Looking for the Childhood Trauma Causing an Unwanted Manifestation
Topics:
“Attempting to Uncover a Second Trauma”
“When the Tapping Exercise Is Successful”
“The Facilitator’s Job”
Wednesday, March 16, 2022 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jonathan (Sobini)
ELIAS: Good morning!
JONATHAN: Good morning, Elias.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And how shall we begin, my friend?
JONATHAN: I’d like to begin kind of where we left off, talking about my second trauma. And I’ve got a little more clarity on that. First, I’d like to validate some of that with you if that’s okay. Basically in a nutshell, it was my mom was quite connected with the Catholic priest at that time and she, while being married to my dad, was having kind of an affair with him. And it was quite traumatic and complicated, and she basically felt like she was going to burn in hell for it, so to speak. And she brought those emotions home with her, and you know, me being a young child at the time, just an infant – well, I guess anywhere from five months to nine months – I didn’t see myself as separate from her. And I was taking on some of that as well, and feeling responsible for stopping that. And I even tried to stop that by stopping my bowels from moving. It was sort of something I did to try and help the situation from my vantage point. And at one point, he, the priest, even raped my mother, just to add to that traumatic experience. So, would you validate that that’s… that happened? And that I’m on the right track with that?
ELIAS: Before I respond to this, let me ask you how much of this have you pulled from your own memory? Or from what your mother has shared with you?
JONATHAN: Very, very little, Elias. The only… When I had that session, what came from my own memory was just I had this little trigger when I was contemplating the church. And I went through my baby books to see, because you had said to look when this constipation had started. And I went to my baby books, and I saw that I was around eight months old. And then I just had the impression to look into the priest at that time. And I couldn’t find anything when I searched him on the internet, but I did see a picture of him in one of my baby books and it didn’t bring, didn’t seem to trigger much emotion in me. And so… And I spent a least a week trying to kind of meditate on what would come up in details, and not much came up. From my mom, nothing was shared, Elias, other than I noticed she had a love for those Harlequin novels and those, you know, those romance books. But that would have been my only clue.
ELIAS: (Pause) First of all, what I would say is that your mother had a significant relationship with her priest. Was she having an affair with him? You could express that. It’s somewhat of a stretch, but you could express that in that they did have a relationship together.
Now; did they engage in sexual activity together? No.
JONATHAN: Ah. So she—
ELIAS: Now; also let me say to you that a small one that is an infant, it’s not that you’re not creating your reality. You are, but an infant doesn’t take on responsibility for a parent. They don’t understand that yet. They don’t have enough objective awareness of the situation or the reality of the relationship to engage an action such as that.
Now; I would say that by the time a small one reaches an age of approximately, depending on the individual, it might be four to five years of age, and if there are significant actions that are happening in the home that that small one is privy to, that they actually see, they might move in that direction at that age.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: To a degree. Not a tremendous degree, but they might begin to move in that type of a direction at that age, but only if they are privy to some type of distress in relation to the parents. Therefore, they would have to be witnessing some expressions themselves. They don’t have enough of an objective, conceptual expression to be that abstract at very young ages.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: That is something that would be a development of a construct, and small ones don’t generate constructs yet. They don’t have a developed enough objective awareness of their relationships and of their environment to express in that type of an abstract capacity, unless they are actually experiencing something or witnessing something.
JONATHAN: Okay. So I would have witnessed something?
ELIAS: You would have had to have witnessed something, which you didn’t.
JONATHAN: So then, that didn’t cause the trauma?
ELIAS: And even if you had witnessed something, at an age under the age of four, if you had directly witnessed something, you wouldn’t be taking personal responsibility for that and you wouldn’t be attempting to take responsibility for a parent. That’s much, much, much too abstract and requires much more of a developed objective awareness. And a small one that is under the age of four doesn’t have that yet.
JONATHAN: Yeah. Well, I was more thinking in terms of the baby wouldn’t see himself as separate from the mother, so—
ELIAS: That I agree.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: But to a degree. To a degree. That when the infant is with the mother, you are correct that when they are in physical proximity with each other, the infant for the most part doesn’t perceive themself to be separate from the mother. When they are not in physical proximity to each other, this is the time in which the infant is developing some aspect of a sense of self. It’s very rudimentary, but they are beginning to develop some sense of self that is independent from the mother.
JONATHAN: Right. So Elias, can I come back to the actual part that created the trauma? Was that because I was feeling as though it was happening to me, even though it was happening to my mother? Or is this just really distorted, this whole…?
ELIAS: I would say there is a considerable amount of distortion, because you wouldn’t be generating a perception that it was happening to you at that young of an age, even if you were present during some action – but you weren’t.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: And in addition to that, that also presupposes that she was engaging a sexual affair with this individual, which she wasn’t.
JONATHAN: Okay. So are these—
ELIAS: Therefore, in that, I would say, I would say that it is understandable and it’s easy to interpret energetically that some activity such as that might have been occurring, when an individual is tapping into an energy of someone else. Therefore, when an individual may be tapping into the energy of your mother, then it could be understandable and somewhat easy to interpret the relationship in that manner, because there was definitely a factor of intimacy.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: And it’s easy to translate the idea and the information of intimacy into sexual experiences, even if that hasn’t actually occurred.
JONATHAN: Okay. And then what about the rape aspect of it?
ELIAS: No. There was no sexual interaction between these individuals.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: Now; once again, if I am looking into a situation and understanding what an individual can be interpreting from an energetic standpoint – because the individual isn’t actually interacting with your mother, therefore receiving direct information. It’s energetic information. And in that, there is room for misunderstanding.
Now; in that, I would say that that also is somewhat understandable, because there was a point in which your mother distanced herself to a degree, or distanced herself in relation to that intimacy of the relationship with this individual, because she felt betrayed.
Now; what I would say in that is, she felt betrayed because this individual was not physically attracted to her.
JONATHAN: Oh. Okay.
ELIAS: Which for some people, especially if they feel an intimate connection with someone, they do translate some of that into a sexual energy. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they act on that.
JONATHAN: Right.
ELIAS: But then if the individual is not reciprocating an attraction, that can be perceived as a betrayal. And in that, I would say that that was correct, and that may be what the other individual was tapping into, which is understandable because it would be questioned why would someone have such a strong reaction and express such a significant betrayal if there wasn’t actually some type of physical interaction? But there doesn’t have to be a physical interaction to generate a significant expression of betrayal. And in that, I would say that I can understand how that could be interpreted in that manner.
JONATHAN: Elias, how does this relate to trauma in me at that age?
ELIAS: It doesn’t.
JONATHAN: It doesn’t. Okay. So that would explain why when I was doing the tapping exercise, I was having a really hard time pulling out those memories.
ELIAS: Now; let me express to you that the tapping will not be successful if there isn’t actually a significant trauma.
JONATHAN: Right.
ELIAS: That exercise is only successful when there actually is a significant trauma. And if there isn’t, it won’t be successful. And in that, I would say that this is significant, my friend, because it is a matter of the facilitator genuinely paying attention to what you are saying and doing and feeling. It is not for the facilitator to offer any information about your experience. Their job is to listen.
JONATHAN: Right.
ELIAS: Their job is to direct you to a safe place at the appropriate time. Their job is to listen and to redirect you back to the experience at different points to allow you to recognize how the charge of the experience is lessening. But in that, their job is not to give you any information. Their job is to simply express repeating back to you what YOU have expressed to them.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: Therefore, this is the reason that when I am engaging with an individual I express to them that one of two factors must be present in relation to this interaction and this exercise. In that, either the individual has repeated experiences in which they express an inappropriate, for the situation and time, feeling, therefore meaning that they repeatedly have a more extreme reaction and more intense feelings to certain situations than would be what you would term to be normal, or – and don’t have necessarily a memory, but they have a repeat of feeling reaction to different expressions – or they have a memory but no feeling.
JONATHAN: So right now, right now with me, Elias, I’m noticing these repeat feelings that… I mean, I’m not generating a memory, but it’s a bit unusual because I’m, you know, I’m making some progress with not following feelings, but they… they don’t seem to be related to the now. Do you know what I’m talking about?
ELIAS: Yes. THAT, now that would be an indicator. And in that, then it would be a matter of exploring those feelings and when they are expressed. What is the pattern associated with the reaction? And in that, then moving through a process of identifying the time that it happens, the situations that happen, and in that, whether it is the same intensity of the feeling each time or does it vary? And in that, beginning to move in a direction of identifying that commonality and that pattern. In that, then eventually the individual does begin to connect with a memory.
In this, what I would say is when an individual has a feeling and they react in different situations, I generally will instruct that individual to pay attention to the pattern of when they have this response, when they have this reaction, and what the intensity of it is. Then I will instruct the individual when they have that reaction to be thinking about what does that reaction mean to them. Not to try and find the memory yet, but why they are having that reaction because of what it means to them. As an example, an individual may have a reaction to a certain expression. Let us say that an individual has a reaction and freezes every time they encounter someone that is raising their voice.
Now; in that, it would be unproductive and distortive to suggest to the individual or to plant the suggestion that the reason that they are freezing every time someone raises their voice to them is because they have been experiencing tremendous yelling as a child, that their parents were yelling tremendously while they were a child. That may not be true.
JONATHAN: Right.
ELIAS: Therefore, in that, what IS significant is what does that mean to the individual? Why are they freezing? Because they are being threatened. But what’s threatening them? When another individual is yelling, whether it’s simply yelling or raising their voice in general or whether it is directed at them, what is the individual actually feeling? And what automatic associations are they playing in their head? THAT is more accurate. They may not have been exposed to anyone yelling when they were a child.
JONATHAN: Right.
ELIAS: But they may have developed an association that yelling is a validation to them about something they believe about themself.
[The timer for the end of the session rings]
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: That they are stupid or that they are defective or that they are doing something wrong. In that, this is an assessment that they make about themself that is likely based upon experiences that they had as a child and may be associated with traumatic experiences as a child, but they may not have anything to do with the expression of yelling. That is what the person themself developed as an association that validates them in relation to the perception of something that they discount themselves with.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: That may be directly associated with trauma and what they were told as a child, but the trigger, the yelling, is not something that is literal.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: That is the reason that when someone has the feelings as a reaction but they don’t have the memory, they don’t have a recall of a memory, it is ultimately important for the facilitator not to suggest anything.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: But for them to simply listen and encourage you to continue to explore why you’re reacting in the manner that you are.
JONATHAN: So, last question, Elias. Those twinges that I get that you say will… you know, are clues to lead to this trauma. I know we called it shaking, but it’s… it’s like a one-time sort of a… I don’t know. Like a tension kind of a… It reminds me of like if you were to kind of get an icky feeling down your back and kind of tense up like that. But that’s what we were talking about when we talked about shaking. You were referring to that same sensation that—
ELIAS: Yes.
JONATHAN: Okay. Good. I just wanted to make sure—
ELIAS: That, yes, that would be correct. And the closer you come to the memory, the more pronounced the reaction of the body will be. Which can, doesn’t always but can lead to significant shaking or teeth chattering, but it doesn’t always lead to that. It can simply lead to uncontrollable weeping.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: And a tremendous tension in the body in which some people experience such tension in their body that their extremities such as their fingers and their toes begin to go numb.
JONATHAN: Right. Okay, Elias. Wow, this session went fast. (Both chuckle)
ELIAS: I would say that we can continue to explore, my friend. What I would encourage you to do is to definitely think about these reactions that you have, and the feelings. And pay attention to them differently at this point. When you pay attention to it, if it actually happens, if you have a moment in which you experience that trigger, pay attention to whether you have a thought attached to it. And it may be very brief. It may be very quick and very brief. It may not be that you’re actually thinking about something. You might actually not be thinking at all. You might, in your terms, be blank. But you might have a very quick thought which is a tremendous clue, because that has to do with the association.
JONATHAN: Oh. Okay. This is kind of fun.
ELIAS: Because in that, when you can’t recall a memory, remember: all memories have an association with them. You make an association with EVERY memory. Whether it’s good or bad or neutral, you make an association with every memory. Therefore, even if you can’t recall a memory, if you can identify even one thought, that is a clue to the association and the association is attached to the memory. Therefore, that is your beginning point.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: What I would say to you my friend is, this is your opportunity to be Sherlock Holmes with yourself.
JONATHAN: (Laughs) Yeah. That’s why I said it’s kind of fun. (Both laugh) That’s the fun aspect. Okay.
ELIAS: In which you can be sleuthing and discovering what is the thought that happens when you have that reaction.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: What I would also say to you is, another piece in this, I’m aware that what is tremendously important to you and bothersome to you is this physical manifestation that you have in relation to your bowels.
Now; what I would say to you is, this is another area that you can be sleuthing in. And how you can do that is, whenever you are experiencing difficulty with your bowels – therefore this should give you plenty of opportunities—
JONATHAN: (Laughs) Right.
ELIAS: — do the same, do the same thing. Notice what is your most immediate thought, other than you wish this would go away.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: What is your most immediate thought AND also pay attention to what do you think about, even briefly, during that time framework?
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: These are clues in relation to the associations.
JONATHAN: Yeah.
ELIAS: From that, we can begin to attach time frames.
JONATHAN: Okay. Awesome. Thank you, Elias.
ELIAS: You are very welcome, my friend. I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting, and whether you have any ideas at that time as to what you may be presenting to yourself in associations.
JONATHAN: Sounds good.
ELIAS: And don’t fret if you don’t identify an association. You don’t have to. Simply note what your thinking is.
JONATHAN: Okay.
ELIAS: Very well. I express tremendous encouragement to you, my friend, and I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting.
JONATHAN: Me too.
ELIAS: In excellent love to you and dear affection, and in great friendship as always, au revoir.
JONATHAN: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 40 minutes)
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