Session 680


“Anger and Frustration”
“Elias’ Intention”

Wednesday, August 16, 2000
© 2001 (Private/Phone)
Participants:  Mary (Michael) and a new participant, Gerald.
Elias arrives at 11:50 a.m. (Arrival time is 14 seconds)

ELIAS:  Good morning!

GERALD:  Good morning!

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  And what shall we discuss this day?

GERALD:  Well, I’m going to leave that up to you.  From what I was talking to Mary about, you have all these agendas, so I’ll kinda go with the flow, and then we’ll find a flow within that.  How’s that?

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  Ah, an open direction!

GERALD:  Yes, and then we’ll probably find something within that.

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  Very well.  Shall we discuss the movement of individuals in relation to emotion, and this particular emotion which seems objectively presently to be affecting of many individuals, that which you identify as anger, in relation to its source emotion, which may be identified as frustration?

GERALD:  Okay.

ELIAS:  Very well.

GERALD:  So, let me go back to the premise again.  We’re gonna talk about movement in relation to the specific emotion of frustration or anger.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  You said frustration?

ELIAS;  Correct.

GERALD:  And when you say movement, tell me more about what you mean by movement.  What kind of action?  Thought action, physical action?  Tell me more.

ELIAS:  Both, for you do create movement in familiarity in association with this emotion that you identify as anger, correct?

GERALD:  Say that again?

ELIAS:  You, in general terms, do create movement in relation to this emotion that you identify as anger.

GERALD:  Okay, sure.  There’s always movement within every emotion, yes.  Okay, good.

ELIAS:  In this, you identify this particular emotion of anger as negative, and many individuals create a tremendous expression of conflict and confusion in relation to this particular emotion, and wish to be eliminating of this particular expression.

GERALD:  Okay, got it.  Yes, that is common for people.  I challenge myself — and this is a constant challenge — to once I identify it, to find out what ... you’re talking about movement, so I go in terms of, what am I not doing?  What is my expectation that I’m not expressing?  Because being ... trying to transform that into something else may or may not be more useful.  I want to explore that.  That’s interesting.

ELIAS:  Or....

GERALD:  What’s your thought on my thinking?

ELIAS:  Or, you may challenge yourself to be questioning in what you ARE creating and what movement you ARE engaging, rather than what movement you are NOT engaging.

GERALD:  Interesting.  Movement ... engaging or not engaging.  Hmm!  Give me an example, so I can think about it.

ELIAS:  You are presenting to myself the statement that you look to yourself and you question yourself in relation to what you are NOT expressing within yourself, what expectation are you NOT meeting.

GERALD:  Right.  That’s kinda what I think of as outside of me.  It kinda goes in and out, so to speak.  Yeah.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  I’m with you.

ELIAS:  Now; you may also challenge yourself in the questioning of, what expectation ARE you meeting and what ARE you accomplishing?

GERALD:  Ah, very good point!  Okay, that’s a useful distinction.

ELIAS:  For you ARE accomplishing and you ARE meeting an expectation in the creation of movement in this particular emotion of anger.

GERALD:  Ah, very good, very good.  Yeah.

ELIAS:  Let me express to you the inquiry of, as another individual may approach you in the subject matter of anger — and how they may be approaching this particular expression of emotion and eliminating their participation in this type of expression, for it creates conflict within them — what be your direction in response to another individual?  How shall you instruct them as to how they may be efficiently moving through the expression of anger....

GERALD:  Okay, got it.  First, you’re asking me a question?

ELIAS:  Yes!

GERALD:  Are you inquiring of me now?

ELIAS:  Yes.

GERALD:  Okay.  So someone is in that state, and you’re asking me, where do I go?  First of all, it goes back to what I try to do with myself.  My assumption is that this person has an expectation that’s unfulfilled, and they don’t know how to get it or they’re not getting it.  So the intention is to bring some kind of reflection as to, one, what is it you want?  The next thing, once they see that they have an expectation, what are they doing or not doing?  Is it an appropriate outcome?  The outcome may not be appropriate, because they have never really set the expectation in the first place.

Or, let’s go back to something you said before.  It may be that one of the other things they can do is to ask, what are they getting now that’s worth having?  And the thing is, the opportunity to move, and acknowledging that what they have and what they are getting already is what they want, may allow them to move out of that state.

Okay, those are my thoughts.  What are your thoughts on my thoughts?

ELIAS:  And what do you define as inappropriate behavior?

GERALD:  Oh ... in or an?  I don’t know if you said “inappropriate” or “an appropriate.”  Is this ... what did I say, hmm?

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Hey, words come in and out of my mind too quickly.  You’ll have to ... you may have to repeat.  What did you hear me saying?

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  You have identified that you engage another individual, attempting to be identifying behavior that may be inappropriate that you may alter.

GERALD:  Oh, inappropriate, yes.  I ask that because something we often have is outcomes or expectations.  It’s a thought, usually, of what we want that may or may not be appropriate, for whatever reason.  I never know until I hear it.  Is the outcome that the person wants worth having?  Is it considerate of themselves?  That’s part of what I listen for or how I know what I know, or even what I think I know.

ELIAS:  Ah, but these are key identifications in what you are expressing as base points in the identification of appropriateness.

GERALD:  Okay, tell me more about that.  Let’s explore that.

ELIAS:  This is the direction that many individuals move into in their association with this particular expression of anger — identifying the appropriateness of expressions or outcomes, if you will.

In this, you are viewing the surface expressions, and attempting to be altering an objective expression which is manifest surfacely, and not recognizing the underlying expressions which are occurring and motivating these surface expressions.

GERALD:  Okay.  Now, let’s go slow.  Let’s play with this for a moment.  I’m thinking that what you mean by external emotions or behavior ... I’m actually more interested in ... or maybe there’s another distinction that you’re talking about underneath all that, which I’m sure there is, but getting to it might be another thing.

My belief is that underneath all behavior or whatever ... here we have this person that’s angry or upset about something, frustrated.  There’s something that they want.  It’s a way of thinking.  So for me, I’m always looking at, what way of thinking do they have that’s leading to that expression, okay?

When I talk about the expression being appropriate or the behavior being appropriate, what I mean ... and I’d like you to comment on my assumptions here to these points.  I’m looking for the criteria that they’re using, the standards that they may be applying to themselves or to others that they may or may not be conscious of, leading to the current emotional state.  What are your thoughts on what I’m saying?

ELIAS:  I am understanding of what you are expressing....

GERALD:  What I’m looking for is, am I off-base with what you were talking about, the underneath?  You were going somewhere with that.

ELIAS:  Correct.  No, you are not off-base, so to speak.  What I am expressing to you is that behavior is merely a choice of expression, and the behavior itself is not right or wrong.

GERALD:  That’s accurate.  Good point!

ELIAS:  The perception is the influencing element which is manifesting....

GERALD:  The perception is the influencing element.  Is that what you just said?  I want to make sure I get that point.

ELIAS:  Correct.  ...which is manifesting the behavior.

In this, the behavior matters not, in actuality.  Therefore, attempting to be altering merely the behavior is futile, in a manner of speaking.

GERALD:  Yes.  I’m right there with you!

ELIAS:  Therefore, the expression of anger is an extreme in the outward expression of frustration.

GERALD:  Yeah.  Okay, good.

ELIAS:  Frustration is the outward expression or the objective expression of an individual within the moment that they are creating a narrowing of their perception, which limits their viewing of available choices.

GERALD:  Yeah.  Well said!

ELIAS:  Therefore, the behavior is essentially unimportant.

GERALD:  Right, because it’s where it emanates from that’s important.

ELIAS:  The individual may approach you, or you may approach yourself in this subject matter of anger, and the motivating force in why you shall wish to be eliminating this type of expression is that for the most part, this type of expression you view as uncomfortable.

GERALD:  Yeah, got it.  Yeah.

ELIAS:  Now....

GERALD:  So what’s ... now, let me give you my thought on that, okay?

ELIAS:  You may.

GERALD:  Now, what my theories are, of course, in terms of what I endeavor to do ... which doesn’t mean I’m always able to get there, because the challenge is being conscious when you’re there earlier!  Anyway....

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Because once you’re in it, it’s like a fish out of water, always difficult.  For me, it’s a challenge, if I’m working with a client and they’re in this state ... the first thing is, I have to make it okay to be them.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  And that is kinda what I see.  It’s almost like one of the first or simultaneous ... ‘cause I’m not sure of all the things that go on so quickly simultaneously.  It’s the first step that leads to, “Hey, it’s okay to be there, but now that I’m here, what do I want?”  It’s the thinking.  What are your thoughts on what I’m saying here?

ELIAS:  Correct.  In this, you have identified a base line in this direction.

GERALD:  What’s a base line?  I have no idea what you mean by that.

ELIAS:  This is the underlying expression and the underlying subject matter.

GERALD:  So, the base line would be the identification of what’s holding that state in place.  For example, one of the things that’s common to individuals when they’re in certain emotional states, and certain ones are good ones and certain ones are bad, and here we are in this uncomfortable state, and we think it’s bad or wrong or not good, but trying to get out of it is what sort of keeps us stuck.

ELIAS:  Correct.  Now; in this, first of all, if you are allowing yourself to be recognizing and acknowledging to yourself that what you are expressing is not wrong or bad, it is merely a choice of expression, you may allow yourself....

GERALD:  Okay, go back and repeat it.  I spaced.

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Hey, listen!  Are you aware you put people into a trance?  I’m having to learn all your language patterns here, okay?

ELIAS:  Ha ha!  I am quite aware! (Chuckling)

GERALD:  It’s like, I wish I could go into a room, and people would go into a wonderful, nice daze.  Anyway, so I’m having to kinda like ... I have to keep focusing here, so please go back and repeat.

ELIAS:  Very well. (Chuckling)

GERALD:  (Laughing)  Oh my gosh!

ELIAS:  In this, as an individual engages this expression of anger, there is an extreme in the manifestation of the emotion.

GERALD:  There’s an extreme of the station?  S-T-A-T-I-O-N?

ELIAS:  Manifestation.

GERALD:  Oh, manifestation.  Okay, yeah.

ELIAS:  Correct.  Now; in this extreme, the emotion becomes quite powerful, and many times is overriding of the thought process ...

GERALD:  Yes, most definitely.

ELIAS:  ... for the attention turns to the emotion, as it is engaging not merely a mental state, which it is, but it also is engaging your physical body consciousness.

GERALD:  Okay, got it.  So therefore ... okay, good.

ELIAS:  All....

GERALD:  So the emotional state, when you’re in that state to an extreme, turns off the emotional ... so you’re saying it turns off.  You’re not conscious of the thought process.

ELIAS:  It is not turning it off, but it is interrupting of it, and it may be quite clouding of your clarity....

GERALD:  So let’s go back to ... I think you’ve written, or you’ve stated ... since you don’t write, ha ha! (Elias chuckles)  The mind can only process so much, the conscious mind, and then it goes like off-line, although it’s still there ...

ELIAS:  Quite.

GERALD:  ... with thoughts and all that.

ELIAS:  Yes.

GERALD:  It has attentive ability.  It’s just like me listening to you.  I can process only so much on this conscious level at one time, and then there’s other levels that are going on.

ELIAS:  Quite, and you are quite receptive to sense data.

GERALD:  Yes.

ELIAS:  Now; in this, as you engage this extreme of emotion, you are also creating a tremendous input of sense data.  This also is interruptive of your thought process, and in this state, so to speak, you create a type of circle in which you continue to perpetuate the sense data input and the heightened emotion.

GERALD:  Yeah, so it kind of feeds on itself.

ELIAS:  Quite.

GERALD:  Yeah.  It’s almost like a panic state, and it’s like the letting go is in itself ... the letting go or making okay while one is in this ... let me give you an example.  Let’s see if I’m getting this.  When I am ... one of the practices I have ... I think we all have in life these things that we’re here to work on, like for me, not going into panic or fear.  I think fear state is very similar.

ELIAS:  Quite.

GERALD:  The nature of it — overwhelming sense data.  Certain things — not wanting to be there, and then trying to take some action to get out of it, but it’s got to be done in a certain emotional state.  One of the things for myself is, I have to practice moving to a different emotional state, and one can always move to different things by going through the emotional process for now, and then taking action out of that emotional state rather than staying stuck in the other state and taking action out of that.

ELIAS:  Ah!

GERALD:  Okay, how am I doing here?

ELIAS:  But now you identify another element, in your statement of movement in one direction rather than being stuck in the position of the anger.  This moves us once again to the identification that the anger is not bad.  It is an extreme in the expression of the emotion of frustration, but it is not bad.

GERALD:  I got it.  But you just said ... well, let me test this assumption.  I’m inferring what you’re saying, but you just said ... first of all, let me state my assumption again.  When I’m in those emotional states, the ability to create action — in terms of what I term useful action, which is obviously a qualitative judgment — is not as useful as when I go into another state of processing how it’s gonna work out, and then creating out of that.  So where is my base line, as you call it?  Where am I off?  Maybe it’s more of the same.  Maybe it’s judgment.  Maybe I’m doing something.  Help me understand.

ELIAS:  It IS involving of judgment.

GERALD:  Of course.  Everything involves judgment, does it not?

ELIAS:  Not entirely. (Grinning)

GERALD:  Okay, good.  Let’s explore that one too!

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  Now; in this, as you allow yourself within the moment to recognize that your expression is merely a choice and that it is not wrong, you instantaneously are affecting of the perception, which is affecting of what you are creating.

GERALD:  Okay, so let’s go back over that again.

ELIAS:  As you continue to identify that certain expressions of anger are bad or wrong, you create an underlying movement in energy.

GERALD:  Okay, got it.  Yeah.  Okay, so let’s talk about that.  What about that underlying movement?

ELIAS:  This underlying movement of energy perpetuates the very expression that you wish to not be continuing within.

GERALD:  Got it.

ELIAS:  For in this identification, you are expressing a lack of acceptance of self and a lack of acceptance of other individuals and of the situation.  You are creating a judgment, and in that judgment, you are perpetuating the intensity of the action.

Whereas, in the acknowledgment that you are expressing merely a choice of behavior, and that this behavior is not wrong — it is merely an expression — you acknowledge yourself and turn your attention to self.

One of the most perpetuating elements of anger is the projection of the individual’s attention outside of self; the projection of attention to a situation or another individual.

GERALD:  Okay, versus?

ELIAS:  Versus holding the individual’s attention upon self, and therefore allowing yourself to open your attention to more of your choices.

GERALD:  Okay. (Yawning)  So let’s go back to your earlier comment about, what am I getting right now?  One of the first things you did is, you poked holes in my thinking in terms of how I framed ... let’s see.  I’ve been processing here on multiple levels, and I can’t think about what the hell you said now!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  I’m sure I know the words you said, but in terms of the meaning....  Okay, so....

ELIAS:  Concerning movement and expectation.

GERALD:  Yeah, and coming back to self.  Okay, so I’m coming back to this distinction, focusing back to self.  The issue is that we focus outside of self.  Anger is always all about outside, and that’s what keeps it stuck, versus going inside and becoming aware of choices.  Good, let’s stay with that.  Let’s talk about the thinking that leads to getting out of that spiral, and moving from outside to inside to creating choices.  What does one say to themselves, or what might one say to re-focus?

ELIAS:  One may allow themselves, first of all, the acknowledgment that what they are expressing ...

GERALD:  ...is okay.

ELIAS:  ... is acceptable.

GERALD:  Yes, got it.  First step, which is very important.

ELIAS:  Once you have....

GERALD:  I really don’t have a problem with that.

ELIAS:  Once you have....

GERALD:  That’s not my issue.  I’m fine with getting pissed off!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Goddammit!  I want what I want!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!  Once....

GERALD:  Wow.  Well, maybe I’m not, ‘cause ... I mean, there’s kind of a double edge there.  ‘Cause like with my family, when I’m pissed off, you know, I don’t like being in the emotion necessarily, ‘cause it’s really unfair to people! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha!

GERALD:  So it’s like, I’m getting pissed off, and goddammit, you’re doing it to me!  Anyway, yeah, I get that.  Okay, go on.  I’m sorry.  Does it distract you to hear my sidebar comments?

ELIAS:  No. (Chuckling)

GERALD:  Okay, good.  You seem to handle it pretty well!

ELIAS:  Once you have allowed yourself the acknowledgment that this expression is acceptable, you may allow yourself to be moving your attention to self rather than focusing your attention upon another individual or a situation.

In this, as you turn your attention to self, you may allow yourself to be noticing what you are in actuality creating, in....

GERALD:  Okay, got it.  Okay, now we’re talking about consciousness of self, right, in action?

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Okay, I got it.  So, there’s like a light that comes on — and we’re needing a light — which presupposes a choice by virtue of that perspective.

ELIAS:  Correct.  You DO hold choices in ALL of these situations.

GERALD:  Always, yes.  Conscious is one thing, but I think awareness, or bringing to consciousness that one does have choice, is kinda one of the things that we’re talking about here.  Yes, we always do, yes.

ELIAS:  You are quite correct.

In this, this is the point, is to be familiarizing yourself with self, recognizing that you are creating a myriad of actions in this one expression of anger.

You identify objectively that you are engaging one action — you are angry, and you are expressing that anger.  You may identify what you assess as the cause of that anger, which for the most part, although not always, the cause is identified as some action which is occurring outside of you.  And as you become familiar with you and your automatic responses, which are requiring of no thought process....

GERALD:  No, not requiring of a thought process, not consciously so.  Automatic responses to me are the execution, at super faster speed than one can think about, of what they’re thinking about.

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  Which is not a thought!

GERALD:  Well, what is it then?

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  It is a movement of energy.

GERALD:  Ah, very good point!  Okay, good.  Excellent!  Well said!

ELIAS:  Thought....

GERALD:  So, it’s movement of energy.  One of the things that I’m constantly trying to struggle with are these distinctions in my work.  I don’t know if you overheard the conversation I had with Mary about the work I do, but I think you might have overheard that.  I’m joking here with you!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Yeah, and that’s okay! (Laughing)  I can’t help but screw around with you here! (Elias chuckles)  Okay, so here’s what I mean.  The distinction is energy.  Let’s talk about that.  So, when you’re not thinking, it’s like habit, okay?  Habit is like ... let’s say a habit might be, you’re driving your car, and you’re able to avoid a situation or hitting another car faster than you can think about it.  That is what you would call movement of energy.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Okay, good.  That’s a powerful concept!  How do we make the energy ... so if there’s a powerful way of thinking or being or non-thinking ... non-thinking thinking.  I call it non-thinking thinking, just for myself.  So, how do we create movement of energy where other things become habit, like something more useful, like ... okay, there is a judgment in there, isn’t there?  You’re talking about taking an emotional state — we’re talking about anger — which is occurring, and becoming conscious of it ... I don’t know.  What am I saying here?

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Okay, we’ll go back to it.  I’m always trying to think ... here’s where I go with this, Elias.  My focus ... as you’re talking to me, I’m looking at, how do I assist?  The work I do is assisting other people, like in panics or break-throughs or whatever they do, to be able to manifest more of what they think they’re going to do versus what they’re doing, and the first thing you have to do is to recognize and bring into consciousness, like what you’re doing with me.  So, I’m just trying to figure how to process this and how do I talk about it, not just with myself, but with others.

ELIAS:  Quite.

GERALD:  But I’m operating on multiple levels with you here.

ELIAS:  Quite, and this is the point, and why we are engaging this discussion.

GERALD:  And what is that point?  Tell me again! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  That you may be incorporating this information in relation to how you engage other individuals.

GERALD:  Yeah, but will they notice?  You know, the world around me lives in frustration, and frustration is the biggest barrier to being able to produce the actions that we say we want.  What’s your thought on what I’ve stated?

ELIAS:  Frustration may be quite motivating, for it is an indicator.

GERALD:  Yes, it is an indicator.  That’s all it is.

ELIAS:  It allows you to recognize that you are not allowing yourself to view all of your choices.

GERALD:  Yes, very much so, because it’s a narrowing of focus.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Yeah.  This is good.  It’s reminding me of some stuff.

ELIAS:  Now; habit is the manifestation of objective action in familiarity, which is not necessarily the expression of thought.  You need not be engaging thought to be creating movement.

GERALD:  That’s correct.  I’m very conscious ... I’m very unconscious of that, yes! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Thought is merely one manifestation of how you manipulate energy within your physical dimension, and it is relative to certain physical dimensions, for it is unnecessary within other expressions of consciousness.

GERALD:  Well, like in the dream world.  I’m not sure that thought goes on there.

ELIAS:  You are correct.

GERALD:  Yeah.  Yeah, something else happens.

ELIAS:  An action within energy occurs subjectively.  Your memory of dream activity is an objective translation.

GERALD:  Okay, I got it.

ELIAS:  Therefore, you create imagery, which is objective translation in thought of the actions that you are engaging subjectively....

GERALD:  Yeah, thoughts are the same thing.  They’re words, and when I look at words, words are simple.  They’re very much objectification of energy.

ELIAS:  Yes.

GERALD:  How am I doing here in playing with that concept?  When you say yes, meaning ...?

ELIAS:  Yes, you are correct.

GERALD:  Okay, good.  It’s fun talking with you, by the way!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Let me share some side comments, and we’ll come back.  Mary says you’re kind of very determined with your agenda.  You also seem ... and I will come back to our conversation.  But just as a sidebar, what is your ... you know, here you are, operating or speaking to me from wherever you’re speaking, and as we like to call this, us human people, we have a passion or a mission in life, and you strike me as having a mission.  What is that mission overall?  What’s your mission in life?  Although I know I’m using that figuratively, okay?

ELIAS:  Quite!  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  (Laughing)  Virtually — I’m using it virtually.  I mean, I don’t even know what the difference is any more!

ELIAS:  Ha ha!

GERALD:  It’s a weird state to be in.  I realize people are conscious of life, and what’s not life....

ELIAS:  For in actuality, I am not engaged within a mission, in your terms, but....

GERALD:  But you have an intention when you’re speaking to me, ‘cause for you to speak to me now presupposes that, does it not?

ELIAS:  My intention is to be responding.

GERALD:  Well, okay.  Ahhhh, yeah, but....

ELIAS:  Collectively....

GERALD:  Let’s take an assumption.  There’s a lot of people like you; people — I’m using that figuratively! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles)  They don’t choose to express themselves in responding like you do.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  In this domain, in this physical domain.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Okay, so you ... what is it that has created a calling for you to do so?

ELIAS:  I am motivated to be creating this type of energy exchange as an exploration.

GERALD:  Oh, okay.  What are you exploring?

ELIAS:  The manipulation of energy filtered through different layers of consciousness to be interactive with a physical expression of consciousness from the expression of consciousness that I focus my attention within.

GERALD:  Yes, I get that.  I get that.

ELIAS:  The manipulation of energy through these layers of consciousness presents a challenge, and this creates a motivation within my attention, in choosing to be responding to your inquiries in this manner.

GERALD:  Yeah, okay.  Got it.  So, you just happened to find Mary, as she called you into being, so to speak, or made a connection, and you guys made a pact.  That’s how I look at it. (Elias chuckles)

ELIAS:  Rather, I have chosen this individual as a facilitating element of consciousness that allows for less interference in my exploration of manipulating energy in this manner, and in a recognition that this individual shall not be influencing of other individuals in objective interaction which may be contrary to the movement that I am expressing.

GERALD:  Okay, I spaced out again.  Sorry.  Let’s go back.

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  When you’re talking ... you know, you have ... anyway, I’ll get better in our future conversations.  I’m kinda really hanging on your every word right now! (Elias laughs)

ELIAS:  Michael does not create obstacles in relation to this energy exchange, nor does he engage interaction with individuals within your physical dimension that may be contrary to my movement in energy in relation to individuals within your physical dimension.

GERALD:  Okay, so that’s ... and your last part was in relationship to how you chose Mary, so to speak.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Okay, got it.  Fascinating!  You know, all this stuff is intriguing to me. (Elias chuckles)  When I use the word intriguing, what I mean is ... you know, I don’t worry about believing or what’s real or not real anymore, but does it make sense intuitively?  What’s your thought on that comment?

ELIAS:  I express to you an acknowledgment, for all is real!

GERALD:  Yes.  Well, okay.  Good point! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Well, I don’t seek to covet this, and I don’t seek to judge from that filter.  You know, it’s almost like the thinking for me is, how is this information valid or relevant?  And I look at myself and go there too, (laughing) and so....

ELIAS:  Ah!  How is it relevant is the point, not how is it valid, for all information is valid.

GERALD:  Okay, good point about valid.  That’s a very good point!  All information is valid.  How is it relevant?  Now, let’s talk more about that.  Let’s go with that one, okay?  Let’s talk more about how is it relevant, as a comment, versus valid.  Let’s contrast those two in thinking.

ELIAS:  Quite....

GERALD:  Tell me your thoughts.

ELIAS:  In this, the information that I am offering to all of you is relevant, for all of you have chosen to be participating in the movement of this shift in consciousness, which....

GERALD:  Yeah, that’s what I was reading about.  You were talking about one of your purposes, and I was kinda like going, what’s Elias up to, so to speak, other than responding.  But there’s a response to something about a shift in consciousness occurring.  Tell me more about that thinking.

ELIAS:  This is a movement that all of YOU have created within your physical dimension, and in this action, you all are participating and widening your awareness, which you evidence to yourselves continuously....

GERALD:  That we are creating.

ELIAS:  Correct.  In this, as you ARE widening your awareness and engaging the periphery of your perceptions within your physical dimension, you are also redefining much of your reality.

GERALD:  Good.  Yeah, I would ... let’s talk about some of the dimensions that redefine the reality, and what you mean by that.  Give me some examples here, as you sense it.

ELIAS:  One of the concepts that you are redefining within your reality is the concept of yourselves as multidimensional beings, rather than a singular entity which is manifest within this physical dimension.

You are also redefining your association with religious belief systems and scientific belief systems.  These also move in relation to your redefinitions of self, for your definition of self prior to this shift in consciousness has been created in relation to your religious and scientific belief systems.

GERALD:  Well, that affects everything else.  When you redefine yourself, then new possibilities and choices become open, is my assumption.  How am I doing here?

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Okay, got it.

ELIAS:  In this, as you redefine yourselves, you also redefine your reality.

GERALD:  That’s right, which redefines the meaning of anything.  The assumption that I have ... let’s work with the assumption that we’re playing with here, or at least what I interpreted way back; not way back; just recently I read some of the transcripts of your sessions.

So, there’s this shift in consciousness, okay, and the shift in consciousness that I’m picking up on is this redefinition of self, and a lot of times, when we redefine self, the world is different, ‘cause all of a sudden, you have a new filter, and you go, oh shit! (Laughing)  One of the things I think I hear, or this is what I’m putting together here or I’m weaving a sense of, is that you don’t want people to all of a sudden go, hey!  Whoa!  What just happened?  I’m freaking out!  I’m having some kind of psychotic episode!

ELIAS:  Quite....

GERALD:  You know, that kind of thing.

ELIAS:  YOU do not wish to be participating in that action, and therefore, you all collectively have a expressed within consciousness that you wish assistance from other essences within consciousness....

GERALD:  Other multidimensional parts of ourselves, so to speak.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Got it.

ELIAS:  And in this, you allow yourselves to be objectively accessing information, which you hold but have forgotten ...

GERALD:  Yes, it’s always been there.  Yeah, got it.

ELIAS:  ... and as you allow yourselves to be assimilating objectively this information, you also eliminate many expressions of trauma in association with the choice that you have created to be inserting this shift into your reality.

GERALD:  Makes sense to me.  So in a way, you and I are aligned in that way.  In a way, I’m helping people do the same.  I just don’t put it that way.

ELIAS:  Quite. (Chuckling)

GERALD:  I mean, it’s all the same thing, ‘cause if you can help people ... here’s my thinking.  I’m here to help people question their assumptions about everything that they think is real, okay?  Now of course, everything we think is real, but we forget that we created it.  So, if you know that you created it, you can create something different, and you may not know that you’re creating it ‘cause you think that it’s real.  But yet it is.  I know you said that everything’s real, right?

ELIAS:  Quite.

GERALD:  Well, it is, but ... there is no but.  The assumption I operate from is that if you could access other choices, you might create something different — another real.

ELIAS:  Quite.

GERALD:  Okay, and that might have more fulfillment, so to speak.  I think, in a sense, that what gets in the way of value fulfillment, if you want to use a word like that, is that we have this feeling that we’re stuck.

ELIAS:  Yes.

GERALD:  And then we get into emotional states of fear or anger or anything like that, and then that narrows our focus.  Am I tracking here?

ELIAS:  Yes.

GERALD:  Tell me your thoughts on my thoughts here.

ELIAS:  Now; as you move and as you allow yourself to widen your awareness, you engage your periphery and you objectively recognize that in actuality, all that you are creating is an exploration, and therefore it matters not ...

GERALD:  What you explore.

ELIAS:  ... what you are experiencing, for it is all a movement of exploration.

GERALD:  Very well said; very well said.  Let me share with you one of the things I’ve begun to say when people ask me what I’m doing in life.  I say, I’m up to just creating.  I just create, and I practice seeing what happens.  That’s what I’m here to do.

ELIAS:  Quite.

GERALD:  It’s the practice of kinda being a god, so it’s like, okay, good.  That’s cool.  The manifest state, yeah.  So okay....

ELIAS:  But I shall also express to you that in the meantime, so to speak, individuals seek information as to how they may be moving within their objective creations as they continue to be associating within judgments.  Therefore....

GERALD:  It’s a challenge! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Yes.  Therefore, I engage each of you and offer information to you, that you may allow yourselves to turn your perceptions and view what you are creating within the now in a different manner, which opens the window to more of a realization of self, and in this, through your process that you have designed, eventually....

GERALD:  The process meaning the design of what we’re manifesting here in this physical world as human beings?

ELIAS:  Correct, for you are quite enamored with processes!

GERALD:  Oh, absolutely!  I certainly am!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  (Laughing)  Gimmie more process, baby!

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  And in the process, you shall familiarize yourselves with you and widen your awareness and open to your choices, and eventually in that process, you shall also recognize objectively, not merely subjectively, that it matters not; that all that you are creating is merely an exploration, and it is the influence of your belief systems that express to you that one direction is better than another direction, or that certain choices are good and certain choices are bad.

GERALD:  It’s irrelevant, alternately.  It’s just that whatever happens, happens.  It’s an expression of energy, period.

ELIAS:  Correct.

GERALD:  Yes, that’s a constant reminder, and sometimes I have to remind myself, ‘cause here we are, you could say, by virtue of the process we’re engaged in, to quote you as best I can, and the mind comes with it as a filtering mechanism which judges, so to speak.  So, it’s this balance of knowing ... I mean, part of my mind goes, it’s a condition of the mind.  It’s something that is ... by virtue of focusing, of keeping a corporeal focus, okay, you’re judging, you’re discriminating, you’re making distinctions.  However, that’s the game.  What’s your thinking on my thoughts?

ELIAS:  I may express to you that the identification is the conditioning.  It is not an innate quality of thought, but that you have become conditioned within yourselves to be creating judgments through the thought process.

GERALD:  Okay, good.  Okay, got it.  Okay, yeah.  Well said.  I’ll have to remind myself of that one.

You know, it’s interesting that you talk about this shift that is occurring, or in a way, maybe it already has occurred, in how we are manifesting that shift, whatever that is.  Where else would I go with that?  I’m not sure.

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha!

GERALD:  I’ve gotta say, it’s great fun talking to you!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha!  And I may express the same to you, my friend!

GERALD:  You know, it would be fun to have you speak with me at the University of Chicago.  However, I’m not going to invite you at this point, (Elias laughs) although I could afford your fee.  But some of the people, I feel, would go, “What’s THAT?”

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha!  I may express to you, you may be objectively surprised at the numbering of individuals that shall express less surprise in interaction with myself than you believe!  Ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  You know, it’s interesting, because even the stuff that I throw out there now to people about ... like in classes, I will talk about ... you know, people talk about the nature of time, and you’re talking about the alignment that’s going on now, that consciousness shifts and science shifts and religion shifts ... because actually, they don’t shift.  We shift in relationship to, I think is one of the things you talked about.  Some of the latest theories that are coming out are that there is no such thing as time, that our whole notion of linear time ... we’ve deluded ourselves, and we’ve created a way of being that has helped reinforce that.

ELIAS:  It is a design of perception.

GERALD:  Yes, it is a design of perception, and what I like about that ... see, one of the principles that I’ve been holding onto or engaging since I was a wee lad of 16, and I’m now 41, is that there is no time and there is no death, and now I can talk to people about it, and there’s no surprise about any of it.  People are intrigued.  There’s no like, “Oh no!  It’s this way!”  So, why I’m commenting on that is, you are absolutely right that people probably aren’t that surprised at all, or that ... it’s more contact.

ELIAS:  This is another evidence of the movement of your shift.

GERALD:  Yes, and I look at it the same way, you know?  So many come back, and I talk about what’s real and not real, or like in the Seth books, I like how consciousness ... what we see manifest is constant consciousness.  What we see is ... like I’m looking at a table, and it looks very stable, like it’s been here and it’s worn, and there’s such a thing as time affecting it, or whatever we think of as time affecting it.  I come home from a trip, and I’m not sure if this is the same place anymore when I come back.  It’s an interesting thing.  Now, that’s only because I’ve been away.  So, you talk about ... or Seth, in certain books, talks about .... well, I’m rambling here.

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  I certainly know what I think I mean!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha!

GERALD:  It goes back to the shift in consciousness.

ELIAS:  Quite, and I am understanding of what you are expressing.  You are noticing the movement of perception.

GERALD:  Yes, and I’m noticing it bigtime, and in ways that I don’t even ... if everything changed around me right now, I’d go, oh, that sure is interesting!  It would not be a shock to my system at all.  Does that make sense to you?

ELIAS:  In SOME expressions. (Grinning)

GERALD:  Okay, tell me.

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  There may be some other expressions that may manifest within your reality that you may encounter or create some expressions of conflict with.

GERALD:  I’m sure. (Elias chuckles)  I’m sure!  I do that all the time with people!  “Hey!  You’re not gonna believe my reality!”

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  We could say that’s the evidence.  I wouldn’t say that’s an actual proof! (Laughing)  Okay, you got me there ... no, not that you got me there.  I’m just playing with you!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

GERALD:  Well, you have a great sense of humor!  I’m gonna focus on another dimension here ... well, I’m gonna focus on another project.  I have a client call coming up, and in a way, I’ll be doing what you do.  I’m gonna be checking in on what their perceptions are, and I’m gonna be coaching, and just seeing how well I did with affecting a distinct change.

ELIAS:  Ah!

GERALD:  People come to me just to deal with ... well, not that you’ll ever have to remember this, because by the way, I intend to, and I’ll tell Mary this, but I intend to have multiple conversations with you in the coming years.  You’re intriguing, fun, things that I like, and very relevant conversations.

ELIAS:  I shall be anticipating this excitement in fun, my friend!

GERALD:  Yes, that’s very much how I look at it — excitement in fun!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha!  And we shall be playful together!

GERALD:  Yes, and which I very much enjoy!  So, you can go ahead and turn me back over to Mary.  Thanks for your time.

ELIAS:  Very well.

GERALD:  I very much appreciate it.

ELIAS:  I shall be anticipating our next meeting.

GERALD:  Good.

ELIAS:  In great affection to you ...

GERALD:  Great affection to you, Elias.

ELIAS:  ... au revoir.

GERALD:  Au revoir.

Elias departs at 12:52 p.m.