Session 201906171

Session 201906171
“Disengagement: A Choice in the Moment"
“The Grieving Process”
“Final Focuses”

Monday, June 17, 2019 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jackline (Katie)

ELIAS: Good morning!

JACKLINE: Good morning.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) And what shall we discuss, my friend?

JACKLINE: I just am so happy to meet you, Elias. I want to thank you for doing what you do. That helps people like me to turn life inside out and see it as a reflection of my energy and me as a creator.

ELIAS: (Laughs) You are very welcome.

JACKLINE: I have a number of questions today, all relating to disengagement, to my relationship with my husband John, who passed away about eight or so months ago, and how it works. Briefly, you had told my friend Debbie that John and I had… She asked if we had had focuses together, and you had said 301. So, we just met a few years ago, and we were only together for a little less than three years. We lived together two and a half, were married for a year, but it was as if we had never not known each other, as if we were a part of each other. And it was wonderful, an experience of unconditional acceptance and love and joy. And when he passed away, it was as if a part of me pulled off, was just ripped out. And so there has been a process of grieving.

My first question is that John was not ill for that very long, about ten weeks or so, but he wanted to live ‘til age one hundred with me. He was so happy. He said to me, “I’m not leaving. I’m not leaving. I’m going to beat this, and I’m going to be here with you.” And so, I know we choose to disengage, but it seemed so clear that he didn’t want to leave, that he had much joy, that he wanted to continue here in the physical. And I wonder, how does that work? It’s not the only time I’ve seen it where somebody says, “I want to stay on,” but then they disengage.

ELIAS: I understand. And I would say that it is understandable that you would question an expression such as this. Let me say to you that the choice about death is not necessarily what most individuals think it is. It definitely is a choice, but it is also definitely a choice in the moment.

Now, I concede that many, if not most, individuals choose a method that leads them in the direction of death, but the actual choice is generated in a moment.

Now, what is significant to understand or to recognize about that moment is that when the individual presents that moment to themself, all emotional factors, in a manner of speaking, disappear. There is no pull in either direction. There is no pull in the direction of remaining in physical focus, and there is no pull in disengaging either. It is a very neutral position at that moment when you decide whether to disengage or not. And in that, it isn’t a matter of having a mission to continue, or because you are so connected and you are so in love, or that you have individuals around you that you love very much. Those factors—you are aware of those factors, but they don’t have any emotional pull in that moment. In that moment, in that time framework that an individual presents the actual choice to themself to disengage, you are definitely very clearly aware of your life in physical focus, you are aware of the different factors that are important to you, you are aware of all your family and friends, but there is no emotional attachment in that moment.

In relation to other, which would be the disengaging aspect, that is entirely unknown. You don’t know what lies ahead of you in that, and it simply is a matter of which direction is more curious in that moment. Therefore, an individual can be engaging a method and be ill or be moving in a direction of death, but they can be fighting that and they can be expressing determination to not be disengaging. And some individuals do move in that direction and choose not to disengage. Some individuals do choose to disengage.

It isn’t a matter of that it is inconsistent with what they are doing in fighting to remain in focus. It is simply a matter of in that moment of generating that choice and the recognition that there is no pull in either direction; it is simply a matter of what might hold more curiosity in that moment. It isn’t in any capacity discounting of an individual’s love and caring and importance in any relationship that they have—that isn’t discounted at all. But their curiosity to explore in that moment may be stronger than their curiosity in exploring more of what they already know.

JACKLINE: I have… Thank you for that, Elias.

ELIAS: You are welcome.

JACKLINE: I have spoken with John, which ,it’s... I sense his energy, I feel his energy, and the words come kind of as a translation as I would hear them from that energy, but I’ve asked him why he left, and I guess it was kind of similar because he said he had things he wanted to do or that he needed to do, and that the relationship that we had was an amazing experience that tied his entire life together, and in that time –he was about eighty-four – it just was a completion of joy. So, I understand what you're saying that it does not in any way discount and that it was a choice he made to go on and do maybe something he would be interested or curious about.

But I’m wondering also, because I’ve heard from other teachers that our lives are designed. We may have a theme with certain event posts, certain things that we have chosen to experience, consciousness has chosen to experience and can respond to. So, is there a pre-agreement that we make that there will be a certain time or certain windows of time when we would choose during the course of the focus life to disengage? And are there things that we have agreed to do upon the initiation of this physical focus?

ELIAS: What I would say to you is in relation to this physical focus, you do incorporate an intent, which is a general theme that you want to explore. It isn’t tremendously specific, although you do generate very specific avenues in that exploration in relation to that general theme.

As to are there agreements or [are] there designated time frameworks that you would be inclined to disengage? No. That is definitely a choice that an individual generates in the moment. There are general pools of probabilities that an individual creates before they enter this physical reality, but that is also very general. It isn’t a matter of predestination. It isn’t a matter of faith. It isn’t a matter of you choosing specific directions to engage and to experience before you enter into this focus. It isn’t mapped in that manner, because you choose the probabilities that you engage in the moment.

Therefore, everything that you experience in your lifetime is… It is created as you move through your life. It is all created moment by moment.

Now, I will express that you do choose some general directions, and I will also say to you that you definitely do incorporate desire in every focus, in every lifetime. And in that your desire is, generally speaking, the engine that drives you. And in that, it doesn’t necessarily move you in directions of everything positive; it simply drives you in directions of what are ultimately to your greatest benefit.

Now, that can be accomplished in many different manners, including manners that might be uncomfortable at times. And ultimately, it leads you in the direction of your desire and, as I expressed, you do enter into each lifetime with a general intent which you do follow for the most part, which does create your value fulfillment in any particular lifetime.

But I would also say that in relation to that, yes, you generally do manifest with other individuals that you have manifest with before and that you engage repeatedly with. I would also say that with each individual in relation to their value fulfillment, they may be stepping outside of their original pool of probabilities, and they may in doing so meet other people that they wouldn’t have necessarily automatically met in a particular lifetime. And I would say that that would definitely be the situation in this relationship, and this is the reason that you didn’t necessarily meet or engage or involve yourself with the relationship until much later in your lifetime.

But in that, this is also, in a manner of speaking, a testament to nothing is set in stone, you always create probabilities in the moment, everything is a matter of choice, and you are never limited in your choices in relation to what you explore and what you experience in physical focus.

And in this, I would say that both of you somewhat stepped out of your pool of probabilities and chose to meet each other at that point, in which you hadn’t engaged a lifetime with this individual, not in this focus, but it also has been an important part of each of your value fulfillment.

JACKLINE: Well, I know it has for me, because I’ve had a theme through my life in relationships, a belief that I’d be betrayed in one way or another. I always felt that I was worthwhile but that other people didn’t recognize it. And with this relationship, it was an experience for me of such unconditional love that it’s a model of how I can love myself, really.

ELIAS: I would express a very strong agreement, and I would say to you that it was a very beneficial experience and relationship that you incorporated.

JACKLINE: And it’s true that we had very different lives. He was a naval officer and had spent a couple-plus decades in the military service, and there were many differences in perspective, and yet I want to say that the physicality and energy was so resonant, and the closer we were together, it was exponentially resonant. And it was a wonderful, wonderful experience.

And even the grieving is an amazing experience. I wanted to ask your thought on this grieving process, because for me, I know I can communicate with him, or I believe I can. I do. I know that he’s very happy. I am very grateful for the experience, but the grieving and the tears and the tears feel as if it is a physical release from the attachment. And I want to let that process go, but I don’t want to hinder my participation in my life, and I just wondered what your thoughts are on the situation as my grieving process goes.

ELIAS: What I would say to you, my friend, is that is actually very understandable. And I would say to you that you are not the only individual that entertains those types of ideas.

Let me say to you that the grieving process is very specific. The process of grieving is one that is meant to move you in a direction in which you move to a point that you are no longer generating a tremendous distinction of loss.

Now, what that means is that when another being disengages, depending on how bonded you are, how close you are, what your experience is with that other being, it can be tremendously traumatic, in a manner of speaking, because it can actually generate that type of signal, that feeling that an actual part of you has been pulled away from you. Which in one capacity is actually correct, because you are experiencing that genuine interconnectedness, and therefore you have experienced that lessening—not entirely a lack of, but a definite lessening of separation. And then when that being disengages, you experience momentarily, or temporarily, an extreme separation. And that can be very affecting, and it can be extremely uncomfortable.

Now, what happens from that point is that you begin this process of grieving, which is a process of from that moment moving forward to a point in which you are no longer bothered. That is the important part: you are no longer bothered by that loss, because you recognize that it isn’t actually a separation. It’s only a matter of perception that creates that factor of separation, but other than that, you are still equally as connected and involved and interactive, but in a different capacity. But that doesn’t mean that you are separate. It doesn’t mean that you are any less connected.

Now, what happens with individuals at times, especially if they are very bonded and very connected to that other being, is that there becomes this element of perception that if you stop crying, if you stop weeping, if you stop missing, then you are somehow betraying the relationship; that you should forever after be expressing in this manner because that is the indicator—that is, in a manner of speaking, the proof of how important this individual is to you, how important the relationship is to you and has been to you, and how close and engaging the relationship is. But in actuality, the whole point of grieving is to move you in that direction to the point in which you realize that there isn’t the separation that you think there is, that you aren’t any less connected and you aren’t any less interactive; you are simply interactive and connected physically in a different manner, in a different capacity.

JACKLINE: I do feel that way. It feels as if the grieving, which has gone through its own process, is a visceral thing, an actual physical release of the need for the physical attachment.

ELIAS: Yes. I very much agree.

JACKLINE: Okay. Because the body is impressed with the energy of the attachment.


JACKLINE: It’s just that it’s gone on for… I didn’t think it would keep going on and on.

ELIAS: And it is very understandable. And I would express to you that that can be considerably difficult, because you are occupying a physical reality. The body consciousness is very responsive to the corporeal aspects of your reality. And in that, one of the strongest aspects of your body consciousness and of your input in physical reality [is] your senses. And in that, your senses input information to you in very absolute capacity. Therefore, when they can’t connect physically to something, they are also inputting to you that absolute information that that thing is gone. And that can be very difficult to maneuver through. That is the reason that you have a grieving process.

JACKLINE: Mm-hm. That takes time.

ELIAS: Yes, it does. And it incorporates varying degrees of time for the body consciousness to adjust to this different type of action and this different relationship that is developed, because it must be engaging with that without senses.

JACKLINE: Mm-hm. Got it.

ELIAS: Therefore, that is definitely an adjustment. And let me also express to you that another factor in this is that the more physically interactive you have been with another being when you were physically together, the more time it generally incorporates for the body consciousness to readjust.

Now, that can be expressed in many, many different manners. If you incorporate a tremendous amount of time with the other being, if you are physically touching the other being considerably, if you are engaging your senses tremendously with the other being, that generates a significantly difficult adjustment for the body consciousness. And there are many individuals that may be incorporating a significant length of time with a partner or with another individual, but they may not necessarily be engaging in a consistent physical expression. And I am not speaking about sexual; I am merely expressing in relation to your senses. And your sense of touch is significant, because that inputs very different information to your body consciousness and to you. And therefore, when that is taken away, that creates a significant difficulty for the body consciousness to adjust to, and it does incorporate more time.

JACKLINE: That explains then. It wasn’t so much the length of time we were together, but we were constantly touching, because the information, the energetic information that came from the touch was what the connection was, the memory was. And it was … There is even now, from my sense of energy, a real connection with him, but it was very, very physical when we were together, constantly physical, and just a wonderful, wonderful experience. And it didn’t matter than we had lived totally separate lives or even had different political or religious philosophies. It didn’t matter at all, because the energy was in such accord.

ELIAS: Yes. I am understanding. And that creates that extreme, that trauma that you experience in the loss.

JACKLINE: Yeah. A merging of energy. There were times when I felt… I never left my individuality, but I felt that I was merged with his energy. Just an amazing, amazing experience.

ELIAS: I would definitely be acknowledging of that. And I would express to you, my friend, that what you have experienced since then is tremendously understandable. I would also say to you that it is very natural that you likely will incorporate time frameworks for years in which you may have moments that you may be tremendously emotional in those certain moments. But generally speaking, the tremendous trauma of that separation can very much dissipate and you can let that go, and it doesn’t betray your relationship at all. In actuality, when you can actually move to that point, when you can let that piece of the experience go, when you can allow yourself to not be so sad, that actually, in a manner of speaking, opens a door in which you can be more interactive.

JACKLINE: Mm-hm. It’s approaching, but it’s still… there’s still a process I’m going through.

ELIAS: I very much understand. And it is not a process that you can rush through. And let me express to you, it is possible to stop that process before its time, but it is not definitely not advisable because it is damaging.

JACKLINE: Okay. I don’t… I just let it flow.

ELIAS: Excellent, excellent.

JACKLINE: I have a couple other questions about the disengaging.

ELIAS: Very well.

JACKLINE: When we disengage, is it true that we’re still, we’re nonphysical but we’re still in the earth dimension?

ELIAS: For a time framework. It is very brief. The energy remains in your physical dimension, your physical reality, for approximately two weeks in YOUR time.

Now, understand that for the being that has disengaged, it is no time. It is a blink, literally. But time in your physical dimension moves slower.

JACKLINE: Okay. What dimension…once that period is up, is it still in the dimension what you would call the earth but just the nonphysical side, or what is the dimension?

ELIAS: No. It isn’t—Let me express to you, dimensions are designated to physical realities.


ELIAS: Other areas of consciousness would not necessarily be identified as dimensions, so to speak.

Now; when you blink in nonphysically, when you blink out of physical reality, you aren’t actuality entering into a dimension. You are blinking into nonphysical existence, let us say.


ELIAS: Now, in that, you aren’t actually in a place, but for a time framework – and it varies with different individuals – for a time framework the individuals continue to express perception and objective awareness.

Now; what that means is that individual will continue to generate objective reality. They don’t remember their death for a time framework, and therefore they immediately begin creating reality that appears to be physical, appears to be the same as what they are accustomed to. Everything will appear to be precisely the same: their home, their community, their world, everything around them, the structures, the buildings, the furniture—everything. Everything will appear to be solid, to be physical and to be the same as their reality that they disengaged from, except the one piece that will be missing: whatever led to their death. Therefore, if the individual was sick or infirm, that will not be a part of their reality. Everything else will be almost identically the same.

Now, there is an addition to this reality that they create, this physical appearance of reality, is that there are these manifestations in their reality that are designated as holes.

Now, they aren’t necessarily immediately noticed. The individuals don’t automatically see these holes. They don’t notice them at all. Eventually, they do begin noticing them. And in that, these holes are not something that you could look through. They simply seem to be, in a manner of speaking, black holes in different areas of their reality. Therefore, there might one in the floor, or there might be two or three in the walls in their home, or there might be one in their vehicle. They will seem to be random. What these are are actual avenues in which energy passes through from the physical dimension to the area of consciousness that the individual is occupying, but they don’t notice it because they are creating the images of people and they believe that the energy is coming from the people, which is what they are accustomed to. Eventually they begin to notice discrepancies, and they begin to notice the holes and they begin to notice that energy passes through these holes. And eventually they begin to notice some oddities in their reality, in their world, that everything is predictable and that no one ever disagrees with them. That is also very purposeful and eventually leads them in a direction in which they do remember their deaths. And by that time, there is no trauma associated with that memory, because they have already generated a transition through continuing to express objective imagery, and therefore, when they do remember their deaths, they very easily accept that.

Now, at that point there [are] some obvious choices that the individual can engage. At that point, they become aware that they can continue to be exploring that physical imagery, they can continue to create physical imagery, they can continue with that objective awareness and perception, or they can discontinue with that. They can move in a different direction and explore some other reality that they choose. When they choose to explore other realities, then they move through a nonphysical transition period, which moves rather quickly, in which they shed the objective awareness, they shed perception, and they shed all the beliefs that were associated with their previous reality.

JACKLINE: Do they remember it?


JACKLINE: Related to my communication with John, is there any chance that I am hindering him by connecting to his energy and communicating with him?

ELIAS: Absolutely not.

JACKLINE: Okay. In the beginning, when I would see or sense his energy without the physical, he would try on different bodies. I mean, I’d see him in different bodies—I don’t mean he appeared physically, but in my mind. And now he doesn’t have a body. He’s not in a body. At least, it’s just a pure energy. And when I’ll say, “I’ll miss you,” he’ll say, “I don’t miss you 'cause there is no separation. I’m never separated from you.”

ELIAS: Correct.

JACKLINE: So, it’s different. I’m still in that—I still have some sense of separation.

ELIAS: I very much understand. And what I would say to you is, congratulations in how well you are interacting and how well you are experiencing that. That is definitely to be acknowledged.

JACKLINE: Oh, thank you. And I think that the shift that we’re in the process of allows for it to be easier to connect through the veil and make that communication.

ELIAS: Yes, I definitely agree. I would express you are definitely correct in that. And that is a part of this shift in consciousness. It is part of what this shift in consciousness is doing, is allowing you to thin those veils and experience differently. And therefore, this is a part of shifting, is having the ability to be interactive with individuals that have disengaged from your reality but to know that you aren’t disconnected from them.

JACKLINE: Mm-hm. Elias, you have said, or you have told Debbie, through Debbie, that I am not a final focus. But my question is, when the final focus—I know there’s no time physically, but when there's a disengagement of the final focus, do all of the focuses then merge in identity?



ELIAS: No, no, no, no, no.

Now; let me explain. A final focus is simply a designated position. Therefore, what it is, what its position is, is the final focus is a signaler, just as the initiating focus is a signaler, that the final focus signals all the other focuses that it is time to disengage from this reality.

Now, that doesn’t mean that every other focus instantly disengages—they don’t. You disengage when you choose to disengage. But that once all of the focuses of that essence have disengaged from this focus, they don’t reengage.

Therefore, no more new focuses are created and engaging in this physical reality. While you are IN physical reality, you have the choice, continuously, to be creating more focuses in the reality or less focuses, taking away focuses, adding in focuses—you have that ability and that choice continuously.


ELIAS: Once the final focus signals all of the focuses that this is the disengagement time, then what happens is no new focuses are added from that point.


ELIAS: But it doesn’t interrupt any of your choices. The factor that you are not a final focus doesn’t mean that you remanifest. That would be redundant, because all of your focuses are occurring simultaneously. You don’t remanifest, but the final focus doesn’t interrupt any of your choices. Therefore, whoever is the designated final focus as your essence, that focus may be, let’s say hypothetically, at an age of ninety-two and is about to disengage. And another focus of your essence may be five. It doesn’t mean that the five-year-old will immediately die. That five-year-old will engage and live its life to whatever age it chooses, but it will then disengage as part of the mass exodus, so to speak.


ELIAS: Nothing, and no focus, absorbs into anything. You always incorporate your identity, your individuality, your sense of self, in a manner of speaking. You simply become more and more and more aware of your interconnection, that you aren’t singular.

JACKLINE: Isn’t it wonderful? Amazing.

ELIAS: (Laughs) I definitely agree. (Laughs)

JACKLINE: Do I have future focuses with John?

ELIAS: You do. (Laughs)

JACKLINE: And you had mentioned that in the relationship I have with him I likely stepped out of the probabilities, as did he. From your perspective do you have a thought on what the intent of the experience together with him would be, other than what I’ve already said?

ELIAS: What I would say to you is that what both of you, or each of you, incorporated in relation to creating this probability of meeting each other, engaging each other, in a manner of speaking, what the intention in that was, was to reestablish and reinforce trust in a much greater capacity.


ELIAS: And for you, in addition to the reestablishment and the reinforcement of that trust, I would say there was an additional piece adding to it in reestablishing your faith.

JACKLINE: Do you say space or safe?

ELIAS: Faith.

JACKLINE: S-p-a-c-e?

ELIAS: No. Faith.

JACKLINE: Oh, faith! Okay.

ELIAS: Yes. That faith is the expression of trusting what you don’t know and what you can’t see. And faith is future faith; trust is always [inaudible]. Therefore, they move hand in hand, and your trust that you have now can enhance the faith that you express in relation to the future and what you can’t see. Faith is beyond senses, and for many individuals in your reality, faith can be a difficult expression for them. And what I would say to you is, stepping outside of your pools of probabilities, both of you, gave you the opportunity to reestablish a stronger trust and to generate new aspects of faith.

JACKLINE: Hm. What a gift!

ELIAS: I definitely agree.

JACKLINE: Elias, the timer has gone off, and I don’t want Mary to tire out. I’m so grateful to meet you, to speak with you and interact.

ELIAS: I shall greatly be expressing my support and encouragement to you, my friend. And I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting. Congratulations in giving yourself such a wonderment in experience.

JACKLINE: Oh yes, yes, yes. (Elias chuckles) Thank you.

ELIAS: I express tremendous lovingness to you, my dear, as always.

JACKLINE: Oh, thank you. Me too!

(Elias departs after 1 hour)