Degrees of Trauma and Remembrance in the Two Abused Generations
Topics:
“Degrees of Trauma and Remembrance in the Two Abused Generations”
“Extensions of Influences and Observing Those in Others”
“More Examples of the Influences of Trauma”
“How to Make Others Feel Important and Valuable”
“Why the Rightness and the Honor Disappeared”
Session 20201031
“Degrees of Trauma and Remembrance in the Two Abused Generations”
“Extensions of Influences and Observing Those in Others”
“More Examples of the Influences of Trauma”
“How to Make Others Feel Important and Valuable”
“Why the Rightness and the Honor Disappeared”
Saturday, October 31, 2020 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and Vivienne (Eliza)
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
VIVIENNE: Hello, Elias!
ELIAS: (Laughs) And what shall we discuss?
VIVIENNE: Right. I’ve got a lot to discuss, so I’m going to jump right in there. I would really like to thank you so much for the group session last week. It helped make so much sense of so many topics for me, because I was starting to feel that… Yeah. I just felt I can’t go on like this. It’s just… Nothing’s happening. Anyway, there was always a piece missing, and this seems to be it. So, everything has seemed so wrong, so off in a horrible, unreal nightmare’s way, and I’ve never been entirely certain if I was making it all up or at the very least exaggerating things. And not being able to understand the purpose of these experiences has been the worst part for me, because it all seems senseless and pointless. And I mean, my motivation was just down the toilet really.
So, I do have some questions. I have questions and observations. So, the first question is with regards to that. When I was a teenager in Canada and would talk about my experiences, no one else seemed to relate. And I felt very alone in having this challenging situation with my family and no one else understanding, some even suggesting that that had been my fault. So, in view of the fact these people were also part of those two generations, I don’t understand why.
ELIAS: Now, remember: not everyone was experiencing trauma in relation to that. And in that, percentages of people are not evenly spread throughout the world. Therefore, it depends on where you were as a child, and it may not necessarily even be where you were in a particular country. It could be where you were in a particular town or in a particular neighborhood; it depends. There are varying degrees and there are variables that are in play, but as I expressed, not everyone experienced trauma.
VIVIENNE: Okay.
ELIAS: And even in the expressions of trauma, it varies. There are varying degrees. Some individuals experienced much more, some experienced much less, and in that, in general there is that tremendous number of people that were affected, especially in those first two generations, which affected approximately 70% of the population throughout the world. But in that, the expressions of trauma vary in relation to individuals.
Now, also, understand: another factor in this is that there is a considerable number of people that don’t remember. Therefore, by the time you would be an adolescent, by the time your peers were adolescents, it is likely that many of them already had no memory of any traumatic events occurring in their own lives.
VIVIENNE: Okay. Okay.
ELIAS: Therefore, that is also a factor. I would say to you presently, I am engaging MANY individuals in which one child in the home remembered everything and the other child remembers nothing.
VIVIENNE: Oh, okay. Okay.
ELIAS: And that creates a very difficult dynamic. And in relation to your experience with other individuals or your peers that may have expressed in a contrary manner, if they were expressing in a manner that they didn’t believe you or that they were expressing in harsh manners, this is an indicator in itself that they simply [inaudible] and they were being defensive.
VIVIENNE: Okay. Okay.
ELIAS: Therefore, I would say that that I [inaudible] and acknowledge to you that that is also a situation that exacerbated these experiences and created an atmosphere in which there is even more difficulty surrounding the experiences, because no one talked about it.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Well, I was going to get to that. But just before that, I suppose like for me, both of my parents were actually involved. My father fought during the war, and my mother was a nurse who often was chosen to deal with some of the most harrowing cases and injuries. So, I don’t know if that qualifies me for experiencing trauma, but I was affected by that energy.
ELIAS: Definitely.
VIVIENNE: Yeah, okay. That’s what I thought. So, another question I have is I didn’t understand the piece about people becoming self-righteous afterwards. Was this because it was a reaction to the lack of rightness and honor?
ELIAS: Yes.
VIVIENNE: Okay. All right. Perfect. And another bit that I wondered about: my mother’s side of the family, they seem to have had a history of fighting with each other, but I’m assuming that was a separate issue from the influence of the war but possibly exacerbated by it as well?
ELIAS: Correct. Correct.
VIVIENNE: Okay. All right. So, those were my main questions. Yeah. The things that I’ve noticed… Okay. So, I’m practically noticing things on a daily basis at this point, moment by moment, but I recognize that no one wanted to admit that anything was wrong, and if I persisted then I was held responsible.
So as a consequence, I can’t stand any form of denial, or what you refer to as avoidance. It becomes almost unbearable for me. And how it affected me was that if everyone was seeing life in this distorted way through avoidance, then I couldn’t trust anyone about anything, including not being able to trust myself. And I also couldn’t trust them not to be hurtful to me in some way, because I have frequently experienced a really horrible scenario where I’m triggered, which then causes others to be reactive to my being triggered and attacking me, and then I feel overwhelmed and responsible and guilty. And I assume that this is a reflection to me of this issue of denial—what I call denial, but avoidance.
ELIAS: Yes.
VIVIENNE: Yeah. (Sighs) Yeah.
ELIAS: Which would be the influences that you have, reactive to that, and how it has influenced you in manners in which you feel that there are certain expressions that are intolerable.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s exactly right. That’s the expression, that I simply can’t live with it (laughs) if people go in this direction. And yeah, I see that now as an overreaction on my part now, but I didn’t.
ELIAS: I understand. And that is excellent and I commend you, that you ARE seeing it and that you can recognize that as an influence of your experiences and how that has influenced you in manners that are not necessarily beneficial, because they [inaudible] very black and white, and to be intolerant and to not have the ability – and this is not about objective choices, because you are correct, you don’t see it. It is an influence that is automatic, AND most of these influences, most of the people such as yourself, think that they are good, and this also creates that righteous piece.
VIVIENNE: Ah, right. Yes.
ELIAS: That you are more righteous if you are expressing in a particular manner; if you are disclosing; if you are, in YOUR perception, being honest.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Yes. Yes.
ELIAS: That people that are not disclosing or people that are not talking about an issue, then they are not being honest.
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: And in that, there is no room for tolerance of that type of behavior. And in that, you actually believe that you are RIGHT. You don’t necessarily see how that behavior influences expressions that you actually don’t want or don’t like, such as cutting yourself off from other people, isolating or not having the ability to generate significant relationships with other people, or having difficulties continuously. These are all extensions of those influences that you don’t even realize.
VIVIENNE: Yes. That’s the next part. (Laughs) I’ve also realized that all my life, I’ve felt that I should be quiet. I should stay in the wings, be in the shadows, be invisible – but a part of me really resents this. It makes me really, really angry. I’ve never made my presence felt anywhere, and it feels like it’s always someone else’s turn to have the limelight, but it’s never my turn. And that just really makes me angry, and I just want to scream, “Shut up! Shut up!” And I assume that this is associated with that feeling insignificant as a child also.
ELIAS: Most definitely.
VIVIENNE: Yeah. Yeah. And also, what you just said. And yeah, I’ve been thinking about that, because I (sighs)… I want to overcome that, because you’re quite right: I do end up isolated from other people.
ELIAS: Now, in this, I would say that this is an excellent example, because I would say that this is a very common situation, and at this point in time you can begin to see people from a different perspective. Because I would say that yes, there are many people that have incorporated influences similar to yourself in which silence or not sharing, not talking about experiences, has been interpreted as withholding, and therefore is not honest and therefore is intolerable. BUT—I would say that there are likely as many, if not more, individuals that are the ones that you look at as BEING those dishonest ones that aren’t sharing, that are withholding, that don’t talk about – and that also is a very common influence of these experiences, is that you recognize that you have for most of your life moved in a direction of trying to be invisible and being quiet, but you also want people to acknowledge experiences. Other people may be in a situation in which they may not be as much in the shadows but they don’t disclose, that they don’t share their experiences, and THEY perceive that as privacy.
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: And that they don’t WANT to share their experiences, that they shouldn’t HAVE to. And this is not simply individuals that remember; many of these individuals that don’t share are people that DON’T remember, but they have this influence of being shielded and hiding, because that was what was very much expressed to them. Just as you learned to be quiet and be invisible, many, many, many, many, many of individuals learned the same. And in that, they either were—or became—righteous in that hypervigilance of honesty and disclosure OR very protective of their privacy.
VIVIENNE: Right.
ELIAS: Therefore, in that generation, then, there is conflict in relation to how the influences play out and therefore how you interact with each other.
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: Which then, once again, exacerbates the situation and creates more division and perpetuates the difficulties, and perpetuates the situation in which individuals are not addressing to their experiences.
VIVIENNE: Yes. (Sighs)
ELIAS: Therefore, in that, perhaps now you can be observing other people from a different perspective, and that will help you to be less black and white and to move in a direction in which you are not so intolerant of people that are non-disclosing or non-sharing, recognizing their influences with them that stem from similar experiences.
VIVIENNE: Yeah. Okay.
Then other observations are that I noticed that I feel that if I just do things as perfectly as possible, even something like washing up the dishes, then maybe, just maybe, I won’t incur anyone else’s wrath and be punished. So, I’m always trying to do everything just right, just so there won’t be anything that will happen that’s bad—which doesn’t work, but I noticed it. I noticed myself doing it.
ELIAS: Yes. I would definitely acknowledge that and agree. And this is also another very common influence, as I was expressing with our group when they were asking about what would some of the influences be, one of them being perfectionism.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Yeah.
ELIAS: Always wanting to excel, being the best at anything, doing everything right, being on top of everything. I would say another influence is for people to be very busy.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Yeah.
ELIAS: Always being productive.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s a good one.
ELIAS: But then it could move in the OPPOSITE direction also, with [inaudible], in which they lack motivation, that they have been dishonored and devalued to such a degree, they have been made to feel and to perceive themselves to be so unimportant, that they simply are not motivated, and they do what they perceive to be [only what is] absolutely necessary. Therefore, they may go to a job and they may work, but they aren’t inspired by their work and they aren’t in a position in which they enjoy it, and therefore, they aren’t motivated. And they may actually be moving through many different jobs because they aren’t motivated in any of them. And when they AREN’T at their job they aren’t doing anything, or they aren’t doing anything that other people would perceive as productive. They are always doing something, but they aren’t necessarily doing anything that other people would consider to be productive—(emphasizing) because they aren’t motivated, and they aren’t motivated because they perceive themselves to be unimportant. Therefore, what is the point? And that is ANOTHER influence of these experiences and traumas that people have experienced, especially in those first two generations.
Therefore, the influences of these experiences run the gamut, and they are so diverse. And that has created these two generations having so much difficulty with themselves, with each other, with relationships. You will notice that in those two generations, they have the statistically highest rate of dissolving relationships, because they can’t seem to move in a direction in which they can make those relationships successful--which is tremendously understandable!
This is the reason that I incorporate so many conversations about relationships with people, and explaining and giving them information and giving them tools how to be moving forward and moving in a direction in which they CAN be successful with relationships. But the difficulty is that if the individual can’t see the influences of their self with their own experiences, then regardless of how much information I give them in relation to how they can create a successful and lasting relationship, it likely WON’T be successful, because they are battling with these pieces that are so tremendously affecting and are constantly undermining all of their efforts in successful directions.
It is (sighs) quite distressing, and I would say that it is, at this point, exceptionally important that people have this information and that people can move in a direction of healing, and therefore being able to move forward in self-awareness and experiencing that interconnectedness—not simply with other people or with their world, with THEMSELF, which is the most important.
And I would be exceptionally encouraging of you, my friend, that you have been recognizing a considerable amount of what has been in play with you. That is tremendous!
VIVIENNE: Thank you. I have a few more. (Laughs)
ELIAS: Very well.
VIVIENNE: Another one is the financial game that we all have to play, and how it made me feel inadequate because it defined – well, I thought it defined who I was, and I was a nonproductive member of society. So, that was another piece that came to me.
ELIAS: I would definitely agree. And I would say that in this, you also have–in like manner to many individuals—the added piece of being in a relationship with a partner who is charged with being responsible for the financial part of the family, and to a degree—not entirely, but to a degree—he falls in the category of the other individuals that I was expressing, with the influence of not necessarily being tremendously motivated in relation to jobs.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Yes.
ELIAS: And because of that, then he creates situations in which the jobs are not ongoing. And in that, I would say that it is very, very common for individuals to justify that and express that that isn’t them, it is this company or that company and what is happening with that company or this business and what is occurring within the business. But the point is that the individual chose that business, and out of all the businesses in the world, out of all the companies in the world they chose that one. Or they choose consistently businesses that have difficulties and that can’t maintain their employees, which is entirely reasonable, because that is what you all do—you draw yourselves to what matches you.
Therefore, if you are drawing yourself to a business, you would draw yourself to a business that has difficulties also. And in that, you match. And I would say that this creates another situation which exacerbates the experiences on both sides. It exacerbates the experience for someone like you, in which that just reinforces your fear, and it reinforces your perception of discounting yourself, that you perceive yourself to be unproductive. It reinforces his perception of being not important. I would say it reinforces his perception of being non-successful, unproductive and therefore failing.
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: Therefore, everyone loses.
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: This is the reason it is so important that people become aware and therefore stop this circle.
VIVIENNE: Now with regards to that, I mean, obviously I’m just starting to understand that. Michael himself just feels frustrated, because he’s applying for things and not getting things. So, is there anything you would suggest to do about this? Or just carry on what I’m doing and that’ll help?
ELIAS: For you?
VIVIENNE: With him more. To help him, is what I’m thinking.
ELIAS: I would say, first of all, that it would be a matter of definitely encouraging him—not encouraging him to get a job, but encouraging him in relation to his importance and his value, and that he is the one that is choosing the job. He actually is. Therefore, he should not be choosing one on the basis of money, but genuinely be thinking about it, and to be choosing different jobs that he actually has an interest in, that he actually wants to do, and that he is choosing them, not the other way around.
Because that actually IS what is happening with any job. Although it seems that they are choosing the employee because they are doing the interviewing, supposedly, and they are hiring, but actually it is a cooperation. Both of the parties are choosing: the person that is generating the hiring, and the person that is applying for the job. They are both choosing. In that, the person that is applying for the job is definitely choosing, and they have more of the influence than they realize. It isn’t that they are in competition with other people that want the same job; that is the common mindset, but that isn’t what is happening. What is happening is that the person that is applying for the job is choosing whether they want to actually work for this job or not, whether they are wanting to participate. And they have their reasons, even if they don’t objectively know what they are. Just as [inaudible] choose a particular business because it isn’t stable and because likely you will be laid off after a certain [inaudible].
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: Therefore, that [inaudible] is their out, that they don’t have to work at this job forever—they only have to work at this job temporarily. And they don’t even know that they are doing that, because they aren’t aware of what they are doing objectively.
Now; in this, an individual becomes more aware of what they are doing the more they move in the direction of believing that they are important and that they are valuable. Therefore, that is a significant piece. And it isn’t simply a matter of encouraging the individual that they are important and valuable in relation to work or jobs, but that they are important and valuable always, in everything.
VIVIENNE: Yeah, because I don’t want to go in any of my familiar directions. (Laughs)
ELIAS: This also is a matter of part of what we were discussing in our group interaction, that this is a very common expression in which one individual in a partnership is expressing dismay and somewhat of frustration or irritation with the other partner in the relationship because they aren’t what the one expects is the best direction to move in.
VIVIENNE: Yes, I did recognize myself, yes. (Laughs)
ELIAS: I expressed that in relation to food and exercise, but it could be anything.
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: And in that, the person that is being distressed or irritated or frustrated, that is a defense. That is a reaction. It isn’t that they are actually angry—they are afraid. And in that, that was the reason that I gave that example and expressed to everyone what would be much more productive is for you to stop all of what is familiar to you and start implementing a direction in which you express that you love this individual and that you are simply afraid. You don’t have to say what you are afraid of, you don’t have to give an explanation, you don’t have to tell the other individual what they are doing that makes you afraid—you’ve been doing that for years.
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: At this point, the other individual already knows what bothers you, because you’ve been telling them for years. You don’t have to do that any longer, because it exacerbates the situation, and in that, is not a benefit to either of you. Therefore, what can be much more beneficial and actually healthy is to, every time you recognize those familiar feelings coming up in you, that you are irritated or frustrated or anxious, that you stop, you look at your partner, and you tell them how much you love them. And then you express, “And I’m afraid.” And that is enough.
And I will express to you very realistically and definitely, within I would say between two and three weeks, if you are doing that consistently, you will begin to notice at that point that you are less afraid and that your partner is actually doing different actions.
VIVIENNE: Like I think we’ve already noticed some of that already, because he’s more keen on exercising, he’s been more consistent with it, and there’s been some changes in some of the eating habits. So, there’s—
ELIAS: That is, I would say, a beginning.
VIVIENNE: Yes. It is a beginning. And whilst we’re discussing this, you did suggest potato bread, but all the recipes I’ve found have wheat in them anyways. Is a small amount all right?
ELIAS: I would say a very small amount, but I would also say that I would encourage you to continue to research and find recipes that use other types of flour than wheat.
VIVIENNE: Okay.
ELIAS: It could be [inaudible] flour. It could be any type of flour other than wheat.
VIVIENNE: Okay. Okay. Would you also have any breakfast or lunch suggestions? Because I’m really struggling a bit. I kind of lose my enthusiasm for (laughs) this dietary thing.
ELIAS: What are you [inaudible] in? You can eat anything, as long as it is whole foods. As long as you are paying attention and you are limiting your intake of sugar as much as possible—
VIVIENNE: Yes.
ELIAS: As long as you are moving in a direction in which the foods that you are consuming, if they are packaged, have no more than three ingredients.
VIVIENNE: Okay.
ELIAS: Therefore, that doesn’t mean you can’t consume anything that is prepackaged; it simply means pay attention, and the best indication of what you can be consuming would be things that include three or less ingredients. In that, I would say to you that you can make your own food with however many ingredients you want to.
VIVIENNE: It’s just that last time we discussed the meat and everything so that, you know… He’s rather a fussy eater, I’m afraid, and meat was quite heavily eaten for lunch.
ELIAS: [Inaudible]
VIVIENNE: What types of meat, did you say?
ELIAS: Yes.
VIVIENNE: Well, pork often. And otherwise… mostly pork, I would say, ham. But sometimes cold meats like beef maybe, some turkey—slices, you know, what they call sandwich meats, I think.
ELIAS: I would say that you can incorporate turkey or any type of fowl.
VIVIENNE: Okay.
ELIAS: And in that, chicken [inaudible] fowl.
VIVIENNE: Okay. That would be all right then. Fine. Thank you. Because I really was, you know…
ELIAS: [Inaudible] such as red meat or pork once a week.
VIVIENNE: Yes. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I think that’s (sighs)… that’ll help. Thank you.
I’m just wanting to get on to the next question before I run out of time. What I was really confused about: Why did the rightness and the honor disappear? What was behind that?
ELIAS: Because of the reason for the war. Let me say to you that throughout history, wars have generally been fought either because an empire is expanding, therefore is conquering other lands to expand their empire, or because there is some ideology that there is one side that initiates a war in relation to expressing their ideology as being right, and therefore the motivation is to conquer and convert other people in relation to the ideology, the philosophy, which was generally religious-based.
Now, in that, you obviously see that on both sides in either situation, if one situation is that an empire wants to expand, they obviously view their empire as good, and therefore are conquering other lands to expand what they already perceive as the best—therefore, they are right. And the people that they are targeting to conquer obviously believe that their country and their land is important and right and worth fighting for. And therefore, in that, each side has that piece of that rightness, their conviction in their rightness.
And they also have that piece of honor, that they are honorable. And in that, therefore, regardless that they actually are fighting a war they are doing it in an honorable manner, which means that regardless of the atrocities that are expressed in war—and there have always been atrocities that have been expressed in war; that is what humans do—but in that, they do express for the most part…Now, this doesn’t mean that every single individual that participates in war expresses in this manner, but overall, in general, most of them do express that honor in which they believe that they are honorable people. Each side believes that they are honorable people. Therefore, when they face-to-face meet their enemy, because they believe themselves to be honorable, they express that honor with their enemy, even if they kill them.
In your Second World War, those pieces were lacking because first of all, in the countries that were moving in the direction of being the aggressors and initiating the wars, their direction was neither of those. Their direction wasn’t because they believed that they were honorable and that they were right in that they had a commitment to their own righteous direction. From the onset, they were moving in a direction of eliminating, which stemmed from defense. And remember: defense is an oppositional energy. Therefore, whenever an individual is being defensive, they are opposing.
If you have nations that are defensive, that are beginning these offensive actions from the motivation of defense, their reason for eliminating was to defend themselves against what they perceived to be a threat. And it wasn’t only the Germans. The Japanese moved initially in the direction of the Chinese, which they had perceived to be a threat for thousands of years. The Italians were moving in the direction of partially their own people, but more so the Slavic peoples and other peoples in the European countries that they viewed as a threat. The Germans were moving in the direction of anyone that they perceived to be undesirable—all of those peoples would be a threat in some capacity.
Therefore, all of these people that were moving in a direction of being aggressors were motivated to do that from the perspective of defense. Therefore, from the very beginning they lacked a conviction of rightness. [Inaudible] the direction of war because they believed they were right—they believed they were being threatened. And therefore, they were expressing ultimate defense of themselves, not because they believed that they had the conviction of their own rightness. This is the reason that they were willing to compromise with each other in many different directions, because they didn’t have a conviction of their own rightness.
They also lacked that piece of honor, because they weren’t honoring themselves. They didn’t view themselves to be honorable—they viewed themselves to be defending. Therefore, they didn’t perceive themselves to be honorable. And in that, the rest of the world fell in line with that also and participated in the same capacity of being defensive, defending themselves, defending their land and defending their existence, but not having that conviction of rightness and not expressing that honor.
[The timer for the end of the session rings]
Therefore, this became a world war that was your first war in your history that lacked those components of what every other war in your history included, and that created a generation of individuals that had a tremendous amount of aggressive energy and nowhere to put it.
VIVIENNE: Wow. (Sighs) Well, thank you very much, Elias.
ELIAS: You are very welcome, my friend. And I am exceptionally acknowledging you and congratulating you in what you have presented to yourself and what you are addressing to now, and how that is bringing you forward.
VIVIENNE: Yeah. It’s definitely a liberation. (Laughs) So, thank you very much for having that session. I really, really appreciate it. (Laughs)
Oh, wow. This has been very interesting. I wish I could go on for another half an hour, but I can’t. So, I’ll have to say goodbye now, I’m afraid.
ELIAS: Very well. I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting, my friend. Congratulations, and I shall be speaking to you soon.
VIVIENNE: Thank you so much, Elias. Thank you.
ELIAS: In tremendous love, as always, au revoir.
VIVIENNE: Bye-bye.
(Elias departs after 1 hour)
©2020 Mary Ennis. All Rights Reserved.
Copyright 2020 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.