Session 2902

Session 20100103 (2902)
"Extreme Degrees of Separation"
"Unwanted Choices"
"The Key to Conquering Fear"
"Elias' Definition of Sonata“

Sunday, January 03, 2010 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Rose (Quillan)

"When you incorporate many, many, many individuals that form a group that all are generating that same type of perception, in which each of them perceives themselves to be superior to all of the others, what occurs is there is an objective breakdown of the recognition of the interconnectedness of all beings, of all of consciousness."

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

ROSE: Good (thinking)—good day, Elias. (Elias laughs) It's morning, I guess, where Mary lives. Yes, still morning. Good morning, Elias! Hello and Happy New Year!

ELIAS: And to you also. (chuckles)

ROSE: Thank you very much! Are you aware that, um, (sings) "Freude, Schöner Götterfunken ..."—no. Is that the one? Nein—"Ode to Joy" is the European anthem?


ROSE: You are aware. Huh! (Elias laughs) I just recognized that lately. So!

Do you know what? This is a little brief thing. I am in new contact with a person, she's called Marta, and I read her transcripts. She once asked you a question about your most favorite sonata, and your answer was "Für Elise" and "The Moonlight Sonata," and she was pretty shocked because one is not a sonata. (Both laugh) And she is a classical musician, so she knew it right away, while I didn't even notice when reading the transcript. (Elias laughs) And maybe it's a nice surprise for her if you could comment on this special incident?

ELIAS: Ah, but what is formally identified as a sonata and what is not are merely musical terms in relation to classical study of music, which I would express that I also adhered to in several focuses of my own, but in terms of what a sonata IS actually in relation to what you would term to be the emotional expression of them, there are certain musical compositions that could be classified as a sonata, which would be more accurate in relation to the emotional expression that they are borne out of and that they are designed to convey in the musical expression.

And in that, the word that I incorporate as a sonata is: a musical composition that translates a very deep, emotional expression that contains an exquisite expression of appreciation and love that can only be expressed in musical terms in certain forms. And in that, although every musical expression or composition is an expression of some emotional factor, or an emotional portrayal so to speak, sonatas are more personal; and this is the reason that I expressed those two particular compositions and incorporated the word of a sonata as being attached to them, in the definition that it is a personal expression of love and appreciation.

ROSE: Mm. Wonderful! (Elias chuckles) Wonderful. Okay, now I'll come to my own questions, although I will, you know, ask questions for others again and again. (Elias chuckles) You mentioned a lady, Lisa Smith, an author lately. Is this the lady who writes books (inaudible). Are you still here?



ELIAS: And your question is , is this the individual who writes what?

ROSE: Books about vampires.

ELIAS: Some.

ROSE: Some. Yeah, and shapeshifters and everything. She writes books for youth, for young people ...?


ROSE: This is the person. And this is a concurrent focus of mine?


ROSE: Wow. I checked the transcripts, and there is only one reference about vampires, and there is a person asking if another focus of her is connected to vampires, and from that I got that vampires are considered to be a real thing.

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct.

ROSE: Okay. Well, this is quite a surprise for me. (Both laugh) But don't tell me I have a vampire focus, otherwise I'll ... you know ... ? (Both laugh) I might fall back on my back now. (Elias chuckles)

Okay. Let's go into the questions. There is another little weird question: Is the Earth inside inhabited by beings? I once heard that below or beneath Florida there are people, beings which—that was really odd—sometimes through kinds of holes pulling kids, and the kids are gone and never seen again, and it is like these beings feed themselves from human kids. I found that pretty odd, and I would like to ask you these two questions: Is the Earth inside inhabited, and are there beings that cruel?

ELIAS: Are there beings that actually generate that action of pulling children into the Earth? No.

ROSE: No. (Relieved)

ELIAS: Are there beings that inhabit a space arrangement that is the same as within your physical Earth? Yes.

ROSE: Yes.

ELIAS: Are they actually inhabiting your earth substance? No. It is, in a manner of speaking, a dimension within a dimension...

ROSE: Yes.

ELIAS: …which I have been spoken of previously, and that also occurs within your air. But yes, within certain aspects of your Earth there are physical locations that do contain a dimension within a dimension and that would be physically located inside of your planet.

ROSE: Yes. And are these beings cruel, or are there cruel beings?

ELIAS: Are there cruel beings?

ROSE: I mean, what I personally would consider cruel—like mean beings, beings which like to enjoy seeing someone in pain, or overwhelming someone and whatever, you know?

ELIAS: In relation to your perception and your beliefs in response to the question "Are there cruel beings?", yes. Could you label them as cruel? Yes, in like manner that you can label individuals of your own species as cruel.

ROSE: Yes.

ELIAS: In relation to your individual beliefs and perceptions, yes, your own species can be viewed and perceived as cruel, and other species can be also. And there are beings within other dimensions that could be viewed as cruel also, yes.

Do they necessarily perceive THEMSELVES as being cruel? Not necessarily. But it is, once again, relative and is dependent upon your perception and how you define cruel.

ROSE: Okay. (Sighs) This comes to a topic that I wanted to address sooner or later anyway, so let's do it right away. If you have someone, like in the Second World War and you have a Nazi who is doing cruel experiments on humans and is torturing humans and so on—of course, I am aware that with the belief set of such a person, it might be thinking that it is doing something very beneficial, creating a new race and things like that, but what it is actually doing is bringing a lot of pain to the individual in front of himself if it is doing horrible things, and it is a painful action—what I am really amazed about is that some people are able to block out that aspect of their actions. I mean, it escapes me in a way, and ...

I lately read a book about a concentration camp, and it made me aware of how much raping had been going there. And in this book it was said that the people, the Nazis there, they didn't perceive the Jewish people as humans—they were less than humans. So it wasn't a rape, it was just nothing. It was their right to rape someone and to kill them in a very cruel way over this, and it was fun. It was not considered like they would have raped a German, for example, and there was so much pain. I mean, several men raping a kid of thirteen years and bringing it to death in a cruel way, it is a cruel act in my guidelines and assessments, and that someone would say that this is not cruel but just nothing is somehow a little difficult for me to get, in a way. I get it intellectually, but not emotionally.

ELIAS: I am understanding. And this would be directly associated with generating more extreme expressions of separation. The more separation that an individual generates, the less they connect with their empathic sense, and in that, the less they view their own interconnectedness with their world.

In this, let me express to you, when individuals are generating certain degrees of separation, to the point in which they do not recognize—objectively, at all—their interconnectedness with ANY other being, even if it may be expressed in one particular obvious direction,—let us say in your example—if an individual expresses that separation to a degree of extreme in which they do not recognize their interconnectedness with another individual based upon their ethnicity, or based upon their religious affiliations or their cultural expression, regardless of how that individual may isolate and define that they are cut off, in a manner of speaking, from any type of connection with those other individuals, it extends far beyond merely one group of individuals, for what the individual is doing is creating an extreme degree of separation within themself.

And even with individuals that they view to be COMRADES with, they do not perceive themselves to be actually be connected to. What they do is they, in a manner of speaking, lose that objective awareness of any interconnectedness; therefore, they begin to perceive themselves as an entity to themself, and that they may belong to a general group of similar entities, such as a species, so to speak, but even within that they generate such a degree of separation that they are not actually perceiving themselves as interconnected with any other individual, even within their own group. In this, you will notice certain types of expressions with these types of individuals in which they generate a perception of themself as being somewhat superior to all other physical manifestations, even those within their own group.


ELIAS: They may agree in part to occupy certain roles in which surfacely it may appear that they are allowing other individuals to express some authority over them, but in actuality they generate the perception of their own superiority that disconnects them—or in their perception disconnects them—from all other beings, even the individuals that they may consider to be their own leaders. Within themselves, they view themselves as superior even to their leaders.

Now when you incorporate many, many, many individuals that form a group that all are generating that same type of perception, in which each of them—regardless of their position, regardless of their rank, regardless of their expression in what role they may play—that each of them perceives themselves to be superior to all of the others, what occurs is there is an objective breakdown of the recognition of the interconnectedness of all beings, of all of consciousness.

This is translated in association with your individual guidelines and beliefs as perhaps disrespectful, or as cruel, or as insensitive, uncaring, unfeeling. In this, what the individuals do is they begin to create their own directives, so to speak, or their own definitions for those same expressions such as sensitivity or caring or respect. They redefine those, and they create their OWN definitions for those expressions that only apply to themself but that are either expected or not expected of other individuals, dependent upon the degree of separation.

In many situations they do not actually expect other individuals or other physical manifestations to express what they express, for they have generated this degree of separation to such an extreme, and they have generated such a devaluing of other manifestations, that they actually perceive that other manifestations are not capable of generating what they themselves generate, and therefore they are not worthy of the consideration that the individual affords themself.

Now in this, there is a byproduct; for whether you attempt to delude yourselves, or not, that you are not interconnected, you are. And in that, there are byproducts, in a manner of speaking, for these types of directions that individuals engage. When individuals engage the direction of elevating themself, perceiving that they are superior—and I have expressed that many times—you not merely discount or devalue other individuals, but you devalue and discount yourself.

It does not necessarily surfacely appear that the individual is devaluing or discounting themself, but they are. And in that, they generate other expressions within themself, which in a manner of speaking creates a very destructive circle. For the more they create this inner disconnection and destruction within themself, the more they express that outwardly, and in that the principle of energy will not be contained, that it will be expressed, it creates a very destructive circle.

What occurs is the individual themself that is generating these outward actions that you perceive to be cruel and is discounting and devaluing other individuals, and is creating this extreme perception of a lack of connection and this extreme of separation, that creates a very dis-eased situation within the individual themself, for they also generate a very severe disconnection from themself.

And in that, figuratively speaking, they thrust themselves into an isolated void, which is very uncomfortable. I would express that uncomfortable is far too gentle a term to express the actual torturous situation that occurs when an individual generates such an extreme separation. What you view is the outward expression of that, the physical demonstration of it, but whatever you view outwardly as a physical demonstration is merely a fraction of the separation and the destruction that the individual is generating inwardly.

As with any situation, whatever you physically manifest outwardly is not the whole sum of what you are generating inwardly. Just as if you are viewing in a positive manner in relation to your own guidelines and beliefs, if you are expanding yourself and your awareness and your interconnectedness, and you begin to recognize inner knowings, those are very strong, and they are very expansive, and they can be what you term as very large. But their outward translation may be very incomplete or very small, for translating into objective physical imagery what you generate inwardly is very difficult. Which is also the reason that you are creating this shift, to afford you greater abilities of that translation into physical manifestations, which you are expanding quite well.

BUT, even in that you can recognize that whatever you generate inwardly, the outward expression of that is merely a fraction, such as the metaphor of the iceberg and the small portion of the iceberg that extends upward beyond the surface but the tremendous vastness of the iceberg that lies below the surface. This is an excellent metaphor for all of you and what you do inwardly and outwardly.

With an individual that generates actions of such extreme separation in relation to other manifestations in their reality, they are generating much more of that expression of separation inwardly with themself, which is much more torturous—not to excuse, or to express an acknowledgement or to express condoning actions that individuals generate in relation to each other in what you term to be cruelty, but as an accurate explanation it is an outward manifestation of what they are generating inwardly.

And in that, even in association with MOST of you of your own species, there continue to this present time framework separations in which individuals view many physical manifestations, living manifestations, as less than themselves. Many, many individuals, if not at this present time framework continuing to be the majority of individuals, continue to view other living manifestations such as creatures as being less than humans, which they are not. You are equally as interconnected with them as you are with each other, but it is more acceptable to be cruel, in your terms, to other creatures than it is to be cruel to humans.

In this, let me express to you, my friend, I would express there are very few individuals within your reality that are aware objectively and recognize the genuine significance of interconnectedness to the point that they would not, in your terms, murder an insect with no thought and no feeling whatsoever, viewing it to be not even CLOSE to the importance or the value of a human.

Now, I am not discounting what you are expressing and the genuineness of your feelings and your revulsion for the actions of cruelty that individuals express with each other, and I acknowledge the significance of that. I would express that in recognizing the genuineness of the interconnectedness of consciousness, it may become more and more obvious objectively that actions may be redefined as cruel in relation to other manifestations also, that in this, there is a genuine significance to valuing that lack of separation and expanding and knowing that what you do outside of yourself is not merely a reflection of what you are doing inside of yourself, but also what you are rippling through and affecting all of consciousness with, and if you are affecting all of consciousness in a manner that is destructive, how devastating is that to yourself in what you do to be destructive within self.

ROSE: Elias! This is the old knowledge of the indigenous peoples, but it seems to not have entered many people's minds, and there are two things I would like to mention: one is an incident, somebody posted a video, or a link to a video. This was about how humans treat animals. There was one part about meat production, and how it is in huge countries like America, I don't know, maybe in other countries also, but this scenario was filmed in America, and it was like the cattle were just part of the huge machinery. And the way they put the animals to death, they were put alive into a machine, and I was so shocked when I saw this and I brought it to the list, and there was somebody coming up and it said, "Well, the animals choose, they make their choices themselves." And I was so shocked how someone could not see the pain, and I don't believe that an animal that is squeezed into a machine like into a huge trash car, that doesn't feel any emotions or physical pain or whatever. It was just so utterly cruel, this action, and I was so shocked over this response of this other fellow—it was someone from the Elias list. It is not about discounting this person, not at all, but there was such a huge difference in perception.

ELIAS: Yes, and I would express that this statement is merely turning words that are used to seem enlightened or SEEM expanded—this statement is merely incorporating words in a different manner to express the same energy and the same perception that has been occurring throughout your history, which is this element of lack of interconnectedness and this tremendous expression of separation to extreme.

ROSE: But the reason was the animal choosing its experience.

ELIAS: Correct. I am aware, and this is merely incorporating words that justify an action. They do not justify the action. Yes, in the grand picture in all of consciousness, is this a choice in a manner of speaking? Figuratively, yes. All actions are choice. Is it a choice that is wanted? Not necessarily.

If you engage THAT type of perception, what you are expressing is merely a justification for that separation once again, and in that, generating that complete lack of interconnectedness in the individual's perception, and therefore also in their reality.

For I may express equally as accurately, that same individual may create very uncomfortable situations and experiences. Were they a choice? Yes. Did the individual WANT to create that choice? Not necessarily. You all create choices in every moment. Every action is a choice. Is that action necessarily a wanted action? Not necessarily. Is it, in a vast and somewhat conceptual aspect within consciousness, an agreement? Yes. Any action that occurs between manifestations, in some capacity, is an agreement within consciousness. Does that necessarily mean that within your physical existence that you AGREE to an action? No. Not necessarily.

ROSE: Okay. Elias, this brings me to the other question: I agree, or I can find a deep understanding about this agreement thing. On the other end, if you are in a scenario physically, objectively, in which one is very cruel to the other, generally what you want to do is you either want to run away and escape, or a different version is that you want to overwhelm the other and protect yourself in this way. But you want to protect yourself, mainly, at least me. I mainly want to protect myself. It’s usually not by overwhelming the other, but just by withdrawing.

And when you are exposed to someone, or you perceive yourself exposed, like when you are a kid and you have placed yourself in a situation and you made the choice before your incarnation to be in a situation with a cruel parent, or uncle or whatever, and you are there and you have no way to escape; or if you are two adults and you are in a situation where you for at least a while do not find a way, or cannot find a way to protect yourself and to escape; you are like—like in a prison, when you are in a prison and you are put to prison without being guilty, really, but you were sued, and there is a scenario in the prison which is very cruel by other prisoners or whatever. I can understand that it is has been a kind of choice before the incarnation, before you engaged the focus and everything, but when you are IN this situation and you feel so rather exposed, what could you do then?

I mean, you often say you all have all the answers inside, but when I'm talking with you, you sometimes come up with answers which I wouldn't have come up with, aspects I didn't see yet but are very helpful to see right NOW without looking very long but having this shortcut, in a way, by the talks with you. And all this ties into this, what do you do when you find yourself in a situation where you feel kind of exposed to the situation or an individual and you don't find the answers? This a big, huge ball of questions.

ELIAS: Yes. You are correct, it is. (Both laugh)

Now, I would express that one aspect of this "huge ball of questions" is that from the onset of humans you have battled with this particular huge ball of questions and have wanted a particular type of answer which you do not receive, or you want a type of answer of a certain type of solution: "What can I do?" Or, "Why do individuals do this? And how can they be stopped?" Or, "What can change that would PREVENT individuals from engaging these types of actions that are cruel, or that are not acceptable, or that are violent?" I would express that that answer you will not find.

For it is in your nature to explore, and exploration is not always neat and tidy. Exploration can be cruel and can be messy. BUT, as to the question of what can you do IN that situation in which you feel to be a victim, in which you are overpowered, and in that, there is an action that you can engage. It is difficult for most individuals, I would concede that, and the reason it is difficult is that although in some situations many of you may be very accomplished at overriding certain feelings, one feeling that is difficult for most of you to override is fear. That is one feeling that is very strong and very consuming.

The significant element with fear is that fear occurs when an individual is very focused upon some outside occurrence. Now this may seem somewhat tricky, for you could argue that there are some situations in which the individual may be battling a fear within themselves. But fear is a feeling that originates from some outside threat, not from an inside threat. Even if the battle is raging inwardly with an individual and there appears to be no outside battle that is occurring, there are outside factors that are generating the fear. This is the reason that it is difficult to override it.

In this, what is the key is, in the midst of the fear to generate even a moment—and that is all that is necessary, a simple moment; translated into time increments, it could be less than a second is all that is required—but to generate a moment in which the individual can actually be feeling that fear and also stop for a moment and question, "What is the threat?"

That is one of the most difficult actions to actually engage, and the reason that it is difficult is precisely what you are engaging this shift for: to be more connecting with Self, to be more focussed upon Self first, and generating that as the primary attention first, which is not familiar.

You are familiar with projecting the primary attention outside of yourself, which allows for a MYRIAD of threats, and you are very accustomed to viewing yourself as singular and small, just as a child; that there are forces outside of you that are bigger, that are stronger than you, and in viewing, perceiving yourself to be singular and small that you cannot match all of these outside forces that are much larger and much stronger—but they are not.

THAT is the point, and that is the key, is that MOMENT of recognition that whatever the outside threat is, it is not bigger or stronger than you; that even death is not a bigger or stronger threat against you; that even death cannot generate a choice against you; that you do not cease to generate your own choices. But this is a very difficult realization to move towards, for it is very ingrained in each of you that you are singular, that you are small, that you are individually alone, which is reinforced in BEING a child.

In your scenario of entering into a family that may be abusive or that may be cruel or that may be violent or that may be neglectful, the child is encouraged from the onset, from the emergence of its existence, to be helpless, to be less than, to be small and alone, individual, separate, and in that, helpless. And as you grow physically as an individual, that continues to be reinforced throughout your experiences, that you are singular, you are alone, you are not connected, and therefore you are not as strong. You are one small entity, and you are not as strong as the combined energy of other entities.

Which is entirely incorrect. You ARE as strong; you merely have forgotten that. That also, once again, is another point of this shift, in generating that remembrance, that state of being of empowerment, of knowing. And in that empowerment, that knowing of how you affect all that is around you and how you draw all that is around you.

In relation to what occurs in your example and scenario of the cattle, are they choosing literally to be slaughtered? In one capacity, yes. Do they want that? No. But in that, what you do ripples and permeates throughout your reality. It is not confined to yourselves as humans—animals generate very similarly. They incorporate very similar perceptions, in that there are outside forces that are stronger, that are bigger, that can enforce a will regardless of whether they agree, regardless of whether they want that or not, in very similar manner to yourselves.

A lion may be aware of its power, but it also incorporates the perception that an elephant can crush it. And that it may not necessarily want to BE crushed by an elephant, but that it can occur, and that if it occurs—not that the lion generates a thought process as do you—but if it occurs, it also knows that it placed itself in a situation and in a position in which it allowed it to occur, not that it wanted it to occur.

In this, your cattle do not want that situation to occur. Do they perceive themselves as helpless to avoid it, or to change it? For the most part, yes, just as a child perceives itself to be helpless to change a situation with adults that appear to be stronger than it and that may generate actions that are hurtful. Can that child actually express an action to stop the situation? Yes, it can. Is that very difficult? Yes, it is. For what they are actually battling is themself and that perception that they are helpless, and that there are forces stronger and bigger than themselves. Just as yourselves: you perceive that there are forces that are bigger and stronger than yourselves. There are not, but that does not generate any less of a reality that you create in which it SEEMS that there are energies and forces that are bigger and stronger than each of you individually.

The key is that one second, that one moment of feeling the fear but also generating the ability to LOOK at the fear: What is it? What can it actually do to you?

What is so powerful of fear is what its potential is, for that gives way and opens the door to the allowance of what can actually physically occur. But before the actual physical action occurs, it is the fear of the potential that allows it to occur.

ROSE: We are over the time, so I am very reluctant to speak my next question. Let us continue in the next session.

ELIAS: Very well. I shall greatly be anticipating of it. I would express that this is a vast subject. There are many elements to this subject, my friend.

ROSE: Yes.

ELIAS: But just as we discussed the key in our previous conversation, there are keys in this situation also.

ROSE: Very good.

ELIAS: I shall be anticipating our next conversation, my friend. In tremendous affection to you, great encouragement as always, and in tremendous interconnectedness with you, au revoir.

ROSE: Au revoir, thank you.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 9 minutes)