Session 202110231



“The Dented Truck Example”
“The Problem with Thinking”
“Following the Feeling”
“The Signal of Body Pain”
“Using Your Senses to Distract Your Thinking”
“The Benefits of Meditation”
“Thinking and Learning Magic”
“Your Health is Not Your First Priority”

Saturday, October 23, 2021 (Group/Hinsdale, New Hampshire)

Participants: Mary (Michael), Ann (Vivette), Denise (Azura), Hazra (Lettecia), John H (Lonn), John (Rrussell), Karen (Turell), Lynda (Ruther), Mark (Liam), Melissa (Leah), Sandra (Atafah), Val (Atticus), Veronica (Amadis) and Yvonne (Zarla)

“Thinking doesn’t figure out. Thinking doesn’t give you a solution. That’s not where your solutions come from. Your solutions come from other parts of you. Your solutions come from the communication parts of you. They come from imagination, from impressions, from intuition, from body impulses, NOT thinking impulses.”

“Think about what you’re thinking about, and what you’re making important.”

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

GROUP: Good afternoon, Elias!

ELIAS: (Chuckles) What we shall discuss this day is importance. (Group cheers and group chatter)

What is importance?

ANN: What you pay attention to, what you concentrate on.

ELIAS: What IS importance?

KAREN: Focus. Attention.


ELIAS: Yes. (Group chatter) Importance is what you value. And in that, you THINK that these words automatically mean something positive, but that’s not necessarily true. Importance is what you value; and therefore, it’s what you pay attention to. If something isn’t important to you, you won’t pay attention to it.

In that, you MAKE many things important because you value them, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re good, or that they’re positive, or that they’re comfortable, or that you LIKE them, but that you are making them important.

What is important to each of you?

DENISE: Peace.

VERONICA: A feeling of wellbeing.


VERONICA: Satisfaction. Fulfilment – feeling fulfilled.

ELIAS: [To Val] What’s important to you?

VAL: Free, being free – freedom.

ELIAS: [To Ann] And you?

ANN: Fun.

ELIAS: [Karen] And you?

KAREN: I’m going to be honest: money.

ELIAS: Very well. [To John Rrussell] And you?

JOHN (R): Fulfilling exploration.

DENISE: Comfortability.

SANDRA: Engaging passion. Creating.

ANN: Excitement?

JOHN H: Having fun.

MELISSA: Exploring.

ELIAS: [To Lynda] And you?

LYNDA: Balance.

MARK: In this moment, my truck.

ELIAS: Now, THAT is more the answer I’m looking for.

Now; what’s important to you today? What’s important to you IN THE DAY?


ELIAS: Today – in the day.

VERONICA: What you are saying. What you are going to tell all of us – me. What will I get from you?

ANN: Learning. Something new. Expanding, I’d say. Expanding my awareness is actually right now important.

JOHN (R): Not screwing up.

ELIAS: Excellent. Excellent.

What are you making important that you DON’T like?

KAREN: Glass half empty.

ELIAS: Meaning?

KAREN: Meaning I don’t like always seeing lack. You know what I mean? Instead of oh, the abundance piece. It’s like I see the lack first – not always, but right now. Then I have to kind of move my… Like, how can I relook at this so that it’s… And then I’ll click in, but it seems still automatic.

ELIAS: But that’s not the automatic.

KAREN: Yeah.


KAREN: Yeah – yet.

SANDRA: I would say grievances – like grudges, little grudges that get expanded if I dwell on them.

ELIAS: Excellent. Yes?

MARK: The dent I just put in my truck.


LYNDA: A dent?


VAL: Not from the table – on the trip.

MARK: On the trip. I mean, I know how to get out of it; it’s just the process.

ELIAS: Now, let me ask you a question.

MARK: Certainly.

ELIAS: When did you put the dent in your truck?

MARK: About 45 minutes ago.

ELIAS: Forty-five minutes ago?

MARK: Maybe an hour?

ELIAS: An hour? And you’re still thinking about it.

SANDRA: Right. That’s the problem.

ELIAS: Because it’s bothering you.

MARK: No, I’m replacing it in my mind. I’m fixing it.

ELIAS: But you’re thinking about it.

MARK: Absolutely.

ELIAS: Definitely, because you are making that important.

MARK: It IS important. I told you, my truck is important. I want it perfect. So I’m going to fix it.

ELIAS: And why is the perfection of your truck important?

MARK: Because in my perception it retains its value by its appearance – not that that’s reflective of me, but I suppose somewhat it is.

ELIAS: And why is it important for it to retain its value?

MARK: Um… That’s an excellent question. I think that’s an ingrained belief that I have, something long term, that items that I own, I want to keep them in a certain condition. There’s no real… I guess monetarily speaking, appearance speaking – there’s several things in there.

ELIAS: This is an excellent example. Let’s use this as an example in several directions, because it isn’t a matter of automatically thinking that wanting to keep your truck in perfect condition is bad. There’s nothing wrong with that.

MARK: Absolutely not!

ELIAS: It’s a matter, though, of evaluating what is the motivation for that: WHY do you want to do that? And what is significant in that is looking at the reasons and whether they are – for you – actually valid, and whether they actually ARE important or not.

In this, understanding WHY you make something important, that you might be making that important because if you are maintaining the value of something, then you may be in a position to sell that and maintain that amount value for that particular item, and that may be important to you. If that ISN’T important to you, then it’s a matter of evaluating what IS it that makes that important to you, what is it that makes it valuable to you that something is in good condition, or perfect condition, in your perception. And in that, it may be simply that that’s your preference: that you LIKE that, that you like the appearance of something. You like to have it be in that valuable state because you feel good with it being in that valuable state, and it’s a personal preference. It may also be something such as status.

Now, in that, status is something that, for the most part, is something to impress others. BUT –if that WERE a piece of what was making that important to you, then it would be something to evaluate and to observe, that if status was a part of what makes that important to you, then it’s a matter of looking at why is it important to you what other people perceive about you and about what you have.

Now, that isn’t necessarily automatically a negative either, because it may be that you may be placing yourself in positions in which it’s important that other people perceive you as valuable, perhaps in relation to a position in a job or in relation to some other interaction that you may be engaging with other people, and that it’s significant how other people perceive you, and you want them to perceive you in a particular manner. And therefore, you move in a direction of valuing that aspect of status, but not because it defines you.

MARK: It benefits you.

ELIAS: It benefits you—

JOHN (R): Reputation.

ELIAS: — but it doesn’t define who you are. Therefore, if you DON’T have a particular status, it isn’t placing you in a position in which you view yourself as not valuable.

BUT – this is the point, that any of these subjects, regardless of what they are, they aren’t as black and white as they may initially be perceived. And in that, it is a matter of looking at importance in relation to your daily life and what you’re making important and why.

MARK: I’ve got a question.


MARK: It’s not a question, it’s more of a statement, I guess. Very tricky business, the example of my truck. I smash it, and then I automatically go to a place of “Oh crap!” and then I go further and I catch myself. You’ve got a couple of different directions you can go here. One is to make the damage so important I get disturbed, so to me that’s a signal: Don’t go there, because you’re going to create more of the same stuff if you get stuck in there. And it’s hard to not stay in that.

ELIAS: Especially if there’s something that you don’t like.

MARK: You don’t like it, you’re looking at it – you know, I’m going to keep looking at it until I fix it. So if you want to shed some light on that topic as far as you’re looking at the item that you don’t like, the damage on the truck, shifting your perception to something different, but you’ve still got the damage on the truck.

JOHN (R): Do you mean like it’s always in front of you so you can’t… ?

MARK: It’s in my mind. I’m making it important. In this moment it’s in my attention.

JOHN (R): Right. But you mean it’s also right there because you’re looking at it; it’s on the truck.

MARK: Right. It’s right there. Until it’s fixed, every time I look at it I return to my… This is just me.

JOHN (R): Yeah.

MARK: I would say “Well, in the moment you weren’t paying attention; WHY weren’t you paying attention?” I turn it against myself. And I know all this is not good for me – I mean, I know that.

ELIAS: But it’s automatic.

MARK: It’s automatic. It’s automatic. So I try to teach myself, and like he said, it’s a great example of, you know, how do you shift that? Your body’s telling you, “Hey, Mark! Don’t go there. It’s not good for you. Yeah, it sucks that you just damaged your truck.” And the other side of it is I incrementally… It’s not a lot of money, it’s not a big deal, I can manifest another brand-new truck if I want it. I mean, it’s pennies, you know. In Mary’s earlier… You know, the perception of a $100 bill is now a thousand, a thousand’s 10 – it’s just stupid. But whatever, you’re so trained to think, “Oh man, I just wrecked something I just bought.”

LYNDA: That feeling is so strong.

MARK: “I’m an idiot.”

ANN: Well, how helpful of you to offer us this example. Thank you, Mark!

MARK: Well, there you go. (Ann laughs) No problem.

So I’m asking you if you can shed some of the Elias wisdom in that direction.

ELIAS: What I would say is first of all, the first piece is not automatically moving in the direction of thinking that you’re doing something wrong because something bothered you.

MARK: Excellent!

ELIAS: That there are many actions that occur in your daily life that you do, choices that you make that are not necessarily initially comfortable or that you don’t necessarily like. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re bad, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that you did something wrong OR that you weren’t paying attention. It may not be a situation of “Uh! I wasn’t paying attention, look what I did.” No, it may be that you created that choice to create some damage. Is it tremendous?


ELIAS: No. Then you created a situation in which you have a minor damage, that you can actually be presenting this—

MARK: Subject. Yeah, I see that.

ELIAS: This opportunity – not necessarily this subject for this group – but this opportunity for you to actually alter your perception. Look at that damage, acknowledge to yourself that it isn’t something that is tremendous, and in that, it doesn’t warrant your attention. You already see it, you’ve already acknowledged it.

MARK: Stop swimming in it.

ELIAS: You already KNOW that what’s important to you is to fix it. Can you fix it in this minute? No. You’re not choosing to. You’re choosing to do something different in this minute; therefore, pay attention to what you’re doing in this minute. You already HAVE information, ALL the information that you need about what you already created. It’s not necessary for you to keep repeating it in your brain. It’s not necessary for you to be discounting yourself that you did something wrong or that you were being wrong by not paying attention, or that this is bad because it’s something that you’re not comfortable with. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad. You don’t have to be comfortable with every choice that is happening in your day; it’s what you DO with that choice that matters, how you are making that important.

You made it important initially: “It’s important. My truck is important to me. Having my truck appear perfect is important to me.” You already know that. You don’t have to dwell on that, you don’t have to think about it more, because you already KNOW it. You’re not giving yourself any new information.

This is the problem with thinking. Your thought mechanism is an important part of your reality, but it serves a very specific function, and its function is to translate information that you are presenting to yourself, that you’re communicating to yourself. Your thinking ISN’T a communication; it only translates. Therefore, if you’re thinking, thinking, thinking, you’re simply repeating the translation. You’re not giving it anything new to translate.

And why are you doing that? Because you’re making that important. WHY are you making that important? Because in this moment, there’s an element of helplessness, because in this moment you’re not choosing to go fix it immediately. Therefore, you aren’t choosing to change it immediately. Therefore, there is a slight aspect of helplessness, because you’re not doing what you think is more important: “What’s more important is to fix it, but I’m choosing to do this other action. I’m choosing to be with these people. I’m choosing to be listening to Elias. I’m choosing to be in this atmosphere.” But you’re making that choice of fixing the truck more important, or you wouldn’t keep thinking about it.

Therefore, —

MARK: Well, I’m done with that, just so you know. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: It’s simply a matter—

MARK: I’ve already fixed it, in my head.

ELIAS: Excellent! But it took you an hour to do that.

MARK: Yes. I’m working on it.

ELIAS: The point with that is that with many people, it doesn’t simply take them an hour. And I acknowledge that, that it ONLY took you an hour.

MARK: Thank you.

ELIAS: With many people, it doesn’t only take them an hour.

MARK: Can I ask you a question? I want to relate this to a different topic. Same thing with the truck, I present myself with an illness. So what I’m hearing you tell me is that the illness is uncomfortable; I can make that uncomfortableness important, or I can maybe modify my perception and try to perceive it in a different way. Meaning that maybe this is a path to something more significant, more important. Meaning—


MARK: I heal myself.


MARK: As the example.


MARK: You know, I went through that discomfort, I healed myself, so now my perception has changed, that wow, I can heal myself.

ELIAS: That you can.

MARK: Wow. That’s crazy. How’s that even possible? But I had to go through the uncomfortable state for an hour, days, —


MARK: Years.


MARK: Is that the same?

ELIAS: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And that was what I was expressing, that many individuals make something uncomfortable important for ongoing periods of time.

MARK: Yeah, that’s hard.

ELIAS: People engage an uncomfortable interaction with each other, or an argument or a disagreement, and they may generate a significant, let us say emotional expression between them. And they make that important, and they may move in a direction of what you term to be holding a grudge for years, because they’re making it important. And WHAT are they making important? If they actually allow themselves to evaluate that, most of the time what they’re making important is that they feel that they are right and someone else wronged them, and they’re holding on to that and making that important.

But these are extremes. I would say that most of you – all of you, actually – have varying degrees of things that you make important that aren’t comfortable, that you don’t like. But what I would also say to you is that what I would hear from likely all of you is, “I’m trying. I’m trying to shift my perception.” This is actually very genuine. “I’m trying to shift my perception in relation to what’s automatic. I move in the automatic direction first, and I’m trying not to do that.”

Moving in the automatic direction first isn’t always bad, and it isn’t necessarily wrong either, because most of the time that automatic first expression, that first reaction… Now, it is a reaction, and THAT’S something that you can actually practice not doing, because there is a difference between a reaction and a response. But you’re having that initial reaction most of the time – not always – because of your own preferences, such as the truck being in perfect condition, and that that’s not necessarily bad. It’s something that’s your preference, and that’s genuine.

And therefore, when you have something that you present to yourself, an experience that you react to initially, many times you’re reacting to that importance, and it’s a matter of how you engage that then, from that moment on, because you can acknowledge the importance of what you have presented to yourself, and then it’s a matter of how much you pay attention to that, and HOW you pay attention to that, and for how LONG are you paying attention to that.


JOHN (R): Well, it’s interesting. I mean, I can recognize all of this stuff in myself, and it’s hard to… What you’re describing in the truck incident, that’s a discrete thing that happened, and then here’s the stuff you do to change your attention and kind of move on. But it’s not always a discrete thing, and it can be bundled up with…

If I take the example of when I used to be a musician – and this is maybe one analogy of it – and the actual situation I’m in now, which is I used the word “reputation” before, which we were talking about… not reputation but “status,” which is very similar, right? So I think myself at work – and we talked about this one-on-one last week – but if there’s an ongoing… we try and phrase it. So I’m interested in what I’m doing on a day-to-day basis. There’s a quality of reputation I’m trying to maintain in things I’m doing at my job: “Am I making the right decision? Is this going to be perceived as the right decision? Is there a better decision?” And then you said there’s ways that make that “What are you paying attention to?” and I think in my case, “Am I doing the right thing or the wrong thing?” But there’s also… That is something, those are things I should be thinking about, is “Am I making the right decision? What factors should go into my decision?” And there’s a positive way of thinking about it.

In any case, if I could separate that out, I think that would be great. But it’s hard to do when every single day you’re… like you can’t get off the hamster wheel. Does that make sense?


JOHN (R): Okay.


JOHN (R): Thanks, I’m glad. (Group laughter)

MARK: That’s great.

ELIAS: Do all of you understand what he expressed?


DENISE: Yes. I was going to ask a similar question.

ANN: I was hoping you would recap it. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: There’s a slight confusion in relation to paying attention to certain expressions that you’re doing, [about] when they are beneficial and when they aren’t. That in this situation, there is… he incorporates a tendency to question himself in manners that aren’t beneficial, that move in a direction of repetition in association with “Am I doing the right thing? Am I making the right choice? Am I moving in the right direction? Am I doing something wrong? How are the people in my job perceiving me?”

Now, in some pieces, that’s actually beneficial. When he’s looking at input information, and he’s evaluating what’s the most beneficial, the most valuable direction to move in, it translates to “What’s the right choice to make in relation to what I am doing? And what benefits my team? What benefits who is receiving this from us?” And therefore, there is a piece that IS important for him to be evaluating what’s the right direction to move in and what’s the most beneficial. But then there’s that division in which it becomes not a benefit personally, because he can be at times caught in a direction in which now it’s not about the project or the subject, it’s about himself personally: “Am I doing the right thing? Am I in the right direction? How are the other people perceiving ME in what I’m doing? Maybe they think I’m doing something wrong.” And in that, it’s more questioning himself than questioning the situation or the subject, and there is a difference in that.

In that, that can happen in many situations in which you may not be at work, just as you were expressing in relation to status or reputation and music. And this isn’t your job now that you’re talking about; you’re talking about other parts of your life and what’s important to you, and that there are certain factors in that, that as I expressed, status in some capacities can be detrimental and is not necessarily what you think of as good or productive. But then there are some expressions in which it DOES further you and it IS important for reputation. In some situations, reputation is simply you being consumed with the idea of what other people think of you or how they perceive you, and then that rules you because it is too important. Or, then there is the factor of reputation that moves in your benefit, that if you have a certain reputation in relation to your music, other people will notice you, and that they will benefit you in relation to what you want and what IS important to you. Therefore, that can be significant.

It’s not black and white. It’s about looking at your daily life, your daily actions in a realistic capacity and evaluating: “What am I making important, and why? Not that it ISN’T important, but evaluating how important is something to me, and if something is important to me, I don’t need to continue to think about it and think about it and think about it.” This is following feelings.

This is the piece that people don’t quite understand, or they don’t think about or recognize at the time. You have an initial feeling. Following the feeling is thinking about it over and over and over again. You don’t necessarily keep feeling; following the feeling is giving it continued attention, and that attention is not necessarily always directed at the feeling itself. It may be directed at what CAUSED the feeling. Sometimes it IS about the feeling itself.

Physical feelings: if a person is in pain, they generally will be paying attention to the pain. They are focusing their attention directly on to that spot that hurts, and they’re going to continue to pay attention to that spot that hurts. But MANY times, the person isn’t actually paying attention to the feeling directly; they’re paying attention to whatever they perceive caused the feeling to begin with, and they’re thinking about it over and over and over again. And THAT is following the feeling, because it influences you in your behavior. It influences your attention. You can’t be paying attention to what’s going on around you as much if you’re paying attention to what you’re thinking about in relation to how to fix something. Not that you can’t pay attention to what’s going on around you at all; you can, but your attention will be divided. Therefore, you’re not as focused. In this, you don’t move as efficiently and effectively if you’re following the feelings, and you do that because of what you’re making important.

In this, as I expressed, what you are making important initially isn’t necessarily wrong or bad, but you’re reacting to it. And THAT isn’t necessarily significantly bad, either. It’s more efficient and more effective if you are responding rather than reacting – and that’s the piece that all of you began with: “I’m trying to not do this. I’m trying to move past that automatic expression.” The automatic expression is the reaction, and you’re focused on judging that reaction, that you shouldn’t have that. It’s not about not having that; what you’re doing is focusing on something that’s important to you.

The reactive piece is when you keep moving in that direction and you allow it to affect your behavior. And let me express to you: Allowing something to affect your behavior doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re acting out something. You may be outwardly appearing to do nothing – you’re sitting in a chair. But your behavior is not only what you’re physically doing –it’s what you’re thinking. That’s part of your behavior. Therefore in that, if you have a divided attention, that’s a behavior. And in that, that’s what following feelings does: it alters your behavior in an automatic manner. That’s the reactive piece.

Responding is noticing something that is occurring in your reality, something you’ve presented to yourself – whether it’s good or bad – noting that, having your initial evaluation: “I don’t like this. I need to fix this. I’m going to fix this.” Very well, not tremendously significant – somewhat important, acknowledging that it is somewhat important, but that’s enough of the importance. Also recognizing that each thing that you present to yourself will have varying degrees of importance. Therefore, something such as damaging your truck has one type of importance. Something such as running over an animal with your truck and killing it has a very different importance. And in that, you may have a very emotional response to an act like that.

MARK: It just happened.

LYNDA: It just happened on the road coming in, me and Mary driving. We heard three shots, and we saw a guy drag a deer off the freeway. I missed the shots and we just saw the deer, and we both had a strong reaction. It was pretty intense. That’s exactly what happened on the way.

ELIAS: And if you ran over it yourselves and killed it—

LYNDA: It would be even worse.


LYNDA: Terrible.

ELIAS: Yes. Because of what you believe and what you value and what is important to you. And therefore, you may have an emotional response to that, and it may not subside for a time. You might have an emotional response, and you might keep having an emotional response for a time framework. And in that, then you judge yourself that you’re paying too much attention to something and that you need to learn how to not do that. No, it’s a matter of evaluating what is important in varying degrees.


JOHN (R): Could you maybe, as a footnote, define behavior and what you meant by how it divided attention, would it impact or affect behavior? What do you mean?

ELIAS: Behavior is what you do, whatever it is that you do. It is the DOING part of you. Your doing is affected if your attention is divided. If you are listening to two conversations at the same time, your attention is divided. Your behavior is being affected, meaning that you likely won’t be as invested in one or the other of those conversations, or you won’t be invested in either of them. And in that, that creates a difference of projecting energy, and other people will feel that and be aware of something. You are creating a behavior that creates a distance from the other people that you are listening to, because your attention is divided.

JOHN (R): Hence, when you’re focusing on your feelings, then that’s what you meant—

ELIAS: Your attention is also divided. Yes. When you are focused on feelings, you may not be focused on “the feeling,” but you’re focused on what created that feeling or what caused it, in your perception, and you’re thinking about it, which is dividing your attention from whatever you’re doing, which augments your behavior because your behavior is what you’re doing.

MARK: You used the example in there of pain, pain in importance.


MARK: Would you shed some more light on that? I have a pain in my body.

ELIAS: That can be very challenging. There are also reasons that that can be very challenging because of how you perceive your body. Most people perceive their body in a capacity in which it does actions itself – you’re not doing it, it’s doing it. Not that you are THINKING that, but that is the association. Therefore, if something hurts, if you are experiencing a pain, your body is creating the pain. YOU aren’t creating the pain, your body is creating the pain. And in that, you’re not in control of that. You don’t control that situation.

Therefore, that’s another factor that is added in, in relation to perception, and it also is a factor in relation to importance. You are making important that the body makes choices that aren’t yours, and therefore, you are concentrating on something that is very uncomfortable because your body is creating that uncomfortable[ness], that pain situation, and YOU don’t seem to have much say in that. It’s doing it, and you don’t have control over it, and you don’t have much say in what it’s doing, so you have to then move in a direction of doing something, such as healing, to fix it.

MARK: But isn’t that pain a signal?

ELIAS: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It IS a signal.

ANN: A signal of what WE’RE doing.

ELIAS: Yes, it is. And in that, —

MARK: Isn’t the… I guess we’ll call it process, to acknowledge the signal and get the message?


MARK: And once we get the message, then what?

ELIAS: That depends.

ANN: Then we choose.

ELIAS: It depends on what you choose. It depends on what you’re paying attention to and what you’re making important. Again, —

MARK: In all cases of pain, though, is it the same? Regardless of what the pain is?


MARK: Foot pain, stomach pain, head pain, it doesn’t matter what pain. Pain, pain, pain, go away.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARK: Gotcha.

ELIAS: Go away. And what’s important is that it’s uncomfortable, it hurts and it needs to be fixed, or it needs to be healed. If you are recognizing, “Yes, that this IS a signal, and what am I doing in this moment that is creating this signal, and what am I making important that is holding my attention in relation to this?” – because even if you give yourself an idea of a reason, let us say, that you have this pain—

MARK: There’s always a reason.

ELIAS: But you’re not necessarily looking at “What am I doing in this moment that is making this signal?” And even if you are, even if you do, that doesn’t necessarily guarantee that the pain will stop if you’re still making the pain important. (Group chatter)

MARK: Easier said than done.

ELIAS: Precisely.

ANN: What did you say?

MARK: I said easier said than done, because you’re totally making that pain important because —

ELIAS: Precisely.

MARK: --you know, “You’re standing on my foot right now,” and –

LYNDA: It’s distracting.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

MARK: You don’t even think about a signal or how to get out of it, or…

ELIAS: No, you simply continue to pay attention and make that important.

MARK: So how do you shift that importance? How do you modify that?

ELIAS: You first of all acknowledge it and then begin to move in a direction of what we were discussing: WHY is this important? What are you doing? Why are you making this important?

ANN: Well, did I not hear you correctly when you said we were making important thinking our body was doing the pain? So we feel pain in our body; my toe hurts. I’m like, “My toe hurts. My body is creating this pain.” I’m making the fact that I believe my body is creating this pain important, when actually I in some way am choosing this pain. So if I shift the importance to me being the one who’s making the choice, I’m thinking… I’m lost here. So I shift the importance from my body doing it to me doing it, me making the choice, paying attention to what I’m doing in the moment, how I chose that pain: Is that how I’m going to shift this perspective?

VERONICA: Why she chose it, why she’s causing the pain.

ELIAS: That’s part of it, but she doesn’t have to ask that question yet. She may want to ask that question eventually, but in the moment, it is more about WHAT you’re doing, not necessarily why.

ANN: So, a very simple example: I stub my toe. “Ahhh! My toe hurts! Dammit! Dammit! Dammit!” and I’m paying attention to the pain in my toe and I’m even saying, “My toe hurts,” you know. I’m not hurting my toe, my toe hurts. So, a different—

ELIAS: Now, stop.

ANN: Okay.

ELIAS: Because most likely, you’ll do that. You’ll jump around. You’ll yell. (Ann yells) Yes. And within two or three minutes—

ANN: It goes away.


ANN: Okay.

ELIAS: And it won’t hurt, and—

ANN: Because I let it go? Because I… ?

ELIAS: Because you stop paying attention to it. You stop paying attention to it why? Because you actually express it. In the moment you move in a direction of –

ANN: I released it!


ANN: Okay, so then sometimes when you have ongoing pain, I mean it makes sense that you’re holding on to this shit, and then it just builds up like “We don’t want to bring this up. I’m letting John.” (Laughs) But actually it is going away.

VAL: It’s like when you take a hammer and hit your finger, and you say “Damn!” and you scream, and then in about two or three minutes your finger’s like, “Haaaah.” There is kind of a pleasant feeling at that point in time. It’s a release.

ANN: But a more chronic disease means that’s something you’ve been hanging on to. THAT we let go of, and we’re all used to letting go of that. So something that is chronically hurting, we’re hanging on to it.

ELIAS: You’re continuing to pay attention to it.

ANN: And we’re continuing to pay attention to it by hanging on to it.

VAL: And are you getting the message?

ANN: But then why do we choose to pay attention to some pain and then not others, then? Or we pay attention and let it go. What’s the difference?

ELIAS: First of all, generally speaking, if you have an objective, immediate reason for something, if you stub your toe, if you gash your leg, if you smash your finger, if you give yourself a concussion – although the concussion is somewhat iffy – but if you have an outside reason for something, if you can SEE what has caused that discomfort, if you can see what caused the pain, you have a reason. And in that, once you have a reason, you stop paying attention to it.

ANN: Ah, yeah.

ELIAS: When you DON’T know what the reason is, —

ANN: You keep trying to figure it out.

ELIAS: Correct. You keep paying attention to it. And even if you’re not trying to figure it out, you’re paying attention to what hurts. You’re paying attention to the manifestation. You’re not paying attention to what are you doing. You SAW what you were doing if you stubbed your foot. You see what you did if you smash your finger. You don’t KNOW what you’re doing if you have a pain and you can’t see what that pain has been caused by. Therefore, you don’t know what to pay attention to. Regardless of how many times I have said to you, “It’s what you’re doing in this moment,” you don’t pay attention to that; you pay attention to what the manifestation is. Therefore in that, you continue to pay attention to what you feel, and in that, once again, it affects your behavior. If you are in pain, you will become irritable.

MARK: I’ll say. So, Ann.

ANN: Yeah?

MARK: Last time I was here, I had significant back pain to the point of being crippled. It was putting me on my knees. I have x-rays that show spinal damage, significant spinal damage. But the pain was a signal that I was… How do I explain this? I was taking on other people’s energy and interpreting it with my own feelings, and that pain was a signal to make me pay attention to that and modify my behavior.

ELIAS: But you didn’t know that immediately.

MARK: I absolutely did not know anything about that. Elias shared that with me. It was difficult to be able to look at that differently and say, “Oh no, it’s not just physical damage.” You know, you talk to a doctor, he’ll say “Oh, this is broke.” I’m just saying for me – I can’t tell you for anybody else, but for me that specific example is… That got my attention. Nothing else would have gotten my attention.

So back to the body being separate, in a sense for me is you know I’m making – because you brought that up, Ann, about a choice. You know, you’re making a choice, but you’re really not aware that you’re making that choice. You’re not saying, “All right, I’m going to stab myself in the back.”

ANN: Yeah, I think that’s the… Yeah. Yeah, you’re right.

MARK: I’m going to slam it. I’m just going to take a knife, I’m going to shove it right in my back. Because that’s what it felt like to me.

ANN: Yeah. Which is—

MARK: Why would I do that to myself?

ANN: To get your attention.

MARK: Well, you know, I’ve had that behavior for probably 20 years, at least.

ANN: And that’s just why we’re here.

ELIAS: Yes, but –

ANN: To stop doing that.

ELIAS: And that is an excellent point. Yes. You’ve been generating that behavior for 20 years. You’ve been moving in that direction for 20 years. And why now would you create this physical manifestation and this pain in relation to something that you’ve been doing for 20 years? Why didn’t you create that 20 years ago, or 10 years ago, or 15 years ago? Because you weren’t ready. You weren’t ready to look at it. You weren’t ready to see it. And even in that, you WERE presenting different manifestations—

MARK: Absolutely.

ELIAS: — and you WEREN’T paying attention to them. And therefore, in that, it builds and it continues. And in that, eventually you ARE ready, and then you’ll present something that genuinely will capture your attention, and that will influence you to look at something differently.

ANN: Just like the car.

ELIAS: Yes, --

MARK: That’s not always the case though, is it?

ELIAS: --but let me say to you that you might look at the car first, because as much as most individuals don’t want to think in this manner or they would think that no, they wouldn’t do this, you don’t think about your health first. You don’t value your health first. You actually move in directions in relation to health as being somewhat down on the list of importance.

VAL: Hm. Would you agree that some of us use physical manifestations to move us forward?

ELIAS: Most definitely!

VAL: You had a great session with John a bit ago. [Session 20211017] It resonates with me, and I’ve used this myself extensively through my lifetime. I get the intuitive hits to do this or that, but then there’s always that hesitation: Is this the right choice? Am I doing the right thing? And then I will create a physical manifestation, and I know it’s like a boot in the butt to move forward. It’s a communication.


MARK: That’s hard.

ANN: But it would be nice to not have to create these physical things.

VAL: Yes. Well, we don’t pay attention.

ELIAS: I would say this what we began with: that thinking.

ANN: That it would be nice? That’s a choice I’m making—

ELIAS: That it’s better to express in a different manner, that this is not the most efficient manner to do something. And what I’m expressing to you is you don’t have to like something, but it’s not necessarily bad.

ANN: But if I can give myself a message with or without pain, I kind of want to do it without pain.

MARK: But you won’t listen.

ANN: So, I’m thinking if I listen, …

ELIAS: But that’s your ideal, but that’s not necessarily what you’ll do.

ANN: Well, I want to move in that direction.

ELIAS: And that is excellent. And that’s what motivates you to pay attention to what you’re making important.

ANN: Exactly.

ELIAS: Precisely. That is the point. Yes, you do have preferences, and it isn’t always the preference to generate some physical manifestation or some discomfort to give yourself the message or to give yourself the kick in the butt. I would say that it’s a step to acknowledge that that’s how you accomplish, and that you are acknowledging that and that you’re not necessarily looking at it as something bad, but then the next step may be to recognize that you don’t have to do that to move in the same accomplishment.

An excellent example is people that are very dramatic, that most of you have an idea that drama is not good, and then there are people that are very dramatic and that express a considerable amount of drama. Now, that same person that does that, eventually if they are looking at their life and their expression of drama and why they do that, not everyone but many of them will generally stop being so dramatic, because they begin to see that it requires much more energy than is necessary, just as creating physical manifestations requires much more energy to give yourself those messages. It’s efficient and it’s effective for many individuals, because many individuals that use physical manifestations to give themselves information or to give themselves a communication have been doing it since they were very small children. It’s something that they’ve learned very, very young, and they perfect it as they grow (group laughter). And it IS effective, and it IS efficient, but you are correct: You can be even MORE efficient and effective using LESS energy and being more comfortable by being more aware of what you’re doing and what you’re making important, therefore what you’re paying attention to.

We shall break and continue shortly.

GROUP: Thank you.

(Break occurs after 1 hour 9 minutes)

ELIAS: Continuing. (Chuckles) And now I would open the floor to all of you in relation to what is important to you and what you want to discuss, because whatever you choose will be important to you. (Laughs)

LYNDA: I have something, and that is I thought for a long time that health was my number one priority, and it’s not. And that’s been a little bit of a rude awakening, as you know, and I am kind of in the middle of looking at all the pieces and parts and continuing on and following my own day-to-day, not-very-big plans of how I’m eating, which is kind of unusual for me because I’m really regimented, or I have been. And I’m not concerned with losing weight like I used to be, and I’m learning about how my appearance was more important to me than my health. And “This is not a bad thing, Lynda,” even though I turned on myself a little bit about that for a good season of time. But I’m feeling that I’m moving into a new trust of myself, and it’s a challenge. And now I’ve incorporated not so much an eating plan or anything to do really with eating. I’ve incorporated adding running to my life, and because I have osteoporosis and it just got worse in the last three years, not better, when I thought it was better. And that was my realization, that health is not as important to me as I thought.

The difficulty for me is moving out of being hard on myself about it and not making running “running is being difficult and a challenge.” And I’d like to (sighs) move out of paying so much attention to how difficult it is. I don’t want to do that. I want to get into it and go through whatever my body needs to go through to adjust, my breathing, and take my time and not push myself. I think that the big difficulty or the distraction is pushing myself to do better faster, and I don’t like that.

ELIAS: (Pause) First of all, I would say that part of pushing to do better and faster is linked to being dissatisfied with what is, and expressing being uncomfortable with what is.

Now, this once again is another very good example, because it’s an example of a very real experience, doing something different that you don’t actually like doing but you’re choosing to do for a health reason, but that you don’t like it. And in that, what makes it so difficult is that you keep fighting with that piece about not liking it, that you’re still fighting with that piece – meaning that you’re waiting for a point where you do like it, and there might not ever be a point where you do like it.

LYNDA: Good to know. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: Sometimes you make choices for reasons that ARE important to you that you don’t necessarily like. Running may be a choice that you make because it is important to your health, and you’re trying to make yourself like it.

LYNDA: I am.

ELIAS: You don’t like it.

LYNDA: I don’t.

ELIAS: Stop fighting with that.

LYNDA: Okay.

ELIAS: Which means the less you fight with it, the less you pay attention to it. Therefore, in between the times when you’re actually running, you’re not necessarily thinking about running. When you actually begin to run and you’re out of breath and you don’t like it, you express, “I don’t like this.” And you don’t have to keep saying to yourself you don’t like it, because you already know that.

Now, this is the piece once again about the thinking: thinking about what you don’t like, making it important by thinking about it continuously and repetitively. It’s a matter of recognizing that this is something that you don’t necessarily like. You might never like it, but you’re choosing it anyway, and you KNOW that you’re choosing it intentionally. And because you’re choosing it intentionally, and because you already know that you don’t like it, you don’t have to think about it.

So when you are thinking about it, as you and I have discussed, it’s a matter of finding some other action, finding some method that will allow you to stop thinking about it.

LYNDA: And we do have a method.

ELIAS: Yes, we do. YOU have a method.

LYNDA: I have a method, right.

ELIAS: In relation to that thinking, which actually could be helpful to other individuals. What you do is listen to sounds—

LYNDA: Not music.

ELIAS: — that are distracting. Sounds of ocean waves or sounds of rain that are distracting. It moves your attention from the thinking to an actual sense. Now you’re not paying as much attention to the thinking as you are to the input of one of your senses.

In this, she has the advantage to be listening to these sounds through her hearing devices. Therefore, it isn’t audible to other people, and other people don’t actually know when she’s listening to those sounds to distract herself from thinking. But I would say that other people can do other things, and in that, it’s a matter of choosing one of your senses. You don’t have to use your sense of hearing – or you could, and you could use your sense of hearing in relation to some outside source, some natural outside source: wind, birds, traffic – it doesn’t matter what it is. Use an outside sound that is in your environment that is constant, that you can replace that thinking with paying attention to an actual physical sense. It could be your sense of touch, taste, smell, hearing, sight – anything.

ANN: Why not music? She said but not music.

ELIAS: You might not always be in a situation in which you could use an auditory expression. Music? The reason that I expressed “no” in relation to music is because music is something that you can become accustomed to because you’re already very accustomed to it, and you override it and think anyway.

ANN: Gotcha. That makes sense, yeah.

ELIAS: Because it’s something that’s in your life, not necessarily continuously but enough that it’s very familiar to you. And in that, you’ve learned how to override that as a sound.

ANN: But if you, let’s say was listening to an orchestra – and especially me, who I’m not very musical – but if I was listening to it and I try to pick up the different instruments or something, then that would serve the same purpose?

ELIAS: No. No. Because then you’re thinking.

ANN: Oh, I’m thinking then. Ahhhhh.

ELIAS: Then you’re thinking about the music. With this, the point is to be listening, to be using one of your senses but not thinking about it. You’re listening to rain. There’s not much to think about with rain; you’re simply listening to the sound of it and allowing it to be soothing.

VERONICA: Wouldn’t you get satiated from listening to the rain? I mean, wouldn’t you be disengaging your sense of hearing by listening to repetitive rain?

ELIAS: Not necessarily, no. And, in that, I would say as with anything in your daily activities, in your daily life, all of your senses are engaged all the time, and you are accustomed to that. And therefore you can be paying attention to more than one sense at one time, and it’s not difficult for you. But in addition to that, I would say that this is something that is an action to do to stop the thinking – stop that compulsive, automatic, constant thinking, and allowing you to quiet the thought mechanism. And in that, it’s simply a matter of something that you can do at any time.

MALE: To distract yourself.

ELIAS: Yes. And you don’t do it constantly; you do it when you’re thinking, to stop yourself from thinking.

And in that, once you’ve interrupted the repetitive thinking, then your body actually relaxes, and you think less and you can pay attention to other actions that you’re engaging more fully. But you don’t have to use sound; you can use anything with any of your senses that will distract your thinking and stop it.

This also is an excellent method and avenue to use to prepare you to learn how to meditate, because meditation in its most effective form is to be quieting the thinking and turn it off. And in that, in western societies that’s very difficult to do. You have not been taught how to do that from very small ages, whereas in other cultures, they do learn how to do that from very, very young ages. You have not learned that. Therefore, learning how to quiet your thought mechanism as an adult is challenging, because you’ve learned how to rely on your thinking. You’ve learned how to be engaging it constantly, and you use it as if it were a communication. It’s not, but you use it as if it were. And because of that, you are engaging it constantly, which is the reason that following feelings engages your thought mechanism tremendously, and that’s what furthers that action.

I would say that in this, if you’re practicing some action in paying attention to your senses, there are two directions you can move in furthering that. One is to use it as a method to move yourself into a meditation. It also will help you to engage the exercise in clarity, which for most people is considerably difficult to achieve but can be very useful. It gives you very definite acknowledgment of accomplishment in relation to being intentional.

The exercise in clarity is one in which you turn off one of your senses. [One description of this exercise is in Session 1555.] And this can be tremendously challenging to do, to actually achieve, turn off one of your senses and pay attention to your other senses and shut out one. You’re not accustomed to generating that type of intentional action.

And in that, it can be tremendously encouraging and helpful, because it gives you a very strong directedness. It teaches you how to be very specifically directed, and that can be very helpful in relation to anything. It also can help you even in self-structuring, because if you can direct yourself in certain manners – in certain disciplines, so to speak – it can help you be self-directing much more easily, self-directing and self-structuring. Self-structuring is considerably challenging for most people.

JOHN (R): What else could help? You talked about meditation with me and some others, and one problem I had, which is the same problem that I think many others have had, is I start out like the way you’re describing it, and within 20 seconds this is like the most fucking POINTLESS thing I’ve ever tried to do. I would like to smash everything around me and go do something else. This is just not happening.

And what you said, I don’t see myself doing that either, with having rain sounds in the background. I’m just going to go… I’m going to go nuts. And I know I’m not alone, so that’s why I’m asking this question. What else do you suggest in terms of…?

MARK: Hurt your ankle and fall on the ground.

JOHN (R): What’s that?

VAL: Twist your ankle and fall on the ground.

JOHN (R): Twist my ankle and fall on the ground? (Laughs) I just twisted my ankle randomly and fell on the ground, but there’s that.

MARK: That moved your attention.

JOHN: It did. But it didn’t shut off my senses, but yeah.

LYNDA: Can I say one thing about what my experience is with the rain sounds or the ocean sounds?


LYNDA: Because I drill myself into the ground so often, when I hear the rain it immediately calms me down and I’m able to go from chaos to just little pinpoint sounds. It’s a physical action. I’m moving my attention to the sound of something else, and I’m instantly relieved of overthinking.

ELIAS: But that didn’t happen immediately.

LYNDA: No. It didn’t. And it was very similar—

JOHN (R): So you had to keep doing it over and over again to get used to it?

LYNDA: Yes. Yes. And it’s very similar to what you said. Elias had me on this not a tremendous amount of time, several months – lifetimes it feels like (group laughter), but mostly months. But I also meditate five minutes before I go to bed and five minutes when I very first wake up. That’s kind of what started it, and that was really hard. Yeah, that was really hard, to chill my jets. I didn’t even do five minutes. If I did a minute I was pretty excited.

JOHN (R): You’ve got to take a bath and get relaxed and stuff first.

LYNDA: No, no, no. I just to try to get up. I get right up. I like do a few things, get up and then do it. But I began to feel the difference of not thinking, and meditating. And the meditating is becoming really a gift, because I stop – and I stop behaviors that are not to my benefit. Familiar feeling behaviors that get me moody and pissy and grunchy and whatever I do, it stops it cold. And I just go, “Nope! I feel this is better,” and letting it go. Letting it go without explaining to myself why I should let it go is the greatest gift I’ve ever given myself.

JOHN (R): Interesting.

LYNDA: Why go into the whole reasons behind “How can I let this go? I’ve been like this my whole…?” I don’t do that. I’m not doing that. I’m not doing that for a minute.

JOHN (R): Right. Yeah. Yeah, why add the extra layer, right? Why bother?


JOHN: Oh yeah.

LYNDA: So it’s a beginning, and I’m very encouraged.

JOHN (R): And Elias obviously endorses this.

LYNDA: He does endorse it, and he’s very encouraging about the whole thing. He doesn’t despise small beginnings, this guy – not at all.

VAL: I use rain when I have the thinking thing going at night and I can’t sleep, and it’s very, very effective.


LYNDA: I do rain, tropical rain, with a little bit of—

ANN: Rain is the best, for whatever reason for me. (Group chatter)

VERONICA: And don’t you sleep soundly, right? Open the window…

ANN: I tried the other ones like ocean and [inaudible], but rain, for whatever reason, is just…

LYNDA: I just turn to rain.

VAL: The clarity exercise which I had – it’s really hard – attempted: The eyesight, you know, closing my eyes and that’s easy, and I can focus on sound or what have you. But to the other senses, to shut them off is very, very difficult. Like, how do you shut off the hearing aspect?

LYNDA: Or touch! I practiced going like this [demonstrates], and I’m a feely person. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: It can be very challenging, but it also is very empowering, the more that you practice it. But that, in like manner to meditation, in like manner to the sounds or any senses in relation to moving your attention away from thinking – all of this – you want a quick fix, and there isn’t one.

I would say that you want to move in directions of immediacy – which, throughout your lives, this is what you’ve moved more and more and more into: faster, faster, faster. And in that, this is also one of the reasons that I have expressed to all of you many, many, many times, [that] faster isn’t necessarily better. More is not necessarily better.

In this, learning how to quiet yourself, especially in a society that encourages you NOT to quiet yourself, in a society that encourages you to be overstimulated constantly – and it IS encouraging you to be overstimulated constantly, and it’s been doing that throughout your entire lives. You are, some of you, in the first generations of television, that television was invented and promoted after you were born, after you were a child developing. Some of you, television has been a part of your lives from the time you were born; and in that, as children, as BABIES, you’re already watching that box and being overstimulated. You are being taught from very, very, very young ages to be onslaughted with your senses. And what you do in that is you become somewhat immune to it. You are SO accustomed to it that you are somewhat desensitized with it, but you don’t know how to be quiet. You don’t know how to stop that thinking.

And, you’ve been taught from very young ages that thinking is good. You are taught throughout school, “Think more, think more, think more.” This is a tremendous amount of your life that is devoted to the expression of “think more, more, more, more, more, and it’s good.” No, it’s not. It’s unnatural. And, it becomes unhealthy.

You are living in a time framework now in which there is more dis-ease in your world, in your lives, than has ever BEEN in your history! You have brief periods of time in your history in which you create pandemics – such as the plague – mainly to cull the population, and for very few other reasons. There are some other reasons, but mainly it is to be culling the population. In that, they are short periods of time in your history, relatively speaking. Within your previous century and this century, you’ve been building and building and building more and more and more dis-ease, to the point in which you are, as a planet, the most unhealthy that you have ever been.

And a lot of this has to do with that overstimulation and overthinking. It is astounding how affecting thinking can be. It creates tension. It agitates your body. And that, over time, creates physical manifestations: anxiety, stress, tension and pressure. These are four expressions that are main contributants to almost ALL of your dis-eases.

MARK: I’m really going to have to think about all that. (Group laughter)

VERONICA: Excuse me, Elias? You’ve often referred to imagination. I’m thinking now as I’m listening to you, is there a connection? I’m just thinking, from imagining leading us to thinking too much? To me, it’s like the imagination will LEAD to that. But I know it might… There’s something wrong with coming to that conclusion.

ELIAS: Not necessarily. Imagination, yes, leads into some thinking, but in relation to what it’s designed for, what its purpose is. Thinking is a mechanism to translate. Imagination is an avenue of communication. Thinking translates what you communicate to yourself; that’s what its function is. Therefore, if you ARE engaging imagination, then yes, you would automatically be thinking to translate what you’re communicating to yourself through thinking. But that’s different.

Now, I am not expressing to any of you not to be thinking. I’m not expressing to any of you that your thought mechanism is bad. It is a very intricate part of your functioning. It’s a very important part of your functioning. It’s when it is being used incorrectly, improperly, that it becomes detrimental and destructive.

MARK: So in big cities where you’re constantly stimulated – constantly, so your thought mechanism is constantly translating all that stimulation – would it be really difficult for those people to step out of that?

ELIAS: It depends on what they make important. If they are making themselves and their awareness and their health and wellbeing important, then they will learn how to direct their attention, and what is important and what isn’t important, and to filter out.

MARK: So somehow they’re going to filter out that, shut it off somehow? Or move.

SANDRA: Elias, in most magical processes that some of us are exploring now, how does the thinking part of ourselves either play a role in that or inhibit that kind of development?

ELIAS: Excellent question. I would say it does play a significant role in a benefit AS a translating mechanism, because while you are learning in any magical process, your thinking is translating what you are learning, and that helps you to develop.

Now, understand: it isn’t thinking alone. Because when you are learning, remember: Thinking only engages one hemisphere of your brain. Therefore, you don’t learn as efficiently if you are only thinking. In the process of learning and developing in relation to magic, you are learning something new, and you are processing that information, and you are translating that information. But it’s also important for you to be communicating outwardly, therefore dialoguing with something or someone else also – sharing, because that’s a part of the processing. And, that engages both hemispheres of your brain, which allows you to actually be processing that information more accurately and developing it more effectively.

How thinking can be hindering in relation to magic is that repeat thinking – overthinking. What does overthinking mean? Overthinking is what you do when you can’t figure something out. When you don’t give yourself an immediate answer, you keep thinking about it. And you keep thinking that if you keep thinking, that the answer will come to you. Or, this is how you figure something out, is that you think about it more and more and more. That’s the method to figure something out. No, that’s not the method to figure something out.

You think about something that’s new; you’re processing; you’re translating the information; and when you get to the point in which you recognize that you can’t figure something out, you don’t know what’s next, you stop.

SANDRA: Okay. Stop the thinking.



ELIAS: You stop thinking about it. You do something else.

SANDRA: Okay, so now you said something else very interesting. You talked about the right brain with thinking and translating, but then there was a communication action also going on. Could you elucidate a little more that communication? Is it imaging? Is it the imagination, like Veronica was talking about? Or is it—

ELIAS: That depends on the individual.

SANDRA: The individual and the technique, for instance?



ELIAS: It depends on the individual and what you’re doing, what you’re presenting –

SANDRA: Okay, so say you’re a necromancer, for instance.

ELIAS: Very well.

SANDRA: Because I heard something recently about necromancy. I don’t know a thing about it, but it was interesting because there was a process where there is, I think it was like an opening to explore something beyond the actual physical five senses, but then there is an aspect of communicating and translating. Now, do all forms of magic have that kind of a process, or is that just specific to necromancy?

For instance, if you want to cast a spell, if you want to be a necromancer, what’s the commonality? Could it be the trust? Or the passion? I’m just trying to understand what is the foundation of all magical processes, so then the individual here who has their unique way to get there has some platform to work from, if there is such a thing. I’m not sure.

ELIAS: Necromancy would not necessarily be classified as magic.

SANDRA: Okay, fine. Okay, so we’ll eliminate that. A magical system, then.

ELIAS: A magical system.


ELIAS: In relation to magic, partially it would be… a foundational piece would be trust. Partially, it would be the openness to accept what seems to be unacceptable.

SANDRA: Okay. Oh, beautiful. Trust and openness.

ELIAS: Because magic is simply the impossible being possible. But that sounds very simplistic, and expressing in that manner, I would say most people don’t necessarily make the connection of what that means. And therefore, in that, it’s a matter of being open to accept what you automatically want to express is unacceptable – it can’t happen.

SANDRA: So the thinking there has to stop.


SANDRA: Okay. So that’s—

ELIAS: Because in that, the thinking has to stop temporarily. Then it has to be redirected. It has to be redirected in the capacity of that openness to do its job, the openness to allowing it to do what its natural function is – not to figure out, but to simply translate what’s being presented to it.

Thinking doesn’t figure out. Thinking doesn’t give you a solution. That’s not where your solutions come from. Your solutions come from other parts of you. Your solutions come from the communication parts of you. They come from imagination, from impressions, from intuition, from body impulses, NOT thinking impulses. Because thinking impulses can lead you in directions that are not necessarily beneficial. But physical impulses, senses, all of your outer senses, all of your inner senses: these are all avenues of communications. And that’s where your figuring out comes from.

Many times, your figuring out is coming from your outer senses. You hear something, you see something, you smell something. You don’t even realize that that’s what is actually in play with your figuring out. You are reading a textbook in school. You’re doing your homework. You are trying to figure out a solution to a particular problem. And in that, you’re thinking, thinking, thinking and you’re giving yourself nothing. And then you begin daydreaming, because you’re bored and you are frustrated and you can’t figure out what you need to figure out. And you’re daydreaming and you’re drifting, and SUDDENLY you have the answer.

And you can be puzzling, puzzling, puzzling, thinking, thinking, thinking, and you’re not figuring it out. But you STOP thinking and the answer comes to you, because it’s coming from an avenue of communication, not from your thinking. Thinking doesn’t communicate to you.

ANN: I want to ask you – [to John H] and you can chime in if I get this wrong – but like John always says, it’s this thing of most people, if they can’t figure something out, like at his job or whatever, or myself with technology, they just give up and they can’t get it. Or if it’s something that needs to be solved real fast, he’ll always say he’s not the one that’s going to do it. But if it’s this long-term, really difficult thing to figure out, he keeps at it, he keeps at it and he’ll figure it out. So obviously, he’s not thinking if that doesn’t... What is he doing? It’s his long-term process. Like he’s the long hauler. What’s he doing?

ELIAS: Watching. Paying attention. Observing. Gathering information, piece by piece.

SANDRA: So he has trust that if he uses this process that he will create the outcome he wishes to create, and then therefore he’s successful. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: That doesn’t mean that he necessarily would frame it in that manner and explain it in that manner, but yes, that is what happens.

SANDRA: Okay, but I’m trying to take what we just discussed and bring it into a magical arena where, say, you want to approach all this. This would be one example of how to —


SANDRA: — set the stage, so to speak, to create magical action.

I just wanted to say one other thing: Isn’t magic creating the outcome deliberately that you wish to create in physical reality, which is the impossible becoming possible? Because nobody really does that until they’ve awakened to the fact that they can do that. We’re all creating reality, but when you KNOW you are, and you deliberately decide to intend to create, that’s magic, right?


SANDRA: Okay. Thank you.

JOHN H: Yeah, I wouldn’t relate what I do in magical terms. (Laughs) But at lot of times I’ll try to think through this thing that just seems impossible and it won’t come to me then. It will like maybe when I’m taking a shower, or maybe early in the morning, like when I’m waking up or something, and I’m not even thinking about it and all of a sudden I realize either something else to try or figure it out.

ELIAS: Precisely.

ANN: That’s how we all do it.

JOHN H: Yeah. (Group chatter) But I have confidence that I’m going to figure it out, I think.

ANN: Maybe that’s a thing too, because you take an extraordinarily longer time. I mean, you don’t give up. I’m not saying you take a long time to figure something out; I’m saying you will keep at it until you figure it out, where I give up and just go, “Eh, I can’t figure it out.”

VAL: But you’re getting that information in quiet moments.

JOHN H: Yeah, usually. I mean, it really depends on how hard it is, like sometimes you can just think it through.

ANN: Oh, can you though? But see, that’s what I’m wondering, because you say you can think it through, and Elias is saying you CAN’T think it through, so I’m wondering what he’s talking about. That’s what I want to know, is what the difference is. What’s he really doing? Is he really thinking it through?

SANDRA: What are you doing, John?

VERONICA: Well, he’s TELLING you.

ELIAS: Yes, in a manner of speaking, because what he’s doing is he’s paying attention to other communications, and that is being translated. Therefore, thinking it through can be terminology for using imagination and translating that imagination into a manner that is developing the solution.

ANN: So until we’re really aware of the differences between thinking and imagination, sometimes people would probably use the words interchangeably. But there is a difference.


ANN: And it’s just becoming aware of those. Or, I would want to become aware of the difference.

MARK: I have a question. In relation to thinking, if you’re constantly filtering information and trying to come up with solutions, most people would say that your thought process is continually going but it’s not repetitive; it’s new information all the time. Is that translating? Or is that continuous thinking?

I’ll give you an example. My mind rarely stops. And typically it’s not repetitive; it’s not the same thing over and over and over and over again. It’s different information. It’s trying to come up with different solutions.

ELIAS: Different solutions to what?

MARK: Different…

FEMALE: Dents in the truck?

MARK: Yeah, there you go – to what’s going on in my day. I’m working on my garage, whatever I’m doing. So it’s constantly in the thought. Whatever I’m doing, my mind is continually moving, it seems like. It’s very rarely quiet. I want to know if that’s translating, or is that repetitive thinking? I don’t even know if repetitive thinking is the words to define it.

ELIAS: I understand.

MARK: I don’t really know how to define it, because I don’t know the difference.

ANN: That’s a good question.

ELIAS: You THINK that repetitive thinking is only when you’re thinking something over and over again, the same thing over and over again. But repetitive thinking can be more than that.

Your thinking is always translating; it’s whether it’s translating new information or it’s translating already known information. That is the difference. When you are puzzling something and you are translating new information – and this is what you were expressing in thinking it through – you’re continuing to give yourself new information through your imagination. You may not actually objectively realize what you’re doing, but that’s what you’re doing. And therefore, you’re giving yourself new information, and you’re continuing to process that by translating it. And it eventually gives you a solution, an answer.

Moving in a direction of constantly thinking, thinking about whatever it is that you’re doing, is that translating? Thinking is always translating, but is it translating new information or is it translating already known information?

MARK: So let me give you an example. My mind rarely… I don’t know about other people. I’ve got no clue. It rarely goes to nothing.

JOHN H: Mine’s the same way.

MARK: It rarely goes to nothing. Actually, I can’t even remember previously when that has happened, okay? And you know I’m listening to you, and I’m thinking, “Oh man, I’m screwed.” Seriously. Because my mind is just going, going, going all the time. So if I’m driving, you’d think I would get peace, like… and I do get a level of peace, even though my mind’s constantly going. I left New York to come here. I’m in my vehicle. It’s kind of like a form of meditation. I’m listening to Elias sessions – which I’m going to talk to you about in a second – and while I’m listening to them, my mind’s going and it’s constantly trying to apply what I’m hearing to how it’s going to help me. So I’m constantly thinking about it. I’m trying to… It’s not repetitive. It’s not…

JOHN H: But it’s still going, going, going.

JOHN (R): Yeah. Same boat. That’s kind of what I was getting at earlier.

MARK: I don’t know if that’s healthy. Am I trying to… Should I try to shut that off? (Group chatter)

ELIAS: No. No. It’s not. And this is what I was expressing, why so many of you have physical manifestations, why you create physical manifestations so much easier.

MARK: Okay. I’m listening.

ELIAS: Because this piece is NOT healthy. It creates a constant running tension and pressure in your body consciousness, which makes it much easier for you to create physical manifestations in relation to anything. Therefore, ANY time that you are creating a communication to yourself through a physical manifestation, it’s much easier to do that because you’re constantly thinking, because you haven’t learned how to use that thought mechanism properly and correctly. It’s a translating mechanism. You don’t need to be thinking the entire time you’re listening to one of my conversations with someone.

When your thinking comes into play is when you are in a situation that you might now recall something that you listened to and apply it then – not thinking, thinking, thinking all the time. You’re not IN a situation; you are simply listening to information. If you could listen to that information quietly and calmly, and be receiving it and assimilating it without thinking, you would be able to apply it much more effectively. And, for all of you that create physical manifestations frequently or as a usual avenue of communication, that would be much, much less and much more difficult to do if you weren’t thinking all the time.

JOHN (R): Is there a moment where people like myself or maybe Mark, where generally people aren’t thinking, “Maybe I could use the guidepost of oh, now I know what you mean, I can expand that.” Does that make sense?


MARK: It does to me. (Group chatter)

JOHN (R): It does to you.

MARK: Yes.

JOHN (R): Maybe… Okay. (Group chatter)

ANN: [Inaudible] to Elias – he’s thinking. He’s thinking!

FEMALE: Elias is thinking.

JOHN H: Yeah. Elias, cut that out. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: I would say, (pause) is there some avenue in which you could USE all of that thinking?

JOHN (R): That’s not what I asked.

ELIAS: But is there—

ANN: He can expand. (Group chatter)

JOHN (R) Is there a time of day… When I first awaken, I am shooom! into thought mode. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: I understand. (Group chatter)

JOHN (R): I’m trying to identify a natural —

ELIAS: I would say, —

JOHN: Yeah, a time where generally people don’t use their mind, that maybe that becomes a signpost.

ELIAS: First of all, it would be very individual. Secondly, I would say that it would be related to some time that you are more inclined to be focused on ONE of your senses. When you’re playing music, you’re more inclined to be using your hearing more than the other senses. You are paying attention to your sense of touch, but you’re paying attention to your hearing more. A time in which you are paying more attention to one sense than all of the others could be a beginning, because you may have less – not none, but less – of a tendency to be thinking as much. But even in that, —

JOHN (R): The younger generation is really screwed, right? With Instagram and TikTok and nonstop iPhones in their hands? They start when they’re 2, I guess, these days, right? (Group chatter) Talk about overstimulation.

JOHN H: Not for me.

ELIAS: I would say perhaps yes, perhaps no, because they aren’t always thinking. They are using their senses. They are definitely using their sense of vision, but they’re not always thinking in relation to what they’re doing.

SOMETIMES they are. Now, I would say that those that are tremendously in a direction of gaming, they are thinking. But I would say that they are also thinking differently.

ANN: Could you tell one way if you’re like overthinking or just using thinking properly? Can you tell by your body? Like if you’re more relaxed, are you probably not thinking as much or overthinking? And if you’re not… ? So that would be an indication.

ELIAS: But… Yes, I would agree, but that would also be a matter of being very much aware and in touch with your body, and knowing whether you are actually relaxed or whether you’re not. And I would say that most people are not that in touch with their body. They are holding tension and they don’t even realize it.

MARK: How many people actually know the difference between thinking and translating? I mean, I’m just… Not that I want to be the dunce here, but—

ELIAS: No. I understand.

MARK: I’m telling you, I don’t really… I don’t comprehend the difference – I don’t.

ELIAS: I understand.

MARK: It’s obviously not good. (Laughs)

ELIAS: It’s not a matter of not good; it’s a matter of—

MARK: It’s habitual.

ELIAS: It’s a matter of what’s important to you.

GROUP: There we go. Touche! (Group laughter and chatter)

ELIAS: It’s genuinely not a matter of what’s good or what isn’t; it is a matter of what is important to you.

MARK: Define that in relation to this example.

ELIAS: I expressed to all of you that for the most part, most of you – I would say ALL of you in this present company – your health is not your first priority. It is not what is the most important to you. Therefore, if you are given a choice between your health and something else that IS automatically important to you, you’ll choose the other.

A person that smokes will choose smoking over their health, because smoking is more important. A person that doesn’t want to run will choose not running over their health first, until something happens that makes your health more important. When you move in a direction – IF you move in a direction – of generating something physical, something in relation to your health that threatens your health in a significant, serious manner, that debilitates you in some manner, that hinders you in some significant manner, until you do something such as that, most of you will put your health as a lesser importance to what you automatically do. If you automatically are thinking, thinking, thinking, you will put your health below that. Moving in a direction of instant gratification, or what’s the shortcut, or what is something I can do faster, that’s more important than—

JOHN (R): Why were you looking at me when you said that? (Group chatter)

ELIAS: Because that was what YOU presented.

ANN: Because you getting irritated when you meditate, not wanting to do it, is more important than—

JOHN: Oh right then, it’s just like… Yeah. Okay. Yeah. (Group chatter)

ELIAS: In that, it’s a matter of recognizing what your priorities are. What is important to you? This is the reason that we’re having this conversation, because importance is significant. This is what rules your lives. This is what you follow, and it affects you. It affects you physically, it affects you emotionally, it affects you spiritually, it affects you mentally.

And in that, this is the reason that this is such a significant subject. And in that, it isn’t bad that you don’t place your physical health as your first priority. It may not BE something that is the most important to you. I would say that what would be significant TO be one of your most important factors is your wellbeing – health – to significantly follow that. But it is each of your choices. It is a matter of what you view as the most important factor. What is important to you?

ANN: And basically what we’re doing in every moment is what the most important thing in that moment is to us.

ELIAS: Precisely. And that’s the point, is to evaluate, “Is that what I WANT to be the most important? Is that what I want to prioritize with? What do I actually want to be important and make important to myself?” And in that, that’s what you pay attention to and evaluate with yourself.

And in that, when I say to you, such as with you [to Veronica], “Stop making your bladder so important,” (group laughter) the reason I say that is because the more you pay attention to it, the more you CONCENTRATE on it, the more you CREATE it!

VERONICA: No! I have been [inaudible] with it, saying, “Dammit, everything I try is not working.” So I, you know, take care of myself, right? But why isn’t it going? Why isn’t it strengthening? (Group chatter)

ELIAS: You wouldn’t ask that question if you weren’t paying attention to it. (Loud group chatter)

(Repeating quietly) You wouldn’t ask the question if you weren’t paying attention to it. If it wasn’t important, —

VERONICA: It’s a 24-hour-a-day situation.

ELIAS: Precisely, which is what we were discussing about physical manifestations and how difficult and challenging it is to not pay attention to something that is a physical manifestation.

VERONICA: So over a significant period of time, accepting it, I do not see where it’s diminishing, that the situation is clearing itself. I figured I’d accepted it.

ELIAS: Because you are still paying attention to it. And accepting it is very different from resignation.

VERONICA: Okay, I get that.

ANN: This is tough.

VERONICA: [Inaudible] is expectation? In the future I should not have an expectation, and the situation will continue or the body will regenerate itself.

ELIAS: It can regenerate itself without you concentrating on what you don’t want.

FEMALE: But you have to believe it.

FEMALE: That’s really hard.

ELIAS: It IS. This is the point. (Group chatter) Yes, this is the point, and this is the reason that we’re HAVING this conversation and why I have presented this subject, because it IS difficult, it IS challenging, and it’s something that you’re doing every day, every hour of every day. And it is very affecting. This is what you pay attention to.

I have expressed this repeatedly: You ONLY pay attention to what is important. That doesn’t mean it’s good; that doesn’t mean you like it; it simply means you’ve made it important. You don’t pay attention to anything that isn’t important to you – you simply don’t.

ANN: It’s just so weird to me, because it’s not like I’m consciously selecting what’s important to me then, because I would say my health… I don’t know, you’re right; it’s not THE most important, but it’s pretty high up there in importances. Or I would say relationships, or… You know, those are important things to me, but what you’re saying is that they’re not, because I’m—

ELIAS: HIS health is more important to you than your health.

ANN: Yes. And he doesn’t take care of it. No, I’m sorry. (Group laughter and chatter) Okay. All right. So let me think about this.

ELIAS: Because HE’S very important to you, and because you don’t want to lose him.

ANN: [To John H] You’re not going [inaudible]. (Group laughter)

Okay, but aside from that (group laughter), I just really, really… Seriously, in all seriousness, I want to know, because the tricky part for me is when you ask me what’s important, I’m not going to say the wart on my toe is important, but obviously it is.

ELIAS: Yes, it is.

ANN: Because it’s been there. But I think I might have… I might be on the threshold. I’ll check in later. But I would have said no, that’s not. It’s so hard to figure out, but I guess the answer is what I’m doing.

ELIAS: It’s not hard to figure out, because whatever it is that you’re doing is important.

ANN: I know. I just said that.

ELIAS: Yes. THAT’S what you make important. Whatever it is that you’re doing, whatever it is that you’re thinking about, those are the things that you’re making important. Therefore, it isn’t hard to figure out – it’s very obvious. It’s blatant. It’s right in front of you.

ANN: It’s right in front of our face.


ANN: Can I ask just one thing? I wanted to circle back before, because I thought this was really interesting, that when she asked her magic question, almost everything that you gave is like a good recipe just for living a life. Except, except – no, this is good, though – except that openness to accept what seems to be unacceptable. That seems like the only magical part of that whole formula.

JOHN (R): What’s magical about living?

ANN: What’s magical about that?

JOHN: Yeah.

ANN: To me? To accept the unacceptable?

KAREN: That could be a life thing, too.

ANN: No. Okay. All right. I capitulate. (Group chatter)

SANDRA: So that’s what a magician is. A magician is someone who’s living in this state all the time. (Group chatter)

JOHN (R): Say it again.

SANDRA: A magician is sort of in that state of being all the time.


ANN: You know how you gave us a formula for how you create reality?


ANN: Can you give us a formula for magic?

VERONICA: He did! (Group laughter and chatter)

Elias, can we use the theory or formula of magic for correcting a bladder situation?




VERONICA: All right.

ANN: And being open to accept what seems to be unacceptable or impossible, that’s just like when I notice that something has disappeared that I know is there, and I’m not like “How could that…?” I’m like “Okay, it disappeared. It’ll reappear sometime.” That’s being open to it.


ANN: Or when I see… Oh, it’s like what you were saying, that sometimes you’ll see something out of your corner of your eye and then you try to explain it away. “It could be a fairy I just saw” – yeah, it could.


ANN: I’m open to it. (Elias laughs)

MARK: Before we end this session, I want to ask a question that more than one person wants the answer to.


MARK: It’s not really a question. I listened to a recent session with a guy by the name of John. [The reference is to Session 20211017]

ELIAS: Yes. (Group chatter)

MARK: On the way here. And in that session – I’ve been listening to your sessions for many, many years – in that session I heard you advise him to leave his girlfriend, move away—

ELIAS: That is definitely an interpretation, yes.

MARK: Okay. Do you have another interpretation?

ELIAS: I encouraged him. I said —

ANN: He said it wasn’t of his benefit – it wasn’t of his greatest benefit.

MARK: All right. That’s a good response, is that is an interpretation, but I’m pretty sure it would be everybody’s interpretation.

ANN: You can’t pigeonhole Elias, though.

MARK: So my question is… I don’t know if it’s a question?


MARK: It’s just, that’s very unusual for you. Would anybody else here agree with that?

ANN: That IS unusual for you to say.

ELIAS: I would agree. Yes.

MARK: Not that it is bad, or…

ELIAS: No, I would agree.

ANN: So we were wondering what was different in that situation?

ELIAS: I would agree. I don’t generally move in that direction with most people.

MARK: No, you don’t. I was actually shocked. I was like, “What!?”

ELIAS: Yes. I generally don’t express in that manner.

I’ve been engaging this individual for quite some time, and I would say that… (pause) Let me express in this manner: I engage each individual in relation to their energy and (pause) what they are requesting, whether it be spoken or not.

MARK: I get that.

ELIAS: This individual is making these choices himself, but there’s an element in that that he almost feels guilty about.

MARK: I sensed that too, yeah.

ELIAS: It’s very difficult for him to move in these directions, even though this is what he wants to do, and even though these are his choices and he knows that this is the most beneficial direction for him. In this, what I have expressed with him is, in a manner of speaking, giving him permission to do what HE is choosing.

You are correct: I rarely do this. Generally speaking, for the most part, the only time that I would move in this direction is when someone is about to disengage – which I have expressed similarly to some individuals when they are about to disengage, in a manner of speaking giving them permission to do it. They’ve already made the choice. They’ve already decided to move in certain directions; they’re already doing it. But in an expression of support to aid in easing them into that choice that they are already choosing, I have occasionally expressed that type of direction in which basically what I am doing is giving them permission. They don’t actually need my permission, but they feel better when they have it, because what they are translating that into is giving themselves permission to do what they’ve already chosen. He already chose what he is doing. He already knew.

MARK: No, it was a great session. I mean it was really good.

ANN: I get that.

VAL: I resonated with it very much.

ANN: When I was first dating John and I felt guilty, and I remember you said to me, you go, “Go enjoy your new relationship,” and I felt that (exhales). The guilt just… And then I went to John. I was already with him. I had made the decision, but I was holding on to that guilt, and when you said that to me, it did give me permission – or I gave… You helped me give myself permission.

ELIAS: Precisely. And that is—

ANN: To just let it go. And that was so nice.

MARK: I’m not sure why that was important for me to bring it up.

SANDY: It will become clear later.

ELIAS: Because it’s something that struck you, and something that you noticed and that isn’t usual. And you are correct: it isn’t usual. I don’t usually move in that direction. But there are times and situations with certain people that have already made certain choices but that are needlessly expressing restricting themselves and guilt in relation to what they are choosing. It’s SO unnecessary, and knowing that I’m not influencing because the person has already made the choice, I have the freedom to be encouraging in that manner and to be supportive in that manner. If someone has not already made the choice, then I don’t necessarily have that freedom to express in that manner.

MARK: Well, that’s interesting. That’s very interesting, actually.

VAL: That would be intrusive.

ELIAS: It WOULD be. You have your choices, and knowing that you are a very suggestible species it is, yes, intrusive to generate suggestions when you haven’t made a decision. When you haven’t made a choice yet, leading you in a direction of a choice is a direction that is, in a manner of speaking, unacceptable.

MARK: Well, I don’t know about that guy, but I know I appreciate what you’ve done for me, and I’m sure everybody else—

ANN: Oh yeah. Amen! (Group chatter)

ELIAS: You are welcome.

VERONICA: Elias, may I ask you one question before you go?


VERONICA: A few months, I was able to work with a ping pong ball and move the ping pong ball.

ELIAS: Congratulations! (Group cheers and applause)

VERONICA: It was a “Eureka!” magical moment. Then I tried it again, and I couldn’t get it to move. (Elias chuckles) But I was feeling confident, and I thought this is easy now, right? But why…? And I haven’t gone back to it. There’ve been other things I’ve been playing with. But why didn’t that work again?

ELIAS: THAT is very, very common.


ELIAS: That happens with people very frequently. You actually do accomplish something, you surprise yourself, but what you aren’t realizing is that when you did it you were relaxed, you were trusting and you weren’t thinking about it. You weren’t moving in the direction—

VERONICA: Oh, it was my objective. No, I had been working on it for a while.

ELIAS: I understand. But when it happens, the reason it happens is because you have a moment of trust and you have a moment in which you let go, and then you accomplish. And when you try to re-create, it isn’t successful.

(Emphatically) Never try to re-create. (Group laughter) Always move in the direction of creating new. (Group chatter) When you try to re-create, you won’t be successful.

VERONICA: Well, maybe a larger ball or another object?

ELIAS: Or it could be the same object, but do it in a different manner. Place it somewhere different.

FEMALE: Levitate it.

ELIAS: Or have it move in a different direction. Have it move up slightly—

VERONICA: Teleport it.

ELIAS: Or have it move sideways. Have it move slightly different than what you had it move to begin with.

VERONICA: Oh, anything, yeah! (Group chatter)

FEMALE: Simple as [inaudible].

VERONICA: I thought of that.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Yes.

JOHN: Are we still in the science wave?


ANN: And this wave has gone for an eternity! (Group chatter)

ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well, my friends. I express tremendous, tremendous encouragement and support to all of you. And remember: Think about what you’re thinking about (group laughter) and what you are making important. (Elias chuckles)

GROUP: Thank you very much. Thank you.

ELIAS: In tremendous, tremendous love to each of you as always, au revoir.

GROUP: Au revoir. Thank you. (Applause)

(Elias departs after 1 hour 28 minutes. Total session time was 2 hours 37 minutes)

©2021 Mary Ennis. All Rights Reserved.

Copyright 2021 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.