Session 2586


“The Science Session”
“Electromagnetic energy, New Directions in Energy Sources, Fabry-Perot Interferometers, Time Traveling Markers, Tom Bearden, Minkowski Space, EFT, Neurophone, Different Uses of Energy, Fear of Change, Climate Change, William Tiller and Psychoenergetics, Bob Monroe and Bruce Moen”

Saturday, July 26, 2008 (Private)

Participants: Mary (Michael), Ben (Alexe), Paul (Paneus), Rodney (Zacharie), John (Rrussell) with Norm (Stephen) via telephone.

ELIAS: Good morning!

GROUP: Good morning to you! Hi, Elias! Good morning!

ELIAS: (Laughs) And what shall we discuss?

RODNEY: Ah! Paul here was laughing. He thought you might have a lecture prepared. (Group laughter)

ELIAS: I shall leave the questions to you.

RODNEY: Very good.

BEN: Thank you, Elias. I guess I go first. I’ve been working on something I’d asked you before about, trying to understand electromagnetic energy. And there’s sort of a revolution happening with new forms of that. And just trying to understand, there’s sort of a common aspect to all these devices. And I’m trying to understand how to actualize it and make work of Mr. Bearden, Thomas Moray, Nikola Tesla and all these devices that are sort of coming to the forefront. And it seems like there’s something I’m missing to understand electromagnetism.

ELIAS: In what capacity?

BEN: In that it seems as though there’s a lot of stored potential energy or energy in the universe that can be tapped into without burning fuels and things like that. It’s just simply in the environment. And people like Sir Thomas Henry Moray in the 1930s built a device that simply was a box that could extract energy from seemingly nothing. And it has a lot in common with other devices. I start to see a thread, but I don’t fully understand. And I’m just wondering how some of these devices are working, or what is there in nature that is escaping people that can make this actual?

ELIAS: What is the element specifically that you are confused with?

BEN: That it seems as though there’s ambient energy in the environment that can be tapped into, but it seems as though there’s a mysterious behavior of the interaction between magnetism and electricity that is - there’s like a frequency involved, and some people design a tuning coil and they just extract the energy, and other people do it with purely the interaction of permanent magnets to create this effect. And there’s not a full understanding of what’s happening there, but they’re creating it.

And just a sort of further understanding of Thomas Moray, his device was simply a coil, but we’ve never understood it fully, that I have read. So I’m just trying to understand that. And Thomas Bearden has described a lot of these things, and I had asked you once before, and you had told me that magnetism was the input and electricity was the output.

ELIAS: Correct.

BEN: And -

ELIAS: And generating frequencies attracts one or the other or both. It is energy. Energy attracts like energy, regardless of what it is. In any situation, in any expression, energy attracts what matches it. Therefore, when you generate a particular energy, be it electro or magnetic, you will attract that energy automatically. It automatically seeks what it matches, and therefore it is effortless. There is no effort or complicated method involved. It is merely a matter of projecting an energy and therefore automatically attracting the energy that matches it.

Therefore, if you are generating a magnetic energy you will increase that, for you will attract it. And you are correct; it is in existence within your environment, within your atmosphere. You do not see it, but it exists, just as you do not see your air but it exists.

And in that, there are properties within your atmosphere, be they electro or magnetic, for these are base elements in your reality. And the principle is very simple: whatever you generate, you will attract what matches it automatically.

BEN: A question that comes from that is as these things develop and as we figure out how to create different forms of energy, there’s a lot of potential fear and trauma amongst people that control conventional energy forms. And I was just wondering your thoughts on how to develop some of these things without scaring people or causing trauma. Because it seems to be what holds back things is people not accepting change, especially in this area and how it relates to fears of global warming and power struggles.

ELIAS: I am understanding. Let me express to you, in this present time framework you all collectively are moving in a direction, in a manner of speaking, that will force you to move in new directions and create new sources of energy. They are actually not new sources of energy, but to harness those sources of energy. You are pushing yourselves in a direction, whether there is opposition or not.

And yes, in any type of significant change there is resistance, whether it be with governments, whether it be with established companies, whether it be with an individual. When you engage significant changes, they can be exciting but it is also unfamiliar. And unfamiliar influences resistance.

In this, individuals themselves and collectively are safe in what is familiar. The familiar is predictable. You understand it, and therefore you deem it to be safe. It is not necessarily comfortable. There is a difference between safety and comfort. Individuals feel safe even if they are uncomfortable, if they are moving within the familiar.

But just as individuals at times may move themselves in experiences and situations that place them in the corner, so to speak, this is what you are collectively doing. You are creating a push. You have already established information to the masses, and the collective is educated enough. Even if they do not understand the mechanics of the change, they understand the importance of the change.

And in this, those individuals that you view to be in power of very significant and established companies and businesses, they are in the minority. And to further their OWN interests, the potential for them to change and to move in directions that are more compatible to the masses is high. There is a very strong potential that they will create new directions and support new directions, for in their expression, one of the most important factors to them is how much they generate. And if they can generate MORE, in an unlimited supply, that becomes attractive. It becomes more attractive than to oppose and to hold to what is limited supply, and it is more in their benefit to be cooperating with the collective, for the collective is becoming louder.

BEN: Most of my working career has been working with optics, microfilm optics, and I’ve never found a good explanation for these microfilm structures we make called Fabry-Perot interferometers, where a mirror can reflect photons, but when you put another mirror behind that mirror, of a particular space, some photons will pass right through the mirror with no loss, and the interaction of photons with these mirrors we make - I make them all day long, but I don’t understand fully what’s happening. And how did the photons know what to do when they interact with these micro-mirrors? It sort of escapes me and a lot of people.

ELIAS: Once again, it is a matter of attraction and matching. And therefore, if you place two mirrors, the objective is to connect with the barrier. If there are two mirrors, the first mirror is not a barrier.

BEN: Yes. We describe it as creating a phase, or it becomes resonant, with a frequency.

ELIAS: Yes, for it is actually not the barrier any longer. The second mirror is the barrier. You theoretically could engage fifteen mirrors, and they would not stop until they reach the final mirror, for they are attracted to the destination.

BEN: Interesting, because I do that. I make up to structures with a hundred mirrors in a sequence. And I can have light pass through all of them perfectly well.

ELIAS: Correct, for they seek the barrier. And in that, they know the destination. And the destination is the FINAL barrier. Therefore, the barriers that APPEAR to be barriers before the final barrier are not viewed as a barrier.

BEN: To the photons.

ELIAS: Correct. Therefore, they pass through to reach the destination.

RODNEY: Can I insert one quick question? Because it’s about your answer.

BEN: Yes.

RODNEY: You stated that energy is attracted to like energy.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: But inherent, I think, in the question is, these devices are attracting more energy than it’s taking to create the first energy.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: So…

ELIAS: This is the point, is that the energy that you produce, that you project, attracts what matches it, and that can be unlimited.

RODNEY: So it just keeps growing?

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Okay. Thank you.

ELIAS: In whatever time framework you maintain the projection of energy, it will continue to attract and attract and attract. And it will continue to increase and increase and increase.

RODNEY: And increase so that the flow is much greater than the initial…?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: Thank you

ELIAS: You are welcome.

PAUL: Hi, Elias!

ELIAS: Welcome.

PAUL: How is light refracted in a time traveler process by that rock that’s near me? My impression is that they project the electromagnetic energy that somehow they get to attract a resonant frequency that aligns with our timeframe. That’s kind of my impression. I guess the question is how is that light refracted in that process near me?

ELIAS: In what capacity? Are you curious in relation to the stone, the rock? Or are you inquiring as to the refraction of light in relation to coordinates..?

PAUL: I’ll take both. Let’s start with the rock.

ELIAS: As I expressed to you previously, the rock is a marker.

PAUL: It doesn’t perform any function other than a map.

ELIAS: Correct.

PAUL: Okay.

ELIAS: It is a marker.

PAUL: Okay.

ELIAS: The spots on the rock do perform the function as a type of map, but not the type of map that you associate with. It is a type of map that expresses certain points in the area. Therefore, light refracts off of those spots that we have discussed.

PAUL: Those other spots, they don’t all have a rock marker?

ELIAS: No.

PAUL: One does, though.

ELIAS: Yes. They are points. The light refracts upon the rock.

PAUL: Light in our timeframe, or from their timeframe?

ELIAS: In your time framework.

PAUL: Okay.

ELIAS: Which creates a beam, so to speak, that points to certain areas in the surroundings.

PAUL: When does that typically occur? It be anytime during the course of the day?

ELIAS: Yes, but generally there are certain time frameworks in the day in which the position of the sun is stronger, and that creates a stronger light refraction, which creates a stronger beam of points to different locations.

The reason these are significant is that, in your terms presently, these are safe landing points. These are points in the actual area that are thin, and therefore they are safe landing points for portation.

PAUL: Now, the spots on the rock, if I measure the distance between each spot, how does that…? Because I know one rock on the far side probably relates to one spot, I can go and use that comparison to figure out how the locations of these other points are at?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: Okay. Then, I noticed, yesterday I was taking a pulsating laser pen shining it on the spots, trying to see if I could get any type of reaction from the spots on the rock. I didn’t get any. I shined around the area. And then I did go back the following day I saw a V on the largest spot, like a V shape. Does that V shape represent any type of activation, or something else? It was a V shape within the largest wet spot.

ELIAS: Yes. Were you to direct a beam of light into the meeting point, that would create a refraction that would create a beam to a particular spot.

PAUL: So if I shined a laser from a laser pen, like a laser pointer pen, to the -

ELIAS: Point.

PAUL: - intersection point of the V on the large wet spot, that would activate the process?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: Crap! What?! (Elias laughs) I was just sort of flickering it back and forth. So, if I did that, how long of a time would it take for the process to activate? Are you talking about five or six minutes or an hour?

ELIAS: It would not be a lengthy time framework. It would be relatively quickly.

PAUL: A few minutes?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: Ah!

ELIAS: But the tricky element is capturing it, for it occurs very fast.

PAUL: But can I see it with my own eyes, or do I need equipment to see it?

ELIAS: It may be possible for you to see it if you are incorporating a lens - a lens that would be similar to photography film.

PAUL: What type of film?

ELIAS: A dark film that would allow you to actually see the strength of the beam. But this is what I was expressing: The tricky element is that it occurs so quickly that your physical eyes may not necessarily capture it, therefore it would be more efficient were you to engage some type of equipment that can slow light, or can slow your viewing of light.

PAUL: A high speed video camera?

ELIAS: Yes. In that, you would not actually view it with your eyes in the moment, but you could view it subsequently.

PAUL: Do they know I’m poking around and investigating in their transit zone?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: What?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: We left a letter... Opan was talking with me and I decided to leave a letter for them, and they haven’t touched the letter yet. But they know the letter is on the rock?

ELIAS: It will not be touched.

PAUL: Because they don’t want to…

ELIAS: That would be a disturbance, and it will not be touched.

PAUL: But they’re okay with me probing around?

ELIAS: Yes. (Laughs)

PAUL: The last thing on that one, then I will jump to some other questions: Can I use their device if I agree not to disturb wherever I decide to go enter?

ELIAS: In this present time framework, no. You do not incorporate the understanding or the knowledge to engage it.

PAUL: I kind of guessed that one.

The other night I had the words in a dream: brilliance, radiance and illuminati/illumination. I think that relates to this refraction process. Was that exactly what is going on, and is there any more meaning behind those three words?

ELIAS: I would express that those words are connected to what you are discussing, and they are also connected to what all of you are discussing.

PAUL: And we have to go sort that out later, huh?

ELIAS: They would be connected with all of your curiosities in relation to energies and how they are configured and what they do.

PAUL: Opan wanted me to ask real quick: Is the primary rock that they dug up the moon rock from Jon and James?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: Oh good. And have we been successful solidifying it from a piece of limestone to a moon rock?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: Cool! (Elias chuckles) We were talking about the other day about how objects sometimes, they’re composed of different percentages of electric energy versus magnetic energy, but sometimes they may display it differently than their true percentage. Can you expand on why they would want to do that, why some objects maybe display more of one versus the another, but that’s not their true nature percentage?

ELIAS: It is dependent upon on what they are being incorporated for or what they are doing.

PAUL: Can you give me an example?

ELIAS: Such as a crystal. A crystal incorporates electro and magnetic energies. But in certain situations it may be expressing more electric energy or it may be expressing more magnetic energy in association with what it is being incorporated for. It can draw IN energy. It can attract energy in some situations, and therefore create more of a magnetic property and expression. Or it can be projecting energy in which it would be expressing more electric energy.

PAUL: Okay. I got it. Getting back to that time traveler refraction process, if I wear polarized sunglasses, would I be able to see the beam better than without the polarized sun glasses?

ELIAS: Yes.

PAUL: The pyramids we talked about that the Archons built channeled electromagnetic energy: what was the original use for that process? Why did they build the pyramids?

ELIAS: There are many reasons, but I would express that the primary reason was to be filtering energy in a particular manner that was twofold in reason: one in association with their beliefs in relation to gods, and one in association with capturing or containing energy in a particular manner as a preservative.

If you contain energy in a certain manner, it can continuously be moving, but consistently in the same manner. Figuratively speaking, it creates a type of circle that creates a layer of energy that is continuously moving but protective. And it creates a preserving effect, which was what was desired.

PAUL: Preserving, as in dead bodies?

ELIAS: Of any -

PAUL: Live things?

ELIAS: - physical manifestation.

RODNEY: Elias, I have a book by Tom Bearden called Excalibur Briefing, and it’s dedicated to explaining a paranormal phenomenon, the interaction of mind and matter. It covers an incredibly large number of subjects. Central to his discussion of the physics involved, he creates what he calls a fundamental correction to classical logic. I will read you a brief sentence:

“The new logic works as follows: either the first three laws apply (i.e., separation of A and not A is permitted), or the fourth law applies” - which is the one he created - “in which the separation of A and not A is not permitted. The fourth law applies only to, and in fact creates, a boundary. The first three laws apply only away from the boundary.”

This law he applies again and again and again throughout this book, and with this logic solves a great many physical issues. For instance, he applies it to the so-called electron split experiment, in which if an electron is shot through the screen without photon interaction, it forms an interference pattern. If when you shoot the electron at the screen you force it to interact with a photon before it hits the screen, then the electron behaves as a particle. His use of this logic explains that phenomenon.

And my question to you is, his ideas are so far outside of contemporary accepted physics. Is he kidding himself? Or is this going to stand the test of time, so to speak? Is he on good standing here, historically?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: He is. Okay. So he’s going to win a prize someday.

ELIAS: Perhaps.

RODNEY: Perhaps. (Laughs) I’ll try to do this from my own understanding, which I’m not too certain of. And that is Minkowski Space is a term used to refer to three-dimensional space plus time. He makes the statement that if you differentiate - use partial differentiation of Minkowski Space with respect to time - you are creating matter. In the terms of the physicists’ formulation of terms, that’s the operator which creates matter.

Elsewhere in the text he states that photon interaction with the field creates matter objectively, so that photon interaction and this partial differentiation are almost equivalent. The photon interacting with the field is a differentiation of Minkowski space. My question is, is this a valid interpretation of reality? He gives a lot of supporting experimentation.

ELIAS: To an extent, yes.

RODNEY: It is? Okay, okay. I guess I’m going to spend more time with Tom Bearden.

ELIAS: It is not complete but is moving in the correct direction.

RODNEY: All right. He discusses a lot of paranormal phenomena. It’s an incredible digest, and then he goes into the physics of it. But then he goes into the warring, the use of this information in a destructive fashion, which I sense he’s a little paranoid (Elias chuckles) and does not appreciate, perhaps... You’ve made the statement that humans project energy equivalent to an atomic bomb in every moment.

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: That would say to me that the warring applications of these ideas also do not appreciate that human beings are quite capable of protecting themselves from -

ELIAS: Quite so.

RODNEY: - significant attacks -

ELIAS: Quite so.

RODNEY: - of either psychic energy or electromagnetic fields, etc. Would you agree with that?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: Okay. So that end of it is not appreciated by him.

ELIAS: Correct, which will be an obstacle.

RODNEY: Huh?

ELIAS: Which will be an obstacle.

RODNEY: For those people who would want to use that kind of device.

ELIAS: Or him.

RODNEY: It is an obstacle for him that he doesn’t see beyond, correct?

ELIAS: Yes.

RODNEY: Okay. One last, different kind of question. You may have discussed this with other individuals, but it’s not in the published material.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: There is a technique called Emotional Freedom Technique that was created by Gary Craig in which he incorporates a tapping on the ends of meridian points, or lines in the body, and incorporates that with an induction, a mental induction technique, to help people get over personal obstacles within their own consciousness. For instance, he’s helped people with post-traumatic stress syndrome from engaging in war. He’s helped them to heal tremendous conflicts within themselves.

One of the ways it works is he uses the verbiage which goes something like this: “Even though I have a fear of heights, I deeply and completely accept myself.” And you say that repeatedly over and over again while you go through a sequence of tapping various points on the body. My question is, if I deeply and completely accept that I have a fear of heights, does that statement actually heal that fear? And what does the tapping do regarding holding energy?

ELIAS: First of all, what you stated was, “ALTHOUGH I have a fear of heights, I deeply and completely accept myself.” You did not say, “I deeply and completely accept the fear.”

Yes, it does accomplish. And the reason that it does accomplish is precisely very similar to what I have expressed many times with individuals.

What most individuals do with any issue or fear or distress is they either focus upon it strongly and perpetuate it in their dislike of it, and creating an importance in the dislike, or they attempt to ignore and push away, which creates the same action, for it creates the same energy.

In this, the individual that is expressing this method has created an understanding of the importance of LESSENING the importance of the negative and placing the importance upon the acknowledgement.

In this, just as I have expressed, when you incorporate a pain or an issue, a distress, if you can acknowledge its existence, you lessen the importance of it. You are not expressing, “I am in pain. I dislike this pain,” for the dislike is what becomes important, and that becomes what you concentrate upon. But if you can acknowledge the existence of the pain but move your attention in a different direction, the pain disappears.

In this, what he is expressing is acknowledge the fear. It is real.

RODNEY: And go beyond it.

ELIAS: But move your attention to what is more important, which is your acceptance of yourself. It does not deny the fear. It does not oppose the fear. It acknowledges that, but the importance shifts to a different direction.

Now; the purpose of the tapping is when you do this, this is not merely an affirmation - which, as you are aware, I have expressed many times that I am not entirely advocating of affirmations . This is actually creating a communication with the body consciousness. The body consciousness is directed by the subjective awareness; THAT creates its functions. But the objective awareness is very affecting of the body consciousness, and body consciousness incorporates memory, very strong memory.

Now; in that, when an individual experiences trauma, the body consciousness remembers, and it holds that energy. And the more the individual concentrates upon that experience, the more they reinforce the body memory, and that instructs the body consciousness to function differently.

Individuals that incorporate this experience of past trauma, they generate specific responses with their body consciousness, and that can be triggered in many, many, many different manners, very subtle manners. An individual may incorporate a smell, a color, a sound, a taste. It may be any number of triggers that are associated with the physical senses, and that triggers the body consciousness into reacting, and it creates specific reactions.

[To Paul] You and I have spoken of this also -

PAUL: Yeah, I recall that.

ELIAS: - with your daughter. In this, when you acknowledge the fear and express the acceptance of the self and the importance of the self, and you actually engage an action of tapping with the body consciousness, what that does is it sends a different communication to the body consciousness. You are communicating with the body consciousness to let go of that experience.

RODNEY: Fantastic.

ELIAS: You are communicating objectively, for you communicated objectively in the trauma. Now you are communicating again, objectively, to reverse the trauma, and the actual physical contact in an action with the body consciousness creates the reception of that instruction.

RODNEY: Elias, I thank you very much. I have to relinquish my time here.

JOHN: So, I’m glad I picked up this brochure on the way up, because I’ve written all over it. (Group chuckles)

Let’s start with question one. I’ve tried to order these kind of logically, but I don’t know whether they are, really. The first question I have is about a device. It’s called a neurophone. And it sort of transforms electrical energy, in a way. It’s got electrodes that are applied to the skin. There is a line in, in this device, for an audio device, and you sort of plug in a CD player or a tape recorder or something like that, and it converts the electrical signal from the CD or whatever it is into certain electrical impulses. And here’s where the hypothesis or theory begins: It transforms that into a signal that then pulses up the nerves and bypasses the ear directly to the brain, so supposedly when you plug yourself into this device you can hear a CD or whatever in your head and not through your ears, whatever that means.

I don’t think there have been actual studies about this device, but I think skeptics complain that what’s actually going on is bone conductions with vibrations given to the skin through the electrodes, vibrating and vibrating into the head, and so it seems like you’re actually hearing it in your head when that’s actually not happening.

Can you comment on what’s actually going on with this device? Is it in fact the case what this inventor would claim?

ELIAS: That it can be successful, and that it can actually accomplish that action?

JOHN: Right.

ELIAS: Yes. And it is not associated with bone.

JOHN: It is not associated with bone conduction?

ELIAS: No.

JOHN: I see.

ELIAS: It is associated with vibrational qualities. If the individual can convert the vibrational qualities and tones of what is being expressed upon the disk and transmit that accurately, yes, your nerves can absorb that and receive it and transmit, and you CAN bypass your sense of hearing.

JOHN: I see. So, it would take practice.

ELIAS: Yes.

JOHN: And another thing that I’m sort of deducing from what you’re saying is that the device itself -

ELIAS: The device itself facilitates the action, for it creates the connection. It creates the connection between the vibration, and connecting that vibration to the nervous system.

JOHN: I see, I see. So his claims that this device would actually be helpful for people who are deaf, for example…? (Elias nods) Yep.

I have one other question about that. People who have used it - and there is very little information on the internet in terms of users - but the few people who’ve used it claim that it works sometimes, but the fidelity is kind of weak; it sounds like a bad AM radio. Is that necessarily the case?

ELIAS: Yes, I would agree. There is considerable room for improvement.

JOHN: In fidelity. But there is room for improvement. It’s possible. It’s not -

ELIAS: Yes. Yes, it is merely a matter of honing the frequencies.

JOHN: I see. Any particular place on the body where it’s better to place the electrodes?

ELIAS: Not necessarily.

JOHN: Okay.

ELIAS: Your nervous system is contained within the entirety of your body consciousness. Therefore, it matters not.

JOHN: Okay. Maybe I’ll buy it! (Elias laughs) For $350, I wanted to check with Elias before…

ELIAS: I would suggest that you allow it to improve.

JOHN: Is that right? (Both laugh) Okay. Yeah. It’d be sending money off to a PO box, and who knows whether I’d even see anything from the other end.

You were talking to Rodney. You said the use of energy in destructive fashions, and I latched on to that. And then you were talking earlier, there’s a pressure now to find alternative energy sources in what’s basically an economic pressure. And I would also say, Is there another type of pressure going on that prevents us from finding even better energy sources because there is a potential for destruction? We’ve seen that conflict with nuclear power, but I think there’s definitely other sources where we’re prevented from going there because -

ELIAS: It is not necessarily prevention. But yes, there are hesitations. But it is a matter of shifting and being bold, and recognizing that as human beings there’s always a potential for destruction or for war, or for what you, within your beliefs, view as “bad uses” for different energy sources.

That is in your nature to explore those avenues also, and therefore that is always a potential. But it is also a matter of recognizing that you ARE shifting, whether you choose to be bold and move in directions that may be more interesting and more fun rather than holding to old angers.

JOHN: But in the near term, and like you were saying also, what we’re moving into is a matter of harnessing energy in ways that we already know about, and you also talked about - I think it was pretty recently - about our methods of transportation changing, and I sense that has to do with moving towards energy sources that we already know about but harnessing them for vehicles that we already do have.

ELIAS: Yes.

JOHN: Okay.

ELIAS: And also the creation of new vehicles.

JOHN: Ah! Okay. (Elias chuckles) That’s where you won’t give us that. That’s where you won’t make crystal ball predictions (Elias laughs), as much as I’d love to hear them.

So, two quick ones: There’s a concept of a so-called Tesla car. If you’ve talked about this in previous transcripts, then tell me. I don’t think you have. It’s sort of a supposedly - and I don’t know if it’s a myth or a story, or if it really happened - this fellow, and I think his nephew, it was a car on a Saturday afternoon. They had put it together for fun, I think, just as a hobby in his garage. He started it up. It made no noise. They drove all over the place. There was a little antenna, or aerial that might look like a radio antenna, that he claimed would be somehow picking up magnetism from the air. And they went for a drive, and that was the last anybody ever heard of that car. I think that story was made up.

ELIAS: I would express that it was not fabricated.

JOHN: It’s not fabricated.

ELIAS: I would also express that individuals have invented different harnessings of energy and different usages of energy in very creative manners, but I would also express that the collective was not ready to accept that.

JOHN: Nor are we now.

ELIAS: You are moving much closer, I would express. You are much more open to different directions, and creating new directions, than you have been. But I would express to you: in your physical time, in your linear time, this new openness and awareness has merely been expressed within this new millennium. It is very recent that you are actually collectively moving in a direction of being much more open to alternatives and to change, and THAT is what is creating the pressure.

JOHN: There is a small company based in Ireland. They took out an ad in a magazine called The Economist, and they said that they had come up with this way to have unlimited energy - I don’t know exactly how they phrased it - and they felt, “We know this is so unbelievable, that’s why we’re advertising in The Economist brazenly. And we’re going to set up a sort of experimental group comprised of scientists from all over the world who are going to test the ideas, and then we’ll only release the details after the tests are gone through,” and so on and so forth, and I think it stalled.

My feeling there is I don’t think it was a hoax; I think they had something there, and illogically, I think that the reason it doesn’t seem to be working is because other people are observing it, and it’s literally failing because other people are observing it who don’t maybe flow, or want to flow, that sort of -

ELIAS: It has not been successful for it is being observed by individuals that do not agree or do not believe it?

JOHN: Yes.

ELIAS: Partially. I would express that moreso it is associated with the individuals that are engaging it and their fear.

JOHN: How are we doing on time?

PAUL: You have about two minutes.

JOHN: Two minutes? Okay. Let’s see. Where do I want to go? Valerie and I were talking about it a couple of days ago, the idea of anthropogenic global warming. In other words, there’s global warming and climate change occurring, and most of it has to do with what mankind is doing in terms of emissions and in terms of drilling, and so on and so forth.

Valerie, who is a historian, was sort of arguing well, it’s maybe some tiny impact, but in terms of the delta of change that we’re observing now, the magnitude of that delta is no bigger than what it has been in other time frameworks when we don’t have the technology, we don’t have car emissions, when we don’t have offshore drilling or drilling anywhere, such as the Early Middle Ages, for example, where she would claim there’s just as much climate change happening then as there is now, or in - there is sort of just before the fall of the Roman Empire, I think, in certain portions of Northern Europe some other thing happened.

Would you say that there’s more of a delta going on now than there has been in previous time frameworks? Or not?

ELIAS: Yes.

JOHN: Yes. There is more?

ELIAS: Yes.

JOHN: I see.

ELIAS: Is this leading to the destruction of your planet? No. But it can be creating significant changes, which will be very impactful.

JOHN: What changes would you point to now that are a direct cause of this so-called anthropogenic effect?

ELIAS: I will offer you an example. Several individuals in this forum have been playing with future focuses. One of the obstacles with the future focuses is that the configuration of land mass in their time is very different from now. Therefore, even in that one statement you can imagine all of the implications that stem from a significant reconfiguration of land mass and alteration of climate, which affects MANY, MANY other branches.

JOHN: We’re talking about a timeframe of - I think I have a focus in California that I used to tap into what would be called California now, and I think that’s a hundred years from now - and I think that he’s under a similar sort of…the geography’s different.

So, there’s also the concept that we’re shifting, and as we shift, you know, we are creators of the world, and as we shift and as we expand then naturally our environments change, which would sound a bit more positive than the way you’re putting things.

ELIAS: It is not a negative or a positive. It is merely a factor to be aware of, for it is a factor that influences your choices now.

PAUL: Norm, you’re on!

NORM: Well, thank you. Elias, it’s nice to talk to you again.

ELIAS: And you also, my friend.

NORM: It’s been a while, but I think I have an interesting subject to look at here: psychoenergetics, physics and metaphysics or physics and psychoenergetic physics. And what I’m referring to is the work of William Tiller, Ph.D., who was the Chairman of the Department of Solid State Physics at Stanford University until he resigned to become just a professor and do his work in psychoenergetics.

So I commend him to a great deal, and he has written several books in regard to all of the things that he has done. And I wish to discuss the mapping of the concepts of the psychoenergetic physics to the Elias reality, so to speak, if you will.

William Tiller attempted to show that there are psychoenergetic responses, if you do the experiment correctly, to the objective world. And he did this using equipment measuring the pH of water, and in addition an IIED, which was the intention imprinted electronic device that he and a meditation guru - now, I don’t know if you would actually want to claim that to be, but he and his wife and two other individuals that he did not necessarily name would meditate over this intention imprinted electronic device and create an intention in these devices. He had control devices that were manufactured in the same way, and these devices were very simple. They were plugged into a wall with 110 volts and made with simple oscillators, just simple oscillators made out of conventional electronic equipment, or components.

He would have the intention imprinted in some of these as changing the pH by a full factor of 1, a pH change of 1, which would mean a 10-fold increase in the hydrogen ion concentration. And then he would also have another IIED imprinted that would change it by a negative 1 pH that would decrease the concentration of hydrogen ions by a factor of 10.

Now, what he would do is he also had unimprinted UEDs in addition to these two IIEDs. He made experiments with these, and indeed it would take, for example, up to sixty hours, but the imprinted devices would modify the pH of the water always up to a whole 1 unit change in the pH.

He also then had unusual changes in the surrounding experiment. He would put a magnetic magnet, a ceramic magnet, with the north field pointing into the water being changed. And then he would do another experiment with the magnet having the south end pointed into the experiment. And he could measure a difference using these IIEDs to detect what he feels to be the magnetized, or the monopole equivalent of the electron, in the U-2 space of what I would call reaching 2 or 3, and would effect the concentration of ions in objective space. He could also (inaudible) that he had experienced the interaction between the U-2 space with the intention imprinted electronic device.

And that is a factor, and can be a factor, in everything that is done on this earth. In other words, you can take this and apply it to many, many other experiments, as I have done - not yet, but would love to.

And so my question is: is the magneto dynamics of Region 2, is that a symmetry operational on the electrodynamics of Region 1, which would be the U-1 space? Would you care to comment on that part of the experiment?

ELIAS: Yes. I would agree.

NORM: You would agree?

ELIAS: Yes. For the Region 2 would be, or could be, likened to the magnetic element, and the Region 1 could be likened to the electric.

NORM: Okay. So in other words, the physics of U-2 space or Region 2 space, that physics is similar to the symmetry operation of the Maxwell equations having a magnetic monopole rather than the electron monopole that we experience in ordinary space?

ELIAS: Correct.

NORM: And tell me now, when you talked about Region 3, and you exist in Region 4, do those spaces also have the magneto dynamics of the U-2 space?

ELIAS: Yes and no.

NORM: Oh. So there are additional elements that can be brought into some of the Region 4, for example?

ELIAS: No. It could be -

NORM: Do you have the ability to control that as a focus in Region 4, like I have the ability to focus myself from Region 2 to Region 1?

ELIAS: Do I incorporate that ability? Yes. But you could apply SOME of what you are expressing in association with Region 3. But beyond that it would not apply, for there is no space.

NORM: Oh, correct. Okay. I understand. I term space as an awareness, only an awareness.

ELIAS: I am understanding, but beyond Regional Area 3 there is no space and there is no objective. Therefore, there is no perception, and there is no thing. There is merely action.

NORM: Ah, action. You’re from Region 4. You are energy in action?

ELIAS: Action.

NORM: Just action.

ELIAS: Yes.

NORM: And you would not term that as an energy?

ELIAS: It is not a thing.

NORM: Okay.

ELIAS: Energy would be considered a thing. And consciousness is no thing.

NORM: I see. Okay. All right. So it is pure consciousness?

ELIAS: Correct.

NORM: Okay. All right. Would you say that he has discovered the monopoles in objective reality, or Region 1?

ELIAS: To an extent. It is incomplete, but yes.

NORM: All right. Now, I have another kind of an overview. The other overview is the work of Bob Monroe and the Monroe Institute, and their ability to - from my viewpoint, I would think they’re mapping, and they are like Magellan in his travels in this world. Monroe is the Magellan of travelling into probably Region 2 and Region 3, but more or less Region 3, in his ability to look at the different what he calls focus areas of Region 3, which are, as you have termed, a transition area. And these transition areas have a lot of activity in them, and he has essentially himself, and others that he has trained, looked at that, especially Bruce Moen. Bob Monroe has passed on now, and he is currently in Region 3 talking with Bruce Moen, who can operate in both Region 1 and Region 3.

They, for example, are looking at different focuses. The greatest number focus is “Focus 35,” where – it’s kind of interesting – they are talking to energies that are from other parts of this universe and are here to watch the shift.

Now, I’m kind of curious: If this was true, why are they so interested in this shift? Is it because of the fact that this is such a challenge? And it seems to be kind of fun, as a traveler throughout this universe that these people are, to be able to come here where we are an attractive site, so to speak. Can you comment on that?

ELIAS: Yes. First of all, I will express to you in relation to this other individual, there are some elements of distortion. There are some elements of bleed-through of the individual’s beliefs that are expressed in their experiences and in their material. But beyond that, I also am not discounting the validity of the experiences. And in this, when I defined to all of you what this shift is encompassing, I expressed to you that this shift involves the entirety of your reality.

Now; in involving the entirety of your reality, that involves all that is within your physical universe. Therefore, it would be affecting of any other beings existing in your physical universe; in different capacities, of course, for they may be expressed differently than yourselves and may incorporate different expressions, different beliefs than yourselves. But this is not limited to merely your planet. It is an expression that is occurring within your reality, the entirety of it. And your reality includes a universe.

Therefore, I am not invalidating the experiences of these individuals, that they are tapping into other beings in your universe and recognizing an interest in some of them, observing what is occurring in other areas of this universe and how this shift is affecting other areas of this universe, but they are not merely observing for fun.

NORM: That means that they are concerned with their own safety?

ELIAS: No. Not at all. It is merely that there is an interest in how this shift is being expressed THROUGHOUT your universe, not merely with themselves. As I have expressed many times: all that you do, each of you, every moment of energy that you express, every choice you engage, every action you engage ripples. It ripples out from you, far beyond what you imagine.

Therefore, whether you can imagine or not, what you do in this area of your universe ripples to other areas of your universe also, and what THEY do ripples to you.

NORM: One of my concerns with the experiments that Tiller has is that they can be oscillatory in nature. He applies different, some would say substances – including crystals, by the way – and matter that starts oscillation in temperature and pH, which I find very unsettling. Also, my concern is are we playing with something that we do not know enough about and there is considerable danger?

ELIAS: No.

NORM: Did you say no?

ELIAS: Correct. No.

NORM: Good.

ELIAS: I would not concern yourself with danger, my friend. I would express an acknowledgement to you to continue being playful and incorporating your unending fascination. (Norm laughs)

And I am recognizing from the energy of the individuals present that we are at our close. Therefore, I would express to each of you great appreciation in this opportunity to be sharing and connecting with you each, once again, and tremendous encouragement to each of you in your endeavors and your new adventures.

GROUP: Thank you. Thank you, Elias. Thank you!

ELIAS: To all of you…

RODNEY: A personal thank-you from me from my cat.

ELIAS: And that is accepted! (Laughs heartily)

RITA: Elias, I’ll have to set up a time to talk to you individually again. I haven’t heard from you in a long time.

ELIAS: Very well. I shall leave this to Michael.

To you all, in dear friendship and in great lovingness as always, au revoir.

GROUP: Au revoir. Bye! Good night.

(Elias departs after 1 hour and 21 minutes)