Addictions
Topics:
“WTF, Elias?”
Saturday, June 7, 2014 (Private/Phone)
Participants: Mary (Michael) and John (Rrussell)
ELIAS: Good afternoon!
JOHN: Good afternoon.
ELIAS: Ha ha! And what shall we discuss this day?
JOHN: Let me start out with a couple of questions for other people. This is from a friend known as Ivy: ”Elias, I would love to know my intent in this focus, as I have often experienced a thickness in energy in recent years. Phrases that pop up are contrast, quite extremes, atmosphere, and reinventing my own wheel. See if you can coax E into giving me my intent versus merely clues.”
ELIAS: And did you actually interact with this individual?
JOHN: No, I received this via a message.
ELIAS: Very well. Then I will express the same to this individual as I have to all of you, and that would be that I would very much encourage the individual to be evaluating what has the theme been throughout your life. In this, not merely now or in recent time framework or years but throughout the lifetime. In this – and I would once again express the same as I have with many other individuals – it is important that you incorporate some time and allow yourself to evaluate this yourselves, for that allows you a much greater understanding. In that, I am always willing to discuss what the discovery has been, once the individual has allowed themselves that time to evaluate.
JOHN: I’ve got one other question for somebody else, essence name Luelyth. Her personal symbol, she doesn’t have a clear impression, but a fractal pattern, spiral object, ammonite shell, perhaps opalescent or iridescent color. Her lifelong doodle has been in the shape of a sparkler or the seed-head of a dandelion.
ELIAS: Ah! I would be acknowledging of that. Very well, I shall offer this individual’s symbol, and a part of that symbol would be a dandelion. In this, I would express that the center aspect of the symbol is actually three dandelions. In this, they are equal in size. The three, as you may be aware, symbolizing balance.
Now; around these three dandelions, there is a square, and this square is purple. The square is set inside of a green stone, jade, and the stone is surrounded by moving air or wind.
JOHN: Anything more to say about that?
ELIAS: No.
JOHN: Let’s see, where to begin. I tried to crowd source some questions for this session, and I got some good advice, I think. Do you think?
ELIAS: And what was your advice?
JOHN: For example, Terri sent me, basically: you are losing the forest for the trees and the leaves, and you are studying just the leaf and losing the big picture. Let me go back to what Terri had written: Could you tell me where my greatest strengths and gifts are in this focus, and give me a direction of action that would be more in line with my natural flow and some suggestions about how I can experience more ease in my movement? And I would add let’s talk about that on a day-to-day level. That’s the thrust, I think, of where I want to take this session.
But at the same time, I look back on some of the sessions we’ve had over these past several months since December, and when I think back on them sometimes and some of the things you’ve told me, it’s like what the fuck. For example – let me see here, because I wrote it yesterday – you sort of encouraged me in certain directions, but then I would discover that it’s not my energy but you were encouraging me anyway. I don’t know what you’re... I feel kind of manipulated by you, and I’m kind of annoyed.
ELIAS: In what capacity? Be more specific.
JOHN: First of all, you’ve talked about my energy: “this is not your energy.” One thing Tyler pointed out is it’s like Elias is just mirroring you. It’s like you’ve got this firm or set direction and he’s just mirroring back what you want to hear.
You are always like “that’s not your energy” or “this is your energy, your natural energy,” but it’s just my natural energy right this second, right? I mean, it’s not to say that it’s my natural energy next year; your perception changes. That’s what you said last time: I encouraged you in these directions so that you would discover it’s not your energy or whatever. But I’m not sure the lesson was even learned, and it’s kind of like what the hell...
ELIAS: Stop.
JOHN: Like we talked...
ELIAS: Stop, stop, stop!
Now; I expressed be more specific, and you are continuing to speak in generalities, which is a very familiar and typical expression that you engage with myself. You are speaking in generalities and in vague concepts. Be specific. What are you confused about or what are you conflicted with specifically? If you are speaking about your energy and what I have expressed to you, what is your confusion? What are you conflicted with specifically or what is your confusion specifically, for it is difficult to engage a productive conversation if you are not being specific. If you move in directions of generalities, I will move in directions of generalities. But I am also aware that you want to move in directions that are more specific, and at times we do, but that is dependent upon you and how you are directing of the conversation and the discussion. Therefore, it is not beneficial to you to express to myself that you are generally discontented.
JOHN: One thing that confused me is last session you were like “your energy is not to approach strangers,” right? But then in several other sessions, you’ve encouraged me to approach strangers. Now you’re saying that’s not my energy and that confuses me, too, because is that not my energy always, or is that not my natural energy ever, or is that just my energy right now? (1)
ELIAS: Very well. That is an excellent point, and I am understanding how that can be misconstrued or misunderstood and a paradox.
Now; what I would express to you is that there are two factors: what you are expressing now and what is your natural energy. What you are expressing now and what you have been expressing is that you are not as inclined to be initiating. Is that your natural energy? Not necessarily. I would express that if you were expressing more genuine confidence with yourself that naturally you would be more inclined to initiate with other individuals and not necessarily waiting for cues from other individuals.
Now; in this, I am understanding what your confusion is, for [in] recognizing what your natural energy is, I was encouraging you to attempt to initiate in some manners with other individuals.
JOHN: It’s not like I’m some quiet guy that’s just mouse-like and sits around at home.
ELIAS: I am understanding, but in this, the point of that was also to encourage you to step outside of your usual guidelines, to engage some types of different actions than you are generally accustomed to.
JOHN: But I did try that.
ELIAS: And you expressed to myself that you disliked it, which I accepted. In this, I am understanding that you have attempted, and you dislike it. And in that, we move back to the original situation in which there is some discomfort in expressing yourself genuinely, but you also hold very strongly to guidelines that you have set for yourself, which we discussed in our previous conversation.
JOHN: We did?
ELIAS: Yes, we did.
JOHN: What guidelines were those? Can you refresh my memory?
ELIAS: In that, you have set a type of guidelines for yourself, in which you are willing to engage in certain actions and you are unwilling to engage in others. I may not have used the word “guideline,” but that is, in its basis, what you have established and what you have expressed to myself, that you have established certain actions, certain willingness to engage in certain capacities, and have definitely set guidelines in which you are not willing to engage in other capacities.
JOHN: You’ve talked about language a lot – and this might be a question with relation to the language – and it’s still like what the fuck. Because I’m supposed to engage, but let’s see here, no language, completely lacking the experiences, not understanding the other person. They speak the language and have experiences I don’t or I have no understanding of. I don’t even have that, whatever, friends with benefits energy, I don’t know how to project this, and it’s just like what the fuck. I’ll go out, and yep, you’re right! So if I’m confused in those sorts of interactions, I think back to my sessions and it’s like yep, I don’t know what the fuck I’m supposed to do. (2)
ELIAS: (Pause) Now; I will express to you in a similar manner that I did in our previous conversation, and perhaps we will move beyond this more quickly than we did in our previous conversation. This is a very familiar and consistent direction that you engage with myself, that initially you are projecting a considerably opposing energy, a threatened energy, and you reflect that in being argumentative and expressing that you do not understand what I am expressing to you and expressing that our conversation previously is entirely invalidated. Which, in the conversation, once we moved beyond that period of argumentativeness and opposing, you were understanding what I was expressing to you. But [you] initiate each conversation in the same capacity, in which you become argumentative, you invalidate what has already been discussed as it being nonsensical to you and that you do not understand it and that you are entirely confused, and you...
JOHN: I guess what I can say is it’s unpleasant...
ELIAS: Stop! Listen. You engage in a tone which is beyond opposing and moving into entirely invalidating. What you do when you do that, you are not discounting myself, my friend. It matters not. You are not invalidating myself. What you are doing is projecting a forceful expression of discounting you when you express in condescending and sarcastic tones and are expressing in that defensive manner. Do you see what you are doing? You are not discounting of myself – it matters not. I interact with you at your request. Therefore, if you choose to request that I interact with you but you also choose to invalidate all of our interactions, what are you doing? You are discounting you, for you are discounting your ability to understand.
You are an intelligent, aware individual, and you are discounting yourself and your ability to understand what we are discussing – but you do not want me to discuss with you in the capacity of lesser intelligence. Therefore, you want myself to honor your capacity to understand, which I do, but you discount that by expressing a discounting of yourself that you do not understand. No, it is not that you do not understand. It is that you have chosen to move in the direction of certain subjects that are very delicate to you, that are uncomfortable, and that you may be somewhat ready to address but you are also fighting with them.
JOHN: I don’t like the past several sessions. I haven’t walked away enjoying the information, right?
ELIAS: And when you are uncovering wounds, do you think that it will be enjoyable for you to look at them? In this, also it is a matter of moving to a point in which you can stop fighting. You have not moved to that point yet. You want to, but you have not actually expressed that yet. You are continuing to hold to the fight.
JOHN: Then what’s the next beneficial step? If I dig into some of the things you’re saying, there are apparent contradictions on the surface, which you’ve explained. I do have a tendency to confuse myself sometimes in retrospect, looking back on the session, or just plugging it in with this experience or that experience and you said this but that doesn’t correlate with that but it does and it doesn’t.
ELIAS: That is all the fight.
JOHN: I guess there’s two things that maybe we can cover if you’re willing to. So, what is the wound? Is that everything that we have been discussing as a whole, and that’s all there is? Actually, Terri put it really well. Let me pull up her little question: What’s the fundamental thing that’s behind all of it, what’s the deeper issue at the heart of this that you haven’t uncovered yet? Can you just tell me?
As a follow-up question, in the remaining time can you talk about why I’m not jumping up and down comfortable? I’m pretty comfortable in some ways, but you‘re telling me try these groups, and I went out and there’s meet-up groups, there’s not... You said you have to expand your playing field, which I understand; I’m not dumb. I don’t feel comfortable being at home because that’s even more narrowing of the playing field. At the same time, I don’t feel I need to find some sort of comfort on a day-to-day level but comfort that’s not avoiding of what we’re talking about, that’s inclusive of that, and that starting tomorrow, starting now when I walk away from this session, that I can begin to incorporate. Does that make sense?
ELIAS: Yes, it does. But that in itself is the problem, for this is what I expressed to you. You have always set very specific guidelines of what you are willing to do and what you are not, and therefore, what you want from myself is to answer you in the confines of those guidelines of what you are willing to engage and to change your life in a direction that will be fulfilling and comfortable and satisfying to you.
JOHN: That’s funny, because on a number of occasions in these sessions you’re like “you are not willing to engage,” and I always come back to I’m not really sure what it is I’m not willing to engage.
ELIAS: You expressed to myself [in] a previous conversation, I asked you what are you willing to do and do you want to do. You expressed to myself that you work and when you finish work for the day are too tired to engage in any other activities other than you at times enjoy visiting the pub and engaging the other individuals in that location and having conversations with those individuals, and occasionally on a weekend, when you are not working, you are willing, somewhat, to engage some other activities, but very limited.
Now; you reiterated to myself several times in the conversation how much time your work involves and how fatigued you are when you are not working, and that you do not have the motivation or the inclination or the interest in doing much of anything.
JOHN: I go out to eat with my son; we go and play in the park.
ELIAS: I understand engaging with your son, and you did express that at times at the weekend you incorporate time with your son. You also inquired of me in relation to where you live and whether this was the most beneficial area, and we discussed that also. You expressed to myself that your choice is to remain where you are physically because of your son.
Now; are you beginning to see the guidelines that you have set? And you engage myself or want me to offer to you a clear, easy path for you to be satisfied, be comfortable and enjoy yourself and your life within the confines of those guidelines, which only include your son [and] the pub.
JOHN: I like biking. I have a lot of interests. I thought back to the sessions, and it sounds like I’m just some guy... I mean, I’m an intelligent guy.
ELIAS: But you must do them! That is the point! And that is what I was expressing to you previously, and every time I express to you an encouragement in a direction of what you do enjoy or your likes or your preferences, you express “no.” You express...
JOHN: Can I interrupt? For example, you are like “go out and do this,” like go out and interact with strangers – but those are not the people which I’m supposed to date, which confused me last time. But if I do that frequently – and I realize maybe there’s an aspect of my energy that is still confusing to me – if it is not merely uncomfortable but unsuccessful and takes me nowhere and becomes almost devaluing feeling, why would I continue to pursue that?
ELIAS: Let me express to you, my friend, each individual that you have engaged in a relationship with was at one point a stranger to you. Every individual that you will meet that you will perhaps engage a relationship with initially is a stranger to you. Therefore, this opposition that you express, [that] I am expressing to you to go meet strangers and this is unacceptable to you, that is what you do. That is what you have done. Every relationship...
JOHN: I know, I know, but it’s so... By and large, I would perceive my experience in a ratio that is more negative than positive on any given night I’m out or whatever I’m doing. Another reason is – maybe this is a wound that you can talk about – I don’t really want to run into Jane. I mean, I feel super discounted, and part of that is compounded by what we talked about in our session. I realize you were providing me information. But I feel lied to. As I said to her, I have no idea why she continues to contact me on Facebook, though I realize she’s a nice person. I don’t know, maybe I’m just misunderstanding the language. Meanwhile, I feel out-foxed, or I feel not capable of so many of the things that we discuss. I feel so not with it.
ELIAS: Very well.
Now; in this, if you are uncomfortable with encounters with this particular individual, have you expressed to her not to contact you?
JOHN: No, I haven’t. I don’t want to burn bridges. If I wasn’t being discounted and I’m just misunderstanding... But to me, I seem discounted. For example, in my perception I felt lied to, as I expressed to her, which pissed her off. I’m just very confused by the interaction. Part of me thinks she’s a nice person, I’d meet up with her for a dinner or whatever, but I feel very discounted by her. I may be just misunderstanding. I don’t want to be misunderstanding, like the next time I’m in a relationship and somebody’s going on and on and on and on and on about their other relationship, I’ll be oh, they’re not discounting me, they’re just instructing me. I shouldn’t be... I just don’t know, and that’s what confuses me.
ELIAS: Very well. Listen to what you are feeling. That is simple, and that is easy. If you are uncomfortable and if you are feeling discounted or devalued for the other individual is not focusing upon you and the interaction that the two of you are engaging but expressing conversation in relation to another individual that is not even present, listen to what you are feeling. Why would you continue to place yourself in that situation, or more so invite that situation to you?
JOHN: I mean, if they’re a nice person and if, as you have already explained to me, if there is not the discounting going on, my feeling is a function of I’m merely unaccustomed or I have no experience of this and somebody is merely trying to instruct me.
ELIAS: I am understanding, but I would also express that when you are feeling discounted and distressed and uncomfortable, you cannot evaluate through that in that moment, and it is very difficult to actually give yourself any valuable information. For, the first step would be to stop placing yourself in situations or inviting situations to you that invoke that feeling and that expression within you.
JOHN: That’s where my barriers or whatever, guidelines, come up. Why would I want to put myself in a club downtown where I’m trying to talk to people and I get dissed quite a lot because I’m not speaking that language or projecting this or that? Why would I put myself in those situations or even neutral situations where I’m engaging somebody? But if it’s more of a potential romantic capacity, even in a neutral environment or that kind of tensely pick-up type place, why would I put myself in those situations? But then I have to expand at the same time.
ELIAS: Very well. I am understanding your confusion, and I would agree with you. Why would you place yourself in a situation in which you are uncomfortable in any capacity, whether it be in relation to a stranger or whether it be in relation to an individual that you already know? In this, I would agree with you, and I would express that if it is that uncomfortable for you to place yourself in situations in which you may be interacting with strangers, then do not. I was suggesting that to allow you to perhaps move in directions that are more natural to you, but you may not be ready to do that yet.
What is also significant is not to place yourself in situations with individuals that you do know that generate the same expression of feeling discounted or not seen, and in which you feel uncomfortable.
JOHN: I hate to burn bridges, but maybe that’s the thing.
ELIAS: Let me also express to you, you are not necessarily burning a bridge. For in this, you can express yourself genuinely that this is difficult for you, and that you are not necessarily discounting the other individual or expressing that you dislike the other individual, but that it is important for you to incorporate some time to heal.
JOHN: Was it entirely misunderstanding – or is it, present tense – that’s going on, or is there actually some discounting of me going on?
ELIAS: I would express that it is both. Is it intentional? No. But there are many expressions of discounting that individuals engage that they do not necessarily intend. They are not aware of what they are doing. Therefore, I would express that it is not intended discounting or hurtful, but that is not to say that it is not.
JOHN: I’m still very confused why this individual is continuing to contact me.
ELIAS: Why does she continue to contact you? For you allow it. If you allow it, it is the same as inviting it.
JOHN: What have I communicated? This is why I don’t engage these kinds of experiences. I mean, it’s...
ELIAS: Let me also express to you that individuals in many situations will continue in interaction even if it is negative and even if it is conflicting, for it is familiar, and they will continue to express in that manner. If it continues to be allowed, they will continue to do it and engage it.
JOHN: I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
ELIAS: One of the reasons that individuals continue to engage conflict with the other is that one or the other or both of the individuals are desperately attempting to be right and express to the other individual until they also see the same point of view.
JOHN: See, that’s another thing with our sessions. I feel like sometimes I have to read between the lines. I think what you mean specifically is that some of our interactions, as infrequent as they may be, are about “you’ve got to see it from my point of view.”
ELIAS: Clarify that.
JOHN: The communications that I engage with this individual, when she contacts me or I contact her or respond to her, there is an underlying “you’ve got to see my point of view” kind of thing.
ELIAS: Yes.
JOHN: Sometimes in your sessions, I feel like I have to read between the lines. So, if I look at this wound, was I genuinely lied to a little bit? Maybe I have a question that you’ve already answered. If I’m intelligent, I can put two and two together, right? That’s a deep wound. And this is just merely an interaction that pours salt on it, right?
ELIAS: Yes.
JOHN: What is the rest of the wound?
ELIAS: I would express that the wound is more to do with your perception of yourself being disadvantaged, that you generate a perception of yourself that you express a disadvantage, that you did not express in certain manners at certain ages, and therefore that places you in a position of being disadvantaged.
JOHN: I’m still confused, because you used that word and I hadn’t thought of it that way before you put it that way. I didn’t even know the language existed, right?
ELIAS: It matters not whether you knew what the specifics were. That is the point, that you did not know what the specifics were, and you have been moving in a direction for many years not knowing what the specifics were but generating the influences and not seeing what was influencing you.
JOHN: In terms of the language and attachments that we have talked about, that was kind of groundbreaking – wow, language with the gender energy. Is there some other factor that you would express to me that I am not aware of, similar to the language or whatever?
ELIAS: I would express that it is a matter of becoming more aware, as you continue to move, of the subtle nuances that occur in the influences to you of incorporating that perception of being at a disadvantage.
JOHN: Could you...? I understand conceptually.
ELIAS: Not that you knew what the particulars or the specifics were, but that you can see, in obvious manners throughout your adult life, that there are some perhaps undefined differences between yourself and other individuals, and you recognize that through the interactions that you have with your female partners by what they express. You begin to gather, in a manner of speaking, that there are differences of yourself and other individuals, which is what, in fact, lead you to begin these conversations with myself, is [that] noticing. And in that, remember: You are reflecting. You are always reflecting in different capacities. Therefore, you are giving yourself clues, and in that, through time, more and more, you began evaluating, not necessarily entirely defining, but evaluating that perhaps there are differences between yourself and other male individuals.
JOHN: What are those, beyond what we’ve already talked about?
ELIAS: I would express that that is a part of what you would term to be the problem, is that you are looking for more differences than there are. You are attempting to find some dramatic differences between yourself and other male individuals that will explain to you why your relationships with these different women have not been successful. For, you are comparing yourself with other male individuals and attempting to find a bigger reason of differences.
JOHN: And there isn’t?
ELIAS: I would express to you, my friend, that other than what I have already offered to you, there are not tremendous differences between yourself and other male individuals.
JOHN: One factor is time. I mean partially the session, but gosh, my age. It’s where my attraction lies. I tend to think of myself as 23, but...
ELIAS: And I would express that you express your physical outward appearance quite well as a young, virile, male individual. In this, once again I would express that your idea is worse than what actually is, that you incorporate the idea of age and what that means; but in actually, you are presenting an image of yourself as a young, healthy, virile, male individual.
JOHN: The alarm went off, but by my clock we have two minutes. I don’t know, should I try and learn the language? You said I could read books, but then when I read books it’s like there is no language. It’s just people saying you should be really explicit and use words about what you want, or some say there is a language and they have these silly pick-up guides. I don’t understand. You seem to say there is a language, but then there seems to not be. I don’t understand.
ELIAS: Very well. Let us move away from that subject, for that obviously is merely confusing you. In this, this is somewhat of a moot point, anyway, in this present time framework, for you are not engaging in a relationship.
JOHN: No, but I engage interactions.
ELIAS: Yes, you do engage interactions, and in that, what I would express at this present time [that] is more important is for you to be paying attention to whether you are comfortable or not, and in your interactions with other individuals, allowing yourself to express in manners that are comfortable for you and not necessarily so serious.
JOHN: That’s an interesting observation, like yeah.
ELIAS: Allow yourself to enjoy yourself, enjoy the company of other individuals and pay attention. Are you comfortable, and what would be more comfortable in a particular situation? Rather than moving on autopilot when you are engaging with other individuals, actually pay attention. Pay attention to what you are feeling, and pay attention to what would alter what you are feeling. What would be more comfortable for you?
JOHN: Any suggestions on other activities? I ride my bike. I went to one of those meet-up groups. It’s like a meditation, and nothing really came out of it, much. I don’t mean to be dense, but it’s not like there’s a ton...
ELIAS: Begin with what interests you. Begin with that.
Now; I would express an acknowledgment of you in this conversation, for in this conversation, this is the first time in a considerable time framework that you actually ventured into offering any subject that you are actually interested in. Begin there, begin with what interests you and expand on that. That is the easiest direction to begin.
Very well. I will be continuing to express my energy with you always in encouragement and in supportiveness. It is always present with you.
JOHN: I will try not to be as frustrated with... Yeah.
ELIAS: Regardless of how frustrated you may be with myself, I will continue to express my support, for I am understanding that your frustration is basically rooted in what you perceive you are not or cannot do, and I understand. But you can, and you will.
JOHN: I have to learn. I’m not sure how jumping up and down I am but...
ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well, my friend. Until our next meeting, tremendous affection, as always.
JOHN: Au revoir.
ELIAS: Au revoir.
(Elias departs after 1 hour, 4 minutes.)
(1) John’s note: In a previous x-filed session, Elias and I discussed approaching new individuals (“strangers”) in romantic capacities in settings designed for that purpose, such as nightclubs, bars, or pubs. I have a generally extroverted personality and enjoy talking to new people, but my success has been very limited in terms of generating romantic interactions in that capacity. Elias described part of the challenge as related to my current location and a low resonance with the local culture.
(2) John’s note: In another, previous x-filed session I had, Elias mentioned a sexual and romantic “language” that is both non-verbal and verbal (though verbally indirect). Individuals generally learn this language through experience during adolescence and into their early-twenties. I am beyond that age range. Elias described my knowledge of the language as significantly limited, thereby affecting situations such as in point (1) above.
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