhat out of place. And sometimes it will be confusing because it will be information, sometimes, that you don’t even know. Therefore it might be about something that you don’t know anything about. I would say an example, in the beginning of our interactions as a group we played a game and the participants in the conversations in the group very much liked playing this game, and they would choose entries for the game every week. The one rule about the game was that you were not allowed to guess, because the game was also another exercise in listening to impressions. Therefore we had many categories and in that, it was wide open. There was room for everything and you could be very abstract in your entries. But if it was a guess, it would not be accepted. And I knew (group laughter) whether the person was guessing or whether they actually had an impression.
VERONICA: I know. I tried reading and I said what? What? How are they connected?
ELIAS: Now; at one point, Lawrence during the week before one of our group interactions had an impression about an insect, but Lawrence had never encountered this insect and didn’t know what it was. This was a praying mantis insect, but Lawrence had never heard of this insect and had never seen one and didn’t know of its existence. But the word came and Lawrence expressed it as an entry to the game, and it obviously was accepted. In that, the other individuals in the group were all aware of what praying mantis was, but Lawrence had no idea objectively what this was. But that was an excellent example of impressions.
A random word appearing to her and in that, knowing that it was some type of insect, although she didn’t know that it was an insect or what it was. In that, that would be an excellent example of an impression that was correct.
I would say another example of an impression that wasn’t followed was Michael, in one of our group interactions, confessed to the group that Michael had had an impression about monies to be paid for rent, and that the money was left in cash in a particular spot in Michael’s home, and had the impression that one of the dogs was going to eat it (group laughter) and did not go home and did not check on the status of the money. And when Michael arrived at home, the money was all ripped to shreds by the dog and some of it was eaten. So that would be an example—
MARK: Good or bad, you get a validation.
ELIAS: That would be an example of validating when you don’t pay attention.
VERONICA: So you’d have to be there and—
ELIAS: And generally what will happen with an impression is you will say to yourself when you have the validation, when you don’t follow it, you will say to yourself, “I knew that was going to happen. I knew that idea and I didn’t pay attention to it.”
VERONICA: So therefore, self-awareness…
ELIAS: Is excellent. But that’s what you’re doing in this shift. You’re gaining information to encourage yourselves to pay attention to yourselves and to be becoming more self-aware and therefore being able to live intentionally. Which is what you want. You want to move in a direction in which you can create what you want and do what you want and be what you want, and have your wants in harmony with your desire.
MARK: Wouldn’t that be nice?
BEN: So was it our desire to have the group size be this small? Is there any significance to the group size, other than a collective choice and we all just chose it to be intimate, or…?
MARK: Yeah, this is pretty strange, this one. Without a doubt, it‘s very tight.
ELIAS: It is the choice of the participants, in how it will be configured. Collectively you choose in relation to how you will express a particular interaction.
MARK: So this is all part of our interconnection?
ELIAS: It is.
MARK: Big time.
ELIAS: Everything is—
MARK: Our conversations.
ELIAS: Everything is—
MARK: All sides of this.
ELIAS: — a part of interconnection.
MARK: All of it. That’s wild.
VERONICA: The connection with the plants. That was wonderful. I really enjoyed that so much. (Elias laughs)
MARK: (Inaudible) another question.
MARK: (Inaudible) Why is it seemingly so hard, even though you realize that you’re physically doing damage to your own body, you carry on (inaudible) or anybody that you care about? So you were talking to Christine about… Why is that so hard and how does responsibility play into that?
ELIAS: Why is what so hard?
MARK: The other subject, what she was talking about. You were saying about not being concerned, worrying about somebody that you care about, somebody that you love.
ELIAS: Because you’re taught—
MARK: So that’s conditioning.
ELIAS: — from infancy that this is an expression of love. It isn’t.
MARK: It isn’t. You’re actually hurting yourself and you’re hurting the other person. But it’s seemingly, it seems again, so that’s a taught behavior, that’s a taught condition? That you take on this false responsibility. Is that what it is?
ELIAS: Personal responsibility. Which, what is personal responsibility? It is being personally responsible for something or someone else, not for yourself.
MARK: Why is that? Again, is that just individual perception? Why does that seem to be so much more difficult, to stop doing that behavior?
ELIAS: Because you equate it with love.
ANN: You think if you stop doing it, you won’t love them.
ELIAS: No, it’s not. But that’s what your perception is.
MARK: You think you’re actually helping the person when in fact you’re not? Or it’s your conditioning that you have been brought up to believe that this is your job?
ANN: That’s kind of a control thing too, I think.
MARK: Well, I mean don’t a lot of parents express that? Or they don’t have to be parents. They could be siblings, they could be friends, they could be… I mean, I would think that that’s a common—
ELIAS: It is.
MARK: — thread in our reality in…
ELIAS: In your society.
MARK: In our society and our culture.
ELIAS: Not in every society.
MARK: No, no. I get that.
VERONICA: It’s your role as a mother, to worry about your kids.
MARK: Yeah, yeah. So I think (to Veronica) this is applicable to you, too. (Inaudible) Absolutely. Not just me. It means everybody, in one way or… I’ve got to believe that everybody has some kind of experience with that.
ANN: Yeah. And then you have to make a choice. I mean not have to, but then you can make a choice—
VERONICA: Once you’re aware.
ANN: — to start thinking of it differently.
MARK: But the whole point was, is that you have to be aware of.
ELIAS: Yes, why is it so difficult, yes. But the reason that it’s so difficult, very simply, is because you equate it with love and you equate love as being good.
MARK: So the answer then, or the fix as we call it, is to realize that, be aware of it, and—
ELIAS: The answer is to—
MARK: Modify the behavior?
ELIAS: The answer, yes, to modify the behavior by paying attention to YOU.
YVONNE: So once we all get to the point collectively where we’re self-aware and noticing what we’re all doing, I’m curious, like what people will want to work on next. Because there’s always more, right? I’m just… Out of curiosity.
ELIAS: They won’t necessarily want to work on something, but rather be able to DO what they want to do, live how they want to live, express themselves how they want to express themselves. That’s what I was expressing in relation to your wants moving into harmony with your desire.
One more question.
BEN: Could I ask one?
ELIAS: You certainly may.
BEN: You may have addressed this before, but I’ve only listened to some audios and read some transcripts so forgive me if this is something you have discussed. I was reading an old session and you said that – in the topic of probable realities—
MARK: You said it’s not as if all of these realities exist already, you know – because there is no time really – and that you’re just looking at the smorgasbord of realities out there and choosing one in any given moment. You said that’s not the mental model to use to look at it, and I’m wondering what is the correct mental model to conceptualize the fact that many versions of Ben do exist, and I assume that some of them are non-physical, some of them are physical manifestations of me in this life, and for the one that I’m experiencing right now, from my point of view, how can I picture that in a diagram (laughs) so to speak? I don’t have a good… That’s one of the things, after reading the Seth material, that I still can’t really conceptualize in a picture somehow.
ELIAS: Very well. That is the many views of you. There are the yous of you that are other lifetimes, other focuses of you that are expressed in this dimension, in other dimensions. These are all other lifetimes of you. They are outside of time, all occurring at the same time. They are all simultaneous. Probable selves are different. Probable selves are created with a probable reality in moments that you make life choices. Whenever you make a life choice, you split yourself into other yous that are probable yous that you create probable realities with also. It automatically happens. This is the reason that there are endless, countless probable realities, because everyone does this.
BEN: But if time is not really linear, then these probable choices have already quote-unquote “been made” and these probable versions of me and everyone else already quote-unquote—
BEN: — “pre-exists,” so to speak.
ELIAS: They don’t pre-exist. They exist at the same time.
MARK: There is no pre or past.
ELIAS: Out of time, everything exists together, all at the same time. In time, you create a probable reality or endless probable realities whenever you make a life choice: when you go to school, when you go to college, when you get married, when you get divorced, when you engage a significant relationship, when you have a particular career, when you change that career, whenever you do something that changes the course of your life. When you make those choices, you create probable selves and probable realities, which will all then choose all the different choices that you didn’t choose. You’re choosing to insert one reality, and you live one reality. And these probable selves are experiencing and living all of the other choices that you didn’t make, and are moving in all the directions that you aren’t making.
In this, it is all simultaneous. It is all at the same time. Therefore it’s not that it pre-exists. You do live and exist in linear time. That’s very real. Therefore I can say and you can say that without time, this is this. But there is time, because you live in a reality with time because ALL, all physical realities have some version of time. They may not have your version of time, but they have some version of time because time is an integral factor for matter. You cannot have a physical reality without time because time is one of the components that creates actual, physical reality. It creates time. It creates matter.
And time, in a manner of speaking, creates itself in its movement. You in any particular reality choose a certain type of time, and then it creates itself.
YVONNE: It creates more of what it pays attention to?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, although it doesn’t have attention, but it does create itself perpetually. And that’s the reason that it also seems to change. You all think that it’s simply an illusion that time seems to move faster at times and at times it seems to move slower. That’s a combination of perception and (chuckles) time itself. Time is perpetuating itself, but it also creates itself, in addition to how you individually create it through perception.
But in that, given that you are in a physical reality and you are creating a particular configuration of time, it doesn’t exist futurely. Meaning that even though everything is happening at once, in consciousness it’s all happening at once. In your reality, it’s not. In your reality, you are creating a linear expression and configuration of time.
Therefore in that, whenever you make certain choices you create countless other parallel realities that are probable realities.
BEN: But only the major choices. Like if I choose something different for breakfast, I’m not creating a different probable reality?
ELIAS: Correct. No. You’re not creating a probable reality and a probable self in those mundane choices, only in relation to life changes. When your life turns and you engage a different course, then yes, then you are creating those probable selves.
BEN: And from the point of view of this reality and experiencing a time reality, from that point of view, these other probable selves exist in consciousness, in quote-unquote “future” … It’s hard to (laughs) say but… And I might, in any given major decision, I’m going to line up with one of them and make that my physical experience. For any given decision. Let’s say there’s a fork in the road and there’s two different probable realities. I’m going to line up with one of them. I’m thinking of, for example, you know Seth told Rob that the paintings you haven’t painted yet are there in consciousness. They exist. You just haven’t painted them yet and put a physical stamp onto the consciousness, so to speak. So is that kind of a way of looking at it?
ELIAS: Yes. Because all of the choices already exist within you.
ELIAS: Therefore everything that you want to or don’t want to or will or won’t choose, and everything that you want or don’t want as manifestations and directions, yes, it already all exists within you. And in that, then it’s a matter of your choices, but that doesn’t mean that everything is pre-ordained—
BEN: Predestined. Right.
ELIAS: — in a manner of speaking. Yes you possess every possibility, but that doesn’t mean it’s manifest.
BEN: Right. It’s a Choose Your Own Adventure book.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
MARK: So which one of all these bastards gets the best life? (Group laughter)
ELIAS: That’s also a matter of perception. (Group laughter)
MARK: I can’t deal with this one.
ELIAS: Change it.
ANN: (Inaudible) outside of time?
ANN: Okay, so if you need time to have any physical manifestation, which I will take your word for…
ELIAS: But you don’t need it to be essence.
ANN: So what does it…? What is it then, outside of time? What am I outside of time?
ANN: And when I’m outside of time as essence, I’m everything.
ANN: I’m you.
MARK: So when I stepped out of time with the dog, was I essence?
ANN: You went into a different time.
ELIAS: You can’t not be essence.
MARK: Yeah, yeah. (Group laughter and chatter)
ANN: So outside of time, is there experiences? Outside of time?
ANN: It’s just you need time for a physical manifestation.
MARK: So I’m all those other probable selves.
ANN: But outside… I’m very curious about outside of time, what’s going on. (Group laughter and chatter)
BEN: Sometimes your dreams are showing you.
ANN: No! Dream is time. (Group chatter) Do you know your dreams are part of time?
VERONICA: But is it still a probable Veronica continuing to live?
ELIAS: That’s very, that’s very possible. Yes. And I would say yes, that there would be.
ANN: So your dream state still incorporates time. You told me that once.
ANN: See? So—
ELIAS: It’s different—
ANN: So we can reconfigure. I tried that. (Group chatter)
ELIAS: It IS different. (Group chatter)
ANN: It’s a different type of time.
ELIAS: Yes. But a different configuration of time.
BEN: That gives you a little bit of a preview of what a non-standard human time is like.
ERIC: So with a final focus, does that mean they just chose not to play in this physical plane any more, but there’s still essence beyond that?
ELIAS: There’s always essence. But a final focus in merely a designation of position.
ANN: Okay. Is there anything besides essence outside of time?
ANN: And consciousness and essence are different?
ELIAS: Essence is an aspect of consciousness, but not the entirety.
ANN: So what does consciousness include that essence does not? (Group chatter and laughter)
ELIAS: It’s the opposite. It’s the, the question is actually the opposite. What does essence express that consciousness does not? Which would be personality.
ANN: So consciousness does not express personality?
ELIAS: Consciousness is not a thing. It’s an action.
ANN: It’s an action.
YVONNE: But essence is also an action.
ELIAS: It is, but it’s also a thing.
ANN: Oh, essence is a thing! And consciousness is not.
BEN: It’s a wave and a particle. (Group chatter and laughter, and Elias laughs)
VERONICA: Is that related to photonic energy?
MARK: I still think I’m the dog, so (laughs).
VERONICA: I read about photonic energy, just the name of it. Where exists photonic energy?
VERONICA: Okay. Can we include that in our inner landscape?
ELIAS: You could, if you chose.
CHRISTINA: Would it help?
ELIAS: It can, if that’s part of your intention.
VERONICA: Does it look like a bowl of noodles? (Group laughter and chatter)
ELIAS: Very well. I shall leave you with that to ponder.
MARK: Yeah, thanks for that.
ANN: Knowing that we really can’t comprehend it. (Elias chuckles)
VERONICA: We’re just getting started.
ELIAS: There is a lot (chuckles) you can’t comprehend yet. (Chuckles) (Group chatter and laughter) That would be the key.
GROUP: Thank you, Elias.
ELIAS: You are very welcome. I shall greatly be looking forward to our next meeting, and I express tremendous love to all of you. In dear friendship, au revoir.
GROUP: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour and 27 minutes. Total session time was 2 hours and 7 minutes)
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