Session 202002201

“Giving People the Power to Hurt You”
“The Next Step in Relation to Differences: The Importance of the Individual and Following YOUR Guidelines”
“Expressing but Not Defending”

Session 20200220

“Giving People the Power to Hurt You”
“The Next Step in Relation to Differences: The Importance of the Individual and Following YOUR Guidelines”
“Expressing but Not Defending”

Thursday, February 20, 2020 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael), Debbie (Tamarra) and Philip (Paetre)

ELIAS: Good morning!

PHILIP AND DEBBIE: Good morning! (Both laugh)

ELIAS AND DEBBIE: (Both laugh) What shall we discuss?

PHILIP: Actually, we had such a good conversation with Mary, I’m good. (Elias laughs)

DEBBIE: Elias, we are engaged in our creation. We’re continuing, getting more intense, yet trying to keep it simple and using all our tools and relaxing my body consciousness. Both of ours are having reactions, paying attention. A new flavor in this is the idea… I realize I’d gotten away from the genuine idea that other people are creating their reality and slipped back into that “but, but, but” defensive position. We’re trying to move through this next piece here we got today of where I’m trying to express from is the idea of just doing that, expressing, even though it feels like defending, because we seemingly under this construct have to defend ourselves, and really trying to really keep it simple. So, if I remind myself again of different realities, not doing the “but, but, but” and shouting into someone else’s ship, we have this new piece now that I’ll do my expression, keep moving in that direction of accepting the realities of others’ perception on this shared subject matter, if you will. And now I have this extra piece, and to see where and if I feel any threat that an outside source—in this case the State of Michigan—this idea of scary words, investigations and felonies and criminal behavior is on the table now. I’ve pulled that into here. And the idea of how to continue moving in ease. We’re relying a lot on the last session regarding the helicopter issue, I’ll call it, where it could be just as simple as expressing, creating a platform—in that case, it was a contract—and then delegating it off, and then stop the concentration. Would you speak to my assessment of what we’re doing now and if that’s clear and if there’s any tweaking we need to do?

ELIAS: Now; first of all, I would ask you the first question, which would be what is your assessment of what you are presenting to yourself?

DEBBIE: Identifying differences without steamrolling over what I’m showing myself in my own opinions, my own signals, trying to define what the communications are from those signals and keeping myself at ease.

ELIAS: I would say that that is a part of it. I would definitely say that yes, you are actually including differences, but you were already presenting differences to yourselves, and you had already begun with giving yourselves examples of significant differences, and therefore that you have already generated that so that you are already aware of that. What is the new piece?

DEBBIE: Ah! Well, it’s presenting as the idea of outside authority, and I’ll call it extreme authority, that someone is going to have to judge what I have done.

ELIAS: Precisely.



PHILIP: Yes, and I was going to add—

ELIAS: And the fear that that generates AND the fear and anticipation of the possibility that that authority can hurt you.


ELIAS: Therefore, now in addition to difference, now you are presenting to yourself another very significant piece, that there is this piece that there are some parts of your reality that you still view as you aren’t necessarily entirely creating, that there are people and institutions in your reality, in your world, that have power, and that in that power they have the power to create some of your reality and to actually hurt you.

And you are correct. They do have power. Why? Because you give it to them. Therefore, they do have power. It isn’t that they are powerless; they aren’t, because you have given them significant power, and you continue to give them significant power. And that is how they are able to hurt you, because you have given them that power.

Therefore, this is another very significant piece. The first piece was about differences, and people creating very different realities from your own, and being able to recognize that. The next piece in this direction, in this puzzle, is that there are people and situations and institutions that can be [inaudible] by people with those differences, and those people with power can frighten you, can control you, can hurt you.

And what does that do? That puts you directly back in the type of situation that you might have experienced as a child, that as a child you are smaller than and weaker than adults. They are larger and they are stronger than you, and you depend on them to protect you, to keep you safe, to guide you, but they can also turn and they can hurt you. They can dictate to you and they can hurt you, because they are bigger and they are stronger. And this is the same situation, the same type of expression. And you think that being an adult that you don’t have those types of situations any longer because you are an adult now, and therefore another person can’t hurt you in that capacity, but they certainly can because you are still giving power to other people in the same manner that you give power to your parents.

Now, in that, those people that you give power to are very similar to your parents, because they also are the people that you look to, to protect you, to keep you safe and to guide you. But they also can turn, and they can hurt you. But it isn’t a matter of them turning; it is a matter of who you give your power to, and who you give permission to, to create some of your reality, and what part of your reality you are allowing them to create, and whether you allow them to create a part of your reality that actually hurts you.

This isn’t a matter of karma, so to speak. This isn’t a matter of thinking in any capacity, “Did I do something that warrants this? Did I do something that perhaps I deserve this?” This isn’t about that. This isn’t about you being wrong or you doing something that was wrong or you deserving to be in this type of position.

This is that next step in relation to differences, that next step that puts you in a position of looking at what you are creating and what you give away to someone else to create.

Therefore, in our previous conversation, do you remember the boat and shouting to someone else in their boat? Do you remember that?



ELIAS: (Laughs) Yes. And now, in this, this is a matter of recognizing that now you are shouting to the other person in the other boat to jump to yours and steer yours.

DEBBIE: The other boat in this case would be the legal imagery?

ELIAS: Yes. What you are figuratively doing is shouting to them, “Quickly! Right now! Jump into my boat and steer it. Right now!”


ELIAS: “Because right now, I am paying attention to you, and right now I am giving my power to you.”

DEBBIE: Elias, that would be in our actions of writing these I’ll call it defense statements, explanations?


DEBBIE: I’m trying to define, because it feels I’m watching it. Because am I expressing what, like I said, I need to, because I am being quote-unquote put on the defense? Or is it not necessary? Does my own energy just stand on its own? Otherwise I feel like I’m trying to convince this outside authority to please see it my way, inviting them into my boat: “Please steer me where I want to go and get out of this.”

ELIAS: Precisely. Precisely.

Now, this is, in a manner of speaking, the tricky part, because it is a matter of you expressing yourself. It isn’t a matter of do nothing. Therefore, it is a matter of you expressing yourself but not defending yourself. (Pause)

Can you even see the difference?

DEBBIE: Well, I was able to define the two pieces as we’re doing this, and the only thing that I’m really relying on, which is unfamiliar, is how it feels so subtly different when we begin expressing and then when it moves into defending.

ELIAS: Now, let me express to you that if you are asked a question, then you can be expressing yourself in relation to answering the question. When you move into offering explanations that haven’t been asked for, that is defending.

DEBBIE: And asking for them to judge whether I was right or wrong.

ELIAS: Correct. Correct. And even holding that perception of them judging whether you are right or wrong, that they have that power and that you are waiting for them to do that. It is a matter of you holding the perception unwaveringly that there is nothing to judge, that you are right. Because you already believe that, correct? Or are you questioning yourself?


DEBBIE: I’m correct.

PHILIP: Correct.

DEBBIE: I’m being correct in that. I do wobble when I start to invite in what we determine is my golden ticket of making sure everybody else is okay with my decisions. I’m able to define that wobble.

ELIAS: And that is the point. Yes. That is definitely a wobble. That is definitely you moving in a moment of questioning.

Now, I would say that, let me express to you that having a moment in your expression and sharing that with your partner and perhaps even asking your partner for his opinion is not necessarily wobbling and is not necessarily moving in the direction of doubting yourself. That can be simply an expression of asking for more input with your partner because you recognize that he has a different perception than you; he has a different perspective. Therefore, his response may actually add something to what you are already expressing or something you hadn’t considered yet. Therefore, that is different. But if you are moving in a direction, so to speak, of looking in every direction and asking, “What do you think?” and “What do you think?” and “What do you think?” and in that, being almost panicked because you don’t trust your own expression, that is different.


ELIAS: But I want to express to you that acknowledgement that if you are sharing with your partner and you are asking for your partner’s opinion of a particular scenario, that isn’t the same as doubting yourself. That is simply seeking out and asking for more information.

DEBBIE: And I have seen where I have done that, and I didn’t really bring it home to me until I saw my partner do it, which was a clear avenue, clearer than what I was doing, even though I did have a knowing but I hadn’t acknowledged it yet. So, when I was, "Why? What was my motivation when I was sharing with others?"—precisely what you were describing. And like I said, it really brought it home when I had a signal when I saw my partner do it with one of his children and I’m realizing that’s what I was… It was too subtle for me, but I did have a knowing that I was doing that, in my motivation to get outside support to reinforce the idea that what I had done was okay.

ELIAS: Correct.


ELIAS: Correct.

DEBBIE: And so my idea of—you know, with Mary we do also, I believe for the most part we use her also as an input, the way we interact with our situation. But I am very clear now. I’ve shown myself this last week how my motivation and my signals from that to share this, to make us right and somebody else wrong, was just going in that direction and actually bringing to me what I don’t want here.

ELIAS: Now, I would also clarify in that. Understand that you are generating a process. Therefore, in a realistic capacity, I would say to you that that is part of the process. I definitely acknowledge to you that you ultimately want to move in a direction in which you aren’t expressing that you are right and someone else is wrong, but I would also say that in many situations, that is one of the first stages of the process, in which you actually DO express that you are right and someone else is wrong, because it helps you to define what the situation is: what is it that the other individual is doing that you perceive as wrong? It also helps you to define your own behavior, because your assessment of someone else doing something wrong is based in your guidelines. Therefore, it also helps you to be clear in recognizing what your guidelines are, therefore what would be wrong for you. Are you understanding?

DEBBIE: I’m with you.

ELIAS: Therefore, don’t dismiss that first part of the process in which you actually do express that opinion that you are right and the other individual is wrong, because that is precisely that: part of the process. And what many of you incorporate a tendency to do, which is what confuses you in many situations, is you skip steps. And in that, let me say to you, regardless of how self-aware you are or how much you move in a direction of being intentional and that you are self-directing, you still engage steps. They become much more automatic and therefore you do them much more quickly, but when you skip steps you convolute the situation. Therefore, it is important to know that this is a step in the process, having that automatic response that something that another individual is doing is wrong. Because that is you communicating to yourself, “This is my guideline, therefore I am informing myself about what is wrong for me.” And that aids you to not match energy. Do you understand?


PHILIP: I’m getting there.

DEBBIE: Yes. Can you say it one more time? (Elias chuckles) Or I’ll try. So, if I—

ELIAS: If you [inaudible]. That is natural and automatic, is that the first thing that you do is look at the outside situation.

PHILIP: Yes. That makes sense. Yeah.

ELIAS: Because that is what is affecting you. That is what is impacting you, is whatever the outside situation is. And it is either directly or indirectly impacting you, and you assess that very quickly. You assess, is this directly affecting me or is this indirectly affecting me? If it is directly affecting you, then the impact is greater. And in that, you are assessing the strength of how it is impacting you. Therefore, your opinion is stronger when it is directly affecting you. You have an automatic response of, what the other person is doing is wrong.

Now; in that, remember: when you have the opinion that someone else is doing something wrong, that is precisely in your own guidelines. Your guidelines are what create those opinions. In that, what you are expressing is that someone else is wrong because they are doing something that you wouldn’t do.

Now; the next step in that is that you realize that piece: “This is my guideline. I wouldn’t do that.” Therefore, it is a matter of recognizing: “This is what is guiding me.” Therefore, not reacting to the other individual but responding in relation to your guidelines—not doing the same thing that the other person is doing, because that is matching energy. That is you not paying attention to your guidelines, but then simply following a feeling and paying attention to the other individual and reacting to them in kind. And that is matching energy.

Are you understanding?



ELIAS: Do you see how your opinion of the outside source is your first expression about your guidelines, what guides your behavior? Your opinion is defining: “That is what I perceive as wrong, and the reason I perceive it as wrong is because I wouldn’t do that.” And then being able to acknowledge that as your guideline and following that, rather than reacting to the outside source and doing the same as that source is doing and therefore matching energy.

Now; how could you be matching energy in this type of situation? You already know, or you have a reasonable idea of, the players in the scenario, and you have already generated the opinion that what they are doing is wrong. But how could you move in a direction in which you aren’t necessarily paying attention to your guidelines and then move in a direction of reacting and matching energy? How do you do that? By being afraid and giving away your power. Because what is the other individual doing? What initiated this?


ELIAS: Precisely. The other individual is not expressing their power but has given their power to those authorities to speak for them, [inaudible] them, because they already feel powerless. Therefore, in that, they can’t accomplish what they want themself. Therefore, they have already moved in that direction. And if you react in defense and in fear, you are doing the same thing. Therefore, you are matching energy rather than looking at the situation, expressing to yourself that first step, “This is wrong,” and then recognizing, “What is it that’s wrong? Why am I expressing that this is wrong? Because I wouldn’t do this. Why wouldn’t I do this? Because I wouldn’t behave in that manner of engaging some other source to attack for me. Because I don’t actually feel threatened by this person, therefore I don’t feel the need to engage that outside source or any type of outside source to attack for me.”

That is what is happening. The other individual has engaged an outside source to attack for them. The other individual has engaged the guard dog to turn on you. But it is your guard dog also! You use the same guard dog to protect you and to make you safe.

Therefore, in that, you can either move in the direction of the dogfight, or you can move in the direction of expressing, “No, I think I will throw the dog a piece of meat and it will be happy. It will continue to serve and make me safe, and it won’t bite me.” And this is not a situation of the dog not having any teeth—it does have teeth, because you have given it teeth. And it can bite, because you have created it to give it that power. And you HAVE given it that power. Now it is a matter of balancing and giving it the power that you want it to have – not giving it any power to hurt you [but] the power to serve you—to serve you.

What is the slogan of your police officers?

PHILIP: "Serve and protect."

ELIAS: Precisely. SERVE and protect; SERVE and protect. But all of you have given them so much power, and you continue to do so, they aren’t serving you at all. And in that, you give them the power to bite you. And they will, if they have the opportunity, because they are encouraged to do so.

And now you have a situation in which one individual is encouraging them to do that and is saying, “Go! Attack! Bite! Go! Attack! Bite!” But the dog isn’t creating your reality—you are. And yes, you created it as being a part of your reality, but you get to choose what behavior it expresses in relation to you because you are the one that has the power. Therefore, you either give it to them or you don’t.

And I know that is sounding somewhat simplistic and that it isn’t as easily expressed as I am expressing it, because you are so accustomed to giving it power and because you do it automatically, and because in doing it automatically and in giving it so much power, you are afraid of it. You are afraid of what it can do.

I would say to you it is no different than incorporating a Rottweiler that weighs 150 pounds and has very large teeth and is 150 pounds of sheer muscle and power. But with all that muscle and power, that same Rottweiler can be gentle and cooperative and loving and can be coexisting with you in a very comfortable capacity – or it can drag you down the street. But it is your choice which it does.

And even if you are walking with it comfortably and quietly down the street, and someone else is yelling and screaming, trying to egg it on, it doesn’t matter. Because who is holding the lead? Are you holding the lead, or is the other person holding the lead?

This, my friends, is very timely, and it is the next step beyond the presentment of difference. And actually, I would say that you are moving very quickly that you presented this to yourself that fast.

PHILIP: Elias, I’m trying to think in pragmatic terms of how to move forward now. Now as you know, I’ve spent the morning preparing documents, but let me back up a little bit more. We made a decision to turn this over to our attorney.

ELIAS: Very well.

PHILIP: Which was a good decision, I still think.

ELIAS: I agree.

PHILIP: And we had the attorney contact the representative from the state, and got a list of things that the state was requiring of us: documents, proofs, statements, that type of thing.

ELIAS: Therefore, they had a request.


ELIAS: Correct?


ELIAS: They asked.

PHILIP: Yes. So—

ELIAS: And you are doing what?

PHILIP: I am collecting the requested documents.

ELIAS: Very well.

PHILIP: And secondarily, I have been preparing an explanation for various requested documents, and I am overriding my own intuition to just plain give them what they asked for and nothing more, in writing these explanations.

ELIAS: And do you know why you are doing that now?

PHILIP: Because I'm afraid.

ELIAS: Precisely. Precisely. Because you are following the feeling of fear. Fear isn’t a state of being; it is a feeling. It is an anticipation of future events.


ELIAS: That is fear. And in that, what you are doing is following that feeling, and what that means is you are allowing that feeling to tell you what to do. And—

PHILIP: Yes. And it sounded very pragmatic. Please continue.

ELIAS: And I understand. But in that, it is a matter of asking yourself, “Do you believe you have done something wrong?” If your answer is “No. I believe that I have done nothing wrong. I believe that I have been engaging the situation to my best ability and I have been engaging the situation in a manner that I believe has been the most responsible in relation to the care of this individual and their estate or their belongings."

Now; if you believe that you have not expressed wrongdoing, then there is no reason for you to be defensive. You are being defensive as a reaction – which is understandable – because someone has accused you. And the automatic reaction to accusation is to be defensive.

Now; in that, as soon as someone accuses you, even in that defense you immediately – to yourself or outwardly – express either that you are guilty or you aren’t. And if you aren’t, then in that, you maintain your trust in yourself and in your expression that you aren’t wrong and that you aren’t guilty. And in that, you don’t have to defend yourself. It doesn’t matter what the system is. (Chuckles)

Let me express to you in this manner, my friends. You think that your justice system operates on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. And you perceive that in these types of situations in relation to child abuse or parental abuse that you are guilty until proven innocent. I would say that in relation to any so-called protective or justice situation, none of them are protective or justice, and they are ALL that you are guilty until proven innocent.

And in that, the reason for that is because of precisely what we are discussing: because people automatically give their power to that surrogate parent, which is the law. In that, you generate this automatic fear that it will hurt you, and therefore you automatically move in the direction of reacting and following the feeling, which you are very, very, very accustomed to doing. And in that, you move in those automatic directions—par for the course. This is what you are accustomed to. This is what you have done over and over and over again for thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of years, for eons. And this is what you have done in YOUR entire lifes. But you have those thousands of years behind you, reinforcing it.

In this, this is the point. This is part of shifting: NOT doing that any longer, valuing the importance, to value the significance and the power of the individual, which is you. And re-evaluating your reality from the perspective of you being the most important piece. You are the most important player. And everything beyond that is secondary. You are creating your reality, and no one or no thing gets to do that for you unless you intentionally allow it. Because NOW you aren’t blindly moving through your reality—you are learning how to be self-directing. And this is part of it. You recognize the difference. Very well. individual is creating a very different reality from yours, but that doesn’t invalidate your reality. It doesn’t invalidate theirs. It doesn’t invalidate yours. It simply is different.

And because of this individual’s fear, they have engaged an action that is borne out of their fear. You engaged a response which was wise and which was a choice in being self-directing and in expression of you have nothing to defend. You gave it to your lawyer; you delegated it. But then you succumbed to the fear.

But all of this just started. Therefore, we are having this conversation, and you can nip that in the bud.

PHILIP: Thank you. (Elias laughs) Let me… I want to walk through one piece of this that came up while you were talking to us.

ELIAS: Very well.

PHILIP: It’s the idea that once this individual began this anonymous communication with this entity and the entity contacted us – or actually contacted Jim at his assisted care facility—and then the assisted care facility, one of the kind, caring people there, let us know that this individual was going to be showing up there. My immediate concern was that I went to an idea that people can manipulate other people’s perception, which can then… I DON’T have any misgivings about our justice system actually providing any justice or that it even works anything like that, so I don’t think it works on the basis of what’s true or what is actually right or wrong. So, then this individual contacted them, my fear was that they would be able to—through simple hearsay and sketchy, false evidence—would be able to sway this institution to find fault with us regardless of what we were able to present or regardless of what the truth is. And that’s had an… I realized when you were talking that even though we turned it over to our attorney, I still had a fear that this institution that I don’t trust to begin with could be manipulated in someone else’s favor and STILL hurt me. So, I felt a threat this whole time.

ELIAS: Correct. And I agree with you, and I acknowledge you in that. But now at this point, when you are discussing it with myself and you are thinking about the situation more clearly, not necessarily from the perspective of fear, because you recognize what fear is, that this is an anticipation of something that might happen in the future.

PHILIP: Right.

ELIAS: And in that, now that you are engaging conversation with myself and you are looking at the situation more clearly and looking at the pieces of the situation more clearly, then the expression of the fear dissipates.

[The timer for the end of the session rings]


ELIAS: And in that, you can look at it as a feeling—which, are you feeling that in this moment?


ELIAS: You are feeling afraid in this moment?

PHILIP: Oh, no. I’m sorry. No.

ELIAS: No. I know you aren’t, and I would say that is the point. You aren’t feeling afraid in this moment, because you are looking at the situation more clearly and seeing it for what it is.


ELIAS: In that, you don’t have to defend yourself. You don’t have to express explanations for everything.


ELIAS: You have been asked, you have been given a request to present certain information, and you have complied with that in response and have given that information. You don’t have to give additional information in explanation. THAT is the action of following the fear and defending yourself. There is nothing to defend. You aren’t guilty, therefore you have nothing to defend.

And in that, what I would say is the first direction that they move in is precisely what you expressed. The first direction that they move in is to speak to the father and ask him, “Are you safe? Are you afraid in your living situation, and do you feel safe?” That is what they ask him. And I would express that you already know what his answer is. Yes, he is safe, and no, he isn’t afraid. He may not even entirely understand the question, but that will be his answer. That was already his answer.


DEBBIE: And I identified I had a threat, you know, with anger from an anger reaction or an anger signal, but the threat was that I’ll call it all our hard work with our agencies we’ve been employing for such a long, arduous time—me, Phil and my dad and these others that complemented Dad’s movement—and I’m feeling so successful. And it is. It’s been rendered and it’s a success, and Dad’s choice is to move in this direction. I’m feeling so accomplished, I gave an outside source the idea that they could threaten that.

ELIAS: And can they?

DEBBIE: No, unless I allow it.

ELIAS: Precisely. Precisely.

DEBBIE: Thank you, Elias.

ELIAS: And let me also say to you that a part of this is your fear in relation to your father, that he isn’t cognitive enough to express in a realistic manner. But that also is not true.

DEBBIE: I agree.

ELIAS: He knows if he doesn’t feel safe, and he knows if he feels threatened.


ELIAS: And he doesn’t. He knows if he is not comfortable and if something is hurting him, and he knows that that isn’t happening.


ELIAS: He might get angry at times, but he isn’t expressing that he isn’t safe.

DEBBIE: Right.

ELIAS: And that is a significant piece. I would say to you, I would encourage both of you in the acknowledgment of everything that you have done and all the movement that you have engaged and all the people that you have involved. You have been quite open, and you HAVE involved other people. And therefore, they also know what you have been doing—what you do, what you don’t do—and in that, they also are aware of how you engage and your motivation.

Therefore, what I would say to you is rather than moving in a direction of being afraid and giving that power to sources that don’t need it, I would say to you instead, move your attention in the direction of acknowledging that you have nothing to be afraid of because you have nothing to defend, and that these outside sources, these people, this organization, they are doing their job, that someone has generated an accusation and they are following through with that, taking it seriously and doing their job. And in doing their job, they will find that the accusation is unfounded and that the factor that one individual is looking for something to be wrong doesn’t mean everyone is. One individual could have initiated that in that direction because THEY are looking for something to be wrong, but that doesn’t mean that everyone is looking for something to be wrong.

PHILIP: I believe this gives us a nice platform to move forward.

ELIAS: (Laughs) I agree.

PHILIP: Wow! It really knocked the tar out of both of us.

DEBBIE: Thank you, Elias.

ELIAS: I express to both of you tremendous encouragement and a support in remembering that this is the next step in relation to difference: learning to follow YOUR guidelines regardless of those differences, and not allowing difference to move you in a direction of fear. Because that is what difference has done from the beginning of time with your species, that when difference is expressed, people react in fear. This is what creates wars– not all wars, but many of them. This is what creates tremendous fear. This is what creates people not accepting, not understanding, not engaging, not communicating and not cooperating, is difference. And this I have been speaking of for quite some time, but it is only now that all of you are actually genuinely not only seeing these significant differences (chuckles) but are actually engaging them. And it is challenging, because there are many automatic expressions associated with differences, and this is one.

PHILIP: Thank you, Elias.

DEBBIE: Thank you. If this is Step Two, am I going to make it to the end? (Laughs)

ELIAS: You are exceptionally welcome. And as I expressed, you are moving tremendously quickly, or you wouldn’t have presented this type of a difference to yourself. But the factor that you did is actually encouraging, because you wouldn’t have presented this to yourself if you weren’t ready and if you weren’t able to address to it and engage it. Therefore, I would say to you, my friends, give yourselves credit that you are accomplishing and you are moving considerably fast.

DEBBIE: Thank you, Elias.

PHILIP: We are going to make it, right? (All laugh)

ELIAS: Yes. (All laugh)

PHILIP: Thank you. I had to hear that from somebody.

ELIAS: Yes, will we get it before we die? That is the question. (All laugh) And I express to you, definitely yes. (Laughs)

DEBBIE: A good conversation.

PHILIP: Yes. Thank you very much.

ELIAS: Especially in this type of rapid movement, you are almost guaranteeing yourselves that you will be accomplishing considerably well in your lifetimes.

PHILIP: Well, thank you.

DEBBIE: And right today and right now, everything is quite good enough.


ELIAS: There is the truth. (Laughs) And I second that tremendously. (Chuckles)

I express to both of you unwavering and continued love, and great support. Until our next meeting, go forth, be yourselves, be confident and don’t be afraid. In tremendous, tremendous friendship and affection to you both, au revoir.


(Elias departs after 1 hour 13 minutes)