Session 200704111

Discounting by Crediting Others

Session 20070411
“Energy Release Through Skin”
“Interactions, Shielding and Defensiveness ”
“Discounting by Crediting Others"
"The Energy Magnet"

Wednesday, April 11, 2007 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael), Anne (Monique), and Anne for Patrick (Erik)

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

ANNE: Good afternoon! (Laughs) How are you?

ELIAS: (Laughs) As always. And yourself?

ANNE: Ah, very good. Very good. Very good. I am standing in for Patrick.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANNE: He basically has a bit of an issue and he was feeling rather frustrated today, and he just had to get out of the house.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Very well.

ANNE: Yeah. So, I’m here instead. So, we’ll begin with Patrick’s questions. I’m very happy to come in anyway, because I wanted to talk anyways to you, and I thought, well, I’ll let Patrick… The sort of things that Patrick wants to say, I can say them just as well. So…

ELIAS: Very well.

ANNE: Do you agree to that? (Both laugh)

ELIAS: Very well. You may proceed.

ANNE: Okay. Cool. Patrick has a problem with his hands that continuously gives him blisters, where he gets a lot of heat coming out, sweating and blisters. And the first question, I suppose, is in regards to that. Do you have any suggestions as to where he should look, in which direction he should look for that or what it signifies?

ELIAS: I would express that he is already moving in the direction of addressing to that, for that is associated with pressure.

ANNE: Pressure. Okay.

ELIAS: And in generating constant pressure, which he has previously, it creates a type of tension that holds energy. And the manner in which he has been holding energy, it is being expressed in these bursts, which create the blisters.


ELIAS: In this, if he allows himself to generate more calm and not move in the familiar directions of generating pressure with himself, that will alleviate this action.

Now; the reason I am expressing this is that although in some manners he is allowing himself to generate more calm now, and is allowing himself to relax somewhat, there continues to be an element that is very familiar to him. In that, even in allowing himself what he would term to be free time, when he engages certain actions or tasks he begins to generate that pressure again.

ANNE: Yes.

ELIAS: Which creates frustration, and it creates that tense energy again in which he is holding that energy. And as I have expressed many times, energy will be expressed. Therefore, the body consciousness devises a manner in which it can release that energy.

ANNE: Yes.

ELIAS: Therefore, I would express the suggestion that he genuinely pay attention to what he is doing and allow himself to engage activities without pressuring himself as to how the activities should be done or as to the outcomes.

ANNE: Okay. Okay. And he says that his neck has gotten a lot better, so thank you for the suggestion of focusing on the immediate physical surroundings. And he said he’s noticed that yawning also helps. And he was just wondering if you could maybe help him understand why yawning helps him as well to realign his attention, or something like that?

ELIAS: For that also is an action that releases energy, and it readjusts the manner in which the energy is flowing.

ANNE: Okay. How interesting! I’ll have to try that myself.

ELIAS: That is a natural action that allows a release of energy, and it automatically readjusts the circulation, so to speak, of the individual’s energy.

ANNE: Okay. With his… well, I might as well just ask. Tied in with this is Patrick’s work colleague. His name is Daniel. And the other day we bumped into him, and suddenly after like a minute of being with him I got suddenly really tired. And I could have just fallen asleep right there and then. I kind of just zoned out. And sometimes I do get that yawning thing as well when it comes to other people. There’s a blockage or… I don’t know if you want to call it blockage, but it’s like a feeling of you just don’t want to be there or you want to fall asleep instantly. And I get it with him. I do get it with other people as well. But what is that feeling?

ELIAS: At times you may encounter another individual that expresses an intensity in their energy, and that can create a response of other individuals to be fatigued merely encountering that intensity of energy.

For when you engage other individuals, unless you are strongly shielding, what occurs naturally is that your energy fields meet. And in that, they touch, and at times they intermingle—not always, but many times your energy fields do intermingle.

When you encounter another individual whose energy field is being expressed in an intensity that you are not necessarily accustomed to, as your energy fields meet and touch, what occurs is you begin to experience the other individual’s energy, and the manner in which you translate that can be similar to generating a very strenuous physical activity. Although you may not necessarily be engaging any physical activity, this is the manner in which you experience the other individual’s energy, and it can be immediately fatiguing.

ANNE: That’s funny, isn’t it? (Elias chuckles) Very interesting. What I’ve noticed as well with Daniel, and so has Patrick, when he and I get together, he – well, like in this last experience, he couldn’t look at me for some reason. He has a lot of difficulty looking at me. And why would that be?

ELIAS: That would also be associated with his energy. And in that, he may feel exposed.

ANNE: Oh. Okay.

ELIAS: For as you experience HIS energy, and your energy field touches HIS energy field, and you experience what YOU do, he also touches YOUR energy field and experiences you. But in that, recognizing the difference in these energies, that may be translated within him as a vulnerability or an exposure.

ANNE: Oh. Oh, interesting. Okay. Interesting. Is that what I’m actually exhibiting, let’s say at that point in time? I felt very comfortable and open generally.

ELIAS: Precisely. But that is translated by him as feeling exposed to you.

ANNE: Okay.

ELIAS: Just as you can express an example in which perhaps you may connect with another individual’s energy, and you may generate feelings and you may actually offer yourself some information in regard to another individual merely through their energy. But if the other individual is also somewhat aware that you are connecting with their energy, they may retreat somewhat and feel that you know more information concerning them than you actually do. Are you understanding?

ANNE: Yes, I think so.

ELIAS: Therefore, that will generate a feeling within them that they are exposed, and that may be somewhat uncomfortable.

ANNE: Uh-huh. Okay. So, it sort of triggered their own exposure things.


ANNE: Interesting. Very interesting.

ELIAS: Which, they will display that in some action that is an indicator to you that they are generating somewhat of a retreat, perhaps not entirely but such as the action of not looking at you directly. Averting his gaze is an indicator that he is retreating somewhat, for he is feeling somewhat exposed.

ANNE: Okay. Well, it wasn’t… certainly not my intention to do that.

ELIAS: I am understanding. But it is not what you did; it is how the other individual is translating.

ANNE: Yes. I’ve got it.

ELIAS: And that is associated with his own energy and his own beliefs and his own guidelines.

ANNE: Yes. Okay. Yeah, because I think he has told Patrick he’s a bit scared of me. I don’t get it. (Elias laughs) I’m like, “Scared of me? Why is scared? There’s nothing to be scared of.” I haven’t done anything to him. I haven’t even barely spoken to the man. (Elias laughs) But he has this strong perception that I… I don’t know, will harm him in a way, or do something to him or say something to him, but… I don’t know. I get it. Thank you for explaining that.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) You are welcome.

ANNE: (Chuckles) I’ll go back to that a little bit, but I do need to fit in some of these questions that Patrick has, otherwise he’ll kill me when he gets home. (Elias laughs)

Okay. He was asking about his self-perception. This is a question from Patrick. He was asking about his self-perception in the workplace. Generally, he says when he started at his old job he perceived himself as being lucky and not very qualified. And so what happened as a result of that perception, he said, it made him work that much harder to achieve the things that other people in the office achieved. But at the same time, the down side of that sort of perception is that he feels he undervalued himself. And so now he wants to be sure or enter the new workplace with more of a realistic perception of himself. So, if there’s any aspects, he asks if you could let him know, to play with in his mind to even his perception out a little bit of himself. He’d like that.

ELIAS: I would offer the suggestion that he allows himself to define within himself what he thinks he is lacking in, and once defining that, to allow himself to genuinely evaluate whether that is actually correct or not.

Many times individuals think that they are expressing in a particular manner or that they are not generating a particular action when they actually are.

ANNE: Yes.

ELIAS: And it is significant to acknowledge his own accomplishments. It is not "lucky" that he generated the employment that he had; he created that.

ANNE: Yes.

ELIAS: It is a matter of crediting himself with his accomplishments rather than crediting other individuals with his own accomplishments. And that is a significant element, for it is very easy to credit other individuals with your own actions, such as in an example of money.

ANNE: Mm-hm. Yeah. Oh yeah. I know.

ELIAS: That in which the individual credits another individual for their creation of money: “I did not create this. This individual gave it to me.”

ANNE: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: Or in an action of traveling, an individual may travel and may express, “I did not create that. Another individual brought me with them.”

ANNE: That’s me you’re talking… (laughs)

ELIAS: Therefore, what is occurring is the energy that is being projected is one of discounting, for the individual is crediting some other source with their own success and their own accomplishment.

ANNE: Yes.

ELIAS: That another establishment or another individual or a circumstance allowed them to accomplish some action. No, YOU allowed you to accomplish what you have accomplished. But when you do not credit yourself, you devalue yourself. And in devaluing yourself, you create thickness, which generates more difficulty in whatever you do.

ANNE: Well, I mean, I can say from personal experience that it is very difficult to credit oneself when it appears as though someone has given something to you or done something—as you say, given it to you. And it’s very difficult even for me to switch over to say, “Oh no, I’m the one who did that.” There must be something that’s preventing that from naturally… There must be something that naturally prevents one from crediting oneself automatically.

ELIAS: It is a familiar association. You exist now in a reality that incorporates separation as a very strong element. Therefore, that creates things, and it creates the separateness of things, including yourself as a thing. And in that, your automatic association is that whatever YOU have actually created must only come from you--it must be an extension of you, or an action that you yourself have engaged, to be your creation.

ANNE: Mm-hm.

ELIAS: This is a very familiar association. But in shifting and in becoming more aware of yourselves, it is important to actually re-evaluate. As I have expressed many times, in this shift you are redefining your reality. And in redefining, an element of that redefinition of your reality is recognizing that what creates all the actions, all of the manifestations within your reality, is your energy and how it is being expressed, how it is being projected.

For your energy can be likened to an immense magnet. Your magnet is pointed outwardly in every direction surrounding you. And whatever energy is passing through that magnet, it is pulling to you in every direction whatever matches the magnet. Therefore, it matters not what you define as a source of certain actions or expressions or things that come to you; they would not come to you if your magnet wasn’t pulling them.

Therefore, this is the most significant point. For what you project in energy, which is indicated by what you do, is what you shall draw to yourself. Just as I expressed in the example of the leprechaun, it does not distinguish between good or bad; it merely responds to what you are expressing.

If you are expressing, “I am not adequate enough,” your leprechaun will express, “Very well,” and it will offer you experiences that evidence to you that you are not adequate enough. If you are expressing genuinely a contentment with yourself, a comfort with yourself, your leprechaun will offer more of that.

ANNE: So, if we started playing a little… I mean, when I’m sitting here, I’m thinking about that, the feeling that would come or I would generate with believing that everything in my life is due to me, which is brought in by my magnet and therefore I create it all. I mean, it creates a huge amount of comfort and relaxation, actually. And I’m just thinking about that in terms of going through day-to-day life with that feeling and what would happen in that sort of… in that feeling. I can’t imagine. (Both laugh) The drama in my life. I don’t know, but…

But if Patrick, for example, were to finally believe that hey, he’s the one who created it all, not giving the credit away, I could probably see him as feeling and being much more confident and relaxed naturally.


ANNE: And I guess all of us, in a way, would be feeling that way. In our own ways of being confident individually, we would be that way.

ELIAS: Yes. For that is what provides you with that comfort and that security and that serenity, is knowing that YOU are doing.

ANNE: I know what he’s going to say to this, because it just popped into my mind, and that is he’s going to say, “But I’ve [inaudible], I’ve been motivated by this feeling of ‘I’ve got to do better. I’ve got to measure up. I’ve got to do this. I’ve got to do that,’” and that’s where a lot of his motivation has come from.

ELIAS: Let me interject. I am understanding this element. What is being confused is a misunderstanding in relation to motivation.

ANNE: Okay.

ELIAS: For in this, he will not lack motivation in crediting himself, for the type of motivation that he generates is one that can be moved from being better in certain avenues to measure up to other individuals, that can be altered into being better, in your terms, for he is allowing himself to explore more of his own abilities. That is a natural motivation, to expand and to excel. But that is not to be credited to other individuals and not to be incorporated as a comparison, which discounts himself.

ANNE: Yeah.

ELIAS: But more as an allowance of a natural motivation to be expanding, to be discovering more of what he can do, to be generating more of his abilities or enhancing his abilities. In that, the credit belongs to him, and it allows him to excel without pressure.

ANNE: Mm-hm. Got it.

ELIAS: For without the comparing, that dismisses the pressure.

ANNE: Yeah. I’m listening to everything you’re saying, and it’s applying to me as well.

ELIAS: There is a difference between and striving. Striving is work, and generally it involves comparing. You can naturally excel without striving.

ANNE: Yeah. That’s true. Hm. A lot to think about. Mm. (Elias chuckles) That’s really good, for me as well. I need to hear this. It’s always good. Thank you.

ELIAS: You are welcome.

ANNE: Well, let’s get on to… I don’t know. I want to get on to a little bit more of that, but not… Quickly, let’s see. He’s written down, “Is Ann judging me?” (Laughs) He feels I always judge him. I’ve tried to explain to him that I don’t judge him half as much as he thinks I do, and he doesn’t believe me. So I said to him, “Well, why don’t you just ask Elias and he’ll give you a little bit more truth to that then, because I’m telling you, I don’t judge you half as much as you think I do.” And some of these things that he thinks I judge him on I find incredible. Like his drinking, for example. For the most part, I really don’t care. But he doesn’t believe me. So that’s a question for him.

ELIAS: I would express a validation and an agreement with your assessment, and I would express that many times when he is expressing that you are generating a judgment, HE is generating defense within himself. And in that defense, he translates what you are doing through that filter. Therefore, he reconfigures what you are doing in relation to his own defense. If he is allowing himself to be comfortable with himself and his own actions, regardless of what they are, and not defending or justifying what he is doing or who he is, he will allow himself to experience your interaction with him more clearly and more accurately, rather than generating this filter of defensiveness.

Defense can convolute an individual’s perception, for it is a very strong discounting of self and it creates a strong shield. And when an individual is shielding, it is very difficult for them to receive. And when you are not receiving, your input becomes convoluted.

ANNE: Yeah. There are times when I sometimes do sense that. It’s a funny sort of thing that happens. There’s some times that I do sense that I need to kick up a fuss about something. But at the same time, I’ll also sense… I don’t know. It’s like a feeling of well, I’m not happy with this, what he’s doing, because I feel that the intention that he’s doing whatever action it is with is not in his best interest.

ELIAS: Ah! Now—

ANNE: So, that’s usually when I start kicking up a fuss, so—

ELIAS: Now, THAT is another subject (Ann laughs), for that is not your responsibility.

ANNE: No. I know that. I know.

ELIAS: And that IS a judgment.

ANNE: Yes. I know. I know. I know. It’s just that sometimes I feel it’s… that act, it’s just… Well, I know.

ELIAS: There are different manners in which you can approach these types of situations, for I am understanding that this is quite natural for most individuals, especially if they are involved with other individuals in close relationships. You automatically will see potentials in the other individual, and you will automatically view some of the actions or choices of the other individual as perhaps not being in their best interest, as you have expressed.

But it is not helpful, it is not supportive to be instructing of the other individual. You can express your caringness in relation to the other individual, and you can share with the other individual in a manner that may offer a suggestion without an expectation. And you can express your caringness, but moving in the direction of instructing with the other individual creates conflict.

ANNE: Yes. I’m aware. (Laughs)

ELIAS: For that will not be received. And—

ANNE: It’s pointless in even having the discussion. Yeah.

ELIAS: And it encourages defense.

ANNE: Yeah. Okay. Okay, so I’ll change my approach to it all. (Elias laughs) Well, you know I’ve got to say, with all this changing of my approaches I sometimes… I have to say personally, I’m feeling a little bit sort of like I’m kind of changing a little bit my personality in a way. And I don’t know about that. (Laughs) I mean, I quite like certain aspects of myself, in terms of my spontaneity. It’s like, for example, in that type of scenario where I suddenly sense that "oh my god, there’s something not quite right here," and then I blurt something out. (Elias chuckles) That’s kind of the way I’ve always done it. But when I have to stop and reconsider my approach, it kind of takes the fire out of me a little bit. And I don’t know about that.

ELIAS: I would express to you, my friend, it is not a matter of dousing your own fire. It is more an action of channeling that fire in different directions, allowing yourself that spontaneity, allowing yourself that freedom and allowing yourself to express your flame in your passion, but not in relation to another individual’s expense.

ANNE: Mm-hm. Okay. But I mean, most of the time when I do have these conflicts… Well, okay, fine, I have conflicts within myself, but that’s a different matter. But when sometimes when I have conflicts with other people, a lot of it is down to my spontaneity, actually, in blurting something out or having a lot of difficulty in trying to hold it all in. That’s another thing.

ELIAS: I am understanding. And, as I expressed, it is not a matter of holding it in; it is a matter of re-evaluating and channeling your passion and your fire in other directions rather than in the direction that is familiar to you that creates conflict – unless you WANT to create the conflict.

ANNE: (Laughs) Well, sometimes I do. (Laughs) Because I just… It’s… I’m starting to realize… Not that I want conflict like 80% of the time; ust once in a blue moon these days would be okay. Because especially these days, it’s been very quiet suddenly and I’m finding myself a bit bored.

ELIAS: And that—

ANNE: I don’t want to create conflict, mind you, because I also think that maybe my passion can go in a very exciting direction where it feeds back to me something.

ELIAS: Yes, and that would be the point. What is the difficulty is that you have expressed in a particular manner for most of your focus, and therefore it is very familiar and it is very automatic. That is not necessarily the defining actions of your personality; it is merely the manner in which you are familiar with expressing yourself.

But you can express that passion that you incorporate in different manners that will satisfy that want for occasional intensity and will allow you to release energy but also draw, with your magnet (chuckles), energy that may be more in keeping with your preferences rather than merely what is familiar.

ANNE: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been thinking a lot about that these days. So, I’ll think about that a little more now I can express it.

ELIAS: Allow yourself to engage actions that generate excitement and that will allow you to express your passion and that will offer you avenues in which you can generate intensity, not be bored, not be anxious, not be agitated. And therefore, it will allow you to interact with other individuals in a more effective manner.

ANNE: Okay. Okay. Question about, because I’m curious about Patrick’s intent. And I think it has something to do with difference, or maybe it actually has something to do with sameness, similarity. Am I on the right track?

ELIAS: With both. Yes.

ANNE: Hm. Because I’ve noticed a lot that he enjoys… Although he is very similar to a lot of people, he actually enjoys what I call is walking the fence (Elias chuckles) between difference and being the same. And so he surrounds himself a lot by people who are quite different to him, and he gets a lot of joy out of that. But at the same time he sort of connects with people who are also the same, in a way.

ELIAS: Yes. Yes. (Laughs)

ANNE: How would you sum it up?

ELIAS: The exploration of how to combine differences and similarities.

ANNE: Very interesting. Oh, I was pretty good. I’m pretty fucking good. (Elias laughs) Thank you. That’s really cool. I can so clearly see that. It’s like crystal clear to me.

My back has been… I woke up this morning with the best back I’ve had in years, and it had something to do with the transcript that I read last night that was talking about allowance, just allow yourself to be. Is that the reason that my back is as good as it is today?

ELIAS: Yes. For it is an alteration of perception in which you are FINALLY (Ann laughs) allowing yourself permission to BE you.

ANNE: Well, it was a long time coming. (Both laugh)

ELIAS: I express to you my sincere congratulations.

ANNE: Thank you.

ELIAS: This is a significant accomplishment.

ANNE: It felt very good. It is amazing. It was like… I can’t believe my back is as good as it is. (Elias laughs) I also thought that maybe it has the perception involved of my perception of myself. There was that dream that I had had that you had mentioned a long time ago –it wasn’t that long ago—where you suggested that the reason my back was as it was was because I couldn’t perceive myself as others perceived me. And so it got me thinking yesterday, "Gosh, how do others perceive me?" Which kind of gets me onto the Daniel track of how he perceives me versus how I perceive myself. And yeah, maybe I am lining it all up more clearly. Is that the case?

ELIAS: Yes. And I would also express to you in relation to perception, every other individual will perceive you somewhat differently from how you perceive yourself. At times other individuals may perceive you in a more positive manner than you do yourself; at times they may perceive you in a more negative manner than you do yourself. What is significant in these differences of perception is to remind yourself and reinforce yourself that although other individuals may incorporate a different perception of you than you do of yourself, it does not diminish or invalidate your perception of you. And—remind yourself that other individuals incorporate fondness and friendship with you.

ANNE: Mm-hm. Because I think everybody hates me. (Laughs)

ELIAS: But they do not.

ANNE: Right. (Laughs) Not everybody, but a lot of people. (Laughs) Okay. Well, I do think that I somehow manage to get on the wrong side of people sometimes or something. It’s very easy to do that. (Sighs) Okay.

ELIAS: But this is what we have been discussing. And in that, it is in actuality, my friend, merely a matter of allowing yourself to genuinely channel your own energy, your own passion, which is a natural expression for you, in directions that excite you rather than in bursts that create the potentials for conflict.

ANNE: Okay.

A quick question about Denmark at the moment. There was a time in Denmark the sale of the flat fell through – or rather it went to a point where I just felt no, I don’t want to pay that, and so I didn’t. But after that, confusion ensued, and I was like, "Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why?" and "What’s going on? What should I do?" And all of that. And there was a feeling in me of “Don’t do it because it’s not the right time,” or “It’s not exactly what you want right now, so don’t do it, ” so I didn’t do it. But there was a lot of confusion after that because a part of me DID want it. And I was just not very clear at all about what really I was trying to communicate to myself. Is there something that I missed in all of that? Or…?

ELIAS: I would express to you first of all, you know more than you think you know, and you incorporate more information than you think you do. And in this, once again, it is another example of crediting yourself with what you know, as in this example.

You were expressing a communication to yourself through your intuition. You knew what the communication was. You followed that communication, but then you questioned yourself, for you are not crediting yourself with what you know.

ANNE: Okay. Okay. And I’d had a dream about that thing, and I just thought "No, I don’t want to get involved. This dream did reinforce that." Okay. So, I’ll stop… Oh, yeah. Okay. I hear what you’re saying.

ELIAS: The confusion arises when you begin to question yourself and you are not crediting yourself with what you know.

ANNE: Okay. Okay. Am I a dispersed essence?


ANNE: Why do I always easily tap into everybody around me? Especially through dreams, I would say.

ELIAS: That is associated with your empathic sense.

ANNE: Ah! Wow, I have a highly developed empathic sense then.

ELIAS: (Laughs) I would agree.

ANNE: (Laughs) Okay, cool! It’s amazing how I am able to read energy through dreams. I love it. (Elias laughs) It’s very precise, clear stuff.

And there was one last thing about… was it Denmark? Oh yes. The book. As I write the… well, it’s turning into a techniques book. As I’m writing that book, a lot of different ideas keep coming through, and I’m having a bit of difficulty with trying to focus the tone or the theme of the thread that goes through it. And I’ve kept my sense of humor every time I write. I like that about this book, but I can’t seem to settle on a particular theme. Now should I just write this out and let the theme eventually pop up that makes itself very clear?


ANNE: Okay. Just keep writing and…


ANNE: Because I’ve noticed that the way that I seem to do things is I do them, and as I do the activity the ideas pop up. But they won’t pop up unless I do it.

ELIAS: I am understanding. And I would be encouraging you to continue in this method and in this direction, and you will discover your theme.

ANNE: Okay. And "Sayonara," I just want to quickly tell you that "Sayonara" has turned into a wonderful book, my other one that I was editing and that I’m still editing, in a way. And I used your technique, the technique that you had suggested, which was pretend that I’m not the person that I am.

ELIAS: Yes. (Laughs)

ANNE: That was funny. But anyway, it didn’t even take much effort at all, because as soon as I just thought about it—I didn’t even have to think too much, in fact (Elias laughs)—it was automatic. And the next thing I know, I’m reading through a chapter, and "Wow, it’s sounding really fantastic." So that’s a movement of perceptions again.


ANNE: Wow.

ELIAS: Congratulations

ANNE: That’s interesting. It’s amazing.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Congratulations.

ANNE: (Laughs) Thank you. (Elias chuckles)

My birthday is tomorrow.

ELIAS: And I will express to you happiness for your birthday.

ANNE: Thank you. (Elias chuckles) Anything else? Any final words?

ELIAS: An acknowledgment of your accomplishments.

ANNE: Thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome. And very deserving. (Chuckles)

ANNE: Thank you. Thank you very much.

ELIAS: I express tremendous—

ANNE: (Sighs) Okay, that’s it then, I suppose for the moment.

ELIAS: I express tremendous appreciation—

ANNE: I’ll see you in Vienna.

ELIAS: Ah! Very well. And I shall be anticipating of that meeting.

ANNE: Okay. Okay. Is there anything else? Is there anything else? (Elias chuckles) Nothing’s popping up, so I think that’s clear.

ELIAS: Very well.

ANNE: Okay. Thank you very much again.

ELIAS: You are welcome, and I express tremendous lovingness to you, my dear friend. In great fondness and in dear friendship, au revoir.

ANNE: Bye-bye.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 4 minutes)