A brush with COVID; Defining Reality; Working Less
Topics:
“Covid Experience”
“Aspect Change”
“The Nature of Reality”
“The Example of the Mass Event”
“What Colors Perception”
“The Wonderment of Consciousness”
Wednesday, April 13, 2022 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Markus (Markus)
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
MARKUS: Good nowness, my friend.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And how shall we begin?
MARKUS: Well, as usual, let’s chat. Let me tell a few of the things I experienced and then we will see which of the topics was picked.
ELIAS: Very well.
MARKUS: Okay. Well, the most recent thing is that I’ve had a little stint with our virus.
ELIAS: Ah.
MARKUS: Like two weeks, yeah, almost two weeks ago, for a week I… Yeah, I tested positive and had some, some symptoms and overall it was basically a mild flu or a small cold. So nothing to… well, nothing to make of it, make out of, but okay, I understand that it’s different for different people. But the more interesting thing was that I had a week of being very, very, very tired leading up to that. And maybe I… Maybe I just had caught the virus itself earlier and the body was battling or having fun with it. And one other thing is that I’m even being rather tired since I’m coming out of it.
And overall, I had the impression – this is something that I have with illnesses generally, because they are so rare with me, like I have a flu or a cold or something like that, maybe every three or four years – and I always have the impression that I’m coming back from these experiences a different person. It’s like I’m… the term “aspect change” is popping up in my head. It’s like you’re shutting down your computer and doing an update and coming back with I don’t know, a new feature or new personality traits or swapping out some personality traits. It’s like I’m not, no longer the same person that I have been before I had this stint with the virus. So this is a kind of interesting experience.
ELIAS: I understand. And I would actually agree with you. It isn’t that you are entirely a different individual, but that yes, that you do generate some significant changes.
MARKUS: Yeah, it kind of did feel like that. I mean, I initiated some changes leading up to that, during the time when I was so tired, like I decided to change my work schedule, like I work less or quote “work part-time,” and this was one thing. And another thing is that I kind of… this is a really strange feeling. It’s even stranger than in previous times, or maybe I’m just noticing more details. It’s like I slipped, the “I” that is now “I”, myself, slipped into a life that it’s just kind of I only knew from stories or observations, like if you assume in a movie or in a book an agent who has to take up the life of another person and so he comes back to this house that he has been told about and shown photos and going to his work and that kind of… And there are these strange situations where I think, oh, this is what I have for evening or ah, this is my bicycle, mm-hm. And of course, I remember this is my bicycle, but these, there are these strange moments of trying to get accustomed to something that I’ve done all the time or I’ve even changed—
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: —some small things.
ELIAS: That is very understandable. And what I would say is, that is an excellent example of an aspect change.
Now; not one that is entirely different, that you would then experience something very similar to amnesia, but that it is enough of an aspect change that it’s noticeable and that you are having these moments in which you have to remind yourself of your own life, and what has been familiar to you but that isn’t necessarily entirely familiar to you any longer.
MARKUS: Yeah, that’s about like how I (inaudible).
ELIAS: And in that, I would say other than having those experiences, do you notice that you also have other experiences that seem to be easy for you, that you note to yourself wouldn’t have been easy before?
MARKUS: Hmm, no, so far.
ELIAS: Or that you are expressing yourself in a manner that seems unusual and that you wouldn’t necessarily have expressed yourself in that manner before?
MARKUS: Yeah, there are. Actually there are two things I… There were just… One thing was just a bit overlapping or leading up to, I picked up painting again. I’ve told about the dinosaur last time, and I did a few other oil paintings recently, leading up to that, and they… I kind of noticed that for someone with as little experience as I have with the whole topic, I know a terrible lot about it. Like those two came out really easy to me, like from a technical standpoint. I’m currently grappling a little with a lack of inspiration, like coming out of those paintings that I now don’t really know what to do with that skill. But that was something that I think is new. And another thing is that I, let’s… this is a bit pointed expression, but I tend to not hate people as much as I used to. Like I always said, or I always felt that I was kind of a (inaudible) or that I often said that the world would be a great place if there wouldn’t be any humans in it. (Elias laughs) And that had, has dampened a bit.
ELIAS: Ah. I would say that that is typical of when you change aspects, that you will not only notice things that you are attempting to reacquaint yourself with, acclimate yourself to, but that you also notice different expressions that seem to be somewhat new, that you realize that whatever it is that you’re terming to be the old you wouldn’t necessarily be doing, and that this new you IS doing.
Now; I would also say in relation to some of those familiar actions, such as your painting, you might discover with your painting that even though it may seem easier to you, you might not be as interested in doing it. You might be more interested in doing other actions around it.
MARKUS: (Laughs) I certainly did, because I bought like a ton of material. Like kind of I might need this, I need a canvas, might need a canvas in this size and I might need a canvas in that size, and I might need brushes in different sizes. I mean, I even did that years ago, but I talked about this earlier with Mary, with Michael, and her attic and her supplies of yarn, and my painting supplies look like this.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Now; let me say to you that when you change aspects, it’s not the same as let us say having an influence of another focus, which you might have another focus of an individual that is an art shop keeper. But that’s not the type of experience that happens when you change aspects, because these are all aspects of you that are latent. Therefore in this, this may be an aspect of you that also is a painter but that is also interested in or it is important to have organizational skills.
MARKUS: Mm-hm. And supply and stock, like this feels a bit like a shopkeeper who never knows if a client would come and request a certain thing, so he needs to have all the colors in stock or the (inaudible).
ELIAS: Yes, but it’s not. But it’s not that. It is an aspect of you in this focus that has simply been latent or not expressed. Therefore in that, it’s not quite that you’re motivated to move in a direction of having an art shop, but that you are at this point more interested in being organized and organizing your supplies and having the supplies. And in that what I would say is, it may be an aspect of you that wants to always be prepared. And that may also show itself in other capacities—
MARKUS: It definitely does. It definitely does.
ELIAS: Yes. In that, this is an aspect of you that’s been latent, that hasn’t necessarily been expressed in this volume, let us say. And what you notice is that this part of you is the part of you that wants to be prepared for anything. Therefore if something strikes you in a moment, you’re prepared for it. And to do something in a moment, you don’t have to stop whatever it is that you’re already engaged with and then readjust yourself because you weren’t prepared with what you want to do. That this aspect of you will be thinking ahead and wanting to be prepared for anything. That would be the difference, that it’s not a bleedthrough from another focus, but that you definitely recognize that you are you and for the most part you feel that you are you in what is familiar to you, but you do notice some significant differences.
MARKUS: Hm. I will have to… This is an interesting direction to look at it, because I just had this term pop up in my head. I mean, I had the idea earlier already in recent or years back when I had other, let’s say, small accidents or illnesses, and I had never taken the time to look into it in any depth. I have just kind of noticed or acknowledged it and like the adjustment process is pretty quick. And so far I went with it, but this time—
ELIAS: What I would say to you is that you do this when you are ready for a change, not the other way around.
MARKUS: Ah. I thought so.
ELIAS: It isn’t that this happens or you become ill and that creates this change in you, in your personality. It’s the other way around, that—
MARKUS: I thought so, because the way I treat illness, those situations usually have to do with a lot of sleep. So it’s like I am shutting down the computer and going inward for an extent of time—
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: For more time than I would normally do, and then it would be internal readjustments. And this time I also noticed that when I came back from dream states, whatever I dreamt made even less sense than usually. I mean, I had phases where I had a dream journal, which is something I kind of neglected over the last few months. And the dreams that I came back with from there, had at least some recognizable structure like people and vehicles and doing something, going from here to there or whatever it is, but this time I had things where like I would slowly rise from the dream state or inner state and slightly cross the border towards the regular consciousness. And I can basically tell that seconds ago there was something that made absolute, total sense to me and now it’s just fragments of incomprehensible, not even people mostly. And I think this is also kind of a deeper restructuring process—
ELIAS: I would—
MARKUS: — or so I would guess.
ELIAS: Yes. I definitely agree. It is an interesting exploration that you choose in that manner, that most individuals don’t choose to be creating or moving in a direction of altering aspects of themselves. Sometimes people will do that in a more extreme manner, which I’ve explained pastly when people have a lack of memory or a lack of recall of memory of large amounts of time, that they seem to have a blackout in a manner of speaking of recall of memory for years, and they have blank spots in their memory. And THAT, if it’s not associated with trauma and that the individual has shut down, if it’s not associated with that, that can very well be an indicator that the individual has moved in a direction of changing their primary aspect of themself to a very different one.
And in that, what happens is that their recall of their memories, their memories are pushed into a position in which they are not accessible easily. Just as with whatever aspect you have that you are engaged with yourself as your normal self, so to speak, you don’t have memories of other aspects of yourself. They are pushed in a direction of being held in a very similar position to memories of other focuses. They are not easily accessible. They are accessible, but not easily, and therefore the individual automatically has this expression that they don’t remember large amounts of time.
But what you’ve done is something very different, in which you’re not moving in a direction of changing your primary aspect to one that is significantly different, but simply slightly or somewhat different, in order to engage different experiences in this lifetime, in this reality. Which is an interesting choice. Not many people do that. But it does give you much more access to yourself and much more of your abilities and what is you, the many different facets of yourself, and being able to access that. Which also most people don’t do.
MARKUS: Ah. This will be an interesting thing to see in which direction I will actually be moving. Like—
ELIAS: I agree. And it will be interesting to observe from this point whether you choose that same method to do this futurely.
MARKUS: Oh. Okay.
ELIAS: Whether you choose to make that leap or make that distinction of changing those aspects by creating an illness and then moving in the direction of the new aspect.
MARKUS: It makes it more recognizable, so…
ELIAS: Yes, but you may actually choose some other method that would still make it recognizable but perhaps somewhat different.
MARKUS: Hm.
ELIAS: It will be interesting to observe.
MARKUS: Ah, definitely. Although as I said, short-term it will be more interesting to observe which, what will be the purpose or what will be the direction I’m preparing myself for, because I kind of have the impression that… yeah, I had the impression that basically having my brush with this virus in a recognizable way is probably also kind of an endpoint or official endpoint for this whole pandemic thing, on which I’ve spent, quote, “far too much time and effort.” Although as we’ve spoken already, it had been very rewarding, but since we last spoke, looking at or observing the whole thing has been a little less rewarding than it used to. So this is probably the kind of phasing-out of the whole thing.
ELIAS: I understand and I would agree.
MARKUS: Ah. Well, one thing that still keeps popping up, but kind of now independent of the pandemic, is the whole perception and reality thing, like what we talked about last time with the example of the tree in the woods, which falls or does not fall or make a sound if nobody is there, or the question what made the World Trade Center fall and if there is a domain or… yeah, if there is a domain where these things happen from which we as individuals then create our perceptions and realities.
And I’m kind of still toying with the various layers of basically what perception even means and what is perceived. And I think I mentioned it last time also, that I kind of had a misunderstanding even of the word “reality,” and so it’s like let’s… I’m currently seeing this as layers of transparent foil folding on top of each other, where each foil is adding some aspect to the painting or to the complete “picture,” quote, of the world, and where you have the physical, let’s say sense mechanism, like a visual sense or a hearing sense, and then adding other layers, like let’s say associations of similar events, and then the personal mood and whatever it is, and this is all put on top of each other and the whole, the whole, the whole set of layers makes the whole picture of what we term “reality.”
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: And I’m like trying to peel off these layers or get an idea of what layers are there and it’s… it’s also, I’m kind of torn. It’s a worthwhile endeavor to see what is the… like this common point that makes our shared reality, which let’s say conventionally we think we observe.
Like the fact that there is a tree out there. Like with an analogy that I’ve just described, I still assume there is a tree and then there are all those layers that create our picture of reality, which we think or we tend to think is the same as reality for everybody. And I’m still like poking in the… in the fog, to find to what extent is this, this domain or what extent or what mechanism has this domain where these things are shared. Like let’s assume I walk with someone and we both agree there’s a tree out there and we both even assume okay, this tree is made of atoms and it has a certain size, although this size is also already a subjective thing. Like if you also see large trees you may construe this size as small, while if you mostly see smaller trees you may say it’s large. So the size of it is already somewhere in the perception and association comparison mechanism. But yeah, we can agree that there is something that we both call “tree,” and probably we can also agree that we can’t walk straight through it.
So I’m looking at this, yeah, this domain or where we said last time this domain where airplanes hit the buildings and this domain which kind of decides if one of the two explanations, the airplane made the building crash or a subsequent explosion made the building crash is more or less accurate, and this is my most… I’m spending a lot of time trying to peel those layers apart or put them, or put these concepts together in a new way because—
ELIAS: Now; what would you say, how would you be putting these concepts together in a new way? Because in this, as you are aware, we have discussed this and that this would be that subject again of there not being an official reality. But—
MARKUS: I think – Okay, yeah, go ahead.
ELIAS: There is a reality that many people agree on. But then there are, in some subjects, realities that many people would agree on in one direction and many people would agree on in another direction.
MARKUS: Hm. One thing that’s kind of, yeah, new to me is that I would redefine the word “reality” in a way that I hadn’t understood it before. And I would… I’m currently only using the word “reality” for something that is deeply personal. So in the sense like I said, even the perception if this tree is large or small, in my perception this makes a large tree but this is my reality and there’s no official definition if this is a large or a small tree. So someone else may also observe a tree and they may even construe it in a different type of tree because they don’t know what kind of tree it is exactly. Like they may think it’s a birch and I may think it’s an oak, to make a bold example.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: But I wouldn’t use the word “reality” any more for the fact that there is a tree or that there is a group of atoms or that there is an energetic action that filters into our reality as a group of atoms that creates sort of a physical expression that in our culture we call “tree.” I wouldn’t call that same, that core thing from which my perception and reality is built, I wouldn’t call that “reality” any more.
ELIAS: And what would you term that to be now?
MARKUS: Ah, I don’t have a… I’ve thought about it. I would call it the actuality or the factuality, but it’s a very, very condensed version of what the expression, “There is a tree,” which is in my reality. “There is a tree” encompasses much, much, much, much more than the, let’s say, actuality that there is this energetic expression with atoms, etc., etc., based on the blueprint of our reality and belief that atoms behave in a certain way, etc. This is a… I would call it the actuality maybe. But it encompasses much, much, much, much less than I previously had thought what reality is.
And I’m like, would now say this is a small beginning point, and then through perception and personality and association and opinion and belief, etc., you put layers on that and paint a much richer picture of this small expression in actuality. And you tend to think that everybody creates more or less the same rich picture, while there is no, and this is how I understand the expression, there is no official reality. Meaning there is no right way to create the rich picture.
ELIAS: I understand. In that, I would say I would be very much acknowledging you. In a manner of speaking, you are creating a different definition for reality or for that word “reality,” in a similar manner to what the impressionists did with painting.
MARKUS: Hm. Yes. And I mean I’m, with this I’m even kind of trying—
ELIAS: Therefore in that, I understand when you are expressing that you would only use that word “reality” in relation to a highly personal expression of something, which would be very much in keeping with what the impressionists were doing.
MARKUS: I’m kind of trying to avoid the word “reality” because it’s so packed with preconceived ideas.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: Like how in many cases you are using slightly unusual words, like you’re not saying “clothing” but “garments,” or something like that in order to strip away all those ideas and be able to explain a concept without too many preconceived notions or yeah, without too many, because there is some always.
ELIAS: Correct. I very much understand and I would say that I appreciate this new aspect of you.
MARKUS: (Laughs) Thank you. I mean it’s…
ELIAS: This will be a fun aspect of you to be engaging and discussing with. (Both laugh)
MARKUS: I can imagine. I mean, it’s fun for me. It started with the pandemic stuff because I saw how or could even experience or perceive how vastly different perception of people of the whole thing is. And—
ELIAS; Very much so.
MARKUS: I kind of had it just like impressions of the end product, and so I was trying to peel those layers apart and see what’s, what’s quote “real.”
ELIAS: Yes. And this particular mass event has created (laughs) an excellent example of that diversity in “real” and the diversity in perception, and how real that is for people and therefore also emphasizing what I defined as one of the major points of that mass event: to present differences.
MARKUS: That certainly did happen, I mean.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I agree. It certainly did. (Chuckles)
MARKUS: Even there are so many people who I’ve read or heard saying that it’s pointless to discuss with the other side because… I mean this was said in frustration, and they’re still thinking that their view or their rich picture of the whole thing is more correct than the rich picture which the others are producing.
But basically, looking down the whole chain and then trying to see okay, what could I place in the actual or in the domain of actuality, like pure atomic, maybe the biological processes as some sort of core. And even with the most basic things, like I’m placing an apple on my table and trying to describe this as actuality, it already within a few words, it creates a softness that’s no longer the atomic, atomically clearly defined fact, actual super fact thing. So even the simplest, or in my perception I think I can see where even the simplest expressions in energy and physical manner are creating a softness at the edges in no time.
So if you have a process like this pandemic which affects a vast amount of people, so you can’t even count all the atoms or at any point can’t even maybe observe a single body or even a single in vitro petri dish experiment, you have so much data that it gets soft at the edges because you have to filter out some and internalize some of the effects that you… and then you can’t transcribe it or transfer it to in vivo, in body experiment, because a body behaves completely different than your petri dish. So this domain of actuality, it has shrunken tremendously from even my, let’s say from even my ideas of reality that were already trimmed down, which I had thought were trimmed down to the bare bones. And now this, let’s say shared domain or domain of actuality, it has even shrunken more so. It’s amazing how much, what I would now call personal reality—
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: — or as you put it, perception, how much layers and how much volume and how much depth it has which is not part of this bare bones, mechanical atomic or process that may be making up the very super basic structure of our planet or life.
ELIAS: Yes. I agree. (Laughs) And when you include that tremendous diversity of difference and how real that is, you begin to see that you can identify, if you are paying attention, how whatever it is that you are discussing or you are defining or you are addressing to, it’s all a matter of what each of you deems to be right and correct.
The only difference that occurs is in becoming more self-aware. Then you have the awareness that what you are expressing, that there is more beyond the bare bones, so to speak. That in that, you are simply engaging with concepts that you somewhat share, but that the reality of what you are engaging are considerably different.
MARKUS: Certainly. Certainly.
ELIAS: And that in that, you can THEN move in the direction of recognizing that more genuine acceptance in relation to the realization that all of these variations are (chuckles) equally as real.
MARKUS: Yeah. It has, it has an interesting effect because seeing how much of the end product for, let’s say experience, just to avoid the word “reality” altogether, like the experiences explored from perceiving actuality and then putting all of those layers on top, and seeing how much this extra stuff or how personal this extra stuff is, kind of gives me the impression of being lonely because those worlds which every, or which conventionally everybody thinks they are observing more or less the same world, they are so so, so, so, so, so, so different that even most of communication is like a major misunderstanding.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) I agree. And this, my dear friend, would be the reason that I have expressed many times that it is astounding that you can communicate with each other at all.
MARKUS: I can get glimpses of that. (Elias laughs) I can get glimpses of that. It’s… Yeah.
ELIAS: Because you ARE expressing realities that ARE so very different that it is quite amazing how you actually DO move in directions in (chuckles) which you ARE genuinely communicating with each other and understanding each other, but with such different perceptions.
MARKUS: Mm-hm. Kind of my playground is now to get an idea of how, let’s say how much this domain of actuality overlaps or influences this, let’s say. I don’t want to play the percentage game, just for the sake of argument, like if it’s 0.001% or if it’s maybe 5% or if it’s 10% so from the overlap of, let’s say those 5% or even the overlap of 1%, which is probably closer to what the actual overlap, or depending on how well people know each other, how much they have learned to understand the differences in each other. But yeah, it’s an interesting area to explore and this new experience in Ukraine is a vast field of exploration for that as well.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. (Laughs) Very much so.
MARKUS: Because I’m kind of mighty annoyed how one-sided this whole thing is, in my view. Like it’s rather similar to the pandemic, where everybody agreed on, or the vast majority agreed on that it is dangerous and that vaccination is the way out. And similarly, I find myself in kind of a minority position with this Ukraine event as well. But since it doesn’t affect me as directly, like since the corona measures did affect me and since the Ukraine event is sufficiently far away that it doesn’t have any direct effect yet on me, I can have a bit of a more relaxed view to observe how people are, what realities people are creating from this whole event, through the mechanisms which they have like the media, which is very, very… like all painting the same picture almost. But it’s easier to observe in a more relaxed way, compared to when our own government decided something that I still had the impression or the belief that it would affect me directly.
ELIAS: I understand. And in that, is it aiding you now in exploring this new direction with perception to see (pause) your perception as different and also though seeing that (pause) you can’t necessarily be forced into something if you’re not agreeing with it?
MARKUS: Certainly, yes. I’m not even trying to argue with anyone about it at all. Like with the corona thing, especially initially, when I had thought that this domain of actuality, this domain of actual fact, was larger than I now believe it is, I thought that, back then I thought that within this small core at least I should be able to make or bring people to an agreement, until I found out that this core is even smaller than I thought, and although I already thought it was pretty small.
And so in that domain or in that area in this quote “enlarged” idea of facts that I had, I had still tried to argue or discuss facts with people, until I had a few revelations where I found out that it’s absolutely pointless, that what I thought were facts, facts actually were. And with the Ukraine thing, I haven’t even discussed it to any extent with anyone. I’m mostly observing it. And yeah, even in talks with people when the topic arises, I give them basically a lot of leeway or as much leeway as they want.
So the differences in perception don’t irritate me as much or almost not at all, except for the fact that I observe how universal this one view is. But I even know a person who has fled from Ukraine with his family, with his wife and two children, and I actually met him on Monday, two days ago. And I’m helping him to set up his new life here in Germany, and we touched the topic briefly and I can absolutely understand where he is coming from. And I even didn’t make the slightest attempt to just, let’s say, hint that I might have a little more understanding for the Russians than the Ukrainians have, because I understand where he is coming from and that my understanding is more or less arbitrary anyway. It’s just an understanding that I prefer more.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct. And your, your perception is based on your experience. You are not experiencing what the other individual is experiencing.
MARKUS: Of course. It’s like I said, the whole Ukraine event is sufficiently far away so that I could, can observe it in a relaxed manner. Quite different with… with the pandemic thing, where when our government made a decision I had the perception that it would affect me directly or would directly take away my freedoms or whatever. So it’s easier if you observe something that doesn’t affect you.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct.
MARKUS: And I’m totally aware that if you had been living in Kiev and bought an apartment and had to flee from there, your view is definitely more affected of the whole thing than mine.
ELIAS: Yes, or affected in a different capacity.
MARKUS: And but even if someone from Germany who is equally not affected, if they use different kinds of information or put their focus on different things or their importance on different things, because perception is always a filtering mechanism, you’re never… or it’s one of my new insights or new perceptions—
ELIAS: Correct. It is.
MARKUS: You can’t perceive all the information, so you’re automatically going to filter.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: So, so it’s just a question which—
ELIAS: You’re going to—
MARKUS: — subset. Yeah?
ELIAS: You’re going to filter in relation to what you’re paying attention to and what your experiences are.
MARKUS: Or what your experiences were, or what your beliefs are already. And you tend to go in the direction of ingesting the information that goes along with your beliefs, whatever that is.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct. And—
MARKUS: But since I had a Russian focus, or not just one, I mean a bunch of them, and I’m not so much aware of Ukrainian focuses although there are probably some also, I have tendency to like, let’s say to like the Russians a bit more than my German contemporaries like right now.
ELIAS: I understand. And in that once again, your perception, which creates your reality, is very influenced by your experiences and your experiences are influenced by what you pay attention to. Therefore with those two factors, that definitely colors your perception of any subject.
Now; that doesn’t mean that your perception can’t change, and it doesn’t mean that your perception is absolute. But it does mean that regardless of those two factors, your perception is your reality at any given point.
MARKUS: Mm-hm. Yeah. I mean, I live in it. I live in this (Elias laughs) reality that I create from my perception. But as we or as I’ve said before, this is basically my new understanding of reality, that it’s something deeply personal and that reality has nothing to do with facts.
ELIAS: Precisely. Very—
MARKUS: Or it’s just based on, very little on facts. It’s like basically a pyramid being set on its head, like (Elias laughs) the facts you’re basing the reality on is the tip and then all the rest is self-made.
ELIAS: Yes. I agree. I would say that this is quite impressive, my friend. This is quite an impressive expression and direction of – and display of – a new self-awareness.
MARKUS: It certainly feels like that.
ELIAS: It IS. And I would be tremendously acknowledging of you, because it’s definitely a significant step farther and deeper into self-awareness. Which is tremendous.
MARKUS: Thank you.
ELIAS: You are exceptionally welcome.
MARKUS: It… Well, it’s a gradual process, so… And then there’s… Though it’s like, I had this experience with learning other things also. It’s like these little landslide progresses and then it plateaus, and the same time it’s a little lesser progress, let’s say, for some time and then this builds up the pressure for the next or builds up the foundation for the next landslide or breakthrough that within a short time takes you yet a little, or more than a little further. And then you’re on this next plateau which you explore where you’re now. And I have absolutely no doubt that I will have more of those breakthroughs and I will look back and I will say, “Oh, I thought there were just so few layers and now I see…” (Elias laughs) whatever I will see then. I don’t know. I couldn’t predict this one either.
ELIAS: I would say I very, very much agree my friend. And (chuckles) I would say that that in itself is a tremendous awareness, that you know that whatever it is that you’re expressing now, and however much you are perceiving now, how much you know, at the next climb and plateau you will be expressing astonishment that you thought you knew, and now you know more. (Laughs) THAT is the wonderment of consciousness: continuously expanding, continuously folding in and in that, continuously creating new.
MARKUS: It was interesting that you’re mentioning this now, because I heard a snippet from a session with Lyla where you were also using the term “folding of consciousness.” And I even had that term on my backburner or wish list for many, many, many sessions because you were using it. Maybe even minor. I was reading it somewhere and I think I’m now even… have an idea of what that means. Like that the expansion doesn’t necessarily need to go further outward, but it’s just like it can, as an analogy, cover the same area but have more detail in it, like even if you paint a picture on a canvas, it can have less detail and you can add details to that picture ad infinitum. So even though the canvas doesn’t get larger, there’s more in it. And I think this is what the folding of consciousness refers to.
ELIAS: I agree. Yes it does, and in that, it is another aspect of creating new. And what is important in that, my friend, is that the creating new is always being expressed. Always. And it isn’t simply that new is being created with the discovery of geniuses or that new is being expressed with something that has never been expressed before. New is always being expressed. And in that, it’s being expressed in variations. That it can be something that has been expressed before or that has been explored before, but it may be something that is being explored again from a different angle, and that makes it new.
And it doesn’t only happen in relation to non-physical. That there would be no point in generating any type of physical dimension if there wasn’t new being expressed with them also. If there was nothing to be discovered and explored in physical dimensions, there wouldn’t be any physical dimensions. But there is always something new to be explored in physical dimensions, because every being in those physical dimensions is unique and different. And just as you are discovering now in relation to perception and the differences that are expressed, that is a significant part of what creates new. (Pause) All of those differences.
Which, as you are expanding self-awareness, you begin to realize the value of all those differences rather than them being a threat, but that they are valuable because that is what is creating new continuously.
MARKUS: I think it would be a little exaggeration if I would say I can go all the way from threat to value. (Elias laughs) It’s not that I, let’s say it’s not that I fully appreciate already any difference but it’s already good if I’m in the neutral and I can say well, it’s your view. I don’t have, I don’t fully appreciate it but I don’t… It’s not a threat and I don’t condemn it either. So that’s quite some progress, and it will be interesting—
ELIAS: I must agree. Yes.
MARKUS: — to come to the point where I would actually be able to, let’s say, appreciate even most of the differences I encounter. (Pause)
ELIAS: But I would say you are on your way.
MARKUS: I’m certainly. I’m certainly.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Which is tremendous. And I would also say quite exciting.
MARKUS: Yeah. I’m just trying to find my way around, let’s say.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Not quite in the direction of the excitement yet. (Laughs)
MARKUS: No. (Both laugh) Not even in the direction of the fun yet, but that may be also aspect of personality thing, because I have, let’s say more like a somber tone to my personality. So the excitement and the fun is (sighs)… are not very common. (Elias chuckles) They exist. I mean, we had the discussion or we had the experiences with the squirrels and summer and—
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: — everything, and we’re just coming here out of the last throes of at least the current phase of this whole pandemic measures, treatment thing, so I’m kind of a bit exhausted. But I think this will be turning around with spring or so.
ELIAS: I would agree with that. (Chuckles) And I would express that you may have some somber tones, my friend, but I also know that you, that humor and fun does not escape you. (Chuckles)
MARKUS: Ah! That is true. That is true. (Elias chuckles) Just in some… when the energy goes one direction, it’s a bit harder to access the other forms of energy. (Pause) But…
ELIAS: And what of your squirrels?
MARKUS: Ah, actually I had been there during… One of the smaller but interesting things about my brush with the virus, because I made even the testing official so technically I would have been required to quarantine, and I ignored that mostly, I just did it in a way that made sense to me. And so I took the opportunity to go to the cemetery, and there are only a few squirrels left. I mean, I had no idea what to expect after the winter so I’m not sure if only a few survived or if they moved elsewhere or what it is that squirrels do through the winter. And those who were there, I think only one had the… had learned that humans are food or bring food. (Elias chuckles) So some just run away. But instead, I had a few interactions with birds.
ELIAS: Ah!
MARKUS: Which… It’s kind of also interesting because I had made a painting of a bird, a small bird, and so when looking for squirrels, it occurred to me that I was kind of, again, focused on finding squirrels and which filtered other things like hearing the birds or looking upwards and seeing them sitting in trees or flying towards trees or those things. And I interacted with a few jaybirds again, which is a type of bird which I like. I mean, I had small interactions with them last year already and they struck me as very observing and smart. And I noticed that they were watching me from a small distance, because they probably remembered that humans have a tendency, or some humans have a tendency to throw nuts onto the walkway. And so I fed a few of them and one even like… one even kind of impersonated a squirrel, because (Elias laughs) he dug in all his nuts. (Elias laughs) And so with a blue— they are European jays, jaybirds, so they look a bit different with this light brown and I especially like the small blue streaks at the end of the feathers, and I associate these birds with you so I am sure there was a bit of Elias in there too.
ELIAS: (Chuckles) I would say that even THAT is a significant change, that rather than only paying attention to the squirrels, that you began looking around and seeing more of the entire scene than only one aspect of it.
MARKUS: Yeah, and basically noticing a species that is paying attention much to their environment also.
ELIAS: Yes. (Chuckles)
MARKUS: And they—
ELIAS: They’re paying attention—
MARKUS: Yeah?
ELIAS: — to you, even if you aren’t paying attention to them.
MARKUS: Yeah, it sounded like, it made this impression, yeah. (Elias chuckles) And while the squirrels even last year sometimes they were, well they were what they are. They are squirrels, so they are distracted easily and they, I think they have a poor sense of vision but acute smell. We already mentioned that. And these birds are quite different. They observe keenly from a distance and I think they see, and it’s very elegant to see when they fly down from the tree onto the walkway and land there, right near where this bit of nut’s lying. So I can’t complain.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Now; in this, you expressed that you had made a decision to be working less. And what influenced that? Other than being tired.
MARKUS: Well the tiredness brought or contributed to that, but what also contributed to that is a session which you had with Nuno (Lystell) last year, where you were talking about money and saving money and he was even speaking about being stingy, not… like spending less money than he makes. And you were talking about you save so you don’t have to work, and then what you do is to work more to save more. And this was, what Nuno described, was pretty similar to how I approach money. And this was, this was something that I had also on the back burner, like that influenced me a little.
And another aspect is that I wasn’t very much productive a lot of the time when I had been in the office, so I figured I might as well not stay there. Like during the pandemic I spent a lot of time just sitting there reading stuff on the internet about the pandemic, so I didn’t even quote “make money” during that time, and that was certainly an aspect.
One aspect was that I wanted to have more time for painting, which I now have and I don’t do painting, but (Elias laughs) I mean obviously at least the idea or this little part of the motivation did the trick in making me decide that. So then there’s summer, and I want to spend… it’s a time where I typically work less anyway, although typically more than I now decided to work. And it’s… I think time.
Yeah, well there’s one aspect. I have, six years ago I already acquired a symptom with my eye where I have an irregularity at the back of the eye. I don’t know the English word. It’s basically the area where the nerves are which take the optical or the light impressions. So when I look at things now, I see… like if I see, in some areas of my vision when I see, look at something that’s a straight line, like tiles in the bathroom, I actually see wiggly lines. So it’s like if you project a picture onto a blanket and the blanket isn’t hanging straight, then the picture will be kind of distorted.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: Different kind of, these distortions in the left and the right eye. Which on one hand had been very, very valuable in making me understand perception because despite these effects in the eye, like when I close one eye and look at a straight line and I see the wiggly line instead, or I close the other eye and the other eye does the wiggly thing a little different, most of the time in my head I produced the reality of straight lines. And this alone was a, is an impressive step in realizing that my reality of having a bathroom with straight tiles is not coming directly from my vision. Like it’s… what I experience is not exactly what I observe.
ELIAS: Correct, or rather I would say it’s not necessarily that your experience is not that, but that what you’re inputting from your senses, you are not expressing that in the absolute manner that you would otherwise. Because sense input is your most absolute information input, but you are taking in that sense input visually but you are readjusting it in relation to what you accept in what you know.
MARKUS: Yeah. Right. It’s like it’s being processed. It’s like you have some kind of input and it’s being processed into something that is different but not precisely based on the input. And I think this is true for basically everybody. It’s… You just need an experience like this to be more, or I, for me, it made me aware that there is another layer like this, a bare input layer, and then the processed layer of what I know and then this create the reality of… that’s more based on what I know. But this visual thing makes, this kind of extra processing that’s now necessary, makes it harder for me to read, which is a bit inconvenient for my job as a programmer.
ELIAS: Ah.
MARKUS: So typically I’m also… And then I think, I’m not really sure but I think there may have been, let’s say a deterioration or an intensification of this effect through the last year. So let’s say it’s harder or it requires more, yeah, processing, mental effort, brain power, whatever I may call it, to do or to perform the same kind of work. And I just can afford to do less and not come from the office at the end of the day being completely wasted. So this is part of the experiment.
ELIAS: Very well. And in this, how comfortable are you with this choice?
MARKUS: Oh, so far I like it.
ELIAS: Excellent.
MARKUS: So far I like it a lot. I mean, so far I’m still not sure where this tiredness is coming from, but as I’m sleeping now half of the time that I would otherwise work, but I have no qualms about it.
ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent.
MARKUS: And I will see how it works. I mean, I’m flexible. If someone arrives—
ELIAS: The reason that I asked—
MARKUS: Okay.
ELIAS: — is because many times individuals may perceive themselves to be somewhat of a victim if they are perceiving that they’re forced to be making a particular choice, in a manner of speaking.
MARKUS: No, I don’t think it’s like if you’re forced to retire and not know what to do with your day. So… I still have, I still have my job. If I want to do more, I can do more. It’s like it’s given me additional freedom.
ELIAS: Excellent. I would say congratulations.
MARKUS: Thank you. (Elias chuckles) I notice that we’re close to the end, but I have one more question.
(The timer for the end of the session rings)
MARKUS: It’s with all my successes and insights and whatsoever, I have one body symptom that I can’t just fully understand, and that’s on the skin on my lower legs, I have some, well I can only say some symptom, because I don’t know what it is. It’s getting some reddish expanding areas, which… which at times are itching a little. And I had it last year already and back then, it pretty much like coincided with moments of irritation, when I got irritated about the pandemic. I have tried to treat with antifungal cream. I don’t think it’s… how do you call it? Yeah, I don’t know. It’s got kind of maybe an inflammation, maybe an autoimmune response, and it’s like the skin area just on the lower legs. And while I thought last year it was related to those kind of irritations that came along with something that the government did, it was a measure, it did even retreat for some time or was almost gone. But it now came back and I can’t, just can’t decipher the imagery behind it.
ELIAS: And have you assessed the time framework? Is it the same time framework as last year or is it different?
MARKUS: Ah that, that… It might be the same time framework. It was certainly… It’s even, on some days it doesn’t bother me, so I just put some cream on it because the skin is a bit dry and there’s an extra layer of skin that’s sometimes… peels off in small bits. So I thought a little (inaudible) or oil might work. So I bought a cream-based olive oil, which it did dampen the symptoms most of the time. But even the last few days, they, it kind of increased. But I couldn’t, at least I couldn’t make a connection to anything that I’m doing, let’s say mentally or that… I mean, I would interpret skin problems, with skin is the interface between me and the outer world and if there’s an autoimmune reaction, it’s something I’m producing like aggression or defense against a perceived threat in the outer world that I… that quote “isn’t there.” But I can’t, can’t find that within me. So I’m puzzled.
ELIAS: What I would suggest is that you experiment with a type of cream in relation to allergies.
MARKUS: Okay.
ELIAS: Remember what allergies are. Allergies are the body reacting to something that you’re uncomfortable with or something you don’t like, but you might not necessarily be aware objectively of what that is. Therefore first of all, I would encourage you to be incorporating a type of cream that is used for allergies.
MARKUS: Okay.
ELIAS: And/or you can use some type of cream that is simply for moisturizing and then incorporate some type of allergy tablet.
MARKUS: Okay.
ELIAS: And in that, then you can be evaluating what is it that is an outside source that your body is expressing a reaction to. And in that, because you are having a very specific reaction – because you are, you’re having a specific reaction in relation to a specific area of your body. It’s not all over your entire body.
MARKUS: No.
ELIAS: Therefore in that, it would be something that you can evaluate what is that part of your body coming into contact with, that it’s reacting to.
MARKUS: Okay. Hm. Okay.
ELIAS: There is something that your body is reacting to.
MARKUS: Mm-hm. Okay. That gives me some things to work with.
ELIAS: Very well.
MARKUS: Thank you very much.
ELIAS: You are very welcome. I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting, my friend, as always, in great anticipation of another stimulating conversation—
MARKUS: Me too.
ELIAS: — and more of your accomplishments, which are significant, my friend.
MARKUS: Thank you very much, and thank you for your contribution to it.
ELIAS: (Laughs) You are very welcome. In tremendous love and great encouragement, as always, my dear friend, au revoir.
MARKUS: Bye-bye, my friend.
(Elias departs after 1 hour 37 minutes)
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