The Value of Exercise and a Healthy Diet; Sex Drive and Age
“Time to Readjust Yourself”
“Inner Landscape Exercise”
“Noticing Validating Imagery”
“Regeneration and Super Cells”
“Sex Drive and Age”
Thursday, December 29, 2022 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Brenda (Leonora)
ELIAS: Good morning!
BRENDA: Good morning, Elias.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And what have you been accomplishing?
BRENDA: Ah, goodness. Well, one thing I’ve been accomplishing, my partner Robert got me an Apple watch for my birthday in August and I decided to use it to set some core goals for my body and set goals for active calories, standing movement to get me away from my computer, and exercise goals. And yesterday I completed Day 117 in a row of achieving those.
BRENDA: Yeah, it feels good.
BRENDA: Go ahead.
ELIAS: (Inaudible) And how do you feel—
BRENDA: It feels really good that I can create and set something like that, that was… I think what I realized is that I set something that was achievable and it was like this is something that I really want to commit to every day, but I didn’t put in, you know, that I have to run four miles a day and that kind of goal that can be unrealistic. So I feel really good about it.
BRENDA: Yes. And it’s also helped with me doing what I would say a counterpart for my dog, Caleb, in him getting the exercise and the movement that he needs. And it gave me a broader understanding of what all movement can be, that I think I had a pretty narrow… You know, movement is running on a trail, movement is walking the dog on the road, and (laughs) I’ve discovered that he really likes to move in the playground running and playing, and that there are different avenues for moving the body throughout the day. So that’s been, that’s been insightful.
ELIAS: Congratulations. That is tremendous. That IS an accomplishment.
BRENDA: Yeah, it feels, it feels like… You know, once I did it for a few days, it’s like wow! And Robert’s been encouraging me. There have been (laughs), there have been a few nights when it’s been rainy and to get my movement in, that I’m walking through the house reading a book (laughs) but… and counting those steps and things. But it’s been fun, a fun kind of commitment, not stressful.
ELIAS: That is excellent. And I would say it’s excellent that you’re showing yourself that you can be moving in many different capacities and that it’s still moving.
BRENDA: Right. And it also, it really allowed me to see how I would have long periods when I’m not moving, being in a car and driving for three hours, without stopping to walk Caleb or to get out and move, or sometimes I’m in a meeting and realize it’s two hours in and I’m still sitting, and finding ways to, even for meetings in person, to get up and move or take a break without apology. (Laughs) So it’s been, it’s been good in many ways.
ELIAS: I would say that is excellent, my friend.
BRENDA: Thank you. So I think that’s been an area I’ve been accomplishing. I think since our last session, I think it was probably October, there have been lots of, lots of fun things happening. Linda’s son and wife were here for Thanksgiving, and my son and his wife, Katie, were here for the holidays and just recently left. So a lot of fun things around that. I felt like I had some successes with Robert and his son, in that situation we had talked about, where Robert did have his son stay at his place just for a short while, and he got his apartment and I was able to not be there and to allow myself to choose to stay away, but still able to support him. And that worked out really well. It’s a little new for me to do that, so it’s a little… I guess it’s… I have a little trepidation anticipating what might happen.
BRENDA: But it went well, so I’m learning. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent.
BRENDA: Yeah. Yeah, and so I was, here we are talking a few days before 2022 ends, and so I’ve been a bit more contemplative about what did I accomplish in 2022. Because when we talked early in January last year, I talked about it being continuing recovery and discovery. And I had a little extra time this morning because Mary was running late and I used it to draw a rune about 2023. And it was curious. I wasn’t really surprised. I drew Hagalaz, which is disruption and elemental power.
ELIAS: And what do you think about that?
BRENDA: (Laughs) It’s so funny because earlier in the week, I thought we were going to talk, I was thinking about… I’ve felt unfocused and a little bit scattered, but that there is like this underlying sense of resolve and strength, and that it was probably related to me preparing for change. (Laughs) And so I was thinking about it was going to be a big year of change for me, and so drawing disruption fit that.
ELIAS: I would agree.
BRENDA: And then (both laugh) there is a pretty big disruption coming in January. We had talked about me having the issue with carpal tunnel syndrome in my hands, and I had had that cortisone treatment in my right one and for two months it went away, the numbness, the pain. And then it just came back completely, maybe even a little worse, and the doctor won’t do any more. He just does the one cortisone treatment, and told me that if I had the surgery that it would release that pressure, that… on that band, and that I would have full recovery. And he talked about me doing it in both hands, and that right now I had no muscle damage in either hand. And so I scheduled the two. They call it staged surgery, where they’ll do the surgery on the one hand and then on the other two weeks later. And I was a bit naïve about the time I would be off from work, but I found out yesterday that I’ll be off from work for six weeks.
BRENDA: And I think that six-week period is the part, maybe the catalyst for the disruption in my work life and me sort of resetting what I want to do with myself.
ELIAS: Aha! And in that, you can look at that term “disruption” as perhaps being a positive.
BRENDA: Yes. Absolutely. Yes, I did. I… I do. And it’s easy to think, surgery, I failed to heal the carpel tunnel. Like I thought I was going to heal it myself and instead what I—
ELIAS: But you ARE healing it yourself, even if you engage surgery.
BRENDA: Yes. I think you had said something like that before, and that’s what I realized, that the most important piece for my body is I want to be using my hands. I want to weave, to weave baskets, to make bread, to be able to garden and do all of these things with my hands, and that partnering with this surgeon, I’m going to have full use of my hands again.
BRENDA: And that that, that’s what’s really important.
ELIAS: That is the point. Yes. That is what is the most important piece, and how you do it doesn’t actually matter.
BRENDA: So I think… I see it as positive and I think for my work, what it’s forcing my boss to do, is for that period of time he’s going to have to find someone else to work in the department to do some of my work that has to be done daily or weekly, and that it will make it easier to transition into a four-day week when this whole process happens.
ELIAS: I agree. I would say that that is very efficient of you.
BRENDA: (Laughs) Yes, it is. And it just… Once I decided, the pieces just fell into place. It was easy to get the appointment, get the surgery scheduled, and it’s been pretty much in a flow.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I would say congratulations again.
BRENDA: Yeah. And I think related to this, I had already been working on how I wanted to shift my work to focus, looking at the things I’ve accomplished with the co-op, and really started to see that one of my strengths is implementing new programs and evaluating them and maintaining them, and decided that that was where I really wanted to shift my contribution to the co-op. Would you agree that that’s one of my strengths?
ELIAS: Oh definitely. Yes.
BRENDA: And I’ve been working on three related programs that… That one that we’ve been talking about, wanting to move forward, and well actually we’ve been talking about all of them, and just really need focus time to do some things like that. So my sense is that it’s highly likely that I’ll be able to make that shift.
ELIAS: I would agree. And in that, it’s a matter of you recognizing what is genuinely important and in that, focusing your attention in those directions rather than being bogged down in other directions of obligation.
BRENDA: Yeah, I see that.
ELIAS: Therefore at this point, it is not as much important that there will be that six weeks for your boss to be doing something different and finding someone to replace you in relation to the paperwork, so to speak, but more that it is time for you to readjust yourself and to be genuinely moving yourself in a direction of what is important and what you are gifted in and what your passion is. Rather than simply being slightly removed from what you were doing before and generating less time in doing what you were doing before, but perhaps it is time for you to readjust yourself and move yourself out of what you were doing before, and into what you genuinely express your passion in.
BRENDA: I think I… I definitely understand what you’re saying, and I have… feel like part of that is the gift we talk about, about my ability to focus and to apply my creativity to things that I undertake and explore. And I’ve started with these initiatives that… It takes a tremendous focus and creativity and ability to work with and interrelate multiple systems together, including groups of people, and it’s a level of complication and challenge that I think is really exciting.
ELIAS: I agree. And I would say that this is tremendous, because you are allowing yourself to move in that direction and you’ve given yourself the perfect opportunity.
BRENDA: Yeah, with a big disruption. (Both laugh)
ELIAS: And I would say that disruption may be quite your friend. (Laughs)
BRENDA: Yeah. Yeah, it has been in the past. I think I’ve had other life-changing disruptions (both laugh) so… This one, it’s… It feels like it’s very, very timely. And one thing that I wanted to circle back that’s sort of tangentially related, because you know it’s a food co-op, a lot that we do is related to healthy eating. And I want to… healthy eat and just health, period. I wanted to circle back to my body consciousness and regeneration. And we talked, maybe two sessions ago, I shared with you the imagery I had in the inner landscape that appeared again when I was having the EMG done on my hand, and how cool that was. But we didn’t really talk about the imagery itself and what the inner landscape imagery was showing to me. And I wanted to see if we could talk about that for a bit.
ELIAS: Very well. (Pause) And?
BRENDA: (Laughs) You’re going to make me go first, huh? (Laughs) I knew that. Well, at the… I was recalling just some of the phrases I used to describe it to you, and sort of how I had been playing with it after that. And so some of that is, that stood out, was the crop duster that came in and seeded the ground. It was, you know, the ground area surrounded by a lake and mountains. It was cartoonish, the crop duster was. And the clouds that came in, in a later session, were cartoonish. And so I think that’s a significant piece. And then I had a sense of, in one of them, that the seeds had self-organized into different groupings and different plantings. And those two things (laughs) for some reason made me think that there was something in this related to what you’ve talked to someone else about, super cells. I was thinking about it, like stem cells or cells that knew how to become something and organize into systems in the body. Is that close?
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. (Pause) Continue.
BRENDA: (Laughs) Um…
ELIAS: Let me ask you what you think of as significant in relation to the imagery being cartoonish.
BRENDA: I thought because it was cartoonish it gave me a sense of imagination, of not holding to, so tight to the way I think reality and my body works. That it seemed more… not so much magical, just as something being perceived differently.
ELIAS: I would agree. I would also express that it adds an element of playful and not so serious.
BRENDA: Ah. Yes. (Laughs) Yes.
ELIAS: Or allows you to engage slightly differently, because you’re not moving in that automatic seriousness. It’s quite astounding how one small change in relation to an image can generate an entirely different energy.
BRENDA: Yeah. I definitely felt that. And it also gave it a sense of… Sometimes just observing, it was almost a sense of wonder, that these things were just happening. Nobody was controlling it. You know, there wasn’t a wizard behind the curtains. They were just happening and unfolding. Like the—
ELIAS: Which is the wonder of what you create so naturally. (Pause) It’s not all that complicated. You very naturally move in directions and create in manners that are accomplishing and that are beneficial, and you don’t have to try.
BRENDA: Yeah. Yeah.
ELIAS: All you have to do is allow.
BRENDA: It did, and that allowance seemed really important, that it didn’t require figuring it out. Which I guess was why, when we first talked about it, it was just… The experience was so cool and it just seemed so, so fun. And then when I listened to the session and read the transcript, it’s like, “We didn’t even talk about what it meant!” (Both laugh) And it was—
ELIAS: Because it wasn’t actually even necessary.
ELIAS: Because in that, what is important is that it’s flowing and that it’s moving, and that it’s moving in a direction of accomplishing. And therefore, it doesn’t matter. You don’t have to assign meaning to all of the imagery. You can, if you are so choosing, but you don’t have to. You can simply observe the imagery and watch what happens.
BRENDA: Right. And that is curious, because then what happened, the piece in the image that was in the EMG room, that it had a clearer picture of a tree on the edge that was beside a road, and so it added that piece and I hadn’t thought about it until right now. Well, the tree was large and magnificent, but it too had at one point been a seed, like all of the seeds that had been planted from the crop duster.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct. And in that, it was imagery of validation that you were presenting to yourself. Which, let me say to you that the point is that you notice things to be a validation to you. You could very well not notice. And in that, whatever it is that you DO notice, you are presenting to yourself to validate to yourself your experience.
BRENDA: Yeah, I can… I see that, and I think I’ve… even in the past week, just little things that are validating about basket weaving or about bread, and things that sometimes I just ignore. And there are things that happen so often that validate me. And sometimes I’m just not aware enough to see them. And then when you start seeing them, it’s like wow, that’s really cool. It may be nothing really big, but it is imagery that says yeah, it’s just a little bit of a lift or a nudge that says yeah, this is important to you. This is validation of that for me, and sometimes I just miss it.
ELIAS: (Laughs) But when you don’t, it is significant. And it doesn’t have to be something that you think of as large. It’s simply that nudge, as you expressed, that is giving you that element of validation and recognition. You’re giving yourself that recognition, that validation. And in that, it’s not that necessarily that you miss something, but rather that you notice when you are giving yourself that validation.
BRENDA: Yes. Yeah, it’s pretty cool that that happens. Well, a question about the super cells. I think when you were having this conversation with the other person, it said that really it’s as simple as regeneration. You set the intent with your body consciousness. And I think for maybe a year now, when I started after reading the book Longevity (See Note 1) about the ability for our… our body to retrieve information that we lose, which the book’s premise is that’s what aging is, loss of information, particularly in our cells. And I had been taking, a year August, I started taking NMN and Resveratrol, two supplements that are, have shown evidence of helping retrieve that cellular information. I guess it’ll be two questions. One, is that a beneficial piece to do with regeneration? And is it related to super cells?
ELIAS: (Pause) I would say it can be both, because it can be your method to be enhancing regeneration, and it can also be your method of generating super cells.
BRENDA: It feels like I have been doing that. Would you agree?
ELIAS: I would.
BRENDA: And, because I think I have mentioned before, I’ve noticed improved stamina and coordination. It feels like I’ve had changes in my hair and it’s harder to tell with internal organs, but I think I have, that I am succeeding in those areas.
ELIAS: I agree.
ELIAS: I very much agree.
BRENDA: (Both laugh) I do have one question. (Both laugh)
BRENDA: However! (Both laugh) We talked some time ago about me stopping taking hormones. I had been on estrogen and a small amount of testosterone, balancing hormones because of going through menopause. And I did stop them, and got, I guess I would say pressure from Robert, that he thought my stopping to take estrogen was affecting my libido. And so I was just wondering. Did I stop taking that too soon? Or is this just where I am right now?
ELIAS: (Pause) And before I respond to that, what is your assessment?
BRENDA: (Sighs) I think for me personally that my sexual interest is more related to my state of being. It’s impacted a lot by if I’m feeling tension or stress or pressure. And my sense is that dealing with those things is what’s really more important than me adjusting, getting back on hormones.
ELIAS: I agree.
ELIAS: I would say that in relation to sexual expressions, that that very much is tied to everything else in your life and what you are engaging. And let me also express to you, this is a piece that hasn’t actually been addressed to yet by most individuals, but there is a factor of sexual expression in relation to age in association with women, with female individuals. And this isn’t about age in the manner that you might think. It’s not because you’re becoming older and you’re losing your sex drive, so to speak. There is a difference with men and with women.
Now; what I would say is that with men, the sexual aspect of their lives is something that in relation to their sex drive, so to speak, it generally remains considerably active throughout their life, until they die. And I would say in that that it’s not that it doesn’t lessen. It does, but it doesn’t lessen tremendously.
Now; the reason being is that male individuals have generated engaging their sexual experience as an outlet of energy. And therefore, they’ve been focused in that throughout their entire lives. They learn that very, very young. Actually they learn that even before adolescence. And in that, throughout their lives, this is the direction that they move in.
Women move in somewhat of a different direction, that their sexual expression, their sex drive so to speak, is very connected with their emotional state. And in that, that’s how they balance throughout their life. But as women progress in age, what they pay attention to becomes different. They generally allow themselves more freedom as they age, and therefore in that, what they pay attention to is different, and how they direct their passions becomes different.
And therefore, it’s not that women lose their sex drive as they age. That’s a fallacy. It’s that their attention is moving in different directions and that their passions are being expressed in different directions. And in that, it seems that women move in a direction in which they lose their sex drive as they age, but it’s simply that their attention in their passions is shifting, and that they’re not as focused in that one direction.
Because let me express to you that your sex drive is very physically-oriented. And in that, it’s very momentary, in a manner of speaking, and the satisfaction of it is very momentary. Whereas as the individual begins to shift their passions and their attention, the satisfaction in other passions can be much greater and much more prolonged and consistent. And therefore, it’s more enriching than simply expressing in relation to sexual gratification.
Now; that doesn’t mean that people don’t continue to value sexual gratification, but that it may not be as tremendously important as it may have been when the individuals were younger. (Pause)
BRENDA: That’s very helpful to hear. Certainly from a female, woman’s perspective, that makes—
ELIAS: Yes. And it doesn’t have to do—
BRENDA: — a lot of sense.
ELIAS: It doesn’t have to do with your hormones.
BRENDA: Does not. Wow. So for where I am with regeneration and super cells, then at this point there’s really… I’m off of the hormones and that’s the most beneficial path for my body?
ELIAS: I would say.
BRENDA: Okay. Very, very good. I think a part of… I was curious last night. Caleb was up on the bed, asleep. And I bent down to just give him a kiss on his forehead and startled him, and he raised his head up really quickly and hit my mouth, my lips, and cut a gash in my lip with my teeth. And I was trying to figure out, oh my gosh, what is this imagery about? And I had made some hot water to drink and started to drink it, and it burnt my mouth like crazy. And I thought about it, and I wondered if that wasn’t imagery to get me to think about what I’m consuming, that I may be consuming unconsciously?
ELIAS: Ah! Congratulations.
BRENDA: (Laughs) I have a fat lip this morning, just to figure that out. (Both laugh)
ELIAS: Ah, but it will definitely encourage you to pay attention.
BRENDA: It does. And some of the things I think I do relate back to stress and tension a lot, that one of the ways I deal with stress and tension is… You know, in the morning I feel like I’ve got so much to do, so I drink coffee and probably more than I need. And then, you know, pressure, tension all day long, get this done, do that, do that, and then I want wine and/or whiskey in the evening because I don’t want to be the rabbit that I’ve been all day, and I want to relax. And I feel like a lot of what I consume is navigating, managing, managing the stress and pressure, tension, those things that you’ve talked about that can be so harmful to us.
ELIAS: I would agree. And what does that tell you?
BRENDA: It tells me that those are some of the things that need to change in 2023. That this morning, I noticed immediately after my first cup of coffee, it’s like, “My stomach is really not wanting any more of this.” And I stopped, and that feeling went away. And I realized last night I was feeling stressed and I did yoga. And it was very soothing and it was also… relieved the tension in my body. Where I think when I, if I’m drinking to eliminate the tension, I think I don’t feel the tension but that the tension may actually still be in my body, where with doing the yoga, it actually released the tension.
ELIAS: Correct. That is very observant, my friend. And I would say—
BRENDA: So I think—
ELIAS: — that you are correct.
BRENDA: Yeah. I want to… So this is sort of circling back to the healthy eating piece, that a lot of the work we’re doing is trying to make healthy eating more affordable for people in the community and there’s so much, so many different views on what’s healthy. And it made me, I think, where I am is really wanting to know for my body consciousness what is most beneficial. Robert believes very much in being vegetarian, and the occasional fish and seafood, but what I think I’ve noticed over the holiday is that my body needs less dairy. Which a lot of times when you’re a vegetarian, then instead of meat you have a lot of cheese. And I think one of the things I’m feeling is that I need less dairy. Would you agree?
ELIAS: I do agree.
BRENDA: And I’ve stopped eating chicken and I’ve wondered if that’s not a viable source, particularly chicken breast, for my body for protein?
ELIAS: I would agree again.
BRENDA: All right. And I did eat brisket over the holidays, I made my award-winning chili, and beef does not sit well with my body. (Both laugh) So I know, I know that one. I was thinking about different… You know, like there’s plant-based food and I do make some food with plant-based protein. I just don’t like the taste of it. So I was thinking that if I described to you what I would say would be a healthy diet for my body, it would be Mediterranean (pause) minus the beef and lamb and pork.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Mediterranean minus beef (laughs), lamb and pork. (Both laugh) Which would be not necessarily Mediterranean. (Laughs)
BRENDA: I know. (Elias laughs) It’s definitely… as much as I love Mexican food, what we eat, Tex-Mex, is, I can tell by how I feel afterwards. So what would…? For consumption in all areas, do you have any recommendation for… not just what’s not good, but what’s really beneficial to include in a diet for me?
ELIAS: I would say stick to whole foods, my friend.
BRENDA: Whole foods.
ELIAS: And you will be healthy and strong.
BRENDA: What do—
ELIAS: I would say—
BRENDA: Go ahead.
ELIAS: Move in a direction of paying attention to good gut health, which includes fermented and what you think of as pickled foods. And in that, other than that, to be generating a balance. Which would be a balance of poultry, fish, vegetables, grains, fruit and in that, allowing yourself to pay attention to what you’re consuming. Your work centers around helping people to eat healthy. I would say, be the example.
BRENDA: What about protein? Plant-based proteins are really important for people who eat vegan, have a vegan diet. Are…? Is that…?
ELIAS: I agree. And I also would say that a vegan diet is not natural to the human species. But it is a choice, and in that, people that move in the direction of that choice, it is important that they are generating protein in relation to plant-based proteins. And therefore yes, that is an important factor.
BRENDA: Hm. I know we had talked before about soy products not being beneficial for female bodies. And I assume for me that includes tofu, and was wondering does that mean it’s really not beneficial to eat it at all? Or to balance it in what I consume of that?
ELIAS: I would say it’s (pause) not a healthy food source.
Now; in that, if you’re going to consume it, I would suggest that you limit your consumption of it and that you are not consuming it on a regular basis, but that you consume it occasionally – but I would not be encouraging of you to be consuming it at all. Once again, it’s your choice, and if you choose to be moving in that direction, then my suggestion would be to do it sparingly.
BRENDA: It’s funny, a lot of times what I would use tofu for, I would really rather have chicken. So it makes more sense to just have the chicken, have the poultry.
ELIAS: I agree. I would definitely agree.
BRENDA: Okay. Well, very good. Then for alcohol consumption, I know you’ve… Linda, you’ve told Linda that I think nine ounces of wine is optimal for her. If I enjoy wine, whiskey and beer, especially in social occasions, do you have any advice on how do I balance that? How do I find, find balance?
(The timer for the end of the session rings)
ELIAS: I would say that it’s a matter of engaging in moderation. And I would also say that what is significant is not to mix them. If you are going to be consuming beer, then consume beer. If you’re going to consume wine, then consume wine. If you’re going to consume whiskey, then consume whiskey. I would definitely suggest you don’t mix them together. That actually wreaks havoc on your digestive system. Therefore I would definitely be steering you in the direction to not be engaging mixing different types of alcohol.
And in that, I would say that it’s simply a matter of engaging whatever alcoholic beverage you choose in (pause) a reasonable, responsible capacity. And what is responsible? Responsible is moving in a direction that is to your greatest benefit. Therefore, moving in a direction in which you are consuming an alcoholic beverage only to a point in which you can enjoy it, but it’s not being harmful to you. Meaning, if it disrupts your sleep, it’s too much and it’s being harmful. If it affects your stomach at all, it’s too much and it’s being harmful. If it impairs your balance, it’s too much and it’s being harmful. If it does anything to you that is potentially being harmful to you, then it’s not a benefit, obviously.
And in that, I would say that that’s how you gauge how to be engaging this substance in a responsible capacity. Responsible is always moving in a direction of what is to your greatest benefit. Therefore, it’s not about what society says is responsible or not responsible. It simply means paying attention to you, and moving in directions that are a benefit to you.
And I would say that consumption of this particular substance can be fun and enjoyable. Therefore, it’s not something that I would express to you or to anyone that you should absolutely avoid entirely, but to simply pay attention and be balanced, and be responsible to you, in relation to how you consume. Pay attention to your body. Just as you were expressing previously in this conversation that you’re noticing that it’s important to pay attention to what you’re consuming in relation to your body and what is good for it, in a manner of speaking, or how what you are consuming is affecting it. And in that, this substance is no different. That it’s a matter of simply paying attention to how it’s affecting your body consciousness. And if it’s affecting it in a manner that is not good for it, then it’s too much and stop.
BRENDA: Well, that makes sense. (Both laugh) It sounds like I have a plan for the new year.
BRENDA: I know. I’m excited.
ELIAS: I would say congratulations.
BRENDA: Well, I think we may have gone a little over time, so I’d better wrap this up so Mary can get on to her next thing. It’s great to share, share about this with you today, and I’m glad we got to talk before 2023 gets here.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And in that, I am tremendously encouraging of you, my friend.
BRENDA: Thank you.
ELIAS: I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting and more of your accomplishments.
BRENDA: (Laughs) I’ll let you know how the disruption goes.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Congratulations. In tremendous friendship and in dear love and affection to you as always, au revoir.
BRENDA: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour 6 minutes)
Note 1: The participant clarified that this reference was actually to the book Lifespan by David Sinclair.
Copyright 2022 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.