Session 201912161

Staring Into the Face of a Lion: Trigger, Memory, Association

Session 20191216
Using Intuition: More Lessons From Jason's Cat
Noticing Resistance in Body And Breath
Judgment is Pointless, and Trying is Useless
Staring Into the Face of a Lion: Trigger, Memory, Association
Our Changing Relationship with Elias

Monday, December 16, 2019 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jason (Spensar)

ELIAS: Good morning!

JASON: Hi, Elias!

ELIAS: And how are you proceeding?

JASON: Very well.

ELIAS: Excellent. And what shall we discuss?

JASON: Okay. A few things. I just wanted to discuss a recent example which showed me that I still have an intuition that works (both laugh), and it connected with... If you recall, we talked about the coyote cub and getting that intuition to go out to the front yard at that specific time.


JASON: This example was another one involving my animals here, with my cat. My cat had escaped the house one night when I was letting the dog in, and we were unable to get her back in the house. Every time we went near her, in fact my wife got very close to grabbing her, she would back away and run off into the woods. And then unfortunately the temperature is getting to where it could be dangerous for her, it's below freezing at night, so she was out one night and we just couldn't get her back. And the second day we were looking for her, and eventually we did see her, and she again got close to my wife but then took off back in the woods.

And so, it was in the evening of the second day, and I was just sitting quietly, not necessarily thinking about this but aware of this, and I got the impression to go to a specific spot in my neighbor's driveway—not driveway, on their walkway by the side of their house. And what was interesting was, the communication was very specific, right? It wasn't just go out and look over in this area or wander up and down the street. It was go to this spot, which, I remembered that when I had the intuition to go out to the front yard, the image that popped up in my head was, "Let's go take care of these specific large weeds that were growing." In other words, it was more specific than a general... If it was being motivated by a worry or something it would be more general, the impulse.

ELIAS: Yes, yes.

JASON: And so I went to that spot and I called the cat, and sure enough she was not far away. And what was interesting, when I got to that spot he [the neighbor] had a light that turned on by motion sensor, and so that made it easy for the cat to see who I was, rather than wandering in the dark woods with a flashlight, which probably just scared her.

ELIAS: Precisely.

JASON: And so I was laughing and thinking about, "Okay, there she is. She's about 10 feet away." Every time I took a step towards her she would back up and start to run away. And so I said, "Okay, intuition, okay, what should I do now?" And the image I got back was, "Sit down." So I sat on the ground and sure enough, in two or three minutes she came over and jumped in my lap.

ELIAS: I would say, congratulations. That is excellent!

JASON: Thank you. Thank you. This is, it's very basic stuff, very mundane examples, but...

ELIAS: Very much paying attention and listening to your intuition and following it and trusting that. And also, interesting that you are using your cat recently for so much of your practice [inaudible].

JASON: She's turning into my spiritual teacher here. (Both laugh)

ELIAS: I would say this is the second time that you have lost her.

JASON: That is correct. And both of those instances led to material to discuss and work with.

ELIAS: Precisely! I would say that with your relationship with this creature, [it] is actually being quite helpful to you recently.

JASON: Yeah.

And so I wanted to validate another impression, because then my question was, like, "Well, why am I not getting answers like this in other areas of my life, or other goals?" And so the answer that I got was, it's because I don't have a specific direction that I know that I want to move in related to the job issue, right? It's more that my understanding of what I'm doing is, I want to learn to sort of completely erase or eliminate the projection that there is any problem in my reality, and then I want to see how my reality moves with that.

ELIAS: I would say that that is excellent, and a tremendous goal. In that, I would say, my friend, that essentially that is the point of shifting.


ELIAS: That is BEING shifted.

JASON: And that is enough, right? Eliminating the problem.


JASON: Because you're the one projecting it. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Precisely. That would be moving in the direction of creating your reality intentionally and you being the director, and in the genuine sense of those two expressions. Most individuals think about those two statements, or those two actions—being the director of your life, and choosing intentionally or being intentional in your life—most people think about that in terms of always actively doing, and that isn't actually always the point. It isn't necessarily about actively doing in the capacity that you think of…

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: ... but actively doing in the capacity of what you have expressed, allowing your reality to unfold. Yes, you are directing it, but you are also being aware of what you are inserting into it or NOT INSERTING, and therefore in not inserting, allowing yourself to genuinely watch it unfold.

JASON: And I believe I'm making good progress with that direction.

ELIAS: I definitely agree. Very much so.

JASON: Cool. (Laughs)

I was talking to Mary that one of the directions that I'm kind of moving in also is, as far as I think about my energy or my approach to my energy is, is moving towards a more subtle direction than maybe it has in the past.

ELIAS: How so?

JASON: In other words, one of the things that we discussed was just the idea that noticing when I'm starting to resist what's occurring, physically.

ELIAS: Ah! That is significant.

JASON: And, if I am honest about it, I tense my body almost all the time, parts of my body, and unless I'm actually lifting something, it is some form of resistance or a reflection of that resistance.

ELIAS: Most definitely! And I would be tremendously acknowledging of you that you noticed that. I have been expressing this to individuals for quite some time. Actually, I would say, from the onset of this forum, and individuals still to this present time framework don't necessarily recognize how they are engaging physically with their body continuously: how much they are incorporating tension in relation to their body, how much they aren't relaxing. This is also the reason that I have expressed to almost all of the individuals that I speak to, at one point or another, expressing to them to breathe.


ELIAS: Because you aren't paying attention to the body consciousness and how much tension each individual is expressing, and how much they affect their breathing. You may not be entirely, in your terminology and assessment, 100% holding your breath, but you also aren't breathing normally and naturally. When you are tense, when you are creating any affectingness, ANY affectingness with your body consciousness, you breathe more shallowly.

JASON: And that's the feedback, right, that you're moving into that resistance.

ELIAS: Yes! And this is much more far reaching than most individuals realize, because I would say that it is a matter of ANYTHING that your body consciousness is creating at any moment that isn't a natural state creates a factor of tension with the body consciousness automatically. That is a natural response, and whenever that happens it affects your breathing first, and you breathe more shallowly, and you don't even notice it.

Therefore in relation to something such as blood pressure or pain or acid reflux—anything, ANYTHING that your body is creating—an allergy, it doesn't matter what it is. Every time your body creates something that isn't its natural or what you term to be normal state, anything additional, it immediately affects your breathing. It affects your breathing first. In addition to whatever the physical manifestation is, your breathing is automatically affected. Therefore, if you have some situation, some physical manifestation that is ongoing, your breathing will be affected in an ongoing manner.

JASON: And to make this even bigger picture, because I'm kind of zeroing in on this as a... you know, right there, you have a tool to help you get in your own flow and to create what you want in other areas just by becoming more aware of that.

ELIAS: Yes. But now I would say, yes, ideally, and yes to a degree, but then in addition to being aware of it, it is also a matter of initially altering what you are doing.

JASON: Right, right. That's... yeah.

ELIAS: Sometimes—sometimes—simply being aware of something can actually change the effect. But with MOST situations and most actions, that being aware of it, yes, is important and that is the first step; and then it is also a matter of engaging the next step, which is to actively, physically change something. Therefore, changing your breathing, intentionally relaxing, which is a matter of more so of intentionally relaxing, because when you try to change your breathing you inevitably move in directions in which you are creating an artificial breathing action anyway.


ELIAS: Breathing is somewhat of a tricky business, because if you are attempting to breathe naturally you automatically won't, because you are thinking about it.


ELIAS: And that alters how you are breathing. You are attempting to control it, and that doesn't allow you to breathe naturally. Now when you move in a direction of relaxing your body, then you will begin to breathe more naturally.

JASON: Okay. Okay. That's a good point, because otherwise I could easily go in another direction. (Both laugh)

ELIAS: And thinking definitely doesn't do anything except think, or perpetuate certain expressions that you are already engaging, but it doesn't fix, and it doesn't create your reality.

JASON: It's this sort of veil that prevents you from seeing what you're doing.

ELIAS: Precisely.

JASON: Okay, so this is all part of that engaging your periphery.

ELIAS: Yes! Yes, excellent. Congratulations.

JASON: So that's where I see, I think, my next movement as I think about my energy, more of from that perspective than what we've previously talked about.

ELIAS: Which is very understandable, and I would very much be acknowledging you in that. That is the next step. It is somewhat tricky, though. Because of what you are accustomed to and how you think automatically, you can move in directions that are actually counter to what you want to do.

JASON: Would that be moving in a direction of trying to control more?


JASON: Like artificially applying some of the tools that I've learned to create a state? (Chuckles)

ELIAS: Precisely. Yes, you are correct.

JASON: Okay. So okay, it's more about letting go of all that trying.

ELIAS: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And then therefore trusting in the now and expressing that faith in the future.

JASON: Okay, because that was actually a very normal direction for me, because I have experience with a lot of these different meditation exercises and moving in the direction of engaging that periphery, but in a controlled fashion.


JASON: Okay. Okay.

Question about expanding your awareness: Now, I want to dig into that a little bit, the idea of it, because my sense is that—and I want to bounce some things off of you—is that when we're talking about expanding our awareness, it's the degree, or at least a big part of it, is the degree of how open we are.

ELIAS: Oh, most definitely yes.

JASON: And, that openness varies, let's say throughout the day, but each of us has probably a set range that we operate in.

ELIAS: Yes, I agree.

JASON: And that, as you address to associations and start to think about them less and you're less reactive to feelings, then you start to express more of that openness, and that's what expanding your awareness is, or part of it is.

ELIAS: Yes. I would agree.

JASON: And so, if I-

ELIAS: And that expands that set parameter.

JASON: And one of the reasons that that is interesting to me is because I was thinking about acknowledging recently, and recently we published a session that we had four years ago that was big on acknowledging, and so one of the nuances in how I think about that now is that previously I would say that I viewed acknowledging as simply a step in the direction of being intentional, but more of just a reminder. But now I see the acknowledging as the direct expression of that expansion of awareness, or as... in other words, just doing the acknowledging is expanding your awareness.

ELIAS: Yes. It is. Yes, it is. And that is a piece that, as you were expressing or you were beginning to move in that direction of expressing that acknowledging is something temporary in your thinking, almost, but in actuality it is so basic to your expansion that it is a part of the maintenance of it. It is part of maintaining it.

JASON: Very interesting. And then, we could tie that in with this tension, body tension issue, then, that a more... a way that doesn't involve control to approach it, a practice would be to acknowledge as many times as you can when you start to tense up.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. This is the reason that I continue to reiterate so many times and so often how important it is that with any signal, with any feeling, whether it be physical or emotional—it doesn't matter because they are all signals—that the first action that you do is to acknowledge. That is one of the most important actions. And why? Because precisely what you are speaking about, because the action of acknowledgement is not only noticing. You can notice and not be acknowledging. Acknowledging is expressing the recognition and definition of something, but then it is the acceptance of it for what it is. And that is the piece that is the most important: the acceptance of whatever it is. Whatever it is that you are acknowledging, it's the acceptance of that for what it is. If you can do that, then you stop making important fighting with it.

JASON: It's such a dry subject initially. I mean, I actually find it interesting now, but it's almost like-

ELIAS: I very much agree. I very much agree that for most people it is.

JASON: It's like it immediately repels you.

ELIAS: And the reason that you have that perception is because you don't understand it.

JASON: Right. Right. And now, if I put it into my... So, for years and years that we discuss, oh, appreciating this and acknowledging what you're accomplishing by creating yourself, but a more advanced way, or subtle way, of approaching this is the idea that as you acknowledge what you're doing, what you're feeling, you are opening and expanding your awareness more, and those let's say positive choices will just occur more naturally, automatically.

ELIAS: They will. And you will more naturally have the ability to be intentionally choosing, and to be directing. It will be natural. Not something you have to work at, but that you will do it automatically. You don't have to keep trying and trying and trying and trying.

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: In that, I have expressed many times, trying is useless. It is, in a manner of speaking, futile. It does the opposite of what you want. It doesn't allow you to accomplish, because if you are moving in a direction of trying, you already have expressed you can't do something.

JASON: Correct. But, like we always say, you've got to start where you are.

ELIAS: That is correct.

JASON: You've got to fail and bounce.

ELIAS: Yes, and that is the reason that I have also expressed to all of you, you don't have to believe something initially. That isn't trying. Trying is different, because trying is an action in which you think you believe something and you are in actuality generating an action of attempting to force it into your reality because you think you believe it. Whereas, you can move in a direction in which you are actually practicing being directing and being intentional. Even if you don't believe something, do it anyway, or express it anyway, because that is how you became what you are now.

JASON: Right. Right. That's how you developed your habits.

ELIAS: Yes. That is how you developed EVERYTHING with yourself. That is how you became who you are, is continuously practicing and repeatedly doing actions regardless of whether you believed them initially or not, regardless of whether you WANTED to do something or not. You did it, and you repeated it for a long enough time framework until it became automatic. That doesn't mean that you ever agreed with it or that you ever liked it, but you did an action until it became automatic, and so you didn't have to think about it and you did it without considering what you were doing.

JASON: Like the action of creating problems.

ELIAS: Yes. Precisely.

JASON: Okay. So-

ELIAS: Or involving yourself or investing yourself in something that doesn't concern you, or isn't about you, or you can't do anything about, but you invest yourself anyway because you have developed the idea, the association, that that is how you express love, by investing yourself in something, becoming angry about something and involving yourself in conflict in relation to another person, because that is how you show them…

JASON: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

ELIAS: …that you love them. That is a classic example of how you learn to move in directions that you don't necessarily like, that you don't necessarily agree with.

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: But you do it repeatedly and therefore it becomes automatic, and then eventually another individual that you care about finds themself in a situation and you immediately, automatically, invest yourself in a situation that doesn't involve you.


ELIAS: But you involve yourself, and then you create conflict.

JASON: Yep. That's life. (Both laugh)

ELIAS: But it doesn't have to be YOUR life. It does-

JASON: Exactly. So, I was thinking of... to provide a little bit more of a motivational aspect to the acknowledgement, meaning I know that people are... we talked about the percentage of someone has expanded their awareness, right, and so if I say I'm at 32% this morning, I could say, "Well, I could be at 34% if I decide to acknowledge what I'm feeling through the day."

ELIAS: Yes. I agree.

JASON: Okay. I just wanted to throw that out there, because I think the expansion of awareness, I know for me and maybe for others, seemed more mysterious than that.

ELIAS: But what I would also say to you, and to everyone, is the reminder that acknowledgement doesn't mean you have to like something. It isn't the metaphysical idea of embracing something that you dislike or that is uncomfortable for you. It is a matter of recognizing that it is simply that action of recognizing and accepting—accepting something for what it is. That doesn't mean you have to like it. Therefore, it doesn't mean embrace it, love it—no. You don't have to like it. That isn't the point.

JASON: Well, a good example would be acknowledging when your body is expressing that tension. You certainly don't like it, but that's what it's doing.

ELIAS: Precisely. Precisely. You are not expressing that you love that tension, or that you even like it, but you are acknowledging it. And the reason that I express that is because so many people, even to this day, continue to interpret that expression of acknowledgement as being an expression of moving in the direction of now you like this.

JASON: Well, one of the things we talked about, working with the tool of “what am I adding to the present moment,” right?


JASON: And I've never been able to continue with that for any length of time, and what I believe the reason is, is because I start to realize how much I am beating up on myself—judging myself, let's say, that it's just too painful to continue. And part of it is because I'm not necessarily acknowledging it, each aspect, but you're starting to see it.

ELIAS: Yes. And that is the trick, my friend, is to allow yourself to move in that direction even with that type of an exercise, to move in that direction and neutralize it—not judge yourself, but see your choices.

JASON: I was saying to someone, I think that as you get more self-aware, self-judgment gets to be so painful that you just at some point can't continue with it.

ELIAS: Yes. I agree, but that also moves you more in the direction of the realization that the judgment is pointless, because it actually is, and that the point is choice, not judgment.

JASON: Right. And everyone would agree, self-judgment is useless. I can agree 100%. It’s that I just don't see myself doing it most of the time.

ELIAS: I understand, but that is the point, is moving in the direction of replacing the judgment with choices.

JASON: And I think that's what was getting to your perspective where people don't want to acknowledge something if they don't like it. A lot of times, it's that self-judgment piece. That's where I...[crosstalk]

ELIAS: Yes, and that is what they become stuck with.

JASON: I don't want to acknowledge that I'm like, I don't know, calling myself bad or wrong or...

ELIAS: Yes. I agree. But that is the point, is moving in that direction, seeing that, and then replacing that self-judgment with choice. And that is... it is simple, but it is not easy.

JASON: Okay. So, and as we expand our awareness, we're more open, we're less focused on various associations from the past, less tied up in our thoughts and reacting to our feelings, and so then we are able to see what's going on in the moment more effectively, we're able to make smarter or better choices, more effective choices, and that is where you get to the point of, as you take that further and further, it becomes easier and easier to see what needs to be done in each moment or what direction you want to move in, in each moment.

Where, in our normal state, or say a less aware state, we have so many things buzzing around in our self-awareness that it can be very difficult to see what we really want to do at any given moment.

ELIAS: Correct. Precisely. Now this, that what you expressed in this moment, is precisely the point about self-awareness changes importances. When you aren't being as self-aware and you are, in your terms, paying attention to everything that is buzzing around you, you are making all of that important.


ELIAS: And when you are genuinely moving in a direction of being more self-aware, all of that noise becomes unimportant. All of that buzzing around you loses its importance. Your importances change, and that is ultimately significant, because I reiterate what I expressed in the very onset of this forum: You pay attention to what is important to you. You DON'T pay attention to what ISN'T important to you. Therefore, this is significant, because this is the reason that I am expressing so repeatedly to be aware of what you pay attention to. Because whatever you pay attention to, you have made important, and that is the direction that your reality moves in, because that is what you are feeding to perception.

JASON: Right. And if you're paying attention to a problem, that's what you are projecting.

ELIAS: Precisely. And the reason you are paying attention to it is because you made it important. If it wasn't important, you wouldn't pay attention to it.

JASON: So one way to phrase this would be that I'm erasing the problems from my awareness by acknowledging them, and therefore erasing them from my reality.

ELIAS: Almost, yes. And in some cases, definitely yes.

JASON: Right. Right. I can see it.

ELIAS: And I acknowledge that the concept is simple, and it is. Doing it, implementing it, is not always that easy.

JASON: No, and I think part of what is motivating this discussion here is it helps me think about this "what we're doing" in a larger context of framing it, because... And I can see, like one of the things that I believe is true is that, as you're acknowledging what's coming up for you, and let’s say your awareness is becoming more open, those issues start to dissolve, right? They start to erase. But, so do other things, meaning you don't have to acknowledge every single thing, because as you expand your awareness, automatically those other things start to lose importance, too.

ELIAS: Correct. Correct. You don't have to address to everything, because you automatically ARE addressing to everything because, as I expressed previously, you don't have to work at all of this. When you are addressing something, your subjective awareness is what is addressing to it. Now that doesn't mean that you don't do anything objectively—you do. But the piece of working at it is being done by the subjective awareness. That is the reason that I have incorporated these explanations about what is physically happening inside your body consciousness, what is physically happening in creating new neurological pathways, which is what you are doing when you are addressing to something. That is what you are doing.

JASON: And what would be the objective indicator of that occurring?

ELIAS: You become more aware of the subject in many different influences, and in some situations you are intentionally implementing choices differently than simply being expressing autopilot.

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: And in that, you are objectively implementing different actions, different choices, but the work, in your terms, of letting go and addressing to and making that thing—that subject, whatever it is—unimportant or less important, is being done by the subjective awareness, by moving it out of that one hemisphere of your brain, moving it out of that and moving it to the other. But in order to do that, you have to construct, physically, a new neurological pathway in the other side of your brain. And in that, that is what your subjective awareness is doing. It is instructing the body consciousness in action: What to do. Take this action. Construct a new groove in the brain, and then move this association from the one side of the brain to the other side of the brain, and therefore neutralizing it.

JASON: Yes. Yes, that's what I was going to say, that you'll know that when that's complete when you don't react to that association.

ELIAS: Precisely. Precisely. You notice it, because, as I have expressed, triggers are simply that. They are a trigger that touches the memory, and the memory has the association.

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: That is all a trigger is. It is simply something, some objective sense input, that is touching a memory.

JASON: Now, it's interesting you talk about moving it from one half of the brain to the other hemisphere of the brain. What it seems to be makes that decision that came up is the idea is whether this is important to my survival. Is that...?


JASON: If you believe this is important to your survival, it gets put in a part of your brain where you're going to react to it.

ELIAS: Yes! You are correct. Yes. You are actually correct in that, yes, and it doesn't matter what it is. It could seem objectively ludicrous, but in the moment, when the association is created and the experience is had, then once that moment passes, it becomes a memory. If the association has been established with that memory that this is a significant threat, and that it IS a threat to your survival, then it is placed in that hemisphere of your brain and it becomes stuck there. And it is stuck there for a reason: to alert you whenever anything is similar to that, because that means it is a threat to your survival again.

JASON: And that's... I think phrasing it that way, just thinking about it that way, is also a way to think about it in a more kinder way, that we can feel—that I certainly felt—like, I'm being tortured by these associations, but that's from a broader perspective. This is simply what I thought was important.

ELIAS: Correct. Correct.

JASON: To be safe.

ELIAS: Yes, to be safe.

JASON: And I might not agree with that now, but it's not going to change in one day.

ELIAS: Correct. And in that, as I have expressed, it is very similar, and it doesn't matter what the subject matter is. It is you and your body consciousness reacting as if you are staring into the face and the teeth of a lion. And in the moment, when you make that association that you are staring into the face and the teeth of a lion, you are stamping that experience with the association of, this is, yes, threatening to my survival. This is such a threat that this NEEDS to be very close to my objective awareness always, so that whenever I meet another lion and I'm staring at its teeth, I know what to do. I know to run away.

JASON: Not realizing that because you're focused on that association of that lion, you don't know that you're actually more likely to create it.

ELIAS: Precisely. That also is a significant piece in all of it, yes. And you likely WILL create it over and over, which is what creates the strength of some of these associations, because you do create it over and over again. And in doing so, you are reinforcing that association over and over again and making it stronger and stronger and stronger. And you don't even realize it. And you don't realize all of the reactions that your body consciousness is engaging and expressing every time that that is happening, such as affecting your breathing, again and again and again and again.

JASON: Wow, fascinating reality we've...

ELIAS: It definitely is! (Jason laughs). And complex, and in that, it IS actually fascinating, because you are so intricate in what you create. This is the reason that it required something such as a master source event to be inserted into your reality to change it in this shift, because you ARE so complex and your REALITY is so complex.

I agree with you tremendously, my friend. And all of you are, quite fascinating also, in how you maneuver and how you choose. And that is another point which recently is becoming more and more significant, let us say, that this is another significant point in that the more you are becoming more self-aware, the more all of you are beginning to notice now and to recognize that I can predict less of your directions.

JASON: Really?

ELIAS: Because you are becoming more and more and more aware of your own choices.

JASON: That makes sense.

ELIAS: Even when you don't necessarily choose something intentionally, it doesn't matter. You are becoming more self-aware, and in doing so you are creating a situation in which your potentials are... their life span is shorter, in a manner of speaking metaphorically, in that you are more inclined to change your direction more quickly, change your choices more quickly.

JASON: You're speaking globally, right?

ELIAS: Yes. All of you, that you can change your direction very quickly, instantly. You change your mind very quickly, because you are seeing more of the picture.

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: And therefore the more quickly you can change and turn, the less predictable you become.

JASON: Right. Once you address a few of those associations related to your survival, they get easier and easier—


JASON: --to tackle.

ELIAS: Yes. And whereas you may have been creating a direction for a considerable time framework, and it may have been easier to predict the likelihood of what you would do and what direction you would move in, that is no longer the situation. Now eventually—when you are implementing your self-awareness and your directedness, intentionally choosing more consistently and you aren't as volatile as you are in this in-between stage, so to speak—once you move in that direction and become more stable, so to speak, in your direction, that it will move back in the direction in which I likely will have the ability to, in a manner of speaking, predict what directions you are likely to move in, in any given situation—but so will you.

JASON: Right, because we'll be choosing it.

ELIAS: Precisely. Precisely. But what people are NOTICING and are reacting to presently in the capacity of being somewhat disillusioned or disappointed, that I can't necessarily predict what they will do, and therefore I can't necessarily tell them what they are doing or what direction they are engaging and therefore prevent it. They are reacting to that piece presently because that is what they want myself to do, and that is becoming increasingly more difficult as people become increasingly more unpredictable.

JASON: Well, I mean, disillusioned is not necessarily a bad thing.

ELIAS: I agree. They don't necessarily—

JASON: Fine. It's tough at first, yeah, but it's—

ELIAS: They don't necessarily see it that way, but I definitely agree, because it moves you in a direction of being more reliant on yourself.

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: [That] is the point, which I have been expressing from the first moment that I have engaged any of you. That is the point, that is the goal, that you will move to the point in which you may engage with myself in friendship because you want to, not because you require so many answers.

JASON: Well, I think, even now as we discussed a lot of this, it's more... as I go around tinkering with my energy and what I'm doing, it helps provide me with insights into that and how to move more effectively.

ELIAS: I agree. I definitely agree. You are definitely an example of what I am expressing, that it isn't the dynamic that it once was.

JASON: Right.

ELIAS: But, that doesn't mean that you entirely move in a direction in which you disengage interaction with myself—which also is another piece that is bothersome to people presently, because in that disillusioned state they're also experiencing sadness in addition to being angry. They are angry, and they are also sad that they may be losing a friend—but they aren't.

JASON: Mm. I understand.

ELIAS: But I acknowledge all of it, and I express that it definitely all is purposeful and that it is actually moving all of you in precisely the direction that you want to be.

JASON: Right. Right, right. You've got to go through that... If you're not... Yeah, I understand. Okay.

Elias, thank you very, very much. This has been very, very interesting, and I really appreciate it.

ELIAS: You are exceptionally welcome, my friend. And I am tremendously acknowledging you in what you are accomplishing. Congratulations!

JASON: Thank you.

ELIAS: In tremendous lovingness to you as always, and in a great supportiveness, my dear friend, au revoir.

JASON: Goodbye, Elias.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 4 minutes)