Session 1412

“True versus Real”

Sunday, August 10, 2003 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Marta (Bourjn)

Elias arrives at 9:37 AM. (Arrival time is 16 seconds.)

ELIAS: Good day!

MARTA: Hello, Elias! How are you? Like always? (Elias laughs) You remember me?


MARTA: Okay, then! I’m so glad I’m talking to you all over again! I have a lot of material since we talked the last time. I have many interesting things happening, a lot of impressions and some experiences, too. Okay?

ELIAS: Very well!

MARTA: Now, first, I would like the verification of my impressions of my other focuses. All the majority I get in meditation and altered state. Let’s go with the first one. I got Jan Van Eyck in Flanders, 1400, a Flemish painter.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Second one, I got the last name, Sinclair, and he’s in Scotland about 1200. I think he was like a noble or something like that. I saw him dressed as a knight.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: I’m not sure about the first name.

ELIAS: And you may continue your investigation. Ha ha ha!

MARTA: Third one, Hanna Schmidt, she was married to Franz Schmidt at the end of the 1800s, and I think it was in Germany.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Kamala, India 2000 BC, she was a priestess and a religious dancer.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Next one, Madeline Du Bal or Duvall, in France during the French Revolution, and she was connected to Elias Bodreaux.

ELIAS: Correct!

MARTA: Oh, good. What kind of relation did we have?

ELIAS: Siblings.

MARTA: Oh, great! I saw her running inside a church and she was scared, trying to hide. This is how I got the impression.

All my life, Elias, I’ve been fighting maybe with ancient Egypt. I had something happen to me when I was about 12 or 13 years old that still I remember how much I was affected. I saw a picture of a sculpture and it was just a bust, the face of Tutankhamen. For some reason I was extremely afraid when I saw that, to the point I never saw this picture again in my entire life, and still I remember it in my head, it’s in my memory. Then I didn’t even know who Tutankhamen was. Now, is Tutankhamen a focus of my essence?

ELIAS: No. You do incorporate a focus in that time framework which was involved in the process of the mummification.

MARTA: Ah, then it was a kind of connection. I will try to find this other one. I feel that I have several focuses during this time. I’m correct?


MARTA: Let’s tell you the impressions that I got. The first one is Ramses II, and I got the name Nuhu-net.

ELIAS: You are correct, although let me express to you that this is associated with a concubine.

MARTA: It was none of those that was the queen, married with him.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: The other one, I got an impression of the name Ankharamet. I believe it was 600 BC, but then I got 1000 BC. I’m not sure about the time. He was a kind of builder or architect.

ELIAS: Your first impression is correct.

MARTA: Six hundred?


MARTA: Something happens with me when I’m in this state of focus on focuses. I get one impression very clear — I see my focus, I get all the information — but then after, I get more information about another focus that is maybe related or something, but is from another time. I get many of those, like having two impressions in the same meditation. When I got Ankharamet, in the same time after that I got another impression that they were the same, but the naming was strange. I didn’t know what it really was. But in my research, I found that Giovanni Belzoni was an Italian explorer and archeologist, and that he was the first one who entered the Pyramid of Giza. Is Belzoni also a focus of myself?


MARTA: Oh, this is incredible! I tried to explore my focus in Russia during Catherine the Great in the 1700s. I got the name of a nobleman, Vladimir Pushkov, and that he was homosexual and very narcissistic, very colorful.

ELIAS: (Laughs) Correct.

MARTA: I feel I have more focuses in Russia.


MARTA: The next one I got is Wang Yang Ming, during the Ming Dynasty in the late 15th century, and he was a philosopher.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Like always, I get this crossing of another focus I don’t know. At the end of the meditation, I got a name Wan Li, and I didn’t know about Wan Li, I have no idea. Wan Li was the emperor of the Ming Dynasty, but at the end of the 1600s. What is that?

ELIAS: No, your impression as to the name is correct in relation to another focus, but not that individual of the emperor.

MARTA: Only the philosopher is my focus, but not Wan Li?

ELIAS: Yes, you do incorporate a focus with that physical name, but not the emperor.

MARTA: Next one, Rebecca Meyers, a Jewish girl that dies in Auschwitz when she was about seven years old in 1943.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Look what happened with this one. When I got this impression, after that immediately I got the name Goebbels. It was so strong and I felt a strong connection with Goebbels. I knew he wasn’t my essence but I still felt a strong connection. I have no idea why. Later I got information that there was Magda, his wife, the focus of my essence.

ELIAS: Observing essence.

MARTA: Observing essence of his wife?


MARTA: Next one, (inaudible) Hellmudt, at the end of the 1700s, beginning 1800s. I felt that he was very sensitive, that he liked to write poetry, and he was in Austria, Vienna. I got the impression that he suffered during Napoleon’s invasion into Austria.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: This was very incredible how this one came. Heracleitus, 1400 BC, in Greece, and he was born in what is now Turkey. He’s a philosopher.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Now I tried to connect with focuses with Elias. And these have been very, very hard! How many focuses do I have with you?

ELIAS: Fourteen.

MARTA: I knew it! I knew it, and I have a lot of work. I got four impressions. This is when I got that we have a very passionate intimate relationship. We were Gypsies, my name was Ismelda, and yours, they call you Razik. It wasn’t your name, but that’s what they called you. I think the time was like the end of the 1600s.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: But the location, I’m not sure. The location I found between Hungary and Romania, but I’m not sure which one of those.

ELIAS: Romania.

MARTA: Okay, next one. I got an impression that we were both actors involved in plays, both males. It was in England, I think in the 1500s.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: I got that my name was Edward, and I have an impression about you. Are you Shakespeare?


MARTA: I knew it. Is my focus Edward Alleyn?

ELIAS: Yes. Let me express to you, this is not actually a directing focus of my essence. This is an observing essence throughout the entirety of the focus.

MARTA: I tried to explore the focus in Spain. I have so much trouble with this one because I think I was putting too much stress and then I couldn’t really relax. Always I got a name, Maria — Mary or Maria. So okay, I just lay down and I try a second time. The second time I got an impression in which I saw you as an opera singer. Were you a musician living in Spain?

ELIAS: Yes, but not of tremendous notoriety.

MARTA: But you were born in Spain and you were a singer?

ELIAS: Yes, but did not incorporate tremendous fame in that focus.

MARTA: I have to look more into that. I saw you as an opera singer, but I couldn’t get anything more. I got only the name, Maria. Maybe my naming was Maria, my focus.


MARTA: But I need to find more. The next one I got an impression that we both were brothers, and we fought for a woman and you killed me.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: It was in Italy?

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: I don’t have the names. Could you give me at least the time period, because I don’t have that.

ELIAS: Time framework, 1600s.

MARTA: When I try to connect with the focus in Spain, like I told you, I got the name Maria but nothing else. But then, I think in the same meditation, one thing kept coming to me after a while, and I didn’t know why. Later on I was talking to Carter/Cynthia and he said that he has an impression of one of my focuses as his mother, and he mentioned his focus as a son of Oscar Wilde. This was Cynthia’s impression of me. I try to explore, but what I got was the name Emily, and I have no idea who was Emily. Later on in my research, I found that Emily was a sister of Oscar Wilde who died when she was ten years old.

ELIAS: This is an observing essence role also.

MARTA: Was his wife the focus of my essence?


MARTA: All those previous impressions were before I knew about chapter focuses. My essence is participating in the Shift book?


MARTA: Then I’m participating in all of the chapters?


MARTA: When I knew about this, then intentionally I tried to connect. Look what I got. My first impression was in Egypt. I got Imhotep, 2600 BC, a priest and he was an architect. (Pause)

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: It was very interesting, this one. At the end of my impression of this one, of Imhotep, I got the name Heres, and I never heard the name Heres in my life. I have no idea who was Heres. Then I found the mother of Cheops was Hetep-Heres.

ELIAS: Observing essence.

MARTA: The next one I tried to connect to was in Scotland. The first one I got, my focus name is Loner or Lonar, and he was a sorcerer living in the woods.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Then I got an impression of another name, Talus, another sorcerer in the same time who was connected with me. In my impression, I got that he was a focus of my daughter, Mary. (Pause)

ELIAS: This would also be an observing essence role.

MARTA: Mary as an observing essence of Talus?


MARTA: And I got that this was 12th or 13th century.


MARTA: The second impression I got was the name Penelope. She was a kind of a witch and worked with the power of nature and the moon during the night. That one was 10th or 11th century, and I got the impression that she came from Normandy.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Good. Now, next one. I was in my meditation and I got a name, Agrippina. I think my focus is Agrippina the Elder.

ELIAS: Observing essence.

MARTA: Okay, another impression — Apollonius, the Greek philosopher in the first century.

ELIAS: Observing essence for partial focus and counterpart action.

MARTA: Next impression. In this one, I saw a young woman in a window in a Renaissance building. I got the time, 1400, and the location Florence, and then I got the name Donatella. After that, I got the name Medici. But then also I got the name Salvestro that has a very passionate relation with her, I got this all in my impression. I haven’t been able to make sense of that, I don’t know if it’s Donatella de Medici or Salvestro de Medici. I don’t know. It’s a little confusing for me. What I know is it was in Florence, Renaissance, 1400, and I got a name Donatella.

ELIAS: Correct, but what you are allowing in connecting to is yourself and other individuals. Not that you are all of these focuses, but that you are one of these focuses and there are other focuses that are close to you in that manifestation.

MARTA: My focus is Donatella, correct?


MARTA: Salvestro is another essence that I have connection with now?


MARTA: The next one, Elias, Ulka, a horse warrior in Mongolia, 5th century.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: I saw a future focus of mine. His name is Rhodas and he was in the city 2095. he’s an architect employed in the design of the library and the museum.

ELIAS: 2195, You are correct.

MARTA: Next one, Elias, Wilhelmina of Prussia in the Netherlands in the 1700s, beginning 1800s. She was married to King Willem the First of the Netherlands.

ELIAS: Observing essence.

MARTA: Benahima Sadhima in Bangladesh in the beginning of the 20th century, very poor woman, she was a farmer and she had about ten children.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: For days, Elias, I have this name coming to me, and it was like Nadine, Nadina. I had this name all the time in my mind. Later when I was in my meditation, I got Nadima, the wife of King Menas of Mesopotamia in ancient Sumeria time, 4200 BC.

ELIAS: Observing essence.

MARTA: Next one, Elias: Carlos Salvador Matias, a fisherman who lives in the south part of Chile, Patagonia, in the 1940s, in the city of Puerto Natales.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Roland Villemond, Catholic monk, France, 1300. (Pause)

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: I saw this old woman all dressed in black and she was looking to the sea. I got the name Alannah McNamara, an Irish woman who became widowed very young. I felt that she lost her husband in the sea in the 1930s or 1940s. She was living in the south part of England, in Sussex.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Roald Amundsen, Norwegian explorer to Antarctica, at the end of the 1800s.

ELIAS: Observing essence.

MARTA: This one was the most impressive of all my impressions, because it’s amazing: Margaret Scott. My impression is time focus right now, living in Australia, and she’s a poet and a writer. I saw her face like a photo picture, and I found her.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: That was the most impressive. Another one, I saw a man that looked middle-eastern. I got the name Al Ahmed Hiram, 14th century, and he was a Sufi. But I also got an impression he had no specific profession or staying in a specific location. He was having to move.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Now, another one, very strange. For days and days, I had a sudden impression that just popped in my mind. It was two names, Amatuba and Sumika, but nothing else. When I tried to meditate, I got this impression suddenly. Amatuba, a focus of my essence, but manifested 35,000 BC. When I got this, I thought this is not right. I got that it was a land located northeast of New Zealand that sunk by volcanic activity. I got a name Kunutia as the name this land. Then I got that I was the chief of the people, and that Sumika was my partner and is a focus of Carter/Cynthia.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Before our first session, I have an impression that was a name, Thor, but I didn’t ask because nothing else came. Now, later on, I got this impression. I saw a man dressed with a white tunic and I felt that he had a lot of power, and then the name Thor came to me. The only Thor I know is in Norse mythology.

ELIAS: This is an other-dimensional focus, in association with your mythology.

MARTA: Then is he related to the mythological god of thunder?

ELIAS: Yes, but it is another dimension.

MARTA: Jose Figueiras of Brazil, 1900. He was involved in the construction of Brasilia City and was a personal friend of the architect Oscar Niemayer.

ELIAS: Observing essence.

MARTA: Now, about my musical focuses, this is another one that is very hard for me, Elias. I think my knowledge and my preference in the subject, it’s hard for me to think that they are not getting in the way. How many focuses do I have as a musician?

ELIAS: And you impression?

MARTA: I think I have about four or five.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: I had an impression also that in one I was a famous pianist.


MARTA: Now, my question is, Frederic Chopin?


MARTA: This is just an impression, okay? Johann Sibelius, the composer in Vienna.


MARTA: I’m telling you, this isn’t working, because I haven’t connected. I have to work a little bit more. But I have a focus as a famous pianist?


MARTA: It was a woman?


MARTA: Now, this is another thing. I have an impression as an observing essence in Franz Liszt.


MARTA: I had an impression about a focus when I became aware of some focuses among the group, and I didn’t even connect. There was one that immediately I felt. It was a very strong impression, and it was Ludovica, princess of Bavaria, who married Maximilian Joseph.

ELIAS: Observing essence throughout the entirety of the focus.

MARTA: I have also impression of observing essence in Edward Degas.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: And also in Krishnamurti.

ELIAS: Observing essence, yes.

MARTA: Also in David Bohm, the American theoretical physicist.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Now, I was thinking, I saw the face of an ancient Indian American and I got a name, the word “eagle” followed by the word “white.” But then also I got the word “gray,” and I got very confused. Then I found White Eagle was the chief and shaman of the Pawnee tribe that was massacred by the Sioux. Gray Eagle was the brother-in-law of Sitting Bull. I think one is a focus of my essence and the other one is my observing essence.

ELIAS: You are correct with the observing essence.

MARTA: In both cases or only one?

ELIAS: Both are observing essences.

MARTA: I have also an impression that I hold a focus as an Anasazi woman and the name came to me was Tanihua.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: The time of this one, my impression was like 11th century, something like that.


MARTA: I got a man Maurice, I believe the last name is Duttoit, in France, 1100, and he was fighting the English. He died fighting the English.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: How many future focuses do I have?

ELIAS: And your impression?

MARTA: Oh, about 12.

ELIAS: Fifteen.

MARTA: In chronological time, which year would be my last one?

ELIAS: Twenty-eighth century.

MARTA: I know in my present time I have five focuses of my essence. I got my impression it was France, Australia, which already I connected with, Mexico, England and Tibet.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Elias, I’m in transition?


MARTA: Has my essence a Dream Walker aspect?


MARTA: Just a question, I got a name of Osiris.

ELIAS: In association with what?

MARTA: I don’t know, this is what I’m saying. Always when I’m meditating I get a name, Oseres. This is my question, why I’m getting all the time Oseres?

ELIAS: That is another focus.

MARTA: Any help in that, where I can locate this focus?

ELIAS: I may acknowledge that you are accomplishing quite well in your impressions. Therefore, I shall encourage you to continue.

MARTA: Oh, no help at all! My goodness. Okay, I have to go by myself. I know my essence fragmented from Oule and Diskus. Are those essences physically manifested?


MARTA: In linear time reference, in what time framework the essence Bourjn fragmented?

ELIAS: Approximately within the mid-12th century.

MARTA: This is not my beginning focus?


MARTA: My beginning focus is another one, because I think I got an impression I have my beginning focus in Venice, Italy during the 16th century. I got a name Ruperto Bellini. He was called Rupeccio or Peccio. He was a sailor in a merchant ship. I got an impression that his alignment is Ilda.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: This is my beginning focus?


MARTA: I want to jump to a very important question. I really need to discuss something because I need more understanding.

ELIAS: Very well.

MARTA: I’ve been very much in tune with a new wave in consciousness that we have about truth.

ELIAS: Very well.

MARTA: I can see a difference between the word — we’re a little getting into semantics — but I feel a difference between true and real. Truth for me, I know how you tell it and I can understand perfectly, truths are those aspects that hold for all dimensions, physical and nonphysical, and all areas of consciousness, and are like aspects of consciousness. Like color, love, vibration, energy, awareness — all those are truths.

ELIAS: Correct. But this is not the wave that is occurring. It is not addressing to actual truths. It is addressing to the BELIEF SYSTEM of truth.

MARTA: Now, this is my point. This is where I’m going. There is what I call true or real. I remember that in one of the transcripts that you mentioned that we always know, like an inner knowing, when something is true or not. I agree with that, because in a way always I feel that in myself. I can’t explain it but always inside of me I can define something is true or it is not.

My question has to do with about one year ago I met this brujo and through him I learned how to project or direct my attention to other areas of consciousness. He teaches it is through imagination and intent, and it’s quite effective. Now, he has a website in which many people put all their different experiences. I have read some of those experiences that for me, this inner knowing, I don’t see it as true. One example is in one of those processes a person said that she was flying on top of a witch and she saw thousands and thousands of souls trapping dragons, who didn’t know that they had disengaged. Then she from the sky sends love, and all those souls start flying up, flying up, flying up, and they were liberated. Now, I can’t judge the experience of another person, but for me this isn’t true.

ELIAS: Let me express to you, I am understanding of your confusion, but remember that individuals may be expressing a translation of an experience that they actually incorporate, but their translation is filtered through their beliefs and also what is known to them in physical expressions and manifestations.

MARTA: And those are beliefs.

ELIAS: Yes, which I have stated.

MARTA: Exactly. This is my point, because I feel for this person who has an experience, for this person it was quite real.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: She interpreted that and for her it was quite real.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: But it doesn’t mean it’s a correct translation of a true dream. I don’t know how to express that. My second point is, for example, I know that there are infinite dimensions, physical, nonphysical, and infinite areas of consciousness.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: And those dimensions, they have a reality independent of my perception or beliefs.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Now, if I project to one of those realities or areas of consciousness, I will interpret it, and I will perceive through my beliefs and it will be an interpretation, a translation.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: But this has nothing to do with the reality of this other dimension, which is independent of my projection.

ELIAS: In a manner of speaking.

MARTA: This is my point. I can interpret, but the reality is independent of my perception, in a manner of speaking.


MARTA: For example, if I’m in Regional Area 3, let’s say I’m a person who had disengaged, or myself projecting over there. I can experience something that will be quite real, but it will be a projection of my beliefs. I can project something and then I will experience this and it will be quite real. I see that it will be a reality that I only perceive.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: But it won’t be a reality independent of my perception.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: This is what I see that I call the word true, that for me, a reality independent of my perception, I call this true. Perhaps what I’m calling a reality, that is a projection of my beliefs and that is only a reality for me, then I call this like personal truth or a personal reality, or some people they call it fantasy or illusion. But I don’t want to use that word because maybe it is not a right word, because maybe nothing is an illusion or a fantasy, or maybe everything is.

The way I see it is there are realities and they are quite real, but they are a projection and they are only perceived by one individual. If they are reality, they are perceived as a consensus by many individuals and create consensus reality. It would be accurate, my interpretation?

ELIAS: Partially, not entirely.

MARTA: Can you enlighten me a little bit more in that?

ELIAS: What you are generating in this assessment and this particular philosophy is partially accurate or somewhat accurate within your interpretation, but it is also somewhat bordering upon dangerous, for you in actuality are setting forth a type of association that generates more of a separation and also reinforces, although I may say to you it may appear to be quite subtle, but nonetheless, is reinforcing judgments.

MARTA: Yes, and this has been a problem for me because I’m realizing that I have been judging something. But in the same time, how can I deny how I perceive something?

ELIAS: This is the point of this wave in consciousness addressing to the belief system of truth, which addresses to individual truths which are in actuality your most strongly expressed beliefs, and how they influence your perception and therefore what you generate in your reality in association with your perception, for that is what creates your reality. You are quite correct that that is quite real, and in this, each individual generates their own individual truths, those beliefs that they do not question.

Even in what you are presenting to myself in this conversation presently, you are expressing one of your own truths, that there are some expressions or some perceptions that ring true to you and therefore are viewed as more real. Although theoretically and conceptually you express to yourself intellectually that you incorporate an understanding that you are not discounting the reality of another individual’s experience, but it may be less true than some other experience, which is incorrect. For ALL of you interpret through your beliefs, and there is no official reality which is outside of the reality that you generate through your perception. There is no other separate reality which is the real reality that you are striving to move into, which is beyond the affectingness of your beliefs or your perception.

Now; you are also correct in association with projecting to other areas of consciousness or other physical dimensions. You incorporate an objective perception in this physical manifestation. Therefore, in association with the design and your participation in this physical dimension, you shall generate an interpretation and a translation of your experience in association with other dimensions or other areas of consciousness. You are correct that that is quite real but it may be different from what the actual expression is in these other areas of consciousness or other physical dimensions.

Therefore, your identification that they are independent of your perception is somewhat correct. Not entirely but somewhat, for they are also areas of consciousness that you occupy or that you incorporate focuses of your essence within. Therefore, you are generating an experience which is connected with...

MARTA: Yes, you are right. I understand.

ELIAS: Therefore, it is both.

MARTA: What I want, Elias, is to understand, and now I see that the danger is in the word “true.” That we have tendency to challenge, like when you say, “This is true; this is not true.”

ELIAS: Correct. Which is quite similar, my friend, to the term “belief.” For there is an automatic association that is generated that a belief is some expression that you believe or you do not believe, and this is also not correct. It matters not whether you think you believe certain expressions; they may be expressed beliefs, regardless. That is merely a matter of whether you agree with what you incorporate as an expressed belief or not.

But in this, this is the reason that I have been engaging conversation and offering information to all of you recently concerning this wave and concerning these truths, that you may more clearly understand that they may be what you identify as your individual truths. You may choose to continue to express them and incorporate them in many manners as you do now, but also recognize that they are not an absolute and they are not TRUE.

MARTA: Yes, exactly. It’s the same thing with all the beliefs that we hold. Already I’m recognizing my beliefs, and when I recognize it, I know I have those beliefs but also I’m aware that it’s just a belief.

ELIAS: But I may caution you in this, also. It is not “JUST a belief,” for it is a reality, and they are not eliminated. Therefore, do not discount beliefs or their role or their significance. They are not the enemy.

It is merely a matter of incorporating an objective awareness that is widened to the point that you recognize that it is a matter of how you manipulate your energy in association with these beliefs and how you manipulate your focus in your choices, and therefore allowing yourself to intentionally manipulate the beliefs in relation to your wants. But knowing that regardless of whether you hold any particular belief as a truth or not, you also know objectively that that is unique to you. There may be other individuals that express similar truths, but not all individuals shall express similar truths.

This is your point of power in acceptance, knowing that you may continue to express your truths, recognizing that in some expressions of them you incorporate a preference and in some they may be somewhat limiting, also recognizing that they are unique to you and that other individuals may express different truths, but they are also not absolutes.

MARTA: Yes. You clarified for me a lot today, because now I know the danger of this word that we use so easily about truth. I understand better than I did before. I try!

I have also some very interesting experiences, and I want to cover maybe one or two. Does my essence hold a focus in Merluna?


MARTA: I felt this impression very strongly, because about three months ago I projected to another dimension that was so similar to Merluna, and then I read about Merluna and I said to Margot/Giselle, I was there. It was exactly the same thing. Then I got impression that I have a focus in Merluna and the name is Sornox.

ELIAS: Yes. In actuality, you incorporate several focuses.

MARTA: In Merluna?


MARTA: Oh, because I got two names. I got Sulux and Sornox.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Both are focus of my essence?


MARTA: In another, I have an impression also that I have focus in another physical dimension. I have an impression in one in which I think that the beings there, I don’t know how to express that, they are very thin and tall, they have a very elongated head, and they are very, very highly subjectively aware.


MARTA: I got the name Ork. Is Ork my focus?


MARTA: Another impression I got is also in a dimension in which I’m an aquatic being, something like a dolphin or something like that. It’s totally aquatic.

ELIAS: Yes. Actually, let me qualify in association with that dimension. Those manifestations may alter their form, for in translation into what you may associate with in this physical dimension, these beings are as the water itself and may alter their shape and form...

MARTA: Oh, no kidding! I thought they were aquatic beings, but I couldn’t relate more than that.

ELIAS: They are quite flexible at alteration of form in association with this liquid form that they incorporate.

MARTA: Oh, how interesting! I only knew that was aquatic, but I couldn’t get more than that. Liquid beings. And I have that focus over there?

ELIAS: Several, yes.

MARTA: I have a projection in which I went to a nonphysical area of consciousness, and what I perceived — it was my translation, of course — was I translated everything as spheres of bubbles of energy. I could see that those spheres had intelligence and self-awareness. They communicate by waves of sound. I perceived them expanding, merging, fragmenting, and whatever happened, the sound wave created different patterns, a new sound wave.

ELIAS: Interesting interpretation, but somewhat accurate. Yes.

MARTA: I went into another projection — I think this was a physical dimension — but what I interpreted, it was like colonies of beings. My interpretation, they seemed something between crystals and a mirror.

ELIAS: Yes, you are correct. They would be more associated with what you recognize as crystals.

MARTA: But I knew that they had self-awareness; they were intelligent. I got that there were many, many manifestations of this kind in this dimension, and what they experience is an interconnectedness.

ELIAS: Yes. Quite strongly.

MARTA: My other question is how I can distinguish between an impression that is a focus creation and an impression that relates to a focus created by my essence?

ELIAS: The difference between a focus that is one of your essence and another focus?

MARTA: And one that is a focus creation. I think you mentioned something like that in one of your transcripts.

ELIAS: A focus creation such as another aspect or a probable self?


ELIAS: A probable self shall be associated with you in this focus; therefore, although the experiences may be quite different, a focus creation, as you are terming this, a probable self shall incorporate the appearance quite similar to yourself. It shall be generated at a particular moment of some particular choice that is being engaged, which generates a probable self.


MARTA: And it’s possible to connect?

ELIAS: Quite possible, yes. This shall be recognized very similarly to yourself in appearance.

MARTA: Good. Now, this has to do with perception. I think you mentioned that perception is, if I understand this correctly, we have objective perception.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: When in the subjective, we don’t have perception?

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: Perception is only referring to objective.

ELIAS: Correct. Perception is associated with physical dimensions and the objective expression of those physical dimensions, if they incorporate an objective element.

Now; if there is actual physical manifestation in what you identify as matter, that incorporates an objective perception. Perception is an objective expression.

MARTA: I understand. But in a nonphysical area of consciousness it’s more subjective, then how is perception?

ELIAS: You do not incorporate perception in nonphysical areas of consciousness, for it is unnecessary. The point of perception is to generate physical manifestation.

MARTA: That I understood. Another thing I want to ask you is I think I have a dream trigger. Very often in my dreams I have an element that is always present, regardless of the rest of the imagery in my dreams. It’s quite strange. It’s always about my car, and the peculiar thing is it’s always about being unable to find my car.

ELIAS: Correct.

MARTA: And this is my dream trigger?


MARTA: If I know it’s my dream trigger, then when I’m dreaming how do I use this dream trigger?

ELIAS: Now; this is interesting, for your dream trigger is not an object. It is the absence of the object. In this, to incorporate what you term to be using your dream trigger as a portal, you must be aware of the time framework in which you are searching for the vehicle. In those moments, as you recognize that this is what you are doing, it is the moment that you move into to generate the portal.

MARTA: Then I’m aware of my dream trigger, but because the object is not in my dream, I have to first recognize that.

ELIAS: Correct, and to move into the moment of the expression of which you are searching for the vehicle. That is your trigger. It is that moment as you allow yourself to be aware and you stop and recognize: “Ah, I am searching for the vehicle; this is my dream trigger.” This is the moment.

MARTA: Now, I had an experience that was interesting. I was meditating and I tried to conceptualize the concept of essence. I had quite a very interesting experience that is very hard for me to translate in words. I felt myself expanding my awareness, expanding, expanding, like it covered eternity, infinite. I was able to feel or sense, to visualize like clouds, and I knew it was essence. But it was different, and they were merging with each other. They had different colors, but it was a color that is not a color. I can say a tone, but it wasn’t a tone. I saw rays like infinite strings of energy, pulsating. I saw strings, but it was not strings, it was energy. I can’t even put in words.

ELIAS: I am understanding. Let me express to you, for the most part, as you generate the action of your inner sense of conceptualization, it may be extremely challenging to attempt to explain or describe that experience in language, but the experience is quite real. I am understanding what you are expressing, and I shall validate and acknowledge that you have allowed yourself to actually generate this conceptualization in association with the subject of essence. What you generated was actually allowing yourself to incorporate this inner sense quite effectively, moving into the action of the concept.

MARTA: And I really did it?


MARTA: I remember having this incredible, magnificent experience, but I don’t know how to put it in words. When I was in this magnificent experience, I felt I was in connection with you and I was talking to you. I think you gave me some answers. Then, of course, my doubt came. “Oh, Marta, this is not Elias. This is you, yourself.” And then this incredible blue light explosion in front of me — ah! (Elias laughs) It was you?


MARTA: I felt that it was you validating me that I was really connecting with you.


MARTA: It was wonderful. Thank you!

ELIAS: You are quite welcome.

MARTA: I think already we run out of time, and I have much, much more questions in session with you. But Mary is going to say, “Marta, please, no more!” Thank you, Elias, so much. You really clarify me a lot.

ELIAS: I shall be anticipating our next meeting, my friend. Let me express to you, Bourjn, that I hold a great fondness for you and your enthusiasm. Ha ha!

MARTA: Thank you. And I’m really waiting to talk to you again, Elias. Thank you so much for everything. I love you dearly. Be with me all the time, please!

ELIAS: Very well, I shall!

MARTA: I feel you once in a while — I feel you, don’t worry. Thank you, Elias, thank you.

ELIAS: You are very welcome, my friend. In great encouragement as always, and playfulness, au revoir.

MARTA: Au revoir. Thank you!

Elias departs at 10:46 AM.