Session 201310091

Credit Card Debt Choices and Attachments


Credit Card Debt Choices and Attachments

Session #3185
“Credit Card Debt Choices and Attachments”
“The Pulsing Energy of Consciousness”
“Koren Helmet”
“Balance and Centeredness”
“Leedskalnin, Energy and Masonic Symbols”

Wednesday, October 9, 2013 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Rodney (Zacharie)

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

RODNEY: Yeah, I guess it is. (Both laugh) I am fine.

ELIAS: Excellent.

RODNEY: But I’ve been through hell lately. And in case you’re going to ask me what have I accomplished, maybe too much. (Elias laughs) I have been going through the wringer, and I’ll explain why.

I have a large credit card debt. Seven years ago, they increased the interest rate from 5.99 to almost 16%. I complained; no good. Over the years I’ve asked them many times to lower the interest rate--no. Now, I’ve had the card for nine years. I’ve paid it ahead of time. I was late on one occasion. All of my payments have been ahead of time, for fifteen-plus years. But every time I look at this statement, I tear myself apart, because at the rate it’s going down, I’ll die before it gets paid off.

So I thought, “I wonder if I could go bankrupt?” because I’ve got very little income. And I looked into it. Too many lawyers, too many laws, too many fees, so I gave that up.

I don’t know what made me do it, but I went to the Social Security website and I typed in the word “garnishment,” into the search engine. And what I got threw me for a loop. It’s against the law for anyone, except the United States government, to garnish a Social Security payment. It’s protected income. All of a sudden, I realized I don’t have to pay them.

Now a real feeling of peace came over me, and it lasted for two or three days. And then I started doing a job on myself: “Only sleazebags don’t pay their debt.” Right? “What kind of a person are you?” Right? Bad, Elias. This has gone on now for days.

Attachment with a capital A. This is the kind of person I am. Well, I even had to justify—if I didn’t pay them, I had to justify that. Right? That’s my core belief. So I spent two, three days doing an analysis of 72 monthly statements, and I could see, yes, they took real advantage of me. And as I look at this more and more and more, I’m saying, “Yeah, but it’s not them that did this to me. It’s me that did this to me.” I mean, this is…

That session down in New Orleans about opposition [1], I’ve read it about four times or more (laughs) last week. I’m really at peace. There’s no justification for my not paying them, outside of the fact that I don’t like people to treat me like that. I don’t like doing business with them.

And I’m getting to see that that’s the only justification I need. I can choose not to pay them.

ELIAS: (Very quietly) You can.

RODNEY: And they can’t do anything about it. Now the issue then, it’s not so much what they’re going to do, because I can live without credit cards. The issue is what I’m doing to me. All right? And it’s been pretty severe, the last few days.

So the question comes up in my mind, okay, this is an irritation and the fear of consequences. So it is definitely an opposition going here. My not paying them seems to me to be opposing them. Is it not?

ELIAS: Perhaps. Or perhaps not. It is dependent upon what you are expressing and what your motivation is.

RODNEY: My motivation is I need the money more than they do. I’ve got two other credit cards. They’re being paid off. But this one company has gone way out of line to take advantage of me, and I find every time I write them a check it’s like I’m being disrespectful to me. How did I let this happen? How did I do this?

And I looked at that. Because one of the things that you said, back there in New Orleans, was the challenge is to discover basically why is it that you’re doing this to yourself. And what’s come up for me: I don’t deserve being treated… There’s something in me that says, “Too many people take advantage of me. Badly. Around money.” And something in me is sabotaging the hell out of myself. It’s like I don’t deserve it. I don’t deserve to be treated fairly. You know, it’s like I did something and this is my punishment. Am I anywhere near what this is about?

ELIAS: Yes. And do you believe that now?

RODNEY: No. Last night when I went to sleep I told myself, “Focus on loving yourself for a moment.” And what I found encouraging is that I could go there without too much trouble. All I’ve got to do is turn my attention there and I’ll go there.

So now, I’m NOT, I’m not that bad guy—although I’ve got a program up there that keeps running that tells me that I am a bad guy. So I am opposing myself somehow, more than I’m opposing them. Actually, I’m not opposing them, because I sincerely feel these are just people who are doing their job. They’ve got a set of rules. They believe in them. Maybe they are greedy, right? Maybe they are not nice people. But that really doesn’t matter.

You know, it’s like I’m getting to see that the universe really is neutral. And the meaning of it is only what we give it.


RODNEY: Right?


RODNEY: So at one point I said, “Yeah, you want to talk to Elias because you want him to say, ‘Yeah, it’s all right to do this.’” And then I laughed at myself (laughs) because you sure as hell aren’t going to do that.

ELIAS: What I would express to you is, in your calculations, when you were calculating your statements, did you generate a calculation of how much money you spent with this card and how much money you have paid with this card at the initial interest rate?

RODNEY: Yes. I did that.

ELIAS: And with that calculation, in relation to how much money you spent, did you repay that money at that interest rate? Have you, to this point now, repaid that money at that rate, at this present time?

RODNEY: No. But it’s almost half the current debt. In other words, it would bring it down to like $5000 or $6000 if they had stayed at the original interest rate throughout.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Yeah, it would knock off $3500. It would bring it down to five and a half instead of nine. And one of the things I thought about doing…

ELIAS: Stop. You are not understanding what I am expressing.


ELIAS: In your calculation, how much money did you spend?

RODNEY: Oh, I don’t know. It was, let’s say, $30,000.

ELIAS: Very well. How much money have you repaid of that 30,000?

RODNEY: Let’s say 24. That’s principle.

ELIAS: Yes, I am understanding.

RODNEY: Not the interest, just the principle.

ELIAS: Yes, I am understanding.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: And you are adding to that one amount of that interest rate to that 30,000, correct?

RODNEY: Okay. There’s the actual money that I borrowed, let’s say 30,000. And the portion of my payments that they applied to that, let’s say that’s 24,000. That has nothing to do with the interest rate. Now if I take the difference with what they did charge me and what they had charged me originally, it would bring it down further. If I take all of the payment that’s been considered, let’s say like at zero debt, I’ve basically paid them back all the money that they’ve ever given me.

ELIAS: That is what I am asking.

RODNEY: If they had charged me 0% interest, right. If I only look at the last 72 payments, I’m down to 1,950.

ELIAS: What I am asking is, in total in all of the combined payments that you have generated have you met that equal number of what you borrowed?

RODNEY: Almost. Close. Very close.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: And one of the things that I did think of is offering them to pay them back that amount.

ELIAS: Which you could do.

RODNEY: Yes, I could.

ELIAS: Which would be a different option, a different choice, which would not move in opposition to your attachment of responsibility.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: But would also honor valuing yourself and honor your deservingness in that you entered into an agreement and that you have fulfilled that agreement by repaying what was borrowed, and therefore the debt is accomplished.

RODNEY: Right. I like that.

ELIAS: That would be one avenue that you could engage that would be realistic. It would satisfy the responsibility attachment. It would also be not opposing of yourself and honoring of yourself to not be disrespected and to not be taken advantage of.

RODNEY: I like this. I had thought of all of those answers, and I’m pleased as pink to hear you validate that they will have that effect. All right.

They’re going to be pissed off and upset and whatever, …

ELIAS: It matters not.

RODNEY: …no matter what I do.

ELIAS: It matters not.

RODNEY: But that doesn’t matter.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: What matters is…

ELIAS: What matters is YOU.

RODNEY: …is how I feel about myself.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Thank you.

ELIAS: And what you can choose that will be satisfying and comfortable to YOU, and also not opposing of your own attachments, recognizing and acknowledging that you do incorporate these attachments, and that they are strong, and not placing an additional judgment upon that, but acknowledging that and expressing to yourself the situation is not black and white.

It is not either-or. It is not a matter of you absolutely complying with the dictates of an outside source, but also not moving in a direction of opposing the outside source by expressing, “No, I refuse to pay you at all,” for THAT sets you in a direction in which now you are opposing yourself and them.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: In this, recognizing your own attachments and acknowledging that and evaluating, “What are other choices that I have?” It is not a black-and-white situation.


ELIAS: In this, quite realistically, you are honoring the agreement that you entered into with this outside source. You borrowed money; you agreed to pay it back; you are paying it back. You may merely not be paying it back in the manner that they want, but that matters not.

RODNEY: Exactly. I have two other credit cards. It’s just like this one. They’ve always been paid ahead of time with more money than is the minimum payment. And I have no doubt that I’m going to continue doing that until they’re paid off. It’s the behavior of this particular company that has been, I think the word is egregious.

ELIAS: It is dictating.

RODNEY: It dictates to me.

ELIAS: They are dictating, and they changed the agreement. In that…

RODNEY: They not only changed the agreement, they just changed the interest rate. They have a right to do that.

ELIAS: But in that, you also have a right to change your agreement.

RODNEY: Ah! I like that thought, too. Very good.

ELIAS: It is not required of them to ask your permission to change their agreement. It is not required of you either to change your agreement. (Rodney chuckles) And in that, they chose to change the agreement, and perhaps now you choose to change the agreement also. And in changing the agreement, you choose to generate an action that is satisfactory to you and that is honoring to you. No less, no more.

RODNEY: Yeah. Thank you, Elias.

ELIAS: You are welcome.

RODNEY: This is… It’s been a very uncomfortable encounter with myself, but I suspect it’s a big step for me.

ELIAS: I would agree.

RODNEY: Because I’m really wrestling with a super-large attachment. I didn’t expect that I would tear myself apart as bad as I did.

ELIAS: And this is a considerable factor with attachments. Individuals incorporate the tendency to move in the direction of attachments that they automatically move in with belief systems. Eliminate them.

RODNEY: But we don’t eliminate anything.

ELIAS: You do not, and in that, automatically viewing them as “bad” and “enemy” and it is not. You would not set into place attachments if you did not perceive them to be good or beneficial. Therefore, they do serve you. It is merely a matter of being aware of when it is serving you and when it is not.

RODNEY: No, I see that. I see that.

Elias, recently a credit card company came to me. I have a very high credit score. This has all been going on, but I’ve been acquiescing to it, so I’ve got a very high credit score. Another bank came to me and said, “We’ll not only offer you a preferred rate, but we’ll guarantee not to change it.” I said, “Be my guest!” Right? So I have not been doing business with this other company now for months. And yes, you’re right. Attachments have value.

ELIAS: Yes, they do.

RODNEY: Okay. Can we move on to a more enjoyable subject?


RODNEY: (Chuckles) First of all, last night—I wrote it down—at 7:25 my living room window was wide open. I hear this sound, “WOO-OH!” Like that—louder, but short, maybe five to eight seconds, and it built up strongly and it kept going and then it died down. And the volume of it was humungous. There’s nothing out there that could make that sound. And it did that maybe five, six, seven times. Now I’ve heard on the internet, people have experienced this all over the planet, this booming sound. Is that what I heard?


RODNEY: What causes that?

ELIAS: What have you researched thus far?


ELIAS: What have you researched thus far? This shall be entertaining.

RODNEY: I haven’t had a chance to research it. (Elias chuckles) I think somebody has talked to you about this.


RODNEY: What did they…? I don’t know what word to search on. Earth sounds?

ELIAS: Individuals refer to it as sounds that are similar to jets from large planes or…

RODNEY: Well, it has that volume if you’re close by.


RODNEY: But jets make a continuous sound.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: These were not continuous.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: These were slow bursts. (Elias chuckles) What is the earth saying? Does it pertain only to the locality? Is there something about the locality that is significant?

ELIAS: Not necessarily.

RODNEY: How about the people? How about me?

ELIAS: The people, yes.

RODNEY: The people are significant?

ELIAS: Yes. And…

RODNEY: In what way?

ELIAS: It is significant in relation to the energy of the people, the individual and collective energy. And I would express that you are becoming more and more aware, all of you, in varying degrees, but you all are becoming more and more aware, and individuals are paying more and more attention to themselves.


ELIAS: And in this, it is building the collective energy, which is also associated with this shift. You are building energy to express significant changes.

There are significant changes to be accomplished before the completion of this shift.


ELIAS: That you have not yet actually fully moved into. There are large, significant changes in your reality that—

RODNEY: Physical?


RODNEY: Like earth movements?

ELIAS: Structure. There are large expressions of structure, governments, exchange…

RODNEY: We’re in the middle of that right now.

ELIAS: You are not in the middle.

RODNEY: We are not in the middle?


RODNEY: It’s just the beginning?

ELIAS: You are beginning.

RODNEY: Because we have a government right now in this country which is malfunctioning on a big scale. And you’re saying we’re just beginning?

ELIAS: Yes. There are significant changes to your reality that are to be accomplished by the finish of this Shift.

RODNEY: Symbolically—and I’m careful here to use my correct terms—symbolically, astrology would say that the United States, which is the biggest war power the planet has ever seen, is going to pull back from that position for the next 80 years. That would be the kind of structure you’re talking about?

ELIAS: One. But I would express that that is, relatively speaking, one of the lesser structures.


ELIAS: I would express that the significant structures are all of the world’s governments, the separated individual governments that are expressed in all of the segmented individual countries. Yes, you have begun a slight step in that direction. Your new European commonwealth is a beginning, but only in name.

RODNEY: And then there’s the money issue, correct?

ELIAS: And that is a very significant alteration. Government, exchange, the structure of your reality, of your societies is changing, which includes everything you know, your educational system,…

RODNEY: I see signs of that, because I’m a bit of a news junkie.

ELIAS: …your expansion in exploration, everything that you know.

RODNEY: So this sound that I heard, it’s connected to the individuals in the area?

ELIAS: Collectively.

RODNEY: Collectively. It signifies…

ELIAS: It is a pulsing of energy. It is a building of energy, and it is pulsing, and it is very much reflecting the pulsing energy of consciousness.

RODNEY: Well, it has to be.

ELIAS: Let me express to you, in physical form and in physical reality, if you allow yourself the experience of temporarily or even momentarily disconnecting your objective awareness attached to your physical reality, and allow yourself, as a physical being, allow yourself to tap into the experience of consciousness, the one significant factor that you would retain in relation to that experience, when you return to your objective awareness, would be the awareness of the pulsation of consciousness. For that would be the most obvious display of the existence and the movement of consciousness.

Remember, consciousness is not a thing. Therefore, what you would retain and—

RODNEY: This pulsing, would it have a frequency like I heard with this sound?

ELIAS: When translated into physical reality, yes.

RODNEY: It would?

ELIAS: It is a reflection of that. You collectively are generating this building of energy and it is being reflected in this pulsing, which is significant and tremendous enough, as an energy expression, that it is strong enough to be translated into an audible sound,—

RODNEY: The energy was tremendous.

ELIAS: --therefore into an actual manifestation, for sound is a manifestation.


ELIAS: It is ONLY expressed in physical realities.

RODNEY: Right. Okay.

ELIAS: It is a physical manifestation.

RODNEY: Yes. I understand that.

ELIAS: The energy is so strong and is building and is being created in such intensity that it is incorporating that power of an actual physical manifestation. It is being actually expressed in sound, which creates a rippling vibration, in addition to the sound itself. In this, you are correct, this is being experienced all around your globe.

RODNEY: Does it say anything about the type of people in that locality? You said they’re becoming more aware.

ELIAS: Yes. Another significant factor is their connection. The more the individuals in different areas allow themselves to express connectedness, regardless of the degree of their awareness—they are all becoming more aware, but regardless of the degree of their awareness objectively—the more connected individuals are allowing themselves to be, the greater the energy is being expressed.

RODNEY: Would one expression be…? All right, I live in a complex of, say, 60 people. It totally staggers my imagination the number of people there who grew up together. Now mind you, they’re all, average age, maybe 80-plus. They’ve known each other since kindergarten. They know everybody in town. Forget the college, all right? Everybody in town they know. They know who married who, who died, who didn’t. That’s moving towards interconnectedness.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: And that’s what you’re talking about.

ELIAS: That is one form.

RODNEY: One form, that’s right. I’m not saying it’s everything.

ELIAS: Yes. That is one form. Yes.

RODNEY: Most interesting. Well, they put the fireworks on the other night with their boom box. (Elias chuckles)

Talking along those lines a little bit: When it comes to engaging the physicality of the body in order to experience different states, like taking marijuana or aya, whatever that other stuff is called…

ELIAS: Ayahuasca. (Laughs)

RODNEY: Ayahuasca. I’m keenly aware of the state of my stomach, right? If something doesn’t agree with me, I dislike it immensely. I won’t take antibiotics for what they do to my stomach. It’s, like, horrible.

So along comes this thing called the Koren helmet, also known as the god helmet, and it is a headset with coils in it, magnets that they can place in various parts of the brain or the scalp. Now what interested me in this is that the people who developed this, his name is Koren, was studying the neural wave forms of the brain, and this is high-level academics and research.

And what they do is they pulse the magnetic field. It’s not electromagnetic radiation; it’s nowhere near that kind of frequency. They turn it up and they bring it back, they turn it up and they bring it back. And it produces, in many people… Well, it has different effects.

If they do it over the frontal lobe it produces deep states of relaxation, which I interpret a little bit as balancing. If they move it over here to the sides, people actually have had the sense of an angel or god was in the room.

So my question is, because this is all about magnetics, magnetic fields, and you’ve spoken that consciousness is an electromagnetic phenomenon, and here people have developed a significantly sophisticated computer program, through research, and this is what it produces. If I were to get one of these things, and if I were to approach it in a manner in which it would benefit me, do you feel that this would produce beneficial results for me?

ELIAS: How are you defining beneficial results?

RODNEY: Centeredness. Centeredness is for me a sense of deep balance and not necessarily relaxation, but balance. I would like that. I would like to experience that more deeply. And could I, especially if it was the other mode of usage, would it facilitate my becoming aware of other focuses? Things of that nature.

ELIAS: It could.

RODNEY: It could.


RODNEY: Okay. Is there any danger in my using this system?


RODNEY: There isn’t.


RODNEY: The worst thing that could happen is it would have no effect at all?



ELIAS: Could it be beneficial to you? Yes.


ELIAS: Could it aid in developing that expression of being centered? Yes.

RODNEY: Would it facilitate meditation?

ELIAS: It can, yes—which would also facilitate being centered. How are you defining balance and being centered?

RODNEY: I sense that I can become overwhelmed easily with an idea. Like five years ago I got the idea that now that I was free, had free time and so forth and so on, I could really make money in the stock market. Well, I’ve lost all that money. (Elias chuckles) Right?

And I went out and spent. I bought a computer system for $3000. That’s what I call overwhelm. Right?

I think if I had been more centered, more balanced, I would have become aware that this isn’t really what I like to do. I would have become aware of this doesn’t work for me, you know the day-to-day da-da-da-da-da-da.

ELIAS: I agree.

RODNEY: So when I say centered… Well, you asked me about balance. Okay, for me the word balance stands on the opposite side of the pendulum from being overwhelmed. Does that make sense?


RODNEY: Okay. Being overwhelmed is not such a terrible thing, if you know you’re in it. If you’re aware of being overwhelmed, then it’s not so bad. But if you’re overwhelmed and you don’t know you’re in it, if you see it as inspiration instead… You know, these get to be really slippery ideas that merge and flow, and I’ve got a very slippery mind. (Elias laughs) A lot slipperier than most people I know.

ELIAS: Balance is being aware continuously of yourself and what is and is not important. Being centered is the implementation of that.

In very simple terms, if you are aware, if you are paying attention, if you are directing your attention for you are aware, centering yourself is the action of implementing balance in ALL that you do—not in segments, not in sections, not in areas, but in everything, in the whole of you, which encompasses every subject that you engage, every direction, every movement, every action, every choice.

RODNEY: This is balancing from a point of centeredness.

ELIAS: Centeredness is the implementation, the action of balancing.

RODNEY: It’s the action.

ELIAS: Yes. Balancing is being aware of what is important and therefore beneficial and what is not. That is the expression of balance. The implementation of it, the action of it, the directing of your attention, is the centeredness.

When you are centered, you are actively engaging your attention intentionally to be balanced, to be expressing that awareness of what is important and therefore beneficial and what is not, and not incorporating extremes.

RODNEY: Correct. Which is another word for overwhelm.



ELIAS: Extremes are not balanced.

RODNEY: One more question along those lines.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: The people who are merchandising this, and I don’t know if there’s… I think there are other outfits, but this outfit calls it an “Eight Coil Shakti.” Would you comment on the quality of their work? Is this a legitimate company to do business with?

ELIAS: (Pause) Are they a legitimate company? Yes.

RODNEY: Or are they a fly-by-night outfit? That’s…

ELIAS: (Pause) Let me express to you, how you define fly-by-night is…

RODNEY: Listen, I’m very gullible. I’m very gullible.

ELIAS: I am understanding. How you define fly-by-night is individuals generate an idea and express a suggestion with an idea that they are inventing, and it, in your terms, is not necessarily successful, for the collective does not generate interest in it. Which is generally expressed for the individuals that are generating the idea and the suggestion to begin with are not confident enough with what they are expressing, and therefore it creates this situation, as fly-by-night in your terms.

Is it what you would term to be a con? Which is different than fly-by-night, for that is an expression that you identify in which individuals are knowingly, intentionally being deceitful.

RODNEY: Well, let me ask you this then, because I have the impression that these people are not conning.

ELIAS: I would agree.

RODNEY: Good. I think that’s all I need to know.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: All right. Unless you think there’s something else I should know?

ELIAS: I would express they are not being deceitful.


ELIAS: And in that, as to the performance of the device itself, that is dependent upon the individual. That is dependent upon what you do and how you use it.

RODNEY: Right. Correct. Okay.

ELIAS: That is the reason that I expressed to YOU individually, for YOU…

RODNEY: Particularly?

ELIAS: Yes, it could be beneficial.

RODNEY: Okay. That’s for me particularly.

ELIAS: Yes. For another individual, it may not be.


ELIAS: For another individual, it may be exceptionally so.


ELIAS: For you, yes, I would express that it incorporates the potential to be helpful in facilitating in the directions that you want.

RODNEY: Okay. Are there other directions that I’m not aware of?

ELIAS: Yes, or that you may be somewhat aware of. An individual could use a device such as this for many different directions and expressions. It is a focal point.

RODNEY: Okay. Okay. Any in particular that would benefit me, if I know what they are?

ELIAS: I would express that, not that you would use it in this capacity, but some individuals could incorporate it in a similar manner that they would to create similar effects to certain substances.

RODNEY: Okay. I thought that would be… I’d be open to that. Okay.

ELIAS: In this, they could be used to generate many different altered states, in your terms.

RODNEY: Okay, including out of body and things like that?


RODNEY: Okay. Good. Thank you, sir.

ELIAS: You are welcome. (They both laugh)

RODNEY: Now, something which really fascinates me. I don’t know how much time we’ve got left. There’s a place called Coral Castle in Florida that was built by the name of Edward, I’ll spell his name for anybody who’s transcribing this.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: L-E-E-D-S-K-A-L-N-I-N. He comes from Latvia. This little guy, short, skinny, he once put on some weight and got up to 125 pounds, but basically he was mostly like 100 pounds. So he builds this coral castle out of stone, blocks of which significantly are bigger than the largest blocks of stone in the pyramids in Egypt. (Elias chuckles)

Now, a guy by the name of Jeremy Stride has done a tremendous amount of research on this guy. This guy literally moved those stones himself. And there’s anecdotal evidence that he could move them just by resting his hands on them. Now I don’t know how far that goes, but he didn’t use heavy equipment, that’s for sure. He didn’t have it.

The guy was almost a pauper most of his life, at least during this phase. He left a lot of clues as to how he did this. Jeremy Stride has discovered that those clues, those numbers coincide with a system of numbers, prime numbers, things of that nature, and a device that he built called a flywheel that he built himself.

Now it did appear to me that this device was too large to be portable. All right? The construction of the flywheel, its parameters, the angles and so forth, correlate to an extremely high degree with the symbols embedded in the Norman Hall at Great Lodge of Pennsylvania. What do they call them? Masonic. Very detailed, very interlocking.

My first question is, there were some kids who said they… He was very secretive, he was very gregarious, he invited people around, he loved to show off the place, but when it came to what he did, how he did it, actual secrecy. I mean he did something like a 10- or 20-ton door that an 8-year-old could open and close with her finger. That’s how well balanced it was. These are really unusual feats.

So the kids snuck up on him one night and saw him sitting alongside a huge block of stone, his hands resting on the stone, and he was humming some kind of a tune.

I want to know, what did he use that flywheel for? And could he move the stones simply with his energy?

ELIAS: Energy directed in a particular vibrational quality.

RODNEY: From him?


RODNEY: Okay. In other words, he could definitely levitate 40-ton blocks of stone?

ELIAS: I have expressed repeatedly, your pyramids were built by ordinary individuals such as yourselves: no aliens, no extraterrestrials, no angels.

RODNEY: Well, surely if he could do this, that’s evidence beyond dispute.

ELIAS: Precisely.

RODNEY: And he did do it.

ELIAS: Precisely.

RODNEY: Okay. I have a suspicion that the device came after he discovered he could do this.

ELIAS: You are correct.

RODNEY: I’m correct about that. Then what did he use the device for?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Show.


ELIAS: Most of you need an explanation that is logical.

RODNEY: All of this stuff about the Masonic Lodge, and all of these numbers, and the device—and he made a big deal out of it—

ELIAS: THAT is interconnected.

RODNEY: What’s interconnected?

ELIAS: All of those symbols.

RODNEY: And the flywheel.

ELIAS: Yes, that is an expression of interconnectedness.

RODNEY: Between the flywheel and the Masonic Lodge?


RODNEY: Was he aware of the symbology of the Masonic Lodge and he built the flywheel to conform?

ELIAS: Partially.

RODNEY: Partially.

ELIAS: Not entirely, but partially, yes.

RODNEY: And he did this…

ELIAS: The more interconnectedness, the less separation. The less separation, the more power. All power or energy is available to you at all times, but you do not necessarily access it. In this, being individual beings of limited physical expression and strength, accessing interconnected power or energy is important.

RODNEY: There is the situation. He moved this. He had it halfway built and decided to move the thing to another location. There is evidence that people saw this.

They brought in a truck. He told the driver of the truck to go back and to return the following morning. The drivers came back the following morning and these multi-ton blocks of stone were on the truck. People had… There’s evidence to this.

And one of the trips, the truck ran off the road a little bit and could not get out. The traction... This 100-pound guy tied a rope to the truck, and of course he had three or four other people to help him out, but they pulled the truck out of the ditch. The men who helped him knew damn well that they could never have done that themselves. This guy had that kind of strength. Not strength…

ELIAS: Energy.

RODNEY: … but that energy.

ELIAS: Energy is very real. Very real.

RODNEY: Could I use this Shakti system to sense into it?


RODNEY: Okay. And you know, because I’m fascinated by symbology and numbers and all of that, you know I could get lost in the symbology of the Masonic Lodge and this flywheel. Would that benefit me?

ELIAS: There is considerable imagery in all that.

RODNEY: And he did that in a way to communicate what was happening? What he was doing? I mean, why did he do it?

ELIAS: No, not to communicate what he was doing [but] to tap into that interconnected energy—to use it.

RODNEY: Okay. So the symbolism of the Masonic Lodge in and of itself is a statement of energy?


RODNEY: And power?


RODNEY: Because my reading of it says that’s so.


RODNEY: What they used it for. A lot of people think they know what the highest levels of that organization are capable of. But there are some people who say, “You only know so much,” because it is that secretive.

All right. So that’s true. The flywheel enabled him to take that symbolic…

ELIAS: He generated a physical representation…

RODNEY: Of that energy?


RODNEY: Okay. Now, so he’s got a physical representation of it.

ELIAS: Yes, which becomes a physical focal point.

RODNEY: Okay. It shows a picture of him on a flywheel where he would turn it around. Did he use that flywheel to energize himself, to open to the energy, to what?

ELIAS: Open to harness and focus.

RODNEY: To harness and focus the energy?


RODNEY: Which is symbolized by…

ELIAS: And therefore direct.

RODNEY: Directing it.


RODNEY: So then he could go to the stone…


RODNEY: …and do the levitation. Because he knew. Okay.

ELIAS: We shall continue this conversation in another conversation. (Laughs)

[RODNEY’S NOTE: This session ran over the one-hour limit because Mary forgot to set the timer. I found it interesting that Elias apparently does not need a timer to know what time it is.]

RODNEY: Thank you, Elias.

ELIAS: Much for you to ponder in that.

RODNEY: Yes, there is. (Elias laughs)

ELIAS: We shall be anticipating our next meeting, my dear friend.

RODNEY: Thank you.

ELIAS: In great encouragement in your new explorations, …

RODNEY: Thank you. Thank you.

ELIAS: To you in great affection as always, au revoir.

RODNEY: Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 11 minutes.)

[1] Group session April 2, 2005, #1742

©2013 Mary Ennis. All Rights Reserved.

Copyright 2013 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.