Session 201602101

”The Next Step”
“Trust Is Another Word For What You Believe”

February 10, 2016 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Vivienne (Eliza)

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

VIVIENNE: Good afternoon.

ELIAS: (Laughs) And how are you proceeding now?


ELIAS: Excellent. (Vivienne laughs) And how are you accomplishing that?

VIVIENNE: Well (sighs), I have been looking at my fears. I read the digest yesterday on fear and the idea about projections. And I’ve been putting a lot of thought into these things, and obviously things have been cropping up. And so I’ll read you my blurb. It probably expresses it better than I can think off the top of my head. (Laughs)

So what I wanted to say is that today’s topics are fear and trust. And I’d like you to help me with those, please.

ELIAS: Very well.

VIVIENNE: Okay. So it’s often felt to me that the division between the world that we live in and that of spirit, or I think what you refer to as remembrance, seems to be so great as to be two separate worlds, with the gap between the two being unbridgeable. And I feel that particularly with the world of business or finance, but also the world of mass culture, which in my view dumbs people down, these things become fearful, because - like we talked about last time - I don’t understand them. But they’re very affecting. And I also wonder if that lack of understanding has something to do with being intermediate.

Another fear is that if I need to examine some issue - and that’s what kept me kind of awake last night - that the only way that it can be done is by creating some unpleasant circumstance, such as the present situation or equally unpleasant physical symptoms or ailments. And the cat reminded me this morning that I do have a fear of illness, because I project to the most extreme consequences, though I believe that I successfully avoided doing that this morning. Would you agree with that?

ELIAS: I would.

VIVIENNE: Thank you. (Laughs) So I’m wondering how far I have to go with these monsters of fear. Do I have to eradicate them entirely? And also what I want to know is how do I develop that trust in myself that I am assuming here will help me to conquer, if not banish, these fears, and allow me to live my life in much greater ease and comfort, if not ease and comfort full stop? Please. (Sighs)

ELIAS: Now; first of all, express to myself what your idea is of conquering this fear and what you imagine your life to be [if you are] not expressing that any longer, and if you are being self-directing.


ELIAS: What is your idea of the appearance of that?

VIVIENNE: I would like to think that I would feel strong in myself and not sort of weak and victimized as I have done, and that I wouldn’t have to engage maybe such extreme situations in order to sort of bring them to my attention; that I would be basically more aware and living my life with less, if not none, of the constraints that I’ve felt that I have lived with for so long, and feeling powerless, helpless, limited, not really able to express myself, be myself, do what I want to do, say what I want to say, although I’ve been able to express myself more with Michael. I did this morning and I’m pleased with that, because obviously I’m allowing myself to say what I want to say and not be inhibited and not feel I can’t speak about this topic because if I do we’re going to have a fight, that I can express it regardless of whether he’s in agreement or not, but that I can get it off my chest and say what I want to say. So that in itself was really amazing, but -

ELIAS: And very significant, I would add.

VIVIENNE: (Laughs) Okay. So more of that, and less of the being always sort of - I know I feel I pay too much attention to outside sources. I feel I am too much influenced. I look at what’s going on in the world and I let it affect me. I do feel I do that, and I’ve become aware of that lately and that I feel that I need to do less of that. But I know why I did it, I believe, because I thought I was protecting myself. If I know what’s happening out there, then I can protect myself from it, but that’s not how it’s worked.

ELIAS: And that also in itself is a huge leap.


ELIAS: Very much so. Tremendously significant that you can even recognize that, that you can see that. That is literally half the battle.


ELIAS: For that is a tremendous piece in these expressions and these issues, is not actually expressing the ability to even see what you are doing and how it is influencing. That is enormous. Therefore, genuinely credit yourself with that, for I express tremendous credit to you that you see -

VIVIENNE: (Emotionally) Thank you.

ELIAS: - that you are aware of that. In that, being aware of it is a tremendous leap in the direction of being able to generate choices. And let me express to you: because you see that and because you are aware now, at this moment, of what is influencing you, what you want, in a clearer capacity, in relation to expressing yourself. That is the reason that I asked the question, to evaluate what your perception is of what your goal, so to speak, is in this direction, and that was the correct answer. Because of that, now I can express to you another piece.


ELIAS: Now; this is a significant piece, very significant for everyone, and it is very significant for you. But I would not express it to you if you had not identified that piece and generated that leap, about recognizing that these outside sources are affecting you and knowing that you don’t want it to, but also recognizing that the reason that you respond and react in the manner that you do is out of self-protection. Which doesn’t work. THAT is the piece.

For if you were continuing to perceive and think that it does work, then it would be pointless to offer you this next step. But the factor that you can see that regardless of how much you have done that throughout your life - that you are actually recognizing that that doesn’t work - is enormous.

Now; that is not to say that the recognition of that will automatically stop that protective reaction. No; it won’t, but you will be much more aware of it. And that brings us to this next step.

Now; in this, let me remind you once again as a foundation: you in every moment of your existence are projecting energy. Now these are not merely words any longer. You project energy and then EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING, in your reality reflects to you. You are always projecting energy and you are always reflecting.

But reflections are not mirrors.

Now; the next piece is that there is some facet, some component, in EVERY reflection that you want.

Now; let me be clear in this. It is not about lack. It is not an idea that there is something that you want to stop, or something that you want to be different, or that you are recognizing what you don’t want, and therefore that gives you information about what you do want. No. None of those.

What I am expressing to you is that in EVERY SINGLE REFLECTION that you present to yourself - which is every moment (chuckles) - there is some component, some factor in it that you want.

Now; let us hear some examples, to emphasize it. And let me express to you that this is not to say that you want the reflection, or that you like it, or that you agree with it, or that it is comfortable. No. Even in reflections that you dislike, or that are fearful, or that you disagree with or that you are apprehensive about, or that you are uncomfortable with - it matters not. EVERY SINGLE REFLECTION has some type of component in it that is what you want.

Let us use a very simple example to begin with, one that you have presented many times pastly, that pastly your partner would be engaging your mother-in-law or phoning her and interacting with her, and in that, the mere action of him doing that was irritating and frustrating to you. And in that, if you interacted with him in relation to that, you would be dissatisfied with how he was interacting with you about being interactive with his mother, for he was not doing what you wanted him to do.

Now; THAT is not the point at all. And I am using this simple example as an example of some interaction or some subject that you don’t like, don’t agree with, that in some capacity generates you being uncomfortable.

Now; in that, what is he doing that you want?

VIVIENNE: Well, I was listening to that other audio, just earlier today, where you were talking with someone else about this, and - I mean I thought about it, and I suppose he is just allowing himself to express himself regardless of how - he’s just doing what he wants to do, regardless of - that he just expresses what he wants to express and that you don’t have take other people’s - you don’t have to be concerning yourself with and putting other people first, etc., like I always did.

ELIAS: Now; what I would express is no, not entirely. For I would express that in many time frameworks he is interacting with his mother in obligation, not that that is not his choice, but that he does it because that is what he is to do as a son, and that this is motivated partly by obligation. Therefore, no, that is not the piece of the question. That is a good intellectualization of it. (Both laugh)

VIVIENNE: Okay. (Pause) I don’t know right now.

ELIAS: Very well. What the reflection is that contains what you want - what he is doing - is regardless of his reason for interacting with her, regardless of how the interaction is proceeding, he is not investing in it, and therefore, he is not allowing it to bother him.

VIVIENNE: Okay. I wouldn’t have thought of that.

ELIAS: That is the piece that he is actually DOING that you want.


ELIAS: That is an example of what I am expressing, that whatever it is - whatever the reflection - there is something in that reflection that is doing or being what you want. And if you can find that component, it is very valuable.

Now; thus far, I have been speaking of this with several individuals, for this is the next step. But for the most part, most individuals at this point are not quite understanding, for they are not yet seeing why this is such a valuable step, or how tremendously it influences and changes the situation.

In your expression of recognizing that outside situations or outside sources influence you in a reaction to be self-protective, and using the outside source and subject matter of the financial market, now this is not a situation of interacting with an individual person.


ELIAS: You are engaging a subject matter, an outside source that is more general. Therefore, it is a situational outside source than a person outside source.

Now; in this, you recognize that you pay attention and you seek out this information with the idea that the more information you have, the more you will be prepared, and the more you can protect yourself.

VIVIENNE: (Laughs) That was the theory.

ELIAS: And also recognize that that is not necessarily true and that it is not actually successful, and that what it actually does is it actually triggers and reinforces fear, and that triggers feeling helpless.


ELIAS: And that triggers a feeling that you are being victimized, for you are helpless to do anything against what is occurring with that outside source. Therefore, there are dominos falling, in relation to one subject.

In this, as those dominos fall you are perceiving in a more and more and more personal capacity. It begins with the outside source that is a general state and expression, and as you continue to give yourself more information and you engage it more and more, you move more and more in the direction of personalizing it, which is what influences those triggers of fear and helplessness and being victimized.

Now; if you begin at the beginning, and you look at a subject matter that you are paying attention to this outside source, and if you genuinely can recognize that this a subject that is not comfortable for you, you don’t like it, you don’t agree with it, it is somewhat threatening, but it also is a reflection.

And if you can look at that reflection and be deciphering it - not in the capacity of automatically expressing, “What am I doing wrong?”, for that is the automatic reaction, which merely reinforces all of the rest of those dominos. But rather, if you can look at the reflection, know that it is a reflection, and then decipher what component in this reflection, this situation that I don’t agree with, I don’t like it, but even in that, there is some component that I want. What is that outside source expressing that I want? What is it doing that I want?

VIVIENNE: Well, I would say, if you’re asking me, I would say freedom of expression and to be important and valuable.

ELIAS: Very well. I am understanding that. But in that, when you are looking at the financial markets and in your perception it is falling, and what you are seeing – therefore, this is YOUR reflection – what you are seeing is business downsizing and money being moved in directions that are your perception of ‘tight,’ and it is affecting the market, and there are less jobs, and there are less opportunities, and it is not free flowing.

Now; this is your perception of what you are seeing, and that is what is triggering the fear and that is what you are reacting to in attempting to protect yourself, being realistic, looking at the outside source in a realistic manner: “I don’t like this. And this is what it is showing me. That is what I am paying attention to. Therefore, this is my reflection.”

Now; in all of that as a reflection, now what do you express that you could find that is a component of what YOU want?

VIVIENNE: (Pause) Well, would it be like the previous example? Would it be similar to that, and sort of not concerning myself with…just not being bothered with it, not having to concern myself with it at all, not needing to be… that it be important. That I’m not really interested. I don’t know. Something like that.

ELIAS: And in that, is that what your reflection is? Is that your perception in your reflection? Are you perceiving that the financial market is not concerned? (Pause) If they are downsizing, are you perceiving that they are -

VIVIENNE: No. No. No, I’m perceiving that they’re scared and they’re being - I don’t know. They’re thinking about themselves, prioritizing money and concerning themselves with themselves.

ELIAS: And cutting back.


ELIAS: Now; in that, this is the key, looking at the reflection realistically from the perspective of what you actually see, for that is YOUR perception, and that is YOUR reflection. Another individual may view the same situation and incorporate an ENTIRELY different perception, and therefore their reflection will be entirely different. But this is YOUR reflection.

Therefore, in that, what is – you ALMOST expressed it! – what is that outside source DOING that you want? (Pause)

Listen: they are streamlining. They are focusing, and the piece that is the most significant piece - that you almost expressed it -is they are placing themselves first.

VIVIENNE: First. Yeah. I definitely want to do that.

ELIAS: They are moving in a direction of turning their attention to them first. You are correct: they are not concerned with other outside sources. They are pulling back; they are focusing their attention on themself first.

Now; what I will express to you is that reflection IS very much in alignment with what you are doing in the protection piece, for they are doing that, too. But that is not the piece that you want.

In this, it is a matter of seeing in a realistic manner, especially in the moment: What am I seeing right now? What is my perception in this moment? I don’t like it. I am uncomfortable. I feel in this moment that automatic reaction of protecting myself. But what is the other source DOING that I actually want? What is that source doing that I want to do?

The reason this is so tremendously valuable is not only that it gives you other choices, but if you can define what you WANT and what you WANT TO DO. It moves your attention away from those reactions, and it gives you a subject to focus on in a direction that empowers you, for you are focused on what you want, not what you don’t want. Which is tremendous, for the automatic reaction is focusing on what you don’t want, and therefore, being motivated to move in directions such as protection - for you are motivated reactively, rather than recognizing choices.

Let me also express to you, I am aware that you incorporate a perception of yourself that perhaps you express this more than other individuals. And let me say to you, you do not necessarily. You merely do it in manners that seem more obvious. But in relation to what is threatening to anyone, they do the same action. That is the first direction that individuals move in whenever they perceive a threat. And in most expressions that they don’t like or that they don’t want, there is a perceived threat.

And the first expression that is usually engaged is reaction. When individuals react, they are not considering their choices. You cannot see what your choices are or even hear or listen to or be presented with choices while you are reacting (inaudible).

Therefore, the reaction is an automatic expression that is motivated by discomfort, and it is automatically retreating into some factor of safety. This is what creates what your psychology expresses as fight, flight or freeze, because those reactions are all motivated by retreating into some semblance of safety. Whatever is being engaged is not safe, and therefore the first reaction is to seek what is safe.

But you don’t know what is safe. Therefore, what you do is you move in directions of either tuning out outside information or seeking more of it, both of which are attempts at control, for the more control you perceive you have, the safer you will be. And all of it is motivated by self-protection. That is the reason that I was so tremendously acknowledging of you that you recognized that piece. It is enormous.

Other individuals do it also. They merely may not be as obvious about it.

In this, what I would express to you is if you can find that component of the reflection of what you want, it influences you to use your thinking in [a manner?] that is a benefit and that is effective, rather than using your thinking to move in directions of being less empowered, being more fearful, and personalizing. For the more you personalize, the more it reinforces the threat and the more you move in reactive directions, which limits more and more and more your choices. You cannot see them.

Therefore, all you see is the reactive aspect, which motivates you to move more into the self-protection.

VIVIENNE: Can you help me? How…? Like when you asked me the questions, I thought I knew the answers, but I clearly wasn’t fully understanding it. How am I going to know, when I’m looking at the reflection and trying to analyze it? How will I know I haven’t got the wrong end of the stick again? And I mean… How…? Is there a way I can kind of point myself in the right direction? Like I see it when you told me, but I didn’t really see it - I didn’t see it prior.

ELIAS: First of all, it is a matter of simplifying. Not moving in the automatic direction of what you think is the right answer, and not moving in the direction automatically of what information you have. Meaning, the answers that you expressed were firmly rooted in all of this information that I have offered to you. Therefore, what you were doing was regurgitating that information. You were not actually looking at the actual scenario, what you genuinely feel in those moments, what you genuinely are thinking in those moments. And in those moments, you are not attempting to decipher or analyze what the other outside source’s motivation is or what is influencing them. No. You are merely looking at the situation. You are generating an immediate evaluation: This is frightening; I don’t like it. This is uncomfortable. This is scary.

And in that, from that you are not analyzing anything about the outside source. You are immediately identifying how you perceive it affects you. And then you begin to move in more and more of the direction of personalizing how it affects you, because that is your method to analyze how you can best protect yourself.


ELIAS: In this, what I am saying to you is look at what you are reacting to. Not that you won’t react initially. Eventually, you won’t react. But initially you will. And in that, look at what you are reacting to. And look at it as a reflection.

What is that outside source doing? Not attempting to analyze it, merely expressing the simple question: What is that doing? The market is falling. That is simple: very well, the market is falling. What are they doing in relation to the market is falling? They are generating cutbacks. They are generating layoffs. And there are fewer jobs. You are not analyzing why they are doing it. You are merely identifying what are they doing.

Then you ask, in all of that that you don’t like and that is frightening to you, what is it in what they are doing, what are they doing that I want to do? That is how you discern the answer. Such as when you are asking yourself that question “What are they doing?,” they are pulling back. Okay. What does pulling back mean? Pulling to themself. Prioritizing. How are they prioritizing? They are making themselves the first priority. They are focusing and moving in the direction of, yes, self-protection - similar to yourself - but in that, what are they doing? They are streamlining. They are moving to the core. Pulled to the core. What is your core? You.

Therefore, what are they doing that you want to do? They are making themself the priority. That is what I want to do. I want to make myself the priority. Not them. They are the priority in this moment, for they have all of my attention. They are triggering me and I am reacting. What I want is what they are doing. I want to be the priority, the most important.


ELIAS: What is my partner doing in this moment that is frustrating me? I am expressing my feelings to him and he is sitting in the chair, supposedly listening to me, but I am uncomfortable and I don’t like it, and why don’t I like it? He is not reacting. What is he doing that I want to do?

And generally speaking, that core, that piece of what that outside source is doing that you want to be doing or you want to be expressing or you want to have, whatever it is they are doing that you want, is generally the core of what is bothersome to you about what they are doing, because you want to do it and you are not.

That is the tricky piece, for feelings are involved. And when you are looking at that outside source and what is uncomfortable to you and what is bothersome to you, it generally will be the factor that you actually want.

And what becomes tricky in that is stopping the reaction and shifting out of the reactive expression and into expressing that component that you want.

Such as, you are engaging a conversation with your partner and you are expressing your feelings, and your partner is listening and nodding at you (Vivienne chuckles) and not necessarily expressing much more than a nod in relation to what you are sharing. And you are thinking and feeling, “Say something! Do something! Be responsive to me! Acknowledge me!” And what they are doing, what he is doing, that you WANT to be doing, is he is not being reactive to your feelings. Which you also want to do - to not be reactive to your own feelings.


ELIAS: And therefore, not allow them to dictate your behavior.


ELIAS: Acknowledge them, recognize their importance, yes. Express them, yes. But not be reactive to them, and not allow them to dictate your behavior, which is very automatic.

That is what I am expressing is the tricky aspect, for feelings are involved. And when you are feeling, it is difficult to move your attention away from those feelings and to express beyond them, without ignoring them, but not being reactive to them.

And the reason that it is difficult is that it is very familiar. You incorporate a lifetime of reactions, and reactiveness is very connected to control. And you have a lifetime of being reinforced in the direction of control and that control is good.

VIVIENNE: Can we talk a little bit about trust?

ELIAS: Definitely.


ELIAS: Now; in that, what confuses you about trust?

VIVIENNE: Well, I think I don’t know how to trust myself. I have a history - that’s where my mind goes. Obviously, the only thing I know is control, or lack thereof, and so I don’t really know what that means, to trust myself. I mean, I believe I need to do it. But I -

ELIAS: Let us change the words, and you will begin to see that you trust more than you think you do. Let us change the words. Let us not incorporate the word ‘trust’ for a time framework. And from now on, let us use the word believe. What do you believe?

In that, you can give yourself many, many, many examples of what you trust. Whether it is what you want to trust or not, it remains that there are many examples of what you do trust, because trust is another word for what you believe.

VIVIENNE: But I don’t want it to be the negative anymore, because that’s the problem. I did very much believe all sorts of negative things about myself.

ELIAS: I am understanding. And how you change that, you can do that easier with the word ‘believe.’ For if you are thinking about what you believe, you can give yourself different information to change what you believe. You do not know what to do with the word ‘trust.’ How do I change what I trust? You do not know what method to engage to do that. But you do know how to do it in relation to what you believe, that you know that if you give yourself different information, what you believe will change.

VIVIENNE: Right. Right.

ELIAS: If you are looking at the financial market in one moment and everything seems to be crashing, you BELIEVE that it is bad and that there will be tremendous repercussions. And in the next moment, you give yourself different information, and the market is moving upward, and you BELIEVE that it is recuperating.


ELIAS: It is regaining itself. Therefore, when you change information, you change what you believe.


ELIAS: Therefore, it can be much easier for you to move in a direction of what you want rather than what you don’t want by remembering that it is all about what you believe, and that you can change what you believe very easily by giving yourself different information.

VIVIENNE: Okay. Well, unfortunately I heard the bell go off. But I did want to ask you, first of all may I please have a birthday treat from you on Friday? (Emotional)

ELIAS: (Laughs)

VIVIENNE: Please? Something nice?

ELIAS: I shall offer my energy to you in a blast (Both laugh)

VIVIENNE: Oh dear. I don’t know, do I have a second to ask you another? Quickly, quickly, if you could recommend something I could do or take or apply for my swollen fingers, dry skin or poor circulation? I would really appreciate it.

ELIAS: For your skin. Honeysuckle.


ELIAS: It can be in the form of an oil or a lotion, but with an essence of honeysuckle.

VIVIENNE: Okay. That sounds fun. Thank you.

ELIAS: (Laughs) You are very welcome.

VIVIENNE: Okay. Anything for the swollen fingers that hurt?

ELIAS: What I would suggest is that you incorporate some time each day relaxing, elevate your feet; and in that, while you are elevating your feet place your hands in a position that are approximately in the same area of your heart. Therefore relax, elevate your feet and place your hands in a position over your heart and relax for a time framework. That can be very helpful. This is a matter of the circulation; and in that, there is a tremendous pressure that is pulling to extremities. I would express to you by elevating your feet, you allow for a free flow in a much easier manner and without obstruction of the circulatory system, which will be helpful to your fingers.

VIVIENNE: Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

VIVIENNE: Thank you.

ELIAS: I shall be anticipating our next meeting.

VIVIENE: Thank you. Me too.

ELIAS: I express to you again, sincerely, congratulations and tremendous acknowledgement in what you have accomplished recently. Well done!

VIVIENNE: Thank you very much. Thank you.

ELIAS: In wondrous lovingness to you my dear friend, as always, au revoir.

VIVIENNE: Bye bye.

(Elias departs after 1 hour and 3 minutes)