Session 201704251

Session 201704251
“The Truthiness Session”
“The Definition of Lying”
“What Are YOUR Constructs That Generate That Assessment?”
“Will You Empower Yourselves?”

Tuesday, April 25, 2017 (Private)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Rodney (Zacharie)

"What you perceive as a lie disempowers you. Therefore, it is a matter of what you will do with that."

ELIAS: Good morning!

RODNEY: Good morning!

ELIAS: (Chuckles) And what shall we discuss this day?

RODNEY: It’s a good question. (Both laugh) I’ve been mulling it over in my head almost nonstop now for three days, and I feel like I’m no closer to giving you a good description of what I want to talk about (both laugh) than I was when I started.

ELIAS: Simplify.

RODNEY: Well, what happened is that there is something that… it’s kind of like a little curious thing in the back of my mind that didn’t quite add up, but it’s never gone away. Years ago I said to you, “What’s the significance of a question in the area of consciousness?” And I’m not exactly sure of everything that you went into there, but one of the reasons for that was…and good schools in salesmanship will teach you that one way to steer a conversation where you want it to go is to ask your client a question. Very powerful, and strangely enough very captivating. If you said to your client, “Do this”—in other words, gave him a statement that you wanted him to do something—they very well might ignore you.

ELIAS: Precisely.

RODNEY: If you ask them a question, they don’t ignore. The “ignorability,” if you will, (laughs) of a question is on a totally different level. They do respond to questions.

ELIAS: Correct.

RODNEY: Okay. So, what I’ve been thinking about is kind of…it’s in that realm of things, but it hasn’t to do with questions. And that is, what do we mean by lying, okay? Now, a truth is nothing more than a strongly held belief.

ELIAS: It depends on how you are defining truths.

RODNEY: Well, non-absolute. Not an absolute truth. That’s a totally different category.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: Earthbound truths. You’ve defined a truth as a strongly held belief.


RODNEY: Which (laughs)… what the hell do you mean by facts, you know? Like that.

ELIAS: Precisely.

RODNEY: Right. It’s like we’re swimming in a sea of relativity, right?


RODNEY: It’s amazing we can even have a consensus (Elias chuckles) about ANYTHING, right? And then, like agreements: we’re creating our own reality, so that someone might be creating an object in a room and another person in the room may not see that object at all.

ELIAS: That is correct.

RODNEY: So the two of them have to have an agreement as to that object being in the room. Either unwittingly or wittingly, there has to be an agreement.

Lying cuts through all of this, it seems to me. Acting—an actor on a stage in a movie, pretending.


RODNEY: Okay. In a sense, he’s lying. Right? He’s pretending to be Superman.


RODNEY: Or sick or crazy or whatever.

ELIAS: You could perceive it in that manner, yes.

RODNEY: He’s lying. A major element in this is, of course, intention: why are you doing it? Assuming that you know that you’re doing it, which is another aspect of this.

ELIAS: Which is a considerable aspect of it.

RODNEY: Absolutely. A person goes to school and memorizes a whole bunch of book stuff and comes out an expert in nutrition, and goes and starts giving lectures on what’s good for you and what’s bad for you. And a lot of what they say to their clients is pure garbage. I mean, it’s… Is it a lie? IS it a lie? And she would argue that it’s absolutely not a lie, because this is what she was taught, these people taught me the truth and so on and so on.

ELIAS: But even when an individual is expressing in a manner that is contrary to what you perceive the truth to be, and they know, they are aware objectively—is that a lie?

RODNEY: Say this again?

ELIAS: When an individual is expressing in some manner that is contrary to what you perceive to be the truth, or honest—

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: — and they are aware of—

RODNEY: That I perceive it that way?

ELIAS: Yes, and they are aware of what they are expressing. Let us say that an individual tells you a story of an experience that they had, and they are aware objectively themself that that experience in their own perception never happened.

RODNEY: Never happened?

ELIAS: Is that a lie? If I say to you I had an experience two days prior in which I was quite surprised because I was walking along a street, and another individual approached me and slapped me, right there on the street.

Now; I express that to you (Rodney chuckles), and I am objectively aware that that event did not happen.


ELIAS: Am I lying to you? I invented that story in this moment. Is that a lie?

RODNEY: I would think most people would say that IS a lie.

ELIAS: Most individuals would.

RODNEY: Right. So…

ELIAS: This is the tricky piece with this idea of lying, because in relation to the information that you have, that many individuals have, you could semi-easily move in directions of perceiving that many situations that could be viewed as lying might not be viewed as lying. Because of information that you have, you might be more inclined to express that the individual’s reality is different or their perception is different and therefore perhaps they aren’t lying.

But that is only theoretical. You don’t actually believe that. It is theoretical. Because when an individual is actually interacting with you, and they are expressing in a manner that you perceive to be not honest or not true, you are not affording them that possibility that their reality is different. You are defining the situation, and your assessment is that they are lying.

And what constitutes a lie? In your perception, a lie is—

RODNEY: Deliberate.

ELIAS: — anything contrary to the facts that are accepted.

RODNEY: Ah! That’s one way to look at it. Another way to look at is—


RODNEY: — does the person who’s doing the lying know and believe that it is not true?

ELIAS: And what if they do?

RODNEY: The person in the street who got slapped.

ELIAS: What if they do know?

RODNEY: That’s what I’m saying. If they know, the person in your story who said, “I was slapped by a stranger,” if she knows that it did not happen – KNOWS that it did not happen — and tells her friend that it happened, she’s lying. All right?

ELIAS: According to your perception, yes.

RODNEY: And then what you just described is maybe she’s in a frame of mind where it made sense in her frame of mind, that she did get slapped.

ELIAS: And you are doing precisely what most of you do: you are attempting to reason out why the individual would do that; that lying is unacceptable, and therefore you attempt to reason out why an individual does it, to excuse them.

RODNEY: Yes, that’s true, but that’s not where I was going with that. She thinks it happened.

ELIAS: What if she doesn’t think it happened?

RODNEY: No. She believes that it happened.

ELIAS: What if she doesn’t believe it happened?

RODNEY: Well, then she’s lying.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Precisely.

RODNEY: I mean, that’s the definition of lying.

ELIAS: That is what YOUR definition of lying is.

RODNEY: What’s another definition?

ELIAS: It is objectively aware and contrary to the actual facts.

RODNEY: That’s the definition?

ELIAS: But facts are not absolute (Rodney laughs), and what says that one particular fact is definitely true and the only manner in which you can perceive a particular subject? You agree on that, yes. You don’t agree specifically, such as with your example of an object in a room.


ELIAS: You are not necessarily specifically agreeing with another individual that that object exists in the room.

RODNEY: Okay. That’s true.

ELIAS: You are generating a type of agreement that is much broader than that. And in that, you, in a manner of speaking, agree in perception to generate similarities in your realities, and you agree to incorporate certain guidelines about your physical reality that you will adhere to. You aren’t as specific as “I agree with you that this chair exists in this room in this moment.”

RODNEY: That’s true. That’s true.

ELIAS: You are not generating those types of agreements.


ELIAS: But you do in general generate a type of agreement that you are participating in the same physical reality with the same blueprint and therefore the directing of your perception will be relatively similar. And therefore, you interact with each other in a capacity that allows you to perceive situations, manifestations, expressions in a very similar manner, which then you deem that to be facts and truth and real and what is. And what deviates from that is viewed as untrue.

Now, untrue can be excused and not categorized as lies with certain situations or circumstances. If you perceive another individual to be mentally impaired,—

RODNEY: Mm-hm. Right.

ELIAS: --then you don’t necessarily assess that their deviation in reality is a lie, because objectively you express, “They don’t know better,” or “They aren’t aware.”


ELIAS: Or if individuals are distracted, not paying attention, they may express in a manner that deviates from what is accepted as truth or honest, and you can excuse that also. They weren’t aware at the time, or they were distracted, or they weren’t paying attention—it wasn’t intentional.

Intentional is where you categorize that an individual is being false, untruthful or lying. when you perceive the other individual to not be mentally impaired, to not be distracted or confused, to be reasonably intelligent and reasonably aware. Even if they do not appear to you to be self-aware, you assess them to be reasonably aware of reality. And in that, when they deviate from what is accepted as being truth, then they are classified as lying, and you don’t express any excuse for that. They know that what they are expressing is different from what you consider to be the truth. They are aware of what they are expressing, and in that, they are intentionally expressing something different. And therefore, with that intention, that is the classification of lying.

RODNEY: Now let me (laughs)… let me tag something onto that, and that’s the concept of propaganda, actually creating fake—

ELIAS: Information.

RODNEY: They call it fake news today. Fake information for the purpose of pushing people in a particular direction.

ELIAS: For the purpose of manipulation.

RODNEY: Manipulation. And it gets to the point where – and you’ve said this—human beings are extremely suggestible.

ELIAS: You are correct.

RODNEY: So, if the information comes to you from the right way, if your perception is the information that comes from that source is truthful and accurate, then you believe that it is. So that if someone wants to convince you of something, all they have to do is go through that source. And we have another word for storytelling or news, and that is “spin"--"alternative facts"—which was so unbelievably ludicrous, I just burst out laughing when I saw it for the first time. (Elias chuckles) I could not believe my ears.

ELIAS: The point is not necessarily what you consider lying, but why. Why you consider it lying.

RODNEY: Expand on that a little.

ELIAS: You were moving in the direction, in your assessment about propaganda and a spin on news, that the purpose of that is to manipulate in a particular direction with a particular objective.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: You want to influence other individuals in a certain direction to believe what you are expressing, and therefore gain something from them, support or something else. But you want to gain something from them accepting that suggestion and you manipulating the situation in which they then agree with you.

Now; in this, when you enter in that factor of lying and your perception of lying, what is significant about this subject is WHY you define certain expressions as being lies, WHY you define them as not being true, or being dishonest or being devious.

RODNEY: Let me say to that, of course I love to watch the news, and the President has a spokesperson. And every day or every other day they have a meeting and he speaks to the correspondents, and they give him questions. Right? But some of the so-called news is pretty outlandish, and they will – the correspondents, the people supposed to supply the populace with the news – will ask for clarifications. And I find it fascinating to see the spin that—what do they call it? – that the individual is putting on facts, and I find myself automatically going to the place of “he actually believes that. He actually believes that. He can’t…”

ELIAS: Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don’t.

RODNEY: Well, this particular guy… I do not believe… You’re right.

ELIAS: You would be astounded at how well—

RODNEY: Somebody can lie? (Chuckles)

ELIAS: In your definition of lying, yes. And it does not require that they are an expert actor. It is a matter of motivation, what is important to them.

RODNEY: That was the point that was brought out in this documentary. They put a person in a CAT scan, they’re taking pictures of the brain. And they found out that if a person lied to benefit themselves…actually, this showed up on – it wasn’t a CAT scan, it was a lie detector test. In a lie detector test, if they lie, if the lie benefitted them personally, the lie detector equipment would easily see that. And that would register, “You just lied.” If they ask the person to lie for the benefit of a charity that they approved of, okay? The equipment, it did not register. It did not register at all. So, this is what you’re referring to.

ELIAS: It is a matter of motivation. An individual can be very aware that in their own perception that what they are expressing is not necessarily correct or true, but it matters not. They may express anyway, in what you would term to be a lie, and they will do it flawlessly and easily and very convincingly, as IF they believed it also, because of their motivation. They may not believe what they are expressing, but they may believe in something else enough to, in their perception, justify what they are expressing, whether they believe it or not.

Therefore, you might be astounded at how well an individual can express in that manner in what you think of as a lie in a flawless manner, and be aware of what they are doing and not necessarily believe it themselves.


ELIAS: But once again, what is important, or what is significant, is why you define certain behaviors and certain expressions to BE untruthful or a lie or dishonest.

RODNEY: Why do we? (Laughs)

ELIAS: This is, in actuality, a very important subject, because—

RODNEY: I know!

ELIAS: — you all, or most of you, most of you throughout your world place a tremendous value and importance on honesty and truthfulness.

RODNEY: People kill for it! It’s unbelievable.

ELIAS: You base your relationships on it, you base how you interact with individuals on it, you base what you align with and what you won’t align with on it. You place tremendous significance—

RODNEY: I know, I know. But the more I thought about this, the more (laughs) up to my neck in horseshit, and somebody threw a brick at me. (Both laugh) That’s how I felt. (Laughs) It’s so confusing.

ELIAS: Remember: what are constructs?

RODNEY: Ah! Reasons.

ELIAS: Reasons. Constructs are the “why.”


ELIAS: Therefore, that is what is significant: what is the “why” that influences you in relation to this subject that is so important and so valuable.

RODNEY: (Sighs) I see such… I think what brought it up for me now is this whole change in the political structure of this country.

ELIAS: Which is an excellent example.

RODNEY: Unbelievable! And it’s significant, because we have people who are completely untrained, inexperienced, handling some extremely delicate and important communications. We have an individual who – there’s a country, North Korea, which by our standards is crazy and dangerous, and we’ve got to have an understanding with them. So who do we send? We send an individual who has no experience whatsoever with communicating on that level in that way, to get a couple of points across. And we see this in everything that they’re doing. We have a Secretary of State who’s going to Russia to talk to the leader of that country about issues involving peace and war, when last year the same individual gave him a medal of friendship. How does he deliver the messages that he would want to deliver, to pull us away from getting into more serious conflict? Bringing us closer… how will I put this? Finding a harmonious way to work together.

All I see is confusion. That’s my perception. I see people who by my standards are acting irrationally for the benefit of everyone. By my standards they’re irrational. I can see that by THEIR standards they are rational, but they’re committing crimes against humanity in order to support their concept of what is rational. And that’s irrational to me. It’s irrational to me to kill people, to create homelessness, to create refugees—that’s an irrational act. But to many people that’s not irrational.

ELIAS: Obviously.

RODNEY: That’s a very rational thing to do. Well, even in my neighbors, so to speak. They think it’s rational to execute a person if he commits a certain crime. To me that’s irrational. So, this whole business of what is the truth, and what are you…? Basically, the only safe assumption that one can make about world news is that everybody is lying. (Elias chuckles) And the question of why are they doing it, what are their constructs…

ELIAS: What is your construct that SAYS that they are lying? Which, that is the point. What makes you believe that they are lying? What makes YOU generate that assessment, that other individuals are lying?

RODNEY: Okay. Let’s put it this way: The whole area of misogyny, that women are inferior intellectually and in many other areas, there is a significant percentage of our population who believe this is factually true. There are people who don’t believe it’s true but who feed into this. They encourage this idea, because it benefits them. We have a President now who’s been doing this. He’s been encouraging that a lot people are bad or a lot of people are inferior, or that Mexicans are all rapists or criminals. He does not truly believe that that’s the case, all right? But he says things like that to people who DO believe that it’s the case. So, that’s why I say I have to look or hear what someone is saying and assume that they are spinning it, and ask myself why are they saying what they’re saying. Which is like saying why are they lying the way they’re lying. Maybe the word “lie” is too harsh a word.

ELIAS: Not necessarily.

RODNEY: But it’s safer. I get more understanding, it seems to me, of what’s happening in my world if I look at politics, at least, in this vein—even people that I admire.

ELIAS: You are moving closer to addressing the question. Thus far you have been offering explanations as to what you deem to be lies, and explanations for what motivates other individuals for lying, but not addressing to the question, "What influences YOU to assess a lie? What is, in your perception, affecting YOU that motivates YOU to generate that assessment that something is being set forth as a lie? Why do you make that assessment? Why do you make that distinction and express that difference of a truth and a lie?" (Pause) "How does the truth affect you, and how does a lie affect you?"

RODNEY: I’m beginning to get to the point where maybe the place where I want to be is that there is no truth, there is no factual truth, that everybody is lying about everything. It’s more consistent.

ELIAS: Or, everyone is expressing their perception, and it is not necessarily truth OR a lie.

RODNEY: That’s true! Right! That’s correct. It IS their perception.

ELIAS: Therefore, the question remains, "Why do you generate that distinction? What motivates you to generate that distinction?" Even in your distinction of expressing that you are moving in the direction of assessing or believing that EVERYONE is lying, you are not expressing, “Everyone is telling the truth.” (Rodney laughs) You are expressing, “EVERYONE is lying. EVERYTHING is a lie.” Why? Why do you move in that direction? What is it that influences you to generate that assessment, that distinction?


ELIAS: How does the truth affect you? And how does a lie affect you?

RODNEY: Okay. What you’re asking me is, I could just as easily say, “Everyone is expressing the truth.”

ELIAS: You could. But you didn’t.

RODNEY: No, I didn’t. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Therefore, what is the construct that is—

RODNEY: In a sense, everyone IS expressing a truth,

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes. You could say it in either direction and be correct.

RODNEY: Okay. Very good! So, what we’re talking about really is not…

ELIAS: Not what other individuals are doing or what is true and what isn’t true, but what the base of it all is. What is the construct that affects you to generate that assessment and therefore be affected? And HOW does the truth affect you? And HOW does the lie affect you? Therefore, why avoid the lie and generate that assessment, that judgment about the lie? And why gravitate to the truth and generate the judgment about the truth? Why?

RODNEY: Well, to be honest with you, Elias (Elias chuckles), I’m getting to the point—hm, I’m not there yet—that there’s something beyond this. I don’t know what it is. I haven’t seen it yet. But I know, I know that I am, I’m aware of the fact that I’m saying, “This is a lie and this is not true,” and over here, “This is true,” and that’s it’s me that’s making that statement. I’m aware of the fact that I’m doing this.


RODNEY: This last election phase, I completely… I’ve disowned all Democratic, all political parties. I’m completely independent. I’m trying to find my way, because I see that what I thought was true is not serving me, any more than what I thought is a lie is DISserving me. I hate to say this, but a lot about what this loudmouth in the White House is saying and doing is actually beneficial. It’s sad that it’s something that we have to go through, it seems to me. Things need to change if we’re going to get to where we want to go.

ELIAS: And where is it that you want to go?

RODNEY: Well, if we’re going to evolve…

ELIAS: How do you want to evolve?

RODNEY: I don’t know how. I don’t know how we go from where we are…

ELIAS: And where ARE you? Where are you that you are dissatisfied with? What is it that needs to change?

RODNEY: We’re doing things to the planet, for one thing.

ELIAS: Then your leader presently expresses that you aren’t. Therefore, in that, what needs to change? What isn’t being successful? For what I would express to you is you have expressed that as much as you hate to admit it, in your words, that this leader may be beneficial, for he may be moving you in the direction of change. He definitely is influencing change, but not necessarily in directions that you agree with.

RODNEY: Well, let me put it this way: The old way wasn’t working.

ELIAS: And what was the old way? What wasn’t working?

RODNEY: The Democratic… the prior… He used the term elite, the Democratic being elite. The Democratic political party, the elitism of political thought.

ELIAS: And what is being expressed isn’t? (Chuckles)


ELIAS: The present party, the present administration, the present leaders--that ISN’T elite?

RODNEY: It turned out to be, absolutely.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Perfectly. This is the point. I would express to you that it matters not what your direction is, what your political opinion is, whether you agree or disagree. The point is that the statements are hollow, because you don’t actually define what it is that you are dissatisfied with. You express in generalities that the system isn’t working.

RODNEY: Okay. I’ll stop with the generalities. Something that interests me, so I think I have a slightly better handle on it, right? And I’ll stick to that.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: And that is the openness of our scientific endeavors to truly new ideas.

ELIAS: Very well.


ELIAS: Very well. And in your perception, that wasn’t working before?

RODNEY: STILL not working.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Correct. Therefore, what is the difference?

RODNEY: Well, you asked me where would I like to see us going.

ELIAS: No, I am asking you to define what is being expressed that you perceive is expressing some change that you express is necessary, that you need to change and that is a direction that you want to move in,—

RODNEY: Okay. Okay.

ELIAS: — but you haven’t been moving in. And now with this new direction, you are moving in the direction of change. But you aren’t.

RODNEY: All right. I agree with you. (Elias laughs) By that, I meant Mr. Trump is upsetting the apple cart.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

RODNEY: And that, upsetting the apple cart, I felt that this in some way had to be beneficial.

ELIAS: And I would agree with you.

RODNEY: All right? That’s what I meant.

ELIAS: Very well.

RODNEY: Not that he’s improving on things. He’s wrecking everything. Okay?

ELIAS: I do not incorporate an opinion about that, but I would express that yes, you are correct that he is upsetting the apple cart. And in that, it is not that he himself is moving in such dramatic, different directions than the political machine has moved in before—for he has become part of the political machine, and therefore he is moving in it—but he is expressing in manners that is creating a situation of reaction. He is presenting in a manner that is invoking reaction, in many different capacities. Therefore, if you are looking for a benefit—

RODNEY: You would call that provoking, wouldn’t you?

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking, yes.

RODNEY: Okay. All right.

ELIAS: And in that, if you are looking for a positive in the midst of what you perceive to be a negative, what that is doing is challenging all of you: What will you do?


ELIAS: And where is your power? And will you be complacent and be silent and continue to move in the direction of the herd? Or, will you empower yourselves and move in directions of what your individual guidelines are expressing, and value yourselves?

That has been what I have been expressing from the onset of this present year: What will you do? We shall see what you do. Thus far, most of you are doing not much of anything.

RODNEY: I vote. I sign my surveys. I donate. I’m not totally…

ELIAS: I am not expressing—

RODNEY: If I was younger, I’d be out there.

ELIAS: That is an excuse. I’m not expressing that you are completely immobile or not doing anything, but you are not doing much different than you have throughout a significant time framework. You voted before. You signed petitions before. You generated the same actions before. You are not significantly generating different directions now than you have, except that you are expressing much more dissatisfaction and you don’t like it.

RODNEY: Well, I personally accept much of what you just said as a description of myself, which is a very significant—

ELIAS: I am not discounting—

RODNEY: But this isn’t about justification.

ELIAS: Correct. And I am not discounting what you do, or what any individual does.

RODNEY: No. But this is why—

ELIAS: But you are experiencing – you and many, many, many, many, many other individuals – you are experiencing a considerable unrest and dissatisfaction. Which, that places you in a position of not being entirely comfortable or content.

RODNEY: Correct.

ELIAS: And that is the point. It is not a judgment that you are not doing enough or that you are wrong or anything in that direction. It is a recognition that you yourselves are dissatisfied. You are not happy. You are uncomfortable. And in that, a part of that uncomfortableness is also frustrated, because you think you don’t know what to do. Or you think you can’t do. You are one individual; this is an entire machine. And in that, the base of it is feeling disempowered. And you began with the subject of lying.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: And in that, my—

RODNEY: Am I lying to myself?

ELIAS: No. No. But what I would say to you is in that, throughout this conversation I have repeated the question about what influences you in the direction, what are YOUR constructs that generate that assessment about a lie or about the truth? How does the truth affect you or influence you? And how does a lie affect you and influence you? And therefore, WHY do you respond to them in the manner that you do? Because lies, or what you perceive as a lie—

RODNEY: Wrong. (Laughs)

ELIAS: It disempowers you.

RODNEY: Disempowers. Ah!

ELIAS: And that is what you are feeling now, is disempowered.

RODNEY: That’s my reaction, is that what you’re saying?


RODNEY: That’s my reaction.


RODNEY: Okay. I’ve been provoked.


RODNEY: Gotcha.

ELIAS: And therefore, it is a matter of what will you do with that. And it does not mean marching or protesting – although if that is what you choose to do, that is acceptable also. But it doesn’t mean in those extremes. That is not what I am expressing.

What I am expressing and addressing to is each of you, individually, what you are experiencing, what you are feeling, and that position of being disempowered, and seeing that.

This is an excellent subject to present, about what is a lie and why is it affecting, because there is a tremendous amount of that occurring in your present reality.

RODNEY: Almost all of it.

ELIAS: I would express that most of you in your reality—not merely in your country, although a lot in your country – but throughout your world, you are looking at each other, and that is what you see: lies, lies, lies. And what does that do? It disempowers. It disempowers. This is the reason that it generates you being angry, because it disempowers. This is the reason that you gravitate to what you perceive as truth or honesty, because that reinforces you. That agrees with you, in certain capacities.

In that, you perceive that when you are validated by truth or honesty, even if it is in capacities that might be uncomfortable, you appreciate the honesty; because then you perceive that other individuals are valuing you enough to BE honest with you, to be genuine with you, to be exposed with you. When you perceive that other individuals don’t trust you enough or don’t value you enough or don’t recognize your importance, then they lie to manipulate.


ELIAS: Because you are not important. That is how you translate in this direction and why you feel disempowered.

RODNEY: So the opposite—if that’s the right word—the opposite of the lying, we would call that truth?

ELIAS: Yes, YOU do.

RODNEY: Well, that which facilitates genuineness, that which facilitates self-worth or being connected?

ELIAS: It is not whether it is—

RODNEY: I’m just looking for a word.

ELIAS: I am understanding. It is not whether what is being expressed is true or untrue, truth or a lie. It is how it is affecting of you, that you perceive lies or untruthfulness—

RODNEY: Perceive it.

ELIAS: You perceive it to be ingenuine because it is devaluing of you.

RODNEY: Right.

ELIAS: It is expressing a blatant distrust of you, and that you are not important.

RODNEY: Correct.

ELIAS: Therefore, that is the reason that you generate this distinction of what is true and what is a lie.

RODNEY: Ah! That is the basis of it being a lie.

ELIAS: Yes. (Rodney laughs) Because of how it AFFECTS you.

RODNEY: This is almost the beginning of a conversation, and we just had the alarm go off.

ELIAS: Correct. (Laughs)

RODNEY: Because that takes us right back to the beginning.

ELIAS: Precisely. Which is—

RODNEY: What is factual and what isn’t.

ELIAS: Precisely. Which is the reason that I expressed that question: how does it affect you? What is YOUR construct? Not what is motivating the other individual to express what you consider to be a lie. That is the distraction. That is what you automatically do. You automatically look at the other individual and express, “Why are you expressing in that manner?” rather than “Why am I perceiving that as a lie?”

RODNEY: Because I am feeling devalued.


RODNEY: Okay. Thank you, sir.

ELIAS: You are very welcome. And I will express we may continue with this subject at another time.

RODNEY: I would like that very much.

ELIAS: I would also. (Both laugh) This is a considerable subject.


ELIAS: And I express to you an acknowledgment for presenting it.

RODNEY: Oh! I almost wanted to duck it. (Elias laughs) After tormenting myself with it for three days, I’m telling you, from morning ‘til night, it just got stickier…

ELIAS: It is a considerable subject, and it is very affecting in very many directions.

RODNEY: Just amazing.

ELIAS: I would agree. (Chuckles) Very well, my friend. I express tremendous encouragement and supportiveness to you, and great lovingness, as always. In dear friendship, au revoir.

RODNEY: Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 10 minutes)