Observing the Pandemic: The Train Wreck Analogy; Accepting your OWN Difference and Uniqueness
Topics:
“Observing the Pandemic: The Train Wreck Analogy”
“The Perspective of Your Difference”
“Differences, Guidelines, Cooperation and Not Following Feelings: ALL of This Is ALL Connected”
Wednesday, December 15, 2021 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Markus (Markus)
“And I would say in that, my friend, that this is another important point, is that in recognizing your differences, it’s also important that you acknowledge those differences and that you can recognize that this is all a part of the process of expanding, of expanding your awareness, because you are moving in the direction of seeing your own differences, and then being able to accept those differences and being able to then move in the next step of beyond accepting your differences, recognizing that your differences are guided by your guidelines, and that that is more than acceptable, and in that, it simply is not applicable to anyone else.
“And what THAT does – you see, it’s all interconnected – is THAT moves you into the next step, which is learning how to move in the expressions of cooperation – not acquiescing, not compromising, not accommodating, but cooperation. And in this, then you can genuinely simplify, my friend, and look at ANY situation and ANY expression and simply remind yourself of two words: guidelines and cooperation, and asking yourself if something is bothersome to you, or you are presenting a significant difference to yourself, then what are you presenting? Are you presenting a guideline? Or are you presenting a situation for cooperation?”
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
MARKUS: Good nowness, my friend.
ELIAS: (Laughs) And what shall we discuss?
MARKUS: I would like to continue our conversation, our shooting the breeze (Elias laughs) from last time, because I tremendously enjoyed the last conversation and I basically immediately booked a continuation session. So this time, naturally because of the short interval between the two sessions, there hasn’t been happening that much, but I still have a topic left from last time.
ELIAS: Ah!
MARKUS: And a few topics that happened in between. Nothing of importance, but let’s just talk and see where this leads to. Or whatever I say or even if I don’t say, feel free to steer the conversation into any area you find interesting for yourself or for myself or of mutual interest.
ELIAS: Very well.
MARKUS: So, let’s just start with… I’ve found I’m being still fascinated with our treatment of the pandemic here in Germany. And I’m kind of watching myself watching the pandemic, or the measures or how this plays out. And at the same time as watching myself doing that, I’m kind of wondering why I’m doing it. It’s kind of partially like watching a train wreck. It’s like from my perspective, there is so much absurdity that it’s hard to not look.
On the other hand, trying to analyze things doesn’t really have practical value because, if I take a backseat view of myself I’m hardly affected by the measures anyway. But there’s something in how this plays out that I still don’t understand or I’m still not willing to accept, or I’m actually not even sure what I’m looking at there. Because if I look at specific things, like what certain specific people do or how they arrive at their conclusions, I can see where they’re coming from and that it’s basically their reality and why they’re doing it.
But this whole stuff keeps – I think this is the best approach that I’ve found so far – keeps digging up beliefs within myself about things like about the state, about our society, about how I thought things worked as opposed to what I’m now observing, how they now appear to actually work, while I’m still aware that I’m probably merely replacing one view of the world with another view of the world within myself. And I created an interesting little entanglement of… I don’t even know of what.
ELIAS: Entanglement how?
MARKUS: It’s like in one sense I’m observing the world – not quite the world around me, like my immediate environment, but I’m still using Twitter as a tool of getting my information about the pandemic, the treatment, different views, because it offers easy access to a wide variety of views. And especially in our current time, I would say the official media, like we have semi-official, not quite state-owned but semi-official TV and radio, and most of the large media follow those. It’s one of the aspects I find surprising. It’s like when in times of war, basically everybody gets behind the government and their narrative, and even the slightest dissent is treated like treason. We are not quite there yet, but yeah.
What I’m saying is, I’m using Twitter for that, to get alternate views or alternate facts. And at the same time, most of this doesn’t really affect me personally, so I’m kind of wondering what that means within myself. Like I’m observing a world changing or my worldviews changing or my view of government even changing from a view or a belief that I had that the government operates rather professionally and in a reasonably neutral way or capacity, and now I’m seeing or observing that this is like… this view is changing, and I’m at the same time seeing myself changing this view.
And I’m wondering what this means within myself, that I look out into the world and I’m seeing kind of a different world now that is, let’s say, less professional. It’s more at times absurd in their measures. Absurd is an interesting word, because it also caught my attention and makes me wonder what absurd even means, because there’s quite certainly a judgment hidden beneath there.
I also observe myself at times reading about, let’s say, measures, which I also find in some capacity absurd, that I’m really actually laughing. If this were a movie where they depicted this pandemic and then one of the actors or the script would implement a, quote, “obviously” – although “obviously” is probably merely my perspective – useless measure, in a weird way this would make me laugh. But this is basically the real world; it does also make me laugh, but I’m also wondering what’s hidden beneath what I’m trying to conceal under this – like if I camouflage something with this laugh, like where there’s a situation where people have a nervous laugh to camouflage insecurity.
And I’ve been looking at myself here, and sometimes it’s almost a delightful laugh because it’s surprisingly absurd. If this would be a Monty Python sketch it would be awesome, but it’s the real world and I’m not quite sure if I’m missing something within myself or if I should just enjoy it.
So this is a variety of approaches to what’s happening there, which isn’t quite giving me a clear view of myself. I’m primarily looking at myself; I’m not so much interested in explanations of what the world is doing or why the leaders are doing it. It’s just my reaction versus what I’m observing, or where I could see some improvement or benefit or… So, I would like to hear what you have to say.
ELIAS: What is significant in all of this, I would say, for you and for other people also, is that you’re looking at your world now from a very different perspective. And in that, you are looking at it from the perspective of your difference. Because the first piece that I would say to you is that although this is a global shift, and although there are many different avenues in which people are giving themselves information about this shift, and that is becoming more and more and more well known and mainstream, so to speak, the people that give themselves information in relation to what I express are relatively few in relation to the entire world.
Now, in that, what is happening – and it isn’t only happening with that relative few that are privy to the information I express, but it’s happening actually with many, many, many, many people at this point – but what you are presenting to yourselves now is looking at your world from a very different perspective, and that perspective is considerably different because you’re looking at your difference. Not necessarily that the WORLD is different than it was before, but that your perception of it is changing and is different because you’re looking at your own difference of how you think, how you move, how you make choices.
In this, I would also say that this is part of why you keep watching the government and what they’re doing, because before, you had the perception of yourself that you were part of that whole – which you are, but you had a very different perception of how you were part of that whole, and that you may not have been a physical part of the actual government itself but you are part of your country and you are part of your culture, and your government is a part of that. And as you expressed, in previous time frameworks, or if you were within a time of war, you would rally around your country. And in that, the reason you do that is because you are part of it. And you express that loyalty to it and you identify yourself, part of your identity itself is connected to – or it has been connected to – your culture, your country, to your government.
And in that, you also expressed that you keep watching because it’s similar to observing a train wreck, and that’s an excellent analogy. Why are people drawn to watch a train wreck, or any type of wreck? Why would people be drawn to watching a plane crash, or a train derailment, anything that is this type of disastrous expression? Why do you think people can’t turn away from that?
MARKUS: My initial reaction or answer to that would be because it’s something new. It’s something unseen that hasn’t been observed before and it’s stimulating. I’m finding this even when I come back to Twitter more than I, quote, “think I should,” because sometimes when I’m bored I’m just looking there for some sense of almost entertainment, like seeing what newly ridiculous idea somebody already had now. I would say with a train wreck it’s stimulation, it’s new, it’s out of the ordinary.
ELIAS: I would say that that can be a part of it.
MARKUS: Okay.
ELIAS: But if you are actually thinking about something such as a train wreck or a plane crash, this is generally a very violent action and something that usually includes fire and death and dismemberment and twisted, broken, contorted large pieces of metal and steel that are simply unbelievable. And that’s the key, is that it is something that your senses are taking in as information that is, in a manner of speaking, incomprehensible because it seems to you to be impossible.
MARKUS: Like a challenge of the belief in the solidity of a metal structure that is almost, quote, “eternal” because as a human, without tools it’s unbelievable that you can just twist it at all in this manner?
ELIAS: Yes. Because in that, remember: Your senses are very absolute. They input information to you in a very absolute manner. This is the reason that people love magic, because it defies your senses and it confounds them. And something such as a train wreck or a plane crash is equally, in relation to your senses, impossible, and therefore it’s equally as captivating and baffling and fascinating, even, as what you think of as magic. You are equally as drawn to something such as that because you cannot comprehend it. Even though you can express logical explanations, it still appears within your perception to be incomprehensible.
And I would say that in many expressions in relation to your government, this is how you are perceiving that also. Therefore it’s fascinating, and it captivates your attention because it is incomprehensible. You don’t understand it: “How is this possible?” And in that, the more you don’t give yourself an answer of how is this possible, the more you observe it and the more fascinated you are with it.
In this, what is being emphasized in all of this is YOUR difference, because the reason that these people are making these choices and moving in these directions is because the majority of people are moving in those directions. The majority of people are not questioning what the government is doing, because they agree with it and because they are expressing in a particular direction, and in actuality, the government is what is responding. They are responding to the people, not the other way around.
And in that, that may seem incomprehensible to you and perhaps to some people that are involved with my information, and to some people that are involved with other information that is moving in the direction of objectively being more aware of shifting, but the majority of people, whether they have any inkling of shifting or not, it doesn’t matter, because they are in a direction of fear. And I have been expressing this consistently from the onset of the mass event, and what you and many other individuals are recognizing now is YOUR difference from all of these masses of people.
You have expressed repeatedly, even in this conversation but you have expressed repeatedly in SEVERAL of our conversations, that this pandemic and the situation and even the direction that the government is moving isn’t actually affecting you. And there are other people also that would express the same, that it’s not directly affecting them either. But those of you that it’s not affecting, this is the point that you’re moving to now, is beginning to see YOUR difference. You are the exceptions. You are the different individuals.
The masses, the majority of people, are moving in the directions that your governments are reflecting. If the people weren’t moving in that direction – and let me express to you, I understand that you may be expressing at times that you’re observing masses of individuals protesting and therefore moving in directions that are in opposition to what governments may be expressing; but even in that, if you are looking at the numbers of how many people are moving in the direction of protesting, but then how many people occupy your country, there are many, many, many, many more people that occupy your country than are protesting. And in that, that majority of people that live in your country, that majority of people in the world, they are the ones that are expressing in a manner that the governments are listening to and reflecting.
MARKUS: There’s one excellent word that you were using there. This is the incomprehensible-ness, because it’s… I have said multiple times in conversations with people here that, quote, “None of this makes sense,” and this basically means being unable to comprehend. I mean, I’ve recently expressed in a conversation with someone that I feel that the group… basically in our country, in Germany, we are currently split amongst vaccinated versus the unvaccinated, where the vaccinated, or let’s say the mainstream view, which of course consists of the views of millions of individual views, but the majority view says that the unvaccinated are responsible for most of the problems which we have – which in my view is a quite simplified explanation, but it’s also convenient because by taking the vaccination you put yourself into the, quote, “good” group.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: So it’s easy to be part of the good guys. And once you are there and you took it, you want the others to not get away with not taking it. And being in the, quote, “good” group gives you the moral high ground to make decisions about the, quote, “bad” group.
What’s also interesting is that amongst the unvaccinated, I’m kind of finding myself in the middle because many of the arguments of the pros and cons of the unvaccinated also make little sense to me. It’s like the other side of the coin: They are not quite different from the, quote, “other” group; they’re just using, let’s say, the same kind of thought processes or psychological processes based on a different conclusion.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: But they are also pushing against and whatever. And I find myself in a rather small group that’s, quote, “caught in the middle” who are trying to make sense of that. I know one person in particular who is basically despairing because so much of the news is contradicting, and there’s another study and there’s another expert, and there are people like me who trust certain experts, and on the TV there are other experts which have their own agenda, like they think they, quote, “represent,” quote, “Science” – capital S “Science” – and enjoy their moment of fame and their power even over the masses and over the politicians. In one way I’m grateful for what you have said before, that basically what I’m observing is how much I’ve changed.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: This is something that I was looking for, likely, an interpretation of when I look out there and I see these processes and I even see how people arrive at that point. But at the same time, what has…? I even made a note earlier today on my sheet of notes for this session that what has changed within me is like there is… I think there is an analogy where you can liken the government or the leaders to a father of a family, and you grow up and find out that your father isn’t just quite the powerful and intelligent and wise person that you thought. And the older you get and the, quote, “clearer” or more neutral your view becomes, the more you find that he’s probably a drinker who is not very smart and was cheating all the time, and basically shaving off the layers from the original view of the father or the parent as the wise and all-powerful to arrive at this more, quote, “realistic” view.
Although I’m very careful about words like realistic, because this also has an embedded judgment, like I’m seeing the world more realistically than other people. And I’m putting myself really, really under a microscope with all those little thoughts and ideas that I have, or a thought that goes through my head. Basically I’m looking at every word that I’m using within my thought or in the conversation, to see what does this really mean. [1].
What I wanted to say is, it’s sort of hard to believe this view of government or a state or federal institutions and how they work versus how I was taught they would work and what were their principles, etc. etc., and basically seeing that dismantled, like maybe in a train crash, like where a train has the passenger area where all the structural parts of the train are covered by nice surfaces and in a train wreck it all breaks apart and you see the unmitigated, quote, “ugly” structures underneath.
ELIAS: (Inaudible) Yes. All of the skeletal aspects of the structure.
MARKUS: Basically, this is how much I’ve changed within myself versus authority – or my idea of authority has changed quite a lot, and I just didn’t see that basically what I’m observing out there is merely the reflection.
And it’s very hard. I said today to someone [that] we humans are [really] not configured to go against the mainstream. I mean, this must go back… I could probably make up an explanation, like when you were back in the Stone Age, if you were part of a community and you were expelled from the community, this was like a death sentence. And I think we’re still configured in that way, that when you go against the majority you question yourself again and again. This is [where] I see many people similar to myself, even though they are not reading your material or being, quote, “shifted,” struggling with thinking, “Why is it that I’m seeing these things and nobody else is seeing them?”
ELIAS: I understand. And I would say what I was expressing, this is all a part of beginning to see the difference as you. That it’s very common and easy to move in directions in which you are looking at differences as other people, what they do; it’s THEY are different. But it’s now moving in a direction as you observe more, as you are becoming more self-aware, as you ARE scrutinizing yourself much more and paying attention to what you’re doing and how you’re evaluating, you’re beginning to move in that direction of seeing that it’s not so much about everyone else is different, it’s about your OWN difference.
And then we come to the heart of the matter of what I have been expressing for such a time framework, how important it is to move in the direction of acceptance of difference. And ultimately that is the reason, because it is a matter of being able to accept your own difference and view that as, in a manner of speaking, precious. That it’s the acknowledgment of that uniqueness, that piece that makes you different.
I would say to you that you and some – not the majority, but some – other people have somewhat of an advantage, because you can look at yourself at this point, you can see your difference and it appears to be somewhat obvious. For the majority of people, their differences aren’t so obvious, and it’s more difficult to discern. Therefore, it’s more difficult for them to look at themselves and SEE their uniqueness.
MARKUS: And value it. Because if you don’t see it, you can’t value it.
ELIAS: Correct. Correct. Your difference – and some other people’s differences – they are more obvious. You can see how you don’t move in the same direction as everyone else or as the majority of people, that you AREN’T being affected by the pandemic. Your life ISN’T being tremendously disrupted. You ARE continuing in your direction with little alteration or disruptions or inconveniences. And in that, your life is not upside down.
MARKUS: No, definitely not.
ELIAS: I would say that that is what the majority of people have been experiencing, that their life is upside down, that they are being TREMENDOUSLY affected, that everything in their life is being affected and they don’t know how to maneuver with that, and they are afraid.
And in that, you’re not afraid. You’re not moving through your daily existence in fear and dread. You’re not terrified of what might present itself to you, or coming in contact with some other individual that is presenting a significant threat to you. You don’t think about it! You go to the cemetery, you feed the squirrels, you wash your car, you –
MARKUS: I go to the supermarket, I go to work, I move through the streets.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: I don’t care.
ELIAS: You are exercising clarity. You are paying attention to you. You are doing what you usually do! The majority of people, their lives are upside down.
MARKUS: I appreciate basically the toolbox you’ve provided for me. Oh, by the way, we were talking a few sessions ago about my power driver and a super tool I bought, and I used it a couple of times now. And I enjoyed every time I’ve taken it from the box and am able to use it. And it’s similar with your tools, because (Elias laughs) when I speak to people or… Oh, this is an interesting insight... Ahhh... Okay, let me wrap this around.
What I wanted to say is, when I speak to people who have a view which is close enough to mine that I see it makes some sense to reason with them or give them pros or cons or bits of information – because there’s not so much difference that there’s a gap that is almost impossible to bridge and which isn’t worth bridging – while I’m speaking with them, I find how often I would refer to things that are total baseline behavior in my reality which come from your toolbox, like not comparing, staying in the now, not looking into the future because fear is future based, or focusing on self and not focusing on what others do. These have become self-evident for me, and just in a conversation with a, quote, “normal” person, I find how far I’ve moved from, let’s say, conventional wisdom or a conventional way of seeing the world. And that comes [around] to what I said was a nice insight, because even these conversations or these moments where I find “oh my god, I’m so far away from everybody, I’m so far out,” this also shows me how different I have become, which is what you said earlier.
ELIAS: Yes. And in that, when you can begin to see how different YOU are, how different you already were but now how different you have become, even more so, that it gives you a different perspective about the world. And therefore, you begin just as you expressed, to see the world and to see governments and people, in your perception, more realistic. And you ARE seeing them more realistically, because you’re not seeing them through the lens of what you perceived they were SUPPOSED to be.
MARKUS: Or what I believed they are.
ELIAS: Or what you believe they are. But you have stripped away that lens, and you are seeing them for what they ARE expressing.
Now, in that, then the next step is to recognize your own judgments about that, and then put THAT into perspective. Because your own judgments about that are not wrong; they are simply an expression of your guidelines, and therefore they aren’t applicable to anyone else in the world or the world at large. But – they are applicable to you, and in that, that makes them not wrong.
MARKUS: Hm. That is probably the baby-with-the-bath-water case. In many cases, when I become aware of judgments I’m basically giving other people more… I’m cutting them more slack or giving them more leeway than myself, because, let’s say, I’m holding myself accountable to different standards and I probably don’t allow myself… in some areas or in some situations I tend to downplay my own guidelines or my own preferences, like it “doesn’t matter” versus “it matters not.”
ELIAS: Ah, yes. And I would say in that, my friend, that this is another important point, is that in recognizing your differences, it’s also important that you acknowledge those differences and that you can recognize that this is all a part of the process of expanding, of expanding your awareness, because you are moving in the direction of seeing your own differences, and then being able to accept those differences and being able to then move in the next step of beyond accepting your differences, recognizing that your differences are guided by your guidelines, and that that is more than acceptable, and in that, it simply is not applicable to anyone else.
And what THAT does – you see, it’s all interconnected – is THAT moves you into the next step, which is learning how to move in the expressions of cooperation – not acquiescing, not compromising, not accommodating, but cooperation. And in this, then you can genuinely simplify, my friend, and look at ANY situation and ANY expression and simply remind yourself of two words: guidelines and cooperation, and asking yourself if something is bothersome to you, or you are presenting a significant difference to yourself, then what are you presenting? Are you presenting a guideline? Or are you presenting a situation for cooperation?
MARKUS: Hm. I mean… I appreciate your support in this, which is something I have noticed many times in our conversations. You’re leaning to the other side of the boat. When I’m, quote, “overdoing” in one direction, you usually balance the boat by going in the other direction. (Elias laughs) And questioning myself like that, or putting myself under the microscope like that automatically… or where I am sort of automatically involves questioning myself, like turning every stone or everything, which then has a temporary byproduct of maybe not accepting myself as much as would be beneficial or healthy.
But I was basically aware that the last two weeks were like, to speak in an analogy, if you renovate the house there’s an intermediate period of, quote, “chaos” or disorder. And this is part of the process of going from A to B or from B to C or whatever. This last two weeks felt a bit like this, like I’m… The measures intensified and I pay more attention to them, and looking at my own reaction in basically every step along the way or thinking about what I’m doing here, and this is kind of another renovation step which is a bit more messy than when all things are put back together.
So I believe I see what you’re doing here in helping me to get the perspective of the put-together moment again.
ELIAS: (Laughs) Congratulations.
MARKUS: Yeah. This already added considerably to my clarity in —
ELIAS: I knew that you would. (Chuckles) I have every confidence, my friend, in your ability to be moving forward and to understand what I’m expressing to you, and to be able to not only understand it but then to apply it – and I know you do.
MARKUS: Hm. And I appreciate already that you were like shining the light ahead towards the next steps, like when you said the next step would be looking at guidelines and cooperation, because this was also part of the reason for this conversation, to see [that] even though I’m basically in the middle of the renovation, I’m already thinking two steps ahead and think “Okay, when we’ve got this fixed, what will be next?” (Elias laughs) “What will the next project be?” And this is…
ELIAS: And that gives you the goal. And then, once you have the goal, then you can concentrate on the process and what you’re doing now that’s leading you in that direction.
MARKUS: I’m not sure if I understand what you just said.
ELIAS: (Laughs) You will.
MARKUS: Okay.
ELIAS: What I am expressing is that when you have information, such as the next step or the next step after that, then you have something to look forward to. You have a better understanding of what you’re doing, and therefore in that, you have a goal.
MARKUS: Hm. Like a sense of direction.
ELIAS: Yes. Yes. And then in relation to that, because you have the goal, because you have that information and you have that direction, then you are free to not be concentrating on the outcome but to be concentrating on the process.
MARKUS: Ah, yeah. Yes, I understand what you’re saying. And with every time when I say, “You’ll never get it done,” I focus a little less on the outcome, because… I mean, I even said it last time when I said this pandemic is so much fun. (Elias laughs) I mean, it’s not always fun, it’s like the renovation when everything is in disorder and dismantled, you look forward to things being put together or in the new situation again, but at the same time I know it’s the process and it will be rewarding. I’m putting myself under the microscope because I know there will something to be seen and to be found and to be understood and this will be very rewarding whenever it happens, and—
ELIAS: Yes. I very much agree.
MARKUS: The messy parts are part of the process. It gives contrasts between orderly and easygoing and a little messy and confusing, and from there the next, quote, “level” of order and the new position. It’s still, from my perspective, an awesome creation, this pandemic.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I would agree. I would definitely agree, my friend. I have expressed from the beginning of it that it has been brilliant and that all of you are brilliant in your execution of it. And what –
MARKUS: Although, as I said, those who don’t have the tools already, I mean they’re in their process and their, quote, “renovation” messy state and they will come out with their insights, but I really, really, really appreciate to be in this challenge with all the tools rather than without.
ELIAS: I understand. And I would express that yes, it can be very exciting.
MARKUS: It leads to another thing I wanted to mention. Over the last two weeks, a friend of mine made me aware of a… it’s not quite a TV series, it’s on YouTube, but it doesn’t matter, it’s like a TV production. And this is seven people going to Sweden. They are all interested in outdoors and survival, and they are going through a seven days’ challenge, each of them being allowed to take with them their clothes and seven tools or objects of their choice, and then having to live in the wilderness for seven days without support.
This is like another interconnectedness thing, because I’m seeing the pandemic also as a challenge of some sort, where I can see… I mean, I could take the vaccination and it wouldn’t be a big deal because… I don’t want it because most of the time I don’t take medication at all, so it’s for me a logical choice to not take it, but when I would be, quote, “forced” to take it because it would cause too much inconvenience, I’m sure I’m creating the outcome of that, so to take it or not take it is no big deal. So the question of how long I can avoid taking it has taken on more of a sportive challenge character, like these people. They are putting themselves into this situation voluntarily; it’s not that they are in a plane crash and forced to live in the wilderness with nothing, they just go there and see if they can do it. And basically, my current view or my current handling of the pandemic is of a similar type.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: So, it’s also not a surprise that I’m presenting myself with a series with people who go through a challenge while I am in this kind of, quote, “challenge,” and they are even able to pick their tools, like a sleeping bag or something to make fire with or a knife or a fishing kit or whatever they choose to be their tools to master this challenge. I found this a very nice kind of analogy to what I’m currently doing or how I’m perceiving this pandemic. Even presenting this to me made me understand more what I’m doing here or even giving me more of a motivation to try to move along this way that I have now decided to pursue through the pandemic.
ELIAS: I understand. You have presented to yourself your own metaphor of survival and what tools that you will use but making it a game. That it’s a choice, it isn’t ACTUAL survival, it is a GAME of survival. And—
MARKUS: Yeah, they can basically call for help every time they want, so it’s like, yeah…
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: Putting yourself in a challenge, and this is the same as with me.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: Another analogy or another parallel that I’m drawing with this pandemic – I mentioned this last time also – is the way here in Germany at least, or in Germany and Austria, which is probably also not a coincidence that it’s those two countries, the way the unvaccinated are seen must be very similar to the early stages of the World War II, of the Nazis. Because I even heard an interview from an actual Holocaust survivor who was drawing these parallels with the early measures against the Jews in the late ‘20s and early ‘30s, like when they were banned from certain stores or banned from certain activities step by step by step. If this current situation was based on an element or trait that couldn’t be changed, like going through vaccination, if this was based on something you can’t change like where you come from or your religion or even your skin color, I would be very worried at the moment because these processes I’m seeing are rather similar to what happened back then. But since this time it is merely the question of getting a vaccine or two, I can afford to approach it in this playful manner because I can just basically take the exit and be on the safe side.
ELIAS: I understand, yes. And in that, this is what I have expressed to many individuals, is that I understand the automatic association; I also express that that’s not an accident either, and that it is important for people to pay attention to history and to not repeat it.
MARKUS: Yes, they say it does repeat itself but it rhymes, and this is –
ELIAS: But that was also a different situation, as you expressed. And in this, I would say that you have moved in directions in this past eighty years, let us say, in which it would be much more difficult to actually repeat that part of history because people are expressing in directions of being watchdogs.
MARKUS: Yeah, but It’s also interesting how the psychological or societal mechanisms are still the same, and how easy it is if you’re in a difficult situation to blame a minority group.
ELIAS: Very much so. Yes.
MARKUS: And once you’re there… Here in Germany they have a really ingenious argument; it’s easy to understand. It blames a clearly marked group, the group is a minority, apparently it would be easy for the group to fix the problem and it’s just not there, it’s their stubbornness or their unwillingness to bring their part of responsibility to the table for everyone. And it falls into place from the argument’s standpoint so cleanly that it’s so easy for a person to just accept this certain narrative and be on the, quote, as I said, “good” side, have the bad side, and the ease with which now they just impose restrictions on the, quote, “bad” group is surprising.
ELIAS: I understand; I do. But in this, it also is giving you so many different examples of different expressions: what your motivation is for something; what the constructs are in relation to both sides; what is being expressed in relation to choice; the subject of personal responsibility and putting that into a public forum, in a manner of speaking, which is somewhat of a desperate attempt to keep that construct alive and in play, but people giving themselves more and more information. Or, even if they aren’t giving themselves information through some outside source, they’re looking at themselves more and evaluating what do they believe and what is important to them, and are other people their responsibility, and in this, is that actually a benefit to THEM, to take responsibility for other people? And in that, not moving necessarily in the direction of separation, of “I’m not responsible for anyone else and I don’t care” but more in the direction of “I do care, but I can’t be responsible for other people because they are making their choices and they may be making choices that I wouldn’t make or that I don’t agree with. And in that, how can I be responsible for them and their choices when I don’t agree with them?”
In this, it’s calling into question many expressions, many constructs that are very common in your world now.
MARKUS: Yeah. This makes the specific argument so powerful, because these are constructs which are shared. They are playing on deeply rooted values.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: They are playing on certain traits in these different countries, like our specific or peculiar way to orient ourselves towards authority. And I’m not saying this is going the same way [2], the whole road, but even when in school or even after World War II, when people, quote, “woke up” and thought how could this have happened, what’s happening now is like the onset to how it could have gotten started.
ELIAS: I very much agree. And therefore, in all of this, there is much to pay attention to and much to question and much to learn from. And in that, it is very much about self-directing, self-structuring and difference.
MARKUS: Yeah. But also, what I find – and this is how your tools are playing so nicely together – is even if I see that, like I can observe this specific process as it ripples through our country or through society or parts of our society, I’m always coming back [to] “Okay, what does this tell me about myself?” I mean –
ELIAS: Yes!
MARKUS: I’m observing this, and what does this mean about myself? Because I’m seeing this is like a process within a process. I’m then seeing people who are observing this process but are just merely focusing on the other, like they’re just going, “How can’t they not see? How can’t they not see? It is so obvious,” and they are not questioning their own part in what they are seeing. And I’m seeing them not seeing that, and then I’m asking myself, “And what does THIS tell me about myself?” And this again shows me what an incredibly powerful mechanism this attention to self is, because I could be basically lost just by pointing at other people.
ELIAS: Yes. Very much so. I very much agree. And this is the point. And this is also moving in the direction of following feelings. It’s alllll connected.
MARKUS: Quite. Indeed.
ELIAS: And in that, I would say that… This is what I have expressed to all of you many times in relation to mass expressions, that when you are expressing judgments about mass expressions, very much in alignment with what you are expressing, with what you are saying about how this influences you to look at yourself and ask yourself these questions [of] what does this mean about you, how are you participating, and how is this involving you. It’s very much so a matter of that, because in this, this is what is a driving force, is people looking outside of themselves, following feelings, being afraid or being angry, and that prompts them in the direction to point the finger and blame.
And in this, this is what I have been expressing to all of you. ALL of this is ALL connected, and the key piece, the central element, is you and what you do.
And in that, an individual may be expressing that they don’t agree with violence or they don’t agree with war or they don’t agree with this or that, but then they DO it in their own home. They express that they don’t agree with a particular direction or that people are being judgmental, but then they are judgmental in their own home.
MARKUS: Especially that.
ELIAS: And in that, they are dictating what they believe is right and absolute.
MARKUS: And this is so unfamiliar.
I basically came into contact with that stuff when I was 20, through the Seth books. And okay, there was maybe a decade or two in between where I didn’t really follow this with any intensity. And then I found your material like 16 years ago, and then basically from the beginning… When you say these things [now] I sometimes have glimpses from myself from the past, and how I heard this and how I tried to understand it and how hard or how unfamiliar it is to see yourself in this, and how you shave this away, thin layer for layer for layer for layer.
And let’s say now I’m with intensity in this process for two years, and it’s still unfamiliar. I mean, it’s becoming more familiar and I’m becoming a lot more proficient in applying this, but then there comes along a pandemic and an argument or a discussion and I have to basically deliberately remind myself of every single step (Elias chuckles) – or not every single, but I have to take a step back and ask myself, “Okay, what do we have here?”
ELIAS: (Chuckles) And “What am I doing?” And “What am I participating in?”
But let me express to you, my friend, I would say that this is very, very, very common in relation to people when they follow feelings. Then they do the very thing in their own home, in their own life, that they are judgmental of other people doing in mass situations. They are making the judgment of people that are unvaccinated and people saying that’s unfair and people shouldn’t do that and they shouldn’t move in those directions of judgment just because someone is different or they’re making a different choice. BUT – but then in their own life they may be presented with someone that is expressing different from themself, someone that may be expressing in some eccentric manner, and they look at that person and they express, “You shouldn’t be expressing in that manner. It’s irritating, it’s annoying, and it’s unrealistic. Put your feet on the ground and be like everyone else.”
MARKUS: (Laughs) Ah, yeah.
ELIAS: And in that, it can be expressed in even MORE simple terms in someone’s own home. They can express, “It’s ludicrous to express and to expect everyone to conform and that people can’t be expressing their own views and their own difference, and I support that people will express their own difference and they should not be forced to conform to any given societal norm.” And then that same individual in their own home turns around and yells and screams at their child because their child isn’t cleaning up their room and that is expected: “This is what you do, this is the measure of being responsible, and this is what is expected of you.” Why? Because that’s what EVERYBODY does.
MARKUS: (Laughs) Indeed.
ELIAS: And why? Because it makes YOU feel better. And—
MARKUS: Yeah. As I said, we are very much configured that way, I think.
ELIAS: Yes.
MARKUS: For whatever reasons. But we’re probably also at the point where it’s about time to get rid of a few of those configurations.
ELIAS: (Laughs) I would agree. And you are. You are – in increments, and I would not even express slowly but surely, because I would say you are moving quite quickly.
MARKUS: It’s just not that visible already, but yeah.
ELIAS: It may not seem to be that at this point to some of you, but in relation to yourselves and your history, I would say (chuckles) that you are moving quite quickly.
[The timer for the end of the session rings]
MARKUS: Okay. So, I hear the buzzer, and unlike usually, I’ve wrapped up everything just on time, so for a change I don’t want to go overtime.
ELIAS: Very well.
MARKUS: Thank you very much for your insights.
ELIAS: You are very welcome, my friend. I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting.
MARKUS: Me too.
ELIAS: And I express exceptional love and support to you.
MARKUS: And I do express exceptional gratitude and appreciation for what you are doing here.
ELIAS: Ahhhh. The most valuable expression of all: gratitude. Congratulations. (Laughs)
MARKUS: Thank you.
ELIAS: In dear friendship, as always, au revoir.
MARKUS: Bye-bye.
[1] Markus’ note: What I had wanted to say here was, putting myself and every word under the microscope to see if there is some judgment embedded there.
[2] Markus’ note: Meaning the whole way, like in Nazi Germany with concentration camps and all.
(Elias departs after 1 hour 30 minutes)
©2021 Mary Ennis. All Rights Reserved.
Copyright 2021 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.