Session 201809252

Session 201809252
“Behavior as a Signal”
“9/11 Imagery”
“Dream Imagery”
“An Excellent Example of Automatic Defense Reactions”

Tuesday, September 25, 2018 (Private)

Participants: Mary (Michael), Jean (Lyla) and Jean-François (Samta)

ELIAS: And good afternoon.

JEAN: Good afternoon! (Elias laughs) Woo! We meet… J-F has a quick question.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: I’ve got one little quick thing.

ELIAS: Very well.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: My childhood friend who lived nearby my house, his name is Jean Sebastien—was, because he died relatively young: was that your energy? Was that something to do with your energy? The guy looks awfully much like Oscar Wilde.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) Yes.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: That was a focus of you?

ELIAS: No, not a focus.


ELIAS: But a superimposed energy. Yes.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: Interesting. Thank you.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) You are welcome.

JEAN: I’d like to start with some fun stuff.

ELIAS: Very well.

JEAN: Margaret MacDonald: is that an OE or a focus? The artist? Or family?

ELIAS: Observing AND family. Yes.

JEAN: Family. So I have a relation… would it be her husband?


JEAN: Am I a focus of the husband? You’re kidding me. (Elias laughs) Is that why I’m so emotional about the Glasgow School of Arts going up in flames again? Holy fucking wow. (Elias chuckles) That’s a focus?


JEAN: Wow. (Elias chuckles) What about Eleanor of Aquitaine?

ELIAS: Observing.

JEAN: Observing. And then there’s a book I’ve read several times, and it’s called The Boy Who Saw. Do I have an association with that individual?

ELIAS: The author?

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: The mother.

JEAN: I’m the mother. Interesting. (Sighs)

Has my mother seen holes yet?

ELIAS: Yes, to a degree.

JEAN: To a degree. That was my impression exactly.

And my genuine talent?

ELIAS: And your impression?

JEAN: Connecting. Or is that too general? Because my genuine gift is empathy, which is connecting.

ELIAS: But a talent—

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: — is different.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: Because a talent is associated with an action you do to produce something.

JEAN: Okay. Right.

ELIAS: Therefore, what would you express in that?

JEAN: I don’t know, Elias.

ELIAS: I would say that a significant talent that you have is, in a manner of speaking, enhancement. You have a talent to look at expressions that other individuals produce and incorporate a type of critique “eye” with other individuals’ talents, what they produce, and encourage to enhance, to make better, to make more, to encourage that blossoming. And what you do is you can do that yourself also. Whatever you see in your home or around you or even with garments, you have that talent to, in a manner of speaking, critique and enhance it, make better, make more.

JEAN: Thank you.

I’m going to ask a question, kind of a shortish question for my husband. He’s been seeing a lot of imagery. He wakes up and he sees the clock at 9:11, and he keeps seeing this repeatedly. And as you probably know, he’s kind of doing that pheasant thing. He’s into this, into this, into this – and he feels that he should go into the downsizing business or he should really focus on this online store, and then he goes, “Oh, I need to get back into Japanese management in corporate and whatever.” And recently he’s been given something called the 9/11 Tour in New York City. And he’s wondering if that’s imagery just to focus more on his tour guide business and expression, versus going in all these other directions? What’s most beneficial for him right now?

ELIAS: It is imagery in relation to focusing in one direction and to evaluating what is genuinely the most important for him. That is what this imagery is about, to stop floundering, to stop being distracted, to genuinely focus in what is important, to evaluate and remove the chaff.

JEAN: Is there anything else we can relay to him that may help him with that?

ELIAS: Simplify. Pay attention to what he knows that is natural and comfortable for him. Therefore, yes, I would agree with the tour business. He likes it. It is natural for him. He connects with other individuals. He enjoys it. It is fun for him, and it is an easy avenue for him to incorporate an actual business and generate money. It is not work, and it allows him to have fun, enjoy himself and be connecting with other individuals.

Which, that is what is important. The money will generate naturally from him generating what is comfortable and fun and what he enjoys. When he focuses on the money first as being the motivator, then he is generating importance in directions that aren’t important and not genuine.

Therefore, what is significant is for him to pay attention to what genuinely is important, and making money the primary motivation is not. That can easily be made, and more of it, when he is actually comfortable and enjoying himself than moving in many different directions and being stressful and expressing anxiety and confusion and jumping from one direction to another direction and confusing himself.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: That isn’t fun, it isn’t enjoyable, and he becomes very scattered. And that is not what is important.

JEAN: Excellent.

I’m kind of going to go with me and what… since this downtime with Mary, I really think I’ve gotten into the material at a whole new level. And I think the biggest accomplishment – I’m probably going to cry – is that for the first time, I really like who I am.

ELIAS: Congratulations! That is a significant accomplishment.

JEAN: I know. I really love who I am. And it’s about… I understand what you’re talking about, finding the comfort and the satisfaction in the moment. And before, I thought well how could that ever lead me to what I want and desire? But in some way, I think it can.

ELIAS: Precisely.

JEAN: And really, I’m going to say with the help… I’ve really been working with Lynda. She’s been such a tremendous… so much fun and helping me. We’ve been really working together on understanding feelings and bouncing it off of each other and talking about day-to-day things, what goes on and how we reacted and why. I just wanted to extend a tremendous thank you to her.

Now, the kind of serious question I get is I’ve kind of given myself to October 1st to do something about the modeling.

ELIAS: Do something in what capacity?

JEAN: Just contact agencies. Just get out there and… I don’t want to do anything elaborate. I just want to send some pics that I took and let it go with no expectations. Is that suitable for my energy?

ELIAS: Definitely.

JEAN: Okay. What’s been interesting – and I know it’s my thought mechanism translating something – but you know, I’m still having these wild things of panic. But then I’ll find this level of comfort and satisfaction. And when I get into it and I am just finding beauty in the moment and just loving what I’m doing, even if it’s in the kitchen cleaning dishes or whatever, I’ll get this translation of maybe it’s just time to disengage now.

Because I read in one of the sessions where you said a lot of suicides – well, not a lot, but some suicides, it isn’t necessarily that you’re so upset with the world you want to stop, it’s just that your value fulfillment has run out and it’s just your body consciousness not wanting to leave. And people are going, “I’m done. I’m done.” And I almost feel like that. I’m almost… I’m kind of at the point like I’d go there. It would be so easy for me to walk in and drop a needle in my arm and just go. And I don’t know if that’s a genuine direction that I want to go.

So, I feel like I’m on a precipice of… (Pause)

ELIAS: In answer to that, is that a genuine direction that you want to go, and your value fulfillment is complete? No.

I would say to you that it is a curious expression that you are presenting to yourself. Let me say to you, (pause) as you become more self-aware, as you expand, SOME old issues and associations begin to be expressed in different manners that are more acceptable, more (pause) appealing, because the presentment of a negative would very quickly off-put you.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: Because you are looking for that.

JEAN: I am.

ELIAS: Therefore, let me express to you, as beings that you are, humans, you are exceptionally clever. (Jean laughs) You are tremendously creative, you are tremendously inventive, and you are very clever. Which are tremendous qualities, but you can use them with yourselves also to be somewhat deceptive.

Let me also express to you: I have explained previously that with certain experiences, because you are so clever you automatically separate them. You separate the memory from the emotional communication and from the signal. Not that you don’t experience both; you do, but not together.

In doing that, let me express to you that as you expand, there will be – and you are already experiencing this – time frameworks in which you will have enough intellectual information about yourself and about your experiences that you will THINK that you addressed it, because you have that information.

What is the indicator – or once again, the flag – that that is not entirely correct? Not only the feelings, because at times the experience may not be accompanied by a feeling.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: Yes, to a degree, the automatic feelings that occur in different situations, that is one indicator. But another indicator is – this is more insidious and more difficult to identify or to become aware of – is that the association is at surface level, so to speak, but not in your thinking. And your thinking begins to move in a direction that seems neutral.

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: Therefore, when you think about memories, experiences, associations, you feel neutral. You aren’t generating extreme feelings any longer. And that is what you think is your indicator that—

JEAN: (Sighs) You’ve addressed it.

ELIAS: Yes. But your behavior betrays that. Therefore, hesitations or reluctance or expressing “I am going to do this” but having that pit in your stomach.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: “I have chosen. I am going to incorporate these pictures of myself and I will present them to an agency by this time.” But whenever you think about that, you incorporate that tension.

JEAN: Absolutely.

ELIAS: And regardless that you are determined to do it, there is that anxiety, there is that tension. THAT, the behavior—

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: THAT is your indicator that what you have done is you have presented the issue, the association to yourself. You have identified it. Those are excellent steps and they are important, that you know what you are addressing to.

It is once again as I have expressed previously, a matter of pulling together the association, the memory, the experience with the signals, with the feelings, with the emotional communications.

JEAN: Let me ask you this, because you told me in a session a while back that one of my advantages with the most recent trauma was that I had NOT disassociated to—

ELIAS: Correct.

JEAN: Is this other stuff?


JEAN: This is other stuff.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

JEAN: This is going back more into childhood stuff?


JEAN: Okay.


JEAN: Not worthy?

ELIAS: Definitely.

JEAN: And what are the other topics?

ELIAS: Ah. Not only not worthy, but bad.

JEAN: Yeah. Wow.

ELIAS: Therefore, not trustworthy and not deserving because of bad. Simply bad.

JEAN: Oh! My heart started racing when you said that.

ELIAS: That leads to a host of other expressions in the direction of not enough. You CANNOT address, or in your terminology “deal,” with these types of associations intellectually.

JEAN: Right. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. Yes. Definitely.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: Yes. That small action, you may not think that that small action is significant. It IS significant. Your body is responsive to cues. Your body does not distinguish time.

JEAN: So, if I do this and I’m asking what is—

ELIAS: You are being more present with your body. You are instructing the body to be now when you do this. You are instructing the body, “These experiences are not now.”

JEAN: So, you don’t even have to identify necessarily what the experiences are?


JEAN: It’s just when these feelings of reluctance and stuff comes over and I see my behavior—

ELIAS: Yes. It is helpful if you can connect to the memories in some capacity. It doesn’t mean you have to explore every single memory that you have. You can generate one memory as your symbol, so to speak, of all of the experiences.

JEAN: Let me ask, because I was talking to someone else recently, I don’t remember much of my childhood. Did I separate some stuff that happened?


JEAN: Holy shit.

ELIAS: That is significant. (Jean sighs) Disassociating with your experiences in that type of degree, in which you don’t remember.

Now, let me express to you: I have expressed previously that in some situations – not common – some individuals do generate changing primary aspects.

JEAN: Have I done that?


JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: As I expressed, it is not common for individuals to do that. And when they do, they can experience a significant loss of memory, loss of recall–

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: — with memory. Most individuals that incorporate that loss of recall is because of some type of experiences that the individual interpreted as trauma.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: It doesn’t have to be a physical trauma.

JEAN: All right.

ELIAS: But that is generally what creates that block, why individuals do that, that it is a protection mechanism. That is a very obvious and blatant example of the separation of the memory and the feelings, in which you don’t recall any of the memories but you have the feelings.

JEAN: As a three-year-old, I almost died of a ruptured appendix. Is that related to some of the…?

ELIAS: Some. Yes.

JEAN: Some. So, did most of this trauma occur before three?


JEAN: It was after that. Okay.


JEAN: Let me just sit with that, for right now. And all of a sudden, I feel a different… in my energy, like almost a permission to…

ELIAS: Yes. THAT you will notice. Now, what I will say to you is (sighs) addressing to these expressions, these memories and associations, isn’t a matter of identifying every detail of them.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: And how you will know that you are addressing to them, or you have addressed to them, is that your behavior will change. It will be obvious to you in what you might think of as insignificant or small expressions, but consistent expressions; actions that you do every day, or situations that you engage every day, or something that is in your periphery every day that you are aware of but you may not be directly interacting with. That is where you will begin seeing differences in your behavior. Something on your periphery that annoys you on a daily basis you will be aware of and it doesn’t annoy you any longer. It isn’t important; you don’t care. Or something that you are engaging on a daily basis, you will notice you are suddenly doing it different, not the same.

That is how you will know. The emotional charge stops. Therefore, I could engage questions with you about the trauma that you experienced several years prior, and you would have the ability to speak with me about that—

JEAN: Much differently.

ELIAS: — and not cry.

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: And not feel that tension inside of you, that the charge will be gone. Not that you will look on that experience fondly; you won’t. But the charge is gone.

What is happening in you is that emotional charge, in a manner of speaking – actually quite literally, in actuality – is your body is reacting to certain memories and certain associations, whether you recall them or not. It is reacting to the triggers of that. And what happens is your nervous system is generating shocking your body. And you feel that immediate anxious or tightness–

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: — in your stomach, in your throat, and your body tenses. Your nervous system is generating electric shock to your body, to generate that intense reaction very quickly, and holds it.

If you were to electrically shock your body, your body would experience that not only for a moment. It would experience that for several minutes, that intensity of the electricity. That is what your nervous system is doing, inside of your body.

Now; when you actually ARE addressing and moving through an association or an issue, that charge stops. The body stops doing that. You may continue to engage somewhat of a FEELING about that, a signal about it, because you do have a judgment that this was not good, this was a bad experience. Or you may even feel slightly sad, but that punch is gone. It doesn’t happen any longer.

JEAN: Wow. Let me sit with this.

ELIAS: Yes. It is to be digested and assimilated. But what I am expressing to you is what you term to be “the work” is already done.

JEAN: Okay. And then when I do identify those moments, that’s when to use the bravery?


JEAN: It’s to choose in spite of…

ELIAS: Yes. And when you feel that, use your fingers. [See note below]

JEAN: Use your fingers.


JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: When you feel that. Because that is redirecting your body.

JEAN: Thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

JEAN: I don’t know how much time we have. Let me check. Oh. Okay, good.

Dream imagery.

ELIAS: Very well.

JEAN: I’m in a situation. A lot of things happen, and basically it kind of starts out I’m living in a house, kind of a rundown house in a single room. And then other people move into the house with a bunch of children and I’m irritated. And I learn I have magical abilities, and then people are poo-pooing it. And I’m just in a small-minded atmosphere, and I present myself with certain scenarios with that.

So, then I thought, “I’m just getting out of here. I’m out of here." You know? And I notice I have a Saluki puppy at my feet. So, then I decide I’m leaving this town. It’s almost like breaking out of a new, in my focus symbol, a new thing.

And so, I’m just leaving, and I notice I’m coming upon this huge field—huge, huge, like a thousand, couple thousand acres. And there’s this big fence probably ten foot tall. But it’s kind of welded metal in squares. So, it’s easy to climb over and to climb back and it’s very sturdy.

And I look down and I’m naked. And the puppy got on the other side of the fence and was following me on the other side of the fence. And I’m like, “Well, I’ve got to find some clothes or something.” So, I come upon this little shack and I go in it. There’s a large window, and I also know that there’s some clothes on the floor. And I thought, “Hah! How perfect is that? Some T-shirts and jeans.” And I look out the window, and there are some horses way in the back. And they’re mares and foals. And I notice one foal notices me and starts coming towards me. And I’m like, “Oh shit! I’ve got to get these clothes on and go get the puppy.” Because it was such a small foal, they’re at the age where the mare will follow. And I’m like, “Because that mare’s going to follow when she sees the dog…” The natural instinct is for horses to kill dogs a lot of times when they have their foals beside them.

So, I turn around to put the clothes on, and I look down and there’s fleas eating at my feet. And then I notice the clothes are like this… they’re two pieces, but it’s like heavy sweaters that have been wet and musty. And I thought, “Oh, I bet they’re covered in fleas, too.” And I said, “Well, what the fuck? I don’t care.” So, I put on the top and it only comes to my stomach. So, then I have to put on the bottoms. I think, “What the fuck?” And I just… I leave the other side of the building and I start climbing the fence to go get my little dog, to pull it back over to continue on my journey. And it ends.

ELIAS: And your interpretation?

JEAN: Oh my god! Moving through bravery.

ELIAS: Definitely.

JEAN: Definitely. Um… You’re going to have to help me here.

ELIAS: I would express that it is a presentment of many different types of scenarios but all the same theme, therefore giving you many different scenarios of the same choice. The same choice is, do you react or do you choose for you? Do you choose to move in the direction of what is benefitting you? And how are you listening to you and guarding yourself?

Which, I would say this is very creative imagery, because this is what you do in life. You generate many different experiences with the same subject.

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: And with the same choices. And in that, this is the reason that I have expressed many times objective imagery is abstract. It can be expressed in hundreds of manners for the same subject, which is precisely what you did. And in that, showing yourself your choices are the same in each different scenario. But in that, some of the choices involve feelings, some of the choices you dismiss the feelings. You acknowledge them, but you dismiss them.

In the first scenario, too many individuals, you were uncomfortable, it was too crowded, not enough of your own space arrangement. And you felt uncomfortable, but you were aware of why you were uncomfortable, and therefore the feeling did interplay in your choice but it wasn’t the dictator of your choice, and you left.

In the scenario with the clothing, you incorporated the feeling of being distressed and off put by the idea that the clothing may be infested with insects, but choosing regardless, not allowing the feeling to dictate what the choice was.

In each scenario, the choice is about you and what is your benefit and what is for your greatest comfort. The choice of being in that open space but then noticing that you have no clothes on, which generates a feeling of being tremendously exposed and not being comfortable with that. But regardless of being uncomfortable with that, your choices were centered around the dog, which is you. Your symbol.

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: And in that, with the clothing you were responding to being exposed and not being entirely comfortable with that and therefore moving in the direction of incorporating the clothes. But even still, your main priority was what? The dog. To keep your focus on the dog and–

JEAN: Wow.

ELIAS: — what is the benefit to the dog and what is to continue to be moving in the direction of the dog. Because that is you. That is your symbol.

JEAN: Oh my god. Thank you.

ELIAS: Therefore, I would express that that was an excellent validating dream.

JEAN: Excellent.

And then another dream imagery: I was travelling with a group of people, and we ended up in like a Chinatown. Does Vancouver—or not Vancouver—Vancouver or Montreal have like a Chinatown. And I got lost, separated from the group of people. And I’m like, “Okay. I have choices. I don’t really know where I am, but I think I can find my way back to the hotel.” And as I was “I’m going to kind of use my instincts to get back,” I also heard my group of people, because they were on a tour but they were like in like a horse-drawn or a person-drawn carriage, but I knew they were going among a maze in this foreign town, and if I just went out and tried to blindly listen to the voices, I’d probably weren’t going to find them. And I was like, “No, I can do this by myself. I’ll find my way back.”

But on the way back I kept finding gorgeous silver coins in the roads. Sometimes there’d be a piece of copper, and I’d go back and I’d pick it up, and I’d go traveling along. And these were busy, kind of dirty streets, and then there’d be more silver coins. So, I was going along finding silver coins.

(Sighs) I mean, I like the imagery. But specifically, it’s…

ELIAS: Another very validating dream, in which you are rewarding yourself for following yourself.

JEAN: Ah. Wow.

ELIAS: Therefore, regardless of the imagery around you, regardless of whether it is dirty or whether it is confusing or whether it is uncertain, you are following yourself and you are rewarding yourself for that.

JEAN: Okay. It’s so obvious now. Thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome.

JEAN: Woo! (Elias chuckles)

What do sequoias represent in my focus symbol? I think you told me they represent the strength, the symbol through which I gather strength. And in trying to study them to answer the question, they’re very large, they’re very powerful, and they have like a sacred quality to them.

ELIAS: Because they are enduring.

JEAN: Ah. They are enduring.

ELIAS: They are almost ancient. Because they incorporate such long endurance, they are enormous and powerful. But to become that enormous, they must be generating significantly long lifetimes.

Think about a tree. It gains one ring for one year. And in that one year, it in girth does not grow tremendously. One ring is not a tremendous expansion from the previous ring. Therefore, to gain that many rings they must be living and growing for a tremendous amount of time. They are tremendously rooted. They are what you would term to be grounded but express tremendous grandeur and majesty in their strength and their endurance.

But I would also express that they are a symbol of wisdom. All of which you possess, regardless that you don’t think you do. (Laughs) The factor that you don’t think you do is irrelevant. (Laughs)

JEAN: And then again, the jaguar. I don’t know, I said white jaguar. Is it a white jaguar? Or does it matter?

ELIAS: It actually doesn’t matter, but it—

JEAN: So, it’s a—

ELIAS: — is changeable dependent upon you.

JEAN: The jaguar also—of course it has tremendous… the whole cat—I mean, it’s a large cat. And I have a lot of cat-like stuff. But that’s also an animal steeped in folklore of mystical and changeable and…

ELIAS: Definitely. Shifters.

JEAN: Shifters. So, I’m the shifter peering behind a rock, looking at things, all within a glass cube which represents my life as kind of a series of busting out of cubes. I’m shifting…

ELIAS: Congratulations.

JEAN: Yeah. And the silver chain is the intuitive.


JEAN: And the gold star is the essence.

How do I put that all together?

ELIAS: (Chuckles) You don’t have to. It all is together.

JEAN: It all is.

ELIAS: It isn’t all separate. It isn’t a matter of how do you put it all together; it is a matter of stop compartmentalizing.

JEAN: Okay. I’m compartmentalizing.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Stop separating.

JEAN: Okay. Okay. Okay. (Elias chuckles) Okay.

What may be some beneficial stones for me to wear around me? I thought this: I heard you say it’s a selenite, that it balances, it helps balance the chakras. And I love it. And I like wearing it. Are there some other stones, perhaps singly or in combination? Of course, on me I’ve got a garnet and I’ve got a lot of lapis that I may draw strength from in the…

ELIAS: I agree. I would say onyx.

JEAN: Onyx.

ELIAS: That may be a lovely complement to your other stones.

JEAN: To the selenite. And the onyx is a balancing—


JEAN: — stone. (Pause) Wow. This is great. A lot of my stuff is just kind of going through the wayside here. (Elias chuckles) (Pause)

J-F: you gave his essence symbol as a porpoise. But a porpoise is a cetacean, and you’ve told other people in your sessions that cetaceans you wouldn’t choose as a symbol. So, does he still have a porpoise as an essence? So, what’s going on here? (Elias chuckles) It’s a scandal.

ELIAS: A scandal!

JEAN: It is. It’s a Sumafi scandal.

ELIAS: Oh! How did it become a Sumafi scandal?

JEAN: Because technically—

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: Contradiction.

JEAN: Contradiction. You said this, but then you said this.


JEAN-FRANÇOIS: A small scandal.

ELIAS: Ah! But perhaps I could be symbolized in an essence symbol also, and would that be scandalous? It would be a part of the individual. I would say that I could include myself in the essence symbol with Michael.

JEAN: I see. Okay.

ELIAS: Because it is so interconnected with his life. And in that, that is a symbol of interconnectedness that you express as you, that you naturally express that easily and fluidly, that interconnectedness. The reason that I chose that image as the symbol of connectedness is to emphasize that it doesn’t matter what it is; that it can be another essence, that it can be another individual, that it can be a thing; it doesn’t matter. That you have that ability. This isn’t about channeling. This isn’t about those types of actions or energy exchanges. It is about connecting, that interconnectedness.

JEAN: [To J-F] Go ahead. Ask him.

ELIAS: It isn’t contrary.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: It isn’t a paradox. I would express that including that as essence, it symbolizes – and this is what these are, they are symbols that depict qualities of each of you – that is one of those qualities.

JEAN: I don’t think he sees that in himself yet, and that’s what’s emerging.

ELIAS: I would say to a degree. I would say you do see it to a degree. Not entirely, and as you expand you see it more and more.

I would say that you see your ability to be connecting with others more than you see your ability to connect with yourself. That it is easy for you to connect with others, if you choose to objectively (Jean laughs). That it isn’t a difficult action for you, because it is natural.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: In one of my early sessions you had said that I had allowed somewhat less separation between me and the vastness of essence. That’s part of that?



ELIAS: It is. Which would be quite well symbolized by a porpoise.


ELIAS: (Chuckles) I would say that it is interesting and fun for some individuals to find what they think of as discrepancies. But there really actually aren’t. (Laughs)

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: We weren’t searching for these.

JEAN: I mean, we were—

ELIAS: Some individuals actually look for and are—

JEAN: No, it wasn’t meant as that. We just want to get at—

ELIAS: I was not expressing to either of you. (Group chatter) I expressed “some individuals” and you did immediately, both of you, personalized that.

JEAN: Personalized. Wow.

ELIAS: I wasn’t speaking of either of you!

JEAN: We defended ourselves. Look how quick it was. (Elias laughs)

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: But it wasn’t like a very strong urge or anything, like it wasn’t major.

ELIAS: I agree. Which is a definite advancement. But it was there.


JEAN: It was there. (Elias laughs) And that… It gets back, it even would tie into the trauma.


JEAN: In childhood.


JEAN: Of I did something wrong.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: But for the record, it’s like I think we recognize the quality for what you share. And sometimes some details will come up as seeming contradictions, and it’s surprising. That’s really what it is. So… but it stems from a recognition of value.

ELIAS: I agree. And I also express that at times that confuses you, because you have very specific and rigid perceptions at times.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: That’s our compartmentalizing at work.

ELIAS: Yes. Most definitely. I agree. And those are excellent examples of that. And this was an excellent example of automatic defense reactions. (Laughs)

JEAN: Isn’t that amazing?

ELIAS: In which I was not even speaking of either of you.

JEAN: I know. We did it.

ELIAS: (Laughs) But in that, I would express that it is beneficial that you have that curiosity, that you do, for YOU, not being the individuals that look for discrepancies, but when you identify something that is confusing to you, that seems to be a paradox or seems to be..

JEAN-FRANCOIS: Not fitting.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. That this is a tremendous benefit for you, to actually present and ask a question about, to allow the explanation. And that aids you in expanding your perception from that rigid awareness of only what you see, and that it is larger than that.

JEAN: Thank you, Elias. We will let Mary come back. Thank you so much.

ELIAS: You are tremendously welcome.

JEAN: Any just last-minute advice for me to work with?

ELIAS: Yes. Do not leave and return to your home and carry with you worrying about what we have discussed.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: Or underlying associations that haven’t been addressed to. Don’t do that.

JEAN: Okay. Flow.

ELIAS: But rather, know that if we were discussing it, it already it being addressed to.

JEAN: Thank you.

ELIAS: And you will see the evidence of that in behaviors.

JEAN: Thank you.

ELIAS: Look for changes in behaviors, not for “I’m not addressing to this issue”—

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: --and discounting yourself. Don’t do that.

JEAN: Thank you.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: The work is done.

JEAN: Okay.


JEAN: Thank you.

ELIAS; (Chuckles) THAT is correct. (Chuckles)

I express tremendous lovingness to you, and great encouragement to both of you.

(Giving orders) Stop concentrating on illness, stop concentrating on that you aren’t addressing to. And don’t defend yourself!

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: But I’m doing it less than last year.

ELIAS: Yes, you are.


ELIAS: Yes, you are. And that is the reason that I can express to you now, stop concentrating on that.

JEAN-FRANÇOIS: Altogether.

JEAN: Thank you.

ELIAS: A year prior, that would have been interpreted in a very different manner, and you would have discounted yourself tremendously. Now, you SEE what you are accomplishing, and I can express that to you and you won’t automatically move in a direction of tremendously discounting yourself, but rather acknowledging what you ARE accomplishing. Congratulations! (Laughs)


JEAN: Thank you.

ELIAS: I say congratulations to both of you.

JEAN: Thank you.

ELIAS: Until our next meeting, in tremendous lovingness, great encouragement and dear friendship, as always, au revoir.

JEAN: Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 2 minutes)

Note: "Using your fingers" is an exercise of holding both hands out in front of you and touching your thumb and your index finger together on each hand and alternating the rhythm back-and-forth from hand to hand in an alternating fashion.