Session 1605

‘Am I Getting Ready for a Heart Attack?’


“‘Am I Getting Ready for a Heart Attack?’ and Beliefs About Smoking”
“Using Playfulness in Accomplishing”

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Rodney (Zacharie)

(Elias’ arrival time is 16 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

RODNEY: Good afternoon, Elias! Long time!

ELIAS: Ha ha ha — for you!

RODNEY: (Laughs) Yeah, “for me” is right! Time flies by for me. God, I was so nervous here a little while ago, getting ready to talk to you. I’m amused by that when I think of who you are and what you stand for. Actually, I dozed in a chair and I woke up a little later than I wanted to and I was rushing around getting everything ready.

It’s funny, this session is almost because I had an accident. I called Lynda one night after she’d gone to bed, and actually I had dialed my sister’s number. They both have the same first name, almost. So in the few minutes that we talked, I made a comment about talking to you, and she said, “Well, I’ll set up a session.” (Both laugh) So that’s how we got here. Then I thought to myself, “Jesus, what am I going to talk about?” I spent a couple of days really working on this, and I’ve got so much to talk about here, Elias, it’s incredible. (Elias laughs) We’ll never get through it!

I think the first question I have is one about energy. I’ve been playing some psychic games and trying to sense unofficial information and so forth and so on. People on the EliasDarling list were talking about Tomkin, Fran in particular. I think she had a situation where she actually found him standing in her bedroom one night. I have this tingling sensation in my left arm, and it’s very pronounced. It’s kind of like on the skin, and it goes from just below my shoulder all the way down and all over my left hand. Somebody had associated that physical affectingness with Tomkin, so I kind of sent out a request for help on this, if anybody had any hits. What happened is I got a couple of replies, and the associations of Tomkin were with 1) a walking stick, and 2) a sense of touch, and 3) Milumet. All of these, I think, came out of the Game that they play. And I do have a walking stick, and it’s a very powerful... There’s some kind of an energy about that stick, at least when I hold it, because I’ve had so many unusual interactions with other people around it. It’s not like I was waving it at them or anything, you know; I was just kind of leaning on it.

I’m wondering if you can shed any light on what the sensation is in my left arm. Is it that, or am I getting ready for a heart attack? You know what I’m saying?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) And first of all, what is your impression?

RODNEY: Well, sad to say, my impression does go to I have been stressing myself quite a bit with smoking. My physical vitality is at pretty low ebb. I go out and walk, I don’t walk very far and I’m out of breath. I hope I can begin walking every day, because I sense that that exercise is probably going to serve me extremely well. I went out and walked for an hour this morning. But sad to say, I do believe that that left arm and the twitching I get in it may have something to do with my stressing myself. Whenever I get it, I open up and I go, “What are you saying to yourself?” When I do that, it kind of goes away. It comes and goes very fleetingly. I don’t have any clear impression other than the heart attack, which, Elias, other than my physical energy levels, I’m pretty damn healthy. So I don’t know.

ELIAS: It is not necessarily associated with what you term to be a heart attack, but it is associated with constricting energy and constricting natural flows of...

RODNEY: I’m feeling it right now. It just started.

ELIAS: It is associated with constricting the natural flows of your physical body functions.

RODNEY: And is that my attitude, is that my style of living? Or what am I doing to provoke that?

ELIAS: It is associated with what you are doing and the influence of your beliefs.

RODNEY: I’m fully aware that my beliefs do have a lot to do with it.


RODNEY: So it does have to do with my life style?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes, for it concerns what you are actually doing and what the influence of your beliefs are that are being expressed in conjunction with what you are doing.

RODNEY: Let’s suppose on the smoking side, if I really get to accepting that belief, accepting the belief that the tobacco smoking is debilitating for me, I could essentially neutralize that.

ELIAS: Yes, but the manner in which you alter what you are doing is by recognizing the different influences of the belief, and therefore allowing yourself the freedom to choose which influence is more in keeping with your preferences. If your preference is to be smoking, you identify the belief of smoking and allow yourself to evaluate what its different influences are, and thusly allow yourself to choose which influence is more associated with your preference.

RODNEY: One of the preferences or I guess a motivating factor is that I’ve come to see that smoking is one way that I stop action.

ELIAS: In what capacity?

RODNEY: In almost any capacity. When I smoke, I generally am sitting still or not doing something. My productivity stops when I smoke. That’s not exactly true. But like if I go out for a walk, I don’t smoke. Or if I do smoke, it’s like I’m sitting and I’m thinking. God knows I’m so thought focused that there’s a close association between thinking and smoking. (Elias chuckles) I just sit there and do that. Is that a preference?

ELIAS: That is an influence. That is one influence that is associated with your preference. Your preference is to incorporate the action of smoking. One of the influences of smoking is that you allow yourself a time framework of quietness.

RODNEY: That is true. That’s very true. Frequently, if I’ve been working for some time, I’ll feel like I want to take a break. I’ll want to rest, I’ll want to relax, and I will go outside and have a cigarette. It’s a quiet time.

ELIAS: I am understanding.

RODNEY: So that’s another influence?

ELIAS: Correct. But another influence of smoking, of the belief concerning smoking, is that it generates harmful physical affects. That is another influence. What do you view as another influence of the belief of smoking?

RODNEY: I’ve got this weird idea of experiencing a... Well, this is wild, Elias. Somehow stopping the so-called monkey-thoughts in my mind and getting... There’s this bit of getting myself so fatigued that I feel like I’m just going to faint into permanent unconsciousness. I actually lead myself up to that brink, at times. That’s almost a death-like quiet.

ELIAS: I am understanding.

RODNEY: And I’m not sure... I know I’m aware of that. I sense that I’m actually doing it on purpose, consciously leaving this physical reality behind me and going into a deep dream-like state. That’s a little frightening for me. I sense that this smoking and taking myself up to the point where that’s inevitable is almost my way of moving into that or testing that or experience exploring that.

ELIAS: I am understanding.

RODNEY: Does this all make any sense to you?

ELIAS: Quite, and that is what you are doing. Therefore, in association with what you are doing and the influences of your beliefs, this is what generates this sensation physically.

RODNEY: The tingling in my arm is all associated with that also?


RODNEY: Does the tingling in my arm have any more specific message?

ELIAS: That IS the message.

RODNEY: That is the message, that I am moving up to that point...?

ELIAS: You are toying with it.

RODNEY: Toying with the idea of disengaging. Or I wouldn’t say disengaging — I take that back.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Toying with the idea of going into a faint, if you will...


RODNEY: ...into a quote/unquote death-like trance.

ELIAS: Yes. In testing the waters.

RODNEY: Is there a simpler way to go there? (Laughs)

ELIAS: Yes, but that would not be your choice of your method!

RODNEY: (Laughs) Can you give me a suggestion that I might be able to warm up to?

ELIAS: In association with what? Do you wish to alter what you are doing? Do you wish to alter the influence of the belief? I may express to you in association with your energy, although you may be expressing some element of fear, you also incorporate somewhat of a strength of curiosity in what is unknown — not necessarily to be engaging the choice of death, but toying with the action of it and expressing a curiosity in association with what the experience is if that choice is engaged. It is a type of fascination. In that curiosity, you continue to do what you are doing, and you continue to allow the influences that reinforce that allowance of yourself to be toying with this concept.

RODNEY: If I were to deliberately move my attention to a deep meditation on the idea of a death-like trance, actually toy with it purposely, it seems to me that if I were to have some success with that, that would have an impact on my use of tobacco.

ELIAS: That is quite likely. For you are crediting...

RODNEY: The smoking.


RODNEY: I’m giving that the credit for this...


RODNEY: ...and that’s via my belief system.

ELIAS: Correct. Therefore, what you are doing is you are incorporating the tobacco and crediting it for generating or allowing you to generate certain experiences. Those experiences may be generated regardless of whether you incorporate tobacco or not.

RODNEY: Now, if I look at all of these influences as a set of beliefs, I can move to addressing them. I can move to accepting them.

ELIAS: Yes, but remember, each belief incorporates many, many influences, some of which you would deem to be limiting or hindering, some of which you prefer.

RODNEY: Right. I actually prefer this toying with the idea of what does a death-like trance feel like.

ELIAS: I may express to you, my friend, this is a similar situation in a different capacity, in a manner of speaking the other side of the coin, of what you experienced pastly. Remember our conversations pastly of you standing upon your cliff, and your fear to take the step off the cliff.

Now you are exploring, in a manner of speaking, figuratively, the other side of that coin — the same beliefs but different influences, and therefore different perceptions and different directions. Now rather than generating the fear to take the step off the cliff and restricting yourself, you continue to incorporate the fear, but you are somewhat overriding the fear with the curiosity of not merely taking the step off the cliff, but jumping off the cliff.

RODNEY: You said overriding the fear. Is that the same as going into the fear?

ELIAS: No. The fear continues, but the curiosity is expressed in a greater strength; therefore, the curiosity wills out, and therefore, it overrides the fear. The fear is not gone, but there is a stronger motivation than the fear.

RODNEY: What I also hear or sense is that if I go into the fear associated with toying with what it feels like to disengage or to die, that would also have a great influence on this.


RODNEY: I really don’t have a clear idea of why I’m doing this, except to know that I want to experience that. Perhaps it’s a portal to another state of consciousness. I’m not sure.

ELIAS: There are different beliefs that are associated with what you are doing. You incorporate somewhat of a fear of death, for it is unfamiliar and you do not incorporate an objective awareness of what may or may not occur once you engage that choice. You also incorporate beliefs that express that you are approaching a time framework to be engaging that choice in association with your age. Therefore, you are incorporating what you are associating as a preparation for the inevitable, which is that final choice within physical focus. But you also incorporate a curiosity as to what shall occur if and when you engage that choice.

Now; the element of the smoking also provides you with a viable excuse to be engaging that choice. For associated with your beliefs, if you continue to incorporate the action of smoking, that shall eventually constrict you to the point in which it will move you into the choice of death. And that shall be reasonable and understandable, for it is acceptable to choose death in association with incorporating an action that is held in mass belief to inevitably in itself create that action.

The tobacco does not create death. That is a choice that YOU engage. The tobacco does not create dis-ease. YOU create that in association with your belief concerning tobacco. Therefore, you attribute certain influences to the tobacco and hold it responsible by crediting it with all of the actions concerning it.

Now; recognize that we have identified several influences associated with your belief concerning smoking. Some of those influences are in keeping with your preferences. Therefore, you may even express that some of those influences you like. Some of those influences you do not necessarily like, for they may be uncomfortable.

Now; recognize momentarily that the actions that you incorporate associated with smoking are your choices, and YOU are initiating and executing the actions, such as incorporating a time of quietness. That is one influence that you are generating the action. You are engaging the choice, and you are incorporating the physical action of incorporating that time. In other time frameworks, you are engaging the choice to be incorporating smoking to disengage your interaction with other individuals and to generate solitude. That is also a preferred influence. At times, you engage this action to be generating a time framework in which you stop projecting your attention outwardly, and you allow yourself to focus inwardly. That is another preferred influence. But recognize in those situations, you are engaging these choices. You are generating the action.

Now; just as you are engaging the action in those scenarios, you are also engaging the action of generating physical constriction and physical affectingness. Those are other influences in association with smoking, with your belief of smoking. And those are not necessarily preferred influences, but they are expressed and they are chosen.

Now; the point in this evaluation is to allow you to recognize how you attribute the credit to the tobacco of allowing you time frameworks that are associated with your preference, and you are crediting the tobacco with the affectingness that occurs physically that is not your preference. The difference is that in the moments in which you are expressing an action which IS more associated with your preference, although you are crediting that to the tobacco and to the action of smoking, you may in this moment recognize that you yourself, not the tobacco, are engaging those choices, and you are aware of why. Therefore, you may begin to evaluate how you may credit yourself with ALL of these choices and ALL of these actions associated with the different influences...

RODNEY: Without crediting the tobacco.

ELIAS: Correct. For the tobacco is not generating harmfulness to you any more than it is allowing you to incorporate...

RODNEY: These other influences.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: That makes a lot of sense, Elias. I sense I hear you loud and strong. (Elias chuckles) Simply in recognizing that I can create these choices without crediting the tobacco...

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: ...will in itself have an influence as to my addressing to the belief system...

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: ...surrounding my so-called habitual smoking.

ELIAS: Correct, for in this, also recognize the power and the strength of all of these actions. In the actions associated with your preference, you allow yourself to generate those choices easily, without conflict and in strength. Associated with the influences that are not preferred, you also generate a strength without effort, without analyzation, without thought. You merely create it. You merely generate the physical manifestation. You do not express tremendous consideration and thought concerning the choice to be expressing your preference, either, and you express that in strength also.

ALL of these actions and ALL of these manifestations and time frameworks are incorporated quite easily. Therefore, rather than crediting the tobacco, perhaps you may evaluate this and acknowledge and appreciate your own strength in how easily you accomplish all of these different actions.

RODNEY: Thank you.

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

RODNEY: The associations with — leaving this subject and going back to the area of Tomkin — I don’t have a sense of who Tomkin is, but it just so happens that I have a real thing with this walking stick, and I have a real relationship with insects and bees and things, which is unusual. I treat them with respect, and they do the same to me. Does this have any association with Tomkin whatsoever?

ELIAS: A similar type of energy. Which, if you are so choosing, you may engage that energy, and that energy would be quite willing to be expressing supportiveness and interaction with you.

RODNEY: When you say similar type of energy, similar to what? Similar to where I go on occasion?

ELIAS: The energy that you express in what you have offered as examples.

RODNEY: You mean the walking stick?


RODNEY: My relationship with insects?

ELIAS: Yes. There is a similar quality of energy in that as is expressed with this essence of Tomkin.

RODNEY: Milumet is deeply associated with the earth, are they not?

ELIAS: There is an association, yes.

RODNEY: I thank you for that.

ELIAS: You are welcome.

RODNEY: On a question of power, people talk about power and personal power. In my sensing into what power is or what personal power is, I come up against the fact that I’m rather confused about what this is referring to. In one sense, if you talk to a physicist, power is the ability to do work. If you talk to someone else, power might be considered the influence that you would have over an event or someone else, i.e., a component of so-called control.

When I look into my own personal power, what I question is I have this concept that my reality is created by me, even if I’m quite uncertain as to the mechanics of that or the how of that. It is my creation. So if that’s the case, then power seems to be a superfluous word here, in a sense. If anything, coming to know one’s own power, it makes more sense to look at coming to see my own responsibility in what I create. I’m kind of at a loss as to what this term “personal power” means. I’m not sure that you’ve used it very much, and I wonder if you’d comment on that.

ELIAS: I don’t necessarily incorporate the term of personal power, although it may be applicable. But I would express to you that power is the expression of your ability to manipulate energy and to create, which you incorporate much more of than you recognize.

RODNEY: Let me put it in this context. I engage what we call a healing exercise on a regular basis with members of the institute I belong to. I’m taken back to an example that you gave me of being in the presence of a monk and that while in the presence of that monk, I might feel or sense a tremendous healing energy. That monk is really not doing anything else vis-à-vis me other than deeply focused on acceptance of his self. My metaphor is that this is kind of like a fountain of energy that goes out.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: This is an example of his personal power?

ELIAS: Yes, his ability to manipulate energy. To manipulate energy intentionally and create would be the evidence or the expression of your power.

RODNEY: I thank you for clarifying that for me.

ELIAS: You are welcome.

RODNEY: I’m jumping around here... I’ve spoken to you about my math problem in the past. Some time ago, I purposely took a different tact with this problem, and I purposefully meditated and focused on approaching the problem as though it were my playtime. I realize that one of the things I do deeply appreciate is playing with mathematical symbols. Instead of solving this problem for a particular purpose, I could simply play with it, and I got very playful with it.

Out of that playfulness, I came upon a solution which I was quite pleased with. I have not submitted this for review with any other mathematician who would know what I’m talking about, but my sense is that within the definitions of what mathematics is with mathematicians at large, they would see what I’ve done as quote/unquote a correct solution. Can you comment as to whether or not I would actually receive that kind of confirmation from other mathematicians?


RODNEY: Another question I have regarding it is that this function that I’ve worked with could be considered a kernel of a larger function, more generalized.


RODNEY: I think in association with that question, let me ask you another. Outside of being just a curiosity, will what I’m doing have any use in a practical sense, or is it more trivial than that? I mean, I don’t see any practical use for what I’ve done.

ELIAS: It could.

RODNEY: It could have a practical use?

ELIAS: Yes. But what have you presented to yourself in information in association with this problem and solution?

RODNEY: Well, what I’ve presented myself with is a very clear understanding of where I’ve been coming from all these years. You and I have talked about absoluteness and expectations regarding my interest in this problem. What I got to see when I approached this from a very playful place is that the solution has basically been staring me in the face for quite a few years. I was unwilling to really look at it in the manner in which I did look at it.

ELIAS: And what also have you offered yourself in information?

RODNEY: I really appreciate playing with what I like to play with!

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: I got a real kick out of doing this.

ELIAS: And that the process is actually more significant than the outcome, for the process is the exploration.

RODNEY: Right, so much so that this thing has been sitting somewhere in my apartment here for many months, and now that I’ve done it, as far as getting it together and submitting it to somebody, my interest in doing that is much, much less.

ELIAS: And I may express to you, my friend, congratulations, for you have solved the question which is most frequently asked by more individuals within your physical reality than any other: What is the meaning of life? (Rodney laughs) And that is the presentment.

RODNEY: To enjoy the process.

ELIAS: The process, the exploration, the experiences.

RODNEY: I thank you for that validation, very much so.

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! You are quite welcome, my friend.

RODNEY: My sense was that I’d made a major breakthrough when I started enjoying it for its own sake.


RODNEY: The efficiency of my thought processes became so much clearer.

ELIAS: Precisely, for if you are engaging playfulness, you generate much more of an ease and you generate much more of an allowance, for you express less or no expectations of yourself or of the process.

RODNEY: This is another thing I was going to talk to you about, but it seems appropriate to bring it up here. A friend of mine asked me to go with her on a gambling ship out of Long Island, three or four months ago. I wasn’t really interested in gambling, but I said yeah, I’ll go. So we went out on a ship — they have to go out three miles before they can start to gamble — and I sat down at a black jack table and immediately lost $100, maybe more. So I said you know, I’m enjoying the boat ride and there’s a beautiful observation deck up above and it’s a lovely day. I’m fortunate that I only had to lose $100 in order to see that I don’t want to do this anymore. (Elias laughs with Rodney) The tension and the fear of losing and all of that, it had all been clearly brought to mind.

I went up and I sat on the deck for a couple of hours, chatted with other people, and had a great afternoon. So we’re on the way back to port, and I go downstairs and sit down next to a roulette table and I’m watching the game. All of a sudden, I’m seeing all these chips, a lot of chips on the roulette table, and they fly here and there. I become fascinated with the playfulness of all these chips flying all over. (Elias laughs) All of a sudden it felt like fun! It felt like a game! So I say, “Give me $50 worth of chips.” Well, do you know, I played the game for the fun of playing the game, and I started getting these intuitive impulses to play one number or another number. There was no expectation. There was no “am I going to win a lot of money or not?” As a matter of fact, my thinking process was rather empty. I was just enjoying the energy of what was going on at the table. I kind of had a blank sense of my intellect. And I made quite a few winning bets!

I finished the day winning all the money I had lost plus a couple of bucks besides. I really, really recognized the difference between sitting at that black jack table, right, and the difference between sitting at that roulette table. When I sat there the energy was so different. Sitting at the roulette table was fun and it was playful, and I was getting messages as to where to put my money! (Elias chuckles) Anyway, yes — the meaning of life!

ELIAS: Therefore, in this, what you have allowed yourself to experience is how easily you generate if you are incorporating playfulness and fun — how open you are with yourself, how easily you translate your communications and generate your impressions, and how clearly you hear them. Whereas, if you are not incorporating that playfulness, you generate more of a thickness. You do not always hear your communications. You do not always generate an openness to be allowing your impressions, and many times you incorporate much more struggle.

RODNEY: This group that I’m associated with here, they have what they call psychic circles, séances, and I’ve been in and out of three or four of them over the last four years. I got tired of sitting there for an hour and getting nothing. But I KNOW that somebody wants to play psychic games. That’s fun! I recently joined a group which is much more playful, was not so serious about quote/unquote mediumship, and I found over the last three or four weeks that approaching that playfully is getting me very accurate information, very accurate impressions. (Elias chuckles) And again, it’s this element of playfulness.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: That’s a nice way to stay in the here and now, isn’t it?

ELIAS: Yes, for playfulness generates an automatic by-product of openness and allowance without struggle. In that, if you are engaging playfulness and incorporating fun, you automatically express an allowance and an openness, and you do not have to TRY to express openness or allowance.

RODNEY: (Laughs) I like that! Yes, yes, yes, yes! (Elias laughs) We have actually... Oh my god, we have gone seven minutes over the allotted time. Oh, she’s going to kill me. Elias?

ELIAS: Yes, my friend?

RODNEY: I have to say goodbye. Damn! Wait a minute — no, I’m not. I can’t read my own stopwatch. (Elias chuckles) Oh, I’m not that far over. We’ve got another 15, 30 minutes. This is accurate to so many decimal places that it confuses me. Good! I had some other questions I wanted to talk about. Oh, and I like what you said about playfulness. That’s really hitting home.

I’ve noticed of late that my dreams are bringing me... There’s a whole lot of symbols that I’ve created over the years, and it began to look like I’m bringing all of these symbols into the same dream in different ways — staircases, let’s see, highways, heavy moving equipment, things like that.

I had a dream this morning, and part of the dream was that I’m in a room and there are things flying in one window and out the other window. Some of these are birds, and some of them are miniature airplanes. Somehow, in the dream I sense that the man-made ones, I shouldn’t say man-made, but the ones that weren’t birds were there to spy on me or surveillance. I couldn’t let that happen, so I was trying to devise ways to prevent them from entering my room.

My impression on writing this down is the idea that I’m not alone. I guess it has something to do with my impression of my own personal privacy. I’m not talking about privacy relative to other individuals in this reality. I’m talking about my privacy relative to those essences which may be looking in on me. Does that make any sense to you?


RODNEY: I think this may be the first objective indication to me that I have an issue with that.

ELIAS: For you incorporate the belief that you may hide and you may keep secret from other individuals, but not necessarily from other essences.

RODNEY: That is correct. And tied up in that, especially relative to other essences, is my duplicity that some of the things I do are wrong and bad.

ELIAS: But that would be YOUR association.

RODNEY: I’m saying that’s my association, duplicity. (Elias laughs) So that’s what this dream is about?


RODNEY: Is there anything else I can get out of it?

ELIAS: Remember, outside of your physical reality and even outside of you...

RODNEY: There are no secrets.

ELIAS: Not merely that there are no secrets, but also the identification of what is bad or wrong is relative to you and how you perceive it.

RODNEY: I sense that very clearly.

ELIAS: Outside of your physical reality, the beliefs do not apply, for there is no association with the beliefs outside of your physical reality. They are relative to your physical reality, and duplicity is highly individualized. Any expression of it is relative to each of you. What you deem to be bad or wrong or unacceptable behavior may matter not to another individual.

RODNEY: I’ll have to remember that the next time I want to shoot down a UFO flying through my room. (Elias laughs)

In another dream I had last night, I’m upstairs in the bedroom, and there are people looking at the house, I think to buy it. One of them wants to look in the closet. I’m not sure that I want him to look in the closet, because I think he’s trying to sell me something, like maybe insurance. There’s a question of there being a stairway in the closet that goes downstairs. I tell him there’s not only one, there’s two of them, but one of them is blocked off. Now, this was a crazy thing that came to me this morning. He was very pleasant, but was that individual in my dream representative of your energy?


RODNEY: It was! I’ll give myself one point for that. (Elias laughs) About this dream, my son steps on my glasses and breaks them, and I pick up a handful of the sand that they were in in order not to loose the little screw that binds the side of the glasses on. I spill the sand on the floor, and I’m sweeping up the sand after I found the screw. Subsequent to that scene which you were in, because there were all the people there during that time, I’m in like a parking lot and I’m driving a car around trying to get out of the parking lot, and this huge vehicle comes at me and I have to get out of there so it doesn’t run me over.

Huge equipment is my symbol of essence, very large equipment. My impression from this dream is somehow I’m negotiating within myself, negotiating an openness to opening to essence, negotiating my beliefs around that.

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes, for to this point...

RODNEY: I’m pretty blocked off.

ELIAS: Not necessarily, but I may express to you that you have incorporated somewhat of an intimidation concerning essence and viewing that as much greater than yourself, not objectively incorporating clarity in understanding that you are the embodiment of essence. Therefore, it is not greater than you, for you are all of it. But that is concept.

RODNEY: But I have this belief that I’ll be overwhelmed.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: And I’m afraid of that.

ELIAS: For it is not necessarily generating what I would term to be fear, but it is a concept that generates intimidation. Therefore, there is an apprehension.

But you have been moving for a time framework in the direction of attempting to generate that association of yourself as being essence, therefore experiencing it and generating that into reality rather than merely concept. In that movement towards that mergence of concept and reality, you are allowing yourself to generate presentments to yourself that are somewhat more familiar, and also define to yourself what your apprehension is and what your intimidation is, to allow yourself to evaluate that and thusly move beyond that.

RODNEY: Another dream I had along the same — at least my impressions were similar — I’m looking at some small foundations for little homes. They’re very neat. The yard around them is a bit of a mess, and there’s somebody cleaning up the debris, the brush, the vines. I help him and then I have to go home. Everybody leaves, and I don’t have car, so I hitchhike. A man comes along in this funny-looking green tractor, and he gives me a ride. I don’t get in it; I have to sit on top of it. But he can’t take me all the way home, and incidentally, throughout this dream I’m trying to remember where home is, and I can’t remember. He only goes so far, and he moves into something that looks like a farm. I have to get out and hoof it. At that point, the highway is much higher than where I’m at, so I see a stairway and I walk up the stairway. There are a lot of stairways in my dreams, and normally they start getting narrower and narrower. In this, the stairway was made out of sod; you know, you stick a shovel in the grass and you turn it over. The stairway was made out of chunks of sod going up the side of the hill. I get almost to the top and it becomes very slippery, and I slide all the way to the bottom. So I go off in another direction. There are cars flying by me at breakneck speed. They’re crashing into the side of the mountain, and they’re making the dirt fly. So I cross the road and I come to kind of a dead end. I get a sense that there’s granite there, gray granite rock, like a rock mountain, and maybe gray gravel on the side of the road. I have a sense that it’s a dead end, and I also have a sense that there’s an elevation there, because I can see out in the distance lights, like you might see lights in a town, flying over it in an airplane.

My impression of this is somewhat similar to what we were talking about with the dream we just discussed, with the exception that I thought the gravel, the gray mountain or the rock symbolized maybe my approaching disengagement. Another thought I had was that you were the person driving the tractor, or my symbol of it.

ELIAS: Correct.

Now; I may express to you in this dream imagery, you are offering yourself symbology concerning the journey within physical focus. In one, you are allowing yourself to become familiar with your apprehensions and your intimidations concerning essence and being essence, and in the other, you are generating a symbolic type of traveling through one focus. Therefore, you are identifying as essence and also as focus.

RODNEY: So my impression that winding up at a dead end and not really knowing where home was...

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: a sense was my symbol for the end of life.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Do you have anything else to say about that dream?

ELIAS: It is an interesting representation of how you perceive the movement through what you term to be life and your perception of how it is incorporated, that you are participating and interacting with other individuals and you are generating foundations, and as you continue movement, you incorporate what you perceive to be helpfulness in your journey, but eventually your perception is that you must accomplish the journey yourself. And you must...

RODNEY: You only took me part of the way.

ELIAS: Correct, for eventually you must be finishing your journey. You must be offering yourself your own direction and generating the movement yourself. Which is not an uncommon perception, but it is interesting, for it is somewhat askew.

RODNEY: Askew in what way?

ELIAS: In that you are ALWAYS interacting with other individuals throughout your journey. You are always generating new foundations, and you are always incorporating elements of interaction that is helpful within...

RODNEY: With other focuses, etcetera?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: And a lot of essences.

ELIAS: Correct. Therefore, there is no point in which you are, in a manner of speaking, done with that and thusly must carry on alone yourself.

RODNEY: Ah! I thought you were going to say that, going it alone.

ELIAS: Correct. For there is continuous participation and continuous interaction in energy and a continuous cooperation and willingness to share and support. This is the element of the lack of separation.

RODNEY: Thank you.

ELIAS: You are welcome.

RODNEY: Thank you, thank you. This brings to mind, I visited my sister two or three weeks ago, and she showed me a document that had been typed in 1920, I believe, by an Alice Baker. It was automatic writing and a discussion of it with a person they referred to as Searles, Alfred Searles. They referred to him as Uncle Searles, who at that point had been deceased. He was talking about he knew metaphysics, spiritualism, as opposed to the more orthodox religions. I found it an interesting document. I actually got something out of it, a more personal concept of helpfulness when one does disengage. Of course, he went into that at great length. Other than that, it’s not something that I would go back and re-read, I don’t think.

My question is my great-great grandfather, I believe, married a woman whose name was Baker. I believe she was a relative of the Searles’. In other words, the Searles’ and the Baker’s if nothing else were great-great aunts and uncles of mine. Is there any connection with these essences and myself at this time?

ELIAS: In what capacity?

RODNEY: Are any of them attempting to communicate with me?

ELIAS: There is interaction. It is your choice of whether you incorporate an allowance of that or not.

RODNEY: Really? A question just came to mind that someone once asked you if they had any observing essences. You answered the question, and I’m wondering if I have observing essences, and two, would I recognize any of them?

ELIAS: First question, yes. Second question, clarify “would you recognize them.”

RODNEY: Would they be an essence of any focus that I know in this physical reality?


RODNEY: Are they essences of any of my lineage? (Pause)


RODNEY: Is there any other way I could recognize them?

ELIAS: In allowing yourself to be aware of the energy, yes.

RODNEY: How many observing essences do I have? Is it a large number or a small number?

ELIAS: Presently, four.

RODNEY: Are these all of the family of Sumafi?


RODNEY: Could you tell me what their families are? And a name, a tone?

ELIAS: One Sumafi, one Sumari, one Ilda, one Zuli.

RODNEY: What is the tone for the Sumafi essence? (Pause)

ELIAS: Hugo.

RODNEY: Hugo? H-U-G-O?


RODNEY: Wonderful! I like that name. The Sumari? (Pause)

ELIAS: Koolquin, K-O-O-L-Q-U-I-N.

RODNEY: The Ilda? (Pause)

ELIAS: Vyn, V-Y-N.

RODNEY: And the Zuli? (Pause)

ELIAS: Barnar, B-A-R-N-A-R.

RODNEY: Our time is definitely up now. (Elias chuckles) Have these been with me for a while?


RODNEY: For my life?


RODNEY: There’s so much more I want to talk to you about!

ELIAS: Ha ha ha! Very well! I shall be anticipating our next discussion.

RODNEY: I wanted to talk to you about bumping into things.

ELIAS: (Laughs) And perhaps bumping into myself, also.

RODNEY: I’ve been able to identify you in my dreams. I’m quite encouraged by that. Thank you, Elias.

ELIAS: You are very welcome, my dear friend.

RODNEY: My love to you.

ELIAS: And to you also. And as always, I express to you my supportiveness and my encouragement. My dear friend, in affection and fondness, au revoir.

RODNEY: Au revoir.

Elias departs after 1 hour, 30 minutes.

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Copyright 2004 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.