The Intersection of Individual Reality and the Mass Expression
“The Right and Wrong Determination of the Masses”
“Lobbyists, Evangelicals and Physicians”
“Notice and Choose”
“Death is a Belief”
“Varginha Alien Sighting”
“Diminishing Aggression in My Reality”
Monday, May 1, 2023 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Ann (Vivette)
ELIAS: Good morning!
ANN: Good morning Elias.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And what have you been accomplishing?
ANN: Hm. What have I been accomplishing? (Laughs) I have no clue. (Both laugh) Uh… I’ve just been accomplishing exploring my curiosity. (Elias laughs) And—
ELIAS: What have you been accomplishing in relation to what we discussed in our previous conversation? Because that was going to be part of your exploration, was it not?
ANN: Oh my god. You know more than I did, or not. I might have explored it. I don’t know! I mean (inaudible) because I am… I’ve been really thinking about… What I’m very curious about now is what we are creating and what is true, what is accurate, what is real, understanding all of that. And I have some questions that… I have some questions—
ELIAS: Very well. Have you been exploring with that?
ANN: I think I’ve been maybe thinking about it more.
ELIAS: Very well.
ANN: I had a conversation with Mary that kind of explored it, but… Okay, so first of all, I want to wonder… Okay, I want to go back to my questions that we did talk about last time, when I asked you oh, if I were compassionate, completely compassionate and understanding, and what in the world that I live in or that I’m creating, would not be totally compassionate or whatever. And I think you said, “Not necessarily.”
ANN: And then later on in our conversation, you had said something about… Well, you had said something and then you said, referring back to this conversation – I can’t remember the words you said, but I do remember thinking oh, so I may think I may be being compassionate or being accepting but I still may be projecting an energy that is not. So that’s why I would not be creating this, reflecting back to me this totally compassionate world?
ANN: And what’s the other part?
ELIAS: That would be one reason. That would be one reason. But I would say that even if you WERE being compassionate and accepting, that that doesn’t necessarily mean that your entire world would be expressing that also, and reflecting that to you in that manner. Which that wouldn’t necessarily be a reflection, that would be a mirror.
ANN: Right. And the world—
ANN: — is not a mirror, it’s a reflection.
ELIAS: Correct. And in that, other people are expressing in their own capacity and what they’re exploring, and you might present other people to yourself that are NOT being compassionate and not being accepting in order for you to look at that and for you to make choices in relation to how you would respond to that, and whether that would affect you in a capacity that would alter YOU being compassionate and accepting or not. Therefore, it’s not this precisely but in your terms you could express that, in a manner of speaking, you might present other people in very different expressions to yourself as a test.
ANN: Hm. Hm. So what would be my power then in creating— I know it’s a choice. Okay, so the power in creating the world in which I want to create is choice, so I present maybe someone who isn’t compassionate to… and then I bring into my awareness the choices that I do have, how I want to respond, and I can choose compassion. I can choose hatred. I could choose anything.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct.
ANN: And by my choices, that continues to create. Okay, so this actually kind of leads me… I was listening to the session with Phil and Debbie, and I got very curious about this, when you were talking about—oh, first, I thought that was great about the whole man and the identity with the land and dah-dah-dah. And then you were talking about right and wrong, and you know, somebody might think they’re right where I’m thinking they’re wrong. I love this whole thing. But then… But then the thing that I wanted to question you about was when you said what makes something – and I, correct me if I’m saying your words wrong, but what makes something right or wrong, what determines what’s right or wrong are the masses. Is that right? Is that what you said?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANN: Okay. So that started me—
ELIAS: In your reality. In your reality.
ANN: In our reality? What determines something right or wrong is the masses?
ELIAS: Correct. But in a particular area.
ANN: In a particular area. So I kind of feel like we all kind of know this, which is why we’re all… And you know, you have also helped us realize or helped me realize, which is also why convincing doesn’t work and wanting to be right doesn’t work, but there such that innate draw to wanting to convince the masses or wanting to convince everyone around you of what you believe to be true, because it seems like somehow we know that innately okay, if we get enough people to believe it, then it will be true in my reality.
So there seems to be like this, and especially now with everybody being as polarized as they are, it seems to be this huge draw to convince other people or to show other people or to have other people understand you, and this is why this is right thing to do. We’re all trying to jockey for our airtime with the masses to get everybody to… I mean, I’m being very general and I know, I’m understanding that it doesn’t work.
So my question to you is, then how IS our, besides being our example, is being our example our ONLY influence on the masses? It’s just very… I don’t know what my question is, but it’s very interesting to me that the way we create something in our reality to become true or right in our reality is the masses determine it, but yet trying to convince the masses of what is right and wrong is a trap.
ELIAS: That would be correct, but not entirely.
ANN: Okay. So how do we go about it?
ELIAS: I would say (inaudible) have examples of this in many directions. I would say that a very obvious example would be lobbyists or would be evangelicals or would be physicians. Think about your pandemic and your CDC (see Note 1), and in that, them moving in directions to convince the masses of certain ideas.
ANN: And they did convince them.
ELIAS: And they did. And therefore what I’m saying to you is that it’s not always a futile endeavor, because the few or even the one CAN at times convince the masses. It depends on what they do and how they do it. I would say that there have been evangelicals that one individual can be convincing masses of individuals about what they believe is right and they are successful. And—
ELIAS: And I would say remember the tent evangelicals in the 19th century and the early 20th century, who would travel from town to town and be expressing their fire and brimstone. And in that, they very frequently did convince entire communities of people in relation to what they believed.
ANN: Well then it seems that if you want to create the reality that you want to create, and if the masses determine what’s right, then it seems like you would want to go around preaching and convincing people to think the way you think. But that seems like it wouldn’t be helpful. (Laughs) I mean, that seems to me… I mean, why would we all go do that then?
ELIAS: The world—
ANN: We are using it and it’s leading to the division, I guess. That’s what I’m… We do that all the time, and it leads to division. Well, not all the time, but right now, currently it seems to be leading to a lot of division.
ELIAS: And it does lead to division because it creates an expression of absoluteness.
ANN: All right. So it’s the absoluteness. Which is where I started—
ELIAS: And in that, when anyone moves in a direction of absolute right and wrong, it IS going to create division and more separation because then it emphasizes the differences with people that don’t agree.
And that can lead in directions that can actually generate significant conflict.
ANN: Yeah. Okay. So for myself, I’m thinking I almost have come to the point… You know, to create the reality I want to create, which actually when you said what I’ve been accomplishing, I have been noticing some things. It’s weird. It’s like I have these things that I want or I desire, and I’m not necessarily taking objective steps to… I am actually, I take that back. I am taking objective steps, but it’s not necessarily to achieve these things at all. So I’m like, oh my god! I wanted that. And look at this! This is something that comes up (inaudible), or I wanted that. Oh look at this! And this stuff is just like popping up all over my reality. I’m like, this is kind of cool. (Elias laughs)
So I think, as far as I’m accomplishing, I am being more aware of… of… like the magic that’s happening, that it’s… You know. It’s… I just have to almost desire something and just go live a good life, and the desires – and what I mean by living a good life is just like being as content as I can or happy as I can, or just not fretting or stressing and just enjoying my life. Oh, that’s what I mean by living a good life, just enjoying my life. Like you have desires, and then just go, enjoy your life. And then the desires—
ELIAS: Precisely, I would say. Because in that, what you’re doing is living that principle in relation to what you want. You’re living the principle of you always create more of what you’re paying attention to.
ANN: Oh, yes.
ELIAS: But you’re doing it in relation to what you want, rather than doing it in relation to what you don’t want.
ANN: Okay. So I guess, for my personal self, and I’m thinking… Okay, as long as I start keeping, going in the direction of putting my concentration and focus on things that I want and things that I enjoy… But what about this…? But then the… See it’s this whole thing about the masses that keeps messing me up in my head anyway. And I think the reason it doesn’t mess me up living every day is because I don’t think too much about it. But then I’ll hear a session and—
ANN: And you’ll talk about the masses or something, and it’s not messing me up as much in my life, my life up, it’s messing me up as just coming to an understanding how all this creating your reality works. So when I just live my life, going in the direction of what I want, concentrating on what I want, focusing on what I want, enjoying myself, paying attention – because I am also aware of things that I might have discarded before, might have just brushed aside before, and now I’m like oh! That might be some energy that I’m giving out, like the little fishes analogy or like energy I’m giving out, that when something happens, it might be real but it might not be true. I’m just trying to think about this.
Like the other day I was listening to something and I noticed myself. I was becoming jealous. And there was one thing that I might have said: well, I’m not a jealous person, or just saying no, jealousy is not a good emotion, just brush it away. Just brush it away. It’s not a good emotion. But then I thought oh my god, no. I’m jealous! I’m jealous. I acknowledge I am jealous and… But then the power, which you said, have said before, it’s like… I’m like oh yeah! I’m jealous. Do I want to be jealous? No. That’s not what I want to be, but I am. I am jealous. And then all of a sudden it dissipated and then it becomes insignificant almost after that. And that’s where the acknowledgment comes in, the acceptance of what is comes in, and then the choice comes in.
ELIAS: Precisely. Because—
ANN: Okay, but—
ELIAS: Because you might not like something that you’re expressing, but the first point IS to not fight with it. And then after that, it’s a matter of recognizing that you have choice and that you can’t choose something different if you don’t know what you’re doing. Therefore if you know that you’re being jealous and you don’t like it and you don’t want to do that, you can choose to do something different.
ANN: Yes. So as far as with myself doing stuff like that, I mean obviously I’m not 100% aware of what I do all the time, but I feel confident enough that I have skills. I mean, it’s growing and I feel pretty comfortable with my abilities and my choices and my awareness, like with myself, in what I call my own little world. And I don’t know if this is an intermediate thing or if this is just whatever, but like with my world that’s interacting and affecting me, I’m getting better and better every day at creating what I want.
But then you bring it out to the masses and lI wonder. Let’s just say what’s important to me, clean planet, clean air, or, or I don’t like war or I don’t… You know, obviously I don’t like control. I don’t like it when people control other people and… Oh! Or I think about like our banking system or I think about our governments and… Like right now, if I read something about Ukraine and Russia, let’s say, I’m kind of at the point like I feel what comes up, I have this feeling like all right, we’re all in this playground. Those are these bullies over there, which I don’t like. I’d like to break them up, but they keep doing it. And I’m like okay, all right, if that’s what they want to do, let them do it. I’m just so done with it. I feel like I’m just done with it. I don’t even care. You guys could blow up the world. And then I even think blow up the world, okay. You blow up the world, I die. I die. It’s just to give energy to that, I feel like dying would be easier (Laughs) than to keep giving energy to this vacuum of this stuff that I don’t like. But then I—
ANN: But I’m thinking… But then I said, and I’d stop and think okay, but there are things in the world I DO want to change. So I feel like I’m pretty good about getting my personal life, but if I do want a world, I want to live in a world that’s peaceful, I want to live in a whole world that’s compassionate, I want to live in a world that has clean water, that has clean air. I want to live in a world where people don’t poison the soil, where people… I want to live in a world where people don’t put money as your number, like money is more important. Like in our healthcare system, making money is more important than actually having people be well. I mean I see all these systems in our world that I think are so screwed up, and I – well sure, I’d love to change them. And I was kind of at the point thinking oh, the way I can change it is to change it in myself. And then when I change it in myself, I’ll start to see it in the world. But then you pop in this masses thing, and I’m like well how the fuck does that all fit in? So I think—
ELIAS: Ah! Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. But then the only means in which that can alter the direction that you were already moving in is – and it doesn’t alter it, it simply alters it in YOUR reality – is the idea that there is some official reality in addition to the reality that you are creating, and there isn’t.
ANN: Which brings us back to what is true and accurate.
ELIAS: Which brings us back to, which brings us back to you create everything in your reality. Therefore you create your entire reality. Therefore I didn’t say it was not possible for you to create a reality in which your world would be expressing clean air and clean water, and that people would be moving in a direction of being more aware and in your estimation more responsible, let us say, in relation to your earth because that’s what’s important to you. But what I would say in that is that that’s a matter of YOU paying attention to what YOU’RE creating in YOUR reality and moving in a direction of not being concerned with who’s right or who’s wrong, or what other people are doing or what is being expressed by this one or that one, but rather that you are simply paying attention to what you are creating in your reality.
ANN: I got that. I understand—
ELIAS: As long as you continue to be paying attention to YOUR reality and as long as you are moving in a direction of not being distracted away from your reality, the more you do that, the more you actually stop paying attention to all of the actions that you don’t like and you don’t necessarily agree with. And in that, you used the example of the war in Ukraine.
Now; in that, I would say quite literally that a person that is not paying attention to the war in Ukraine may actually stop creating it. And in their reality, that’s not happening any longer.
ANN: Okay. So then how does this put the… So if I do… Then how is it… If I am so powerful that I can stop creating that in my reality, how is it that the masses are choosing what’s right and wrong? Why aren’t I choosing what’s right and wrong?
ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, you are. Because you’re choosing to pay attention to that or to not pay attention to that. And what I would say to you is, for more than 99% of you, almost 100%, not quite but almost, that you’re somewhat in the position of both. That you might be in the direction of paying attention to your own reality and what you’re creating, but you’re also in the direction of some things that you are participating in with the masses of the right and wrong. Such as you choose what you participate in. In everyday life you’re making choices, in not necessarily always in relation to what you agree with, but what you accept in relation to the mass expression of right and wrong. Do you pay insurance?
ELIAS: That is one of those expressions of what the masses determine as right and wrong, and that you make a choice not necessarily based on whether you agree. You might not agree, but you might make the choice to comply anyway because it’s easier.
ELIAS: And in that, it’s easier because you’re also making other choices that are in agreement or in compliance with the masses. Therefore you might be choosing to purchase auto insurance because you choose to drive an automobile.
ELIAS: And it is easier to move in the direction of purchasing auto insurance than it is to not incorporate auto insurance in relation to what the masses have deemed to be right and wrong.
ANN: I agree.
ELIAS: Or there are – and in that, you’re choosing to drive a vehicle. You could be choosing not to drive a vehicle and if you’re not driving a vehicle, then you wouldn’t require insurance for a vehicle. And in that, it wouldn’t be difficult to move in a direction of not complying with what the masses express as right and wrong.
It’s very intertwined and interconnected. It’s not as simply as one choice such as choosing to not be compliant with purchasing or keeping auto insurance. There are many other pieces that are associated with that. That’s the reason that it becomes difficult to not comply.
ANN: Okay. So I understand that and I agree with you, and I do obviously comply with a lot of the mass beliefs, and exactly for the reason you say, because it makes it easier.
ANN: And there’s some things I don’t necessarily comply with, but it’s because I feel comfortable with it. Like I don’t go to a doctor regularly. Most people, you’ve got to get your physical exam. I don’t do it because honestly, it just doesn’t feel good to me and I don’t comply with it because it just… It doesn’t feel bad not to. Like if it felt bad not to comply, I probably would comply, but it feels better not to comply. But—
ELIAS: I understand. But also that’s something that is left to you as a personal choice.
ANN: Ah. Okay. Yes. Yes. Or not saying— Oh! Which is why I really hated it when they wanted to make shots mandatory. I was like, “You’re taking my personal choice away!” and that would have threatened me more. Because that would have been hard—
ELIAS: I understand.
ANN: — not to comply. Which would have been a choice I could have taken, but it would have made it more difficult. Which leads me to, okay, so if I just want to create my life the way I want to create, I think it feels good and it’s been successful, concentrating, like everything you tell us to do. What you concentrate upon is what you manifest. Pay attention to what you want, not what you don’t want. I mean, all of the stuff we’ve been learning works, is working for me. And I’m like oh, this is great.
But I feel like I can… But okay, so then the little hitches. Okay, I feel like I could put my blinders on so to speak, live in my world creating my happy little oasis of my world, but then if I’m not paying attention, out there all of a sudden they may come up with these… the federal currency credit score and they make our credit thing saying, “Oh, you weren’t a good citizen so we are going to deny you access…” – that’s a theory that’s going on out there, or some things that are popping up, “So we’ll deny you access to your money, and we have control of you.” So I’m like okay, can I just live in my world creating what I want and will this out— I know you tell me there’s not one official reality, but by not paying attention to this other stuff, will I allow this to be a part of my reality or something? What I don’t want?
ELIAS: You might not. You might not allow that to be a part of your reality. As I said, there are individuals that are so much not paying attention to the war in Ukraine any longer that it doesn’t exist in their reality. Does that mean that it doesn’t exist at all? Of course not, because it exists in your reality.
ANN: Well even if it didn’t exist in my reality, it would still exist in some reality, right?
ELIAS: It still exists in some PEOPLE’S realities. But that doesn’t mean it exists in yours, and therefore you don’t have to pay attention to it. You don’t have to deal with it. You don’t have to be concerned about it. It doesn’t exist. Therefore I would say that the same can be said about banks and different expressions in relation to that.
Let me say to you that in the time of your time framework of 2008 and all of the expressions that happened and all of the things that happened with the banks and all of the people that lost so much in investments, in houses, in property, in possessions, but then there were people that didn’t lose anything.
ANN: And probably people who became very rich because of it. That happens all the time, when some people are—
ELIAS: And that is because of the differences in what they’re paying attention to.
ANN: Okay. Okay. So just reiterating and driving home that thing of what you’re paying attention to. All right. So I do think I’m definitely getting better and better at that, and paying attention to what I want to. I’m not all 100% there obviously, but I’m getting better.
But I have this one question. And here again – and I know you say there’s no official reality – but okay, something else you said and I can’t remember if I heard it or read it or what session it was, but you said, “Death is a belief and not what you would term to be true.” So I understand death is a belief and okay, so… And it’s real in my reality because I can see someone die and they’re gone, but it’s not true because it all… Consciousness doesn’t die. So wouldn’t that, if it’s not true, there seems to me that there has to be some reality out there that is official. (Laughs) Right?
ELIAS: No. No. No.
ANN: Okay. Okay. Okay.
ELIAS: It’s not about, it’s not about some official reality. It’s about what you’ve been told, what you’ve been taught, what you’ve learned and what you accept as being true and what you don’t.
ANN: Well, wouldn’t death not being true, wouldn’t the fact that we don’t quote-unquote “die” be officially true?
ELIAS: (Pause) No. Because also all of you determine for yourselves what is true and what isn’t true, based on your experience and based on what you observe.
ANN: But once we die in this reality, from what we believe, how we term death…
ELIAS: Once you die—
ANN: None of this matters anymore.
ELIAS: — death is over. Because once you die, then you realize that it isn’t true (chuckles) that you’re gone. And in that, I would say that it’s more a matter of what you believe in relation to your reality. You SEE people stopping or ceasing to exist in the manner that YOU are familiar with, which is what you term to be death. And in that, you don’t have any evidence – although this is not entirely true – of what you believe is something contrary to what you see, that when someone dies, they die. That’s it. There is no coming back. There is no changing that, although that’s not entirely (chuckles) true. You’re moving in directions all the time of pulling people and things back from death.
ELIAS: And in that, you don’t think about that. And once again, as with everything else, you will rationalize it and you will make excuses and you will have your expressions of your explanations for all of that, that it wasn’t actually death or the person wasn’t entirely dead. What is entirely dead? You’re either dead or you’re not dead.
ANN: Right. Well I understand that. I mean, but the fact that you’re… like you don’t die—
ELIAS: And let me also express, and now in your present time framework, amongst you, you have another new necromancer. And they have the ability to pull something back from death.
ELIAS: For it’s not as absolute as you make it to be. But once again, the masses determine that absoluteness. The rightness or the wrongness, that’s what they determine: right or wrong. And what is right in the subject of death is that it’s absolute and it’s permanent and nothing comes back from the dead. That’s not necessarily (chuckles) true. It’s not necessarily correct, but it definitely takes on being very real, because that’s what people accept.
ANN: Right. I understand that. It was just the fact that death, there really is no death, is a truth. That was the part. And I accept, I accept that. I mean I don’t, you know… But just the fact that it was a truth, that seems to be like an absolute, so… And yeah, let’s—
ELIAS: I understand. And even that isn’t an absolute, but I understand what you’re expressing.
ANN: Okay. Well, I would—
ELIAS: And I understand that the reason that something such as that would gain your attention is because it’s something that you perceive as being very contrary to your reality in general.
ANN: Yes. Okay. Contrary to our reality in general. I’m good at this and I’m sure I am… You’re going to be hearing all kinds of beliefs from me, but I just want to talk about this (Elias laughs) because I think this is fun. This is kind of exciting and I’m just curious about some things, because you know I am curious. (Elias laughs)
Okay, so in Varginha, Brazil, back in the 90’s, there was… so many people in the town saw a spaceship crash and three girls actually saw an alien or an E.T. I’m thinking it was probably an E.T. It looks like, you know, when they drew pictures of it, it was like the grey, you know the whole, the typical big head, you know, big red eyes, skinny bodies. And they said that, the girls said that they were telepathically communicating with them and they said it was scared, this one they thought that they knew it was frightened or scared, and they were frightened or scared too, because obviously it’s new. But as much as I want it to be an E.T., I’m thinking it was a grey, which you say is like an other-dimensional focus. So one, I want to know if that is, what that was, or if it was an E.T. And then I’m wondering, is it, if they could speak telepathically to each other because if it is another focus of yours, it seems like it would be easier to speak telepathically?
ELIAS: Correct. That would be correct.
ANN: So they were seeing a… They were seeing other-dimensional focuses of themselves? They weren’t seeing extra-terrestrials, right?
ANN: That’s what I thought. (Elias laughs) Oh! But it was kind of odd, and maybe this is because this is what I’m paying attention to, but if it’s what I’m paying attention to, that means I may start creating it. (Elias laughs) It seems like there’s more and more talk of E.T. and the government is even acknowledging something. They’re not saying what, but something is going on. So I kind of feel this as – and I know you said E.T.’s don’t want to visit us right now because we are a very aggressive species – but I’m like okay, there’s always going to be a reality where there’s aggressive species, but I want to get myself into the reality that they’re not aggressive, so aggressive that the E.T.’s, the E.T.’s feel comfortable coming to visit us.
ELIAS: I would say that you could create that reality.
ANN: But are you going to say now “but it’s not likely”? (Both laugh)
ELIAS: I would say yes. Why? Because you are still creating in your reality war.
ANN: Okay. So am I creating in my reality war and aggression? Because I’m still focused on it? Although I don’t feel like... I’m obviously still focused on it because we’re talking about it, but I don’t feel like I’m that, as focused on it as I was. So—
ELIAS: I agree. I agree. If you—
ANN: Okay, so if I want—
ELIAS: — (inaudible) some interest in it, but you’re still aware of it.
ANN: Okay. So if I want to diminish the aggression in my reality, what is more powerful – or maybe a combination of both – just focusing on… Keep moving in the direction of what I do want to create, and focusing on all the peaceful and compassionate people, and the situations of kindness, and just keep doing that? Or is it also an indication now I’m aggressive in my own life somewhere, that I’m not aware of or I’m putting blinders on or something?
ELIAS: I would say, I would say both. I would say that it’s partially about the “out there” part of your reality, in a manner of speaking, the things that are not immediately, directly in your personal reality such as war, but also in relation to your own expression as you expressed previously in this conversation, about being jealous.
ELIAS: That’s one, one it is an expression of not enough. Something that you don’t have that someone else does or that you have, but you think is threatened because of someone else’s expression.
ELIAS: Which is simply another version of not enough, because you’re not secure enough in what you have that—
ANN: Let me talk to you because I want to go on to something else. I do understand that and I actually… I was good, like when I was jealous I said okay I’m jealous, I don’t want to be, and then I realized oh, what I did have. And I feel like I could really turn that around.
ELIAS: Yes. I agree. I definitely agree.
Now; what I would say is that was simply an example, and that in that, it’s a matter of recognizing that yes, that’s one piece of it. But also, there’s another piece of that that DOES hold a factor of aggression. Because what is aggression?
ANN: Oh my god. Tell me again, because I need to work with this. I mean, I want to work with this. What is aggression? Just… it’s force. It’s forcing yourself on someone else?
ELIAS: No. It is the one expression in your reality that disconnects.
ANN: Okay, so let me ask you. I really want your help with this, because I’ve been noticing – oh my god! And I don’t want to do it. But I have been noticing like this whole dynamic on how with mother lately where I think I might—I think I might… Listen to me, trying to cover my bases and being in denial (laughs) but I think I might be being aggressive towards my mother. (Laughs) And I don’t want to be, but I continually find myself in hindsight being… like she does things and it irritates me, and I dismiss her. I discount her. I tell her her views are wrong. I mean I’m, I don’t say it verbatim like that but my energy, that is what I’m doing and I’m aware of that. I am doing it all the time, because I do think that she’s… It bothers me because she’s always, always looking for the worst in everything and she’s always cutting herself down. And I know that’s because she doesn’t have self-esteem or she doesn’t feel good about herself, and I know it’s also eighty years of habit of her doing this. But I just like… I just… It drives me crazy! Or she won’t make a decision, uh, uh, this or that, or she’ll say mean things. She’ll say unkind, mean things. It’s like she doesn’t have a filter. And I’m always quote-unquote “correcting” her. And I know that’s not a direction I want to go in, and I’m telling her she’s wrong and I’m discounting her. So obviously that is an act of aggression. Would you agree?
ELIAS: I would.
ANN: Okay. So Elias—
ELIAS: And when you don’t want to do something, this is a matter of if you are having significant difficulties in, in a manner of speaking, driving that home to yourself, I would say to you: move in the direction every day of doing the “Who do you want to be today?” exercise.
ANN: All right.
ELIAS: Because if you’re doing that continuously, then you will be more aware in the day, in the moment when you are doing that, of being judgmental with your mother, you’ll catch yourself.
ELIAS: Instead of only being aware of it in hindsight, you’ll catch yourself and you’ll be aware of it in the moment.
ANN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was just about to ask you, because that’s such a… It’s becoming… It wasn’t always like this. It seems like it’s getting worse, this relationship. But I was going to ask you, oh well then how do I interact with her? And the answer is well, how did I say I want to be who I want to be today. And that’s how I interact with her.
ELIAS: Exactly. Exactly. And let me also say something to you. You made a comment that it seems to be getting worse.
ELIAS: Likely the reason that it seems to be getting worse is because she may be expressing in certain directions more.
Now; in that, because she’s expressing in certain directions more, you’re noticing it more. And in that, it, in a manner of speaking, does get worse.
Now; let me say to you, as people age – and this isn’t a rule, but it is very consistent, and I would say that it holds for most people – that as they age, they move in a direction of being less careful about how they express themselves.
ANN: Yeah. 100% in her case.
ELIAS: And therefore in that, they may be expressing themselves in capacities that are more obvious in relation to what you don’t like or you don’t agree with, because they’re less concerned with being polite or less concerned with being careful about what they say or who they say it to or when they say it. And in that, I would say that it’s something that also has to do with how you engage.
Now; this is another piece of what we’ve been discussing, about what the masses determine as right or wrong. And in YOUR culture, in YOUR society, the masses determine that there are certain expressions and certain behaviors that are acceptable, and certain behaviors that are not acceptable, regardless of age.
(The timer for the end of the session rings)
ELIAS: In other cultures, in SOME cultures, as people age the masses, the culture, acknowledges them as being more revered and therefore the older someone becomes, the more they are viewed as someone to be very much paid attention to, someone to be listened to, someone to be respected. In YOUR culture, it’s almost the opposite.
ANN: It is.
ELIAS: The older someone becomes, the more you DON’T pay attention to them AND the less you respect them. Therefore in these other cultures, the older an individual becomes, it holds the same, that they may be less concerned with how they are expressing themselves and they may be expressing themselves more and more genuinely, and not as concerned with what that does or whether it’s polite or not, or whether it’s appropriate or not.
Now; understand: because people in these other cultures DO express such a respect of people as they become older and older, the person that is becoming older, they may express themselves more freely but they’re also responsible to themself and therefore they’re not going to be expressing themselves in a manner that is let’s say hurtful or destructive to other people. But in this, I would say in your culture people move in a direction as they become older in not caring what they say or how they say it because they know that people are not necessarily respecting them more as they age, and therefore they don’t care and they’re not necessarily being responsible to themselves.
Regardless of the culture, this is something that as an individual ages, you all for the most part move in this direction, because you are all moving in a direction of learning that many of the constructs that you’ve held throughout your lives are not necessarily so absolute, and that you don’t necessarily agree with them.
ANN: Well, my mother seems to be the opposite. She seems to be hanging onto those constructs hugely, like “Oh, this person needs to be going to school,” “This person shouldn’t be wearing this,” “This person shouldn’t—
ELIAS: That’s not what I was saying. That’s not what I was saying. What I was saying was letting go of some of the constructs that keep them quiet when they are younger.
ANN: Quiet. Okay. I got it, yeah. And I would also venture to say that cultures that respect their elders, you would probably find more quote-unquote “wisdom” coming from those elders, right?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes.
ANN: Like the Indian cultures, I can see the old wise man, or the oriental cultures where they would have these wise words from your elders, and they probably would act that, because that’s what the culture cultivates.
ELIAS: Yes. But that’s because in that, it’s a matter of recognizing that these people as they age, they may be more inclined to express themselves more and not be as guarded, but in that, the people around them then interpret that as a freedom and they listen to what the older people are expressing because they understand that they are being responsible and in that, whatever they have to say usually has wisdom in it.
ANN: Yeah. Okay. So Elias, the bell went off. We have to go, but thank you. This is very interesting. So these people in your life that are your… Those trying relationships that I was also talking to Mary about, they can be our greatest teachers as well.
ELIAS: They can.
ANN: So I will be doing this “Who do I want to be today?” and actually focusing on… It’ll be interesting, because I bet it will change my mother too. If I want to be respecting today, I bet my mother will act very differently.
ELIAS: I would agree. I would agree.
ELIAS: And I will be offering my energy to you in tremendous support and encouraging you in these directions, especially because I know that this is important to you my friend.
ANN: Yes. Thank you.
ELIAS: You are—
ANN: And before you go, I just want to say, I just want to say for the record that I am doing some pretty cool stuff (Elias laughs) and I don’t know why Elias, like I thought the other day, I’m like why don’t I keep talking to Elias about all this cool stuff I’m doing? When I’ve got… I don’t know. So I just want to let you know I’m doing cool stuff too.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well.
ANN: I’m telling you that. It’s just I want you to know that.
ELIAS: And I would say that perhaps our next conversation, you’ll share with myself the cool stuff.
ANN: Okay. I shall. All right. I love you.
ELIAS: And I express tremendous love to you, my friend, and great affection as always. In dear friendship and great, great encouragement, until our next conversation—
[Audio ends after 1 hour 6 minutes]
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