Resolving Difficulties with Child Behavior
Topics:
“Difficulty Between Children and Adults in the 21st Century”
“Not Making Angry Be Something Bad”
“What You’re Doing and How It Is Affecting”
Saturday, December 10, 2022 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael), Gail (William) and Scotty (Ashtaria)
(Audio begins partway through session)
SCOTTY: And I also have William on the line. So, I’m going to connect you two. (To Gail) Hi Gail! You’re on with Elias.
GAIL: Good morning.
ELIAS: And how have you been proceeding?
GAIL: Oh well, you know, I’m on a roller coaster over here. (Both laugh)
ELIAS: How so?
GAIL: Oh well (laughs), I’ve got my grandson, I’ve got my daughter, I’ve got a dog (laughs) and I’m trying – not trying, I don’t want to use that word – I am listening more and more to myself.
ELIAS: Excellent.
GAIL: And I get… You know, I get like little downloads of concepts from myself that I know I’m getting. And then I try to tap into it and I’m thinking, ah, just let it be and it’ll all gel. (Laughs) So I’m just trying to go with the flow mostly.
ELIAS: Ah! And how are you proceeding with your grandson?
GAIL: (Sighs) Well, we’ve definitely had some ups and downs. As I’m sure you’re aware, his mom passed away on his birthday last year, and it’s coming around to all the holidays, and he gets upset and angry and lashes out because he doesn’t know (inaudible) how to use his vocabulary to express how he’s feeling. I know he’s like sad at times, but yeah, I am really working on breathing and staying in my moment so I don’t react and get irritated and then try to control him. I mean I’m seeing that that’s part of the cycle, but I think all in all, I’m learning. That’s all I can say.
ELIAS: I understand. I understand. And what would you say—
GAIL: So is there any suggestion you could give me?
ELIAS: — is the most significant expression at this point? For you.
GAIL: I’m not…
SCOTTY: He said—
GAIL: I’m sorry?
SCOTTY: What do you think is the most significant expression at this point for you?
GAIL: Mm. You mean for myself?
ELIAS: Yes. What is the most significant challenge, let us say, for you presently?
GAIL: (Pause) To stay present and aware of myself, and asking myself like what am I reacting to. Noticing when I’m starting to accelerate in getting irritated. Yeah, that’s…
ELIAS: What do you—
GAIL: That’s—
ELIAS: What irritates you?
GAIL: Um… Well when he tells me, “Fuck off!” or if I ask him to do something, or if he slams the car door or slams the house door, or refuses to do his homework. Which, you know, which I understand. I mean I’m not in alignment with him doing homework but it’s required and… I think that’s where I’m at.
ELIAS: Very well. Therefore, you would say that your most significant challenge presently is you reacting to him reacting?
GAIL: Yes.
ELIAS: Very well. In that, can you stop momentarily and find what you’re making important about that?
GAIL: Um… (Pause) Well, I guess… (Sighs) What popped into my head was being disrespectful.
ELIAS: Ah! Now; what I would say to you – and this is somewhat of a holdover in your generation – is that individuals in your generation still have an underlying perception that children should be behaving in certain manners. And that’s what you would express as being disrespectful or respectful. And then in that, that’s significant that you can identify that because in this, let me say that for a time in your 20th century, for a significant time in your 20th century, children were viewed or perceived as being something that created an annoyance.
Now; understand that this very much was influenced by your first world war and then moving into the second world war, and also in between engaging in the Great Depression. And this is not only in your country, but throughout the world. And in that, what I would say is that in relation to this time framework, children became less of a gift and more of an irritation. And therefore in order to maintain a perception that children were still important, people moved in a direction of creating these rules of behavior with children. Which what that did was create a situation in which children were not actually allowed to be children any longer, but that they were expected to acquiesce to the adults.
Now; in this, that has created a myriad of difficulties. And in the (pause) final decades, the final two decades of your 20th century and then moving into your 21st century what has happened is the adults have begun to move in different directions and have been less inclined to have such rigid rules with children. But what that has created is somewhat of an allowance for children to actually be children again, but the problem with that is that the adults haven’t fully moved in the direction of an acceptance of that. They don’t actually know how.
And therefore what ensues is children are being diagnosed as being on this spectrum or that spectrum or having this problem or having that issue, because they are not actually being allowed to BE children and because the adults still want to modify their behavior, but they don’t want to be expressing all of these rigid rules with them. And therefore in that, there is created a myriad of issues between adults and children. And they’re being expressed in extremes. The children are expressing in extremes and that is creating significant difficulties for the adults because they have these underlying guidelines in their perception of how children should be raised AND how children should be expressing in relation to precisely that being respectful to adults. And that is creating more and more difficulties between the adults and the children.
In this, I would say that it’s a matter of first of all recognizing where your difficulties are stemming from, and then you will have more ability to redirect, not only redirecting you but also helping to redirect the child, because the children have developed some extreme behaviors that are difficult. And in that, it creates this situation in which the children AND the adults are having significant difficulty with each other.
What I would say to you is, I would first of all be tremendously acknowledging of you that you actually could identify that piece of perceiving that he’s being disrespectful.
Now; the next piece that I would say to you is children don’t understand what being respectful or disrespectful means. That comes from generations of adults setting rules for the behaviors of children to not be children, and then expressing that that is the measure of respect, is the child’s ability to comply with those rules.
Now; in that, there has become generations of adults that still hold to those perceptions, and they don’t even know why they hold to those perceptions and they don’t understand that the children themselves can’t actually express in certain manners because they don’t understand the concept. They don’t even know what it means.
In that—
GAIL: Well, I am having, in having conversations with Kelly I ask him you know to be kind, like him being at camp and even pulling a chair out from another child, I said, “Kelly, that’s not kind. That’s being mean.” And so it’s… I mean I’m… Is that showing him—
ELIAS: Now, what I would say to that is that—
GAIL: —the idea—
ELIAS: —is very similar to expressing the subject of respect.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: Children don’t understand “kind” and “mean,” either.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: They understand that those are words, and they understand that YOU are attaching a meaning to those words and that one of those words you’re attaching a meaning of “good” and one of those words you’re attaching the meaning of “bad.” And as I’ve expressed, these are all (pause) offshoots of the right and wrong. And this is what I have expressed to all of you previously, that children don’t have a concept of right and wrong.
They have a concept of consequences, and that’s the reason that rules worked or that rules were, in your terms, previously successful because children do have a concept of consequences. They may not understand WHY they are incurring a consequence for something, but they do understand that when the adults are dissatisfied or are unhappy, that that will create consequences for them.
They don’t understand the concept of being nice. What does that mean? Or being mean. What does that mean? They are very simple in their expressions of behavior, that they are either reacting to what they feel because they don’t know what to do with what they feel, because they’re not actually being instructed in relation to or guided in relation to what they feel. Therefore, they don’t know what to do in relation to what they feel. Therefore, they react to what they feel.
And in that, they don’t have a concept that what they’re doing in relation to what they feel is either good or bad or right or wrong. It’s simply a reaction to what they feel. And whatever they feel, they don’t have a judgment about that it’s right or wrong. They do recognize if it’s comfortable or uncomfortable, and that’s why they have a concept of consequences.
But in that—
GAIL: Because some, some… In Kelly’s slamming the door, what was behind the action or the feeling action of him slamming the door? I mean, I want to understand what he was thinking or feeling when he did that.
ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent. And what I would say to you is I can help by beginning in that direction but I would exceedingly encourage you in the moment, when he does something, to stop. To not react to his reaction, but stop. First, check yourself and put yourself in a calm and neutral state. That is exceedingly important. Then approach him and ask him: “What are you feeling?” And if he says, “Nothing,” then express, “No, you are feeling something because you slammed the door. And I genuinely want to help and understand. So what are you feeling? And the reason I’m asking you what you’re feeling is because there are other actions that we can do in relation to what we feel.”
SCOTTY: What we feel.
ELIAS: There are other things. And in that, I would also express to you to become prepared now in relation to addressing to feelings. If he’s angry, he doesn’t know what to do with that.
GAIL: Yeah, I know. (Laughs)
ELIAS: And therefore he needs an outlet for being angry. What is acceptable—
GAIL: Well, I have… I got a boxing, boxing bag and gloves and he rides his dirt bike to express the intensity. I mean but he doesn’t want to do the boxing thing, so is there an action that—
ELIAS: And in that, and with him, have you gone with him or do you simply tell him to do it?
GAIL: Well, usually I put the gloves on him or the wraps on him and go over and stand with him. I don’t punch the bag myself, but I indicate that he can do this and I’m always, I always go with him. But he doesn’t—
ELIAS: I understand. But if you’re not doing it also, then he’s also looking at that as a consequence.
SCOTTY: Oh.
GAIL: He’s what?
ELIAS: Therefore—
SCOTTY: He’s looking at it as a consequence.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. Therefore, it’s a matter of you showing him this is not a punishment, this is not a consequence, this is an outlet, and we do this together. Because you’re doing other things together and if he’s slamming the door and reacting, you’re reacting. You’re doing that together.
GAIL: Ah. Okay.
ELIAS: He sees what you ARE doing together, even if it’s reacting. If you aren’t doing something together, then this is not something that is perceived as productive. This is something that is perceived as punitive.
GAIL: Hm.
ELIAS: In this, it’s a matter of you being entirely interactive and involved with him. And that’s another piece of this, is that he’s lost his mother.
GAIL: Yeah.
ELIAS: He doesn’t understand that entirely, but what he does understand is that the people that are around him that love him or that tell him that they love him are not involved with him in the manner that his mother would be. And therefore, in that—
GAIL: Well, that’s not replaceable, right?
ELIAS: Repeat.
GAIL: That’s not replaceable, right?
ELIAS: It’s not—
GAIL: I mean, no one can replace his mom.
ELIAS: It’s not about, it’s not about replacing.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: It’s not about replacing. It’s about simply being. The factor that another individual can step into a role of being invested and involved with him is not replacing his mother. It’s showing him that other people have the capacity to be with him and to be involved with him also. That there isn’t only one person in the entire universe that can do that.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: In that, being angry simply means he doesn’t know what to do with himself. And he doesn’t know what to feel and what’s acceptable to feel and what isn’t acceptable to feel. Let me express to you, my friend, adults don’t know what to feel and what to do with death. Children feel abandoned with death. In this, it’s a matter of not making angry be something bad – because it’s not.
GAIL: Uh-huh. Well yeah, I know it’s a feeling that he has and I know he likes to do very physical things to help release, release energy. But is there anything that I can do with him—
ELIAS: What do you do with him?
GAIL: —that—
ELIAS: What do you do with him physically when he is--?
GAIL: What do I…? Repeat, please?
ELIAS: (Pause) What do you do physically with him when he is with you?
GAIL: Um… Let’s see. Well, when we play cards together, we play Uno. We do homework, which he doesn’t really enjoy and neither do I. What else do we do together? Well, he’s kind of pulled away from doing (inaudible) with me and he prefers doing things with other kids his own age. Which I’m… You know, I try to… I create play dates that he can interact or go down to the park with friends and play. Yeah, I feel like he’s somewhat not very interested in doing things with, with Grandma. It’s more he wants to do things with other friends. But what I do with him is play charades or cards or watch videos together, that sort of thing, jump rope.
ELIAS: And what does he do with his friends?
GAIL: They play soccer. They play videogames together. They play tag. They go on play equipment. They throw footballs back and forth. They play dodge ball. I mean, that kind of activity.
ELIAS: And why can’t you play also? (Pause) Or why can’t you take him and his friends for a hike?
GAIL: Yeah, I like doing that. And so does Kelly. We go on hikes occasionally.
ELIAS: I would say that—
GAIL: So you’re suggesting that I be more interactive with, with Kelly?
ELIAS: Playing cards is not a physical activity.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: Doing homework is not fun.
GAIL: Nope. (Laughs) Not for either of us.
ELIAS: Therefore, it’s a matter of engaging physical activities with him and participating.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: Now; what is significant in all of this is also for you to address to what is automatic for you, because it’s then an underlying factor in your society. It’s not necessarily something that’s been overtly taught to you, it’s something that’s simply expected and what is expressed in your society. And that is about (pause) if you have playtime for the child, the child is expected to do that themself or with other children. That adults are not involved with children. That you think that your involvement is either to listen to them or to do something such as doing homework with them, and you think that that’s being helpful. That’s not an involvement with them and they definitely don’t perceive it as an involvement.
In being involved with them is to be engaging them. And let me say to you, it’s quite interesting that there are some individuals that DO involve themselves with children and they play with them. And generally speaking, those adults are viewed as being immature. (Pause)
SCOTTY: Elias?
ELIAS: Yes.
SCOTTY: Gail could also encourage, I know she has already, probably exhaustingly, but her son Brad who is Kelly’s father to be more physically involved. Like he could be the one that would also be punching the bag with Kelly or he could also be the one, you know, hiking and doing these more really physically exerting activities. Is there any suggestion that you could offer to Gail, even though she has I know exhausted this so much, but some way that she could suggest to her son Brad that he could be the one that would physically be more involved with Kelly, as a therapeutic forum for Kelly? Gail, you’ve already done that. I know. (Laughs) But like how would you normally go about—
ELIAS: What I would say in that is: instruct by example. No. Is there something that you can express to your son to be more involved with his child? No.
SCOTTY: Okay.
ELIAS: You can’t. And he won’t hear it anyway.
GAIL: Well, you are (laughs).
ELIAS: What I would say to you, what I would say to you is that your greatest tool is example. It’s not expressing a judgment of him. It’s not instructing him by telling him what to do or what to stop doing or what he does or what he doesn’t do enough of. It is a matter of not concerning yourself with that, but more genuinely paying attention to what YOU are doing and how YOU are involved. And in that, reminding yourself that you can be someone that he can actually trust. You can be someone that he can actually feel safe with. You can be someone that he actually recognizes, values him, and is invested in him. And not to be concerned with what any other individual, including his father, does or doesn’t do.
I would say that his father is battling with his own demons, in a manner of speaking.
GAIL: Yeah. Yeah, I can, I can definitely see that.
ELIAS: And in that, he’s not capable of doing more than he is doing, which may seem to be not much at all but that’s as much as he can do at this point. And this is an example also of – for all of you – how there are different points in your lives that you may not be pleased with or proud of, but that that was as much as you could do at that time, and that you couldn’t do anything different and that there is no point in judging that, because you can’t do anything different at that time. And that’s the position he’s in presently and he may not be out of that for a significant time framework, but that’s not your concern. Your concern is what you’re doing and how it is affecting with your grandson.
GAIL: Yes.
ELIAS: And in that, I understand that this is a young boy that has a lot of energy and a lot of anger and in that, it may be exhausting, and that you are the grandmother not the mother, and that you might be tired and not necessarily always want to be physically engaging. But then it’s also a matter of reminding yourself of what choices you’re making.
GAIL: Mm-hm.
ELIAS: That—
GAIL: I love being active with Kelly and it’s actually to my benefit to also be active instead of just being sedentary, which frustrates me, so...
ELIAS: I agree. I very much agree. I very much agree. And I would say that it also is greatly to your benefit to be interactive, to even be interactive with his friends.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: And to (inaudible)—
GAIL: Well, I always feel, I feel like I’m intruding (laughs).
ELIAS: The more you are, the more you are actually contributing to your own regeneration.
GAIL: Yes.
SCOTTY: That’s a good way to think about it, I guess.
GAIL: Yeah. Yeah.
SCOTTY: Hey Gail, did you want to, in the last twenty minutes, did you want to try to ask more about that? Or should I move into an Ankarrah question? Or what do you, what do you want to do?
GAIL: Well I… I think Elias gave me – thank you – gave me a starting point to focus on, and I will, I will work on that part of it. So, I’d like to go ahead and talk about the Ankarrah symbols.
ELIAS: Very well. But before that, let me also give you one more piece of advice.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: And that would be in relation to the punching bag.
GAIL: Yes.
ELIAS: I would say that the next time that you move in the direction of the punching bag, that I would express to you, ask him to put the gloves on you.
GAIL: Oh! Okay.
ELIAS: Express to him that you’re angry also.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: And that you want to hit the punching bag.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: And therefore, would he put the gloves on you instead.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: Which will be a very different experience for him and it will communicate to him that he’s not the only one that is doing this, and it’s not something that is a consequence. It’s a choice.
GAIL: Okay. I remember when I was in therapy and the therapist asked me to throw glass bottles at a wall and break them. And I really… And I got my kids involved in it when they were younger, and I could feel even at the time that that was really helpful for them to participate with me. And that’s the action that you’re asking me, right?
ELIAS: Yes.
GAIL: Okay.
ELIAS: Yes. That it’s not only him. That you are involved together.
GAIL: Okay. (Sighs) So what about riding bikes? I feel a little shaky about that. I kind of want to do it again, but I haven’t ridden bikes in a long time and I’ve fallen off of scooters and skate, skateboards.
ELIAS: I would say to you, that I would say that would be an excellent exercise for you.
GAIL: Okay.
SCOTTY: Just take it easy, Gail. Don’t go crazy. (Laughs) Don’t hurt yourself. Gail, this—
ELIAS: It’s not a matter of being a speed demon immediately, but I would say that you may actually enjoy yourself.
GAIL: Yeah, I have a feeling I will, but I… But I know Kelly has a tendency to go really fast. (Laughs) So he’s going to have to slow down for Grandma.
SCOTTY: Our dear William is seventy years old now, Elias, so let’s not go too crazy with the daredevil physical activities. (Laughs)
GAIL: Oh, that’s funny.
(Audio excerpt ends after 45 minutes)
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